@@reeferman42078 agree 100% - thanks for making the point I was trying to (I obviously left out the key part which was "that's vague enough to be not a lie") :)
Siuan is indeed the Amyrlin Seat, and wields that authority over Moiraine in public. They just set their titles and positions aside when they are in private in order to maintain their relationship. They maintain an outward hostility to each other in order to hide the fact they've been working together for 20 years to try to find the Dragon Reborn.
I was a little bit shocked when I saw it. But this makes sense since it makes moirane's exile even more compelling since she'll never be able to see siuan again
Brandon Sanderson, the author that finished the WoT series from Robert Jordans notes after his death, has said that this was his favorite episode of the season.
9:46 No lies, she can't lie. You see now? Aes Sedai are experts at this wordplay. Egwene: Rand and Mat are they... (cut off before she can ask directly) _Moiraine: I have people watching for their arrival. But I have it in good authority (herself) that they're alive._ Egwene: (accepts the answer) Rand: Egwene, Perrin, are they here? *Moiraine: I have watchers, I'll know when they arrive. (Did not answer question. Arrive where? Will she tell him when they arrive?)* Rand: (accepts the answer) Only Nynaeve asks the almost right question, 'But will you tell me?', which Moiraine does not answer. She can still skirt it, by saying 'I will tell you -in a 100 years over your grave'.-
@@yelno3026 Yep. There is such a thing as a lie by omission. A lie propagated by leaving out crucial information and failing to correct misconceptions.
@@Matthewvhaynes she withheld the truth from all the kids so that they wouldn't leave the city without her. Moiraine had to stay long enough for her penance and exile. If she had brought the kids all together before then, no doubt they would have left without her (especially if Nynaeve is leading the group) at the end of the day none of the kids are ready or wanting this adventure, they all just wanna go back home. Moiraine can't have that, since one of them is the Dragon.
And that's how Barney Harris leaves the show. We don't know the reasons, but Mat was recast for season 2. The last 2 episodes were filmed much later because of Covid, and no Mat in them. I think they reshot this last scene to make it look like Mat stayed behind.
Just found your channel tonight as I’m obsessing over WOT review videos, and you have the BEST freaking energy. I don’t normally enjoy watch along style videos, but your reactions make me feel like I’m watching along with a friend, instead of a UA-cam response. I’m feeling the same emotions as you from one moment to the next and I love it so hard 🤩 can’t wait for future watch alongs! Cheers from one of your newest subscribers 😃
Moiraine says she has watchers looking for Egwene's friends. That's true. She says she has it on good authority that they're alive. That's also true. Her wording allows her to conceal information without breaking the First Oath: "To speak no word that is not true."
“I have people watching their arrival”, all she would need to do is have at least 2 people to watch for the arrival of people matching May and Rand’s description to be true, which she must have done, or else she couldn’t have said that. “I have it on good authority that they’re alive”, she herself knows they are alive, and where they are, which makes that fact not only true, but demonstrable, should she choose to demonstrate it. Note that she technically doesn’t say “I don’t know” or “they aren’t here yet” which would be outright lies. To quote Moiraine from ep 2: “Exact verbiage, words are important and how we use them are important.” And again from later the same episode: “We will always tell the truth, it just may not be the truth you think you hear, so listen carefully.” ;)
'they're arrival' also could be stretched to mean the arrival and settling-in of Matt and Rand until the point they get to the tower, which they haven't.
Apparently this was the last episode filmed before COVID hit. The actor playing Mat left the show during the downtime (nobody knows why), which is apparently why he was left behind.
Yeah I guess he erased his social media & everything. I'm sorta worried about the guy. 😬 Hope he's doing OK. Its unusual for somebody to just drop off the face of the earth, right after being accepted as a main cast member of a major television show like this. Especially when your character is so important, and you would have been on the show for many seasons.
I actually started to like this version for Mat. Hopefully season 2 actor can keep it up with Mat's character as it's the most "vocal" character of the story :D
"I have it on good authority that they are alive" - Not technically a lie. She knows they are alive, since she just saw them. Also she said she'd let them know. Just not that she'd let them know right away. Moiraine and Siuan became "pillow friends" when they were Novices and Accepted (trainees in the Tower) together. Pillow friends are close relationships between the trainees, heavily implied to be lesbian ones, although supposedly most women give them up when they become full Aes Sedai. This particular scene isn't in the books (and I don't think I remember any implied physical relationship between them after they become Aes Sedai), however their relationship is pretty clear in the prequel book, even if it's subtle. Even in the main series, they clearly still have affection for one another. So, yes, the relationship is cannon in the books. However, Jordan wasn't the best at writing romantic relationships and the show just make things a little more obvious. Siuan's power isn't "just for show". She really is the Amrylin Seat and holds all the political power. Notice how when Moiraine takes the oath she swears to obey Siuan. Not the Amrylin Seat. Sneaky Aes Sedai. Just to be clear, when Moiraine is meeting with Siuan she doesn't cut the Bond. She is just masking it, which means that Lan can't pinpoint where she is or know her feelings (notifications on mute is a good analogy!). If she hadn't done that, then Lan would be able to feel everything that was going on. Sometimes you need a little privacy, even from the person you are magically bonded to.
Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country. - The Official Robert Jordan Blog, September 30, 2005 That's Robert Jordan on the term pillow friends. It's an exclusive term used in the tower and there are other terms for the same types of relationships elsewhere.
@@mattrovine9644 I'm aware of it being a sexual relationship as well, but thank you for the quote. He is pretty subtle about it in the main books, but IMO it's clear what's going on in New Spring.
Well she said when they Enter the White Tower, end people watching gates of the White Tower ... its all true, Mat and Rand are at the inn in Tar Valon not in the white tower
@@Tekki_89 I talked about lore, not specific spoilers. I never mentioned anything that is going to happen, unless you're counting the bit about the pillow friends as a spoiler, but that is heavily mentioned in all the other comments. And he did specifically ask if they had a relationship in the books.
24:00 In the book, they don't have an explicit relationship; however the Siuan/Moiraine pairing is one of the most famous fan theories/ships. In the book, they have been best friends since they were Novices in the Tower. And that is a friendship they end up publicly distancing themselves from as they become Aes Sedai, making everyone forget, so they can secretly conspire together for the past 20 years to search for and find the Dragon Reborn. As hinted at in their post-coital conversation, that's a secret they can't tell the other sisters, because it's just way too politically charged. They understand that the Dragon Reborn must be prepared and guided (and not gentled) so that he can face the Dark One in the Last Battle; however, there are factions within the Tower, not just the Reds, though especially them, who would seek to gentle the Dragon Reborn immediately and thus doom the world.
Enjoying your reactions dude. I have mad love for this book series and I’m loving the show. This cast is killing it. Everyone is nailing their roles. But omg the dude playing Lolial has just owned this adaptation. Wow. Everyone is perfectly cast and Lolial just said, “hold my beer.”
25:11 Siuan Sanche is the Amyrlin Seat. Period. Moiraine has never been associated with it in any way. What you're picking up on is simply that when they're alone together, they put that public hierarchy aside and have a very different dynamic, apparently.
Siuan and Moiraine have been part of the plot and search for the Dragon since the Seeing at the Dragon's birth. Given that task by the then Amyrlin they have been playing the inside outside game for a very long time.
In the prequel New Spring, Siuan and Moiraine are lovers, a relationship that is elaborated upon in the Wheel of Time Companion. However it's indicated both are mostly heteroamorous, and their relationship ended not long after they were raised Aes Sedai. The change is awesome. It humanizes both of them and highlights their distaste for rules in a sympathetic way. Also, Siuan is most definitely the Amyrlin, but she has to trust Moiraine knows what she's doing out in the world, and run interference.
@@rymdalkis I disagree, but can't say exactly why due to spoilers... It might complicate that relationship you referred to post book 12, but the characters are mature enough to work through it. I really wish I could elaborate more and be less vague, but it's *gigantic* spoilers...
