Fixing the BIGGEST problem with Warhammer Legions Imperialis
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- Опубліковано 13 січ 2024
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Fixing the BIGGEST problem with Warhammer Legions Imperialis. Set in the Horus Heresy, this newest Epic 40k game from Games Workshop does have an issue. Can we add Orks, Eldar, imperials Guard, and other factions to the game. Wargaming should have more options, so let's try.
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Tbf I think the reason it's in HH system first is because they only need to make 2 factions to make 99% of players have their faction represented, unlike 40k which has a bunch more factions
Yeah, Space Marines are certainly the mot popular force by a mile. I do think they missed a trick not down scaling all of the factions though.
Also means you only need to make one product line
I wish they shrunk all the factions too. I have to get a 3d printer to make more armies
I think this is definitely the reason. They didn't want to pour money into factions or a game that they felt might fail since...they didn't put money into it with more factions or support 😅
It’s 100% the reason. Easier to keep the shops supplied with products.
I Absolutely Agree with your fearless "desecration" of rare old blisters and sprues! I'm old, with insanely-huge lifetime collections of gaming stuff and modeling hobbies. I recently decided to just build whichever valuable old models strike my fancy. After all, who am I saving them for? Some bottom-feeder estate scavenger? No Way!
They WANT to be painted.
By getting those old Ork models out, congratulations, your Ork army has more of its actual model range than anything in legions Imperialis does.
Haha, sad but true.
Those look great! I’ve got tons of 6mm epic stuff. I’ve bought a load of the new terrain, titans and resin order markers, and I’m going to play the new rules with old figures! Rules wise, just proxy the Orks for astra militarum
One basic tip that I've learned is that you don't actually paint a model black if you want it to be interesting... or to see the details. If it's meant to be black, you can paint it charcoal grey with true black in the creases and shadows. Edge highlighting in a lighter shad of grey (even if you're selective about where you do it) will also help them pop.
You nailed it.... completely nailed it. Since I started with Warhammer 2nd edition in 1995... I always think of the root game being Space Marines vs Orks. Same with Epic 40k (called 3rd edition epic at the time) when it arrived in 97. I actually love that rules set as well with the blast markers system. Anyways... I do think it is great that Imperialis exists and do love the Heresy era lore... but was thinking how much of a missed opportunity it was to not create a box set that takes place during the Ullanor Campaign. Luna Wolves vs Orks would be the largest reason to create likely one of the greatest box art covers in GW lore. Luna Wolves in black and white with Horus in White/Gold Armor fighting Orks and with large Titans in the background. This episode you've created with the retro orks confirms my suspicion that it would be a very enticing setting for 30k.
I agree other factions ar missing in Legions Imperials, this is the same "problem" for the 28mm normal Horus Heresy system. The later is actually less of a problem, since most models exist, so they just need rules (Eldar and Orks should not look that different), at least the Solar Auxilia seem to be finally getting a release here.
For Legions Imperialis this is, subjectively, more understandable, but GW hinted at some more factions in the future, so we can hope, it's not too long.
Quote form GWs Q&A:
"Which factions will be supported?
Right out of the gate, there will be releases and army list support for the Space Marine Legions and the Solar Auxilia. These will remain as the initial focus of the game, but as time goes on Legions Imperialis will expand into some of the more esoteric factions that participated in the Horus Heresy. But wouldn’t you know it, we can’t say which ones yet…"
That same Q&A also states:
"Will we ever see Warhammer 40,000 factions?
Legions Imperialis is a new game which is set firmly in the era of the Horus Heresy, letting you recreate the biggest and bloodiest battles fought in the civil war that set the galaxy aflame. There are no plans to expand this game into Warhammer 40,000 at the moment."
There is some room to speculate, but I think the guy in the video is on to the real reason. When you look closely there does seem to be quite a difference in creative direction between the specialist games guys and the mainline 40k + AOS team, it wouldn't surprise me if there's some internal politics going on here.
