@@pavlegrebenarevic382 I mean I'm an Itachi fan but even I get that that's a dumb statement to make when Sasuke has the hax versions of Itachi's best abilities (Amaterasu, with control that Itachi didn't have, and a perfect Susano) that are pretty much spammable because he has the EMS and Naruto...literally fought and drew with Sasuke when he had those abilities *and* had just taken the tailed beasts...and all of that *before* The Last and Boruto where Naruto and Sasuke jumped massively up the power curve. Even if you take them as they are in Boruto now post-Isshiki (Sasuke no Rinnegan, Naruto no Kurama), that's almost certainly a win for the two protags. The only problematic one in that scenario is weirdly Naruto's matchup and specifically vs Tsukuyomi - the loss of Kurama already hurts him for this fight even if he still has strengths like Sage mode and (potentially) the different nature releases he got back in the war arc, but he doesn't have a real answer to that absurd a level of genjutsu from Itachi aside from just blitzing him before Itachi has a chance to react. Sasuke, on the other hand, still has EMS, all of his adult level of training and only lost the Rinnegan that would've made the fight a massive beatdown - it's just a regular beatdown instead. lol
There's a narrative argument you didn't mention but adds to how badly Hiruzen loses. Itachi came back to the village after he died to make sure Danzo wouldn't pull shit. Itachi felt that returning one time just to flex was equivalent to Hiruzen being in the village 24/7
@@167kinggam its a pretty valid interpretation if he was worried about danzo he had options but he clearly decided that one appearance was good enough, on top of the fact that at that time he was essentially if not definitely the strongest character on screen its a very valid interpretation. It would be headcannon if I said that it was true im just saying thats one way you can interpret what happened
I agree with the whole video except for the bringer of darkness genjutsu point, since it was specifically developed to counter the sharingan. While I don't think it would work on Itachi it isn't accurate to say it wouldn't work on uchiha
@@Piano_improvisations you mean tobirama ? Is he bigoted or his he war weary from having fought them for most of his and his clans life ? Quite a number of senju were slain by Uchiha ( and vice-versa) besides tobirama only wanted to kill Sasuke when Sasuke Saud he wanted to destroy the village even then he was rather calm the entire conversation when him
@Draco 🌙 the description in the data books states it puts you in eternal darkness, it pretty much says it makes your eyes useless. The data book description heavily implies its for that reason. Regardless itachi would neg the genjutsu anyways. Genjutsu reversal is a thing if you're better than the caster at genjutsu which itachi would be better than hiruzen at
My only disagreement is that it's unfair to say there's no point in speaking about hiruzen in his prime since its an unknown amount of strength increase, but also talk about a "healthy" itachi that as far as I know there is essentially no known way of knowing what that is aside from talking about edo at which point we should at least talk about edo hiruzens feats.
The question is, was Edo Hiruzen even in his prime body? He still has the shorter stature and face he had just before death. So it's entirely possible Edo Hiruzen is just a revived version of his Part 1 self
@@twistedvtuber9894 the main point in the Orochimaru fight is that Hiruzen doesn't have as much chakra as he used to, he also says that his staff felt heavier. The chakra problem doesn't happen to edo tensei revived and in the war Hiruzen uses the staff very impressively, though he still would be somewhat nerfed due to being an edo. This last point would be the same with edo Itachi, so technically neither of them were at his prime, but were still stronger than they were before death
The problem with that is that edo Hiruzen was still an old man. So we still don’t know what young Hiruzen from seeing him in the war arc. However edo itachi is just itachi without his sickness and nerfed by 20%
I mean technically the tenseigan is way better than the Sharigan variants and is arguably a bigger boost than the normal Rinnegan with the tenseigan also giving you truth seeker orbs and a cloak Soo yeah
Meanwhile in boruto it’s more focused on the byuakugan and other new dojutsu which is one of the main reasons I love where they’re going with the overkill power scaling lmao
My two push backs. Guy and hashirama were known for fighting Uchiha without looking at there eyes, Minato surpassed this by being able to tell the comple make up of a jutsu from seeing it one time. Hiruzen surpasses even that by being able to tell what jutsu someone is gonna do just by the hand signs, i.e before they've even launched it. He also has the edo feat where he matches justu instead of using the counter justu, and is known for being able to produce elemental jutsu that are stronger with less chakra.
@@jamerson4967 opportunity isn't an excuse. As often as Tobirama was using Teleportation when he didn't have his emotions and mind restricted and Hashirama constantly using more then just Deep Forrest Emergence when he was also not restricted the same way that's a no go. I chop that up to Orochimaru not knowing how to really utilize them in that state the same way he also didn't know how to really use the Kazekage and Kabuto didn't really understand how to use Nagato's abilities despite having a superior version of Edo Tensei over Orochimaru's version.
5:57 Hiruzen most of the time was acting out of character even his staff is like "Hey you ok this isn't like you at all" so by the time he went all out he was exhausted
Regardless, Hiruzen and Orochi are relative to each other. Itachi straight up beat Orochimaru with a single glance...when he was 14. Itachi literally made Orochi leave the Akatsuki. Meaning 14yr old Itachi beats Old Hiruzen. That's just using the facts displayed in the show.
Both Orochimaru and Hiruzan were holding back. So calm down people, the story clearly shows both of them holding back, because they both still care for each other
@@Faustained 1. No they are not the moment Orochimaru fought a serious Hiruzen he got disarmed easily 2. Orochimaru was not at his strongest there and Itachi didn't grow much
@Denavio Leeks actually we kind of due. Back during the Flash Backs when Minato was dealing with Obito and Kurama we see Hiruzen also trying to deal with Kurama until Minato was able to do something. Hiruzen was far younger and stronger during that time period yet at the same time the best he could do as a Hokage was push Kurama out of the village. Him doing that tho impressive didn't do any type of Damage to Kurama at all. Now let's go back to when Hiruzen and Orochimaru fought. Orochimaru said verbatim that if Hiruzen was just 10 years younger he would've beaten him. The version of Hiruzen I used is far younger then that by at least 20years. With that as a basis if that 40ish year old Hiruzen struggled to Push Kurama out of the village while some like Itachi can flat out control it without problem or risk when even Sasuke pre absorbed Orochimaru was strong enough to suppress Half of Kurama in Naruto with Base Sharingan alone yet he's still weaker then Itachi Hiruzen isn't doing anything to Itachi.
@@kaimobley5324 Obito attacked the village 12 years before Orochimaru did not at least 20 lol. Naruto was born thay day. This is like the 1st thing you are told when watching/reading Naruto
@@kaimobley5324 hiruzen is 68-69 when he fought orochimaru cause orochimaru, tsunade and jiraiya are in their 50s. Hiruzen being 10 years younger at 58-59 would still be far out of his prime but still much stronger than orochimaru who is 50-51 when he fought hiruzen
Hiruzen: Struggles for an hour to keep up with Orochimaru and then just kills himself because he's losing Itachi: points his finger at Orochimaru without even facing him and dominates him so completely that Orochimaru simply gives up on the idea of ever being able to make Itachi do anything he doesn't want to.
You’re so wrong I don’t even know where to begin. If you read the manga you’ll know that in the tug of war with the death seal went on for something crazy like 20 hours. Showing hiruzens endurance and chakra levels even as an old man. And this was after hiruzen fought the 1st and 2nd while fighting orochimaru. Furthermore orochimaru stated that he waited 10plus years for hiruzen to get old. Cuz he know he couldn’t take the leaf with him in his prime.
@@skroochi1901 the manga must have been over exaggerated you're telling me Naruto chased Gara for 20 hours you got to be kidding me ain't no f****** way
@@sansboi1760 it was something closer to 10 than 20 from what I remember. But do you think a village scale attack lasts for an hour or something lol? Battles of that scale last a long time.
@@skroochi1901And what? Fact is a fact, Itachi one tapped Orochimaru while Hiruzen lost to him. Give him every benefit of the doubt and he still scales below Orochimaru, which was beaten at his strongest by a sick and blind Itachi with barely any chakra left.
@@MajorTom4 Itachi defeating orochimaru was plot armor and makes nonsense if You think about it Orochimaru va Itachi Strength: orochimaru Speed: orochimaru Durability: orochimaru Endurance: orochimaru Agility: Itachi Abilities: Itachi Hax: Itachi Ninjutsu: orochimaru Taijutsu: Itachi Genjutsu: Itachi Iq: orochimaru Battle iq: Itachi Weapons: Itachi Experience: orochimaru As You can see it's a closer fight than You think, i'm sure that if orochimaru takes care of avoiding genjutsu he could hold his own against Itachi or even defeat him, Amaterasu won't work since orochimaru can throw a new egg of himself and totsuka blade can work, but Itachi won't use the susanoo since the begining, by the time he uses it he will already be tired and if orochimaru does not underestimate him he can avoid it too, so also old hiruzen could defeat Itachi since old hiruzen is at the same level of orochimaru
Someone tried to convince me that if Boruto got Momoshiki's rinnegan abilities, he would be a fanfic character. I pointed to Itachi: the original Naruto custom fanfic character. And most people love this man.
Where is stated that Itachi's Amaterasu spawns directly on the target, unlike Sasuke's? Because his Sasuke fight contradicts this, when Sasuke ran and Itachi missed the Amaterasu a few times.
It’s common knowledge atp that both Sasuke and Itachi fought differently. Itachi could do everything Sasuke could do with Amaterasu but shape it. Itachi also stated the Sharingan could access chakra meaning he knew exactly when Sasuke would prepare a jutsu.
@@Stolas9 Amaterasu is stated to spawn instantly and within the users sight. Sasuke could do the same though Itachi’s fire is stated to burn hotter and on the novels was able to produce blue flames. Not sure where the guy got his info
@@rkvlegacy9206 thr blue flames refers to itachis normal fire justu not amteratsu also amteratsu doesn't spawn it is stated to burn everything in sight two very different things now sasuke has been stated to be way better than itachi in terms of using amteratsu ans there was not a single stated difference between their two versions
its really weird when looking at itachi because we don't really know how his gen justsu will interact with different opponents. its a bit of a non factor when doing versus with other uchiha since most of the other high tier Uchiha don't incorporate gen justsu into their fighting much at all. even Sasuke uses it sparingly in comparison. The fact that it was effective on everyone he used it on suggests to me that without specific hacks, you're pretty much fucked if he catches you in a gen jutsu.
I don't know why everyone says that most of the Uchiha are resistant to his genjutsu I know Kakashi's not a Uchiha but he did have a Sharingan for years and he has dealt with genjutsu users in the past and yet Itachi in a matter of a nanosecond stomped him.
Itachi was this strong without hashirama cells/no EMs/ and ninja aids💯💯💯💯it’s just mind blowing that he’s one of the few without those type of hacks in this show and he’s still like top 10 even during the war
@@z.e.d4037 name 9 more people during the war and I guarantee most would be either 10 tailed jinjuricki and copies of the same person ie madera/10 tailed madera
I honestly think it would be cool if prime Hiruzen nearly or flat out equaled Hashirama. It could even have a head cannon explanation such as Hiruzen being able to use the gates. But the older he got the less and less he could use the gates until he couldn't whatsoever.
Orochimaru underestimated Itachi and paid for it. MS requires a ton of Chakra to maintain and utilize, as we've seen. So if Itachi went there, if he didn't get rid of Hiruzen quick enough, that's game. Factor his sickly constitution due to illness, and that substantially limits him in the long haul. He's fighting a top tier hokage. Dude didn't become hokage and maintain his prestigious reputation playing by with himself. Orochimaru is a weakness of Hiruzen because he saw him as a son and it's been established that it affected him before he left the village and afterwards. It's a source of his greatest shame. Hiruzen also had to fight a slighter lower leveled first and second hokage, both apparently been in his life and as mentors, while he's out of his prime and STILL handled business. Itachi blows hotter fire release? The Sarutobi clan is known for expert proficiency in fire release as well. Hiruzen, despite being out of prime, was apparently regarded as the most powerful hokage during his time. Dude also has access to every ninjutsu of the village that aint a kekkai genkai or hiden. He can use all 5 nature transformations and during his revival, we saw how poweful his nature release efforts are when he made 5 shadow clones and had them basically nuke the ten tails. I'm not saying that Itachi couldn't beat Hiruzen with MS but like let's not act like he wouldn't have to work for it, assuming it doesn't turn into a draw. Dude grew up with Uchiha and was definitely intending to lead the spear against the Uchiha, who are well known for their genjutsu prowess, if they didn't calm tf down when they were plotting to rebel. I wouldn't paint it like some sort of high dif like you're flexing it to be.
Orochimaru tried surprise attacking Itachi… lost. Orochimaru tried taking advantage of a no chakra Sasuke and a quite literally dying Itachi… lost. He underestimated him twice??? If someone is even relative to someone, and they attack their opponent the way Orochimaru did then there would still be a fight to display their relativity. INSTEAD Oro literally admitted inferiority to Itachi, and fled the Akatsuki. But Orochimaru fighting Hiruzen was considered a not even a match for him but simply a fun past time. What are we missing here lol
Orochimaru tried surprise attacking Itachi… lost. Orochimaru tried taking advantage of a no chakra Sasuke and a quite literally dying Itachi… lost. He underestimated him twice??? If someone is even relative to someone, and they attack their opponent the way Orochimaru did then there would still be a fight to display their relativity. INSTEAD Oro literally admitted inferiority to Itachi, and fled the Akatsuki. But Orochimaru fighting Hiruzen was considered a not even a match for him but simply a fun past time. What are we missing here lol
@@SuperEvilTurkey I'm saying it wouldn't be some high dif loss like he's claiming it to be. Like I said. In regards to the Sasuke manifesting thing? The yata mirror and that genjtusu sword capped Orochimaru. He had no answer for it. He was screwed before he started. In the fight with Sarutobi, I explained what I meant. So if you didn't read it, say that.
@@SuperEvilTurkey yes espically when u take into account only reason near dead itachi wasn't over powered was because he had a shield that literally negates all attacks and 2 he had a one show sword
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif that sword despite sealing whatever it pierces still cut off literally all but one head of Orochimaru’s strongest jutsu. Only reason why the one wasn’t was because he needed to seal Orochimaru. The shield didn’t really do anything. 8 headed hydra was coiled around his Susano, and his shield was not shown deflecting that. You see Itachi’s Susano struggle free that’s it. It was another display of power from Itachi hax or no. Now if you wanna say Susano is OP then you’d be right. Is totsuka blade op? Yes. But you’re misrepresenting the actual scene itself by saying Yata mirror played any role and by implying that he only won because of the totsuka blade.
