1 more spawn wave per boss, huge difference! And 30 trash mobs before you start the gauntlet. Also curious how CoT1 can rank so high when every aspect is at times worse than things he criticized so far.
@@sagacity1071 More or less yes. The concept of it is the same. Some amount of waves until a boss spawns, and they can't be allowed to reach a certain area.
"Okay now we're at the dungeons that are sort of okay, I'm starting to enjoy myself a bit. This dungeon was absolute TRASH. This next one way okay. Now THIS one was just a disappointment."
@@JS310 WC is fun on classic I think, but the navigation is certainly unfriendly.. Verdan the Everliving is a boss that sticks out to me from classic WC, just because he hits like a monster at such a low lvl
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u Don't get me wrong I had some fun but I'm just jaded because I hate how the gems from the bosses don't stack in your bags and I also forgot the one from the last boss so had to do it all over again lool. Yeah when I first saw Verdan back in the day I basically freaked out found it so cool
Capital city named after the gnomes, you'd think it would be self explanatory. I'm dyslexic and I figured it out. Azjol-Nerub is another one that gets butchered.
Remember that he is talking about the time itself mostly. So TBC Timewalking should not be taken into account. There is so much waiting compared to how it used to be.
@@TheAssirra Agreed. I remember back in the day it used to be much more of an active dungeon, with the very little downtime feeling more like a much needed break than a bore-fest.
BM and VH had the same basic premise but they played nothing alike. The adds in BM were an actual challenge and you had to have a mage or something taking care of them. VH on the other hand was mindless
My most hated one is the Panda dungeon where you have to throw some yellow crap at waves of mantids and then defeat them. To newer players it might not seem that bad thanks to the gong they added later on, but originally there was HUGE downtime in-between the waves. Its been like 8 years since MoP launched and the memory of this hell-hole is still seared into my brain.
3 generic-as-fuck examples of what you can expect from John Rando and the Boyz. "Follow me"... dead. "OK, one more try. Follow me"... 1 person gets left behind and ass-pulls, getting 2 more people in combat. The dude who originally wanted to skip is now waiting with the healer after skipping the trash. The remaining people fuck up the skip AGAIN after a 2 minute run back, and obviously frustrated and under pressure, they leave the group without saying a word. "It's OK, we'll find some more... they sucked anyways" says Sid the Skipper, and just as he hits enter... the group has disbanded. Hunter in the group hasn't said much, except for +1 because he doesn't want to move to the entrance. OK, group seems chill enough, no drama. Seem to be doing good DPS, tanks good, healers good, this is going goo... *Hunter jumping around and spinning the mouse* /say "???" ... erm, OK, ignore that. Next pack. "OMG NOOBS, WYH U NOT SKIPING TIHS PACK?!?!" One person responds with "sorry" to try and just move the conversation on. Hunter has already left the group and is calling people noobs as he teleports out. "Hey guys. Are we doing the skip?" "What skip?" "Well, if you don't know THE skip, I'm not wasting any more of my time, good day."
Back in the day you couldn't get a random dungeon if you hadn't discovered the entrance, so a lot of us made sure we didn't get near Stonecore. They did it to not let pugs deal with people that didn't know they way to the entrance after a wipe. But as soon as Bliz' got wise to this tactic, they changed it :D
The amount of people that kept dying on Fozruk (third boos) back then and still do today during timewalking was and is too damn high it makes me feel miserable. Running out of a big circle is just too hard and not attacking when a spell reflect buff is on the boss as well.
Break youself upon my body, feel the strength of the earth! I loved cata dungeons especially heroics before they got nerfed. My guild had a blast in them.
Stratholme is definitely higher on my list but that's because that's where I became a good tank. Where I understood how to pull fast and efficiently and use LOS. It's got a soft spot for me.
Sethec Halls will always hold a place in my heart because it was the first time I ever tanked. I got into group and said "I've never tanked, and can't even remember the last time I even switched to bear form, so please go easy on me!" Ran super smooth, fell in love with tanking. One of my favorite things to do at the end of Wrath was queue for heroics, then tell everyone not to cast anything until I stopped moving, then proceed to pull everything I could possibly pull in the dungeon. It was so much fun! Likewise, Utgarde Keep was my first time healing (like, I had just spent the gold to respec and re-do my elemental build at level 65 and a friend says "hey, you wanna run Utgarde Keep?" and of course, I responded that I wouldn't even be able to hit anything, so he says 'well, how about you heal then?". It was a disaster. We went through 5 or 6 tanks, having to go back to Dalaran to pug a new one every time. We finally got her done with a tank who was patient enough to put up with my under-leveled, never-healed-before ass. And I fell in love with healing, Running resto shaman as a primary alt to my Bear tank through cataclysm, then switching to main resto shaman all the way up to about halfway through Nighthold.)
I wish they would impliment a system where you can just queue into a pool of literally any dungeon ever made while leveling. Being restricted to the dungeons within your "chromie time" is beat
@@notsuspiciousthejudgmental2423 Yeah, but that's after 15 or 20 minutes.. That really only happens if you queue for Cata-only dungeons at late night :(
I love looking at Mike's new hairy head, but I wish it was relegated to the corner during the dungeon flyovers so that we can get a better view of what's going on
Sorry, but the worst dungeon ever made was Tol Dagor. Playing through that dungeon as an Unholy DK was the worst experience ever, constantly pulling enemies through the floor, walls, and ceiling. I would only ever do that dungeon if I could be in discord with my tank, because I had to tell him every spot that I could pull enemies through the glass building and tell him where to tank everything.
Oculus is one of those dungeons thats fucking amazing if people know what to do. I like it alot. Blowing up the last boss in 30 seconds was the shit. Stocks is just a slugfest. The low celling is what makes it bad. Its essentialy a worse version of the Scarlet halls dungeons. Which isnt a bad metric considering how good those are. Black Morass and Durnhold Keep are easily among the worst in the game. Simply because they belong the dungeons that have you standing around more than actualy playing. The same goes for Violet Hold, Siege of Niuzao Temple, Jade Serpent Tmeple, Halls of Stone. The second boss in Niuzao is the worst piece of gameplay ever added to WoW.
