Tonight we look at a Gibson Goof and Two Guitars that Say Gibson on the Headstock... but aren't Gibsons! ❓Private Help Sessions: troglysguitarshow.com/help-appraisals/ 🔴Reverb: reverb.com/shop/troglys?_aid=growsumo&gs_partner=Trogly 🍭Shop Sweetwater + Support the Show ➡️ imp.i114863.net/trogly 👕 Merch: teespring.com/basic-logo-4245?pid=211
Great information and a great service for all. A couple years back I had an R9 build commissioned from a builder in China as an experiment. The guitar was built exactly to my supplied specifications. I purposely had my date of birth used as the serial number to make sure it was never confused as a real R9. 1-Piece mahogany neck with 1-Piece mahogany body w/maple cap, correct routes, long neck tenon and true ABR-1 bridge and correct fret wire w/binding nubs. I received only the husk and installed all Gibson hardware and electronics. It is a great player guitar and an interesting study in what is possible. Buyer beware. Great content on your channel Austin, thank you.
Seller: “this guitar was burnt in a house fire, hacked in half and dropped 100 times” Trogly: “done deal!” “Oop, looks like this has a 1mm crack from the nut to the fretboard. Looks like we can’t buy it.”
That weirdness in the gold paint on the headstock is what we call “gatoring", and it’s a result of laying on too much paint, too thick. You can also see another sag, as well as poor prep work where the headstock was grafted onto the donor clone.
Im quite sure what you've got there is a 4-5 year old Chibson, before they started getting really good on the details and matching actual model features . I got one with that same wacky truss rod cover at the time (not gold top, and no longer have to show). Wonkey body shape, import bridge, no fret nibs, all screams old Chibson to me. Serial number is meaningless, and too uniformly deep in my opinion as well. Grafting and painting a headstock to scam $1k seems implausible.
I have a 74 guild in better shape than most but about 25 years ago a guy stole it along with some other stuff. I got it back but he tried to gouge out the serial number I just have an old unreadable carbon from a pawnshop. Now I can't sell it (not that I would) I can't get it worked on n I can't take it out to play. Always keep proof of ownership
Are you talking about the bunching lines around the turners on the back ? Your right that it’s paint and poly but they are not drips. it’s caused when the clear is shot on top of a layer that hasn’t completely dried / cured properly. The clear on top having more exposure to air etc will dry much quicker than the moisture trapped layer underneath so it ends up pulling and causing that horrible bunching almost fingerprint like lines. Whoever sprayed it either jumped the gun and sprayed to soon or the mix wasn’t done properly and the thinner hasn’t incorporated properly in the gun/mix tank
The first thing I noticed was the truss rod cover. Also seemed strange that the only part of the guitar that looked dusty was the face of the head stock. I'm going to go with a knockoff body though. I have a Epi and something just doesn't look right with the guitar pictured to be an Epiphone model.
I had to pause it here at 3:30 cause I know for a FACT from that hilarious headstock that this is a fugazi. Also the amount of dust is overkill especially with that newish looking plastic nut, and don't get me started on that that truss rod cover font LOL
I went and looked at the “ les Paul” guitar, ad on Facebook marketplace, the headstock was broken above the first 2 tuners closest to the nut which is why I thought the neck was painted. To try to hide it. Also the paint on the back of the neck did not match the gold top. The guitar as a whole got my spidy senses tingling that somethings were just not right. It was also very light compared to any Gibson les Paul I have ever picked up.
Does the fact that the dot on the 'i' in the headstock logo is touching the 'G' instead of being centered mean anything? Did Gibson ever ship guitars with logos like that?
There needs to be some office you can report scammers like this to on reverb...deliberate, methodical scammers like this are the worst of the worst. The absolute bane of the used guitar market!
That's gotta make you feel a bit silly now, right?!! 😆 Hahahahaha..ya poor bastard! It's ok, we all make mistakes! Humanity itself is a joke. Laugh with us.... laughing at you! 🤣
He said headstock. The neck is not a les Paul neck. The headstock, and only the headstock, is. Joining a broken headstock to the neck of another guitar with a scarf joint is much less trouble than an entire reneck
It's not that much trouble for someone who knows what their doing. a person would simply cut the two parts to match, then glue it and clamp it together. and the nut being changed and the lack of fret nibs back's that up. it's too bad there are people pulling these scams. but there are a lot of dishonest people out there.
Regardless if it's fake or not which it clearly is, why wouldn't you take a minute to clean off that thick layer of dust on the headstock before taking photos?
hey Trogly,thanks for showing me all these cool guitars and showing me how to rewire and work on guitars.To this day im the only 12 year old kid who knows how to fix up a guitar that I know of (and for showing me my dream bass 😄).So I give thanks from Canada and merry Christmas.
