So in the prequel book, they briefly mention that Moraine and Siuan were in a relationship when they were novices. The show is just making it that they remained in one
And still very much in a relationship as accepted, and at least for a while still after they are both raised to full Aes Sedai. :) In other words far more than a brief mention, but at times it's written in a fairly subtle way. ^^
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. If I remember correctly the books implied a lot of accepted have relationships with eachother because they basically are the only ones that get what they're going through.
Something to note, Robert Jordan had to mask homosexual relationships as other words "Pillowfriends" - Due to the 90s and publishers being very anti-gay. Rafe clearly decided to just make it official.
Adam killed me when he said "Swan Sanchez" XD "Pillow friends" was totally in the book, but never really delved into Best lines of the episode was from Moraine imo "On your knees" and "Amyrlin Seat waits for one woman...and you're not her" =)
Actually it was delved into in later books when certain Aes Sedai are tasked with trying to "re-establish" their pillow friend relationship to gain inside information. You are correct that it didn't cover Moiraine and Siuan's relationship in-depth outside of New Spring. But it's not a leap or a change. They just brought something more to the forefront in the character's relationship that was always there in the books.
"As was common with a good many friendships in the cloistered society of novices, Siaun and Moiraine turned to one another more and more for comfort, and they eventually became pillow friends continuing up to the time they were raised Aes Sedai and to some extent for a time thereafter. Neither was lesbian; they were simply young women with normal libidos in a situation where they were cut off from the opposite sex."
There is implicit same-sex relations mentioned in the books under the name “pillow friends” - RJ confirmed that this were indeed what people thought they were, and that it was normal for young novice and accepted (trainee Aes Sedai) to “experiment” during those years, and that some of those relationships lasted until later. Moiraine and Suian were “pillow-friends” in their youths in the books and this simply makes their relationship explicit rather than implicit, and makes their secret partnership to find the Dragon (which was in the books) a continuation of their romantic involvement as well. So, while this *is* expanding on the books, it’s by a step, not a leap.
It's a stupid unnecessary series ruining leap. In the books you don't even _meet_ her until book 2. Look at all the _amazing_ drama they cut out and re-ordered due to "time constraints" whiel they added just this woke garbage to pander, changing almost every character from the books. There's a reason GOT was so popular, and there's a reason it turned to crap when they ran out of source material.
@@Saphthings If you can't see the dif between making a small change like that after X seasons of being faithful to the book, to _completely_ rewriting characters, the story, and 100% flipping personalities for various characters just to tell a woke agenda you're lost mate.
Mat being left behind wasn't just random. The actor, Barney Harris, abruptly left the production in the middle of filming episode 6, and he has been re-cast by Donal Finn for season 2. The reason for Barney leaving is most likely personal, either health or family related, based on what the production have said about it. They had to come up for a reason that Mat is absent from the final two episodes, which he likely will be, so they changed this scene. I hope this helps. It's very unfortunate, I loved Barney in the role, but I really hope he's doing well.
Do you have positive confirmation that Barney left at that specific time and the scene was changed for that reason? I'm sure I've been following the production just as closely as you have. And while I think that is very probably the case, I'm still kinda cliffhangered on whether the change was (less likely) storyboarded this way on purpose and we get a little more Mat before the season is up, or (more likely) Mat is done for season 1 until we can pick up next year. I'd give it like a 20/80 dice roll.
@@thedudesrug6930 I know it's confirmed that Barney left. And we have Donal in season 2. But the *specific time* that Barney left and that they had to change their plans to accommodate it in season 1? Please cite that information for me if you can, thanks. Like Moiraine says, "Exact verbiage. Words are important. And how we use them is important." I'm asking about proof of exact supporting details in the Barney story.
@@FlagrantVagrant I've been reading quite a few people talking about how they apparently took a covid break between episode 6 and the final 2 episodes...and that he left the production during that break. If he really IS missing from the final 2 episodes, I imagine we'll see what Mat did during this period of the story at the very start of season 2....via flashback probably.
this is the only book reader reaction to this show that i enjoy. Everyone else picks it apart for the changes, you seem to accept them (like me). I'm glad it's a few years since i read the books so i can enjoy the show for what it is instead of comparing every little thing to the books.
I agree that I’m enjoying the acceptance. I’m a long-time bookreader and am re-reading again during the show. I love how they pull things from the books into the show to give to us, while making it feel exciting to experience again in tv form. It’s the best feeling to kinda re-experience the first time I read the books. Loving the show as well.
Not to plug my own content, but I'm a book reader, my podcast focuses on literary analysis of the books, and I'm loving the show. I have criticisms, but they're minor, and I think the changes are brilliant in the way they move the narrative along. That said, I'm not nearly as fun as these two 😉
Agreed, I'm in the same boat and actually stopped a re read once the show started filming so I didn't get bogged down in the weeds so to speak. The show isn't perfect but those fans complaining that it's not a 1-2-1 adaptation are slightly driving me insane (ignoring entierly the ones mad that black people exist).
I don't know why, but people are always gonna hate something then years later, they'll change and say that it was the best thing ever (Star Wars Prequels), Been audio booking the wheel of time, its crazy long but they are amazing. I'm not saying people can't have an opinion, but maybe for those who didn't like it because it's not the same as the books, It is called an Adaptation, its a show that has to work during covid and on a budget, adaptations are gonna change through different medias to fit a story and make it enjoyable to everyone while keeping the original plot. Considering how it's getting about 8 seasons, means Amazon loves what the writer's and the show's creator are going with it, and maybe it will have more episodes as the seasons go on or the episodes get longer, either way, let's just hold our breath, sometimes shows that have a weaker 1st season compared it's other, usually turn out greater because more time and recourses were devoted to it. (Game of Thrones, before season 8, which was the show's creator's fault for being too greedy (At the time Disney offered them a job to make a Star Wars show or trilogy because of how good GOT was, so the creator's wanting to hop on as soon as possible, rushed the last season, but because of how poorly that went, Disney backed out of the offer))
When i was watching the episode and saw the thing spray painted on their burned down house, out loud, I went 'THE COMMA STRIKES AGAIN' and immediently started looking forward to Jay mentioning it
Of all the reactions to the Wheel of Time I watch each week, I like yours the best... I think it is because the amazing energy and the chemistry between the two, and also the fact that one has read it and the other one hasn't, which makes their interactions really interesting to watch... Thanks guys, keep doing great...