The WoD Auchindoun is one of my personal favourite instances. The way it starts with all this banging grand, beautiful Draenei architecture and everything is normal, only for Nyami to betray everyone, the Legion comes kicking in to fuck shit up, is just great. The bosses were pretty fun, too, especially the first one, and aesthetically I don't think Blizzard has done better.
Arcway was such a fun dungeon as a warlock. Being able to enslave one of the mobs and get a 66% uptime on 20% (or 30%) haste and damage was super satisfying.
I love how Preach tells me every 7 Dungeons: We are getting better now, now they become more fun! And then, after one more dungeon the rant starts again haha xD
"we're getting into dungeons I don't actually mind now, they just don't have anything special." "this dungeon was just horrible!" Not perfect quotes, but yeah I dno where he's *truly* at in his list ever.
My problem is that I didn't get to run ZG and ZA in their original form. As such... the remade ZA/ZG dungeons were by far and away my favorite dungeons. The level of challenge they presented as a newer player completely motivated me to improve. I loved wiping and trying again and again. Felt great. Really looking forward to doing ZA in TBC classic. In the end though, I think it's going to be a relative thing.
I remember back in the day after spending 3-4 hours in MC my guild would get another raid group going to run ZG, lol. I'd spend like 5-6 hrs a day several times a week raiding. Jesus, who was I back then?
Finally. I thought I was alone in liking the cata heroics and the troll dungeons specifically. It was such a great challenge that felt good and skillful to overcome and made me take learning mechanics seriously.
me and my friends absolutely loved doing Court of Stars and Arcway in Legion. Everytime we got one we always went for it despite not always needing loot. It was just that fun for us
I do have a fun memory of violet hold, when I played demonology in legion and there was a boss whos main mechanic was a really really nasty debuff or dot, but then I realized that he only casted the debuff on a single target AND demonology pets including the „only a few seconds alive“-Imps could be targeted. With 12-16 Imps, 2 Doggos and your main demon the debuff pretty much never targeted a player.
Wtf dude! From a tanks perspective NL is probably the best dungeon of Legion. There was so much you could do to make the run smoother. Take the last boss f.i. the add always spawned to the right of the boss, so you would position the boss next to a pillar and have the add instantly take the bonus damage without any kiting from the dps. Then if you had a shit tank who didn't use AM correctly the boss would send the tank flying all across the room. It was fantastic. On the boss with the totems you could stack them all under the boss for maximum cleave by turning the boss etc. etc. The first boss was kinda boring since you only had to face it away and sidestep occasionally but even that was something not every tank could do for some reason. Sorry man, but with this one you are just wrong.
Hey preach I enjoyed the video a lot. I had one request as someone who loves the nostalgia of the old dungeons and hasn't even seen some of the newer ones I was wondering if you would consider moving your camera down to the bottom right or something for the next part instead of directly in front of what the person who recorded the background video is pointing his camera at. Again, loved the video and looking forward to the next one!
I don't think you did shrine of the storm justice. It's REALLY easy just putting half the bfa and SL dungeons in F tier if you take m+ into consideration, but I don't think it'd be fair. Maybe I'm biased because I absolutely loved running that dungeon as a tank/healer( even more so with prot/holy pala), but I really think it's a nice dungeon. Cool setting, unique adds, 3rd and 4th boss' mechanics are quite unique, punishing but fair.
Only one that really surprised me by its position is Zul'Gurub. Between archaeology bosses, unique mechanics for dungeon bosses, and an interesting final boss I would say it was great. Fair that it is considered a watered down raid and that makes it lower, but independently I would say it's good.
tol dagor ? pulling stuff through floors and walls with all random abilities that they never fixed, super narrow hallways insanely bad for camera control and sanguine affix, gimmicky shits with the cannons at the end and last 2 bosses was super fucking bad on high keys more than any boss. also black morass was just violet hold with finding the add portal and same 3 bosses instead of waiting for adds and random bosses
The only good thing to say about Violet Hold is that you couldn't get lost (which for a newbie tank isn't a small thing, as everyone always assumes the tank knows the optimal path through the dungeon - looking at you, Mauradon).
My friend passed out laughing on discord in the assault on violet hold because I died in a really daft way, holds a place in my heart for that reason and that reason alone !
From the way you describe the dungeons one could think you are reading the list out of order. Darkheart Thicket: "I don't have anything in particular against it. It was just very bleh" Higher on the list: Wailing Caverns "This dungeon sucks. It's really shit"
I miss the Cata Dungeons. They were adequately challenging, but straight forward enough so that even a struggling player could properly get walked through their mechanics and perform well. Easily the best time I had in the game. Not everything was tied to some elaborate system. Had a main for progress raiding and meme runs with the bois, but other than that I'd just pop on some alts and do LFD, helping groups out as a Tank/Healer and giving out boss/trash/class specific tips to newer players. Seeing them get it and knowing that they'll just trivialize some of these mechanics from then on was immensely satisfying. Wish they had just added a "Hard Mode" for the 4.0 and 4.1 dungeons with an ilvl bump to make them relevant for 4.3 instead of the snoozefest End Times that we got. The only good memory I have of the End Time dungeons is queuing as a Prot Warrior with Heroic Dragon Soul DPS gear, pulling all the room before the Jaina boss fight and seeing the damage meter lose its shit.
End Time dungeons to be easy? That's actually one of those dungeons where wipes were MOST prolific and people got extremely frustrated, and I've done them tens of times in "their" time and in timewalking.
And this dungeon is actually getting WORSE with the M+ mechanics added. Being so claustrophobic, adding shit affixes like Storming or Spiteful just makes the experience so much worse. God.. Shadowlands is such a middle finger for melee.