Very educational. I would not have spotted the things you did on the Les Paul. However, I certainly would have steered clear of it because, if it sounds too good to be true then it usually is. Good video mate.
Great detective work ! The wrinkly stuff on the back of the headstock? Someone used an enamel finish and applied the coats too soon = wrinkling. Non-catalyzed enamels are not used anymore in auto refinish, but when they were, this was the result -solvents sealed in by re-coating too soon, and then when the solvent came out, it would wrinkle.
I've seen the markings on the back of the headstock by the low e tuner before. That is exactly what it looks like when plastic mask is removed while paint is wet and touches the paint. It also looks like a run just below that. I'd bet money I don't have this has been refinished, and poorly at that. It would also explain why the usa stamp looks more full of paint that the serial stamp.
On that fake gold top: you can see some weird, built up paint that became “brain pattern” on the back of the neck / head stock area near the tuning machine and further down the neck, they did not blend the head stock repair. That tuning bridge looks like it was crooked as in the mount holes were not parallel
5:30 those markings happen when you try to dry paint with a hair dryer. I know because I have done it, more than I would like to admit (but not on a guitar)!
Hey Trogly, have you ever tried out Reverend Guitars? I’m curious about their Airwave 12 string (all locking tuners stock from the factory, why hasn’t anyone thought of that before?)
This popped up in my market place and I spent 2 hours trying to figure out what this was! I had actually reached out to try and get more photos and maybe meet. located here in Oklahoma. I eventually passed because it seemed fishy and because I had watched your recent vid with you saying, "if it seems too good to be true, it is".
I noticed in the thumbnail that there were some red flags on that LP imediatly. the truss rod cover with the custom shop on it was a huge red flag. and the open book on real Gibson's will tend to be more pointy and more pronounced. the nut could been replaced and the lack of fret nibs, it could have been refretted but still red flags. and on the body there's a sure fire way to tell if it's a fake. and that where the control knobs are in relation to the bridge and tailpiece. and then looking at the back the red flags were all over the place. the serial number was correct as the numbers go but where is was stamped is very unusual and the made in USA wasn't right. I'm not saying it's impossible but that champagne gold finish on the back of the neck was extremely unusual. I believe it was wise move that person bringing it to your attention. what it really boils down to is that people in Gibson guitar world have to become better detectives.
This is probably the type of fake that's more likely to be sold and not raise suspicion. I repair guitar and doing this amount of work to pass off for $1000 just seems effort vs payoff is... Disproportionate.
This was actually listed in my area on market place and when I saw the markings I thought the same thing. fingerprints on a wet coat that were painted over. I spent a few hours trying to figure out what this was before passing.
Just from looking at the photo, it looked to me like it wasn't binding on the body, but the light from the flash from the camera. Though, you would know WAY better than I would. Keep up the great work!
I think you missed one thing Trogdaddy ,there was some wrinkly thing going on with the paint job on the back by the tuners. Amateur painting. Never factory doing that kind of job.
It's also going to have a "baby picture" on the bench, so that would be missing the silk screen as well. I also got a Les Paul that was 'in the wild' before it should be. My Les Paul 50's Standard was marked on the box "Heritage Cherry", but as you can see by my icon, it's in the color of the Appetite Burst. My guitar was produced just before those models came out, and I haven't really gotten a straight answer as to why it missed the HC part and how it became this color. All I can say is, "Yay, I got a one of a kind". :D I did a video, I have the "baby picture", and I also have documentation from Gibson that states that the color was changed in their records. I even did a little video on it. ua-cam.com/video/PZ8zfbC8tqc/v-deo.html
The head stock was painted over on the back side that's why you see the wrinkle in the paint it looks like they didn't wait for the paint to dry completely when the put the tuners back on and damage the soft paint
Nice catch, Glad these counterfeits were not around when I was buying, selling and appraising guitars. Those days are long gone for me. I occasionally will go with a friend to check out a guitar and have come across some very good fakes some that would will fool 90% of the people out there. I have gotten in a few arguments with sellers who claim a guitar is 100% original and it was not. Some you know are shady when they won't let you check out the cavities so you can see if the electronics are correct. It's just not the high end guitars they fake! No one questions the mid and lower end guitars and there are fakes of those out there as well. I have worked on a few and thought they really dropped the ball on this but after really going over it I realized it was a knock off! A lot of these were bought from sites that all or most of the products come from China. I wonder how many of those are out there that no one bothers to check.
Looks like the back of the headstock was handled when the paint wasn’t fully cured. I paint pedal enclosures sometimes and I’ve had the same looking “ripples” before. Maybe not but that’s what it looks like to me.