It's odd that book readers continually say that they didn't have a romantic relationship, but they were "pillow friends" which RJ describes as something like mussing up the sheets, and in New Spring, they kiss, then fade to black (sex implied).
Moiraine and Siuan's relationship actually is in the books, but it's one of those 'blink and you miss it' things. RJ refers to them as having been 'pillow friends' in their youth.
They filmed episodes 7 and 8 last summer after Covid shutdown and the actor playing Mat for whatever reason left the show then. So they reworked this ending and Mat has been recast for Season 2.
@@HQofrandom If you have not read the books many times over the years and waited years for this show to come out I could see how it would be good. The actors are good and the way they worked the magic is phenomenal. I can't enjoy it with the drastic changes to the story and character build up they have skipped so much. at this rate the series is going to be over in 30 episodes.
@@HQofrandom I'm giving it one more chance next week any more deviations to character structure or story structure and I'm done. I'm like 98% sure next week will be my last episode at this point.
I was going to perform my civic duty and mention that Siuan and Moiraine's romance is expanded in scope here, but ultimately canonical. And that it is the portal stones, rather than the Ways, that offer glimpses of other realities (the Ways like to kill you via other methods). But I see that others have already completed this task. Cool. Good reaction as always!
No one seems to have noticed how purposely they designed Siuans costume when she is on the throne. From her "crown" hair jewelry, to the ruffles and flow of her dress, she is very purposely dressed to resemble a lion fish, harkening back to her being a fisher girl, and dangerous.
I've heard that Rafe wanted 10 episodes a season, but Amazon would only allow 8 because they're so expensive. As the show is duelling with Hawkeye for the number one spot, let's all hope that Amazon will be willing to spend the extra money and give us those extra 2 episodes after the second season.
maybe they should have cut some of the irrelevant time they spent on non-essential characters and spend it on the main characters, who have hardly any development.
Lol the kiss...it is in the books, but in New Spring (prequel book) when Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends". They were lovers early in their training to be Aes Sedai and the show just continued that relationship.
ADAM, I’m 100% with you about MATT and the DAGGER...also about them simplifying the story...I’m really enjoying this series more than the books...and JAY, your right, the costumes are 🔥🔥🔥!!!
Not enough has been said about Leanne by any reactors yet, so I’m just gonna say it… what superb casting and the acting is perfect! One of my favorite characters, and I love how she’s really leaning into that super stern, proper Aes Sedai mold right now. Really hoping they keep her part going in the series, because I love her story.
Yeah I love Leane in the books, and she's cast by the awesome Jennifer Cheon Garcia. She is shooting for season2 so I really hope we get lots of Leane in the episodes to come!
16:25 It was mentioned that accepted would some time become "Pillow friends" but this is a whole new level. 18:00 "I do not have time for your BS" mic drop moment. 19:56 you can see the matching Item on the wall. At a guess, linked to their own little pocket dimension, I personally think this is where Barney left, and this was the sort term solution, and we will come back to the recast. Sadly gonna make a rough transition.
@@mbpoblet unless their bodies were left in their rooms. Lan was outside the room keeping watch after all... I thought the same thing about it being the dream world
@@DeadsySedai That is not correct. OP had it correct. This is a whole new level. "Pillow friends" equates to youthful dalliances and experimentation. This is a complex committed adult relationship that was not portrayed in the books.
The things you are thinking of is the portal stones with the runes that when used for travelling show alternate realities. The Ways are different and look like they are going to follow the book version of being dark and very dangerous to get through. And hopefully they show what is supposed to be in the Ways because that has huge implications for a certain recurring character.
@@JediKnight20043 True, didn't think of that. Unless they say Moiraine still has the knife with her. Which, while not consistent with the books, would still keep most of the plot line intact. Except for Mat. But who knows where they are taking that. Then again they might just alter "that" character's origin and make it less involved than it was in the books. Being the "Voltron of Evil" is good for the books but not really necessary for the show.
@@chrisgroth9028 @JediKnight20043 There are many ways they can rework that storyline. Perhaps Mat reconnects with it while the rest of the part is away and the theft still occurs and they have to return and deal with it. I think we'll have to wait and see. We know said person was spotted in Tar Valon when they first entered in Episode 5. It's sad that Barney Harris left the show during the Covid shutdown which I believe resulted in them having to spin the end of Episode 6 this way and leave him behind. At least we know they have recast Donal Finn for Mat who appears to be a great actor as well for Season 2. As a long time book reader I've been enjoying being able to speculate and theorize again. We know roughly where things are going but they are unfolding the pattern with new warps and wefts so I'm still surprised at some turns.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but I believe this episode was at or near the time Barney Harris had to stop filming and withdraw from the show (for undisclosed reasons to the public) so I believe this change with Mat not coming along was one they had to make not cause they wanted to but because they had to.
I like the fact that the show is changing things up a bit, keeps the readers on our toes too. Some book readers are going to be livid about the fact that they changed anything, some are going to be worried about what the changes mean for their favorite character, but I think most of us are in for this ride even if It's not the road we normally take.
This episode was the first one where a change made me nervous (specifically how they talk about the eye of the world). However they've earned my trust with their previous adaptation decisions so I'm going to wait and see how they resolve it.
