Pokemon Theory: Ash is a Fraud?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
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Ash is a Fraud? But how?
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thoughts on the badges part
badge 1- correct but i have no problem with pikachu's electricity taking out onix.... it was covered in water.... we dont' know how ground type anatomy works maybe that does make a difference. we've seen onix fall to meowth's fury swipes after having water dumped on him so maybe water severely weakens them 4x weakness is a bitch am i right?
badge 2- the gym's pokemon couldn't best team rocket but ash could..... he out did the gym leader that should count. also misty is one of the cerulian gym leaders she's just not respected
badge 3- fully agree
badge 4- did i mention i hate erica's sexist ass..... oh and fully agree
badge 5- fully agree
badge 6- fully agree
badge 7- fully agree
badge 8- when is it stated that a gym leader can't have a substitute? gyms like cerulian and wherever cilan lives beg to differ.... and it isn't ash's fault hte rockets cheated...
now for the ending part ash isn't a fraud he was prepared just not prepared enough... remember he did beat quite a few people in the league and he even outlasted gary
You forgot about Geodude though, he was not and Pikachu beat it with one thundershock.
ProtoMario Blame that on writing I'm not sure what they were thinking at the time but in a rebooted story Flint would've been teaching Pikachu Iron Tail as we have steel types now and Pikachu the Horn is Lighting Rod logic
ProtoMario ash was able to take out a rhydon by attacking it horn. some rhydon even have lightning rod. so many its an ability and a weakness?
Zephyr - P I have a theory that Lightning Rod is a take that to the anime but Pikachu gets it for it's special ability so make of that what you will
Even with the lightning rod argument ash still technically lost that match with blain.
I remember this one quote from Misty when Ash was bragging about having his first two badges:
"Ash, we GAVE you those badges because we felt sorry for you!"
yeah misty was wrong on that. Brock fair enough he was given the badge(he did technically win the fight but forfeited because he realized he wouldn't have won had the sprinklers not turned on) and he didn't want to win that way. While misty he had her beaten before TR interrupted
Sure she says that, but honestly Ash really did earn his badges, even if it's somewhat debatable, he was beating Misty before Team Rocket interrupted, and sure Ash kind of cheated with Brock by using the sprinkles to make Onix vulnerable to electricity, and you could probably argue that would disqualify him, but still, he would have won that battle if he hadn't had sympathy for Onix so I consider that a legit win. Also, in Misty's case her sisters were just gonna give him the badge, so it doesn't even really matter if he earned it or not, he probably would have gotten it even if he hadn't battled anybody. You can call Ash out for a lot of things, but I don't think his badges are really one of them
So proto you just told stories about teh kanto area. What about Johto and onwards. You really didn't make an effort on making this video.
Oh no, you are right I should have made this video 25 min long right?
ProtoMario Well you've gotta be fair even when the Best Wishes writers were using him as a whipping boy he still was able to earn all his badges in Sinnoh we see him rebuke even get mad at the idea of just getting a badge and demanded he get a battle for it Barry's the only one who liked the idea because in his mind Seven+one= Eight I get to go to the Sinnoh League
ProtoMario
Really no offense. But the fact you only mentioned the kanto makes you look like a huge genwunner.
Dragonchakala
Are you serious? You can't be with how many theories I've done.
ProtoMario Well you only looked over Kanto not Johto and the other seasons
Now the question is, where did Gary get the extra badges?
***** The Illuminati. /\
+Benny W Y'know how in gold and silver, you could go to kanto and fight the gym leaders there? I'm guessing he got a head start by defeating the first few gym leaders in Johto.
+Benny W Exactly..there must have been more gyms in all the series. Remember dark city? They just aren't that popular.
Orange Islands
In the anime, it was stated that there were more than 8 gyms. The game followed a linear path for game mechanics reasons, and the anime followed the game order so they didn't have to expand the world. Gary was an overachiever and went to all of them to test himself (he does have a car, he can travel faster than Ash can). It's easier to make some extra badges than extra gyms, leaders, and pokemon teams.
Gary (Blue/Green's original anime counterpart) is also a fraud by having "10 badges".
The other 2 are from another gyms from another Towns and Cities
Pokemon Theory: Barry(platinum) is Cynthia`s (platinum) younger brother?
Mind BLOWN
you need to be stopped. xD
Or Palmer is Cynthia'd ex
My mind is gone. Where it went I don't honestly know. All I know is that it was blown away. :O I think this means Palmer is Illuminati ლ(ﾟдﾟლ)
***** bruh older guys have their shit together. and he's a powerful trainer. in the pokemon world that must be sexy as hell. ***** and bianca is way too young to mother anyone especially possible 14 year old barry
I have to agree, Ash didn't earn all hus badges, though it is up to the leader what they want to do so I guess saving their gym or themselves (Sabrina) is deemed worthy of earning then I guess he did.
*his
Kirsty Foster I agree with you he is redeem worthy
I guess the logic behind it is to show that it's more important to care about your pokémon than to just win battles. And it's the bond between you and your pokémon that actually brings out the best in them. This has been a not-so-subtle message to the kids throughout the series. In my opinion, the Sinnoh region showed it at it's best...so maybe the gym leaders recognized Ash his deep care and bond with pokémon, which by the series logic is the sign of a true Pokémon master....Not a master as in a slave owner that just forces his creatures to win battles for him, but a master of the true meaning for battling in the first place: to grow stronger together and grow a stronger bond with one another. By that logic, Ash is a knight in shining armor. Because his bond with his pokémon defies the laws of type advantage and just common sense in battling xD
No, pokemon league rule stat:You must EARN badges, all ash did was blast some1 away, witch should mean that he doesent deserve the badge due to harming another human being (even if there evil, he has no right to pass judgement on jess&jamie)
But where is a textbook which defines what 'earning' means....if it's the gym leaders duty to give a badge to whoever has earned it, does it mean they get to decide what earning it is? Because they don't seem to follow a set of rules here xD
in the battle where he lost in the indigo league, wasn't a complete lost. his pokemon were already worn out by fighting team rocket to get to the stadium. am I right?