Of course company politics are a part of it. The mainline games bring in a huge amount of money, specialist games, especially are an unknown. HH on both scales is *cheap* to pull off, you need one faction to get it running, which equals less cost, since you need to make less different molds for sprues, which are insanely expensive.
So we can be *happy* that we got 2 factions(well technically 3), but I guess with the amount of vehicles the solar auxilia / imperial army was a safe bet, as well.
There is a community made set for orks, eldar and tyranids for LI, also there is epic armageddon (or epic UK) which is updated, and you can play with those models and bases. At this scale I would recommend priming grey+white cenital (warm the cans with water first), contrasts, drybrush, and oil wash, then also texture paste and pigments for the bases as done here
The Space Marine 2nd edition box with Marine, Ork & Eldar units formed the basis of our gaming group playing Epic.
So good right!?
I was always of the thought that the HH was meant to have battles that were HUGE- well beyond the scope of 40K- that could only be seen using epic minis. If 40K also has battles at such a grand level, HH starts to feel smaller and loses what makes it special… But, people should play what they think is fun…
I do lile that about HH. It should just be loads of dudes with bolters. I've always felt that Eldar and Orks should be added though, as they were pretty prevalent in that time period.
@@BroadswordWargamingI think they will be coming- would especially love to see Eldar get some real attention for a change!
I use the old tiny orkz (the green ones that are like 4mm tall due to theyre squatting pose) and im glad to see they dont look too our of place! I meqn in canon orkz were only 6 ft tall or so in rogue trader and space marines are usually 7 to 9 ft tall so it makes sense
YES so awesome to see little orkboys and their whacky vehicles - youre totally right, it should have been epic 40k all along with all the factions (or most of them)
The ork vehicles from Final Liberation were my absolute fave. Crazy little contraptions.
@@BroadswordWargaming There's rumours that Epic 40K will return if LI sells well enough.
The way I used to get rid or the individual model bases, was to put a load of poly cement glue on the bottoms, leave them for a while, until its permiated enough to make it like putty, then stick the model down, and use a hard tool, like a nail, to squash the model base out, and blend it into the underbase, you can even add more polycement on top, to blend it further.
Hopefully they can add other factions in the future! I’d love to see Orks and Dark/ Mechanicum in the future!
Brilliant! For those without access to the old models, there is a thriving Epic model scene for 3D printing and GW hasn't bothered nuking those yet so bring on those rules please.
I have been looking at ork titans tbf. The old ones aren't big enough, so printing soke massive monstrosity sounds ideal.
GW robbed us of the squat train 😔
That's one train I'm happy to jump off, haha. Eldar all the way! 😂
@@BroadswordWargaming That's goin' in the book!
I have a metric shed load of Epic Ork boyz and Battlewagons. I've been meaning to paint them up for a while now.
If you do have some rules for them, it would most certinly spur me on to get my lot done.
I have a whole, mostly unpainted, classic Ork army and a 3d printer. I’d love to see some rules for them. Also I loved your simple paint job.
Spiffing! The increased size is nice from the OG models. Will be interesting to see how popular it is and if they bring out other armies in time.
Yeah, I'm not sure how much support this will get.. but we can wait and see. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming did it sell out online with classic GW pre-order issues? What's demand/interest been like in your shop? What about Old World? That seems to have been WAY more popular than GW anticipated.
@@BroadswordWargaming I reckon both will be quite popular.
After all, both sold out day one.
Man, these old minis look almost better than the recently released ones.
I think I agree. The orks had so much character, too. They were awesome.
Awesome paint jobs! Love the bold colours.
Thanks a bunch!
The thing is, we already have confirmation more factions are in the works. Mechanicum, Custodes, (possibly) Daemons, and we already have another two (or one depending on if you count Knights and Titans as seperate or not)
Fingers crossed!