I'm re-watching these reactions and there are alot more comments than when I first watched them a year ago so I completely missed this. I've been a book fan since the 3rd book came out after seeing my mom read them. I have to say that I am soooo here for the ride!! I love that they gave Logains back story in the show. Can't wait til season 2!!
LOVE these reactions! I see that other people have mentioned that Siuan and Moiraine did have a relationship (which was handled in a very subtle way for the most part, so I understand missing it) but I'd also like to add/correct one thing: At 27:10, Adam mentions that you can see other realities in the Ways, but iirc it wasn't the Ways that let you do this but the PORTAL STONES, which are a different thing. The Ways have OTHER 'fun' features, but the Portal Stones are a distinct method of traveling that predate and enabled the building of the Ways, and have the ability to drop you into/show you other realities. Great job, guys, and I love how fast you get these out!
So to provide context...Barney, the actor that played Mat, stepped away from the show during season 1. 1-6 were apparently done before the COVID crisis and 7-8 were done after. So something happened during that time that caused him to leave the show. No speculation for why it happened, but it did happen (worse case scenario for a show). It was a bit of a rough scene (him staying behind at the ways portal), but it was the best they could do, given what happened. It even looks like they used B footage of Mat looking around to make it seem plausible he was staying behind. And again...Moiraine and Siuan WAS IN THE BOOKS. It was in the prequel book. They were lovers early in their career.
You'll never out spy the the bluest of all the blues, though I do think this man Liandrin is meeting will turn out to be more important than Moiraine realizes.
I watch WOT on Thursday and then wait anxiously to watch these guys react. Mostly for Adam’s shrugs. He’s gonna have sick traps at the end of this series.
I became a subscriber during your Mando reactions (still love to rewatch them.). While I enjoy your other reactions too, I predict your Wheel of Time series reactions are going to end up being ‘right up there’ among your best because of your ‘one knows the books, one doesn’t’ vibe plus your always-fun chemistry. Keep up the great work - onward to 100K subscribers!
The actor that played Mat dropped out from the productions. So they had to update the end of the season. (He actually deleted all his social media… hope he’s ok)
I have thoroughly enjoyed the adaptation. They turned the first book into something that was watchable, instead of just Monologue and walking for a book.
@@davidmernick7360 And they were explicitly NOT during the actual book time. and PS she's not even in the first book....such a stupid pointless absurd addition at the cost of the actual plot
Siuan and Moiraine were intimate as novices and accepted. Oh i think this is the episode where the actor playing mat left, which hit the episode a fair bit. Enjoyed the reaction as always!
I think the reason that Mat didn't follow in the end was because the actor left the series (for unknown reasons) during one of the covid related hiatus moments. They decided to rewrite the last few episodes instead of recasting the role at once. I've heard the new actor is doing a great job for the filming of season 2 that's shooting now.
Moiraine and Siuan are heavily implied, but never followed through to the end in the books. I think this is when Barney Harris bailed on the show to be honest so that's why Mat got left behind or it's because of the dagger or both lol.
Yeah that cleansing scene of Mat made me gag too. Edit: "Criss cross applesauce?" You're killing me smalls! Of the characters that deserves some retribution: Valda and Liandrin. In the books, they had very interesting fates. I hope the show keeps those. Also want to point out the shape of the weave Moiraine uses to open the waygate. It's shaped like a trefoil leaf, which is what was originally used to open them in books. And finally, I'm sorry, I have to correct you about the ways. They are just pathways and bridges. There's no setting alternate realities. That's the portal stones.
I'm not fully certain, but I think we may have seen one of those already as well - there was that pillar that all the sets of characters passed approaching Tar Valon that had a bunch of odd markings carved into it.
Amazing. I noticed neither the trefoil leaf pattern nor the (possible) portal stone. And I'm normally pretty good at that. So great catches, and thanks!
I know others have clarified already but haven't seen anyone mention why the Siuan Moiraine change is a very welcome one. Rober Jordan presents "pillow friends" as a thing novices/accepted become but eventually grow out of, like being gay/bi/pan is immature. So when you do away with that poor idea, it just makes sense for Moiraine and Siuan to still be a thing. A lot more sense than who Moiraine gets with in the books (though I did like Siuan's romance).
Boats sinking off the coast mmm might be important shrugs maabbyy I think their fast tracking Mats storyline because it douse take forever so we should give him a big red hand for not jumping into the ways
the actor who plays mat left the show so they had to rework a few episodes where they removed him and if im not mistaken he will be recasted for season 2
Morraine is secretive maybe because she knows about the Black Ajahs who serves the Dark one and they're everywhere and maybe if they knew what her mission is they would thwart Morraines plan.
No they didn't..it was in the prequel. You didn't even mean her until book 2. but amazon just _had_ to replace the actual story in the book with woke agenda instead of just following the books. This is exactly why this show is going to tank. I've never even imagined they could re-write so much of the first book....it's f'ing amazing. You can barely call this wheel of time. Matt isn't matt, perrin isn't perrin...oh god...such a trash show
@sterger7 I been reading the books since the 90s dear, I'm sorry the show is challenging your deeply held beliefs but they've been fairly progressive the whole time. It's always been alluded to in the series, and no series is going to a 1 to 1 replica of a book series, especially a 14 book massive series that most of the actual readers agree could have been trimmed down a few books. Welcome to the real world, I'm sorry it's so jarring. This old lady who's probably read the these books more times than most have read total in their lives is enjoying the crap out of the show. Go watch something else, and stop trying to ruin other people's fun. Have a blessed day.
@@fiction- Your stupidity is truly inspirational. I'm sure in your tiny liberal mind one must have "deeply held beliefs" to think changing a story to make a political agenda show is just stupid. PS I wonder if you'll still have your "deeply held stupidity" as the show gets cancelled after season 2. I'm sure you'll write it off as bad source material right?
@sterger7 I'm very sorry that I hurt your feelings hon. I was just trying to be honest with you. You might understand when you get older. But if this show is stressing you out this much you might need to just avoid it entirely. Take a breath and go enjoy something else. It'll get better!