In my opinion Itachi is one of the most Unique, Authentic and Influential characters from the series. The thing that people underestimate about Itachi fights/encounters, isn't just his power, (it's mainly writters or Kishimoto's fault for making Itachi seem or to look very powerful throughout the series) but how smart and intelligent he is during various situations, he never, ever underestimates his opponents because of his composure and his way of being, the level of thinking he's on honestly dwars most people in the series, with only people like Minato and Shikaku comparable with him. More precisly, Itachi isn't just an ordinary Shinobi also, he pretty much knows and he's also aware that all strong opponents have weaknesses (including himself), and he specializes in finding those "weaknesses" and exploiting them ("*Even the strongest of opponents always has a weakness*" - Uchiha Itachi) because he's that type of character who can exceed almost any expectations. Itachi is very unique and authentic, especially in the factor of facing various encounters approach, his unpredictability in his way of fighting style approach it's his key factor in all of his encounters. Being blind or nearly blind has never slowed him down (especially when he's pretty much serious, but that's the point, he has never go all out against anyone during the series.) Itachi it's that type of character who can exceed almost any expectations. (at least that's what we were shown in the anime by the creator Masashi Kishimoto). Moral of the story, never underestimate Itachi. He did more sick then most healthy ninjas do in their entire life. In my opinion No One should underestimate such an unpredictable Shinobi like Itachi, even Madara (I won't say that Itachi can beat him, but at least he will be pretty much able to put a decent fight that Madara will also be impressed in my opinion). Also how can some of you guys even consider that Totsuka Blade it's slow when no such speed feat has been shown through the Shippuden that state it that it is slow? All of you are assuming it to be slow it may not be the case... Its not that the sword is unavoidable but it clearly has a very long range and is a very long blade. If you look at the manga, Naruto, Bee and Itachi are all relatively small from Nagato's point of view, and you can see the Totsuka Blade extending all the way from Itachi, piercing through Nagato, and still managing to nearly pop out toward the reader out of the page. I would say its fast because Kabuto coudldn't even react to it, and its not like Nagato was completely immobile to the point that he couldn't sidestep the blade. Also, Kabuto controlling people from far away is never stated to inhibit the Edos' reaction speed in any way. Being controlled by someone thousands of miles away didn't stop the Third Raikage from dodging KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken. And as for Orochimaru, the sword struck him in between syllables of a word during his speech. I think that that is pretty fast. Pair the Totuska Blade with a good feint and its lethal because its ethereal, meaning it can pierce through any object. If the sword didn't live up to its reputation then Orochimaru wouldn't seek it out. People need to stop downplaying Itachi and denying the very clear speed feats of Totsuka. There is no room for interpretations here. The advantage of being an Uchiha, especially for Itachi and Madara, is that during an encounter against them, they always have a counter because of their unpredictable way of fighting factor, they don't run out of options or techniques, they almost always have a counter in their arsenal, even forbidden jutsus seems irrellevant against them, only a few Uchihas know a certain way to approach the situation with a certain and effective technique, that's why is hard/difficult to fight against them in my opinion. ☯️ 🤷♂️ Here are the things that make Itachi so formidable. Tsukuyomi - A genjutsu so powerful that you literally can't escape it unless you have the same blood as Itachi, as stated by Itachi himself and proven later by Sasuke, or you're a jinchuriki. Jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu but it hasn't been proven, but when Bee was fighting Edo Nagato and Itachi with Naruto, he said to watch out for Tsukuyomi explicitly. Literally 99% of all opponents fighting Itachi have no way of stopping Tsukuyomi. You could have the power to split the planet in half and it wouldn't matter. (Want to know why? - Kakashi pretty much state it in the actual anime and manga that Tsukuyomi it's such a dangerous Genjutsu Technique because it happen in a instant, even if you realize that you are trapped in the Tsukuyomi, it will be too late, because Itachi could approach you during that time in the real world (or he can use an Explosive Clone to approach you without you even realizing it in time and he can pretty much finish you before you can even realize, - 72 hours in Tsukuyomi realm means 1 second or a couple of seconds in the real world. Tsukuyomi can't be broken, when used to it's fullest.) The Sword of Totsuka and Yata Mirror - The Susanoo itself is a near invincible defense but these two weapons take it to the next step. The Sword of Totsuka can seal "anything" if it even touches it. It's completely OP. It's hard to fight a guy that can seal you away if his sword even touches you. The Yata Mirror is even a bigger deal in my opinion. It doesn't block attacks, it's "negates" them. You could throw an Amaterasu covered Bijuu bomb at Itachi and the Yata mirror will negate it, making it so the Susanoo doesn't even need to take a blow. You could punch the Yata mirror and the force will completely be negated. His biggest strength of all: tactical intelligence - Itachi always outsmarts and plans for everything because the plot demands it. You're physically strong? Itachi is already 2 steps ahead of you knowing exactly what to do. You're extremely fast? Again, 2 steps. You're going to try and outlast Itachi in a fight? Good luck. To add to this, some of the 3 most powerful techniques in the verse are due to his intelligence and planning ability; Izanami, Izanagi, and Kotoamatsukami. Izanami - A forbbiden genjutsu technique that allows you to alter someone's destiny. Impossible to break out of even if you know you're in a genjutsu without complying with the users set destiny for you. Even someone like Bee, a perfect Jinchuriki, can't escape Izanami unless he does what Itachi wants him to. Izanagi - You somehow gained an advantage over Itachi? He makes it so that advantage never happened. Kotoamatsukami - Though Shisui's technique, Itachi has his eye which effectively makes it his weapon. A genjutsu so powerful that the person it's cast on doesn't even know they're under a genjutsu. Like the Tsukuyomi, completely OP. To add to all of this, Itachi is pretty good at hand to hand combat, is great with shuriken, is extremely fast, is great with regular fire techniques, is slippery and unpredictable, and has the extremely dangerous and fast Genjutsu style of fighting approach that can caught you off guard almost at any time. With all of these things considered you've got one dangerous ninja. Lastly but not least Kishimoto made sure that Itachi was seen as someone special and he did an incredible job in establishing that in the story. When Itachi Uchiha awakened his Susano'o, he was seen wielding legendary weapons of the Totsuka Blade and the Yata Mirror. The former allowed Itachi to seal anyone he pierced in a world of genjutsu forever, while the latter gave him the ability to deflect any and all attacks thrown towards him, regardless of whether they were physical or spiritual in nature. According to Zetsu (who was around since the period of Kaguya time era until the present of Naruto) he state it in the anime and also in the manga that these weapons, when combined with his Susano'o, made Itachi Invincible. This is why Kishimoto basically had to give him a handicap: Naruto AIDS. 🤷♂️ ☯️
Kcm2 edo Minato still blitz'z healthy itachi. Perfect sage Minato can probably blitz him as well, imo Minato 'not being very good' as a perfect sage is the equivalent of itachis 'aids' Also I firmly believe that obito is also objectively stronger than itachi. Tsukuyomi won't work on obito, neither will amaterasu. Totsuka blade won't work as obito can simply kamui out of it . Nothing in itachis kit will work on obito aside from izanagi/izanami, and I think we can all agree obito knows both of those tricks as well. He literally used one against konan. And that's just obito with 1 MS. Imagine DMS obito/tobi. He's unstoppable. Only 6 paths can beat dms obito IMO. I'm not sure how dms madara scales to dms obito
@@shroud4269 Stop being delusional, as if you can actually predict their encounters, they all have an almost real chance of winning against each other. Minato's victory over Itachi is not guaranteed, Your logic is really irrelevant:🤦♂️ you are too biased towards Obito, how can you say that any technique used by Itachi would be ineffective, (the same thing can be said about Obito, because Itachi isn't just any ordinary Shinobi either) so stop with these aberrations, you are not Kishimoto in person to say what technique would work and which technique would not work against the other.🤦♂️ What many have forgotten and especially you forgot, is the very unpredictable factor of Itachi's fighting style approach, the way Itachi could beat Obito in my opinion is as follows: The Explosive Clone Tactic of Itachi, (he use this in Part 1 against Kakashi and Kurenai) which will be totally in character for him and obviously it won't kill Obito but definitely will damage him. I'll give you an exemple that was happening also in the anime itself: Remember that in the confrontation between Obito and Konan, Obito noticed Konan's explosive papers and said that he could react to them in time, cancel sucking and use Kamui to face through the explosion, but it didn't work and he was got caught in the explosion and he still was damaged after that. In Itachi's case he wouldn't notice that it's a clone until it's too late, and he already would get hit by the explosion of Itachi's Clone. Still I don't think that Obito will die only from that, I mean that will be very embarrassing lmao... xD but getting damaged? 100%. And we know Itachi that in character, If the fight is serious, he doesn't messing around. So after the explosion, he will use the moment/momentum while Obito is damaged, is surprised, is stunned, Itachi will immediately rush him and stab him, set him on fire or etc... Also another way Itachi could win is with his Tsukuyomi in my opinion. Yes yes, hear me out, Itachi make a clone, uses Tsukuyomi on Obito and controls the time in the way that he trapped Kakashi during the Part 1 in their encounter, (Tsukuyomi 1 second, but in Kakashi's mind perception that second lasted 72 hours, that will mean 3 full days) So the moment Itachi hits Obito with the Tsukuyomi, and Obito just thinks of to break the Tsukuyomi, Itachi's clone already killed Obito, because they will just stand there, and Itachi has full control on time in the Tsukuyomi Nightmare Realm. So yes, it's pretty much possible. I know that is unfair and disgusting for all of you Obito's bias fans. xD But it'a a power and a factor of the Tsukuyomi that people underestimate and keep forgeting about. xD 🤷♂️
@@DavidLucian obito with his base sharingan is literally kotoamatsukami level and completely hypnotized a KAGE. Ninjutsu doesn't work on him because of kamui. Totsuka blade WILL NOT work on him. He will KAMUI OUT OF it. Obito is just as intelligent as itachi and has the same battle-wisdom as madara. Yata mirror won't do anything bc obito doesn't really even use ninjutsu like that. We know that itachi has stamina problems and obito has god level healing. He took a chicori directly to the heart and it did nothing. What will itachi do? His fire style won't work. His shuriken jutsu won't work. His only hope is mixing genjutsu and susanoo with totsuka blade or izanagi/izanami to trick obito into getting sealed. And it's more than HIGHLY likely that obitos genjutsu is even better than itachis. And obito can literally kamui himself out of being sealed. Look back to the kage summit. Obito kamui'd not only himself, but Sasuke out of a boxed in particle style with such finesse, the tsuchikage himself didn't even notice it. Itachi isn't winning dude get over it.
@@shroud4269 Again... Try the escape the Izanami loop of your pathetic delusional bias stupidity thinking. Wake up boy, the same thing can be said about Itachi, so the mention of your character is irrelevant. Itachi isn't just any ordinary Shinobi either. Kishimoto made sure that Itachi was seen as someone special and he did an incredible job in establishing that in the story. You underestimate Itachi and you downplay Itachi too much, and you don't even know how Tsukuyomi Nightmare Realm works. Their encounter could go either way, but for me Itachi has slightly better chances of winning because of his calmness, intelligence and battle IQ experience. If you remember in the first part when Itachi and Kakashi faced off, although Kakashi could see Itachi's clone, (thanks to the Sharingan) he didn't know that Itachi's clones could explode, so he caught him by surprise. Itachi's clones are legendary, unpredictable and unique, they can always catch you by surprise even in the smallest of seconds. Also, how can you leave out the fact that Itachi has an unpredictable way of fighting style approach and the forbidden Izanami technique, which is made to combat abusive Izanagi users, Itachi is very unique and authentic, especially in the factor of facing various encounters approach, his unpredictability in his way of fighting style approach it's his key factor in all of his encounters. You need to stop downplaying Itachi's way of fighting style approach, in my opinion their encounter could go either way, both of them can win against each other If you ask me. What many have forgotten is the very unpredictable factor of Itachi's fighting style: the way Itachi could beat Obito in my opinion is as follows: The Explosive Clone Tactic: Obito absorbs a clone and gets wrecked from both sides. Itachi's clone feints are legendary and unique, his clones can also explode, which we've seen from the Konan battle can be a problem for Obito to defend against. Now, if Obito can make full use of the Rinnegan, things could be different, but by his own admission, he was barely able to handle even a single Rinnegan's power, so it's unlikely he could use the full arsenal that he never showed. Obito can't fight without physical contact. Having knowledge of Izanami doesn't prevent it from happening (it is the most sublte jutsu we've ever seen), because any kind of sensation they share can be set as the anchor and there is no way of knowing which. All Obito can do is to either avoid all kinds of physical contact, and he can't fight like that, or he can just try to refrain from repeating an action more than once which is near impossible with his one trick pony skillset. Here are the things that make him so formidable. Tsukuyomi - A genjutsu so powerful that you literally can't escape it unless you have the same blood as Itachi, as stated by Itachi himself and proven later by Sasuke, or you're a jinchuriki. Jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu but it hasn't been proven, but when Bee was fighting Edo Nagato and Itachi with Naruto, he said to watch out for Tsukuyomi explicitly. Literally 99% of all opponents fighting Itachi have no way of stopping Tsukuyomi. You could have the power to split the planet in half and it wouldn't matter. (Want to know why? - Kakashi pretty much state it in the actual anime and manga that Tsukuyomi it's such a dangerous Genjutsu Technique because it happen in a instant, even if you realize that you are trapped in the Tsukuyomi, it will be too late, because Itachi could approach you (or his Explosive Clone) during that time in the real world and he can finish you before you can even realize, - 72 hours in Tsukuyomi realm means 1 second or a couple of seconds in the real world. Tsukuyomi can't be broken, when used to it's fullest.)Having knowledge about the Tsukuyomi doesn't prevent it the possibility from happening or working on another Uchiha, because Tsukuyomi as Kakashi state it, it's such a dangerous Ocular Technique because if you are caught in that Realm, it happen in an instant, (72 hours - 3 full days in that realm means a secound or a couple of seconds in the real world) even If you managed to break it out somehow, it will be too late, because the Itachi (or Itachi's Explosive Clone) could approach you in the real world until that time when you are caught in that Specific Nightmare Realm and he can damage or even kill you. The Sword of Totsuka and Yata Mirror - The Susanoo itself is a near invincible defense but these two weapons take it to the next step. The Sword of Totsuka can seal "anything" if it even touches it. It's completely OP. It's hard to fight a guy that can seal you away if his sword even touches you. The Yata Mirror is even a bigger deal in my opinion. It doesn't block attacks, it's "negates" them. You could throw an Amaterasu covered Bijuu bomb at Itachi and the Yata mirror will negate it, making it so the Susanoo doesn't even need to take a blow. You could punch the Yata mirror and the force will completely be negated. His biggest strength of all: tactical intelligence - Itachi always outsmarts and plans for everything because the plot demands it. You're physically strong? Itachi is already 2 steps ahead of you knowing exactly what to do. You're extremely fast? Again, 2 steps. You're going to try and outlast Itachi in a fight? Good luck. To add to this, some of the 3 most powerful techniques in the verse are due to his intelligence and planning ability; Izanami, Izanagi, and Kotoamatsukami. Izanami - A forbbiden genjutsu technique that allows you to alter someone's destiny. Impossible to break out of even if you know you're in a genjutsu without complying with the users set destiny for you. Even someone like Bee, a perfect Jinchuriki, can't escape Izanami unless he does what Itachi wants him to. Izanagi - You somehow gained an advantage over Itachi? He makes it so that advantage never happened. Kotoamatsukami - Though Shisui's technique, Itachi has his eye which effectively makes it his weapon. A genjutsu so powerful that the person it's cast on doesn't even know they're under a genjutsu. Like the Tsukuyomi, completely OP. To add to all of this, Itachi is pretty good/exceptional at hand to hand combat, is great with shuriken, is extremely fast, is great with regular fire techniques, is slippery and unpredictable, and has the extremely dangerous and fast Genjutsu style of fighting approach that can caught you off guard almost at any time, even If the opposite opponent is an Uchiha. With all of these things considered you've got one dangerous ninja. This is why Kishimoto basically had to give him a handicap: Naruto AIDS.🤷♂️ That's the problem with you, you're only keeping underestimate such an unpredictable Shinobi like Itachi, you're too blinded to admit it that their encounter will be unpredictable, keep downplaying Itachi like as if only your opinion mattered mister Kishimoto wannabe. xD 🤦♂️
@@DavidLucian youre an idiot lol. You ignore power scaling and established feats and lore within the show for your semantical bullshit. Give me a scenario where itachi will beat obito in a field 1v1 that actually makes sense and is plausible within the bounds of what each character can do. I've given multiple examples of things that won't work on obito i.e fire style, shuriken jutsu etc. It's been stated multiple times within the show that genjutsu won't work on someone whos own skills with genjutsu surpass your own. Sasuke literally broke tsukuyomi and shocked itachi. You really think obito can't break tsukuyomi as well? You're an idiot if you think he can't. Amaterasu literally doesn't WORK ON HIM. he literally got hit by amaterasu unsuspectingly from Sasuke after the itachi battle and he completely survived it. Using MS abilities takes a huge stamina toll on itachi. He won't survive in a prolonged battle with obito. As I said before and for some odd reason you refuse to accept - the only way itachi has a chance of beating obito is by combining susanoo and totsuka blade with izanagi or izanami. That's IT. accept fucking reality. You sleep on obito in order to wank itachi and it's cringe. Madara is also objectively stronger than itachi and beats him in ALL scenarios. Itachi is 3rd place just ACCEPT IT.