If we're talking the first series, I feel that he was a bit a fraud, along with some of Johto (in which he over relied on Charizard extremely throughout a lot of early episodes and such), but at the same time, this was back when Ash was completely and utterly stupid. He has come a long way since then, to where he is mature and passionate enough to want to EARN all of his Gym Badges now.
This is best seen when he refused to just take the free Beacon Badge that Volkner was offering at the Sunnyshore Gym, and even attempts get in by force to battle for it, and how he is constantly training and working hard to be ready for the next gym. And to top it all off, Ash is shown to have matured significantly in his understanding of Pokemon battles, and has come a long way since Kanto, now understanding how things are supposed to be done.
So in short, yes Ash was quite a bit of a fraud in the Kanto League (and could also be considered so in Johto, given his over-reliance on Charizard early on), but I think it can mostly be chalked up to being new to the ways of Pokemon battling, as well as being young and stupid.
But in Johto Ash uses Charizard only in the first and the last gym. Other than that he uses rest of his Pokémon
Ash did think ahead once near the end, when he had Muk ready to battle the grass Pokemon. This showed he learned something important about Pokemon while battling in the past.
But Proto Ash is a ten year old kid and he even pointed out that he hadn't beaten Brock before Brock gave him the Boulder Badge. Brock set a dangerous precedent in Ash's impressionable mind that this was okay, one that other Gym Leaders enforced/ Ash was acting on his new understanding if the rules that he gained from these incidents. After so much of this happened he had no that wasn't how it worked until Blaine called him out on it. The fault here lies with the Gym Leaders not Ash. Since Kanto Ash has earned every Badge and/or Frontier Symbol legitimately and refussed to just be given his eighth Sinnoh Badge. He is an Elite Four level Trainer and not a fraud.
Though I do want to argue Ash not being prepared for the Indigo League. He had to deal with trials no other Trainer did, namely Team Rocket every freaking day. He had plenty of experience under his belt an if it hadn't been for Team Rocket interference making half of his Team nigh unusable before his battle with Ritchie, forcing Ash to use a disobedient Charizard, (Possibly disobedient BECAUSE of the way Ash earned his Badges and it being essentially a traded Pokemon, which again is the fault of the Gym Leaders) Ash would've beaten Ritchie and made the Top 8 at the Indigo League at least out of 256 Trainers who all likely legitimately earned their Badges. Doing so with a team that of six that at any given time had no less than FOUR not fully evolved Pokemon THREE of which were in their first stage*. When you look at it like that Ash is a freaking battling prodigy, he may not have earned his Badges the usual way but he had the skill to be there no question.
*In Generation 1/The Indigo League saga that we are discussing Pikachu was considered first stage, That may not be the case now but in the context were given at the time, this statement was true, hence the footnote.
Maybe instead of Ash being a fraud, it is the Gym Leaders not following the rules of their job as Gym Leader?
You have an excellent point, Ash is in fact a fraud in the Indigo League, he didn't earn any more than 3 badges (I would say 4 and count Misty because he had that match won before Team Rocket showed up). In subsequent series I would say he did in fact successfully earn badges. I also was annoyed as a kid with the show defying game logic over and over again. Bottom line though, Red or Gold would crush Ash for free if it came down to it.
He earned 5 of his badges in the indigo league.
That last Bit aged worse than Milk
I don't t think Ash is exactly at fault for most of these. I think that the gym leaders are the ones to blame for being either lazy or incompetent. I mean, the Cerulean Gym Leaders had no Pokemon to start out with (which is just inexcusable). Brock's Pokemon can be beaten by Pikachu, even though they're supposed to be Ground types. Sabrina--as you said--lost to Ash by *laughing*...oyyyyyy. Overall, I don't think Ash is a fraud, he's just had the (mis)fortune of meeting some really bad gym leaders.
Good point.
I always thought that it was the gym leaders fault.
Ash does drugs everytime when the anime ends where they are travelling to another city/town. Right there when the credits start then Ash does it.
😂😂😂😂
I think Ash is just not fit to be a Pokemon trainer.
Why? Because EVERY FREAKING TIME he enters the League, he LOSES.
Mostly he makes it to the top 8, a couple time he only made top 16, and once he made it to the top 4.
But not even ONCE did he make it any farther than that.
xy is looking good tho i mean he has a pseudo legendary goodra
The Nintendo Nerd
Good he got one of the best dragon types from Kalos
The Nintendo Nerd its a goomy right now but yeah, if he's smart he may actually win if play it right. he does have a potential frogadier and talonflame.
The Nintendo Nerd I don't know about that. It pisses me off that pikachu loses to a surskit and gets completely destroyed by a lucario that is not completely in synch with his trainer but then manages to beat the same lucario in mega forme when he and his trainer progressed a lot. #bullcrap
But the Pokemon League from the anime just ain't as easy to beat as it is in the game... It's more like playing wifi battles. Even though you're a good trainer, if you want to battle other good trainers, eventually you'll lose... And there are always guys that you simply can't beat at all. Japanese anime creators tend to make their main characters grow so much that when they can't be more powerful, the anime ends. Pokemon is an exception.
Ash has and almost always will be Ass Ketchup.
duh
truth
Lol, you made me laugh irl!
hahahhahha Bajan Canadian reference
Infinite dislikes
Mine?
BUT PROTO! In the Johto, Hoenn*, Sinnoh, and Unova Regions, he earned his Gym Badges fair and square, so he's only a Fraud during Kanto's Indigo Leage.