I once bought an beat up Les Paul and the seller wrote: not Les Paul with Gibson specs....bought it for 60 bucks and.....it was/is an 3 pick up black Beauty from 58.....my Baby! Okay, it took me 3 years and 2000 bucks to get it right but, man that wood is awesome 👍
Man, I see fakes on eBay all day long being sold as “original “. And clowns bid on them. Are people genuinely that stupid? I guess I’ve answered my own question. 🙄
I mean it seems like a hard skill to master, I don't think it makes you stupid for not knowing it. I do think it isn't smart to bid on something that expensive without being able to verify that it's real
@@mayhapsvenotcaleb4576 it’s really not difficult at all. Watch one UA-cam video and it’ll point out the obvious. Larger pickup rings (Epiphone import size) Les Paul USA have thinner sides. Bridge with flat slot adjustment (cause for alarm) no fret nibs (cause for further investigation), misshapen body contours, Gibson logo on headstock slanted, location of vol/tone buttons and toggle switch. And these are just a few that can be seen immediately. If someone is going to drop over a grand on what they believe is a Gibson, they should at least know a little. Ask for pictures of the back of the pickups , ask for pictures of the rear cavities open so you can see the potentiometers. It’s basically just common sense. But I guess that too has gone the way of the dinosaur. People today have all the information of the world at their fingertips. There’s no excuse for ignorance. And even if you can’t figure any of the above out, ask someone for help. It’s really quite simple.
@@Wargasm644 That's a lot of information for someone to memorize so I don't necessarily think it's as simple as you make it sound, but I don't completely disagree with you. Like I said, if you're dropping $1k on something, you should know how to tell if it's real or ask someone who does.
@@mayhapsvenotcaleb4576 even if you just memorize ONE thing, it’s better than blind faith. Take 20 minutes out of your day to watch a couple videos or read an article. All I’m saying is that it takes minimal effort to educate yourself on this. I research everything I buy. Takes 30 seconds on a cell phone. Every bit of information is at your fingertips. All I’m saying is that if someone is stupid enough to blindly drop a grand or two without even using the resources at their fingertips, then they are idiots. Plain and simple.
I'm not in the market for a real Gibson, I have an Epi with a headstock repair that I will make do with. But I LOVE this channel and learning about the different aspects of verifying fake from real and I love the comment section because there is a lot of knowledge and wisdom on here. When I can afford a Gibson, I wont be flailing about blind, thank you all. This is actually a big part of the vintage guitar FUN isn't it?
That 'XPL' is a Kramer. One of the ones done after they stopped being made by ESP and were made in the same plant as Epiphones, but before Gibson bought the brand. It would have had a big Kramer logo originally. Kramer had made single cut shapes since the 80s although normally with a Floyd and different control layout but late on they they made these. Gibson have revived the 80s variant over the years. ESP also made a single cut with a six a side although it was always their head shape. One they went to three a side heads they made the cutaway pointy possibly because of the Gibson/PRS case. Dean also made one, but again their pointer head shape and effectively an Explorer control layout.
The body looks distinctly Epi-phoney. I'm guessing it's a 2000s Epiphone Les Paul with a neck break, and they've grafted a Gibson headstock onto it and painted the neck to hide it.
There was a recent year where Gibson stopped doing Fret Nibs on the standards, I want to say 2014 or 2015. Everyone complained and they went back to the nibs. EDIT: It was 2014.
It's a shame we don't have more info from the seller. It's possible they're not trying to scam at all but may have inherited someone's project guitar that was never intended for resell. I've seen several guitars over the years where someone had a beloved train wreck that would never be worth fixing to resell but was sentimental enough to get it playing again on a budget. Sometimes these projects are actually "sleeper" players that would surprise you when plugged in and sometimes the story helps to justify asking prices. It may be butt ass ugly and lacking of a back story but I would love to see this one featured mainly because it's just so weird and quirky. Who knows? It might be awesome and worth $1000 after all to the point where the only one's getting scammed are those who would pass on it just because it's an ugly duckling with a yellow nut. Anyway I think it would be a great WYRON feature and I bet it can be had for much less. Besides aren't you just a little bit curious about what's hiding under the pups and what a black light test would reveal? I've never known you to pass up the chance to feature a spider or two!
Back side of this LP? Absolutely beautiful mahogany color - like on my soviet era(1984) Bulgarian acoustic. Equally beautiful is birch(!) plywood painted 10 years ago in China!
That is definitely an off brand guitar that had some slight refinishing to make it look like a Gibson. That marking on the back of the headstock is poly that didn't cure fully before they put those tuners on. Also, note the dot of the eye on the Gibson logo is off center and touching the G, and the Les Paul signature is curved. They probably used water decals and did a horrible job applying them. Nice try!