It's clear that you were a raider in vanilla :D. My love for M+ comes directly from times like being in a dungeon guild in classic and doing hard Cata and BC launch heroics. This is a hard video to watch with you just shitting all over my memories :P
Early Cata heroics is how the game should be imo. Everything is too easy unless you grind up to like mythic 20 and stuff. By then I've done the same dungeons 400 times and am over it altogether
I kinda dig Maraudon 8-) I like that it is an actual dungeon, and at that - such a grandiose one too. To me a dungeon should feel like we are invading an enemy lair, and Maraudon does that for me more so than most other dungeons. Monsters aren't randomly placed to be an obstical, it looks like they belong there, with hydra's chilling by the waterfall, crocodiles in the water, zatyrs in their temple room making pacts with the devil or whatever they're up to, and killer plants branching out and decorating the walls with vines for the upcoming christmas party. Bosses are often just placed in the center of a room doing nothing, but Mauradon has a few exeptions - mostly thanks to the environment justifying why the bosses are there in the first place. And they are all having a good time in their dungeon, until you show up with a hammer of justice and retribution! And yeah - The Princess is just such a nice tidbit of irony, in such a beautiful location that it's hard not to love the ending, too :)
Violet hold had some decent bosses going for it, but the trash was horrible to do. If they had just made it a boss rush kind of deal, I think it would be amazing. But I figure they needed more than however many minutes 3 bosses would take... When Theater of Pain was first mentioned, I honestly thought it'd be something like that, a giant arena with "waves" of bosses, potentially on a rotation like the play in karazhan
It amazes me every time I go in to Blackfathom and skip the jumping section by walking over the rock at the end. People will watch you do that, then still go back and start failing the jumping section.
This is such an awful list. He clumped the 3 end time dungeons together - even though they were totally different? The Well of Eternity was a great dungeon. Culling of Stat/Strat below Black Morass??
One of my personal favourites has always been pre-nerf Sunken Temple. That place FELT like a dungeon. I understand why they nerfed it, I understand not many people were running it anymore, but all the optional bosses, the whole confusing layout, the multiple floors, it just felt awesome.
That place was an adventurers dream, if we're talking the "back when you had to get there on foot" days. So many optional quests and bosses, and some EPIC loot! The modern version, you get plonked in the main room, bish, bash, bosh, GG guys. Requeue next random dungeon.
Interesting no starting cata dungeons, don't know if its been said yet but I feel cata had the best dungeon lay out at the launch, when they removed a lot of the teeth it lost that but a solid return to CC and tactics combined with the new blizzard ethos of each boss has a unique mechanic, unless I'm remembering wrong
Gnomer, ah Gnomer. I agree that it has a ton of trash, and it is a bit of a disorganized mess. For a new player it's probably the first dungeon you run into that is so big and so unclear what the right path is, and it's one of your first introductions to jumping down levels to skip parts. For that I remember it fondly in that it was just so overwhelming how big and confusing it was and it was impressive that it was even possible to have a dungeon like that.
I watched this a while back and was suprised because I used to love maraudon back in the day, but wasn't sure if that was just inaccurate memory. But getting into it in classic again more recently, I still loved it. It's the first truely grand dungeon you get to do in the classic journey. It's beautiful from start to finish, and when it opens up and you stand in front of that long bridge towards the princess, with the pairs of giants guarding it. I find it a great experience for the same reasons that BRD is so cool.
I was thinking the same thing the entire video. Was it somehow more interesting in TBC for some reason? I could see it being a little higher than violet hold, as the dark portal is rather thematic, but it's essentially the same dungeon.
@@joshferris171 It was a notoriously hard one and the timing was very strict. So you never were actually waiting for things to spawn but pray you could kill the thing before the next thing spawns.
the arcatraz prison dungeon from TBC is the one that I find annoying the most just because of the start where things keep re spawning and people don't move past them fast enough so there is constant combat.
Court of Stars would be really high up on my list of favorite dungeons but I think your criticisms are fair. Thanks for the taking the time and going through your list of top dungeons. I am really enjoy listening to your point of view on these.
My first ever WoW dungeon was WC. There was a really hard jump towards the end of the dungeon, I didn't make it across and I got lost. I logged out, out of embarrassment and didn't play for a few days after that.
My computer was so awful in BFA that I would avoid Temple of Sethraliss solely because the maze was so awful with choppy fps, it wasn't until I upgraded that I could actually experience the dungeon but my first impression was already made. Kind of tragic, it's a beautiful dungeon. I love the under-ground "cities" Blizzard hints at in dungeons but never ends up doing anything with.
After all of the nerfs that made it more in line with all the other Legion dungeons for m+ values, it was actually a pretty alright dungeon and I enjoyed the the little shield minigame you had to play on the last boss. It was just all too late, by the time the balance tuning had finally gotten it to a good state, it had remained over tuned for too many months and everyone and their mothers had hard set their brains to refuse to run the dungeon. So when you actually got a few people in there to run just a casual weekly +15, no one knew what any of the mechanics did and wiped to the most simple of stuff, thus furthering the hive mind notion to avoid the place like a plague.
heh, so many memories of running black rock, usually ubrs. I played a hunter so I always had to kite Drakkisath back to Blackhands room. lol Man I miss the good ol' days of WoW.
I applaud you for making this but there is such great nostalgia for many towards BFD and Gnome because that was like a great fast leveling dungeon. You could charge through quickly.
For the court minigame, since it's still kinda relevant with TW. If you have a DH in your group, once you collect all the clues, you can just spectral sight it, and the demon will be highlighted.
How can you not like Gnomer??? kill a few trash, get to the ledge, jump down and start fighting the blob boss. 1 minute later the entire dungeon NPCs come running in to attack you because a Hunter/Mage/Warlock forgot to dismiss their pet before the jump. Started in vanilla.........and it's STILL happens.
When Halls of Reflection was still new, unless you had a Priest, it was pretty mandatory to stack in the corner on the trash packs. 2 or 3 people would just leave the moment you zoned in.
I really love the Court of Stars! The class and Profession Buffs were really cool and the Kind of brought this back wie Covenant buffs but i wish they would embrace such Things more :)
Fully agree, at this point it's probably the worst aspect of modern wow for me, I can't keep doing same shit for 2 years and refarming the same gear over and over
@@omarcomming722 All gear is effectively the same if it doesn't have a unique effect tied to it. Those boots you're wearing? Literally the only difference between those and boots from Vanilla dungeons are the name and stats. In fact the only difference between your boots and your gloves are the equipment slot.