*The only exception I am willing to admit is against Tate & Liza, Hoenn's Mossdeep Gym Leaders. That Thunder Armor bullshit should never have happened.
also in the unova region in the electric gym he had one pokemon and when it fainted he should've lost but instead ran all the way to the PC to get another one if he could do that then all you have to do to win a battle is do what he did
Mr Evil666
To be fair, in the Anime, the Nimbasa City Gym Battle is a 3 vs 3 Match, so Ash was allowed 2 more Pokemon than just Palpitoed.
wow greeaat arguement "he was only a fraud the first time" besides hes not even the fraud here the real fraud is the indigo gym leage's staff
Brandon Overton
My argument is "Ash only gained badges illegitimately in Kanto (Excluding Mossdeep City cos Thunder Armor is Bullshit)"
Go ahead, find ANY Moment in Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, or Kalos where Ash was just handed a Gym Badge without having to win against the Gym Leader. I bet you can't.
So, yes, it IS a great argument, because it's TRUE!
The Amazing Anon oh but ur misunderstanding me i never was disagreeing with u either in my own opinion hes just a shitty trainer
Well that doesn't make Ash a fraud. A fraud would be if he made his badges out of tin or stole them from somebody else. Ash is kind of a schmuck who somehow manages to save the day most of the time. Ash isn't completely unprepared for the Pokemon league as he does beat several trainers, but he isn't the best either. The main overarching theme of Pokemon seems to be that there are more important things than winning like friends and befriending your Pokemon. Part of Ash's character arc is that he doesn't start out as a very competent trainer. He oversleeps and almost gets killed by Spearows. He is the guy sort of stumbling along as opposed to Gary Oak who has it all figured out.
Here's the thing I think the anime was trying to tell young kids: You do not have to win all the time to be a true winner. He never became a true champion nor did he win every single battle placed in front of him, but Ash did prove that he had true heart, compassion and respect for his fellow pokemon trainers, his own pokemon, and just in general. Yes he did not truly win all the badges and the entire show had sketchy stuff all the time, but I think its better to believe in someone who can acknowledge that he is not the "best" and instead merely "tries his best".
But when it came to it since he got all his badges by "trying" he failed horribly at the Pokemon League because he didn' earn them correctly so he tries his best but it isn't enough.
jdd6890 Totally agree with You. The show was more about Moral for Kids. But still doesnt change the fact, and Personally i would get pissed to face Ash in the Pokemon Leuge if i knew the Thruth ^^
xxXxXQuickQuack UberNoscoper XxXxx
Considering he lasted longer than Gary Oak and there is only One (1) Winner of the League...He got into the top 16.
He lost against Ritchie...lets look at that battle
Squirtle, knocked out by Sleep Powder
Pikachu, called out as exhausted and Ash is surprised when Pikachu thinks he can fight. Knocks out a Pokemon before falling to a Charmander
Charizard beats the Charmander then refuses to finish the battle against Ritchie leading to Ash's loss.
So he lost a 3v3 battle, because Charizard is a dick and after KOing 2/3 of Ritchies pokemon.
Your saying that someone who got into the top 16 of a 250+ trainer tournament 'failed horribly' when the only reason he lost was because of Team Rocket and Charizard's discipline issues (which make no goddamn sense in-character btw)
Aaron Richards I know you're an ash fanboy but he only got into the top 16, He wasn't prepared well at all when he had so much potential, It's an idiotic move to send out a pokemon that won't obey you and that IS Ash's fault, If he can't make his pokemon obery him
"I only got in the top 6.25% of all the 8 Badge trainers after less than a year of being a Trainer"
Oh yes, he 'only' got into the top 16, my bad.
Ill have to rewatch the episode to see why he chose Charizard, but he would have swept Ritchie with Pikachu if not for Rocketness
Yeah sure, Ill give you 'idiotic move' but not that he 'FAILED HORRIBLY' like you said in your post.
I hate when people ONLY focus on the first generation he probably earned the rest of his badges legitimately in the other generations. But I can see why he did only focus on gen one but one generation doesn't count for all of them though, but for the other BS that happens in the show...
the video would be really long if he counted the other gens but he could do a 6 part episode
He actually battled Maylene to a draw, and she STILL gave him the badge because and I paraphrase "To earn a badge, the gym leader just has to recognize your strength"
Cody Hines If what she said Ash DID earn his badges and i would have used half as much time beating the gyms on my Nintendo DS
Cody Hines So if I become a gym leader does that mean I don't have to give you a badge if I don't recognize tour strength even when you beat me?
Commentator Chris
I don't think that's how it works no. I think that's the excuse she gave him.
The stuff in Kanto falls on the gym leaders' shoulders, not Ash's. They're the authorities and apparently thought Ash deserved the badges. That doesn't make him a fraud... Besides, he beat the last three gym leaders; the hardest ones, anyway, fair and square. It doesn't matter that there was a substitute, that was Giovanni's decision. Ash beat his pokemon.
And Ash hasn't gotten a pity badge since he battled Erika. That's over and done with and he's earned every one since.
+ganoninthepit dahhh!
young sandwich lol what?
ganoninthepit join me link and i'll make your face the greatest in coridye...or else you will dahhh
If he had any honor & integrity he wouldn't accept those badges without winning the battle to earn it!
ganoninthepit Yeah but apparently everything else is mood and he still a fraud for that 😡
You've stepped up your game proto.
Brian Bernard I try man, trying to do better for the community.
Charizard didn't respect Ash because he was a fraud. He later gave Ash a chance because he felt sorry for him. /endofdiscussion
Dude your hating on ash
+StarForce Hating for telling the truth? ok lol. He was given most of his badges he didn't earn most through battle skill.
+Marvin Lopez yes he did
+StarForce Yeah he sure did earn the badges right. That's why this video proves otherwise lol. He started to become a good trainer in the Orange Islands but he was a joke in the Indigo League.