I think the reason for the limited scope is probably because it focuses on the factions that sell best, making the models it more profitable in general. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some factions lose money some years, especially for the speciality games that don't do as well in the first place. Kill Team is a bit of an exception, because the models are also 40k models, and are the main available models available for some 40k units like Death Korps of Krieg. But like, BattleFleet Gothic, Epic, Aeronautic Imperialis, I would be surprised if the Necrons were profitable in any of them. Orks, Eldar, T'au, and Tyranids, not for Gothic (maybe Eldar, although the rather small product line, which is still larger than most, kinda suggests no?), maybe for the others (where available, Necrons and 'Nids have have pretty limited lines for any of them, if at all, poor 'Nids).
Does make me sad tho, gone outta me way to hoover up all the Xenos Aeronautica Imperialis models I can get while they are still available. Hopefully we get an Orks expansion some day, I would guess that they would sell well, they were one of the larger lines for AI, and were probably one of the more popular Epic factions?
Their philosophy just seems to be different from 20ish years ago when they were willing to try making all these different factions and speciality games, which did ultimately lead to them losing money.
Good video bud. Great to see the Orks getting some love for Epic scale. I find it odd GW have not brought in Orks as they were around back in the Horus Heresy era.
Ah, thanks man! Yeah, I agree. Orks and Eldar would be great additions to those and HH. 😀
I think they would in due time.@@BroadswordWargaming
How do you seal the pigments please? It seems everyone I checked has his recepies
It's my hope, given that the original Epic was also originally just Heresy and branched out, that they'll do the same. It's part of the problem IMHO in general with 40k now is that without any large-scale game, regular 40k is trying to be all sorts of games to all people, instead of being squarely a company level game like back in the day, with Epic taking the place of large engagements. Now, they could have Epic for large games, 40k for company up to battalion level games, and Kill Team for smaller scale games, instead of trying to make 40k fill all sizes.
With the advancement of injection moulding, a 40K epic scale would be amazing. Give me some epic scale Sisters of Battle!
I am so happy that you use the dirty down products the right way and say it in the video. Pepole just get pisssed off at me for telling them to blast the bottle and model with a hairdryer and says shit like *i only want some fast rust on my models, dont need to bake the paint for 3 days* and i am just 😤, and it just take seconds to do
Haha. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate of Dirty Down. It's one of my favourite products. It takes a bit of practice, but you can get amazing results in minutes. I'll use any of them at any opportunity! 😀
That little stompa is adorable! Amazing job overall, love it!
Those last few steps made a big difference. They look amazing!
Yes Ollie! Def up for rules for orks... Also need some for the eldar army that I printed years ago and never managed to get painted 🤣
Im so tempted to get a few from each faction, just for fun!
@@BroadswordWargaming gotta be done! Just love the space elf titan/tank/flyer aesthetic
But cud never be bothered with that much full scale 40k
Filling the bases up to hide the little surfboards is definitely the way to go! Your way is probably smarter than mine though. I got some bootleg 6mm Krieg soldiers for my BattleTech force and used grass flock meant for 28mm models. Can't see the bases, but looks like they're wading through waist-high grass trying to avoid wild pokemon.
"A wild Pidgey appeared." Nah, that sounds like a good plan. I was tempted to cut them off but realised that'd take ages. 😅
Those dusty bases do so much to make this paint job pop 😍💪
yes would love to see the rules, hardest part will be finding orc or other legacy models that are even slightly affordable
I have thought on making orks too for battles on Ullanor from the great crusade, so a ruleset wouldnt be bad for me! :D
they really look amazing, you pulled off a mostly black scheme at this scale . hat off to you! seriously the bases and the transfers did it!
Thanks! I was a bit disappointed with them until that point. Some rust, some dust, and they're done!
The good thing about one faction is you can avoid the balancing problems that 40K has had for the last few editions. 40K is completely unplayable at this point and I have stopped playing after playing since the 1980s. With only one faction, the games can be closely matched and therefore much more fun to play. No crazy faction rules that make one side much more powerful than the other. I am finally excited about playing again now with Imperialis!
im a simple man i see a Broadsword Wargaming video, i upvote, i watch, and i enjoy.
Thanks team!
I presume someone's said this below . . . but why not just get some round bases from John at Vanguard Miniatures? They have holes for the bases. Or 3D print a load with similar holes?