@@fiction- It's ok child. Literally everyone knew you wouldn't understand anything as nuanced as "no one likes this crap, follow the book story" run along now child
Yes, it is in the books, and quite explicitly. In the regular Canaan they are referred to as “Pillow Friends“. In the prequel it is laid out much clearer. There’s also a scene where Verin blurted it out near the end of I believe book 11.
For Adam, pillow friends is kinda what their relationship meant not just best friends. For both of you Mat's actor left during production and I heard he was edited in that seen as not entering the ways
'Wait, what now?" 'Was this not in the book?" "...no. no this was not in the book" Actually, sort of. Remember that when they were novices they were referred to as 'pillow friends' ? I think the show is being blunt where the books were subtle. "...THAT'S DIFERENT" Yea from what I hear, the actor that played Matt seemed to have bailed on the show(no judgement. I don't know why . He might be going through a difficult moment in his life). They didn't have him for the last 2 episodes. They are changing actor for the next season.
I truly enjoy your reviews of this series! I have never read the books so I am coming into this brand new. Your review of it does not make me feel bad for not reading the books! I just enjoy it you guys are great and thank you for sharing just your great energy online I truly appreciate it, sorry for fanning out a little bit lol!
Watching this video was so eerie. I’m Justin, that’s my name!! It felt like you were talking directly to ME 😂😂. But don’t worry, I’ve been subscribed for like……five-ish years now.
recent subscriber knighted in. really enjoying all of this from a long time fellow Wheel of Time fan. The difference in you guys reactions is very entertaining.
Loosing Barney Harris for the show is so sad, he was an amazing Matt. But I think they can easily patch up the Matt left behind problem in season 2, they could just say Moiraine didn't manage to heal him completely so he was still connected to the dagger, and "someone" steal the dagger in Tar Valon before going to Faldara for other things, with Matt following that someone and the dagger, and there Matt is back in the place he is needed.
Yes their relationship is "in the book". But the book tries its best to not really do lgbt relationships super obvious. They call them "pillow friends". Moraine and Siuan were in a relationship when they were novices, and it's implied maybe more. The show just really went, "Yes, and we're not hiding it, and its very shown" instead of the subtext.
No they were not. They were pillow friends while novices and accepted, that was the extent. The official WOT companion confirms they were not lesbians, it is what it is in the show, but lets not rewrite the books.
@@gator7082 Yeah, sure, just "pillow friends" that kiss and have sex that's it xD Just normal sexual relationships between women that's not queer somehow. *dies from sarcasm* And actually no. Writer confirmed it was a sexual relationship. His exact quote: “Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce.” Your reply is the usual birasure and gay aversion with "it was just a phase".
@@gator7082 Here's some more quotes from the writer: "“Between one-third and one-half of all Aes Sedai (possibly somewhat more) are either gay or (mainly) bisexual to one degree or another". Even Morraine herself said, "How close she and Siuan had been was no one’s business but theirs… There were things one talked about, and things one did not!” So yeah, they were gay or bi lovers. It's just subtext to shown. What showed in the book from the era of "dont ask dont tell" vs todays progressive views. : )
@@Saphthings I don't have a gay aversion, I just have an aversion to you. Nice made up words though, you learn them at college when you got your B.S. degree? Were they lesbians when they went on to marry men? Siuan literally died with her husband in the last battle. Sounds pretty gay to me. Maybe you can point out chapter and verse where Morrain and Siuan fu**ed in the dream world. I'll wait....Who is rewriting what? You know there is a difference between two college girls having a bit of a tryst and what was portrayed in the show. However I understand nuance is lost amongst most Americans these days.
@16:21 yes it was in the book... it is said (several times if I remember correctly, but I'm not) that while they were training to become Aes Sedai, Moiraine and Siuan (Sanche, not Sanchez btw) were "pillow friends". What do you think it meant ? Also, in a big ass tower as this one, full of only women (and some champions and champions in training, granted), there is probably a lot of "pillow friends". Also @27:12 you're mistaking the Ways introduced in book 1 and the Portal Stones introduced in book 2.
Siuan and Moiraine were pillow friends. And you mess up the difference between the ways and portalstones/worlds. They changed the entry to the ways. Mat will be played by a different actor in season 2, so this may be the last time we see Barney Harris play Mat. And they had to stop filming on this episode twice due to Covid. This episodes shows Moiraines commitment to her mission
The 2 key differences - Actor for Mat unexpectedly left the show mid production, so change forced on them. In books Siuan and Morraine had "pillow talk" it's how author implied they were lovers in a fantasy book at the time of writing - unlike these days people are cool with more overt about such relationships
Robert Jordan used sex scenes very sparingly in the books. Siuan and Moiraine were pillow friends as novices or as accepted, but he didn't say whether or not they stayed pillow friends a couple of hundred years later. The reason I think their sex scene was added is because Rafe Judkins, the showrunner, wanted to raise LGBT awareness. He added the sex scene and heavily implied that warders with the same Aes Sedai mistress were also gay with each other -- which definitely wasn't in the books.
moiraine and siuane relatuinshuo is in books just never highlighted like this. when training they were "pillow friends" up until shortly after they were raised to Aes Sedai. and in the wheel of time companion book it states that being "pillow friends" was sexual in nature.
ADAM, I finally finished reading the final novel! So good , blood and bloody ashes .... I want to read all 15 books straight through now haha. I haven't read some of the early books since I was a teenager. Anyhow onto my thoughts on this episode : The prequel novel called NewSpring touched on Moraine and Siuan relationship. Also I'm pretty sure that the picture on the wall that they use to see each other is a form of 'angreal (ter'angreal? s'angreal? Items w certain uses made by and powered from aes sedai or women in general who can channel) ... my first thought was this is the dream world...not a "gateway" The waygate and gateways are two different things by the way
@@paulcurlin2789 Barney left the production. He wasn't fired or anything, the production say that he was amazing to work with and they hope he's okay, which indicates that it's either health or family related.