+Marvin Lopez dang bro
of the 5 badges earned improperly:
1. child
2. women
4. woman
6. woman
8. criminals
of the 3 badges earned legally:
3. grown man
5. grown man
7. grown man
Rampant sexism or maternal instinct?
2 and 8 were earned legally as well.
Ash has finally pissed me of to the point I don't want to watch Pokemon anymore
Watch Generations, it's so much better and quite nostalgic
Gary is the true champion.
never gary cheated the whole story there are even theories on how he is affiliated with team rocket
I think he just be there to battle player were the rockets are at the times. All he was there for at Nugget Bridge, Silph Co. and Pokémon Tower was just to battle player and no other reasons. Just to see if he can beat you. After all His role is the Rival and does aim to be better than the player himself/herself.
Gary may not have made it to the top 16, but he was clearly a more skilled trainer than Ash was when they both competed in the pkmn league. Gary earned 10 badges when Ash only legitimately earned 3 as this video demonstrated. Gary also had caught 200 pokemon while Ash besides his Tauros only had 5 working pokemon, and most of them were hand-outs just like the badges. Gary's pokemon also were more advanced, having reached their final stages of evolution and generally better trained. Ash's pokemon were more inexperienced, he had never bothered to even use krabby or muk before the pokemon league. Charizard was so badly-trained at this time that it wouldn't even obey Ash, and usually set him on fire.
Ash improved by the time of the silver conference, but at this time he was an incompetent trainer who survived just on luck. Gary would have destroyed Ash had they gone head-to-head during the pokemon league, and Gary indeed did so when they faced each other after the Orange Islands.
this is a reply to song thief not you protomario
he has 10 badges why
I love the "but proto" part. I laugh every time, I enjoy listening to your videos!
THANK YOU for addressing this!!! The entire Kanto journey drove me crazy! Ash earns less than half of his badges properly and catches half of his pokemon by just befriending them. It's no wonder his Charizard never obeyed him in the Kanto series. I wouldn't have either!!!!
Nope ash earned more than half his badges in kanto. Besides he was a novice at that time.
My opinion of Ash: Meh. I just find anime dorks amusing. I don't give a crap about the correlation between the animé and the games, I honestly don't expect them to go by the book at the very least.
Well, here's my take.
Gym leaders are meant to give badges to trainers who earn them. If they earn them through battling, that's fine. Perhaps the other felt that Ash had earned those badges in a different way?
Also, you're making a mistake that most everyone makes. YOu're trying to judge the anime by the game standards. They are two different continuities. With two very different ways of working. Not just the game mechanics, but also the way the characters think and act. It's like apples and oranges. They are both fruit, but an apple is an apple. and these are both Pokemon, but the anime is the anime. See?
Leo Ryff no.
Dislike
His real name is ass ketchup
So, Ash is a Fraud in Kanto...His punishment, Never winning a Pokemon League Championship.
Since the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier are not actual Pokemon Leagues, Ash is allowed to win those. And Ash has been blacklisted by the Pokemon League and any and all Gym Leaders he chooses to battle, Force him to battle for the badge, regardless of outside interference.
Theory: What if certain trainers (i.e, Harrison, Tobias) are put in place intentionally by the League to ensure that Ash does not win a Pokemon League Tournament?
He obviously lost because he was severely underleveled (due to him almost never having any trainer battles and using stage 1 starters for most of his team.
No he lost in final
+Nikita Biyen was in Final and lost to Alain, a "member", or someone with a known connection to Team Flare. Again, someone "put in place" to ensure Ash doesn't win.
You can't really debunk an opinionated theory. It can't be proven or disproven because we don't know the writers' reasonings for Ash always losing. Just like how Ash WILL win in Alola, but in the next region after where there are gyms and a normal Pokemon League, he will lose again. That is how you keep Ash's story going.
That's awesome! I like that theory.
he's also cursed to stay 10 forever
didnt he have to rematch w/ Sabrina like 3 times before finally getting a badge via...yeah getting her to lose her focus by laughing at haunter
Hah.. Earth badge fell on the Ground XD
ash has come along way since then now actually earning everything he gets
Give Ash a brake
Ash Isn't A Fraud, It's Literally Just Teaching Kids Important Lessons Like 'Always Help' Or 'Be Nice And You'll Get Your Way' Or Something Like That. Plus, It's A TV Show. A _Kids_ TV Show. It's Not Going To Be The Same As The Games Fully. Yeah, Sure, Ash Can Be An Idiot, But Still. I Know This is On You, But Still.
I would like to challenge that by league on your theory of him being a fraud:
Indigo-very early years he was inexperienced and unprepared, the show defied the games logic, it essentially inversed the type chart in order to do so.
Johto- moderate improvement to the point of winning a league (orange islands)
Hoenn- finishes strong, gains more experience
Sinnoh- i personally hated this one, the writers screwed this up significantly, they rigged the battle with Tobias by quite possibly giving tobias an all legendary pokemon team, which we all knew he was losing because the team wasn't strong enough to counter many of them, and he did not train enough to have them able to combat him
Unova- loss to cameron, shows what he's learned these generations
Kalos- TBD, i predict he wins Kalos league, so far great telling of a story for Kalos
Man Proto I love that background music, Glitchxcity has some amazing remixes doesn't she? Indigo Plateau's theme is amazing ^.^ But Great video as always, I really actually don't think a lot of Ash, not hating but well in my opinion he isn't really the best... Great theory Proto, Keep it up ^^
First season he would've won the orange league if it wasn't for charizard not listening to him which resulted in a disqualification. Charizard could have easily blew past all of that kids Pokemon.
Does Gary oak count as a fraud to? Since technically some of his badges aren't official?