@@rymdalkis Ah, that's cool. So... Spoilers below, lol. --- Siuane and Brynn can totally have a relationship after Moiraine "dies". She was grieving the loss of her Warder after bring healed from stilling, so I can't imagine she couldn't start a new relationship grieving the loss of Moiraine. I do also love the relationship between Siuane and Brynn in the books. It'll be a tough order to get people onboard after how great the chemistry between Siuane and Moiraine was in this episode, but it's doable.
@@PetalwingStudio The thing is It's very different from Siuan losing her Warder and losing her soulmate, which is essentially what Moiraine is portrayed as. Alric (her Warder) wasn't her lover. As you conceded yourself, it'll be very hard to convince the audience to be onboard for the Siuan-Bryne ship soon after Moiraine's "death". And furthermore, it'll make things very awkward once Moiraine returns by the end and Siuan is fully in a relationship with Bryne. I'm sorry to say this but they totally dropped the ball on this one. There was no reason to give them this sort of relationship when we already had the incredibly endearing relationship of Moiraine and Siuan that we saw in the books.
I love that they brought a piece of their relationship from the books to the screen, re: Siuan and Moiraine. It's established they were lovers as novices and perhaps into being accepted, prior to being raised to Aes Sedai. In the books, this relationship is something we don't get to see because she is away for 20 years, Siuan is becoming Amyrlin, but they are essentially best friends; not to mention sharing the most dangerous plan on the planet in finding the Dragon and helping them.
She has ppl watching - true. She will tell them when they enter the white tower - true. The relationship between them is in the books, but not emphasized much, just in the prequel.
In the book they weren't currently in a relationship but may have in the past. In public they're enemies, but in private they're working together which is the same as the book.
And if you were paying attention, the woman they said "saw" the Dragon when he was reborn is the one Mo mentioned to the group earlier in the series born with white eyes but saw better than anyone. The woman was very old, close to death, Mo and Su were attending her as accepted when she had the vision, then promptly died. Everything the two have done since has been towards finding the Dragon and preparing for the Last Battle
Moiraine and Siuan were both Novices (and Accepted) at the same time. They were pillow friends. They both were coincidentally there, when Gitara Moroso (the Aes Sedai to whom Moiraine referred in Ep1) foretold the rebirth of the dragon. After beeing raised to the shawl (becoming an Aes Sedai) they both chose the blue Ajah. Later on, Siuan had been elected/raised to the Amyrlin Seat. So, yes, this story line stays 99% true to the books... One last thing about lying... Moiraine did not lie, as others mentioned already... Did you notice, that Moiraine, did not repeat the oath exactly... She did not swore to the "Amyrlin Seat"... She swore to Siuan Sanche... That's how Aes Sedai are going to "lie" ;-)
@@andrewveatch1920 if I would want to start reading the books but starting with this point more or less, with which book/chapter would you recommend me to start with? (I imagine the books are way better but I don't want to start with the beginning)
Love watching your reaction videos - your reaction to the Moiraine/Siuan reveal was fantastic! Reiterating what others have said, Moiraine and Siuan were canonically in a relationship at one point during the series, and this was confirmed by the author. They actually ended things specifically because of their mission to find the Dragon Reborn - they could only trust each other, and decided that one of them had to be out in the world looking while the other should be in the Tower, trying to get in a position of power so she could help the searcher. And they didn’t want anyone to know that they were in cahoots, so they broke off their relationship for the cause. It’s a heartbreaking story, and I LOVE that the show brought it to the forefront and amped up the tension on it by having them still trying to maintain their relationship over the 20 years of searching. Also (not a spoiler, just speculation based on the show so far) we’ve mostly heard about what the Blues are from Liandrin, who seems pretty biased. The whole sacrificing your own happiness for the sake of a higher cause thing that Moiraine and Siuan have going on could also be part of being a Blue.
Just finished watching the episode and came straight to youtube to watch ur reactions. Absolutely love ur reaction and thoughts on this amazing show. 🔥
A bit on the cold open: Siuan is Tairen, and channeling is outlawed in Tear. So any girl found to channel is sent upriver to Tar Valon as soon as they can stuff her on the first boat they can find.
In the books they were lovers when they first came to the Tower and they made a conscious decision to have a public "break" so they wouldn't appear to be plotting
Moiraine and Siuan through me for a f**king loop. Not because it's two women together (for the idiots who think that) but because the way they acted in the throne room. They definitely didn't give any hints whats so ever that they are together. I guess I've always saw Moiraine as this serious, driven woman. To see her so in love and happy, especially with the person who is their leader, I just didn't expect that; but what a wonderful surprise it was. That banishment scene was so heartbreaking and I hope they do get their happy ending😊 P.S. Liandrin is such a messy b**ch...
Show watcher only here. It sounds like they became lovers while they were both in the blue ajah. I think the reason why Suian ageees to exile M is bc she also know and agrees that M has to find the Dragon reborn to defeat the dark one. She said that her and M were present when the birth of the DR was prophesied by another Aes Sedai. Sounds like no one else knows about it
10:00 "she lied" ... That's classic Aes Sedai. Every single thing she said was technically true. It's just not the truth you think you hear. "I have people watching for their arrival" = technically true. Eyes and ears at the city gates are still watching for the people she's told them to watch for. Some number of those, who actually saw and already reported it, aren't watching anymore, but the rest probably haven't been told they don't need to anymore, so "I have people watching for their arrival" is still technically true. And "But I have it on good authority that they're alive" is also technically true; what better authority than Moiraine herself? Put those technically true statements together and you're given the impression that they haven't arrived in the city yet. That's how Aes Sedai speak around the Three Oaths. Among those familiar with Aes Sedai, they're famous for it. Even though they genuinely can not lie, they're masters of exploiting technicalities and word choice to lie right to your face, without ever once actually lying. That's why you'll sometimes see people demand an Aes Sedai to say something out plainly and directly. Otherwise, there's no telling if what you heard is really what you think you did.
Even when they say it plainly and directly it's often misleading. You have to ask them the same question 10 ways before you can have some picture that they are telling the truth. And you have to look for any little crack because they can drive a tanker truck through the smallest gap.
From what I understood in the books, they had been in a relationship prior, and already had this bittersweet goodbye when Moiraine took off to scour the world for clues to the identity of this child born on the slopes of Dragonmount
As someone who read the books and is absolutely loving the adaptation, your reactions are so much fun! It’s like getting to enjoy that time of speculation and hoping all over again. ❤️
The music piece that moved us so much when taking the oaths is called Al'Naito (The Flame) and the chorus lines we can hear there are "La'aldrelle kiseri , Al Tar Valon, cierto naito" translated by Joan Albright means "Glorious river daughter ,Tar valon's enduring flame" 🤍
Recently found your reviews...I've never watch reviews before, but it's fun seeing your reactions. I had to go back and watch all episodes, then followed your link to your wife's and watch hers. They are great! I was wondering if y'all ever got to watch anything together, so I was happy to hear about Ep8. Looking forward to it. I like how they showed White Tower politics this ep, and the warder bond last ep. Those things are easier to describe in books when you have endless pages lol so glad they were able to make it come across in the show. Happy you and your wife are enjoying it and keep up the good work!
Love your reactions, I love seeing new fans loving the story. Couple things: Siuan + Moiraine = Cannon, it started as novices and no one knows if/when it ended officially, but Siuan stayed in the tower and eventually became Amyrlin and Moiraine left the tower to search. Please ignore the haters. Most of the fandom are NOT the toxic wank stains I have seen in a lot of comments. This show absolutely encompasses the heart and soul of not only the story, but the characters. A lot of the toxic people are complaining that it is not following the book well… it is, they have just changed the timeline on a few things because they are trying to adapt the entire series as a whole, not a book at a time. The stuff from episode 5 & 6 is not in the forefront in the books, but that is because the first book is from only 3 POVs and adapting the book as is would have been terrible TV. All the changes make sense for the whole story and everyone we have been introduced to so far is important. The only Aes Sedai you meet in the first book is Moiraine, it would have been insane to keep that in the show when looking at the whole story. Anyway, sorry for the rant, these “bookcloaks” have been really annoying and I sincerely hope they don’t turn you off from the show or the books. Both are fabulous.