Yeah a lot of New Spring info this episode. Exaggerating/extending the Mo/Su pillow friends reveal and, if u were paying attention, Su mentioned the sister born with white eyes that Mo told the group about earlier in the season that "saw" the Dragon reborn.That they are the only 2 that knew it and everything they have done since has been to find the DR and prepare the Tower for the Last Battle.
Hey Adam by the way Moraine and Siuan totally bang in the books. Let's just say "pillow friends" aren't just friends who talk at night😂😂 Also, Mat staying behind was not part of the original script. Covid hit right after they finished filming this episode. Unfortunately, Barney Harris who's been playing Mat, left the show for personal reasons and never returned to filming when production resumed. This is most likely the last we'll see of Mat until the new actor in Season 2.
@@pReviewd which part haha? Moiraine and Siuan are confirmed by Jordan to have had a sexual relationship when they were novices and Accepted which largely stopped when they were raised to the shawl. The show is just continuing that thread. In New Spring there's a section along the lines of "Moiraine could have kissed Siuan right then. And so she did." But yeah, Barney Harris has left the show😭 No official word on why, but there's been silence from him and the show on the reasons.
@@pReviewd Adam, I highly recommend the channel The Dusty Wheel for news about the show. Matt, the host, also does the official "Inside the Wheel of Time" show on Amazon Prime's UA-cam channel! Good for news between episodes and seasons! 😃
Hey Adam and all fellow book readers, did you notice Moiraine's weave to activate the ways taking the shape of a leaf? Do I remember correctly when I say that in the books they used a leaf shaped switch to activate the ways? If so, this would be a nice adaptation.
@@Soshiworld0805 Yeah, I‘m not sure why exactly they did that particular change, especially because it kind of goes against the original purpose of the ways, but i can appreciate the way they did the change.
@@durchhalter I know that they filmed the first 5 episodes before the covid...so maybe that affected certain things...or maybe wanted to show more channeling earlier in the show... 'cause I heard that Loial would've looked much closer to his book counterpart but they couldn't and had to go practical for it right now. The change isn't too bad just I love the Ogier culture so much
@@durchhalter I'm hoping that she just used the power to do it faster, and all that's necessary is to make the trifoil leaf at the ways to use them. It would make sense AND tie into another setting in the books out of space and time
I've been waiting for 2 episodes now for you guys to comment on the actor doing Logain... But I guess you didn't clicked on him... "casa de papel"? "el professor"? 😉👌🏾 What an actor... Great reaction as usual, I enjoy how the outside angle from one not reading the books and knowing nothing about this plays on the book reader, lore knowing opposite 👏🏾😜 entertaining indeed
Yeah, losing Barney Harris as Mat like this was truly devastating when it leaked some months before the show went into the promotion phase, leading into the premiere. And it still is, now that we've seen him bring the character to life on the screen. We don't know the reason why it happened but we do know it certainly had nothing to do with his performance. What we do know is that blocks 1-3 (episodes 1-6) were shot before the pandemic shut everything down, and that when it became time to shoot block 4 (episodes 7-8) Barney Harris didn't return. In the book the whole Emond's Field 5 (I guess Two Rivers' 5 in the show) came along to the Eye of the World, but due to Barney Harris not returning they had to make this change which I assume required a reshooting of the final sequences, with certain "stock" footage of Mat from the original shooting edited in to show him staying behind. It's really sad as Barney Harris as Mat Cauthon was one of the castings the fandom seemed to be the most excited about overall, and I really loved him in the role. We don't know the details but I'm assuming it's either private reasons of his, possibly related to health or family, or the production not letting him return for some reason. I hope it's not something like a disagreement over a vaccine mandate that ended up having one of the most beloved characters by far recast like this. We might never know, honestly. Here's to hoping Dónal Finn does a really good job in season 2 and onwards. Just looking at photos of him I'm even inclined to say that he might look even more like the mischievous scoundrel with a heart of gold I imagined when I first read the books in the 90s, but having one of the few biggest main characters recast like this is truly unfortunate no matter how you spin it. [This doesn't really spoil anything from the books, it simply explains how certain things that were already shown in the show so far relate to the source material.] Anyways, the thing about Moiraine and Siuan didn't bother me one bit, because in the books Moiraine and Siuan are both clearly depicted as bisexual. They were "pillow friends" when they were young and training in the Tower, and they even share a kiss in the prequel novel "New Spring". The change here however is that they weren't shown to still maintain that type of relationship in this present storyline in the books. The entire dynamic of them being the only ones that are in on the whole plot that includes knowing that the Dragon was reborn about 20 years ago and knowing that they have to find this person is the same. They are the only two living people that were in the room when Gitara Moroso had the Foretelling of the Dragon being reborn, the Foretelling that killed her from the shock of just seeing it happen. That they have spent the past 20 years on this mission while hiding it from the rest of the Tower, in order to see it through without being Stilled - including them pretending to not see eye to eye to try to avoid suspicion, is entirely in line with the source material. :)
Adam confused the Ways with the portal stones. The major change from the book so far is the appearance and how the waygate is activated. In the book anyone could activate the waygate by manipulating a particular part of it; it didn't require channeling. They also brought their horses.
Mat being left behind was just an unfortunate effect of the actor leaving the set abruptly and never returning. So this may be the last time we see him in the show. The actor that is. The character was recast.
Mat isn't fully healed and that gets addressed in season 2. Also Barney Harris left during the filming of season 1 and from what I heard is was during filming of that episode. Also Moraine and Siuan are listed as "pillow friends" in the book. Many believe it was Jordan's way of having a same sex relationship during a writing time when that could get negative views.