@@Faustained itachi prime wouldve been killed by kabuto the first time he was sliced in half or impaled and kabuto also was holding back hoping to reprogram itachi and absorb sasuke. Kabuto>itachi
thank you , i feel like it's swag's fault that itachi gets so much downplay regarding his stamina , even though he fought sasuke until sasuke ran outta chakra & he still had enough to take down orochimaru's strongest jutsu lol , never seen anyone say sasuke had stamina issues though ???
And all this while Itachi tired himself out on purpose, so it looks like he's actually trying. Itachi's stamina is actually pretty good, even in his weakest state.
THANK YOU. Dying Itachi’s stamina out lasted Sasuke’s, and that dude’s stamina is pretty decent. Ticks me when everyone looks at an Itachi vs to say “Yeah, but low stamina. He’d get outlasted.” Like, *BOI*
@accidental madness You mean when he had a RinneSharingan and he was teleporting between dimensions fighting Aliens that devour entire worlds for Chakra? He's not shooting a fireball and running out of Chakra.. he's literally using the Strongest Dojutsu in the series to fight beings with incalculable chakra reserves.
@@Done4good-s7w tbf him having lower stamina is heavily debatable since edos as shown don't have infinite chakra nor stamina just insane ammounts of regen along with a nerf so the question is not if he cab do it but how many times also he pulled that feat off fairly casually
4:58 eh that depends because Orochimaru was doing a lot of big number techniques for someone holding back. Especially when he essentially pulled out his trump car against Hiruzen
@@codbeast914 probably couldn't use if he was already getting his arms stolen and he was cocky.He wasn't fighting hiruzen while the edo fought and on top he didn't know he was getting was gonna get soul tugged.And I don't think going in hydra would of changed anything even if he did.After hiruzen died he didn't have any reason to use it either.
Im sure if there was more showings of hiruzen in his heyday it’d be an easier narrative to swallow. ppl just see stuff like beeg wood hands and the six paths kurama avatar and coom
I do too. It's pretty clear that Kishimoto intended Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the beginning. I'm not sure what, if anything, changed his mind.
Hashirama and Madara are probably out of the question just because of narrative reasons but realistically a Hiruzen could have been stronger than every other ninja but we have make assumptions. Some are easier to make like him being physically more capable (he's literally shown as a hunched shrinking old man.) Some assumptions are harder though like could he do FTG or sage mode?
I'm agreeing with you six. But all of Itachi encounters with orichimaru, he has lost the soul of his arms and that make him think that he needed Sasuke body. hiruzen fought with orichimaru in his best shape. You not mentioning this disappointed me. 😭😭
I agree Sick Itachi > Old Hiruzen but the Hiruzen downplay is horrendous. And I don't think 3T Itachi scales over Orochimaru as directly as you made it seem. Oro was caught off guard by the strength of the genjutsu and he went to Itachi on a spur of the moment so no Edo Tensei that he used against Hiruzen. Ik Oro was shook but he probably assumed Itachi would use Mangekyo if he tried to seriously fight, seeing as Oro was even familiar w Rinnegan.
Yet despite knowing all that, Orochimaru, after losing to Itachi the first time literally admits inferiority to him. Knowing the jutsu he knows he still never pursued Itachi again until Itachi was literally knocking on death’s door.
@@SuperEvilTurkey Did you not read my full comment bro? I already addressed that -- Orochimaru logically would have feared Mangekyou and I think we all agree MS Itachi > Orochimaru. I'm just saying as far as 3T Itachi to Oro scaling, it's pretty contentious, definitely not enough to say for sure that 3T is stronger than Oro
@@SRVaris Yeah it was never confirmed but heavily implied -- Oro had independent knowledge of the rinnegan so it would follow that he also knows about MS. Plus there are other smaller supporting premises like other member of the akatsuki knowing about Itachis MS, we know Oro collected loads of secret info about the Akatsuki so again it would follow he knew about the MS. Fugaku was said to have weilded the Mangekyou while Oro was still high ranking in the village and it was even a widespread rumor that Fugaku could've stopped the Kyuubi attack if the Uchiha had been consulted because of his MS. And Oro knows Itachi killed Fugaku so again it would be logical on his part to at least be concerned that itachi had mangekyou. But you're right it's never directly stated, so that's why I'm not flat out saying Six is wrong, just that his claim isn't as unshakeable as he made it sound
@@SRVaris Oh and Danzo knew Shisui had Mangekyou and everyone knew about Shisui and Itachis relationship -- so since Danzo and Oro were allies at the time, Danzo probably would have told him when Oro was helping him implant Sharingan which would also lead Oro to at least worry about Itachis Mangekyou
@@jamjammerson1792 not really when you take ibto account those were the same edo hokages who fought in the ninja war with naruto and hashirama was still relative to edo madara
@@LuhTwizzy__ the same edo itachi who while not in control of his body was tying with a non serious bee? Also yes ik itchi didn't us ms but bee didn't even go Into his cloaked tailed beast mode he was in straight base throwing hands
It’s an interesting discussion - unfortunately Naruto is a terrible series for power scaling, especially when comparing part 1 to 2 It’s very obvious that power levels were supposed to cap near (slightly above) the level we saw in Orochimaru vs Hiruzen, but that ended up being such a relatively early fight that power creep broke the world - with Itachi (as much as I love him) being the prime cause and where we saw these sky rocket in Shippuden
Kabuto fought like 2/3rds of the shinobi alliance solo. He also fought sauske and itatchi in personal combat at the same time he was fighting an entire war . I’m feeling like he’s got the 5 kage
@@Rck-vert why come here and insult someone just because of a matchup question? It’s not like he asked for Choji vs Madara like it’s not that crazy of a question and even though SKabuto probably wins there are MULTIPLE ways the 5 kage get the W
My argument for Hiruzen against Itachi's genjutsu is that most likely Hiruzen is gonna have King Enma summoned. Would he be able to break him free of the genjutsu?
Definitely not tsukiyomi because of how quick it is, but a normal genjutsu sure. So basically if Itachi goes easy on him he maybe can survive a basic genjutsu lmao.
@@IlluviumGaming pretty sure hiruzen knows about how to avoid sharingan genjutsu. He literally has knowledge of all the other clan techniques if chiyo knows some common anti uchiha common sense im sure hiruzen does too.
@@IlluviumGaming Hiruzen spared a healthy Itachi’s life I think people forget that he is the only reason that even two Uchiha’s were allowed to live. If Hiruzen was confident that he could kill ALL the Uchiha I’m pretty sure he wasn’t worried about one Itachi
@Keldrick Lewis ...You do realize that Itachi got his MS outside of Hiruzen's knowledge right? All his most advanced jutsus in the series Hiruzen doesn't know about. Furthermore, Itachi was practically still a kid at that time, no one is talking about kid Itachi. I hope you're not a troll cause you got me if you are.
Fax this is a very good video and you did proper research for both fighters I give this a S plus ps I don't know if you know this or not who do you think would win between itachi vs fugaku vs shisui the battle of the mangekyo sharingan
Damn bro, you completely changed my mind. I forgot Itachi had all those abilities. I came here to disagree with you, but now I’m an agreer! Good job! 👍🏾
They would nit be able to break them out of taukuyomi, at the very minimum. For others, maybe. Itachi has crazy genjustu, even other specialists In genjustu were literally helpless.
@@galatic-wyvern2993 i know that your right and even just one second in itachi genjutsu its already over 😂 i just said its arguable for the itachi haters
One question I'm always curious about. I could absolutely be wrong but in the vein of show me vs tell me, what has amatartsu ever done in the show? Every use of it i remember gets sluffed off or dodged. It's like talking about fire style but what or when has fire style ever been successful against someone.
As far as I remember, A did lose one of his arms to it and it also defeat bee's tailed beast form, it's both happens when sasuke use it though. But I feel like we still shouldn't downplay it for itachi though, because the time he did use it narratively he doesn't really want to kill the target (Jiraya and Sasuke)
@@ジェジェガロン not trying to downplay for itachi. Just I hear both fire style jutsu and amatarsu and between Manga and anime with the way they're talked about they seem to have very little feats
What I find really interesting: Think of all the Jutsus Hiruzen knows (kinda all of the leaf) and THEN think which combination would help Hiruzen vs. Itachi.
So counters I have for this debate is itachi defeated a orochimaru that is years younger and we know orochimaru trained and prepped for his battle with hiruzen. And itachi just received a huge sharingan and mental amp from recently murdering his clan and abandoning the village. The outcome of the fight doesn’t change really but that is one point I wanted to state.
We also saw orochimaru get one shot by the totska blade. And sure, it's an instant kill attack, but do you think orochimaru would WANT that big fuckoff sword hitting him, even if he didn't recognize it? Nah, itachi speed blitzes poor orochimaru, sad to say
💀💀💀💀Lmfao bruh you fucking kill me Six, idk why I laughed so hard when you monotonely said "They serve as a great distraction and deal splash damage" all i keep imagining is in the old Pokemon games every time Magikarp would attack someone lol😂😂
@@manny9191 he still can but if you assume that he’d start a 1v1 with Enma then Enma could help if he recognizes Tsukuyomi fast enough. Tsukuyomi is still ridiculously fast and damaging. There’s also no evidence Enma would come out immediately as he didn’t bring him out during his fight with Orochimaru until after a while of fighting the first and second Hokage for awhile.
@@SuperEvilTurkey well tsyukomi affects the brain directly not the chakra, so he wouldn't be able to break himself out. And if its a blood lusted itachi he would kill him before he realised with the tsyukomi. But normal genjutsu he could release if good enough
@@manny9191 I totally agree I’m just entertaining the hypothetical possibility of even if Enma is there for him to stop significant damage he’d have to be VERY quick.
@@SuperEvilTurkey yeah i hear you and to be honest we dont know enmas fastest speed so who knows but making it a 2 vs 1 on itachi can help due to the low stamina. Although itachi is great at chakra control
7:19 That's Chiyo though she is a big name ninja but i am not sure that's the case for ninja on a higher scale for example most Uchiha were like "Hey we need Shisui's busted ass genjutsu in order to take down Hiruzen"
His genjutsu was supposed to be used on Fugaku to stop internal conflict. Chiyo fought fuckin Hanzo dude who was owning literally every single shinobi he ran across during the third great shinobi war.
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif not stated but it might be implied. I brought up Hanzo because my man’s acting like Chiyo wasn’t out during the war raising hell for the strongest ninja out there until Tsunade countered her poison.
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif the Uchiha wanting something and Shisui and Itachi wanting something are two different things. Shisui and Itachi were more aligned with the village and trying to maintain peace. The Uchiha wanted to overthrow the leadership.
Edo Hiruzen matching that Buda statue attack stomps any physical feat from Itachi. I'm not sure if it's an outlier, but if you use that feat and him outspeeding Edo Tobirama, then Edo Hiruzen stomps, but alive Hiruzen would probably lose to prime Itachi.
I agree itachi is better. But it feels like it’s mostly because of genjutsu. Give old man hiruzen te same level of ocular genjutsu … or like anyone for that matter, and I feel like they could accomplish a similar feet. I think having an ability that the opponent has NO RESISTANCE to is a easy way to just beat them without technicalally being “stronger” than them. I mean even when itachi fights orochimaru a second time he uses hax again (totsuka blade). For once I’d love to see itachi fight someone on his level without some random hax that allows him to strait up bi pass durability. Idk
I know I am probably going to get a lot of hate for this. But I have to bring this up either way. Sarutobi was stated to be the strongest Kage in the village in Naruto Classic. (First Databook, page 162) He supposedly suprassed Tobirama when he was still young. Just as a side note We know that Madara was stated to be the most powerful Uchiha and we know that Hashirama is more powerful than Madara. That means that we are in a deadlock. Because we have seen Hiruzen be far weaker than Itachi. However Statements make it clear that he should be leagues above him. These kind of match ups don't really make sense if we can't assume both characters are at their peak strength.
One of these characters is loved by the fanbase for a touching, emotional moment where he decided to make a sacrifice that would reverberate throughout the story and inspire several characters' actions moving forward. The other is a pretty boy. The Real Winner? From a narrative standpoint, Hiruzen Sarutobi.
I agree but tsunade definetly knows hiruzen and kakashi only kno cuz he copied hiruzen cant so its hard to tell if her stament is wrong or if kakashi is an exception to the rule
Considering Itachi is a good match for Minato, and most of the community puts Minato above Hiruzen anyways, I'd say it all makes sense. But let's see Itachi vs Tobirama. I feel like that would be a fun fight - not necessarily because I think Tobirama is stronger than Hiruzen (because I'd actually say they're pretty close from what scaling I've seen) but because Tobirama has developed pretty much everything in his arsenal to defeat Uchihas specifically. Plus, y'know, he's the ultimate Uchiha hater.
@@lightVs.DarkBalance yeah I misspoke on that one. I don't think Itachi is anywhere near as strong as Minato, just that it's an interesting fight that gets talked about a lot
@@orionsarrow2119 Minato has nothing against genjutsu tho. I don't know why wouldn't he just lost to Itachi the way Orochimaru did. Saying Minato could resist or break Itachi's genjutsu is just a baseless assumption and sounds very unlikely to me, because why would he? And since they're in the same speed tier, they're able to react and keep up with each other, I just don't see what's Minato gonna do, tbh.
@@Stolas9 see, that second paragraph is your issue - Itachi and Minato are nowhere NEAR the same speed. Iirc, Minato is directly stated to be the fastest ninja to have ever lived. And before you say it, I don't think Itachi scales to KCM Naruto in terms of speed, either. It was pretty obvious Naruto wasn't trying to seal Itachi right away because he needed Intel. Whereas he had to use every ounce of his concentration and effort to outspeed A, who Minato already scaled above in base form. Also, you would think that if Obito could put Minato under genjutsu, he would have at least tried during their fight, and he didn't. And Obito scales as a pretty close second to Itachi in terms of genjutsu. Minato also knows not to look Itachi in the eye, he's not getting hit by Amaterasu, he can teleport to Itachi to bypass his Susano'o completely, and if you really wanna be sad, remember that Minato has sage mode to increase his speed even more and enable him to fight with his eyes closed. Itachi really has nothing on Minato.
I wonder if genjutsu will work on shadow clones? Itachi couldn't cast his illusion on one of Kakashi clones, so if Hiruzen will use them as he usually does it will be much more difficult for Itachi to catch him.
