How To Setup a Magnetic Pick Up Distributor For Sniper EFI
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Congratulations on your purchase of a Sniper EFI system. The Sniper EFI system is compatible with several popular ignition configurations. In this video I am going to show you how to properly wire and set up the system for magnetic pickup distributor using the ECU to control timing.
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The reference angle is a BIG DEAL! Solved my timing problem.
Notes:
1. Most Engines turn clockwise when standing in front and looking at the balancer/damper...
2. BTDC = Before Top Dead Center... Which indicates all spark events happen before the piston comes up to the top on the compression stroke TDC... So all your timing marks are going to be before top dead center...
3. Always rotate clockwise and don't backup, slack in the timing chain could lead to setting it up wrong...
4. Make sure your distributor is locked out doesn't have vacuum or mechanical advance...
5. Note the way the rotor turns and place spark plug wires around the cap in the firing order...
6. Dwell time is the amount of time power is sent through the coil to change it before the spark event, when the ground side is lifted(power stops flowing) the coil makes a spark....
For those looking to phase the rotor, I also use a laser pointer. It costs like 5 bucks and I take the pointer tape the on switch and then take the laser pointer itself and tape it to the throttle body. Ill adjust the beam until it points right dead middle of the terminal of the cap. Then I will take the cap off and see where the pointer is pointing too. I will then adjust the rotor to be dead center of the beam. I will then reinstall the cap, check the dot to ensure its still center and then take the cap off to reaffirm. Once I'm happy, I install the cap and call it good. After install, I still have to adjust the distributor slightly to allow the distributor to fire what the ECU is commanding. I have found that no matter what, the distributor is at least a few degrees retarded and must be advanced once the engine is up and running.
Thank you. Follow directions to the book and my 66 chevelle SS started on the first start.
So the distributor is stabbed at 45° BTDC and then you phase the rotor back to the "all in timing" correct?
Should I take into consideration Cranking ignition timing when utilizing the minimum and maximum timing to determine the timing curve midpoint?
This is the video the directions reference but the steps are different. In the book it is:
Set crank to 15° BTDC
Phase Rotor -15°
Install and
Align body and rotor to #1
Lockdown body
Verify aligned to #1
If not rotate the body.
The manual says should not need to change reference angle
I'm missing something with what this is trying to accomplish.
I noticed the same thing, on the magnetic set up . The duel sync instructions mentioned 50 degree btdc before pulling old distributor . Kinda perplexing.
I agree, read that too. Makes no sense. Wouldn't you rather want to get to 15deg BTDC on the balancer, the phase the rotor to line up with spark plug 1 exactly? That should in theory set the timing to 15 advance right? Then in the handheld, you tell it that static timing is set to 15. Because if you set the rotor to -15 as well, if you can even get it dead on, then it'll just fire the spark when you're right on TDC and that's actually a bad thing. You never want to fire at 0 (most of the time, there are exceptions but this wouldn't be one of them). Some advance is safer.
Hey Holley, why don’t you answer people’s questions on here? Maybe save you some calls since we can’t get through on the phones! Using 45 as a reference on a 6 cylinder means it lands dead center between pickups and the adjustment won’t reach. I’m assuming that was meant for an 8cyl? Can we use 60 for 6 cyl? Cracks me up that the manual mentions nothing about this!!
It also says right in the Sniper manual that the reference angle setting should not be changed from what’s in it (and it’s not 45).
Pull up your program on the laptop go to Ignition Parameters and pick "Magnetic" for this type of MSD magnetic pickup distributor in this video and tell me what the reference angle says....Ill bet you a million dollars the "Magnetic" setting when chosen says 45* angle by default which means what holley recommends for the type of ignition...
Also to add more I was told by a Holley tech some engines may need alot more timing than 45* and in that case you can start out at 60* then you need to set the reference angle in Ignition Parameters manually to 60* to jive unless youre running boost or nitrous ofcourse then it gets set at 15* but reference angle in ignition parameters must reflect the angle the pickup is initially set to..........................
But anyways pull up your program pick magnetic and tell me what your screen says for default reference angle......Ill bet youll never reply after getting smacked with reality because you'll be a million bux light while gaining free enlightenment....
Ill bet youre gonna quote 15* as per the manual and that is to verify how accurate your timing control is when verifying with a timing light so you can make corrections for 100% accuracy also Holleys lowend number for higher hp boosted/nitrous engines..
Everything in this video is 100% on the money dead nuts accurate information!!!