For goodness sake, when are ppl gonna learn to DUST OFF LISTED/SOLD ITEMS! It's so easy to use a BRUSH of any kind, an unused wide paintbrush for larger items, a makeup brush for delicate items, etc. People are such slobs!
Good point about the seller. People get stuff, check the numbers and run with it. I doubt they are scammers so much as 3rd party owners. Garage sale, estate clearing etc.
9:21 That is Miki Gakki, a very famous musical instrument shop located in Osaka, Japan. Established in 1825. That’s right, 1825; 40 years before U.S.Civil War ! They are an authorized Gibson dealer, of course. www.mikigakki.com/ec/cmShopTopPage1.html
As dusty as the guitar looks means it hasn’t been played in years and if it was in a basement it could have moisture damage. It’s my dream to go to a yard sale and some old guy is selling his sons les Paul for a 100bucks so the fact it’s been sitting around is appealing but non musicians don’t know anything about reverb.
FYI 2014-2015 Gibson’s do not have nibs. I REPEAT, THEY DO NOT HAVE NIBS. Don’t go based off of "no nibs." There are plenty of other ways to tell the difference between a fake and a real Gibson.
How much does a repair (crack in neck or headstock) generally devalue a Les Paul Standard? In my case I'm looking at a 2003 LP Std. with a headstock repair but its painted and hard to see the actual damage so I don't know how well the repair was done.
Not even just the horn in the cut away area, but the left side of the guitar...it looks lop sided...one side is way fatter and curvy and the other side is flat/it looks offset maybe...like, it just looks really wrong
Tonight we look at a Gibson Goof and Two Guitars that Say Gibson on the Headstock... but aren't Gibsons!
❓Private Help Sessions: troglysguitarshow.com/help-appraisals/
🔴Reverb: reverb.com/shop/troglys?_aid=growsumo&gs_partner=Trogly
🍭Shop Sweetwater + Support the Show ➡️ imp.i114863.net/trogly
👕 Merch: teespring.com/basic-logo-4245?pid=211
Walmart Gibson
You got to see on the inside
There was a period around ‘55/‘56 that Les Paul’s did not have the “Les Paul Model” wasn’t silkscreened on. Particularly the Jrs and Specials.
There’s a guy on the OfferUp app with a post for several fake Gibson’s. Main post is for a black beauty 3 pup. He’s in the Pensacola area.
Great information and a great service for all.
A couple years back I had an R9 build commissioned from a builder in China as an experiment. The guitar was built exactly to my supplied specifications. I purposely had my date of birth used as the serial number to make sure it was never confused as a real R9.
1-Piece mahogany neck with 1-Piece mahogany body w/maple cap, correct routes, long neck tenon and true ABR-1 bridge and correct fret wire w/binding nubs. I received only the husk and installed all Gibson hardware and electronics. It is a great player guitar and an interesting study in what is possible. Buyer beware.
Great content on your channel Austin, thank you.
Seller: “this guitar was burnt in a house fire, hacked in half and dropped 100 times”
Trogly: “done deal!” “Oop, looks like this has a 1mm crack from the nut to the fretboard. Looks like we can’t buy it.”
That weirdness in the gold paint on the headstock is what we call “gatoring", and it’s a result of laying on too much paint, too thick. You can also see another sag, as well as poor prep work where the headstock was grafted onto the donor clone.
I thought it looks almost like brains
It's also interesting to see how low down the serial number is stamped on the headstock. Tuners almost cover the first and last digit.
That's true. Just though it was interesting that gibson set the number so low.
It happens sometimes
I thought that looked wrong too.
Ya even if it was Gibson's bad I'd be wondering regardless if it was just a bad Gibson. Lol they ain't all gems that's for sure
This is always my fav trogs content. Learning how to spot some fakes
hell yea
Same here. He is a sharp one.
The only tell-tale sign I had picked up on myself was das toggle switchen's location.
Im quite sure what you've got there is a 4-5 year old Chibson, before they started getting really good on the details and matching actual model features . I got one with that same wacky truss rod cover at the time (not gold top, and no longer have to show). Wonkey body shape, import bridge, no fret nibs, all screams old Chibson to me. Serial number is meaningless, and too uniformly deep in my opinion as well. Grafting and painting a headstock to scam $1k seems implausible.
You should do a recap of all the guitaz you previewed in 2020
I have a 74 guild in better shape than most but about 25 years ago a guy stole it along with some other stuff. I got it back but he tried to gouge out the serial number I just have an old unreadable carbon from a pawnshop. Now I can't sell it (not that I would) I can't get it worked on n I can't take it out to play. Always keep proof of ownership
good luck and nice story
i have a idea of what that wrinkling on the headstock is, if you blowdry wet paint and you get it hot it wrinkles up like that
Those marks on the back of the headstock are paint drips, and thats not lacquer its poly. Look how thick the paint is on the neck with no wear.