I’m reading the books, and I follow all of the major WoT reviewers, but I’ve got to say, your videos are my absolute favorite. I just love how genuinely invested you are in the story, and how keen you are on picking up all of those details and emotional beats of the show! And how invested you are in these characters. It makes me even more invested in the show after seeing your reactions and takes on it. Thank you for your work!! 🙏
Moraine and Suin were "pillow friends" while they were training to become Aes sedai. And formed the conspiracy to find the dragon reborn and protect and guide them in the future.
Moiraine and Siuan’s relationship is hinted at in the books. It’s a common thing in the White Tower for novices to become “pillow friends”. So they have been lovers since they both first came to the Tower.
The Ways were made to connect Ogier Stedding by Male Channelers who were still sane during the Breaking of the World so that Ogier could travel between Steddings without suffering the Longing. That's why Loial is a bit of an expert in traveling the ways (or at least the lore behind it).
Okay, so Siuan and Moiraine were what was known as "pillow-friends" in the books, which is that Robert Jordan wrote that while women are training in the White Tower before they become Aes Sedai, they find sexual and emotional relief in each other. Moiraine and Siuan did carry on that relationship a bit longer after they both were raised to Aes Sedai. The show's decision to extend this into them becoming lovers is a natural extension, but is not canon in the books depending on how you view the "pillow-friend" relationships. So, Siuan is the Amyrlin Seat, and she's strict with Moiraine on the surface because she has no choice, because she needs to do politics in front of the other Aes Sedai in public who have no idea that they are working together. Moiraine was never the Amyrlin Seat.
Did you notice the scene with the oath rod, where she should say she cannot come back unless the Amyrlin seat calls her back, but she says Suian Sanchen rather than the Amyrlin seat, so her oath is to Suain not to the the Amyrlin seat, that is my theory anyway, that the oath is to her and not the seat, so if someone else becomes the Amyrlin and tries to call moiraine back she doesn't have to respond, i am a non book reader but just something i noticed. As they keep saying Moirane is clever with her words.
Absolutely great pickup on the doorway items that both Moiraine and Siuan have in their rooms. Their significance will be revealed somewhere down the road.
In the book Moiraine does not come back to white Tower so we don't really know for sure, yet we do know they had something going on when they were novices .. they referred to it as Pillow friends ... but when it comes to the plot about Dragon and them both working together secretly on it as well as their hidden friendship that is almost same as in the book! In the book, even one other Aes Sedai said to Moirane "Others may not know or may not remember ... but I do remember two of you were pillow friends as novices! "
Just FYI, the entire album called The First Turn is released on pretty much evert major streaming platforms as well on as on youtube on Amazon Prime's channel. The songs used in the show are pretty much snippets of the album mixed and modified in one way or another
From my opinion its a change that is only good. In the books they worked together but pretended to hate each other for politics reasons, and this just makes that more meaningful and emotionally present.
the actor who played matt Quit the show on episode 6! he was dealing with family problems and the set had to be shut down do to covid out breaks. Matt will return in season 2 by a new actor!
Another banger man. Another hang up with the oath is that if the aes sedai believes something is true she's not lying. Information distance and time distorting it is a big thing through out the series.
An example of not being able to break the oaths is used when the Amrylin asks Moiraine what she has been doing during her travels. She had obviously taken an Oath with The Amrylin a long time ago, so when the Amrylin asks her that direct question, the Amrylin knows she cannot answer it due to the Oath rod, you can see Moiraine struggle with the One Power before she says, “I cannot.”
Killing him isn’t the threat. The threat I assumed to be that Liandrin is banging the guy and Moiraine is threatening to tell the other Red sisters about him thus exposing that Liandrin doesn’t hate all men which is kind of the defining trait in the Red Ajah which would lower her standing among them.
@@ijustwanttolikecomments4677 gentling is cutting a guy off from being able to use the one power. If there was a male channeler known, they would already be all over it. Moiraine would have already had it handled instead of keeping it a secret.
Book Mat is often amusingly preoccupied with finding a way to bail when his skin might be on the line, so though this exact scene was not in the book, it was perfectly in character for him and I loved it.
They wouldn't torture logain, but since he's gentle he's a husk of his former self and now wants to die, like what happened to Thom's newfew owen. Yes Morraine x Suian is a thing in the book but Siuan is still very much the Amyrlin Seat Morraine is not the one pulling strings if that's what you think.
OMFG LOL I only caught this now. They moved The Queens Blessing from Caemlyn to Tar Valon and renamed it The Lights Blessing. So I assume that innkeeper was Basil Gill?
I loved those moments where Nynaeve and Egwene got taken down a notch lol. Nynaeve when Moiraine told her she almost killed Mat for her pride, and Egwene when she thought the Amyrlin was ranking about her as the most powerful channeler but it was Nynaeve. 🤣🤣 Tbh, Nynaeve and Egwene have always been 2 of my favorite characters but I do like them getting checked when they need it. Ego is too easy to get out of hand when you're a powerful channeler.🤣🤣
You totally nailed Egwene-- good job! A general explanation about Moiraine and Siuan's relationship. Women generally spend 10-15 years studying to become Aes Sedai, beginning age 15-16. It is EXTREMELY stressful, and in addition they are cut off from the outside world and men during that time. Due to these circumstances, it is not unusual for Novices and Accepted to turn to each other and become "pillow friends" both for support and comfort as well as sexual desire. Moiraine and Siuan were two such novices, who were also best friends. Most Aes Sedai walk away from pillow friend relationships once they are raised to AS (unless they are actually gay). M&S discontinued theirs, but remained best friends. Also, listen to their private conversation, when Siuan said they both heard Gitara's foretelling about the Dragon being reborn; they were the only ones. That is why they alone share the secret that Moiraine has been searching for the DR for 20 years. (They're both in the early 40's.) Hope this clears up a little confusion. 😊
In case you wonder Mat was supposed to walk in with them but filming was interrupted due to covid, 3 times apparently ... Because the filming of season one took almost 3 years and the contract is binding actors for 2 years per season... the rumor is Barney who plays Mat decided not to come back to finish the season ... The final image of Mat and them looking at Mat through the Waygate is some old footage of Mat re-used just to save production ... till they decide what to do with the plot in order to make it work as well as replace the Actor ... also interesting fact Waygates are Jordan's homage to Tolkien's Mines of Moria, in the book, waygate door looks like the one in Lord of the rings and there is a secret password/ key to enter it ... but they change it for Tv show
It was in the books (prequel) but its extended in expanded here. And yeah, that was a very good descision and change, it also helps with cutting minor plotlines from further books and just condensing them here :)
Given the timeline of the books, Moraine and Siuan are maybe forty. But everyone has been ages up for the show, because in the books, the kids are all between 16 and 18, Nynaeve also a few years older than them. Moraine and Siuan were both there as Accepted (the second level between Novice and full Aes Sedai) in the the Amyrlin's study 20 years before 18 in the books), attending the Amyrlin, when Gitana Moroso had the vision of the Dragon's birth. The vision said that he had just been born. That's how they know how old he/she should be. The Amyrlin set them the task of finding the child and swore them to secrecy. That's why Moraine couldn't say what she had been doing. She literally couldn't say it.
She never said "when" exactly she'd let her know AND she said the term "friends" which can mean any number of people not specifically anyone of those people. Also she said she'd bring them to her, but since Nyneave found some of them on her own, she broke the stipulations because she kept it from Moiraine.