Hiruzen during that whole fight with Orochimaru was only able to do 2 clones but in Edo was doing 5 at most. Itachi can make multiple clones as well so that's not going to make it difficult especially when Itachi can make his clones explode in command which 1 of those could take out all of Hiruzen's clones at once if planned Right
If minato isn't slower than Tonbirama because of "mental nerf". (I know you feel that way as a professional minato throater) Then Old Hiruzen can't be argued to be even be relative to Orochimaru. He started winning as soon as he started trying. After already suffering immense damage. That is literally the same parameters as Sasuke vs Itachi. - You literally reference Hiruzen vs Orochimaru as an example of a mental nerf for whatever video you were capping for Minato yet again. - Why are you talking about Itachi's nature transformations when hiruzen knows all of them. You could argue that he's better at fire style, but could still be countered with water style at BEST. - Man really said Hiruzen would fall for Substitution. - " Chiyo said that you need another ally to break out of ocular genjutsu" YOU MEAN LIKE ENMA? A summon that is relative to hiruzen? - "Naruto warned bee about Amaterasu in KCM, so it still must be dangerous to him" Bee has literally been hit by Amaterasu already at this point. - Do you honestly think Itachi didn't get a mental amp after getting hit by Kirin? Him fighting the hydra should be his strongest state alive, as he is literally protecting sasuke from getting his body stolen. If he took Kirin from somebody else he probably wouldn't have gotten back up. - The Yata Mirror has to be defeated by at LEAST the same mechanism that truth seeker barriers were defeated. And Hiruzen has both Yin and Yang release At best Itachi needs MS to win 10/10 times. I think the reason why you hear this argument a lot is because its easy to poke a lot of holes in your argumentation.
That last point is not a valid argument, Yes Hiruzen has Yin release and Yang release, but not Yin-Yang release, although is possible for an non-six paths character to learn Yin-Yang release (Obito and Madara did it, check chapter 606 "Dream World"), Hiruzen never did. Other than that, those are very good arguments, I had never though about some of them before.
My boi hiruzen gonna get disrespected here in this vs even tho as Edo he fought guru guru Yamato,was able to get to save Naruto before Tobirama,and was able to throw the full nine tails out of the village Edo Hiruzen should slam any version of itachi
These power scaling videos and channels are so funny they try to quantify qualitative variables all the time, but, if the barrator wants something to happen it will, regardless of if it makes sense or not. That's probably the most annoying thing about fiction, people who should win don't if the writer doesn't want them to. In summary, Itachi and all his crows get mogged by Hiruzen. He then married Kushina and births Naruto
I think there’s definite arguments in a lot of series, a good writer should make it so you don’t think this after all, but Naruto is one where (especially later on) this is 100% true Take Itachi as an example, since he’s the topic here, he kept getting new abilities just to let him win, heck the fact that his quick skirmish against Kakashi pretty much wore him out completely, yet when he fought Sasuke (while practically on his death bed) Itachi kept pulling massive Jutsu like it was nothing goes to show just how prevalent this was (and I won’t even start with Madara and how he screams this)
people really should stop using data books to power scale, theyre almost always written by a third party and then "approved" by the author. This approval is basically just an okay and there is no chance that theyre going through them with a fine tooth comb and making sure everything is correct.
Hopefully you read my comment, many years ago I remember kishimoto said that prime hiruzen beats itachi, jiraiya, this what I just said is not a lie and this was said like 10 years ago
I haven’t even started the video yet but I’m just going to say outright that Hiruzen old gets bodied …. Easily. And Hiruzen Prime probably wins in a high difficulty fight.
Itachi is individually stronger than all the Kages that fought Madara. Even if Hiruzen summons 3 of the top Anbu Black Ops who watched his fight against Orochimaru the outcome would still remain in Itachi as the victor.
@@jasonmoukala8909 Onoki is not fast enough or has an ability to cut Itachi's vision off and if for some weird reason he is able to hit Itachi with Particle Style by using some unexplained binding jutsu Itachi could simply Izanagi his way out of it or use his Spirit Shield since Onoki doesn't have Senjutsu or Six Path Technique to breach its defense. The real question is can Onoki dodge Amaterasu because Itachi would launch it faster than his Particle Style and I don't recall Onoki being a lightning speedster.
@@therealprophet2488 I agree with you but it did happen in chapter 641 when the TSO was about to explode Sasuke's susano was able to shield naruto faster than Minato could move
@@azureflow9972 minato for one was mentally nerfed from obito berating him cause later on we see minato blitz 8th gates guy and teleport the TSO from juubidara away
I only now noticed something... Madara was never really a Genjutsu user, because of that Hashirama never really had to care about genjutsu, but Itachi is another type of fighter, how does Hashirama deal with genjutsu on the level of tsukoyomi ?
He was so strong that he was able to completely resist control from the reanimation jutsufrom a stronger orochimaru a jutsu that brought him back in the first place imo I think his strength would just neg genjutsu
@@gameuniverse5973 Genjutsu Kurama or any tailed beast is the easiest thing to do if you're and Uchiha with MS. Kid Obito could genjutsu Kurama and then a few years later Obito couldn't genjutsu a 10 years old, Sharinganless Itachi, because he just casually resisted the genjutsu. Itachi would easily be able to genjutsu and control Kurama. Don't get me wrong, Hashirama stomps Itachi, I'm just saying that Madara controlling Kurama isn't really a good genjutsu feat.
Tsukiyomi is haxxx. No reason to debate something which can not be debated. Hashirama is the goat but thats like saying Hashirama would resist the totsuka blade (point being it should work on any being). It's one of "those don't get hit by this techniques". Just cause someone can potentially beat someone doesn't mean that they are greater. Example....Batman beats DC mega villains with enough prep .. rediculous I know
It’s amazing how people will claim Orochimaru was caught off guard but then simultaneously ignore that Orochimaru himself admits that he is inferior to Itachi, so much so that the only time he even tries to take him on again is when Itachi is on the BRINK of dying. It’s amazing how people say “given what we know about prime Hiruzen” we can assume that Itachi at least loses to that Hiruzen. But what do we really know about prime Hiruzen? Because there’s maybe a handful of statements on said version of Hiruzen and they leave tons of room for speculation. Edit: bare in mind if there was even the slightest amount of relativity that the writers wanted to portrait between Orochimaru and Itachi… you can guarantee there would be an ACTUAL fight between the two so that they could display said RELATIVITY. But no the writers went out their way to portray Orochimaru as weak by comparison
Okay okay to keep this short and simple. Ik hirozen at this point in the story is past his prime buuut in his fight with Orochumaru he struggled greatly in fact he died as a result of that fight. That orochumaru at the time was sooo scared shitless of Itachi he had to prey on his little brother as a child to get what he wanted.
Hmph Hiruzen had little screentime in the war to not minimize his sacrifice. Kishimoto had no other choice to brought him for the sake of fanservice. No wonder why we don't get to see jiraiya, konan and kisame. Oh and kakuzu has little screen time too. He had no choice with Itachi, the arc was already sucking and he needed to brought him back for the sake of relevancy.
Kishimoto also knew he couldn't bring Hiruzen back in his prime too else he'd be caught out in his bullshit world building when he made prime Hiruzen levels above Hashirama in part 1.
The war arc is good to me tbh it’s just the critics and manga readers who judge every tiny flaw who label it as bad I loved the war and the whole Indra and ashura backstory. Also Provided us with a bunch of more lore on the naruto verse that I always wondered about and wanted to know. Now in boruto they’re continuing off that lore while giving his son his own story and own set of reasons why he has to get involved in the otsustsuki business that the shinobi from the beginning of times started cough cough Hagoromo, cough cough Hamura spreading the teachings of ninshū like it was candy. Now lord boruto will be the one to clean all the bs these people started while even having the otsutsuki gods eye! 😈⚡️💜
I still can't get over the fact that a quote on quote formal debater claims susanoo is weaker than the user and beats me in 3 eye madara vs pre kaguya naruto or sasuke individually with it
Simply saying someone wins because they are more powerful is always funny… There are plenty of fights where the person is weaker but wins against a stronger opponent. In fact, every sound ninja is stronger outright than the 11, however they are smarter, shown. Also there is nothing the 3rd has that itachi can’t outthink or out power. The same can’t be said at all for the 3rd. The bringer of darkness justu is also void when itachi can have shadow clones on the field without the other person knowing he did it. He does this against sasuke while throwing Shuriken at light speed…
@@gameuniverse5973 I mean yeah, obito is there aswell, but he's really strange to talk about since he's just messing around of straight up lying for like 80% of shippuden.
@@Rck-vert the raikage is fast…. it’s as if you forgot he fought minato head on. Of course chad minato let him live but he was still fast enough to be on par with him meanwhile no other shinobi can even get close to him as the raikage did. He was like a split second from hitting minato but minato wasn’t phased lol. My point being that’s the proof we need as to why he dodge Sasuke’s amaterasu
Sarutobi would probably knew itachi's techniques, he would be prepared for itachi techniques when fight starts, we saw a few techniques of sarutobi, knowing that sarutobi knows millons nijutsus
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Surprising! Knowing you, I thought you were going to say Hiruzen > Itachi
@@GodlyShinobi Prime hiruzen slams
I dont even know what to say. I could understand if Orochimaru didnt get stronger after the Itachi incident, but that would just be blatantly untrue.
Could Itachi seal away the shinigami if he used totsuka blade on it? O.o
@@jacobstorms4939 maybe but you cant physically see the Shinigami until it is touching your soul.
“Mental amp” is probably just the chakra equivalent of adrenaline
That actually makes a lot of sense
Underrated comment here
Focused adrenaline instead of fear adrenaline but yeah
That's ... probably exactly what it is now that i think ab it
Chakra is spiritual and physical energy. Why not:
Phys: adrenaline
+
Sprt: "i will not let you destroy my world!!"
Itachi is the epitome of “by the way, I wasn’t even trying” and “bro I was sick”
Itachi fan boys always say those two things
@@mauricewhite5721 it’s just true dawg😭
@@mauricewhite5721 cause its true
@@tanwin137 Bet you'd say Itachi beats adult Sasuke and Naruto
@@pavlegrebenarevic382 I mean I'm an Itachi fan but even I get that that's a dumb statement to make when Sasuke has the hax versions of Itachi's best abilities (Amaterasu, with control that Itachi didn't have, and a perfect Susano) that are pretty much spammable because he has the EMS and Naruto...literally fought and drew with Sasuke when he had those abilities *and* had just taken the tailed beasts...and all of that *before* The Last and Boruto where Naruto and Sasuke jumped massively up the power curve.
Even if you take them as they are in Boruto now post-Isshiki (Sasuke no Rinnegan, Naruto no Kurama), that's almost certainly a win for the two protags. The only problematic one in that scenario is weirdly Naruto's matchup and specifically vs Tsukuyomi - the loss of Kurama already hurts him for this fight even if he still has strengths like Sage mode and (potentially) the different nature releases he got back in the war arc, but he doesn't have a real answer to that absurd a level of genjutsu from Itachi aside from just blitzing him before Itachi has a chance to react.
Sasuke, on the other hand, still has EMS, all of his adult level of training and only lost the Rinnegan that would've made the fight a massive beatdown - it's just a regular beatdown instead. lol
There's a narrative argument you didn't mention but adds to how badly Hiruzen loses. Itachi came back to the village after he died to make sure Danzo wouldn't pull shit. Itachi felt that returning one time just to flex was equivalent to Hiruzen being in the village 24/7
that last sentence is headcanon, he didn’t think that at all😂
Head cannon
@@167kinggam its a pretty valid interpretation if he was worried about danzo he had options but he clearly decided that one appearance was good enough, on top of the fact that at that time he was essentially if not definitely the strongest character on screen its a very valid interpretation. It would be headcannon if I said that it was true im just saying thats one way you can interpret what happened
Bro you going crazy with that 24/7 flex statement
@@curvilinearcube8716 actually he was the strongest character in part 1
I agree with the whole video except for the bringer of darkness genjutsu point, since it was specifically developed to counter the sharingan. While I don't think it would work on Itachi it isn't accurate to say it wouldn't work on uchiha
This. Exactly this point.
It was definitely made for that but Kabuto flash bang is a better version
I mean it was created by racist senju
@@Piano_improvisations you mean tobirama ? Is he bigoted or his he war weary from having fought them for most of his and his clans life ? Quite a number of senju were slain by Uchiha ( and vice-versa) besides tobirama only wanted to kill Sasuke when Sasuke Saud he wanted to destroy the village even then he was rather calm the entire conversation when him
@Draco 🌙 the description in the data books states it puts you in eternal darkness, it pretty much says it makes your eyes useless. The data book description heavily implies its for that reason. Regardless itachi would neg the genjutsu anyways. Genjutsu reversal is a thing if you're better than the caster at genjutsu which itachi would be better than hiruzen at
My only disagreement is that it's unfair to say there's no point in speaking about hiruzen in his prime since its an unknown amount of strength increase, but also talk about a "healthy" itachi that as far as I know there is essentially no known way of knowing what that is aside from talking about edo at which point we should at least talk about edo hiruzens feats.
Healthy itachi no diffed orochimaru with hands.
The question is, was Edo Hiruzen even in his prime body? He still has the shorter stature and face he had just before death. So it's entirely possible Edo Hiruzen is just a revived version of his Part 1 self
@@twistedvtuber9894 the main point in the Orochimaru fight is that Hiruzen doesn't have as much chakra as he used to, he also says that his staff felt heavier. The chakra problem doesn't happen to edo tensei revived and in the war Hiruzen uses the staff very impressively, though he still would be somewhat nerfed due to being an edo. This last point would be the same with edo Itachi, so technically neither of them were at his prime, but were still stronger than they were before death
@@twistedvtuber9894 all edo were brought back in the basic condition they were in when they died.
The problem with that is that edo Hiruzen was still an old man. So we still don’t know what young Hiruzen from seeing him in the war arc. However edo itachi is just itachi without his sickness and nerfed by 20%
Kishimoto really looked at the Uchiha clan and said "Man, fuck them Hyugas. Equal rival clans, my ass."
I mean technically the tenseigan is way better than the Sharigan variants and is arguably a bigger boost than the normal Rinnegan with the tenseigan also giving you truth seeker orbs and a cloak Soo yeah
Meanwhile in boruto it’s more focused on the byuakugan and other new dojutsu which is one of the main reasons I love where they’re going with the overkill power scaling lmao
Itachi is the textbook definition of "built different."
No
Yes
The fact that when his crow clones get injured and can form other clones without using chakra is crazy
more crazy how its a non-factor
@@drowning.macaco how is that a non factor
@@shaayo8113 pobrably that it doesnt matter cuz he still defeats him without it?
@@shaayo8113 i read "crows" instead of "clones" btw how is that possible?
Edo Hiruzen slams wtf
If Itachi's feeling Demonic.
A FLICK OF HIS WRIST???
🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶 he's just too icy. Itachi "ya don't wanna box me" Uchiha in our hearts, is always undefeated.
My two push backs. Guy and hashirama were known for fighting Uchiha without looking at there eyes, Minato surpassed this by being able to tell the comple make up of a jutsu from seeing it one time. Hiruzen surpasses even that by being able to tell what jutsu someone is gonna do just by the hand signs, i.e before they've even launched it.
He also has the edo feat where he matches justu instead of using the counter justu, and is known for being able to produce elemental jutsu that are stronger with less chakra.
Also there's zero chance itachi is misdirecting hiruzen, he fought two hokage in complete darkness.
@@TheNewblade1 Tru
@@TheNewblade1 you mean 2 Hokage there unfathomably nerfed that they only could use 2 Jutsu...