Yes
Well, Ash didn't really earn Lt. Surge's badge, or Blaine's badge. With Lt. Surge, Pikachu just stood on his tail to "ground himself from the electricity". I'm sorry what? That's not how electricity works. With Blaine, Chatizard alone fought, without listening to Ash, and acting upon his own accord, battling with his strategy, etc. In other words, Charizard battled Blaine and won, not Ash, therefore meaning Charizard should have that badge, seeing as he fought and defeated the gym leader.
that's actually exactly how electricity works lol..
Sean Mcneely He was just as grounded both times. Standing on his tail would have channeled the electricity to one point, therefore making it more dangerous, not harmless.
He also rarely caught anything and moves that have no effect on certain pokemon would be super effective when he used it.
charizard did listen to ash when ash told him the moves he should have used. So yes he won that. As for pikachu its a cartoon, not everything is going to be scientifically accurate. In the pokemon world he won that fair and square.
Technically, Charizard won the seventh gym battle not ash 😂
Charizard is ash's pokemon, he raised him. Besides Charizard did listen to ash in that fight(the only time in the indigo league that charizard listened since evolving from a charmander)
ProtoMario it really upset me when I was watching "Pokémon: Genesect and the Legend Awakened" and when ash and mew two met in the movie they didn't have any memory of each other. It's like "wtf man" could you explain this to me?
I realize I'm replying to this very late in time, but I though I should chime in with my understanding of the answer to that question, in case you're still wondering. Anyway, I felt the same way, and as it turns out, producers of the series have confirmed that that is a different Mewtwo that was created later on. It's honestly disappointing to me as I really admired to old Mewtwo and Mewtwo supposed to be legendary, which usually means that there's only one of that Pokémon.
You make some pretty valid points here, but since he actually started winning the battles to get badges in latter seasons, I think he might be considered to have redeemed himself in the regards you brought up here.
Take his Sinnoh adventure for example, where he battled every Gym leader and won to get his into the Sinnoh League, and it showed as he was the second best trainer there, losing only to Tobias but getting closer to beating him then anyone else did.
And would've won if not for Trollbias
Muraia The Sagely My point exactly.
Muraia The Sagely
I know right? They should have had Ash win so he could battle Cynthia because there was so much build up for that..
Yeah they shouldve given him the league but lose to Cynthia or an Elite4 member at the very least
I know you can't look at him battling all the gym leaders he's ever fought, but you're just focusing on Kanto. I think gym leaders can award a badge to trainers for whatever reasons they want. They are experienced enough to become gym leaders; they have reasons. Maybe the elite four/pokemon league would check it out if gym leaders were continually giving trainers badges for unreasonable reasons, but when Ash gets badges even though he loses, the gym leader says something like "You did a great job! You've earned this badge for your hard work, even though you didn't win!" Just because Ash doesn't always win his badges like you have to in the games doesn't make him a fraud.
in some cases you are right if ash fights team rocket wich are in that case stronger then the gym leader he should get a badge but you can't ask for a badge by saving some island atleast in another season he choses to fight a gym leader who littarly
hands out badges so that's something
lucian
Voltner?
Cody Hines can you give me the season
and the episode please?
lucian
(looks it up) Diamond and Pearl 165 "Flint Sparks the Fire"
ok thanks *watches the episode*
I'm pretty sure it is the "GYM LEADERS" call on giving out their badges or not, if they deem the trainer worthy of having it or not. So...yeah this whole Ash is a fraud in Season 1 at least is kind of pointless.
1 badge: Ash quits the battle and tells Brock he will come back to defeat him. While stopping the battle despite already attack with the sprinklers. Ash showed compassion to Onix who was in pain, similar to Brock telling Onix to stop binding Pikachu while he was in pain.
2nd badge: Ash was winning the fight against Misty and nearly won the fight. Despite Team Rocket interrupting their battle. Misty who is technically a official gym leader of the four sisters and almost lost the battle. Had shown Ash had the battle skills of earning the badge, hence why her sister given the badge to Ash. As well pointing out if Pikachu didn't refuse to fight against Misty? She would have been easily defeated.
3rd gym: no comment as we all know how that fight goes.
4th gym[fifth gym in games] Sabrina: Haunter WAS his 6th Pokemon slot in his party when he faced off against Sabrina, thus when Haunter made Sabrina laughed and lost concentration? He had officially won the fight as Sabrina, had a strong psychic connection with Kadabra rendering him useless to fight. Thus, Ash won this badge in...a weird fashion.
5th gym Erika: Erika should have lost her job over her overreaction of Ash not liking perform or even not fond of them. Heck I myself don't like perform cause it messes with my allergies; but beside the point. He still despite how cruel and mean Erika and her co-workers were of the boy? Went into a burning building and saved her Gloom from burning up and perishing in the gym. Thus showing Ash will put aside ill intentions or bad blood with someone, just to save their Pokemon from danger. Yeah go on and say he didn't win the badge, but the way Erika refused to battle him and gave him a hard time. AND risking his own life to save her Pokemon while putting aside their animosity between each other had earn Ash the right for the badge, showing he was the better person than Erika was.
6th badge: no comment
7th badge: no comment and err technically can see where Ash is coming from? But glad Blaine forced him to fight for the gym badge, even though the boy helped him stop the lava from bursting out and burning the town slash island.
8th badge: HE earned this badge, I don't care what anyone says. Gym leaders are allowed to have stand ins to watch over and do battles with Pokemon trainers for the gym badge.. Team Rocket despite rigging the gym to work in their favor and making sure that they will win the fight, Ash proven his might and worth despite them cheating or not. Still defeated them and show that his Pokemon were strong enough to stand and even fight against Giovanni's Kingler, Rhydon and Machamp while being OFFICIAL gym leaders by Giovanni asking them to watch over the gym. Ash beats them and sends them flying in good old rocket fashion, with Jessie dropping the badge that Ash surely earned on his own. By defeating if I remember correctly all of Giovanni Pokemon and their own Arbok and Weezing. In the sense and saying Ash didn't earn that badge is completely false and that Jessie even refuses to give the badge to him. Despite the boy defeating them in battle, I honestly couldn't believe you skipped on this little tidbit in your little segment. May I also remind everyone about Brock's Mother and Father watching over the gym in his stead while he was out?