@@SmokedTirez It was set for 56.5 degress (or something very close to that)> The Jeep is long gone and the customer is fine without timing control. The moral of the story here is I had my tech spend over 2 hours on the phone with Holley and the tech even admitted that he was not an expert on timing control so he went and got a second more experienced tech on the line and they were not able to solve it.
One tip is if you have an engine with some mileage especially a stickshift vehicle those people need to change the timing gears and timing chain also verify TDC when doing so for 100% timing accuracy off the bat.....If you start out with a stretched chain getting an accurate result is moot...
Keep the carb
the wiring connection is it the same for the marine msd ready to run distributor?
I'm curious why you pulled out the HEI and used a different distributor.
Isn't the HEI a magnetic pickup distributor?
It is magnetic pickup but it also has a module inside it that controls dwell time and coil saturation time limiting reference angle to 10* instead of 45*-60* the MSD distributor is able to utilize plus the MSD Pro Billet is alot more smoother and alot more accurate than the HEI especially when utilizing timing control......
In phasing the rotor in this video, the pickup coil and reluctor are lined up with the harmonic balancer at 45 degrees. And then the engine is rotated to 30 degrees in which at that time the adjustment is made to the rotor. Isn't the phasing of the rotor to distributor cap in relation to the pickup coil/reluctor no matter in what degree of rotation of the crank? So if you set the crank at 30 degrees, wouldn't you want the pickup coil/reluctor lined up then phase the rotor to distributor cap?
Hence the 45 degree referrence angle and the REPHASEABLE ROTOR thats needed..They cost around $40 bux.......When you do the initial dial-in to drop in the distributor you also want to get the pointer as close to #1 wire position as possible then you align the reluctor lock it down roll engine to maximum useasble timing in my case I started at 45* btdc to set referrence angle then set the balancer mark to 30* then took a modified dist cap and dialed-in the rotor to #1 wire position so now my engine is setup at a 45* referrence angle with a median timing setting of 30* within that 45* setting..Only time you need 60* referrence angle is when you need higher that 45* of timing as max timing..............After 1 revolution of cranking the ECU senses the reluctor then fires the engine at the right time through internal mathematical compensation....The only thing I did that was a lil different from this guy is I set the blue pickup to reluctor blade just slightly ahead of the #1 terminal...This to me makes sense in setting the 45* referrence as the pickup is now set at the 45* mark ahead of the spark that happens at #1 directly and not a 1 rotation delay..
Also a tip for using the $40 rephaseable rotor//...........When it comes time to do a cap n rotor change you can just simply replace the pickup thong and the brass tip on the rephaseable rotor from a cheaper fixed rotor to save $$$$$
If using @Smoked Tierz tip which is good, you just need to make sure there isn't any carbon tracking in the plastic cap(this could cause the spark to go where it isn't supposed to) and it's very clean...
EXCELLENT VIDEO!! Thank you.
Hinged handle. The square drive on a breaker bar slides up and down the lever.
Need some help! The ignition is much more advanced on the timing lamp than the ECU says.
I have a terminator X with a MSD pro billet magnetic pickup (PN85501). It’s a Chevy 571. What I have done:
1. I set the engine in 50* BTDC.
2. I adjust the elector wheel so it lines with the pickup sensor.
3 lock the distributor.
4. Rotating the engine to 30* BTDC
5. Phasing the adjustable rotor so it lines with the 1 tower of the cap.
6. In the Terminator X I set the reference angle at 50* and the inductive delay to 130.
7. I start the engine and set the static timing to 5* in the terminator X. But the timing lamps is showing 45* it’s a difference of 40*
What I’m I doing wrong!
I appreciate if someone can help me what to do.
Thanks, Philip.
I have a 4 cylinder engine, so with only having 4 exciters on the distributor shaft, do I have to set my ignition reference at 90 degrees btdc?
Can I hook the ECU signal purle/green wire to my ready to run distributor ? My 6al2 already use the red and white point output wire to the distributor...
In the video; when he starts showing the process for the msd ignition box wiring do I not use the purple and green wires from the ignition box? Am I only using the white POINTS? I assume you already figured it out because I’m 2 years too late lol
Better off with a carburetor, way to many issues with setting up. Wish I never bought.
that was very good, thanks
Where’s the purple and orange wires plug too?
So if I change my reference angle on my handheld to 60°, do I then need to re-sync a reluctor wheel with the pickup pole with my engine at 60°? Also, if the pickup pole is between reluctor wheels, does it matter which direction I rotate it to align it? Thanks.
Yes. In this case with timing the cart cannot come before the horse.