Are you talking about the bunching lines around the turners on the back ? Your right that it’s paint and poly but they are not drips. it’s caused when the clear is shot on top of a layer that hasn’t completely dried / cured properly. The clear on top having more exposure to air etc will dry much quicker than the moisture trapped layer underneath so it ends up pulling and causing that horrible bunching almost fingerprint like lines. Whoever sprayed it either jumped the gun and sprayed to soon or the mix wasn’t done properly and the thinner hasn’t incorporated properly in the gun/mix tank
@@TJJJJJJJJJJJ Good info. Thanks!
he snapped
Definitely some kind of clear coat shot on undried paint. Had it happen to myself because I was impatient
@@bojamesmusic I wish I could say it’s only happened once to me and I learnt my lesson lol but it’s really hard waiting on paint to dry lol
It’s disgusting what people are capable of doing
The first thing I noticed was the truss rod cover. Also seemed strange that the only part of the guitar that looked dusty was the face of the head stock. I'm going to go with a knockoff body though. I have a Epi and something just doesn't look right with the guitar pictured to be an Epiphone model.
That body screams Epiphone to me in a lot of different languages 😂
I've seen this done. Someone added wood to the headstock to reshape closer to a gibson, added a headstock veneer but it's an Epiphone.
The body on that last guitar looked like a kit body from Firefly or similar.
You got great eyes.
I had to pause it here at 3:30 cause I know for a FACT from that hilarious headstock that this is a fugazi. Also the amount of dust is overkill especially with that newish looking plastic nut, and don't get me started on that that truss rod cover font LOL
Scammers gonna scam
Scammers gonna clam
I went and looked at the “ les Paul” guitar, ad on Facebook marketplace, the headstock was broken above the first 2 tuners closest to the nut which is why I thought the neck was painted. To try to hide it. Also the paint on the back of the neck did not match the gold top.
The guitar as a whole got my spidy senses tingling that somethings were just not right. It was also very light compared to any Gibson les Paul I have ever picked up.
Does the fact that the dot on the 'i' in the headstock logo is touching the 'G' instead of being centered mean anything? Did Gibson ever ship guitars with logos like that?
thanks
Lots of Gibsons have logos like that. I have a 2019 Gibson with a similar logo, I've seen it even on 1950's Gibsons too.
The tuner holes in that hockystick are not in a straight line.
There needs to be some office you can report scammers like this to on reverb...deliberate, methodical scammers like this are the worst of the worst. The absolute bane of the used guitar market!
Not a big Gibson guy, but I love watching you videos for the history and great tips. Well done, sir!
That has everything a chibson les paul would have
thanks
The headstock shape is a dead give away. Without even looking at the body. The wings are asinine.
But the headstock is the only genuine part...!
Hmm, but Trog said the headstock is legit
thanks
Tf u talkin about
That's gotta make you feel a bit silly now, right?!! 😆
Hahahahaha..ya poor bastard!
It's ok, we all make mistakes! Humanity itself is a joke. Laugh with us.... laughing at you! 🤣
Man, I don't know coupling an 80's Les Paul neck to an import body sounds pretty unlikely to me. Seems like a lot of trouble. 🤷♂️
Yeah sounds like mental gymnastics. That whole operation would cost more than a brand new guitar all on its own
He said headstock. The neck is not a les Paul neck. The headstock, and only the headstock, is. Joining a broken headstock to the neck of another guitar with a scarf joint is much less trouble than an entire reneck
Agreed. I think there is probably a simpler explanation to be had.
It's not that much trouble for someone who knows what their doing. a person would simply cut the two parts to match, then glue it and clamp it together. and the nut being changed and the lack of fret nibs back's that up. it's too bad there are people pulling these scams. but there are a lot of dishonest people out there.
Yeah, the nut looks cheap af
Regardless if it's fake or not which it clearly is, why wouldn't you take a minute to clean off that thick layer of dust on the headstock before taking photos?
More convincing for his story to leave it “as found”
@@Wargasm644 That's at *least* a year of dust on there. Not sure how that could've been faked tbh
@@ak47dragunov not saying the dust is fake. It just helps sell his story.
I’d also like to see that bonamassa lp with the firebird headstock, that looks pretty neat!
hey Trogly,thanks for showing me all these cool guitars and showing me how to rewire and work on guitars.To this day im the only 12 year old kid who knows how to fix up a guitar that I know of (and for showing me my dream bass 😄).So I give thanks from Canada and merry Christmas.
thats good. when i was 12 i was rebuilding hydraulics on my first wrecker.