Checkers pattern are insane on this little boyz
🎹
They look awsome totally agree was so sad when found out it was heresy era. kept my eldar all these years aswell
Ive always thought 30k was just a money grab. Im glad they brought back epic but it was disappointing to find out it was not 40k and the other factions would not be released. I have epic blood angels and steel legion armies though so hopefully i can use them interchangeably. Ive seen people putting tanks on bigger bases to make the size compadable, and i can't imagine most of the community will care if its a local game. Of course they wont be tournament legal but it would be nice to be able to play again.
gotta gets some epic nids next, they were pretty neat especially the bigger minis in that line
They were great. Don't make me hunt for more old models!.. OK, I'll do it. 😀
I would use the much cheaper Renedra bases instead of the expensive GW ones if you are going to go muddy bases! great video!
So which of the dozen Xenos armies do you think they should’ve included? No matter who you leave out people will complain.
Keeping in mind GW doesn’t have infinite resources keeping these production lines open costs money so they have to prioritize.
Going with the Heresy period really trims it down to Astartes, Solar Auxilia, Custodes, Mechanicum and Demons.
After Ulanor the Orks are all but extinct and the Squats are recovering from having been recently conquered. The Eldar are hiding and just trying to stay out of the way, the Tyranids haven’t reached the Milky Way yet, the Tau are still living in caves while the Necron are slumbering.
Oh, please don't mistake this for complaining. You're dead right, I've been playing enough games to understand that you can't please everyone. 😀
Whilst production issues are something we need to take into account, I worry this is a game that won't get much support moving forward (as where can they go with it?). Is it just a cash grab to sell of older stock from titanium and aeronautica? I guess we will find out.
Im a big fan of HH, and Eldar, Orks, Custodes, Demons, Admech are certainly relevant enough to the time period.
@@BroadswordWargaming I didn’t take your video or comments as unwarranted complaints. If you came across as being negative I wouldn’t have watched the whole video and bothered to comment.
I’ve played Epic since the first AT and Space Marine games thru all the versions. There were a couple of editions where they tried to push it and support it but It was just never popular. Ironically the current net epic free rules are probably as popular as any of the official versions ever were.
The great thing is though that due to 3D print you don’t need GWs blessing, support and official stamp of approval to enjoy a version you and your friends want to play.
If GW ever go full 40k in epic scale, I will be bankrupt. Thankfully for my credit card, the HH does not interest me.
Same haha
The original epic started in the Horus heresy as well. When they remade adeptus titanicus GW said they would not redo epic or add troops. Then they made aeronautica in the same scale. And now they released legions imperialis even though they stated they were not going to add troops to titanicus or revisit epic……so here we are. And yes, the original epic started the same way. With the sales doing great so far and rumors of custodes and ad mech next I can easily see them eventually adding other races after
Like you I was equally as disappointed in the epic scale release being HH. I started my Wargaming journey in 1991-1992 playing Space Marine on a pool table (hey it was green). This really took me back, thanks.
The ork horde was my first gamesworkshop purchase as a kid.
I really dont like the fact the new epic have round bases .
Production capacity is GWs main issue atm, they can’t make enough to keep things in stock let alone produce whole new ranges, take The Old World for example.
So.. Legiones Imperialis is set in the Horus Heresy and while there is mention in all of the novels and audio books and novella of the other races oin the galaxy (eldar and orks in particular) they never really feature in large scale battles, except for orks in the Chondax campaign. They could have made an epic scale game set in the 40k universe and they could then have produced all the factions we used to have. But as a few others have pointed out, thats more to make, more stock to hold and more to run out of. At it's core it is about the Legions of marines as they exist in the lore at the dawn of the 31st Millenium, during the Heresy.
Having painted four of the Ork clans for epic I'd say black should be avoided for infantry. It should only be used on bigger models otherwise the models just blend into the board. Great basing Ollie.
Just play Epic Armageddon, it's a phenomenal game - the community is going strong. "Specialist Games" were the best games GW ever created.