@@VladiMatt but also models, provided they are new models and not recycled crap. If new seasons at least brought in new appearances for M+ gear that are cool transmogs, it would at least be something. As it is right now it's insanely lazy and repetitive content when done across multiple seasons, yet always mandatory due to how lacking raid gearing is without it
The platform jumping in BFD is not okay. Every single time I will fall off the platforms into the water and then I'll get lost and I'll lose the group and I hate it
Anub'arak: You had to slow dps to a halt ~52%, wait for him to start casting crush, pop lust and go nuts. That's how we did it go get the first Glory of the Hero pre nerf :)
Personally. Besides it being the go to m+ run in legion. I fucking loved Mae of souls. All the bosses had some really great mechanics. I remember the first boss hitting tanks so hard it was fun preparing yourself for that next overhead slam. Helya has so much spectacle and when you're at the top do the boat and seeing all the massive waves. Brilliant
My biggest problem with Siege of Boralus was always the faction difference on the first boss. Same group, same classes, similar power levels, and we could blow through the first boss with no trouble on Alliance, but the Horde version would inevitably bug out and be running people down at full speed from the moment he targeted them. But I'd still rather run Siege on Horde than Tol Dagor on...anything.
Running Gnomergan is awful. But going in on a max toon and clearing it then just exploring it is actually pretty cool. The city is a lot more fleshed out than I thought it was. With a bunch of "secret" areas.
Wait, wasn't CoeN one of the best keys to push after several 'readjustments'? Yeah the start was rough, but later it was quite enjoyable and had some interesting bosses
I'm extremely surprised that Tol Dagor isn't far down on your list, it is my least favorite dungeon of all time *by far* ! Maybe you didn't pug it a lot in M+, but boy did it suck: Tight timer, difficult bosses, horrible with lots of affixes (Sanguine and old Quaking say hello), 100% mandatory to have a rogue, random pulls through the floor/walls that would immediately end your run and an endboss that would randomly use its deadliest abilities twice as often as a bug, likely ending your run aswell. "Fun times" !
Sanguine basically made TD unplayable for the week, it wouldn't be that bad with current 20 second sanguine but god back then it lasted a full minute. And yeah it was bugged to hell and back.
I am really fond of the underrot, because of a run where a tank massively overpulled everything in area with the tentacle trash and me mc'ing one of the tentacles on my holy priest, which aoed down everything and made me top the damagemeter for the dungeon
@Randall Kildare Ah, just looked up Stockade and saw it got revamped in Cata. I guess that's the explanation, 'cause my only experience with it was from before that, so fair enough if it's had a needed overhaul I've missed out on.
The irony of saying "I will try to not be as verbose as I usually am" twice is striking.
how is black morass not in the bottom 5 of your dungeons? it's literally violet hold with a coat of paint of 'swamp'
1 more spawn wave per boss, huge difference! And 30 trash mobs before you start the gauntlet. Also curious how CoT1 can rank so high when every aspect is at times worse than things he criticized so far.
Isnt violet hold a copy of black morass?
If you didn't post this comment, I would have had to do it.
@@sagacity1071 More or less yes. The concept of it is the same. Some amount of waves until a boss spawns, and they can't be allowed to reach a certain area.
I hate that dungeon. It's...so...boring.
"Okay now we're at the dungeons that are sort of okay, I'm starting to enjoy myself a bit. This dungeon was absolute TRASH. This next one way okay. Now THIS one was just a disappointment."
Classic preach tbh
Wailing Caverns is the stockholme syndrome of dungeons. If you actually like it I pray for successful healing.
I remember loving WC so much when i first did it as a kid but doing it again in current classic opened my eyes to so many annoying things lol
I kinda do tbh, after hating it with a passion for a while
@@JS310 WC is fun on classic I think, but the navigation is certainly unfriendly.. Verdan the Everliving is a boss that sticks out to me from classic WC, just because he hits like a monster at such a low lvl
I think Wailing Caverns is fine up until the escort.
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u Don't get me wrong I had some fun but I'm just jaded because I hate how the gems from the bosses don't stack in your bags and I also forgot the one from the last boss so had to do it all over again lool. Yeah when I first saw Verdan back in the day I basically freaked out found it so cool
say tol dagor now
gnome-ra-gon, play a gnome for 5 minutes and it'll be burned into your brain lmao
IT'S GNOME ARE GONE!
Capital city named after the gnomes, you'd think it would be self explanatory. I'm dyslexic and I figured it out.
Azjol-Nerub is another one that gets butchered.
Mootmoo23 Correct. Its even pronounced in game by gnome characters; "For Gnomeregan!"
GNOME-ERR-AH-GONE
For GnOMEraGaN
The fact that the Black Morass is not in this video is baffling. I dread that dungeon every time TBC Timewalking comes around.
I feel like he made this video and forgot about some dungeons as he was filming, but I know he didn't which makes me sad.
God that's one of the few dungeons that i just delete from my memory,its horrendous,its like Violet hold
Remember that he is talking about the time itself mostly. So TBC Timewalking should not be taken into account. There is so much waiting compared to how it used to be.
@@TheAssirra Agreed. I remember back in the day it used to be much more of an active dungeon, with the very little downtime feeling more like a much needed break than a bore-fest.
BM and VH had the same basic premise but they played nothing alike.
The adds in BM were an actual challenge and you had to have a mage or something taking care of them. VH on the other hand was mindless
My most hated one is the Panda dungeon where you have to throw some yellow crap at waves of mantids and then defeat them. To newer players it might not seem that bad thanks to the gong they added later on, but originally there was HUGE downtime in-between the waves. Its been like 8 years since MoP launched and the memory of this hell-hole is still seared into my brain.
Ugh, yes. I remember running that when it was new and it was awful. It still is, but they must’ve made it a little faster.
"should be better than it is" could describe BFA in general
And shit-lands. And legion.
@@EdyGlockenspiel can't agree, I loved Legion and am loving shadowlands... Just too long before 9.1
@@dw22509 Last time I liked an xpack was WoD.
@@EdyGlockenspiel Yeah your opinion is objectively wrong
@@bluey1007 If you say so hun. Legion was still a shit xpack though. ^
Can you imagine if they made Violet Hold a mythic+ in legion
No I can't because I'm not that crazy
Was it not? I distinctly remember whining about the timer and the rp when I did that with my guild
@@Slimjim2147 there was no m+ violet hold in Legion
Ugh
@@Slimjim2147 You could do it as Mythic 0, but never as M+
Skips have ruined so many dungeons for me, kind of hard to believe how much difference it makes.