@@kaimobley5324no more like they didn’t have the opportunity to do more then that.
@@jamerson4967 opportunity isn't an excuse. As often as Tobirama was using Teleportation when he didn't have his emotions and mind restricted and Hashirama constantly using more then just Deep Forrest Emergence when he was also not restricted the same way that's a no go. I chop that up to Orochimaru not knowing how to really utilize them in that state the same way he also didn't know how to really use the Kazekage and Kabuto didn't really understand how to use Nagato's abilities despite having a superior version of Edo Tensei over Orochimaru's version.
5:57 Hiruzen most of the time was acting out of character even his staff is like "Hey you ok this isn't like you at all" so by the time he went all out he was exhausted
no proof. this is just cap to hype hiruzen up. The databook said Hiruzen cannot cope with Orochimaru talent
Regardless, Hiruzen and Orochi are relative to each other.
Itachi straight up beat Orochimaru with a single glance...when he was 14. Itachi literally made Orochi leave the Akatsuki.
Meaning 14yr old Itachi beats Old Hiruzen.
That's just using the facts displayed in the show.
Both Orochimaru and Hiruzan were holding back. So calm down people, the story clearly shows both of them holding back, because they both still care for each other
@@bjrnthebootybandit i can send a direct quote from the staff saying Hiruzen was ooc
@@Faustained 1. No they are not the moment Orochimaru fought a serious Hiruzen he got disarmed easily
2. Orochimaru was not at his strongest there and Itachi didn't grow much
We need more backstory on Hiruzen to see how nice he was in his prime
True but he would still lose to Itachi
Yeah while we got a taste of Prime Hiruzen in his edo form. It’s not the same as him in his prime.
@Denavio Leeks actually we kind of due. Back during the Flash Backs when Minato was dealing with Obito and Kurama we see Hiruzen also trying to deal with Kurama until Minato was able to do something. Hiruzen was far younger and stronger during that time period yet at the same time the best he could do as a Hokage was push Kurama out of the village. Him doing that tho impressive didn't do any type of Damage to Kurama at all. Now let's go back to when Hiruzen and Orochimaru fought. Orochimaru said verbatim that if Hiruzen was just 10 years younger he would've beaten him. The version of Hiruzen I used is far younger then that by at least 20years.
With that as a basis if that 40ish year old Hiruzen struggled to Push Kurama out of the village while some like Itachi can flat out control it without problem or risk when even Sasuke pre absorbed Orochimaru was strong enough to suppress Half of Kurama in Naruto with Base Sharingan alone yet he's still weaker then Itachi Hiruzen isn't doing anything to Itachi.
@@kaimobley5324 Obito attacked the village 12 years before Orochimaru did not at least 20 lol. Naruto was born thay day. This is like the 1st thing you are told when watching/reading Naruto
@@kaimobley5324 hiruzen is 68-69 when he fought orochimaru cause orochimaru, tsunade and jiraiya are in their 50s. Hiruzen being 10 years younger at 58-59 would still be far out of his prime but still much stronger than orochimaru who is 50-51 when he fought hiruzen
Hiruzen: Struggles for an hour to keep up with Orochimaru and then just kills himself because he's losing
Itachi: points his finger at Orochimaru without even facing him and dominates him so completely that Orochimaru simply gives up on the idea of ever being able to make Itachi do anything he doesn't want to.
You’re so wrong I don’t even know where to begin. If you read the manga you’ll know that in the tug of war with the death seal went on for something crazy like 20 hours. Showing hiruzens endurance and chakra levels even as an old man. And this was after hiruzen fought the 1st and 2nd while fighting orochimaru. Furthermore orochimaru stated that he waited 10plus years for hiruzen to get old. Cuz he know he couldn’t take the leaf with him in his prime.
@@skroochi1901 the manga must have been over exaggerated you're telling me Naruto chased Gara for 20 hours you got to be kidding me ain't no f****** way
@@sansboi1760 it was something closer to 10 than 20 from what I remember. But do you think a village scale attack lasts for an hour or something lol? Battles of that scale last a long time.
@@skroochi1901And what? Fact is a fact, Itachi one tapped Orochimaru while Hiruzen lost to him. Give him every benefit of the doubt and he still scales below Orochimaru, which was beaten at his strongest by a sick and blind Itachi with barely any chakra left.
@@MajorTom4 Itachi defeating orochimaru was plot armor and makes nonsense if You think about it
Orochimaru va Itachi
Strength: orochimaru
Speed: orochimaru
Durability: orochimaru
Endurance: orochimaru
Agility: Itachi
Abilities: Itachi
Hax: Itachi
Ninjutsu: orochimaru
Taijutsu: Itachi
Genjutsu: Itachi
Iq: orochimaru
Battle iq: Itachi
Weapons: Itachi
Experience: orochimaru
As You can see it's a closer fight than You think, i'm sure that if orochimaru takes care of avoiding genjutsu he could hold his own against Itachi or even defeat him, Amaterasu won't work since orochimaru can throw a new egg of himself and totsuka blade can work, but Itachi won't use the susanoo since the begining, by the time he uses it he will already be tired and if orochimaru does not underestimate him he can avoid it too, so also old hiruzen could defeat Itachi since old hiruzen is at the same level of orochimaru
Someone tried to convince me that if Boruto got Momoshiki's rinnegan abilities, he would be a fanfic character.
I pointed to Itachi: the original Naruto custom fanfic character. And most people love this man.
Where is stated that Itachi's Amaterasu spawns directly on the target, unlike Sasuke's? Because his Sasuke fight contradicts this, when Sasuke ran and Itachi missed the Amaterasu a few times.
Itachi also let sasuke live during that entire fight and was simply trying to draw out orochimaru before his disease killed him
It’s common knowledge atp that both Sasuke and Itachi fought differently. Itachi could do everything Sasuke could do with Amaterasu but shape it. Itachi also stated the Sharingan could access chakra meaning he knew exactly when Sasuke would prepare a jutsu.
@@rkvlegacy9206 Where's the statement or proof that Itachi's Amaterasu spawns on the target and not just goes there fast, like Sasuke's?
@@Stolas9 Amaterasu is stated to spawn instantly and within the users sight. Sasuke could do the same though Itachi’s fire is stated to burn hotter and on the novels was able to produce blue flames. Not sure where the guy got his info
@@rkvlegacy9206 thr blue flames refers to itachis normal fire justu not amteratsu also amteratsu doesn't spawn it is stated to burn everything in sight two very different things now sasuke has been stated to be way better than itachi in terms of using amteratsu ans there was not a single stated difference between their two versions
its really weird when looking at itachi because we don't really know how his gen justsu will interact with different opponents. its a bit of a non factor when doing versus with other uchiha since most of the other high tier Uchiha don't incorporate gen justsu into their fighting much at all. even Sasuke uses it sparingly in comparison. The fact that it was effective on everyone he used it on suggests to me that without specific hacks, you're pretty much fucked if he catches you in a gen jutsu.
Fact's
Good point
I don't know why everyone says that most of the Uchiha are resistant to his genjutsu I know Kakashi's not a Uchiha but he did have a Sharingan for years and he has dealt with genjutsu users in the past and yet Itachi in a matter of a nanosecond stomped him.
It's not a non factor. It works on Uchiha until proven that there's a suitable counter.
Nearly everything in on the table for versus matchups.
Itachi was this strong without hashirama cells/no EMs/ and ninja aids💯💯💯💯it’s just mind blowing that he’s one of the few without those type of hacks in this show and he’s still like top 10 even during the war
being an uchiha is a hack in itself
He's not top 10 during the war.
@@z.e.d4037 name 9 more people during the war and I guarantee most would be either 10 tailed jinjuricki and copies of the same person ie madera/10 tailed madera
He definitely not top ten in the verse even without juubi chars
@@gameuniverse5973 maybe not boruto but in naruto he’s top 10
I honestly think it would be cool if prime Hiruzen nearly or flat out equaled Hashirama.
It could even have a head cannon explanation such as Hiruzen being able to use the gates. But the older he got the less and less he could use the gates until he couldn't whatsoever.
Orochimaru underestimated Itachi and paid for it.
MS requires a ton of Chakra to maintain and utilize, as we've seen. So if Itachi went there, if he didn't get rid of Hiruzen quick enough, that's game. Factor his sickly constitution due to illness, and that substantially limits him in the long haul. He's fighting a top tier hokage. Dude didn't become hokage and maintain his prestigious reputation playing by with himself.
Orochimaru is a weakness of Hiruzen because he saw him as a son and it's been established that it affected him before he left the village and afterwards. It's a source of his greatest shame.
Hiruzen also had to fight a slighter lower leveled first and second hokage, both apparently been in his life and as mentors, while he's out of his prime and STILL handled business.
Itachi blows hotter fire release? The Sarutobi clan is known for expert proficiency in fire release as well.
Hiruzen, despite being out of prime, was apparently regarded as the most powerful hokage during his time. Dude also has access to every ninjutsu of the village that aint a kekkai genkai or hiden. He can use all 5 nature transformations and during his revival, we saw how poweful his nature release efforts are when he made 5 shadow clones and had them basically nuke the ten tails. I'm not saying that Itachi couldn't beat Hiruzen with MS but like let's not act like he wouldn't have to work for it, assuming it doesn't turn into a draw. Dude grew up with Uchiha and was definitely intending to lead the spear against the Uchiha, who are well known for their genjutsu prowess, if they didn't calm tf down when they were plotting to rebel. I wouldn't paint it like some sort of high dif like you're flexing it to be.
Orochimaru tried surprise attacking Itachi… lost.
Orochimaru tried taking advantage of a no chakra Sasuke and a quite literally dying Itachi… lost.
He underestimated him twice???
If someone is even relative to someone, and they attack their opponent the way Orochimaru did then there would still be a fight to display their relativity. INSTEAD Oro literally admitted inferiority to Itachi, and fled the Akatsuki. But Orochimaru fighting Hiruzen was considered a not even a match for him but simply a fun past time.
What are we missing here lol
Orochimaru tried surprise attacking Itachi… lost.
Orochimaru tried taking advantage of a no chakra Sasuke and a quite literally dying Itachi… lost.
He underestimated him twice???
If someone is even relative to someone, and they attack their opponent the way Orochimaru did then there would still be a fight to display their relativity. INSTEAD Oro literally admitted inferiority to Itachi, and fled the Akatsuki. But Orochimaru fighting Hiruzen was considered a not even a match for him but simply a fun past time.
What are we missing here lol
@@SuperEvilTurkey I'm saying it wouldn't be some high dif loss like he's claiming it to be. Like I said.
In regards to the Sasuke manifesting thing? The yata mirror and that genjtusu sword capped Orochimaru. He had no answer for it. He was screwed before he started.
In the fight with Sarutobi, I explained what I meant. So if you didn't read it, say that.
@@SuperEvilTurkey yes espically when u take into account only reason near dead itachi wasn't over powered was because he had a shield that literally negates all attacks and 2 he had a one show sword
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif that sword despite sealing whatever it pierces still cut off literally all but one head of Orochimaru’s strongest jutsu. Only reason why the one wasn’t was because he needed to seal Orochimaru.
The shield didn’t really do anything. 8 headed hydra was coiled around his Susano, and his shield was not shown deflecting that. You see Itachi’s Susano struggle free that’s it.
It was another display of power from Itachi hax or no. Now if you wanna say Susano is OP then you’d be right. Is totsuka blade op? Yes. But you’re misrepresenting the actual scene itself by saying Yata mirror played any role and by implying that he only won because of the totsuka blade.
In my opinion Itachi is one of the most Unique, Authentic and Influential characters from the series. The thing that people underestimate about Itachi fights/encounters, isn't just his power, (it's mainly writters or Kishimoto's fault for making Itachi seem or to look very powerful throughout the series) but how smart and intelligent he is during various situations, he never, ever underestimates his opponents because of his composure and his way of being, the level of thinking he's on honestly dwars most people in the series, with only people like Minato and Shikaku comparable with him. More precisly, Itachi isn't just an ordinary Shinobi also, he pretty much knows and he's also aware that all strong opponents have weaknesses (including himself), and he specializes in finding those "weaknesses" and exploiting them ("*Even the strongest of opponents always has a weakness*" - Uchiha Itachi) because he's that type of character who can exceed almost any expectations. Itachi is very unique and authentic, especially in the factor of facing various encounters approach, his unpredictability in his way of fighting style approach it's his key factor in all of his encounters. Being blind or nearly blind has never slowed him down (especially when he's pretty much serious, but that's the point, he has never go all out against anyone during the series.) Itachi it's that type of character who can exceed almost any expectations. (at least that's what we were shown in the anime by the creator Masashi Kishimoto). Moral of the story, never underestimate Itachi. He did more sick then most healthy ninjas do in their entire life. In my opinion No One should underestimate such an unpredictable Shinobi like Itachi, even Madara (I won't say that Itachi can beat him, but at least he will be pretty much able to put a decent fight that Madara will also be impressed in my opinion). Also how can some of you guys even consider that Totsuka Blade it's slow when no such speed feat has been shown through the Shippuden that state it that it is slow? All of you are assuming it to be slow it may not be the case... Its not that the sword is unavoidable but it clearly has a very long range and is a very long blade. If you look at the manga, Naruto, Bee and Itachi are all relatively small from Nagato's point of view, and you can see the Totsuka Blade extending all the way from Itachi, piercing through Nagato, and still managing to nearly pop out toward the reader out of the page. I would say its fast because Kabuto coudldn't even react to it, and its not like Nagato was completely immobile to the point that he couldn't sidestep the blade. Also, Kabuto controlling people from far away is never stated to inhibit the Edos' reaction speed in any way. Being controlled by someone thousands of miles away didn't stop the Third Raikage from dodging KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken. And as for Orochimaru, the sword struck him in between syllables of a word during his speech. I think that that is pretty fast. Pair the Totuska Blade with a good feint and its lethal because its ethereal, meaning it can pierce through any object. If the sword didn't live up to its reputation then Orochimaru wouldn't seek it out. People need to stop downplaying Itachi and denying the very clear speed feats of Totsuka. There is no room for interpretations here. The advantage of being an Uchiha, especially for Itachi and Madara, is that during an encounter against them, they always have a counter because of their unpredictable way of fighting factor, they don't run out of options or techniques, they almost always have a counter in their arsenal, even forbidden jutsus seems irrellevant against them, only a few Uchihas know a certain way to approach the situation with a certain and effective technique, that's why is hard/difficult to fight against them in my opinion. ☯️ 🤷♂️ Here are the things that make Itachi so formidable. Tsukuyomi - A genjutsu so powerful that you literally can't escape it unless you have the same blood as Itachi, as stated by Itachi himself and proven later by Sasuke, or you're a jinchuriki. Jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu but it hasn't been proven, but when Bee was fighting Edo Nagato and Itachi with Naruto, he said to watch out for Tsukuyomi explicitly. Literally 99% of all opponents fighting Itachi have no way of stopping Tsukuyomi. You could have the power to split the planet in half and it wouldn't matter. (Want to know why? - Kakashi pretty much state it in the actual anime and manga that Tsukuyomi it's such a dangerous Genjutsu Technique because it happen in a instant, even if you realize that you are trapped in the Tsukuyomi, it will be too late, because Itachi could approach you during that time in the real world (or he can use an Explosive Clone to approach you without you even realizing it in time and he can pretty much finish you before you can even realize, - 72 hours in Tsukuyomi realm means 1 second or a couple of seconds in the real world. Tsukuyomi can't be broken, when used to it's fullest.) The Sword of Totsuka and Yata Mirror - The Susanoo itself is a near invincible defense but these two weapons take it to the next step. The Sword of Totsuka can seal "anything" if it even touches it. It's completely OP. It's hard to fight a guy that can seal you away if his sword even touches you. The Yata Mirror is even a bigger deal in my opinion. It doesn't block attacks, it's "negates" them. You could throw an Amaterasu covered Bijuu bomb at Itachi and the Yata mirror will negate it, making it so the Susanoo doesn't even need to take a blow. You could punch the Yata mirror and the force will completely be negated. His biggest strength of all: tactical intelligence - Itachi always outsmarts and plans for everything because the plot demands it. You're physically strong? Itachi is already 2 steps ahead of you knowing exactly what to do. You're extremely fast? Again, 2 steps. You're going to try and outlast Itachi in a fight? Good luck. To add to this, some of the 3 most powerful techniques in the verse are due to his intelligence and planning ability; Izanami, Izanagi, and Kotoamatsukami. Izanami - A forbbiden genjutsu technique that allows you to alter someone's destiny. Impossible to break out of even if you know you're in a genjutsu without complying with the users set destiny for you. Even someone like Bee, a perfect Jinchuriki, can't escape Izanami unless he does what Itachi wants him to. Izanagi - You somehow gained an advantage over Itachi? He makes it so that advantage never happened. Kotoamatsukami - Though Shisui's technique, Itachi has his eye which effectively makes it his weapon. A genjutsu so powerful that the person it's cast on doesn't even know they're under a genjutsu. Like the Tsukuyomi, completely OP. To add to all of this, Itachi is pretty good at hand to hand combat, is great with shuriken, is extremely fast, is great with regular fire techniques, is slippery and unpredictable, and has the extremely dangerous and fast Genjutsu style of fighting approach that can caught you off guard almost at any time. With all of these things considered you've got one dangerous ninja. Lastly but not least Kishimoto made sure that Itachi was seen as someone special and he did an incredible job in establishing that in the story. When Itachi Uchiha awakened his Susano'o, he was seen wielding legendary weapons of the Totsuka Blade and the Yata Mirror. The former allowed Itachi to seal anyone he pierced in a world of genjutsu forever, while the latter gave him the ability to deflect any and all attacks thrown towards him, regardless of whether they were physical or spiritual in nature. According to Zetsu (who was around since the period of Kaguya time era until the present of Naruto) he state it in the anime and also in the manga that these weapons, when combined with his Susano'o, made Itachi Invincible. This is why Kishimoto basically had to give him a handicap: Naruto AIDS. 🤷♂️ ☯️
Kcm2 edo Minato still blitz'z healthy itachi. Perfect sage Minato can probably blitz him as well, imo Minato 'not being very good' as a perfect sage is the equivalent of itachis 'aids'
Also I firmly believe that obito is also objectively stronger than itachi. Tsukuyomi won't work on obito, neither will amaterasu. Totsuka blade won't work as obito can simply kamui out of it . Nothing in itachis kit will work on obito aside from izanagi/izanami, and I think we can all agree obito knows both of those tricks as well. He literally used one against konan.