@@FastSloW-qt8xf damn that's cool dude. I'm 14 and I can only just about use a drill
Very educational. I would not have spotted the things you did on the Les Paul. However, I certainly would have steered clear of it because, if it sounds too good to be true then it usually is. Good video mate.
The weird markings by the tuners looks to be finger prints from someone handling it before the paint had fully cured.
How many FRICKIN' LP's must there be???? For Pete's Sake...enough frickin' already.
Great detective work ! The wrinkly stuff on the back of the headstock? Someone used an enamel finish and applied the coats too soon = wrinkling. Non-catalyzed enamels are not used anymore in auto refinish, but when they were, this was the result -solvents sealed in by re-coating too soon, and then when the solvent came out, it would wrinkle.
What gave it away for me was the wrinkly paint on the back of the headstock, the result of putting on a finish too thickly!!
Even if this serial number is period correct on that evidently false 80's gold top, it's in a lower position than they usually are to me.
5:28 as a Floridian I can tell you that’s what it looks like when a guitar is kept in a super humid environment for a very long time without care
some people rout out the pickups to fit bigger ones, sand down and repaint the bodys. headstock swapping is a bit harder.
I've seen the markings on the back of the headstock by the low e tuner before. That is exactly what it looks like when plastic mask is removed while paint is wet and touches the paint. It also looks like a run just below that. I'd bet money I don't have this has been refinished, and poorly at that. It would also explain why the usa stamp looks more full of paint that the serial stamp.
On that fake gold top: you can see some weird, built up paint that became “brain pattern” on the back of the neck / head stock area near the tuning machine and further down the neck, they did not blend the head stock repair.
That tuning bridge looks like it was crooked as in the mount holes were not parallel
The odd marks on the back of the headstock looks like thumb prints in wet gold paint
5:30 those markings happen when you try to dry paint with a hair dryer. I know because I have done it, more than I would like to admit (but not on a guitar)!
What's funny is the value the Gibson name has on an old decrepit guitar that you would think was worthless.
Thanks Trogs! Merry Christmas! Good or Bad you've been great this year.
Hey Trogly, have you ever tried out Reverend Guitars? I’m curious about their Airwave 12 string (all locking tuners stock from the factory, why hasn’t anyone thought of that before?)
The weird markings on the back of the headstock is from putting paint on too thick.
Knowledge is golden 👍
but is it?
This popped up in my market place and I spent 2 hours trying to figure out what this was!
I had actually reached out to try and get more photos and maybe meet. located here in Oklahoma. I eventually passed because it seemed fishy and because I had watched your recent vid with you saying, "if it seems too good to be true, it is".
The weird markings on the back of the headstock are fingerprints in the paint. I think I saw a paint run near it too.
The paint finish wrinkles under the tuner is from someone touches the paint before it was cured and buckling it up.
I noticed in the thumbnail that there were some red flags on that LP imediatly. the truss rod cover with the custom shop on it was a huge red flag. and the open book on real Gibson's will tend to be more pointy and more pronounced. the nut could been replaced and the lack of fret nibs, it could have been refretted but still red flags. and on the body there's a sure fire way to tell if it's a fake. and that where the control knobs are in relation to the bridge and tailpiece. and then looking at the back the red flags were all over the place. the serial number was correct as the numbers go but where is was stamped is very unusual and the made in USA wasn't right. I'm not saying it's impossible but that champagne gold finish on the back of the neck was extremely unusual. I believe it was wise move that person bringing it to your attention.
what it really boils down to is that people in Gibson guitar world have to become better detectives.
This is probably the type of fake that's more likely to be sold and not raise suspicion. I repair guitar and doing this amount of work to pass off for $1000 just seems effort vs payoff is... Disproportionate.
The weird markings on the back of the headstock look like partial fingerprints. Someone touched the paint before it was completely dry.
This was actually listed in my area on market place and when I saw the markings I thought the same thing. fingerprints on a wet coat that were painted over. I spent a few hours trying to figure out what this was before passing.
Just from looking at the photo, it looked to me like it wasn't binding on the body, but the light from the flash from the camera. Though, you would know WAY better than I would. Keep up the great work!
Good lord the ridiculous lengths people go to to make a few bucks 🤷♂️
I think you missed one thing Trogdaddy ,there was some wrinkly thing going on with the paint job on the back by the tuners. Amateur painting. Never factory doing that kind of job.
The headstock back wrinkles look like paint thinner / solvent affected that area. Not drips per se but finished then solvent lifted it.