This episode was kind of new material for book readers, too. Nearly all of it is drawn from the books but much of it we never got to see or it happened at different times/places. It was a very good episode(IMO) but it obviously took some adjusting. Seeing your reactions, and perspective, is really helpful with that. So thanks for being awesome and glad you're enjoying the show. PS The Ways are crazy and some next-level Fantasy stuff. Get hype.
Aes Sedai (in the books) can live for about 300 years. Moiraine isn’t that old, she is probably in her early 40’s. Moiraine and Siuan were best friends when they were training in The White Tower. But Siuan became the Amyrlin Seat, and they can’t have best friends anymore. Not publicly, and a relationship would definitely show favoritism. I don’t know if you caught it in the show, but they said they were the only two who heard the prophecy by Gitara. They are the only two who know that the Dragon was reborn 20 years ago. The relationship is more upfront in the show, but they were “pillow friends” when they were training, which means they were hooking up. It’s pretty common, but the relationships do not usually last. I think it’s super dope to confirm what was never explicitly shown.
"Turn notifications on mute" lmao. Great take dude. They were intimate in the books but never explicitly together, a hell of a lot of people shipped them before anything happened on screen put it that way. And they were described as 'pillowfriends', a term in the books that is a bit of a victim of its age but essentially a none direct way of saying banging
I think the same thing when I hear a song I like in the show lol there was one song in episode 2 right after they run into the white cloaks and right before they sing about Manetheran, where they are just riding on horseback across the land and this song plays and it’s SOO GOOD but I can’t find it anywhere, it’s not in either volumes of the soundtrack and it’s driving me nuts because I love it so much but can’t find it! If anyone knows the one I’m talking about please let me know!
Re: Moiraine and Siuan- minor change (were implied lovers, implied it’s not continuing by time the books start, but they are friends). I’m more than okay with it - their romantic arcs are lackluster in the books so this makes things more interesting.
Realistically, they could have almost any person fall in love with any other person in the show, and it would probably be done better than RJ lol. Love this series to death, and I will always love it, the wheel and snake was my first tattoo, but RJ couldn't write romance haha.
@@kylecook7187 overall agree (with a couple exceptions)- I do like the platonic relationships with hints at romance: avoiding spoilers, the queen 🦁 and her “maiden” are done well, for instance
Funny thing is when Moiraine smiled and just before you said that was the first time we've seen her that natural, I suddenly thought of a scene in book two where (no plot spoilers) Perrin walks in on her brushing her hair, and is basically dumbstruck for...well kinda the same reason. She suddenly seems like a human woman and not this powerful and untrustworthy Aes Sedai. Its a really nice awkward moment :D I'd also note Siuan is a little harsher to Logain than is implied in the books (we don't see the actual scene). Men are...effectively cared for / put on suicide watch as a form of kindness, though it rarely works very well. Channellers react to losing the ability to touch the pwoer much the same way Warders get after their Aes Sedai dies (minus the berserker rage stage).
"moraine is she the leader?" Ye, in the sheets. I don't remember it happening on the page but pillow friends is a thing in the books, so it makes sense for it to be that way.
New Spring hints more heavily at their relationship. Personally this is the only change so far that I can fully get behind and support. The rest were either tolerable or annoying
11:20 "Is she like an old, old lady?" Actually, both she and Siuan are pretty young by Aes Sedai standards (Early 40s for both of them), while using the Power grants Aes Sedai a longer lifespan than normal people.
I think you've already seen the "pillow friends" comment threads, but I suspect this was changed entirely for the series was to make it more apparent. The Pillow Friends concept in the books kinda implied that sexuality is something that you can "phase off" once you're older. I actually like this adaptation.
I know I'm late to the party and someone's probably already commented about it. Moraine didn't tell Egwene about the others because she knew that she would want to see them and wouldn't listen if she told them to stay put for their own safety. She is trying to hide their presence from others who don't need to know. Telling them that she will know when they arrive, and that she has it on good authority they are alive is the best way to keep these bullheaded kids in one place. It turns out that Linandrin found out about them, but Moraine was trying to keep her (and as many as possible) unaware.
As far as the books go. Siuan and Moiraine were lovers in their teens and early twenties. After they were raised as full Aes Sedai they stopped sleeping together but remained very close as friends. Moiraine spends the next 20 years searching for the Dragon Reborn and Siuan arose within the Aes Sedai rank and became Amyrlin. The only change from the books to the show regarding their relationship is that they are still romantically involved in their adulthood.
Rewatch what she says, she never lies, she crafts the words just right. I heard this was where Barney ends as Mat, and the recast for season 2 occurs, but that could be untrue
Check out my wife's reaction to this episode : ua-cam.com/video/hjVVhmU-O4Y/v-deo.html
yeah she is amazing!
It will be amazing see you both react to the last chapter
Just got done watching Shannon's ty
The big asian girl in yellow at the tower was the same girl that played beth in wandavision
Moiraine said “I have it on good authority that they’re alive” which is true, she has it on her own authority.
Loved that perfect lie without lying.
Also said "I have watchers looking out for their arrival." (Or close to that)
@@WinterOnTheWeb to which I say those "watchers" might not know that they have arrived already 😀🤔 thus STILL not a lie 😉
@@reeferman42078 agree 100% - thanks for making the point I was trying to (I obviously left out the key part which was "that's vague enough to be not a lie") :)
That, and Mat and Rand are in the city; they haven't 'arrived' at the Tower yet
Siuan is indeed the Amyrlin Seat, and wields that authority over Moiraine in public. They just set their titles and positions aside when they are in private in order to maintain their relationship. They maintain an outward hostility to each other in order to hide the fact they've been working together for 20 years to try to find the Dragon Reborn.
It was heavily implied that they were in a relationship as Novices in the books, the showrunners just decided to make it more apparent.
Edit: they were in a relationship as novices in the books.
They were pillowfriends, but she likes both
@@Ashwgun yeah… pillowfriends = lovers… not a huge step to make from that to making it a romance. Much better than the books as it is.
I was a little bit shocked when I saw it. But this makes sense since it makes moirane's exile even more compelling since she'll never be able to see siuan again
Im glad its a thing!
Brandon Sanderson, the author that finished the WoT series from Robert Jordans notes after his death, has said that this was his favorite episode of the season.
It was his favorite to read the script, in seeing the episodes his favorite became 7 (if I recall right).
9:46 No lies, she can't lie. You see now? Aes Sedai are experts at this wordplay.
Egwene: Rand and Mat are they... (cut off before she can ask directly)
_Moiraine: I have people watching for their arrival. But I have it in good authority (herself) that they're alive._
Egwene: (accepts the answer)
Rand: Egwene, Perrin, are they here?
*Moiraine: I have watchers, I'll know when they arrive. (Did not answer question. Arrive where? Will she tell him when they arrive?)*
Rand: (accepts the answer)
Only Nynaeve asks the almost right question, 'But will you tell me?', which Moiraine does not answer. She can still skirt it, by saying 'I will tell you -in a 100 years over your grave'.-
Minor nitpick, but Aes Sedai can speak no word that is untrue. Fine distinction I know, but worthy of mention I think.
Its so interesting how she does that
@@yelno3026 Yep. There is such a thing as a lie by omission. A lie propagated by leaving out crucial information and failing to correct misconceptions.
@@Matthewvhaynes she withheld the truth from all the kids so that they wouldn't leave the city without her. Moiraine had to stay long enough for her penance and exile. If she had brought the kids all together before then, no doubt they would have left without her (especially if Nynaeve is leading the group) at the end of the day none of the kids are ready or wanting this adventure, they all just wanna go back home.
Moiraine can't have that, since one of them is the Dragon.
And that's how Barney Harris leaves the show. We don't know the reasons, but Mat was recast for season 2. The last 2 episodes were filmed much later because of Covid, and no Mat in them. I think they reshot this last scene to make it look like Mat stayed behind.