And that's just obito with 1 MS. Imagine DMS obito/tobi. He's unstoppable. Only 6 paths can beat dms obito IMO.
I'm not sure how dms madara scales to dms obito
@@shroud4269 Stop being delusional, as if you can actually predict their encounters, they all have an almost real chance of winning against each other. Minato's victory over Itachi is not guaranteed, Your logic is really irrelevant:🤦♂️ you are too biased towards Obito, how can you say that any technique used by Itachi would be ineffective, (the same thing can be said about Obito, because Itachi isn't just any ordinary Shinobi either) so stop with these aberrations, you are not Kishimoto in person to say what technique would work and which technique would not work against the other.🤦♂️
What many have forgotten and especially you forgot, is the very unpredictable factor of Itachi's fighting style approach, the way Itachi could beat Obito in my opinion is as follows: The Explosive Clone Tactic of Itachi, (he use this in Part 1 against Kakashi and Kurenai) which will be totally in character for him and obviously it won't kill Obito but definitely will damage him. I'll give you an exemple that was happening also in the anime itself: Remember that in the confrontation between Obito and Konan, Obito noticed Konan's explosive papers and said that he could react to them in time, cancel sucking and use Kamui to face through the explosion, but it didn't work and he was got caught in the explosion and he still was damaged after that. In Itachi's case he wouldn't notice that it's a clone until it's too late, and he already would get hit by the explosion of Itachi's Clone. Still I don't think that Obito will die only from that, I mean that will be very embarrassing lmao... xD but getting damaged? 100%. And we know Itachi that in character, If the fight is serious, he doesn't messing around. So after the explosion, he will use the moment/momentum while Obito is damaged, is surprised, is stunned, Itachi will immediately rush him and stab him, set him on fire or etc... Also another way Itachi could win is with his Tsukuyomi in my opinion. Yes yes, hear me out, Itachi make a clone, uses Tsukuyomi on Obito and controls the time in the way that he trapped Kakashi during the Part 1 in their encounter, (Tsukuyomi 1 second, but in Kakashi's mind perception that second lasted 72 hours, that will mean 3 full days) So the moment Itachi hits Obito with the Tsukuyomi, and Obito just thinks of to break the Tsukuyomi, Itachi's clone already killed Obito, because they will just stand there, and Itachi has full control on time in the Tsukuyomi Nightmare Realm. So yes, it's pretty much possible. I know that is unfair and disgusting for all of you Obito's bias fans. xD But it'a a power and a factor of the Tsukuyomi that people underestimate and keep forgeting about. xD 🤷♂️
@@DavidLucian obito with his base sharingan is literally kotoamatsukami level and completely hypnotized a KAGE. Ninjutsu doesn't work on him because of kamui. Totsuka blade WILL NOT work on him. He will KAMUI OUT OF it. Obito is just as intelligent as itachi and has the same battle-wisdom as madara. Yata mirror won't do anything bc obito doesn't really even use ninjutsu like that. We know that itachi has stamina problems and obito has god level healing. He took a chicori directly to the heart and it did nothing. What will itachi do? His fire style won't work. His shuriken jutsu won't work. His only hope is mixing genjutsu and susanoo with totsuka blade or izanagi/izanami to trick obito into getting sealed. And it's more than HIGHLY likely that obitos genjutsu is even better than itachis. And obito can literally kamui himself out of being sealed. Look back to the kage summit. Obito kamui'd not only himself, but Sasuke out of a boxed in particle style with such finesse, the tsuchikage himself didn't even notice it. Itachi isn't winning dude get over it.
@@shroud4269 Again... Try the escape the Izanami loop of your pathetic delusional bias stupidity thinking. Wake up boy, the same thing can be said about Itachi, so the mention of your character is irrelevant. Itachi isn't just any ordinary Shinobi either. Kishimoto made sure that Itachi was seen as someone special and he did an incredible job in establishing that in the story. You underestimate Itachi and you downplay Itachi too much, and you don't even know how Tsukuyomi Nightmare Realm works. Their encounter could go either way, but for me Itachi has slightly better chances of winning because of his calmness, intelligence and battle IQ experience. If you remember in the first part when Itachi and Kakashi faced off, although Kakashi could see Itachi's clone, (thanks to the Sharingan) he didn't know that Itachi's clones could explode, so he caught him by surprise. Itachi's clones are legendary, unpredictable and unique, they can always catch you by surprise even in the smallest of seconds. Also, how can you leave out the fact that Itachi has an unpredictable way of fighting style approach and the forbidden Izanami technique, which is made to combat abusive Izanagi users, Itachi is very unique and authentic, especially in the factor of facing various encounters approach, his unpredictability in his way of fighting style approach it's his key factor in all of his encounters. You need to stop downplaying Itachi's way of fighting style approach, in my opinion their encounter could go either way, both of them can win against each other If you ask me. What many have forgotten is the very unpredictable factor of Itachi's fighting style: the way Itachi could beat Obito in my opinion is as follows: The Explosive Clone Tactic: Obito absorbs a clone and gets wrecked from both sides. Itachi's clone feints are legendary and unique, his clones can also explode, which we've seen from the Konan battle can be a problem for Obito to defend against. Now, if Obito can make full use of the Rinnegan, things could be different, but by his own admission, he was barely able to handle even a single Rinnegan's power, so it's unlikely he could use the full arsenal that he never showed. Obito can't fight without physical contact. Having knowledge of Izanami doesn't prevent it from happening (it is the most sublte jutsu we've ever seen), because any kind of sensation they share can be set as the anchor and there is no way of knowing which. All Obito can do is to either avoid all kinds of physical contact, and he can't fight like that, or he can just try to refrain from repeating an action more than once which is near impossible with his one trick pony skillset. Here are the things that make him so formidable. Tsukuyomi - A genjutsu so powerful that you literally can't escape it unless you have the same blood as Itachi, as stated by Itachi himself and proven later by Sasuke, or you're a jinchuriki. Jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu but it hasn't been proven, but when Bee was fighting Edo Nagato and Itachi with Naruto, he said to watch out for Tsukuyomi explicitly. Literally 99% of all opponents fighting Itachi have no way of stopping Tsukuyomi. You could have the power to split the planet in half and it wouldn't matter. (Want to know why? - Kakashi pretty much state it in the actual anime and manga that Tsukuyomi it's such a dangerous Genjutsu Technique because it happen in a instant, even if you realize that you are trapped in the Tsukuyomi, it will be too late, because Itachi could approach you (or his Explosive Clone) during that time in the real world and he can finish you before you can even realize, - 72 hours in Tsukuyomi realm means 1 second or a couple of seconds in the real world. Tsukuyomi can't be broken, when used to it's fullest.)Having knowledge about the Tsukuyomi doesn't prevent it the possibility from happening or working on another Uchiha, because Tsukuyomi as Kakashi state it, it's such a dangerous Ocular Technique because if you are caught in that Realm, it happen in an instant, (72 hours - 3 full days in that realm means a secound or a couple of seconds in the real world) even If you managed to break it out somehow, it will be too late, because the Itachi (or Itachi's Explosive Clone) could approach you in the real world until that time when you are caught in that Specific Nightmare Realm and he can damage or even kill you. The Sword of Totsuka and Yata Mirror - The Susanoo itself is a near invincible defense but these two weapons take it to the next step. The Sword of Totsuka can seal "anything" if it even touches it. It's completely OP. It's hard to fight a guy that can seal you away if his sword even touches you. The Yata Mirror is even a bigger deal in my opinion. It doesn't block attacks, it's "negates" them. You could throw an Amaterasu covered Bijuu bomb at Itachi and the Yata mirror will negate it, making it so the Susanoo doesn't even need to take a blow. You could punch the Yata mirror and the force will completely be negated. His biggest strength of all: tactical intelligence - Itachi always outsmarts and plans for everything because the plot demands it. You're physically strong? Itachi is already 2 steps ahead of you knowing exactly what to do. You're extremely fast? Again, 2 steps. You're going to try and outlast Itachi in a fight? Good luck. To add to this, some of the 3 most powerful techniques in the verse are due to his intelligence and planning ability; Izanami, Izanagi, and Kotoamatsukami. Izanami - A forbbiden genjutsu technique that allows you to alter someone's destiny. Impossible to break out of even if you know you're in a genjutsu without complying with the users set destiny for you. Even someone like Bee, a perfect Jinchuriki, can't escape Izanami unless he does what Itachi wants him to. Izanagi - You somehow gained an advantage over Itachi? He makes it so that advantage never happened. Kotoamatsukami - Though Shisui's technique, Itachi has his eye which effectively makes it his weapon. A genjutsu so powerful that the person it's cast on doesn't even know they're under a genjutsu. Like the Tsukuyomi, completely OP. To add to all of this, Itachi is pretty good/exceptional at hand to hand combat, is great with shuriken, is extremely fast, is great with regular fire techniques, is slippery and unpredictable, and has the extremely dangerous and fast Genjutsu style of fighting approach that can caught you off guard almost at any time, even If the opposite opponent is an Uchiha. With all of these things considered you've got one dangerous ninja. This is why Kishimoto basically had to give him a handicap: Naruto AIDS.🤷♂️ That's the problem with you, you're only keeping underestimate such an unpredictable Shinobi like Itachi, you're too blinded to admit it that their encounter will be unpredictable, keep downplaying Itachi like as if only your opinion mattered mister Kishimoto wannabe. xD 🤦♂️
@@DavidLucian youre an idiot lol. You ignore power scaling and established feats and lore within the show for your semantical bullshit. Give me a scenario where itachi will beat obito in a field 1v1 that actually makes sense and is plausible within the bounds of what each character can do.
I've given multiple examples of things that won't work on obito i.e fire style, shuriken jutsu etc. It's been stated multiple times within the show that genjutsu won't work on someone whos own skills with genjutsu surpass your own. Sasuke literally broke tsukuyomi and shocked itachi. You really think obito can't break tsukuyomi as well? You're an idiot if you think he can't. Amaterasu literally doesn't WORK ON HIM. he literally got hit by amaterasu unsuspectingly from Sasuke after the itachi battle and he completely survived it. Using MS abilities takes a huge stamina toll on itachi. He won't survive in a prolonged battle with obito.
As I said before and for some odd reason you refuse to accept - the only way itachi has a chance of beating obito is by combining susanoo and totsuka blade with izanagi or izanami. That's IT. accept fucking reality. You sleep on obito in order to wank itachi and it's cringe. Madara is also objectively stronger than itachi and beats him in ALL scenarios. Itachi is 3rd place just ACCEPT IT.
Feels cruel that we only get to see Itachi go all out once in a full fledged fight 😔
When did he ever go all out?
He held back against Kabuto
And he wasn't even close to full power in his Edo form..
So when did Itachi ever go all out?
@@Faustained Edo Itachi is still the strongest version in canon
@@SuperPianogirl123 doesn’t necessarily mean not holding back
@@Faustained itachi prime wouldve been killed by kabuto the first time he was sliced in half or impaled and kabuto also was holding back hoping to reprogram itachi and absorb sasuke. Kabuto>itachi
And we didn't see hiruzen go all in any fight 💀
thank you , i feel like it's swag's fault that itachi gets so much downplay regarding his stamina , even though he fought sasuke until sasuke ran outta chakra & he still had enough to take down orochimaru's strongest jutsu lol , never seen anyone say sasuke had stamina issues though ???
And all this while Itachi tired himself out on purpose, so it looks like he's actually trying. Itachi's stamina is actually pretty good, even in his weakest state.
THANK YOU. Dying Itachi’s stamina out lasted Sasuke’s, and that dude’s stamina is pretty decent.
Ticks me when everyone looks at an Itachi vs to say “Yeah, but low stamina. He’d get outlasted.”
Like, *BOI*
People constantly clown on Boruto sasuke for running out of chakra (no problem with the rest of the comment)
@@ViltrumiteIsRite99 he still gets outlasted against the people he usually put against
@accidental madness You mean when he had a RinneSharingan and he was teleporting between dimensions fighting Aliens that devour entire worlds for Chakra?
He's not shooting a fireball and running out of Chakra.. he's literally using the Strongest Dojutsu in the series to fight beings with incalculable chakra reserves.
Inb4 someone says "you didn't take into account that Hiruzan knows the 8 Gates"
He dint mentioned most of hiruzen good feats like guru guru Yamato
@@gameuniverse5973 i mean that is irrelevant since Hiruzen's stamina when he's alive is way different than the war arc when he's revived.