You must align the mag pickup based off the engine position per the balancer in this case 60 degrees BTDC, then lock the distributor down.
Now you have to tell sniper that when it “sees” a signal that equates to 60 degrees BTDC by setting that value in the hand held.
If you didn’t do that and just set a value in the handheld you will screw your timing up. If for example you set the reference angle at 60 degrees on the distributor and then set 45 in the handheld, your entire timing map will be off by 15 degrees, at every point!
Same process when doing initial setup according to Holley that suggests you set the sniper up without timing control first then go into the timing control later on and neglects to say that the initial process of setting the distributor up to 15* must now be re-done and reset at 45-60*...............
If it did would you buy the system knowing its doing things twice sometimes thrice to have everything run and jive all nice...?
It’s a suggestion to do timing later. I set mine up all at once. The instructions truly aren’t hard to follow. That’s why we hot rod, this exploratory stuff is fun and when it works the thrill is what keeps me wanting to do more
@@jeffsnyder4290 I must be a terrible hot roder lol. I’m struggling here lol.
what Model Distributor is he using ?
Can you do this same set up with terminator Stealth? Are you required to run a CD box with an MSD dizzy? What is the difference between an MSD 6a/6al and an MSD 6EFI?
Ryan Kramer it depends on the dizzy. For example the dizzy I have pn 8579 requires a CD ignition box. Most magnetic pick up dizzys from MSD will require a CD box. As for differences in the CD box it's just different functions. For example the digital 6plus has alot more functions than the 6al version. I hope this helps.
Great video. Is the baseline reference point of 45^ the same for SBF as on your Chevy in the video?
Probably a lil too late but for someone else needing an answer: If youre using a magnetic pickup distributor its 45-60* reference angle if utilizing the timing control and 15* if using a mechanical advance , for a dual sync is 50* and the TFI setup is 10* for SBF..
@@SmokedTirez I’m really struggling with this video lol. What’s the point of going from 45 to 30? I’m a SBF 347.
45 degree is for the reference angle when the magnetic pickup aligns with the relucter tooth. 30 is centralized cap and rotor phasing. Assuming the ig timing swing is 20 to 40 middle of that being 30 degrees.
also, I set my ignition reference angle to 60 and it caused some EMI do to phasing that needs to be reset. IF your idle bounces on the screen from 1000 to 2000 or something like that causing chaos on the timing, you more than likely have EMI issues, set the min ref voltage to .5V and set the filtering to high. This can only be done on a laptop btw. 'Merica.
Did you set balancer to 60* to coincide with your 60* pickup reference angle choice then after that did you then dial-in #1 wire position with your adjustable rotor ?...If not you cant just adjust the number without also doing the setting at the distributor manually aswell unless youre running a DIS-Less coil on plug system...Fudged setups end in poor results
Yes the mag pickup in the distributor is clocked 60 degrees BTDC on the #1. The only way to set time is off the balancer. Using a mag distributor in this application serves as a cam sensor for Sniper to know where the engine is location wise.
Setting the ref angle at 60 degrees gives the Sniper 60 degrees worth of time to advance or retard the ignition, as it is registering the #1 cylinder moving into place. So if it commands 30 degrees BTDC, sniper has time to register the cylinder position based on mag pickup induction and then wait the time until the engine is moved to 30 degrees BTDC and the command a fire.
Phasing the rotor is due to rotor and stator not being completely inline causing potential spark scatter, weak spark, excessive EMI, electrode corrosion etc etc. so phasing the rotor means aligning the components so they are as lined up as can be so the spark jump inside the cap from the rotor to the terminal during the most average spark doesn’t cause those issues.
Yes you’ll set ref angle, and phase rotor to what the instructions say with the adjustable rotor P/N listed in the instructions I believe.
Then go through the ign setup and set you parameters. Check your work by locking the timing at like 20 degrees or so (done in sniper on handheld) then using a timing light check timing at 3000 rpms or so and see how close sniper holds it at 20 degrees or whatever you set. The instructions will tell you depending on what the ignition does, how much to change your setup values. I can’t remember the setting name of the top of my head...
Read the instructions, I’m not the brightest and I walked myself through. Good luck!
17:40 So the system never ever advances the timing past the initial setting of 15 degrees like in a centrifugal advance distributor ? Even with an increase in engine speed no advance is required ?
The ECU does all the advancing and retarding of the timing with this set-up. The distributor is locked and no longer has effect on timing. thx J
If youre using an MSD magnetic distributor you need to set the reference angle to 45* as per "Magnetic" setting in "Ignition Parameters"..That default number in the degree angle box has a huge meaning in how the ECU interpets where to reference TDC in relation to the base setting in your spark table......!!!...