Ohhh dang that's wack he's a good actor
Just found your channel tonight as I’m obsessing over WOT review videos, and you have the BEST freaking energy. I don’t normally enjoy watch along style videos, but your reactions make me feel like I’m watching along with a friend, instead of a UA-cam response. I’m feeling the same emotions as you from one moment to the next and I love it so hard 🤩 can’t wait for future watch alongs! Cheers from one of your newest subscribers 😃
Thank you! Glad you were able to find some enjoyment In this style of video! 🙏🏿
Moiraine says she has watchers looking for Egwene's friends. That's true.
She says she has it on good authority that they're alive. That's also true.
Her wording allows her to conceal information without breaking the First Oath: "To speak no word that is not true."
“I have people watching their arrival”, all she would need to do is have at least 2 people to watch for the arrival of people matching May and Rand’s description to be true, which she must have done, or else she couldn’t have said that.
“I have it on good authority that they’re alive”, she herself knows they are alive, and where they are, which makes that fact not only true, but demonstrable, should she choose to demonstrate it.
Note that she technically doesn’t say “I don’t know” or “they aren’t here yet” which would be outright lies. To quote Moiraine from ep 2: “Exact verbiage, words are important and how we use them are important.” And again from later the same episode: “We will always tell the truth, it just may not be the truth you think you hear, so listen carefully.” ;)
Even when she says something like "I'll let you know when they're here" afterwards she could define "here" as "in this room"
'they're arrival' also could be stretched to mean the arrival and settling-in of Matt and Rand until the point they get to the tower, which they haven't.
Apparently this was the last episode filmed before COVID hit. The actor playing Mat left the show during the downtime (nobody knows why), which is apparently why he was left behind.
Yeah I guess he erased his social media & everything. I'm sorta worried about the guy. 😬 Hope he's doing OK. Its unusual for somebody to just drop off the face of the earth, right after being accepted as a main cast member of a major television show like this. Especially when your character is so important, and you would have been on the show for many seasons.
I actually started to like this version for Mat. Hopefully season 2 actor can keep it up with Mat's character as it's the most "vocal" character of the story :D
"I have it on good authority that they are alive" - Not technically a lie. She knows they are alive, since she just saw them. Also she said she'd let them know. Just not that she'd let them know right away.
Moiraine and Siuan became "pillow friends" when they were Novices and Accepted (trainees in the Tower) together. Pillow friends are close relationships between the trainees, heavily implied to be lesbian ones, although supposedly most women give them up when they become full Aes Sedai. This particular scene isn't in the books (and I don't think I remember any implied physical relationship between them after they become Aes Sedai), however their relationship is pretty clear in the prequel book, even if it's subtle. Even in the main series, they clearly still have affection for one another. So, yes, the relationship is cannon in the books. However, Jordan wasn't the best at writing romantic relationships and the show just make things a little more obvious. Siuan's power isn't "just for show". She really is the Amrylin Seat and holds all the political power.
Notice how when Moiraine takes the oath she swears to obey Siuan. Not the Amrylin Seat. Sneaky Aes Sedai.
Just to be clear, when Moiraine is meeting with Siuan she doesn't cut the Bond. She is just masking it, which means that Lan can't pinpoint where she is or know her feelings (notifications on mute is a good analogy!). If she hadn't done that, then Lan would be able to feel everything that was going on. Sometimes you need a little privacy, even from the person you are magically bonded to.
Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country.
- The Official Robert Jordan Blog, September 30, 2005
That's Robert Jordan on the term pillow friends. It's an exclusive term used in the tower and there are other terms for the same types of relationships elsewhere.
@@mattrovine9644 I'm aware of it being a sexual relationship as well, but thank you for the quote. He is pretty subtle about it in the main books, but IMO it's clear what's going on in New Spring.
@@desertrose0027 Yeah I'm aware you understood. I was providing context for those who are unaware and new to the series.
Well she said when they Enter the White Tower, end people watching gates of the White Tower ... its all true, Mat and Rand are at the inn in Tar Valon not in the white tower
@@Tekki_89 I talked about lore, not specific spoilers. I never mentioned anything that is going to happen, unless you're counting the bit about the pillow friends as a spoiler, but that is heavily mentioned in all the other comments. And he did specifically ask if they had a relationship in the books.
24:00 In the book, they don't have an explicit relationship; however the Siuan/Moiraine pairing is one of the most famous fan theories/ships. In the book, they have been best friends since they were Novices in the Tower. And that is a friendship they end up publicly distancing themselves from as they become Aes Sedai, making everyone forget, so they can secretly conspire together for the past 20 years to search for and find the Dragon Reborn. As hinted at in their post-coital conversation, that's a secret they can't tell the other sisters, because it's just way too politically charged. They understand that the Dragon Reborn must be prepared and guided (and not gentled) so that he can face the Dark One in the Last Battle; however, there are factions within the Tower, not just the Reds, though especially them, who would seek to gentle the Dragon Reborn immediately and thus doom the world.
Read the prequel they were pillow friends.
RJ confirmed in his blog they were lovers
Moiraine/ Siuan is canon, they are actually kissing in "New Spring".
"They have a CONJOINECTION !!"
lol, you crack me up man, please never stop these reactions.
Enjoying your reactions dude. I have mad love for this book series and I’m loving the show. This cast is killing it. Everyone is nailing their roles. But omg the dude playing Lolial has just owned this adaptation. Wow. Everyone is perfectly cast and Lolial just said, “hold my beer.”
25:11 Siuan Sanche is the Amyrlin Seat. Period. Moiraine has never been associated with it in any way. What you're picking up on is simply that when they're alone together, they put that public hierarchy aside and have a very different dynamic, apparently.
Siuan and Moiraine have been part of the plot and search for the Dragon since the Seeing at the Dragon's birth. Given that task by the then Amyrlin they have been playing the inside outside game for a very long time.
Light Spoilers. The way Moiraine repeats that line and Siuan obeys has the fandom SHOOK because of reasons...
In the prequel New Spring, Siuan and Moiraine are lovers, a relationship that is elaborated upon in the Wheel of Time Companion. However it's indicated both are mostly heteroamorous, and their relationship ended not long after they were raised Aes Sedai.
The change is awesome. It humanizes both of them and highlights their distaste for rules in a sympathetic way. Also, Siuan is most definitely the Amyrlin, but she has to trust Moiraine knows what she's doing out in the world, and run interference.
It makes two future relationships impossible, one of which is one of the most celebrated among the fans of the books...
@@rymdalkis I disagree, but can't say exactly why due to spoilers... It might complicate that relationship you referred to post book 12, but the characters are mature enough to work through it. I really wish I could elaborate more and be less vague, but it's *gigantic* spoilers...
@@PetalwingStudio We could discuss this by jumping down a couple of lines like this
This way people don't have to risk being spoiled.
@@rymdalkis Ah, that's cool.
So... Spoilers below, lol.
---
Siuane and Brynn can totally have a relationship after Moiraine "dies". She was grieving the loss of her Warder after bring healed from stilling, so I can't imagine she couldn't start a new relationship grieving the loss of Moiraine.
I do also love the relationship between Siuane and Brynn in the books. It'll be a tough order to get people onboard after how great the chemistry between Siuane and Moiraine was in this episode, but it's doable.
@@PetalwingStudio The thing is
It's very different from Siuan losing her Warder and losing her soulmate, which is essentially what Moiraine is portrayed as. Alric (her Warder) wasn't her lover. As you conceded yourself, it'll be very hard to convince the audience to be onboard for the Siuan-Bryne ship soon after Moiraine's "death". And furthermore, it'll make things very awkward once Moiraine returns by the end and Siuan is fully in a relationship with Bryne.
I'm sorry to say this but they totally dropped the ball on this one. There was no reason to give them this sort of relationship when we already had the incredibly endearing relationship of Moiraine and Siuan that we saw in the books.
I love that they brought a piece of their relationship from the books to the screen, re: Siuan and Moiraine. It's established they were lovers as novices and perhaps into being accepted, prior to being raised to Aes Sedai. In the books, this relationship is something we don't get to see because she is away for 20 years, Siuan is becoming Amyrlin, but they are essentially best friends; not to mention sharing the most dangerous plan on the planet in finding the Dragon and helping them.