@@gameuniverse5973 itachi would one shot both
@@majora919 lmfao your a delusional itachi Stan troll
@@Done4good-s7w tbf him having lower stamina is heavily debatable since edos as shown don't have infinite chakra nor stamina just insane ammounts of regen along with a nerf so the question is not if he cab do it but how many times also he pulled that feat off fairly casually
4:58 eh that depends because Orochimaru was doing a lot of big number techniques for someone holding back. Especially when he essentially pulled out his trump car against Hiruzen
I wouldn't say trump card
@@lastarto he summoned the first and second Hokage that's a trump card my guy
@@codbeast914 I mean he could of used hydra of course I don't know if he had it or not but its highly possible he did.
@@lastarto I don't know think so .y wouldn't he use it before he lost his arms and had to play soul tug of war for an hour .
@@codbeast914 probably couldn't use if he was already getting his arms stolen and he was cocky.He wasn't fighting hiruzen while the edo fought and on top he didn't know he was getting was gonna get soul tugged.And I don't think going in hydra would of changed anything even if he did.After hiruzen died he didn't have any reason to use it either.
I like the idea of hiruzen being op in his prime and being stronger than Hashirama but idk most people might not
Im sure if there was more showings of hiruzen in his heyday it’d be an easier narrative to swallow. ppl just see stuff like beeg wood hands and the six paths kurama avatar and coom
I do too. It's pretty clear that Kishimoto intended Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the beginning. I'm not sure what, if anything, changed his mind.
Hashirama and Madara are probably out of the question just because of narrative reasons but realistically a Hiruzen could have been stronger than every other ninja but we have make assumptions. Some are easier to make like him being physically more capable (he's literally shown as a hunched shrinking old man.) Some assumptions are harder though like could he do FTG or sage mode?
I'm agreeing with you six. But all of Itachi encounters with orichimaru, he has lost the soul of his arms and that make him think that he needed Sasuke body. hiruzen fought with orichimaru in his best shape. You not mentioning this disappointed me. 😭😭
Lol wrong. young Itachi fucked Orochimaru out of Akatsuki and sick Itachi fought by far the strongest form of Orochimaru: The Hydra form.
“Mental amp” is just the naruto equivalent to going beyond your physical limits in life or death situations
I agree Sick Itachi > Old Hiruzen but the Hiruzen downplay is horrendous. And I don't think 3T Itachi scales over Orochimaru as directly as you made it seem. Oro was caught off guard by the strength of the genjutsu and he went to Itachi on a spur of the moment so no Edo Tensei that he used against Hiruzen.
Ik Oro was shook but he probably assumed Itachi would use Mangekyo if he tried to seriously fight, seeing as Oro was even familiar w Rinnegan.
Yet despite knowing all that, Orochimaru, after losing to Itachi the first time literally admits inferiority to him. Knowing the jutsu he knows he still never pursued Itachi again until Itachi was literally knocking on death’s door.
@@SuperEvilTurkey Did you not read my full comment bro? I already addressed that -- Orochimaru logically would have feared Mangekyou and I think we all agree MS Itachi > Orochimaru. I'm just saying as far as 3T Itachi to Oro scaling, it's pretty contentious, definitely not enough to say for sure that 3T is stronger than Oro
@@prolastmedia6171 Does Orochimaru know Itachi has the Mangekyou? I don't think its ever implied he knows
@@SRVaris Yeah it was never confirmed but heavily implied -- Oro had independent knowledge of the rinnegan so it would follow that he also knows about MS.
Plus there are other smaller supporting premises like other member of the akatsuki knowing about Itachis MS, we know Oro collected loads of secret info about the Akatsuki so again it would follow he knew about the MS.
Fugaku was said to have weilded the Mangekyou while Oro was still high ranking in the village and it was even a widespread rumor that Fugaku could've stopped the Kyuubi attack if the Uchiha had been consulted because of his MS. And Oro knows Itachi killed Fugaku so again it would be logical on his part to at least be concerned that itachi had mangekyou.
But you're right it's never directly stated, so that's why I'm not flat out saying Six is wrong, just that his claim isn't as unshakeable as he made it sound
@@SRVaris Oh and Danzo knew Shisui had Mangekyou and everyone knew about Shisui and Itachis relationship -- so since Danzo and Oro were allies at the time, Danzo probably would have told him when Oro was helping him implant Sharingan which would also lead Oro to at least worry about Itachis Mangekyou
Six said his upcoming itachi video gonna be a very big on yess , we do love big one😂.
So we just gonna ignore hiruzen having to fight the 1st and 2nd hokage right before fighting orochimaru? 😂 come on man
Fr and you can't kill em you have to seal em
they were significantly weaker
@@jamjammerson1792 not really when you take ibto account those were the same edo hokages who fought in the ninja war with naruto and hashirama was still relative to edo madara
@@jamjammerson1792 no they weren’t the only thing different is their personality was suppressed but strength was the same
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif That is just not true at all. Where did you hear this?
My favorite big boy uploaded 💕
Croc
Sus
I feel like your argument would have been stronger if you'd addressed Hiruzen's feats against Guru Guru Zetsu, which are probably his strongest imo.
Itachi has no feat over that so
That isn't old man Hiruzen
@@gameuniverse5973 Edo Itachi stomps bad
Dunno how an infinite stamina hiruzen is revelant to the video
@@LuhTwizzy__ the same edo itachi who while not in control of his body was tying with a non serious bee? Also yes ik itchi didn't us ms but bee didn't even go Into his cloaked tailed beast mode he was in straight base throwing hands
i wish we could have seen the totsuka blade/yata mirror in a serious fight where itachi isn't cosplaying as whitebeard at marineford
W the itachi downplay is crazy
L hiruzen downplay tho
@@gameuniverse5973 both underrated characters
It’s an interesting discussion - unfortunately Naruto is a terrible series for power scaling, especially when comparing part 1 to 2
It’s very obvious that power levels were supposed to cap near (slightly above) the level we saw in Orochimaru vs Hiruzen, but that ended up being such a relatively early fight that power creep broke the world - with Itachi (as much as I love him) being the prime cause and where we saw these sky rocket in Shippuden
Sage Kabuto vs the five Kage honestly a very interesting debate with both being able to counter each other also Kabuto gets almost no vs debates
Sage kabuto would stomp easily I can't see the 5kage doing. Anything to him
Kabuto fought like 2/3rds of the shinobi alliance solo. He also fought sauske and itatchi in personal combat at the same time he was fighting an entire war . I’m feeling like he’s got the 5 kage
Ohnoki is the only one who would be a threat to him and if Kabuto can put Itachi in Tayuya's genjutsu then he's definitely doing it to ohnoki.
Ur a whole clown for even thinking that’s an interesting debate
@@Rck-vert why come here and insult someone just because of a matchup question? It’s not like he asked for Choji vs Madara like it’s not that crazy of a question and even though SKabuto probably wins there are MULTIPLE ways the 5 kage get the W
(Ik this isn’t but) Equal stats I wanna know who itachi can’t beat tbh. Keep up the consistency six u been putting out good shit ‼️
My argument for Hiruzen against Itachi's genjutsu is that most likely Hiruzen is gonna have King Enma summoned. Would he be able to break him free of the genjutsu?
Definitely not tsukiyomi because of how quick it is, but a normal genjutsu sure. So basically if Itachi goes easy on him he maybe can survive a basic genjutsu lmao.
@@IlluviumGaming pretty sure hiruzen knows about how to avoid sharingan genjutsu. He literally has knowledge of all the other clan techniques if chiyo knows some common anti uchiha common sense im sure hiruzen does too.
@@Akbar_and_Shaa facts
@@IlluviumGaming Hiruzen spared a healthy Itachi’s life I think people forget that he is the only reason that even two Uchiha’s were allowed to live. If Hiruzen was confident that he could kill ALL the Uchiha I’m pretty sure he wasn’t worried about one Itachi
@Keldrick Lewis ...You do realize that Itachi got his MS outside of Hiruzen's knowledge right? All his most advanced jutsus in the series Hiruzen doesn't know about. Furthermore, Itachi was practically still a kid at that time, no one is talking about kid Itachi. I hope you're not a troll cause you got me if you are.
Fax this is a very good video and you did proper research for both fighters I give this a S plus ps I don't know if you know this or not who do you think would win between itachi vs fugaku vs shisui the battle of the mangekyo sharingan
Damn bro, you completely changed my mind. I forgot Itachi had all those abilities. I came here to disagree with you, but now I’m an agreer! Good job! 👍🏾
My only disagreement would be the third not being able to break the genjutsu .. i think king emma can help him out there but that could be arguable
They would nit be able to break them out of taukuyomi, at the very minimum.
For others, maybe. Itachi has crazy genjustu, even other specialists In genjustu were literally helpless.
@@galatic-wyvern2993 i know that your right and even just one second in itachi genjutsu its already over 😂 i just said its arguable for the itachi haters
@@nevernicegaming Honestly, if Tsukuyomi wasn't THAT fast, then they would have an argument honestly. but... a pico second? lol.
Hiruzen is probably the biggest victim of power creep I've ever seen. Completely unfair to completely overlook his edo feats.
One question I'm always curious about. I could absolutely be wrong but in the vein of show me vs tell me, what has amatartsu ever done in the show? Every use of it i remember gets sluffed off or dodged. It's like talking about fire style but what or when has fire style ever been successful against someone.
This was my thought. I feel like ppl analyze like this dbz. No hiruzen can't penetrate a susanno but how long can itachi play waka a mole.
As far as I remember, A did lose one of his arms to it and it also defeat bee's tailed beast form, it's both happens when sasuke use it though. But I feel like we still shouldn't downplay it for itachi though, because the time he did use it narratively he doesn't really want to kill the target (Jiraya and Sasuke)
@@ジェジェガロン not trying to downplay for itachi. Just I hear both fire style jutsu and amatarsu and between Manga and anime with the way they're talked about they seem to have very little feats
@@ジェジェガロン bee dog walked sauskes squad then took a vacation .a is just has a battle iq of 5
@@ジェジェガロン tbf ay lost his arm more or less on purpose and it didn't really do shit to killer be he just left a clone to get caught
You covered this very well.
Hiruzen has nothing to break genjutsu lmfao
His summon can break him out of it
@@gameuniverse5973 itachi 100% in character uses genjutsu right off the bat but hiruzen doesnt always have his summoning out with him
cool vid. i think hiruzen could def find a way to avoid the amaterasu but cool vid.
What I find really interesting: Think of all the Jutsus Hiruzen knows (kinda all of the leaf) and THEN think which combination would help Hiruzen vs. Itachi.
So counters I have for this debate is itachi defeated a orochimaru that is years younger and we know orochimaru trained and prepped for his battle with hiruzen. And itachi just received a huge sharingan and mental amp from recently murdering his clan and abandoning the village. The outcome of the fight doesn’t change really but that is one point I wanted to state.
Valid fr
You think Itachi didn't grow stronger in that time?
@@cloudj232 I don't think he would have gotten much stronger due to him getting sick.
@@cloudj232 he literally said itachi had a Amp also depending on when he caught his illness could go either way
We also saw orochimaru get one shot by the totska blade.
And sure, it's an instant kill attack, but do you think orochimaru would WANT that big fuckoff sword hitting him, even if he didn't recognize it?
Nah, itachi speed blitzes poor orochimaru, sad to say
W thumbnail bro
Itachi wins no diff.
Who gon tell him
@@6paths988 who gone tell you 💀
@@mh3ey who tell you?
@@mh3ey Hiruzen slams in his prime
💀💀💀💀Lmfao bruh you fucking kill me Six, idk why I laughed so hard when you monotonely said "They serve as a great distraction and deal splash damage" all i keep imagining is in the old Pokemon games every time Magikarp would attack someone lol😂😂
7:16 couldn't Enma break him out if the summon is active?
Yes if he doesnt get sealed or put in genjutsu
@@manny9191 he still can but if you assume that he’d start a 1v1 with Enma then Enma could help if he recognizes Tsukuyomi fast enough. Tsukuyomi is still ridiculously fast and damaging. There’s also no evidence Enma would come out immediately as he didn’t bring him out during his fight with Orochimaru until after a while of fighting the first and second Hokage for awhile.
@@SuperEvilTurkey well tsyukomi affects the brain directly not the chakra, so he wouldn't be able to break himself out. And if its a blood lusted itachi he would kill him before he realised with the tsyukomi. But normal genjutsu he could release if good enough
@@manny9191 I totally agree I’m just entertaining the hypothetical possibility of even if Enma is there for him to stop significant damage he’d have to be VERY quick.
@@SuperEvilTurkey yeah i hear you and to be honest we dont know enmas fastest speed so who knows but making it a 2 vs 1 on itachi can help due to the low stamina. Although itachi is great at chakra control
7:19 That's Chiyo though she is a big name ninja but i am not sure that's the case for ninja on a higher scale for example most Uchiha were like "Hey we need Shisui's busted ass genjutsu in order to take down Hiruzen"
His genjutsu was supposed to be used on Fugaku to stop internal conflict. Chiyo fought fuckin Hanzo dude who was owning literally every single shinobi he ran across during the third great shinobi war.
@@SuperEvilTurkey the Uchiha wanted to use it on hiruzen but shisui sided with the leaf and was going to use it on fugaku before danzou got involved
@@SuperEvilTurkey also wasn't hanzo stated to be equal to hiruzen if not weaker than him
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif not stated but it might be implied. I brought up Hanzo because my man’s acting like Chiyo wasn’t out during the war raising hell for the strongest ninja out there until Tsunade countered her poison.
@@ftdfijturidtunyjhuif the Uchiha wanting something and Shisui and Itachi wanting something are two different things. Shisui and Itachi were more aligned with the village and trying to maintain peace. The Uchiha wanted to overthrow the leadership.
Edo Hiruzen matching that Buda statue attack stomps any physical feat from Itachi. I'm not sure if it's an outlier, but if you use that feat and him outspeeding Edo Tobirama, then Edo Hiruzen stomps, but alive Hiruzen would probably lose to prime Itachi.
Edo Hiruzen stomps it not a outlier Shikimaru himself says they need hiruzen
Sometimes I just open this video because I see a distorted Itachi saying "appoint a new Hokage"
I agree itachi is better. But it feels like it’s mostly because of genjutsu. Give old man hiruzen te same level of ocular genjutsu … or like anyone for that matter, and I feel like they could accomplish a similar feet. I think having an ability that the opponent has NO RESISTANCE to is a easy way to just beat them without technicalally being “stronger” than them. I mean even when itachi fights orochimaru a second time he uses hax again (totsuka blade). For once I’d love to see itachi fight someone on his level without some random hax that allows him to strait up bi pass durability. Idk
I know I am probably going to get a lot of hate for this. But I have to bring this up either way.
Sarutobi was stated to be the strongest Kage in the village in Naruto Classic. (First Databook, page 162)
He supposedly suprassed Tobirama when he was still young. Just as a side note
We know that Madara was stated to be the most powerful Uchiha and we know that Hashirama is more powerful than Madara.
That means that we are in a deadlock.
Because we have seen Hiruzen be far weaker than Itachi. However Statements make it clear that he should be leagues above him.
These kind of match ups don't really make sense if we can't assume both characters are at their peak strength.
One of these characters is loved by the fanbase for a touching, emotional moment where he decided to make a sacrifice that would reverberate throughout the story and inspire several characters' actions moving forward.
The other is a pretty boy.
The Real Winner? From a narrative standpoint, Hiruzen Sarutobi.