If you set the base to 15* and didnt phase the rotor and kept the reference angle at 45* your ECU is overworking bigtime to keep everything running.....
Welcome to the world of full phase tuning..Part of full phase tuning is the calibration of everything with-in the system and then verifying that everything being read by the ECU is 100% or 99.999999% accurate with them findings to get accurate results.......You fudge the setup numbers/variables/settings and you get a fudged outcome...
Even the sensors need to be checked for accuracy...put a manual temp gauge in the coolant read the temp then verify on the handheld then adjust offset to get both the same if they both dont jive...Same thing goes for the MAT sensor......Read ambient air temp or manifold temp with point n aim gun then verify on the handheld then adjust offset to make it accurate....
Any inconsistencies in setup will result in a totally wrong formula and an end result resulting in possible disaster from an uncalibrated unsure ECU running off of false variables aswell as a Slower and Hotter running ECU....
Case in point...I had a Monte Carlo with an aftermarket digital speed gauge... The car topped out at 127mph with the 383 stroker and 3.08's....
One night I changed the tire diameter to something ridiculous and took my buddies out for a 2am blaster...To this day they still swear theyve never been in anything faster than that stock chassis stock suspension Monte Carlo with BF Goodrich T/A's on it that I had back in the day that according to the fudged numbers in the gauge setup showing us going 181.7mph flat out....LOL
Hi can the sniper work on a mazda mps 2.3 turbo
Not unless you have a custom intake manifold that lets you use a 4 barrel carb style throttle body. The sniper ecu is inside the throttle body (basically a fuel injected carburetor)
Wow I didn't realize how much a PITA a GM distributor install is. Lol
Why are you telling people to set the ignition reference angle to 45 degrees when folks who set the ECU to control timing will have cruise timing set to atleast 40 if not 45 degrees? Doesn't the ECU need to have at least 10 degrees of lead time in order to receive the signal and then command the spark? before the rotor is past its point? I say this because it sounds like the spark will still deliver however the rotor will be past the point and cause spark scatter / EMI
none of this is in the booklet you get with the efi, and it conflicts with the information in the booklet. Just letting you guys know
The info in the quick start booklet is to hook this up with out timing control. This video is for timing control.
@@Richard14389 The booklet also has timing control instructions and this video does contradict those instructions.
@@inmygarage_kenm Well one thing is for 100% certain is when you set your ignition type in Ignition Parameters it tells you the reference angle to initially set your pickup to by default...
Dual spark distributors get set to a 50* reference angle and HEI also TFI gets set to 10* but no matter the situation the software kinda gives you the hint when you pick the right type of ignition youre utilizing....
Grab your laptop bring the program up and look at the different ignition choices and notice the different reference angles and then youll see this guys info is 100% spot on!!.......
Anyone know the part number for that distributor?
Please let me know HillBilly, if you find out.
Why does holleys instructions contradict this ones?
Holleys instructions contradict your instructions.
Engine only backfires and doesn't turn on. Either holleys instructions is shit or I'm doing somthing wrong which I'm forsure not.
robot, activate
all easy from a en gine in a shop on a STAND ?
Another tip is DONT USE A MSD DISTRIBUTOR!!!..Your system will run on a paired or bank to bank strategy which is worse than a carb as it forcefeeds fuel into your engine instead of asking for fuel via vacuum not knowing where your #1 cylinder is at-at all and cannot time the events like a GM TBI system does.....
With the progressive linkage youll be having 2 injectors fire without even having the flaps open and thats not good for fuel economy... The DSD and Hyperspark systems are only for engines with Roller cams...They only come with a STEEL gear so if you have a flat tappet camshaft and a hyperspark or dsd system most likely your camshaft gear is being destroyed too.......Beware in the lies and KEEP THE CARB!!!!
When you see what Holley comes out with next very very soon that was very very funded with the hard earned cash you spent on these novelties that will also make you wanna kick yourself in the ass very very swiftly because you spent thousands getting your ride rolling and realized you wasted money on the the experimental Commodore 64 of ECU systems instead of a Playstation or an X-Box when they soon reveal the Playstation5 of ECU systems funded by the money you waste on this junk....Beware of the lies!!!!!!
Smoked Tirez: I just watched your video about Holley EFI systems. What's your beef with Holley? Aren't FAST and others all in the same situation? Why do you have comments turned off on your video? Holley makes it quite clear what their products can be legally used on. Works great on my two 1966 Mustangs... JUST CURIOUS!