She has ppl watching - true.
She will tell them when they enter the white tower - true.
The relationship between them is in the books, but not emphasized much, just in the prequel.
Yeah that's the funny thing about New Spring, tons of the hardcore WoT fans never even read that lol. It's fun but it isn't really important at all.
Wait I just remembered the ending. Not that fun. Cool is a better word
In the book they weren't currently in a relationship but may have in the past. In public they're enemies, but in private they're working together which is the same as the book.
"Pillow friends" as novices ;)
And if you were paying attention, the woman they said "saw" the Dragon when he was reborn is the one Mo mentioned to the group earlier in the series born with white eyes but saw better than anyone.
The woman was very old, close to death, Mo and Su were attending her as accepted when she had the vision, then promptly died.
Everything the two have done since has been towards finding the Dragon and preparing for the Last Battle
Im living for their lesbian relationship ahhhhhhh
Ahhhh I love it!
Moiraine and Siuan were both Novices (and Accepted) at the same time.
They were pillow friends.
They both were coincidentally there, when Gitara Moroso (the Aes Sedai to whom Moiraine referred in Ep1) foretold the rebirth of the dragon.
After beeing raised to the shawl (becoming an Aes Sedai) they both chose the blue Ajah.
Later on, Siuan had been elected/raised to the Amyrlin Seat.
So, yes, this story line stays 99% true to the books...
One last thing about lying... Moiraine did not lie, as others mentioned already...
Did you notice, that Moiraine, did not repeat the oath exactly... She did not swore to the "Amyrlin Seat"... She swore to Siuan Sanche...
That's how Aes Sedai are going to "lie" ;-)
Great point about the oath! I totally missed that.
Could someone please tell me the equivalent of this episode with the book and chapter? more or less...thanks
@@alexalinares4659 Much of this episode in not in the book and the parts that are have been changed.
@@andrewveatch1920 if I would want to start reading the books but starting with this point more or less, with which book/chapter would you recommend me to start with? (I imagine the books are way better but I don't want to start with the beginning)
“Pillow friends” 90’s for “gay”
Love watching your reaction videos - your reaction to the Moiraine/Siuan reveal was fantastic! Reiterating what others have said, Moiraine and Siuan were canonically in a relationship at one point during the series, and this was confirmed by the author. They actually ended things specifically because of their mission to find the Dragon Reborn - they could only trust each other, and decided that one of them had to be out in the world looking while the other should be in the Tower, trying to get in a position of power so she could help the searcher. And they didn’t want anyone to know that they were in cahoots, so they broke off their relationship for the cause.
It’s a heartbreaking story, and I LOVE that the show brought it to the forefront and amped up the tension on it by having them still trying to maintain their relationship over the 20 years of searching.
Also (not a spoiler, just speculation based on the show so far) we’ve mostly heard about what the Blues are from Liandrin, who seems pretty biased. The whole sacrificing your own happiness for the sake of a higher cause thing that Moiraine and Siuan have going on could also be part of being a Blue.
Just finished watching the episode and came straight to youtube to watch ur reactions. Absolutely love ur reaction and thoughts on this amazing show. 🔥
Thank you so much!
I absolutely love how observant you are, caught things I missed even on a 3rd watch. Love your stuff 🤙
25:11 her being the Amyrlin isn’t for show. Her being mad at Moiraine was for show. (Moiraine has never been the Amyrlin)
That song in the beginning had me jammin too. I spent a minute tryna track it down lmaooo
Bro yess lol
A bit on the cold open: Siuan is Tairen, and channeling is outlawed in Tear. So any girl found to channel is sent upriver to Tar Valon as soon as they can stuff her on the first boat they can find.
In the books they were lovers when they first came to the Tower and they made a conscious decision to have a public "break" so they wouldn't appear to be plotting
Moiraine and Siuan through me for a f**king loop. Not because it's two women together (for the idiots who think that) but because the way they acted in the throne room. They definitely didn't give any hints whats so ever that they are together. I guess I've always saw Moiraine as this serious, driven woman. To see her so in love and happy, especially with the person who is their leader, I just didn't expect that; but what a wonderful surprise it was. That banishment scene was so heartbreaking and I hope they do get their happy ending😊
P.S. Liandrin is such a messy b**ch...
I LOVE their relationship! The difference between the throne room and the bed was amazing
@@Matthewvhaynes It definitely is😊
"They got A CON-JOINC-TION!!" Only took them literally locking lips before that realization hit. Ha!
Show watcher only here. It sounds like they became lovers while they were both in the blue ajah. I think the reason why Suian ageees to exile M is bc she also know and agrees that M has to find the Dragon reborn to defeat the dark one. She said that her and M were present when the birth of the DR was prophesied by another Aes Sedai. Sounds like no one else knows about it
That's pretty spot on :)
They have something in the books for sure, it’s just not as out right. They call it “pillow mates??” And something similar does sort of happen
The fact that they’re close in the books is a secret too
Great vid! I got chills at that oath scene too!
YESS
10:00 "she lied" ... That's classic Aes Sedai. Every single thing she said was technically true. It's just not the truth you think you hear. "I have people watching for their arrival" = technically true. Eyes and ears at the city gates are still watching for the people she's told them to watch for. Some number of those, who actually saw and already reported it, aren't watching anymore, but the rest probably haven't been told they don't need to anymore, so "I have people watching for their arrival" is still technically true. And "But I have it on good authority that they're alive" is also technically true; what better authority than Moiraine herself?
Put those technically true statements together and you're given the impression that they haven't arrived in the city yet. That's how Aes Sedai speak around the Three Oaths. Among those familiar with Aes Sedai, they're famous for it. Even though they genuinely can not lie, they're masters of exploiting technicalities and word choice to lie right to your face, without ever once actually lying. That's why you'll sometimes see people demand an Aes Sedai to say something out plainly and directly. Otherwise, there's no telling if what you heard is really what you think you did.
Even more tricky, she said she has people watching for them. She probably still does. They're just watching for them to make sure they don't run off.
Aes Sedai would make great lawyers haha
Even when they say it plainly and directly it's often misleading. You have to ask them the same question 10 ways before you can have some picture that they are telling the truth. And you have to look for any little crack because they can drive a tanker truck through the smallest gap.
From what I understood in the books, they had been in a relationship prior, and already had this bittersweet goodbye when Moiraine took off to scour the world for clues to the identity of this child born on the slopes of Dragonmount
As someone who read the books and is absolutely loving the adaptation, your reactions are so much fun! It’s like getting to enjoy that time of speculation and hoping all over again. ❤️
The music piece that moved us so much when taking the oaths is called Al'Naito (The Flame) and the chorus lines we can hear there are "La'aldrelle kiseri ,
Al Tar Valon, cierto naito" translated by Joan Albright means "Glorious river daughter ,Tar valon's enduring flame" 🤍
The past three episodes have been spectacular! I'm now hooked on this series!
Loved this episode. It takes a new path from the books, but I’m thrilled asf for the Ways, Fal Dara and The Eye of the World! 😍
‘Conjointshun’ …word of the day…well done 🍻
😂😂😂😂
Recently found your reviews...I've never watch reviews before, but it's fun seeing your reactions. I had to go back and watch all episodes, then followed your link to your wife's and watch hers. They are great! I was wondering if y'all ever got to watch anything together, so I was happy to hear about Ep8. Looking forward to it.
I like how they showed White Tower politics this ep, and the warder bond last ep. Those things are easier to describe in books when you have endless pages lol so glad they were able to make it come across in the show.
Happy you and your wife are enjoying it and keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! Honestly we appreciate that, im glad you gave our videos a chance! 🙏🏿
Love your reactions, I love seeing new fans loving the story. Couple things:
Siuan + Moiraine = Cannon, it started as novices and no one knows if/when it ended officially, but Siuan stayed in the tower and eventually became Amyrlin and Moiraine left the tower to search.