So yeah even though this is just an opinion or a discussion? I'm not really going to get to upset about it but will have to point out a few things that is...somewhat flawed in your logic. As well as everyone else has stated: 'The writing for the first season of Pokemon weren't and still isn't the best out of them all." so yeah...good video either way but some of your claims aren't the best without really looking too deep in the episodes and the meanings behind how Ash won the badges, or how he went out of his way of earning them. Don't get me wrong it is actually a good topic to discuss and brings up really good points, having people pondered it. But in all seriousness Ash has officially by "Gym leaders" own calls. Earned their gym badges and deem him worthy of getting them.
+Megamanexe I liked how in the Orange Islands arc the gyms had tests of skill and endurance not just battling
tullyDT
Same here it made even though it is filler, the season quite enjoyable to watch and we get to see how determine Ash has become during his journey through Kanto.
OK helping people and Pokemon dose not mean Ash is a frod
I know I was super mean in an episode before this, but I think you have really, really improved over the year
This is one of the reasons why ash sucks compared to red. Ash lacks so much experience!!!
Nether let's plays But he got better throughout the series. Instead of getting badges without earning them, he does what every trainer would do, witch is get all badges by earning them
Still the lack of kanto experience, and never winning a single pokemon league and orange islands doesn't really count because orange islands is kind of like a non-official league. and that red has 150 kanto pokemon, when ash has somewhere around 86 or something, and that ash is still pretty stupid compared to red. Ash still technically sucks :/
but ash throws pokeballs at people's heads -_-
umm he threw a pokeball at iris' head in black and white
So are you 12.5volt. Ash still deserves the badges except for the team rocket one because that was a illegal badge.. But still, he deserved all of those badges.
no
Jochie Omar The only reason Ash lost the Indigo league was because Charizard didn't obey him,but look what Charizard did for him in the Orange league and the Battle frontier
Were you talking about the badges or the league? Because in the game, you dont get badges for beating team fuckface. in real life you dont get free grades for cleaning your desk at school or college. He didnt deserve those badges because HE DIDNT EARN THEM BY BEATING THE GYM LEADER. So he basiclly snuck into the league and got his ass handed to him.
Jochie Omar No but you can do things to give yourself extra credit and bump up your grades. He fought every gymleaderevery time he didn't "earn" a badge it's obvious that he would have earned the badge without extenuating circumstances,Ash won against brock,
his duel with misty was inconclusive because Team rocket showed up, but ash wasn't exactly loseing,Lt Surge, first fight he get curbstomed, no question he looses doesn't deserve the badge, comes back the second time uses the proper moves wins, deserves the badge.
I don't feel like explaining all the rest when he actually did explain why he EARNED all the badges, he didn't WIN them but he did EARN them.
In the Anime Pokemon Training is more of a sport while the game is just math and If the anime had to fallow all the rules of the games Charizard would have instantly obeyed ash in the league because he had all the badges.
Jochie Omar but that's not anime logic. I believe Gym leaders are meant to be judges, to examine how a trainer battles and gives them the badges if they are adequate.
ProtoMario You seem to be using conflicting sources to legitimize your point. In the anime, specifically season 1, we're given very little detail on how the Pokemon world works and functions. Yet you seem to be drawing a lot of your information from outside sources, this immediately discredits your theory because the manga, anime and games are similar but have their unique differences.
For example, you say that Ash is a fraud because he didn't earn all of his badges. But this is false, by "saving the day" a Gym Leader could potentially decide that Ash has earned he badge. The show never states the explicit rules of how a badge my be acquired, yes traditionally trainers must defeat a Gym Leader, but only the Indigo League qualifications. 8 badges, 6 Pokemon, by the inherent rules of the show Ash is not a fraud since every badge is official and there's no one to monitor how badges were acquired if I recall correctly.
Furthermore, your focus on Season 1 alone is incredibly weak. You assert that because Ash had an unorthodox start that it discredits his entire journey. How?
BUT PROTO! In the Johto, Hoenn*, Sinnoh, and Unova Regions, he earned his Gym Badges fair and square, so he's only a Fraud during Kanto's Indigo Leage.
*The only exception I am willing to admit is against Tate & Liza, Hoenn's Mossdeep Gym Leaders. That Thunder Armor bullshit should never have happened.
Moral of the story : Stop putting childrens or young immature adults as gym leader. A gym leader is basically the fucking mayor and protector of the town, leave it to grown ass men like Surge, Koga and Blaine, they do their job AND they're epic soldiers/ninjas/scientist
I blame the Indigo League lost on Team Rocket and Ash not being able to train Charizard. His Pokemon was tired by time he battle Richie it was just luck he won a match or two. Second Charizard did not battle Richie's Pikachu because it didn't respect it as for the gym battles it was a bout of the show to make Ash a better character and make more money which the creators have succeed into doing
and also squirtle falling to sleep=KO .... the fuck?
My initial reaction to seeing this video in my recommended feed:
"Well no shit, tell me something I don't know"
Munkee Haruka You’re completely wrong about Ash
Welcome to the 301+ club. How tough are ya?
i ate a bowl of pokeblocks for breakfast......without any milk >_>
I'm so tough, I stepped on a lego, and only cried for 20 minutes!
I'm so tough my splash did not nothing and I had to recharge the next turn.
I'm so tough that I'm in the 302+club
Whoaa!!!!!