Yea you have to figure not all sisters have the same plans/goals when it comes to the Dragon reborn. Hell, we don't even know yet really what Moiraine wants exactly with the chosen one.
I thought it was a reference to H R Pufnstuf... which was an awesome kids show a long time ago. Pupnstuf is going to be my nickname when the wolves show up now though.
Is it not interesting that Moiraine takes the liberty to swear the oath to Siuan personally, and not the Seat, as Siuan words it? So even if Siuan loses the office, Moiraine can still easily be called home by her lover.
My money is he's going back for the knife it's still calling to him, isn't it said that M&S had been pillow friends from time to time? It gets cold at night in the tower lol
The Eye of the World, I hate that Moiraine only received warning from Siuan. In the book, the warnings comes from multiple sources....even Loial. That's why Moiraine was convinced they need to go to the Eye, because the Pattern makes it obvious. Go There!! Now!!! haha.
“Nyaneave, can you be cool for a second?” You just summed up 14 books of character right there.
So in the prequel book, they briefly mention that Moraine and Siuan were in a relationship when they were novices. The show is just making it that they remained in one
And still very much in a relationship as accepted, and at least for a while still after they are both raised to full Aes Sedai. :) In other words far more than a brief mention, but at times it's written in a fairly subtle way. ^^
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. If I remember correctly the books implied a lot of accepted have relationships with eachother because they basically are the only ones that get what they're going through.
There is actually a kiss on New Spring, iirc.
Pillow friends is what they say I believe
Something to note, Robert Jordan had to mask homosexual relationships as other words "Pillowfriends" - Due to the 90s and publishers being very anti-gay. Rafe clearly decided to just make it official.
Adam killed me when he said "Swan Sanchez" XD
"Pillow friends" was totally in the book, but never really delved into
Best lines of the episode was from Moraine imo "On your knees" and "Amyrlin Seat waits for one woman...and you're not her" =)
While they didn't expound very much on pillow friendship they had New Spring, they did kiss.
@@AmyPierrottie There's also what could be interpreted as a fade to black sex scene between them in New Spring.
Actually it was delved into in later books when certain Aes Sedai are tasked with trying to "re-establish" their pillow friend relationship to gain inside information. You are correct that it didn't cover Moiraine and Siuan's relationship in-depth outside of New Spring. But it's not a leap or a change. They just brought something more to the forefront in the character's relationship that was always there in the books.
"As was common with a good many friendships in the cloistered society of novices, Siaun and Moiraine turned to one another more and more for comfort, and they eventually became pillow friends continuing up to the time they were raised Aes Sedai and to some extent for a time thereafter. Neither was lesbian; they were simply young women with normal libidos in a situation where they were cut off from the opposite sex."
@@Bittler87 and they were roomates!
There is implicit same-sex relations mentioned in the books under the name “pillow friends” - RJ confirmed that this were indeed what people thought they were, and that it was normal for young novice and accepted (trainee Aes Sedai) to “experiment” during those years, and that some of those relationships lasted until later.
Moiraine and Suian were “pillow-friends” in their youths in the books and this simply makes their relationship explicit rather than implicit, and makes their secret partnership to find the Dragon (which was in the books) a continuation of their romantic involvement as well.
So, while this *is* expanding on the books, it’s by a step, not a leap.
I was going to say this, but you worded it better than ever could have.
It's a stupid unnecessary series ruining leap. In the books you don't even _meet_ her until book 2. Look at all the _amazing_ drama they cut out and re-ordered due to "time constraints" whiel they added just this woke garbage to pander, changing almost every character from the books. There's a reason GOT was so popular, and there's a reason it turned to crap when they ran out of source material.
@@sterger7 GOT Literally did the same with the prince and the knight of the rose lol Phobes tried to cry then too. :D Love wins!
@@Saphthings If you can't see the dif between making a small change like that after X seasons of being faithful to the book, to _completely_ rewriting characters, the story, and 100% flipping personalities for various characters just to tell a woke agenda you're lost mate.
@@sterger7 I'm not lost, I'm awake : ) Love being "woke". I'd rather not be asleep to injustices.
I laughed so hard when Moiraine checked Liandrin 😂 YA BURNT!!!
Mat being left behind wasn't just random. The actor, Barney Harris, abruptly left the production in the middle of filming episode 6, and he has been re-cast by Donal Finn for season 2. The reason for Barney leaving is most likely personal, either health or family related, based on what the production have said about it. They had to come up for a reason that Mat is absent from the final two episodes, which he likely will be, so they changed this scene. I hope this helps. It's very unfortunate, I loved Barney in the role, but I really hope he's doing well.
Do you have positive confirmation that Barney left at that specific time and the scene was changed for that reason? I'm sure I've been following the production just as closely as you have. And while I think that is very probably the case, I'm still kinda cliffhangered on whether the change was (less likely) storyboarded this way on purpose and we get a little more Mat before the season is up, or (more likely) Mat is done for season 1 until we can pick up next year. I'd give it like a 20/80 dice roll.
@@FlagrantVagrant it was confirmed by the show runner
@@thedudesrug6930 I know it's confirmed that Barney left. And we have Donal in season 2.
But the *specific time* that Barney left and that they had to change their plans to accommodate it in season 1? Please cite that information for me if you can, thanks.
Like Moiraine says, "Exact verbiage. Words are important. And how we use them is important." I'm asking about proof of exact supporting details in the Barney story.
@@FlagrantVagrant I've been reading quite a few people talking about how they apparently took a covid break between episode 6 and the final 2 episodes...and that he left the production during that break.
If he really IS missing from the final 2 episodes, I imagine we'll see what Mat did during this period of the story at the very start of season 2....via flashback probably.
@@FlagrantVagrant I think this is just the prevailing theory don’t know that there’s any proof.