Oh I’m really disliking plaguefall while levelling alts, like the skips people demand it’s just not fun
3 generic-as-fuck examples of what you can expect from John Rando and the Boyz.
"Follow me"... dead. "OK, one more try. Follow me"... 1 person gets left behind and ass-pulls, getting 2 more people in combat. The dude who originally wanted to skip is now waiting with the healer after skipping the trash. The remaining people fuck up the skip AGAIN after a 2 minute run back, and obviously frustrated and under pressure, they leave the group without saying a word. "It's OK, we'll find some more... they sucked anyways" says Sid the Skipper, and just as he hits enter... the group has disbanded.
Hunter in the group hasn't said much, except for +1 because he doesn't want to move to the entrance. OK, group seems chill enough, no drama. Seem to be doing good DPS, tanks good, healers good, this is going goo... *Hunter jumping around and spinning the mouse* /say "???" ... erm, OK, ignore that. Next pack. "OMG NOOBS, WYH U NOT SKIPING TIHS PACK?!?!" One person responds with "sorry" to try and just move the conversation on. Hunter has already left the group and is calling people noobs as he teleports out.
"Hey guys. Are we doing the skip?"
"What skip?"
"Well, if you don't know THE skip, I'm not wasting any more of my time, good day."
Back in the day you couldn't get a random dungeon if you hadn't discovered the entrance, so a lot of us made sure we didn't get near Stonecore. They did it to not let pugs deal with people that didn't know they way to the entrance after a wipe. But as soon as Bliz' got wise to this tactic, they changed it :D
The amount of people that kept dying on Fozruk (third boos) back then and still do today during timewalking was and is too damn high it makes me feel miserable. Running out of a big circle is just too hard and not attacking when a spell reflect buff is on the boss as well.
Hmm that’s interesting i only started playing in cata got to 40 then uni took over
Break youself upon my body, feel the strength of the earth!
I loved cata dungeons especially heroics before they got nerfed. My guild had a blast in them.
@@Retributzen BREAK YOURSELVES UPON MY BODY!
That might explain why i got Stonecore so few times. Its one of the best dungeons in the game. I always rejoiced upon getting it.
The fact Oculus is not on this part of the list right at the start...
Man....I can't believe there aren't more people saying this. That dungeon was horrible...instant leave when you zoned into that hellhole
Stratholme is definitely higher on my list but that's because that's where I became a good tank. Where I understood how to pull fast and efficiently and use LOS. It's got a soft spot for me.
Respect that. Happy you had a good experience with it 🙏
"Violet Hold, the dungeon so bad they did it twice!"
"Tol Dagor isn't on the map, it doesn't exist."
Sethec Halls will always hold a place in my heart because it was the first time I ever tanked. I got into group and said "I've never tanked, and can't even remember the last time I even switched to bear form, so please go easy on me!" Ran super smooth, fell in love with tanking. One of my favorite things to do at the end of Wrath was queue for heroics, then tell everyone not to cast anything until I stopped moving, then proceed to pull everything I could possibly pull in the dungeon. It was so much fun!
Likewise, Utgarde Keep was my first time healing (like, I had just spent the gold to respec and re-do my elemental build at level 65 and a friend says "hey, you wanna run Utgarde Keep?" and of course, I responded that I wouldn't even be able to hit anything, so he says 'well, how about you heal then?". It was a disaster. We went through 5 or 6 tanks, having to go back to Dalaran to pug a new one every time. We finally got her done with a tank who was patient enough to put up with my under-leveled, never-healed-before ass. And I fell in love with healing, Running resto shaman as a primary alt to my Bear tank through cataclysm, then switching to main resto shaman all the way up to about halfway through Nighthold.)
Did you manage to find something fun in The Occulus or did you just forget it exists?
I wish they would impliment a system where you can just queue into a pool of literally any dungeon ever made while leveling. Being restricted to the dungeons within your "chromie time" is beat
And whenever you do get in a dungeon it’s taken so long that it queues you into another timeline anyways
@@notsuspiciousthejudgmental2423 Yeah, but that's after 15 or 20 minutes..
That really only happens if you queue for Cata-only dungeons at late night :(
@@LukasLLM Yeah, that was kind of the point. Because it always happens anyways, it should just be baseline
Agree 1000%. So many dungeons in this game and you don't even have the choice to play what you want, what a stupid concept
I love looking at Mike's new hairy head, but I wish it was relegated to the corner during the dungeon flyovers so that we can get a better view of what's going on
Same! He should be like 1/6th of the screen, not over half.
I just imagine he's flying backwards through them.
But yes, I agree.
Sorry, but the worst dungeon ever made was Tol Dagor. Playing through that dungeon as an Unholy DK was the worst experience ever, constantly pulling enemies through the floor, walls, and ceiling. I would only ever do that dungeon if I could be in discord with my tank, because I had to tell him every spot that I could pull enemies through the glass building and tell him where to tank everything.
completely agree, i dont see 1 thing that was fun about it
its completely horrible
How are Black Morass, Durnhold Keep, and Stockades not amongst the worst dungeons?
Did Preach mindwiped himself to forget about thoses?
And the Oculus??
I actually liked Stockades, but it might just be nostalgia.
@@ChinnuWoW I cannot up vote your comment enough; oculus blows
Oculus is one of those dungeons thats fucking amazing if people know what to do.
I like it alot. Blowing up the last boss in 30 seconds was the shit.
Stocks is just a slugfest. The low celling is what makes it bad. Its essentialy a worse version of the Scarlet halls dungeons.
Which isnt a bad metric considering how good those are.
Black Morass and Durnhold Keep are easily among the worst in the game. Simply because they belong the dungeons that have you standing around more than actualy playing.
The same goes for Violet Hold, Siege of Niuzao Temple, Jade Serpent Tmeple, Halls of Stone.
The second boss in Niuzao is the worst piece of gameplay ever added to WoW.
That TotalBiscuit clip. My gaming childhood summed up in one video.
You missed out one thing when discussing the Everbloom- The third boss Archmage Sol has the most striking voice acting performance in the whole game.
That's a funny way of spelling Sindragosa. She's not in The Everbloom either. Can only assume that your pathetic memory betrayed you.