💀they are both characters that made sacrifices for their loved ones. Itachi even moreso because he merced his entire family🫠
A lot of people dislike Hiruzen though
Hiruzen is not a pretty boy!! Wtf you talking about 🤣🤣
Literally at no point does the manga indicate that Hiruzen or even one of his students stand any chance against Itachi.
No, lol. He is a worse character narratively and much less loved. Stop it.
It seems like Naruto characters (male or female) are the strongest around 30-50. Kinda of like the peak of success for most men.
That statemenet hiruzen knows all techniques is conflicted by tsunade saying only the 4th and jiraya can use the rasengan
That clearly contradicts Kashi knowing the rasengan, so idk
I agree but tsunade definetly knows hiruzen and kakashi only kno cuz he copied hiruzen cant so its hard to tell if her stament is wrong or if kakashi is an exception to the rule
@@amonvanderburg Tsunade has not been in the leaf village so she not reliable
Tsunade was in the village and knows abouth hiruzen and minato and jiraya her absence in the time wouldnt affect tht
@@amonvanderburg you forgot about the forbidden scroll of sealing didn't you
Old vs Sick
In reality it should be Young vs Healthy but we never seen either character fight all out in that state
Considering Itachi is a good match for Minato, and most of the community puts Minato above Hiruzen anyways, I'd say it all makes sense.
But let's see Itachi vs Tobirama. I feel like that would be a fun fight - not necessarily because I think Tobirama is stronger than Hiruzen (because I'd actually say they're pretty close from what scaling I've seen) but because Tobirama has developed pretty much everything in his arsenal to defeat Uchihas specifically. Plus, y'know, he's the ultimate Uchiha hater.
Itachi is a good match for Minato🤣
@@lightVs.DarkBalance yeah I misspoke on that one. I don't think Itachi is anywhere near as strong as Minato, just that it's an interesting fight that gets talked about a lot
@@orionsarrow2119 Minato has nothing against genjutsu tho. I don't know why wouldn't he just lost to Itachi the way Orochimaru did. Saying Minato could resist or break Itachi's genjutsu is just a baseless assumption and sounds very unlikely to me, because why would he?
And since they're in the same speed tier, they're able to react and keep up with each other, I just don't see what's Minato gonna do, tbh.
@@Stolas9 see, that second paragraph is your issue - Itachi and Minato are nowhere NEAR the same speed. Iirc, Minato is directly stated to be the fastest ninja to have ever lived. And before you say it, I don't think Itachi scales to KCM Naruto in terms of speed, either. It was pretty obvious Naruto wasn't trying to seal Itachi right away because he needed Intel. Whereas he had to use every ounce of his concentration and effort to outspeed A, who Minato already scaled above in base form.
Also, you would think that if Obito could put Minato under genjutsu, he would have at least tried during their fight, and he didn't. And Obito scales as a pretty close second to Itachi in terms of genjutsu.
Minato also knows not to look Itachi in the eye, he's not getting hit by Amaterasu, he can teleport to Itachi to bypass his Susano'o completely, and if you really wanna be sad, remember that Minato has sage mode to increase his speed even more and enable him to fight with his eyes closed. Itachi really has nothing on Minato.
@@Stolas9 sage mode let's Minato just close his eyes like Kabuto gg
I wonder if genjutsu will work on shadow clones? Itachi couldn't cast his illusion on one of Kakashi clones, so if Hiruzen will use them as he usually does it will be much more difficult for Itachi to catch him.
Hiruzen during that whole fight with Orochimaru was only able to do 2 clones but in Edo was doing 5 at most. Itachi can make multiple clones as well so that's not going to make it difficult especially when Itachi can make his clones explode in command which 1 of those could take out all of Hiruzen's clones at once if planned Right
@@kaimobley5324 true
If minato isn't slower than Tonbirama because of "mental nerf". (I know you feel that way as a professional minato throater) Then Old Hiruzen can't be argued to be even be relative to Orochimaru. He started winning as soon as he started trying. After already suffering immense damage. That is literally the same parameters as Sasuke vs Itachi.
- You literally reference Hiruzen vs Orochimaru as an example of a mental nerf for whatever video you were capping for Minato yet again.
- Why are you talking about Itachi's nature transformations when hiruzen knows all of them. You could argue that he's better at fire style, but could still be countered with water style at BEST.
- Man really said Hiruzen would fall for Substitution.
- " Chiyo said that you need another ally to break out of ocular genjutsu" YOU MEAN LIKE ENMA? A summon that is relative to hiruzen?
- "Naruto warned bee about Amaterasu in KCM, so it still must be dangerous to him" Bee has literally been hit by Amaterasu already at this point.
- Do you honestly think Itachi didn't get a mental amp after getting hit by Kirin? Him fighting the hydra should be his strongest state alive, as he is literally protecting sasuke from getting his body stolen. If he took Kirin from somebody else he probably wouldn't have gotten back up.
- The Yata Mirror has to be defeated by at LEAST the same mechanism that truth seeker barriers were defeated. And Hiruzen has both Yin and Yang release
At best Itachi needs MS to win 10/10 times. I think the reason why you hear this argument a lot is because its easy to poke a lot of holes in your argumentation.
That last point is not a valid argument, Yes Hiruzen has Yin release and Yang release, but not Yin-Yang release, although is possible for an non-six paths character to learn Yin-Yang release (Obito and Madara did it, check chapter 606 "Dream World"), Hiruzen never did.
Other than that, those are very good arguments, I had never though about some of them before.
My boi hiruzen gonna get disrespected here in this vs even tho as Edo he fought guru guru Yamato,was able to get to save Naruto before Tobirama,and was able to throw the full nine tails out of the village Edo Hiruzen should slam any version of itachi
We all want minato vs itachi‼️‼️‼️
These power scaling videos and channels are so funny they try to quantify qualitative variables all the time, but, if the barrator wants something to happen it will, regardless of if it makes sense or not. That's probably the most annoying thing about fiction, people who should win don't if the writer doesn't want them to. In summary, Itachi and all his crows get mogged by Hiruzen. He then married Kushina and births Naruto
No this didn't happen matter of fact stfu please 😭😭
I think there’s definite arguments in a lot of series, a good writer should make it so you don’t think this after all, but Naruto is one where (especially later on) this is 100% true
Take Itachi as an example, since he’s the topic here, he kept getting new abilities just to let him win, heck the fact that his quick skirmish against Kakashi pretty much wore him out completely, yet when he fought Sasuke (while practically on his death bed) Itachi kept pulling massive Jutsu like it was nothing goes to show just how prevalent this was (and I won’t even start with Madara and how he screams this)
people really should stop using data books to power scale, theyre almost always written by a third party and then "approved" by the author. This approval is basically just an okay and there is no chance that theyre going through them with a fine tooth comb and making sure everything is correct.
Itachi low diffs
Hopefully you read my comment, many years ago I remember kishimoto said that prime hiruzen beats itachi, jiraiya, this what I just said is not a lie and this was said like 10 years ago
I’ll take Prime Hiruzen
featless Prime?
@@raijin7793 if by going off Edo Hiruzen then just saying prime hiruzen probably blinks it's bi
I haven’t even started the video yet but I’m just going to say outright that Hiruzen old gets bodied …. Easily. And Hiruzen Prime probably wins in a high difficulty fight.
Itachi is individually stronger than all the Kages that fought Madara. Even if Hiruzen summons 3 of the top Anbu Black Ops who watched his fight against Orochimaru the outcome would still remain in Itachi as the victor.
Hiruzen matching a dude who beating the five Kage and Shinobi alliance in a fight yet itachi is winning we hat
Do you mean Madara vs the 5 kage?
@@jasonmoukala8909 I mean Itachi can beat each of the 5 Kages in 1v1 (individually). Madara can beat them all together.
@@cheviidevii how is he beating ohnoki particle style capable of destroying Madara humanoid susanno? How is beating raikage speed?
@@jasonmoukala8909 Onoki is not fast enough or has an ability to cut Itachi's vision off and if for some weird reason he is able to hit Itachi with Particle Style by using some unexplained binding jutsu Itachi could simply Izanagi his way out of it or use his Spirit Shield since Onoki doesn't have Senjutsu or Six Path Technique to breach its defense. The real question is can Onoki dodge Amaterasu because Itachi would launch it faster than his Particle Style and I don't recall Onoki being a lightning speedster.
Exactly want i needed for my lunch break
Hiruzen slams
💀 delusional
Slams who?
Nah fam full power itachi obliterates hiruzen so bad it's not even funny
Hiruzen gets embarrassed brodie
Edo Hiruzen craps on any itachi feats
Orochimaru > Hiruzen. Itachi toys with Orchimaru and makes him sweat heavy.
Hiruzen get's stomped but the databook does say he has the "strongest firestyle"
When doing versus you should add a segment where obito has both his sharigans
Kcm Minato vs sage susanoo ems Sasuke honestly one of the weirdest debates i can think of
Minato rolls sasuke
I think that's only a debate because EMS sasuke outsped KCM Minato in one of the panels right?
@@azureflow9972 no not even close
@@therealprophet2488 I agree with you but it did happen in chapter 641 when the TSO was about to explode Sasuke's susano was able to shield naruto faster than Minato could move
@@azureflow9972 minato for one was mentally nerfed from obito berating him cause later on we see minato blitz 8th gates guy and teleport the TSO from juubidara away
I only now noticed something... Madara was never really a Genjutsu user, because of that Hashirama never really had to care about genjutsu, but Itachi is another type of fighter, how does Hashirama deal with genjutsu on the level of tsukoyomi ?
Hashirama blitz him with wood clones and Madara literally genjustu the full nine tails so wtf are you talking about
He won't even get caught in it lol, Hashirama would just flare his chakra and Itachi would probably just die.
He was so strong that he was able to completely resist control from the reanimation jutsufrom a stronger orochimaru a jutsu that brought him back in the first place imo I think his strength would just neg genjutsu
@@gameuniverse5973 Genjutsu Kurama or any tailed beast is the easiest thing to do if you're and Uchiha with MS. Kid Obito could genjutsu Kurama and then a few years later Obito couldn't genjutsu a 10 years old, Sharinganless Itachi, because he just casually resisted the genjutsu. Itachi would easily be able to genjutsu and control Kurama.
Don't get me wrong, Hashirama stomps Itachi, I'm just saying that Madara controlling Kurama isn't really a good genjutsu feat.
Tsukiyomi is haxxx. No reason to debate something which can not be debated. Hashirama is the goat but thats like saying Hashirama would resist the totsuka blade (point being it should work on any being).
It's one of "those don't get hit by this techniques".
Just cause someone can potentially beat someone doesn't mean that they are greater.
Example....Batman beats DC mega villains with enough prep .. rediculous I know
Old Hiruzen defeated Orishimaru, and edi ten Sai Hashirama and Tobirama. He would've destroyed Itachi if they fought.
It’s amazing how people will claim Orochimaru was caught off guard but then simultaneously ignore that Orochimaru himself admits that he is inferior to Itachi, so much so that the only time he even tries to take him on again is when Itachi is on the BRINK of dying.
It’s amazing how people say “given what we know about prime Hiruzen” we can assume that Itachi at least loses to that Hiruzen. But what do we really know about prime Hiruzen? Because there’s maybe a handful of statements on said version of Hiruzen and they leave tons of room for speculation.
Edit: bare in mind if there was even the slightest amount of relativity that the writers wanted to portrait between Orochimaru and Itachi… you can guarantee there would be an ACTUAL fight between the two so that they could display said RELATIVITY.
But no the writers went out their way to portray Orochimaru as weak by comparison
Okay okay to keep this short and simple.
Ik hirozen at this point in the story is past his prime buuut in his fight with Orochumaru he struggled greatly in fact he died as a result of that fight.
That orochumaru at the time was sooo scared shitless of Itachi he had to prey on his little brother as a child to get what he wanted.
Hmph Hiruzen had little screentime in the war to not minimize his sacrifice. Kishimoto had no other choice to brought him for the sake of fanservice.
No wonder why we don't get to see jiraiya, konan and kisame.
Oh and kakuzu has little screen time too.
He had no choice with Itachi, the arc was already sucking and he needed to brought him back for the sake of relevancy.
Kishimoto also knew he couldn't bring Hiruzen back in his prime too else he'd be caught out in his bullshit world building when he made prime Hiruzen levels above Hashirama in part 1.
@@commander1suv492 He fought weaker versions of Hashirama lol
the war arc wasn't even bad tho. if u pay attention u will realise that
The war arc is good to me tbh it’s just the critics and manga readers who judge every tiny flaw who label it as bad I loved the war and the whole Indra and ashura backstory. Also Provided us with a bunch of more lore on the naruto verse that I always wondered about and wanted to know. Now in boruto they’re continuing off that lore while giving his son his own story and own set of reasons why he has to get involved in the otsustsuki business that the shinobi from the beginning of times started cough cough Hagoromo, cough cough Hamura spreading the teachings of ninshū like it was candy. Now lord boruto will be the one to clean all the bs these people started while even having the otsutsuki gods eye! 😈⚡️💜
@@Not_obligated2care fax bro they just tryna complain for the sake of it when it was fantastic writing on kishi’s part
you forgot to mention Itachi literally has another OP thing called Shisuis eye Kotoamasukami anyone who faces Itachi are fucked hahaha 😂
I still can't get over the fact that a quote on quote formal debater claims susanoo is weaker than the user and beats me in 3 eye madara vs pre kaguya naruto or sasuke individually with it
"The Wrist Flicker technique"
Simply saying someone wins because they are more powerful is always funny… There are plenty of fights where the person is weaker but wins against a stronger opponent. In fact, every sound ninja is stronger outright than the 11, however they are smarter, shown. Also there is nothing the 3rd has that itachi can’t outthink or out power. The same can’t be said at all for the 3rd. The bringer of darkness justu is also void when itachi can have shadow clones on the field without the other person knowing he did it. He does this against sasuke while throwing Shuriken at light speed…
Y'know what the thumbnail reminds me of,
When Itachi pulls up to check on Sasuke in part 1:
No Hatred?
Itachi is kinda like pain, he's the top of the pre power cliff characters in the war arc.
Nah orange mask Obito exist
@@gameuniverse5973 I mean yeah, obito is there aswell, but he's really strange to talk about since he's just messing around of straight up lying for like 80% of shippuden.
@@gameuniverse5973 he’s not the main focus of pre power cliff. And he’s not stronger than itachi or pain.
@@167kinggam orange mask Obito is stronger even Minato confirms this
I agree with all of this except for the bringer of darkness argument. Wasn't that specifically made to combat the Uchiha?
Doesn't really change anything but Sasuke can put amaterasu directly on people
Is that why the raikage dodged it?
@@Rck-vert the raikage is fast…. it’s as if you forgot he fought minato head on. Of course chad minato let him live but he was still fast enough to be on par with him meanwhile no other shinobi can even get close to him as the raikage did. He was like a split second from hitting minato but minato wasn’t phased lol. My point being that’s the proof we need as to why he dodge Sasuke’s amaterasu
Before watching the vid, I thought about the difference between the two and Orochimaru.
Imagine having a family member with multiple sclerosis, watching this and hearing him talk at legnth about Itachi's MS. lol
Sarutobi would probably knew itachi's techniques, he would be prepared for itachi techniques when fight starts, we saw a few techniques of sarutobi, knowing that sarutobi knows millons nijutsus
Itachi in the thumbnail be like “no bitches?”
You said he couldn’t break out of genjutsu, but his monkey summon can
1000% agree 👍🏾 🔥
How can anyone deny this