A gym leader can bestow upon a challenger a badge if they feel they are worthy. All of those gym leaders thought he was worthy or maybe they didn't. Eighth badge Giovanni is a criminal therefore he did illegal things anyway Ash still won!
ash is a better trainer than you give credit for
true, he did get some of his badges in unorthodox ways. but he deserved every one of them. proto i love your theories but this is one of the few that rubs me the wrong way. it seems clear that while you bring some good points, much of this spawns from your own bias and hate to the anime.
i think it is a TV show and if he was to win the bag the same way each time what fun would that be? The same thing over and over and over and over....... Tell me that is better then what we got.
Charizard adds to this. Since ash technically earned 3 badges. The higher leveled the pokemon, the less likely it will listen.
If you notice the names.. Ash is actually a wannabe Red. In reference to FIRE Red, Ash is what you get after a fire. Ash also highly prides over his disobedient Charizard, which is pretty much Red's primary pokemon. Ash's father is still unknown just as Red's father was.
They pretty much had to make a likeable character for TV series with a likeable Pokemon (aka Pikachu) for both genders.
Ash is a phony yes
Ash is a stupid and intolerable version of Red.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the whole thing about the badges was odd.
Ash did actually win the badges in the other regions which starts the question why some people strongly believe gen 1 is the best
Could the fact that he didn't earn many of his badges be the reason why his Charizard refused to obey him?
I have a theory idea- What is the meaning of Serena cutting her hair in the Anime?
I've seen many different answers and I want to see your point of view.
ash battles with heart and he is one with his pokemon (most of his pokemon)
ash is the best
About the badges that were outright given to Ash, could it not be interpreted as the gym leaders forfeiting the match? As official gym leaders, do they not have the right to decide for themselves how the gym is run, including appointing temporary proxies to fight in their place? That means the only badge that's kind of shady would be the last one, the Leaf badge.
No offense, but now your starting to sound like a hypocrit, one moment you say Ash is better than Red, then you call Ash a fraud. Its really starting go 360 here Proto.
Keep in mind as well that this really ONLY ever occured in Season 1. On the Orange Islands he got all 4 badges legit. As well as in Johto, all except Whitney (maybe, I don't know) had legit fair battles with Ash, etc, etc. Hell, he won all 8 Sinnoh badges in fine style, even 3-0 Crasher Wake.
This arguement only applies to Season 1, so I'd put a disclaimer that this theory only applied to Season 1, and not the series as a whole.
Personally, I like ash a lot. While in the original season he was kinda nooby, it shows he was uh... a newbie. As he wenton he actually started WINNING his badges, and the best example of this is the 17-18 season where he trains hard when he loses gym 1, trains a little gym 2, and tries to train his butt off gym 3. So yeah, ash was horrible in indigo leauge, but slowly got better. Like he should. Except for his battle against trip. That was pathetic.
I lose my mind in the anime when it comes to Ash's battles! It drives me so insane I actually start yelling at the TV screen about how stupid he's being. It's like I'm watching Markiplier play Don't Starve on TV.
Honestly, his past fixed his future (except BW series). He could have been boss at the league if he trained his Charizard more.
The closest he's been to winning the league was the Sinnoh League (and he lost to a cheap guy who used Darkrai and Latios)
Still hoping the writers have something great in stored for Ash in the future. I hate his character, though it's pretty pathetic how the writers are treating his character. Like a pure jobber working for WWE that is always denied a champion title.
I want to point out the massive, massive Hypocrisy at 4:54 where you say that the Earth badge was legit all the Ash haters agree with you on that but note that Trip had an outside influence helping him yet everyone jumps and says that Ash lost that match despite it an illegal win for Trip
He got the earth badge legitimately, Team rocket got pokemon from their boss to battle with but jessie refused to give him the badge afterwards, after they got blasted off again she simply dropped the badge and ash got it.
My Thoughts on the Kanto Gym Leaders/Badges
Brock: Somewhat so annoying and a wimp
Misty: Somewhat bad tempered and a sometimes a bit selfish every time Team Rocket needs help and easily a loser
Lt. Surge: Did exactly what he should've done
Erika: Somewhat fussy and bossy on boys and a wimp
Sabrina: Easily the scariest thing in the Kanto Anime and literally the worst for being defeated for laughing
Koga: Done what he should've and wasn't a pushover
Blaine: Same as Koga
Giovani: Umm, why is he Gym Leader again and a wimp
Ash couldn't beat Ritchie because he didn't defeat most of the gym leaders.
i must admit i've not seen much of the show(lost intrest) but from this explanation, i'm gonna have to side with ash being a fraud.
It's actually a wonder he made it to the Top 16 at all during the Indigo League.
But, hey, we can blame Brock, Misty, Sabrina's dad, and Erika for Ash thinking he was just gonna be handed a badge by Blaine. And Ash DID learn from this. He's been earning his badges ever since.
I think the battle with Brock, I think Brock think Ash won was due to outside interference by his siblings and that might cause an automatic disqualification on Brock's part and Brock feels he must give the badge to him.
The Cascade, Marsh, and Rainbow bad I got no explanation.
For the thunder badge, I think the rules state you beat the Gym Leader's Pokemon to win the badge regardless it is on the trainer's or the trainer's Pokemon's volition. The same goes for the fire badge.
So in the pokemon adventures manga red is also a fraud i dont think he beat misty in a gyn battle and he stole lt surges badge (thats all i know i havent finished)
Well While I agree ash relied on alot of dumb luck I think you over looked a few things.