Please ignore the haters. Most of the fandom are NOT the toxic wank stains I have seen in a lot of comments. This show absolutely encompasses the heart and soul of not only the story, but the characters. A lot of the toxic people are complaining that it is not following the book well… it is, they have just changed the timeline on a few things because they are trying to adapt the entire series as a whole, not a book at a time. The stuff from episode 5 & 6 is not in the forefront in the books, but that is because the first book is from only 3 POVs and adapting the book as is would have been terrible TV. All the changes make sense for the whole story and everyone we have been introduced to so far is important. The only Aes Sedai you meet in the first book is Moiraine, it would have been insane to keep that in the show when looking at the whole story. Anyway, sorry for the rant, these “bookcloaks” have been really annoying and I sincerely hope they don’t turn you off from the show or the books. Both are fabulous.
I’m reading the books, and I follow all of the major WoT reviewers, but I’ve got to say, your videos are my absolute favorite. I just love how genuinely invested you are in the story, and how keen you are on picking up all of those details and emotional beats of the show! And how invested you are in these characters. It makes me even more invested in the show after seeing your reactions and takes on it. Thank you for your work!! 🙏
Thank you so much! 😭 That means a lot, Im glad you can find some value in my reviews for this show! I bought the audiobooks so im ready to go! Haha
@@Matthewvhaynes oh amazing!! I can’t wait to hear your thoughts now that you’re reading the books!
Moraine and Suin were "pillow friends" while they were training to become Aes sedai. And formed the conspiracy to find the dragon reborn and protect and guide them in the future.
My man you legit said "conjoinction" and it's my new favorite word.
😭😂😂😂😂
I've started to love your reactions, probably one of my favorite reactors on the site, good job man!
A CONJOINCTION 😂 love your reactions
Moiraine and Siuan’s relationship is hinted at in the books. It’s a common thing in the White Tower for novices to become “pillow friends”. So they have been lovers since they both first came to the Tower.
They stopped being pillow friends when they were raised to sisters, as do most AS.
The Ways were made to connect Ogier Stedding by Male Channelers who were still sane during the Breaking of the World so that Ogier could travel between Steddings without suffering the Longing. That's why Loial is a bit of an expert in traveling the ways (or at least the lore behind it).
Okay, so Siuan and Moiraine were what was known as "pillow-friends" in the books, which is that Robert Jordan wrote that while women are training in the White Tower before they become Aes Sedai, they find sexual and emotional relief in each other. Moiraine and Siuan did carry on that relationship a bit longer after they both were raised to Aes Sedai. The show's decision to extend this into them becoming lovers is a natural extension, but is not canon in the books depending on how you view the "pillow-friend" relationships.
So, Siuan is the Amyrlin Seat, and she's strict with Moiraine on the surface because she has no choice, because she needs to do politics in front of the other Aes Sedai in public who have no idea that they are working together. Moiraine was never the Amyrlin Seat.
Did you notice the scene with the oath rod, where she should say she cannot come back unless the Amyrlin seat calls her back, but she says Suian Sanchen rather than the Amyrlin seat, so her oath is to Suain not to the the Amyrlin seat, that is my theory anyway, that the oath is to her and not the seat, so if someone else becomes the Amyrlin and tries to call moiraine back she doesn't have to respond, i am a non book reader but just something i noticed. As they keep saying Moirane is clever with her words.
Absolutely great pickup on the doorway items that both Moiraine and Siuan have in their rooms. Their significance will be revealed somewhere down the road.
Definitely! Nothing is without purpose
What’s happening son😂😂. I am hollering at your reaction. I need the laugh. Good review . I believe moraine would call it an entanglement .
Yeah I think everyone ended that episode yelling at Mat lol, great reaction keep em coming 👍🏻
I love watching your reactions! I've read the books, it's great to see the reactions to the show from people who haven't.
Thank you so much!
In the book Moiraine does not come back to white Tower so we don't really know for sure, yet we do know they had something going on when they were novices .. they referred to it as Pillow friends ... but when it comes to the plot about Dragon and them both working together secretly on it as well as their hidden friendship that is almost same as in the book! In the book, even one other Aes Sedai said to Moirane "Others may not know or may not remember ... but I do remember two of you were pillow friends as novices! "
Just FYI, the entire album called The First Turn is released on pretty much evert major streaming platforms as well on as on youtube on Amazon Prime's channel. The songs used in the show are pretty much snippets of the album mixed and modified in one way or another
the song that plays when Moiraine leaves Tar Valon is called “Reunited”, it’s in the second turn album
They were labeled as "pillow friends" as accepted in the tower - and they kiss once in the prequel New Spring.
Yeah, the show makes it more close to the surface and important.
From my opinion its a change that is only good. In the books they worked together but pretended to hate each other for politics reasons, and this just makes that more meaningful and emotionally present.
@@dartxni It makes Moiraine's sacrifice to find the DR even bigger
the actor who played matt Quit the show on episode 6! he was dealing with family problems and the set had to be shut down do to covid out breaks. Matt will return in season 2 by a new actor!
Another banger man. Another hang up with the oath is that if the aes sedai believes something is true she's not lying. Information distance and time distorting it is a big thing through out the series.
The wisdom jab was my favorite burn ever.
Loved it!
An example of not being able to break the oaths is used when the Amrylin asks Moiraine what she has been doing during her travels. She had obviously taken an Oath with The Amrylin a long time ago, so when the Amrylin asks her that direct question, the Amrylin knows she cannot answer it due to the Oath rod, you can see Moiraine struggle with the One Power before she says, “I cannot.”
Remember: the reds can't use the one power as a weapon either, so they can't kill Liandrin's North Harbor contact. Consider other options.
They can kill him, but not with the power
Killing him isn’t the threat. The threat I assumed to be that Liandrin is banging the guy and Moiraine is threatening to tell the other Red sisters about him thus exposing that Liandrin doesn’t hate all men which is kind of the defining trait in the Red Ajah which would lower her standing among them.
Wanting to comment without spoiling, but I see this as a misdirect. Nicely done.
@@isamumizuta9226 i think the threat is the other red sisters Gentling him... that's my theory anyway lol
@@ijustwanttolikecomments4677 gentling is cutting a guy off from being able to use the one power. If there was a male channeler known, they would already be all over it. Moiraine would have already had it handled instead of keeping it a secret.
Book Mat is often amusingly preoccupied with finding a way to bail when his skin might be on the line, so though this exact scene was not in the book, it was perfectly in character for him and I loved it.
I love your work, man. Another great video 🔥
This ep had me teary eyed.
They wouldn't torture logain, but since he's gentle he's a husk of his former self and now wants to die, like what happened to Thom's newfew owen. Yes Morraine x Suian is a thing in the book but Siuan is still very much the Amyrlin Seat Morraine is not the one pulling strings if that's what you think.
OMFG LOL I only caught this now. They moved The Queens Blessing from Caemlyn to Tar Valon and renamed it The Lights Blessing. So I assume that innkeeper was Basil Gill?
I love your reaction to Moiraine and Suian 😂🥰
Haha They were so cute 😭 I loved it. I was shocked! Haha but I love them
Love the backstory the show gives us.
I loved those moments where Nynaeve and Egwene got taken down a notch lol. Nynaeve when Moiraine told her she almost killed Mat for her pride, and Egwene when she thought the Amyrlin was ranking about her as the most powerful channeler but it was Nynaeve. 🤣🤣 Tbh, Nynaeve and Egwene have always been 2 of my favorite characters but I do like them getting checked when they need it. Ego is too easy to get out of hand when you're a powerful channeler.🤣🤣
You totally nailed Egwene-- good job!