They look awesome!
Loved the video. Epic scale is the best scale
They do look very cool when they're all together!
Absolutely the reason i havent jumped at LI is because its locked in HH.
The issue absolutely is SGS - look at the nonsense of Old World, where we are missing half the factions because they won’t get revenue credit for AOS BU
Totally. It makes me feel like they won't support it much moving forward, so it's hard to get invested.
Maybe Mantics upcoming Rpic Warpath might be the answer
Stunning work!
Thank you! 😊
If Sisters, Orks, Crons, or Bugs were in legions I might have bought some.
Now its just gone forever and I wont miss it...
I reckon its a way of testing the waters. See how popular it is before committing to more factions. I think theyll come in time.
How can you play Final Liberation these days? I remember it from when I was a kid!
Check out GOG.com 😀 You can get Chaos Gate, too! Only costs a few quid.
@@BroadswordWargaming thank you!
Hey Final Liberation IS AWESOME.
It's soooo good. 😀
Well done!
Thanks 😀
If GW doesn't add some xenos to LI then I'm not likely to stick with it, and epic in the 90s was my favorite.
Was looking forward to epic but for me (and Im in the minority I know) Ive little to no interest in Space Marines. Its the weird aliens that make 40k and fantasy sci fi for me.
Nah, you're definitely not alone. I love the HH, but I have always thought we should have Eldar and Orks in there.
Look great
Beautiful
They look awesome
Thanks!
Man i always wantsd that game, real epic was cool, but sadly i chose amega rather than pc and dosnt have a pc till 2010
I'm not touching legions simply because it's set in horus heresy. Where are all the fun factions, Orcs, Necron, Tyranids?
The biggest problem is that you can’t get any of the models
Yeah - they've a loooooonnngg way to go before they even come close to the old epic variety and playability
Totally agree - why 30k? where is the fun???/
the biggest problem for me - is that I don't have it :-(
Ollie: i think the real biggest issue with Legions Imperialis is that almost all of the models are out of stock 😂
Hahaha. Well.. quite.
Yeah, because it’s set in HH I just have no interest. Give my my Xenos!
I think alot of people feel that way. Eldar and Orks were pretty key in the HH, so at least chuck them in!
This is why 3D printing is such a boon. You can actually print better looking stuff at the correct scale. Also, why try and make rules for it when you could just play NetEA.
What NetEA?
The fuck is NetEA?
Ionly a problem if you dont like HH
To be honest guys, Games Workshop need to actually produce and maintain descent stock levels. They struggle to keep marines and imperial army in stock. Why invest in any game where it is so difficult to source extra units for?
The problem is the rules are sooo bad.
There are already fan versions for the Xenos...
Ever heared of 3D printing?! Anything is possible these days, and this is the cheap / best alternative! Better and cheap!
What was the biggest problem with legions then?
They should have just made this a board game with cardboard pieces.
The lack of diversity in the HH era is a real turn off. The only way GW seems to want to add variation is ever more legion specific rules rather than new armies. I am actually waiting for Mantic games 10mm(?) scale game being kickstarted in Feb for an 'epic' game with alot more variety of army options. hopefully the ruleset does the game justice.
There's been "6mm grim dark" minis from various 3rd party companies for ages. I'm curious if LI ends up giving them a bump.
And I know you're not responsible for the sponsor - but any Trek based media that emphasises the "battles" is really missing the point of Star Trek..
Legions Imperialis had so much potential, but no Tau, no Necrons, no Tyranids... skip.
It's 30k, so those factions are fully existent..
Waaaaaaaaaaagh
Well said.
Boo Horus Heresy long live da orks
Why are my comments being blocked on this channel?
They're not! I can see this one. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming But my other comment is gone (I posted it 3 times to be sure). It was a totally reasonable, on topic, comment too! I barely said anything mean about your mum!
:(
Leave my mum out of it. Haha. Nah, I dunno, I have nothing on the held for review tab! 🙃
"Red makes them go faster." THIS IS WHY I SUBSCRIBE.