It's also going to have a "baby picture" on the bench, so that would be missing the silk screen as well. I also got a Les Paul that was 'in the wild' before it should be. My Les Paul 50's Standard was marked on the box "Heritage Cherry", but as you can see by my icon, it's in the color of the Appetite Burst. My guitar was produced just before those models came out, and I haven't really gotten a straight answer as to why it missed the HC part and how it became this color. All I can say is, "Yay, I got a one of a kind". :D I did a video, I have the "baby picture", and I also have documentation from Gibson that states that the color was changed in their records. I even did a little video on it. ua-cam.com/video/PZ8zfbC8tqc/v-deo.html
The head stock was painted over on the back side that's why you see the wrinkle in the paint it looks like they didn't wait for the paint to dry completely when the put the tuners back on and damage the soft paint
Nice catch, Glad these counterfeits were not around when I was buying, selling and appraising guitars. Those days are long gone for me. I occasionally will go with a friend to check out a guitar and have come across some very good fakes some that would will fool 90% of the people out there. I have gotten in a few arguments with sellers who claim a guitar is 100% original and it was not. Some you know are shady when they won't let you check out the cavities so you can see if the electronics are correct. It's just not the high end guitars they fake! No one questions the mid and lower end guitars and there are fakes of those out there as well. I have worked on a few and thought they really dropped the ball on this but after really going over it I realized it was a knock off! A lot of these were bought from sites that all or most of the products come from China. I wonder how many of those are out there that no one bothers to check.
Looks like the back of the headstock was handled when the paint wasn’t fully cured. I paint pedal enclosures sometimes and I’ve had the same looking “ripples” before. Maybe not but that’s what it looks like to me.
I once bought an beat up Les Paul and the seller wrote: not Les Paul with Gibson specs....bought it for 60 bucks and.....it was/is an 3 pick up black Beauty from 58.....my Baby! Okay, it took me 3 years and 2000 bucks to get it right but, man that wood is awesome 👍
Man, I see fakes on eBay all day long being sold as “original “. And clowns bid on them. Are people genuinely that stupid? I guess I’ve answered my own question. 🙄
I mean it seems like a hard skill to master, I don't think it makes you stupid for not knowing it. I do think it isn't smart to bid on something that expensive without being able to verify that it's real
@@mayhapsvenotcaleb4576 it’s really not difficult at all. Watch one UA-cam video and it’ll point out the obvious. Larger pickup rings (Epiphone import size) Les Paul USA have thinner sides. Bridge with flat slot adjustment (cause for alarm) no fret nibs (cause for further investigation), misshapen body contours, Gibson logo on headstock slanted, location of vol/tone buttons and toggle switch. And these are just a few that can be seen immediately. If someone is going to drop over a grand on what they believe is a Gibson, they should at least know a little. Ask for pictures of the back of the pickups , ask for pictures of the rear cavities open so you can see the potentiometers. It’s basically just common sense. But I guess that too has gone the way of the dinosaur. People today have all the information of the world at their fingertips. There’s no excuse for ignorance. And even if you can’t figure any of the above out, ask someone for help. It’s really quite simple.
@@Wargasm644 That's a lot of information for someone to memorize so I don't necessarily think it's as simple as you make it sound, but I don't completely disagree with you. Like I said, if you're dropping $1k on something, you should know how to tell if it's real or ask someone who does.
@@mayhapsvenotcaleb4576 even if you just memorize ONE thing, it’s better than blind faith. Take 20 minutes out of your day to watch a couple videos or read an article. All I’m saying is that it takes minimal effort to educate yourself on this. I research everything I buy. Takes 30 seconds on a cell phone. Every bit of information is at your fingertips. All I’m saying is that if someone is stupid enough to blindly drop a grand or two without even using the resources at their fingertips, then they are idiots. Plain and simple.
I'm not in the market for a real Gibson, I have an Epi with a headstock repair that I will make do with. But I LOVE this channel and learning about the different aspects of verifying fake from real and I love the comment section because there is a lot of knowledge and wisdom on here. When I can afford a Gibson, I wont be flailing about blind, thank you all. This is actually a big part of the vintage guitar FUN isn't it?
That 'XPL' is a Kramer. One of the ones done after they stopped being made by ESP and were made in the same plant as Epiphones, but before Gibson bought the brand. It would have had a big Kramer logo originally.
Kramer had made single cut shapes since the 80s although normally with a Floyd and different control layout but late on they they made these. Gibson have revived the 80s variant over the years.
ESP also made a single cut with a six a side although it was always their head shape. One they went to three a side heads they made the cutaway pointy possibly because of the Gibson/PRS case. Dean also made one, but again their pointer head shape and effectively an Explorer control layout.
The body looks distinctly Epi-phoney. I'm guessing it's a 2000s Epiphone Les Paul with a neck break, and they've grafted a Gibson headstock onto it and painted the neck to hide it.
weird marking under the tuners loooooks like fingerprints from touching wet paint
There was a recent year where Gibson stopped doing Fret Nibs on the standards, I want to say 2014 or 2015. Everyone complained and they went back to the nibs.