@@CaptainKenway betrraaaaaaaaaays you.
I am not some simple jester! I am Nielas Aran!
The WoD Auchindoun is one of my personal favourite instances. The way it starts with all this banging grand, beautiful Draenei architecture and everything is normal, only for Nyami to betray everyone, the Legion comes kicking in to fuck shit up, is just great. The bosses were pretty fun, too, especially the first one, and aesthetically I don't think Blizzard has done better.
Strat vanilla was saved by the Baron45, the original M+.
Gods.. I totally forgot about the 45 minute run...
Arcway was such a fun dungeon as a warlock. Being able to enslave one of the mobs and get a 66% uptime on 20% (or 30%) haste and damage was super satisfying.
I love how Preach tells me every 7 Dungeons:
We are getting better now, now they become more fun!
And then, after one more dungeon the rant starts again haha xD
"we're getting into dungeons I don't actually mind now, they just don't have anything special."
"this dungeon was just horrible!"
Not perfect quotes, but yeah I dno where he's *truly* at in his list ever.
You can tell what class was top during each of the old gameplay moments. Preach has been and will always be a flavor of the month follower.
That's different from 3/4 of the players how?
“Babies first Deathwing” freaking hilarious!!
cool fact, one of 'the nine', one of the bosses in the maw raid, is the valkyr you see at the end of utgaurd keep who revives ingvar.
My problem is that I didn't get to run ZG and ZA in their original form. As such... the remade ZA/ZG dungeons were by far and away my favorite dungeons. The level of challenge they presented as a newer player completely motivated me to improve. I loved wiping and trying again and again. Felt great. Really looking forward to doing ZA in TBC classic. In the end though, I think it's going to be a relative thing.
I remember back in the day after spending 3-4 hours in MC my guild would get another raid group going to run ZG, lol. I'd spend like 5-6 hrs a day several times a week raiding. Jesus, who was I back then?
Finally. I thought I was alone in liking the cata heroics and the troll dungeons specifically. It was such a great challenge that felt good and skillful to overcome and made me take learning mechanics seriously.
Black morass did it last timewalking and i had wiped that dungeon from my memory it has to be the worst
me and my friends absolutely loved doing Court of Stars and Arcway in Legion. Everytime we got one we always went for it despite not always needing loot. It was just that fun for us
Surprised not to see you mention Occulus. So many people hated that and would refuse to run it.
Crazy to see how healthy preach has become since this vidoe was made, very cool and very proud of u man :)
I do have a fun memory of violet hold, when I played demonology in legion and there was a boss whos main mechanic was a really really nasty debuff or dot, but then I realized that he only casted the debuff on a single target AND demonology pets including the „only a few seconds alive“-Imps could be targeted. With 12-16 Imps, 2 Doggos and your main demon the debuff pretty much never targeted a player.
Wtf dude! From a tanks perspective NL is probably the best dungeon of Legion.
There was so much you could do to make the run smoother.
Take the last boss f.i. the add always spawned to the right of the boss, so you would position the boss next to a pillar and have the add instantly take the bonus damage without any kiting from the dps.
Then if you had a shit tank who didn't use AM correctly the boss would send the tank flying all across the room. It was fantastic.
On the boss with the totems you could stack them all under the boss for maximum cleave by turning the boss etc. etc. The first boss was kinda boring since you only had to face it away and sidestep occasionally but even that was something not every tank could do for some reason.
Sorry man, but with this one you are just wrong.
Hey preach I enjoyed the video a lot. I had one request as someone who loves the nostalgia of the old dungeons and hasn't even seen some of the newer ones I was wondering if you would consider moving your camera down to the bottom right or something for the next part instead of directly in front of what the person who recorded the background video is pointing his camera at. Again, loved the video and looking forward to the next one!
Pre-nerf CoEN was absolute dogshit, but post-nerf it was actually really good. Seat was always shit and certainly worse than CoEN.
I don't think you did shrine of the storm justice. It's REALLY easy just putting half the bfa and SL dungeons in F tier if you take m+ into consideration, but I don't think it'd be fair. Maybe I'm biased because I absolutely loved running that dungeon as a tank/healer( even more so with prot/holy pala), but I really think it's a nice dungeon. Cool setting, unique adds, 3rd and 4th boss' mechanics are quite unique, punishing but fair.
Only one that really surprised me by its position is Zul'Gurub. Between archaeology bosses, unique mechanics for dungeon bosses, and an interesting final boss I would say it was great. Fair that it is considered a watered down raid and that makes it lower, but independently I would say it's good.
tol dagor ?
pulling stuff through floors and walls with all random abilities that they never fixed, super narrow hallways insanely bad for camera control and sanguine affix, gimmicky shits with the cannons at the end and last 2 bosses was super fucking bad on high keys more than any boss.
also black morass was just violet hold with finding the add portal and same 3 bosses instead of waiting for adds and random bosses
I always liked Violet Hold. We had many good convos with my team/friends in between mobs. I looked forward to that being the daily Heroic
The only good thing to say about Violet Hold is that you couldn't get lost (which for a newbie tank isn't a small thing, as everyone always assumes the tank knows the optimal path through the dungeon - looking at you, Mauradon).
My friend passed out laughing on discord in the assault on violet hold because I died in a really daft way, holds a place in my heart for that reason and that reason alone !
My #1 question, why wasn't the oculus at the bottom of the list...?
From the way you describe the dungeons one could think you are reading the list out of order. Darkheart Thicket: "I don't have anything in particular against it. It was just very bleh" Higher on the list: Wailing Caverns "This dungeon sucks. It's really shit"
I can't believe Preach remembered what a Bogstrok is lol. No kidding you spent a lot of time in Slave Pens.
I miss the Cata Dungeons. They were adequately challenging, but straight forward enough so that even a struggling player could properly get walked through their mechanics and perform well. Easily the best time I had in the game. Not everything was tied to some elaborate system. Had a main for progress raiding and meme runs with the bois, but other than that I'd just pop on some alts and do LFD, helping groups out as a Tank/Healer and giving out boss/trash/class specific tips to newer players. Seeing them get it and knowing that they'll just trivialize some of these mechanics from then on was immensely satisfying.