I'm just here for Adam's facial expressions every time there's an easter egg reveal lol
this is the only book reader reaction to this show that i enjoy. Everyone else picks it apart for the changes, you seem to accept them (like me). I'm glad it's a few years since i read the books so i can enjoy the show for what it is instead of comparing every little thing to the books.
I agree that I’m enjoying the acceptance. I’m a long-time bookreader and am re-reading again during the show. I love how they pull things from the books into the show to give to us, while making it feel exciting to experience again in tv form. It’s the best feeling to kinda re-experience the first time I read the books. Loving the show as well.
Not to plug my own content, but I'm a book reader, my podcast focuses on literary analysis of the books, and I'm loving the show. I have criticisms, but they're minor, and I think the changes are brilliant in the way they move the narrative along. That said, I'm not nearly as fun as these two 😉
Agreed, I'm in the same boat and actually stopped a re read once the show started filming so I didn't get bogged down in the weeds so to speak.
The show isn't perfect but those fans complaining that it's not a 1-2-1 adaptation are slightly driving me insane (ignoring entierly the ones mad that black people exist).
I don't know why, but people are always gonna hate something then years later, they'll change and say that it was the best thing ever (Star Wars Prequels), Been audio booking the wheel of time, its crazy long but they are amazing.
I'm not saying people can't have an opinion, but maybe for those who didn't like it because it's not the same as the books, It is called an Adaptation, its a show that has to work during covid and on a budget, adaptations are gonna change through different medias to fit a story and make it enjoyable to everyone while keeping the original plot. Considering how it's getting about 8 seasons, means Amazon loves what the writer's and the show's creator are going with it, and maybe it will have more episodes as the seasons go on or the episodes get longer, either way, let's just hold our breath, sometimes shows that have a weaker 1st season compared it's other, usually turn out greater because more time and recourses were devoted to it. (Game of Thrones, before season 8, which was the show's creator's fault for being too greedy (At the time Disney offered them a job to make a Star Wars show or trilogy because of how good GOT was, so the creator's wanting to hop on as soon as possible, rushed the last season, but because of how poorly that went, Disney backed out of the offer))
When i was watching the episode and saw the thing spray painted on their burned down house, out loud, I went 'THE COMMA STRIKES AGAIN' and immediently started looking forward to Jay mentioning it
Of all the reactions to the Wheel of Time I watch each week, I like yours the best... I think it is because the amazing energy and the chemistry between the two, and also the fact that one has read it and the other one hasn't, which makes their interactions really interesting to watch... Thanks guys, keep doing great...
It's odd that book readers continually say that they didn't have a romantic relationship, but they were "pillow friends" which RJ describes as something like mussing up the sheets, and in New Spring, they kiss, then fade to black (sex implied).
Moiraine and Siuan's relationship actually is in the books, but it's one of those 'blink and you miss it' things. RJ refers to them as having been 'pillow friends' in their youth.
They filmed episodes 7 and 8 last summer after Covid shutdown and the actor playing Mat for whatever reason left the show then. So they reworked this ending and Mat has been recast for Season 2.
Should have just scrapped the whole show and redone it this is garbage that's not even remotely similar to the book.
@@ExplorationRandomDestination can you honestly say it's a bad show, setting aside your obvious bias
@@HQofrandom If you have not read the books many times over the years and waited years for this show to come out I could see how it would be good. The actors are good and the way they worked the magic is phenomenal. I can't enjoy it with the drastic changes to the story and character build up they have skipped so much. at this rate the series is going to be over in 30 episodes.
@@HQofrandom Honestly seems like they put little effort into this and proper research.
@@HQofrandom I'm giving it one more chance next week any more deviations to character structure or story structure and I'm done. I'm like 98% sure next week will be my last episode at this point.
I was going to perform my civic duty and mention that Siuan and Moiraine's romance is expanded in scope here, but ultimately canonical. And that it is the portal stones, rather than the Ways, that offer glimpses of other realities (the Ways like to kill you via other methods). But I see that others have already completed this task. Cool. Good reaction as always!
Technically the ways are another reality.
No one seems to have noticed how purposely they designed Siuans costume when she is on the throne. From her "crown" hair jewelry, to the ruffles and flow of her dress, she is very purposely dressed to resemble a lion fish, harkening back to her being a fisher girl, and dangerous.
I've heard that Rafe wanted 10 episodes a season, but Amazon would only allow 8 because they're so expensive. As the show is duelling with Hawkeye for the number one spot, let's all hope that Amazon will be willing to spend the extra money and give us those extra 2 episodes after the second season.
maybe they should have cut some of the irrelevant time they spent on non-essential characters and spend it on the main characters, who have hardly any development.
How many are they planning?
@@ExplorationRandomDestination They have 8 seasons mapped out
Lol the kiss...it is in the books, but in New Spring (prequel book) when Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends". They were lovers early in their training to be Aes Sedai and the show just continued that relationship.
“You have been charged with bad grammar” 😂 They take their comma usage seriously lol
ADAM, I’m 100% with you about MATT and the DAGGER...also about them simplifying the story...I’m really enjoying this series more than the books...and JAY, your right, the costumes are 🔥🔥🔥!!!
Not enough has been said about Leanne by any reactors yet, so I’m just gonna say it… what superb casting and the acting is perfect! One of my favorite characters, and I love how she’s really leaning into that super stern, proper Aes Sedai mold right now. Really hoping they keep her part going in the series, because I love her story.
Yeah I love Leane in the books, and she's cast by the awesome Jennifer Cheon Garcia. She is shooting for season2 so I really hope we get lots of Leane in the episodes to come!
I love how well they comminicated the Keeper's relatively hard to describe role in the white tower by just letting her do her job.
And her voice was absolutely perfect.
I like that at the Waygate Moiraine's weaves formed the pattern of a trefoil which was used to lock and unlock the door to the Ways in the books.
16:25 It was mentioned that accepted would some time become "Pillow friends" but this is a whole new level.
18:00 "I do not have time for your BS" mic drop moment.