EDIT: It was 2014.
It's a shame we don't have more info from the seller. It's possible they're not trying to scam at all but may have inherited someone's project guitar that was never intended for resell. I've seen several guitars over the years where someone had a beloved train wreck that would never be worth fixing to resell but was sentimental enough to get it playing again on a budget. Sometimes these projects are actually "sleeper" players that would surprise you when plugged in and sometimes the story helps to justify asking prices. It may be butt ass ugly and lacking of a back story but I would love to see this one featured mainly because it's just so weird and quirky. Who knows? It might be awesome and worth $1000 after all to the point where the only one's getting scammed are those who would pass on it just because it's an ugly duckling with a yellow nut.
Anyway I think it would be a great WYRON feature and I bet it can be had for much less. Besides aren't you just a little bit curious about what's hiding under the pups and what a black light test would reveal? I've never known you to pass up the chance to feature a spider or two!
I knew it! Modified Epiphone is what I told him when he asked!
Soon as you see the open book cut from behind, you can tell. They never get it right.
This is great! This is the kind of thing that really makes you stand out. Great video!
0:44 guilty as charged. My 50s had 60s knobs 🙄
Back side of this LP? Absolutely beautiful mahogany color - like on my soviet era(1984) Bulgarian acoustic. Equally beautiful is birch(!) plywood painted 10 years ago in China!
That is definitely an off brand guitar that had some slight refinishing to make it look like a Gibson. That marking on the back of the headstock is poly that didn't cure fully before they put those tuners on. Also, note the dot of the eye on the Gibson logo is off center and touching the G, and the Les Paul signature is curved. They probably used water decals and did a horrible job applying them. Nice try!
all gold les pauls are out there. but you can see the headstock repair. n its pretty weird how only the neck is gold
What's the deal with the dot of the "i" in Gibson being off-center on that supposedly real headstock?
The wierd pattern on th back of the headstock is paint drying with moisture present and a run. You see that with rattle can.
For goodness sake, when are ppl gonna learn to DUST OFF LISTED/SOLD ITEMS! It's so easy to use a BRUSH of any kind, an unused wide paintbrush for larger items, a makeup brush for delicate items, etc. People are such slobs!
The goldtop. It may well be unintentional and the seller really doesn't know. If a genuine scam it would be priced 1750+
Good point about the seller. People get stuff, check the numbers and run with it. I doubt they are scammers so much as 3rd party owners. Garage sale, estate clearing etc.
Nvm, I don’t want to be that guy.
God speed Troggers.
Another great video 🎸😎
9:21 That is Miki Gakki, a very famous musical instrument shop located in Osaka, Japan. Established in 1825. That’s right, 1825; 40 years before U.S.Civil War ! They are an authorized Gibson dealer, of course.
www.mikigakki.com/ec/cmShopTopPage1.html
What are your turn around times for answers?
The markings on the tuner look like finger prints in the paint
the back of the headstock was poorly painted thats what the crinkles were. I'm a painter and can say without a doubt that was the paint reacting
As dusty as the guitar looks means it hasn’t been played in years and if it was in a basement it could have moisture damage. It’s my dream to go to a yard sale and some old guy is selling his sons les Paul for a 100bucks so the fact it’s been sitting around is appealing but non musicians don’t know anything about reverb.
FYI 2014-2015 Gibson’s do not have nibs. I REPEAT, THEY DO NOT HAVE NIBS. Don’t go based off of "no nibs." There are plenty of other ways to tell the difference between a fake and a real Gibson.
The weird marking looks like finger prints on tacky paint
Looks like the paint wrinkled from some sort of solvent on the back of the headstock.
Hah. I saw this exact guitar on craigslist last week. It felt pretty scammy to me.
@1:56 oh trogly .... “General enquiry fee $10.00 - example did Gibson make any purple guitars ? “ 🤦♂️
Haha I saw that Les Paul with the missing logo and thought about sending it to you!
How much does a repair (crack in neck or headstock) generally devalue a Les Paul Standard? In my case I'm looking at a 2003 LP Std. with a headstock repair but its painted and hard to see the actual damage so I don't know how well the repair was done.
The pots were cockeyed and in the wrong spots too.
Great job on the forensic work
Why are Les Paul XR's called extended range? They have 6 strings and 22 frets. Does it mean something different?
Not even just the horn in the cut away area, but the left side of the guitar...it looks lop sided...one side is way fatter and curvy and the other side is flat/it looks offset maybe...like, it just looks really wrong
the dot above the i letter on the Gibson logo tells it all...
Playing at a bar for drunks? Gibson headstock = Gibson guitar.
Looks like a poor respray to me, with paint crinkle on the back of the headstock.