Wish they had just added a "Hard Mode" for the 4.0 and 4.1 dungeons with an ilvl bump to make them relevant for 4.3 instead of the snoozefest End Times that we got.
The only good memory I have of the End Time dungeons is queuing as a Prot Warrior with Heroic Dragon Soul DPS gear, pulling all the room before the Jaina boss fight and seeing the damage meter lose its shit.
End Time dungeons to be easy? That's actually one of those dungeons where wipes were MOST prolific and people got extremely frustrated, and I've done them tens of times in "their" time and in timewalking.
When he said fuck sanguine depths i felt that
And this dungeon is actually getting WORSE with the M+ mechanics added. Being so claustrophobic, adding shit affixes like Storming or Spiteful just makes the experience so much worse. God.. Shadowlands is such a middle finger for melee.
We all did
why ? its amazing dungeon quickly checking if you play with muppets or with good players. very nice thematicaly too .
It's clear that you were a raider in vanilla :D. My love for M+ comes directly from times like being in a dungeon guild in classic and doing hard Cata and BC launch heroics. This is a hard video to watch with you just shitting all over my memories :P
Early Cata heroics is how the game should be imo. Everything is too easy unless you grind up to like mythic 20 and stuff. By then I've done the same dungeons 400 times and am over it altogether
my most fond memory of gundrak was when i cast waterwalking on my brothers priest and killed him on the fall down at the start of the dungeon.
I kinda dig Maraudon 8-) I like that it is an actual dungeon, and at that - such a grandiose one too. To me a dungeon should feel like we are invading an enemy lair, and Maraudon does that for me more so than most other dungeons. Monsters aren't randomly placed to be an obstical, it looks like they belong there, with hydra's chilling by the waterfall, crocodiles in the water, zatyrs in their temple room making pacts with the devil or whatever they're up to, and killer plants branching out and decorating the walls with vines for the upcoming christmas party. Bosses are often just placed in the center of a room doing nothing, but Mauradon has a few exeptions - mostly thanks to the environment justifying why the bosses are there in the first place. And they are all having a good time in their dungeon, until you show up with a hammer of justice and retribution!
And yeah - The Princess is just such a nice tidbit of irony, in such a beautiful location that it's hard not to love the ending, too :)
Violet hold had some decent bosses going for it, but the trash was horrible to do. If they had just made it a boss rush kind of deal, I think it would be amazing. But I figure they needed more than however many minutes 3 bosses would take... When Theater of Pain was first mentioned, I honestly thought it'd be something like that, a giant arena with "waves" of bosses, potentially on a rotation like the play in karazhan
It amazes me every time I go in to Blackfathom and skip the jumping section by walking over the rock at the end. People will watch you do that, then still go back and start failing the jumping section.
This is such an awful list. He clumped the 3 end time dungeons together - even though they were totally different? The Well of Eternity was a great dungeon. Culling of Stat/Strat below Black Morass??
One of my personal favourites has always been pre-nerf Sunken Temple. That place FELT like a dungeon. I understand why they nerfed it, I understand not many people were running it anymore, but all the optional bosses, the whole confusing layout, the multiple floors, it just felt awesome.
That place was an adventurers dream, if we're talking the "back when you had to get there on foot" days. So many optional quests and bosses, and some EPIC loot!
The modern version, you get plonked in the main room, bish, bash, bosh, GG guys. Requeue next random dungeon.
Love this video! Gives me old school preach vibes
Interesting no starting cata dungeons, don't know if its been said yet but I feel cata had the best dungeon lay out at the launch, when they removed a lot of the teeth it lost that but a solid return to CC and tactics combined with the new blizzard ethos of each boss has a unique mechanic, unless I'm remembering wrong
Gnomer, ah Gnomer. I agree that it has a ton of trash, and it is a bit of a disorganized mess. For a new player it's probably the first dungeon you run into that is so big and so unclear what the right path is, and it's one of your first introductions to jumping down levels to skip parts. For that I remember it fondly in that it was just so overwhelming how big and confusing it was and it was impressive that it was even possible to have a dungeon like that.
Finally someone I can take seriously about one of these lists.
Tol Dagor should be somewhere on this part of the list for being broken the whole expansion.
I watched this a while back and was suprised because I used to love maraudon back in the day, but wasn't sure if that was just inaccurate memory. But getting into it in classic again more recently, I still loved it. It's the first truely grand dungeon you get to do in the classic journey. It's beautiful from start to finish, and when it opens up and you stand in front of that long bridge towards the princess, with the pairs of giants guarding it. I find it a great experience for the same reasons that BRD is so cool.
Gonna need some CC on 15:27. All I can hear is "Hentai mounting is very cool."
I thought the same thing 🤣
He says "Hentai Mountain" because the tentacles. First time I hear they called it this and I think it's genius lol.
Preach you must have forgot about Black Morass right? That had to of been the worst dungeon right?
I was thinking the same thing the entire video. Was it somehow more interesting in TBC for some reason? I could see it being a little higher than violet hold, as the dark portal is rather thematic, but it's essentially the same dungeon.
@@joshferris171 It was a notoriously hard one and the timing was very strict. So you never were actually waiting for things to spawn but pray you could kill the thing before the next thing spawns.
What happened to Finn? You guys done?
How is the culling of stratholme lower on the list than Escape from Durnholde?
the arcatraz prison dungeon from TBC is the one that I find annoying the most just because of the start where things keep re spawning and people don't move past them fast enough so there is constant combat.
Court of Stars would be really high up on my list of favorite dungeons but I think your criticisms are fair. Thanks for the taking the time and going through your list of top dungeons. I am really enjoy listening to your point of view on these.
What dungeon doesn't get crushed later on in the xpac that doesn't have M+?
My first ever WoW dungeon was WC. There was a really hard jump towards the end of the dungeon, I didn't make it across and I got lost. I logged out, out of embarrassment and didn't play for a few days after that.
Was assault on Violet hold the only dungeon not used in m+ in legion?
My computer was so awful in BFA that I would avoid Temple of Sethraliss solely because the maze was so awful with choppy fps, it wasn't until I upgraded that I could actually experience the dungeon but my first impression was already made. Kind of tragic, it's a beautiful dungeon. I love the under-ground "cities" Blizzard hints at in dungeons but never ends up doing anything with.