First it's true he was given 4 badges even though ash didn't finish a battle with the gym leaders. However the circumstances surrounding those 4 events are unique. He did actually battle all those leaders. And there is a precedence for gym leaders choosing to award or deny a badge on not just battle prowess but character of the trainer... there is a reason you never see team rocket members with badges... Which shows that even giovanni, whos a crime boss respects the concept of the gym system otherwise he'd have given all his rockets gym badges to fleece the indigo system...which he doesn't. this also shows an amazing amount of character depth on giovannis part which is later fully explored in the origins 4 part series with Red. So Ashes actions in the case of the 4 badges showed his true character as a trainer and a person, as such they awarded him on that merit. Now one could say that maturity plays a big role and it does, the leaders who give him a badge without finishing battle are kids, the ones who force ash to battle are mature adults. So if there is a fraud to be had its to be found in the young gym leaders not so much ash.
Second, to be fair in the game misty is the official gym leader of cureulean city, so it would make sense that in her absence traveling with ash, her weaker less experienced sisters would poorly manage that gym. And eventually misty does leave ash to return to her post as the cities gym leader.
Third, As for ash asking blain for a badge... well if you never house break a dog don't be surprised when it pees on the carpet. Again the gym leaders before blain were the problem... they instilled in ash that badges can be won both through battle and good deeds. That makes ash naive... but not a fraud.. he doesn't know any better... and it doesn't help that two of those hand out gym leaders are constantly traveling with him, reinforcing the wrong message. Thank god they fix brocks character and dignity in origins when he encounters red... (who is far far stupider then ash but thats another story).
Fourth and Finally as for giovannis gym. The gym itself is legitimate... he is the offical gym leader. So I agree its major slap in the face that giovanni doesn't battle ash. And as for outside influence, I again go back to the fact that rockets don't all have gym badges because Giovanni takes his gym leader role seriously, (which again is fully explored in origins). But as for jesse and james battling ash as gym leaders... that actually works because their is precedence for a single gym having multiple gym leaders... ceurulean gym. It has 4 gym leaders, misty and her three sisters. So either their all master gym leaders or there is a deputy system in place where one is the official gym leader, but others can be essentially deputized to stand in for the gym leader in a time of absence or illness. in fact this would have to be the case, otherwise the pokemon legue system would collapse if a gym leader became incapacited as there are only 8 gyms in kanto, and trainers need a badge from all 8 to move onward.
This would also explain why every gym in the game has several powerful trainers along the path to the gym leader... most likely their either gym leaders in training or deputies of the gym. So with this premise jesse and james may very well be official in their capacity as gym leaders to challenge ash for a badge. And since he's beaten them a thousand times over, he more then earned the viridian city badge.
The pity badges Ash received in the first part of the series did annoy me at first, though I realized that the fact that Ash received some pity badges might not be quite as bad as some are making it out to be, and for the record, I'm glad that most of his badges since then haven't been like that. As another person here pointed out though, Indigo League regulations basically just state that one has to have gotten 8 badges from the gyms and have at least six total Pokémon, so it seems that at least in the Indigo League, gym leaders may have some level of discretion in terms of determining who is worthy of receiving a badge. Additionally, in the long-run of things, winning isn't always all about winning competitively and/or being stronger than someone else. In the instances where Ash won pity badges, he didn't exactly defeat the gym leaders' Pokémon, but he did things that showed him and his Pokémon had a strong bond with each other and that showed courage on his part. So for me, while I prefer that most of his badges be ones that he gets through actually winning in battle, I think it was perhaps a good thing in a way that some of them weren't won that way so that kids viewing the show could learn that there's more to winning than just being stronger and winning competitively.
I don't think he's a fraud anymore as he does earn his badges now, but back in the first season... yeah, he definitely was.
I never really thought about this! I think it explains why charizard doesn't listen to ash because he didn't legitimately earn the 8th badge, it wasn't given to him so charizard doesn't recognize ash as a skilled enough trainer for him!!!! It makes so much sense now!!!
sigh...poor ash I mean yea he possibly coulda won if he got the badges the right way but its not completely his fault
hes just a kid so his thinking was probably " I saved the day and i deserve this ", most kids just expect things to be handed to them.
But he did do something... most kids expect things just cause of the fact they're kids.. :))
+yinloveyang true
Ash is literally the worst Pokemon trainer ever he doesn't understand typing differences weaknesses strengths advantages and disadvantages he's never properly earned a gym badge and he relies too heavily on a Pikachu a f****** Pikachu
Ash technically does win the Marsh badge legitimately as Sabrina begins to laugh uncontrolably as does her psychically linked Kadabra. Thus Kadabra is unable to battle. Thus Ash wins by default
Pokemon theory: volkner(8th gym leader in sinnoh) is minato (4th hokage from naruto) I mean.. t volkner uses electric types and minato is the yellow flash
I agree what the video said about ash but according to me, ash's loss in the indigo league was partly because team rocket exhausted all of ash's Pokemon. So team rocket can be blamed partially
I completely agree with you after watching this and i can't believe the thought never crossed my mind
so since he earned with blood and sweat every badge in kalos, reaching 2nd place was a testament that he was good enough?
In xy, he beats all the gyms fair and square, possibly in other seasons to, but the only Pokémon he legit pokemon he caught was fledgling :p
You know. The gym leaders are there to judge if the trainers deserve the badge or not. I don't see why not they wouldn't see Ash as a deserving trainer without him actually beating them in battle.
Well, in the original Pokémon ash was being a complete idiot. But he did got development in the second Pokémon and the other versions of Pokémon (most of them).
Well I've never thought of ash as a fraud but the way you put it he is and actually a couple years ago I actually thought he only truly won 3 badges in the indigo league. So thank you for clearing that up
I'm with you, i always found Ash a terrible trainer. Even when i was 10.
He was just luck on how everyone on Kanto is either a fraud too or weak as a trainer
Well in Ash's defense, quarter-finals is pretty good for someone who wasn't ready to take on the league.
its called plot armor
Josh Miller Don't you mean Round of 16?
Misty WAS an official Gym Leader and the Pokemon her sisters said they had left was a Seel, NOT a Goldeen. Research Fail.