A general explanation about Moiraine and Siuan's relationship. Women generally spend 10-15 years studying to become Aes Sedai, beginning age 15-16. It is EXTREMELY stressful, and in addition they are cut off from the outside world and men during that time. Due to these circumstances, it is not unusual for Novices and Accepted to turn to each other and become "pillow friends" both for support and comfort as well as sexual desire. Moiraine and Siuan were two such novices, who were also best friends. Most Aes Sedai walk away from pillow friend relationships once they are raised to AS (unless they are actually gay). M&S discontinued theirs, but remained best friends. Also, listen to their private conversation, when Siuan said they both heard Gitara's foretelling about the Dragon being reborn; they were the only ones. That is why they alone share the secret that Moiraine has been searching for the DR for 20 years. (They're both in the early 40's.) Hope this clears up a little confusion. 😊
Truth is a very subjective thing and Aes Sedai can make the truth dance
In case you wonder Mat was supposed to walk in with them but filming was interrupted due to covid, 3 times apparently ... Because the filming of season one took almost 3 years and the contract is binding actors for 2 years per season... the rumor is Barney who plays Mat decided not to come back to finish the season ... The final image of Mat and them looking at Mat through the Waygate is some old footage of Mat re-used just to save production ... till they decide what to do with the plot in order to make it work as well as replace the Actor ... also interesting fact Waygates are Jordan's homage to Tolkien's Mines of Moria, in the book, waygate door looks like the one in Lord of the rings and there is a secret password/ key to enter it ... but they change it for Tv show
Oh wow! Thanks for the info!
It was in the books (prequel) but its extended in expanded here. And yeah, that was a very good descision and change, it also helps with cutting minor plotlines from further books and just condensing them here :)
Given the timeline of the books, Moraine and Siuan are maybe forty. But everyone has been ages up for the show, because in the books, the kids are all between 16 and 18, Nynaeve also a few years older than them.
Moraine and Siuan were both there as Accepted (the second level between Novice and full Aes Sedai) in the the Amyrlin's study 20 years before 18 in the books), attending the Amyrlin, when Gitana Moroso had the vision of the Dragon's birth. The vision said that he had just been born. That's how they know how old he/she should be. The Amyrlin set them the task of finding the child and swore them to secrecy. That's why Moraine couldn't say what she had been doing. She literally couldn't say it.
"Is she like a old old lady or something". lol that mage me laugh. Well some people say that Aes Sedai have ageless beauty.
She never said "when" exactly she'd let her know AND she said the term "friends" which can mean any number of people not specifically anyone of those people. Also she said she'd bring them to her, but since Nyneave found some of them on her own, she broke the stipulations because she kept it from Moiraine.
This episode was kind of new material for book readers, too.
Nearly all of it is drawn from the books but much of it we never got to see or it happened at different times/places. It was a very good episode(IMO) but it obviously took some adjusting. Seeing your reactions, and perspective, is really helpful with that. So thanks for being awesome and glad you're enjoying the show.
PS The Ways are crazy and some next-level Fantasy stuff. Get hype.
Aes Sedai (in the books) can live for about 300 years. Moiraine isn’t that old, she is probably in her early 40’s. Moiraine and Siuan were best friends when they were training in The White Tower. But Siuan became the Amyrlin Seat, and they can’t have best friends anymore. Not publicly, and a relationship would definitely show favoritism. I don’t know if you caught it in the show, but they said they were the only two who heard the prophecy by Gitara. They are the only two who know that the Dragon was reborn 20 years ago. The relationship is more upfront in the show, but they were “pillow friends” when they were training, which means they were hooking up. It’s pretty common, but the relationships do not usually last. I think it’s super dope to confirm what was never explicitly shown.
"Turn notifications on mute" lmao. Great take dude. They were intimate in the books but never explicitly together, a hell of a lot of people shipped them before anything happened on screen put it that way. And they were described as 'pillowfriends', a term in the books that is a bit of a victim of its age but essentially a none direct way of saying banging
And Moiraine/Siuan is best love/trust relationship!
Moraine got 2x tongue lashing this episode
I think the same thing when I hear a song I like in the show lol there was one song in episode 2 right after they run into the white cloaks and right before they sing about Manetheran, where they are just riding on horseback across the land and this song plays and it’s SOO GOOD but I can’t find it anywhere, it’s not in either volumes of the soundtrack and it’s driving me nuts because I love it so much but can’t find it! If anyone knows the one I’m talking about please let me know!
Re: Moiraine and Siuan- minor change (were implied lovers, implied it’s not continuing by time the books start, but they are friends). I’m more than okay with it - their romantic arcs are lackluster in the books so this makes things more interesting.
Realistically, they could have almost any person fall in love with any other person in the show, and it would probably be done better than RJ lol. Love this series to death, and I will always love it, the wheel and snake was my first tattoo, but RJ couldn't write romance haha.
@@kylecook7187 overall agree (with a couple exceptions)- I do like the platonic relationships with hints at romance: avoiding spoilers, the queen 🦁 and her “maiden” are done well, for instance
@@aflameinthevoid8047 they 💯 need to be shipped in the show
Funny thing is when Moiraine smiled and just before you said that was the first time we've seen her that natural, I suddenly thought of a scene in book two where (no plot spoilers) Perrin walks in on her brushing her hair, and is basically dumbstruck for...well kinda the same reason. She suddenly seems like a human woman and not this powerful and untrustworthy Aes Sedai. Its a really nice awkward moment :D
I'd also note Siuan is a little harsher to Logain than is implied in the books (we don't see the actual scene). Men are...effectively cared for / put on suicide watch as a form of kindness, though it rarely works very well. Channellers react to losing the ability to touch the pwoer much the same way Warders get after their Aes Sedai dies (minus the berserker rage stage).
siuan and moiraine are "pillow friends" on book zero, the prequel called new spring. on the main series, they are bffs but not really dating.
Logain is a character I really loved in the books. It hurts to see them treat him that way, even though in many ways he deserves it.
Absolutely love yours and your wife's reaction videos! It'll be great to see you watch together too.
You'll see our joint reaction to episode 8!
"moraine is she the leader?" Ye, in the sheets. I don't remember it happening on the page but pillow friends is a thing in the books, so it makes sense for it to be that way.
New Spring hints more heavily at their relationship. Personally this is the only change so far that I can fully get behind and support. The rest were either tolerable or annoying
11:20 "Is she like an old, old lady?" Actually, both she and Siuan are pretty young by Aes Sedai standards (Early 40s for both of them), while using the Power grants Aes Sedai a longer lifespan than normal people.
I think you've already seen the "pillow friends" comment threads, but I suspect this was changed entirely for the series was to make it more apparent. The Pillow Friends concept in the books kinda implied that sexuality is something that you can "phase off" once you're older. I actually like this adaptation.
I know I'm late to the party and someone's probably already commented about it.
Moraine didn't tell Egwene about the others because she knew that she would want to see them and wouldn't listen if she told them to stay put for their own safety. She is trying to hide their presence from others who don't need to know. Telling them that she will know when they arrive, and that she has it on good authority they are alive is the best way to keep these bullheaded kids in one place. It turns out that Linandrin found out about them, but Moraine was trying to keep her (and as many as possible) unaware.
Puts a whole new meaning to 'bloody Mat Cauthon'
I love Moiraine and Siuan. Couple is the best ❤️❤️❤️
As far as the books go.
Siuan and Moiraine were lovers in their teens and early twenties. After they were raised as full Aes Sedai they stopped sleeping together but remained very close as friends. Moiraine spends the next 20 years searching for the Dragon Reborn and Siuan arose within the Aes Sedai rank and became Amyrlin.
The only change from the books to the show regarding their relationship is that they are still romantically involved in their adulthood.
"Is she like an old lady or something?"
I see someone shares my Mellisandre PTSD...
HAHAHA YES
Rewatch what she says, she never lies, she crafts the words just right. I heard this was where Barney ends as Mat, and the recast for season 2 occurs, but that could be untrue
Love Love Love this Episode. Dont care its not like books. Its WoT told different.
Lots of Aes Sedai double talk here.
Don't mess with Moiraine. She's got the receipts.