The feeling when you actually kinda liked Cathedral of Eternal Night nd see it second to last D:
After all of the nerfs that made it more in line with all the other Legion dungeons for m+ values, it was actually a pretty alright dungeon and I enjoyed the the little shield minigame you had to play on the last boss.
It was just all too late, by the time the balance tuning had finally gotten it to a good state, it had remained over tuned for too many months and everyone and their mothers had hard set their brains to refuse to run the dungeon. So when you actually got a few people in there to run just a casual weekly +15, no one knew what any of the mechanics did and wiped to the most simple of stuff, thus furthering the hive mind notion to avoid the place like a plague.
i am 100% sure blackrock depths will be number 1 for mike. scholomance is my favorite
heh, so many memories of running black rock, usually ubrs. I played a hunter so I always had to kite Drakkisath back to Blackhands room. lol Man I miss the good ol' days of WoW.
I give it to remake of Kara in Legion.
I applaud you for making this but there is such great nostalgia for many towards BFD and Gnome because that was like a great fast leveling dungeon. You could charge through quickly.
For the court minigame, since it's still kinda relevant with TW.
If you have a DH in your group, once you collect all the clues, you can just spectral sight it, and the demon will be highlighted.
the arthas chase not being directly after violet hold is a disservice
How can you not like Gnomer???
kill a few trash, get to the ledge, jump down and start fighting the blob boss.
1 minute later the entire dungeon NPCs come running in to attack you because a Hunter/Mage/Warlock forgot to dismiss their pet before the jump.
Started in vanilla.........and it's STILL happens.
When Halls of Reflection was still new, unless you had a Priest, it was pretty mandatory to stack in the corner on the trash packs. 2 or 3 people would just leave the moment you zoned in.
How is Black Morass not right above Violet Hold? It's the same thing
I really love the Court of Stars! The class and Profession Buffs were really cool and the Kind of brought this back wie Covenant buffs but i wish they would embrace such Things more :)
Cata had 2 dungeon difficulties instead of 18(for gear). The Last time the game was simple but not easy, with a decent degree of difficulty.
Fully agree, at this point it's probably the worst aspect of modern wow for me, I can't keep doing same shit for 2 years and refarming the same gear over and over
@@omarcomming722 I wish we could test ourselves against every dungeon in the backlog, timewalking style, and gear up that way.
@@omarcomming722 All gear is effectively the same if it doesn't have a unique effect tied to it. Those boots you're wearing? Literally the only difference between those and boots from Vanilla dungeons are the name and stats. In fact the only difference between your boots and your gloves are the equipment slot.
@@omarcomming722 I stopped after I cleared Ghun. I hope everyone that makes content that I like for WoW gets to safety before the dreadwake sinks.
@@VladiMatt but also models, provided they are new models and not recycled crap. If new seasons at least brought in new appearances for M+ gear that are cool transmogs, it would at least be something. As it is right now it's insanely lazy and repetitive content when done across multiple seasons, yet always mandatory due to how lacking raid gearing is without it
The platform jumping in BFD is not okay. Every single time I will fall off the platforms into the water and then I'll get lost and I'll lose the group and I hate it
Anub'arak: You had to slow dps to a halt ~52%, wait for him to start casting crush, pop lust and go nuts. That's how we did it go get the first Glory of the Hero pre nerf :)
Personally. Besides it being the go to m+ run in legion. I fucking loved Mae of souls. All the bosses had some really great mechanics. I remember the first boss hitting tanks so hard it was fun preparing yourself for that next overhead slam. Helya has so much spectacle and when you're at the top do the boat and seeing all the massive waves. Brilliant
Will the Cata/MoP remakes (re)-appear on the list on seperate spots as their original version or will they be tied together?
My biggest problem with Siege of Boralus was always the faction difference on the first boss. Same group, same classes, similar power levels, and we could blow through the first boss with no trouble on Alliance, but the Horde version would inevitably bug out and be running people down at full speed from the moment he targeted them.
But I'd still rather run Siege on Horde than Tol Dagor on...anything.
How you do multiple Slavepens hc runs in a day?
Calling it now, Mike's favorite will be Karazhan.
Unless he’s a masochist and says the botanica
Running Gnomergan is awful. But going in on a max toon and clearing it then just exploring it is actually pretty cool.
The city is a lot more fleshed out than I thought it was. With a bunch of "secret" areas.
Wait, wasn't CoeN one of the best keys to push after several 'readjustments'? Yeah the start was rough, but later it was quite enjoyable and had some interesting bosses
Yeah but public reputation is a bitch
Did I miss where he put the Stockades? Surely Stockades does not make it to the 2nd part of the list
next we need a list of worst to best raid bosses, then dungeon bosses, then world rares, then every quest in the game!
I'm extremely surprised that Tol Dagor isn't far down on your list, it is my least favorite dungeon of all time *by far* ! Maybe you didn't pug it a lot in M+, but boy did it suck: Tight timer, difficult bosses, horrible with lots of affixes (Sanguine and old Quaking say hello), 100% mandatory to have a rogue, random pulls through the floor/walls that would immediately end your run and an endboss that would randomly use its deadliest abilities twice as often as a bug, likely ending your run aswell. "Fun times" !
Sanguine basically made TD unplayable for the week, it wouldn't be that bad with current 20 second sanguine but god back then it lasted a full minute. And yeah it was bugged to hell and back.
I am really fond of the underrot, because of a run where a tank massively overpulled everything in area with the tentacle trash and me mc'ing one of the tentacles on my holy priest, which aoed down everything and made me top the damagemeter for the dungeon
RFC below Stockade!? :O
@Randall Kildare Ah, just looked up Stockade and saw it got revamped in Cata. I guess that's the explanation, 'cause my only experience with it was from before that, so fair enough if it's had a needed overhaul I've missed out on.
can someone explain to me how oculus isn't on this?
From worst to best: Every MoP dungeon, Every Shadowlands dungeon, Cataclysm - CoT dungeons, Gnomeregan, ...others..., Grim Batol, Utgarde Keep & Pinnacle, BRD, #3 Shadow Fang Keep, #2 Operation Mechagon, #1 Return to Karazhan