19:56 you can see the matching Item on the wall. At a guess, linked to their own little pocket dimension,
I personally think this is where Barney left, and this was the sort term solution, and we will come back to the recast. Sadly gonna make a rough transition.
Tel'aran'rhiod, possibly... it certainly had the look, though them entering it physically at this point in the series would be a bit weird...
Siuan and Moiraine were in a romantic relationship through their low 20s, then Moiraine's quest kinda got in the way
@@mbpoblet unless their bodies were left in their rooms. Lan was outside the room keeping watch after all... I thought the same thing about it being the dream world
@@reeferman42078 Yeah, but Moiraine was standing when she activated it. Now I'm imagining her all flopped on the floor...
@@DeadsySedai That is not correct. OP had it correct. This is a whole new level. "Pillow friends" equates to youthful dalliances and experimentation. This is a complex committed adult relationship that was not portrayed in the books.
I also read that show was confirmed at least 3 seasons.
Yes! This is very awesome!! 😊🌟
The things you are thinking of is the portal stones with the runes that when used for travelling show alternate realities. The Ways are different and look like they are going to follow the book version of being dark and very dangerous to get through. And hopefully they show what is supposed to be in the Ways because that has huge implications for a certain recurring character.
But with Mat not going into the ways what justification is there for said person following them?
@@JediKnight20043 True, didn't think of that. Unless they say Moiraine still has the knife with her. Which, while not consistent with the books, would still keep most of the plot line intact. Except for Mat. But who knows where they are taking that.
Then again they might just alter "that" character's origin and make it less involved than it was in the books. Being the "Voltron of Evil" is good for the books but not really necessary for the show.
@@chrisgroth9028 @JediKnight20043 There are many ways they can rework that storyline. Perhaps Mat reconnects with it while the rest of the part is away and the theft still occurs and they have to return and deal with it. I think we'll have to wait and see. We know said person was spotted in Tar Valon when they first entered in Episode 5. It's sad that Barney Harris left the show during the Covid shutdown which I believe resulted in them having to spin the end of Episode 6 this way and leave him behind. At least we know they have recast Donal Finn for Mat who appears to be a great actor as well for Season 2. As a long time book reader I've been enjoying being able to speculate and theorize again. We know roughly where things are going but they are unfolding the pattern with new warps and wefts so I'm still surprised at some turns.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but I believe this episode was at or near the time Barney Harris had to stop filming and withdraw from the show (for undisclosed reasons to the public) so I believe this change with Mat not coming along was one they had to make not cause they wanted to but because they had to.
I like the fact that the show is changing things up a bit, keeps the readers on our toes too. Some book readers are going to be livid about the fact that they changed anything, some are going to be worried about what the changes mean for their favorite character, but I think most of us are in for this ride even if It's not the road we normally take.
This episode was the first one where a change made me nervous (specifically how they talk about the eye of the world). However they've earned my trust with their previous adaptation decisions so I'm going to wait and see how they resolve it.
I'm re-watching these reactions and there are alot more comments than when I first watched them a year ago so I completely missed this. I've been a book fan since the 3rd book came out after seeing my mom read them. I have to say that I am soooo here for the ride!! I love that they gave Logains back story in the show. Can't wait til season 2!!
LOVE these reactions!
I see that other people have mentioned that Siuan and Moiraine did have a relationship (which was handled in a very subtle way for the most part, so I understand missing it) but I'd also like to add/correct one thing:
At 27:10, Adam mentions that you can see other realities in the Ways, but iirc it wasn't the Ways that let you do this but the PORTAL STONES, which are a different thing. The Ways have OTHER 'fun' features, but the Portal Stones are a distinct method of traveling that predate and enabled the building of the Ways, and have the ability to drop you into/show you other realities.
Great job, guys, and I love how fast you get these out!
So to provide context...Barney, the actor that played Mat, stepped away from the show during season 1. 1-6 were apparently done before the COVID crisis and 7-8 were done after. So something happened during that time that caused him to leave the show. No speculation for why it happened, but it did happen (worse case scenario for a show). It was a bit of a rough scene (him staying behind at the ways portal), but it was the best they could do, given what happened. It even looks like they used B footage of Mat looking around to make it seem plausible he was staying behind. And again...Moiraine and Siuan WAS IN THE BOOKS. It was in the prequel book. They were lovers early in their career.
You'll never out spy the the bluest of all the blues, though I do think this man Liandrin is meeting will turn out to be more important than Moiraine realizes.
I know some in the fandom are speculating it's a darkfriend she is meeting with...we will have to see!
That's my guess too. Either a solid whistler or a man with a piercing stare if you get my drift.
@@brandontaylor3252 Well she's a darkfriend so..yeah duh
So much fun watching both the bookreader and the blank slate getting grabbed by this story. Two more episodes! Best TV 2021! 👌
I watch WOT on Thursday and then wait anxiously to watch these guys react. Mostly for Adam’s shrugs. He’s gonna have sick traps at the end of this series.
The dog that Alanna says always slept in moraine’s bed from episode 4 was a subtle reference to her relationship with Suian as novices.
I became a subscriber during your Mando reactions (still love to rewatch them.). While I enjoy your other reactions too, I predict your Wheel of Time series reactions are going to end up being ‘right up there’ among your best because of your ‘one knows the books, one doesn’t’ vibe plus your always-fun chemistry. Keep up the great work - onward to 100K subscribers!
The actor that played Mat dropped out from the productions. So they had to update the end of the season. (He actually deleted all his social media… hope he’s ok)
Did you noticer in the background of the fishing scene at the beginning, you can see what seems to be the Stone of Tear?(sp?)
That’s what I was thinking, but wasn’t sure.
I have thoroughly enjoyed the adaptation. They turned the first book into something that was watchable, instead of just Monologue and walking for a book.
A book-accuratr video game adaptation The Eye of the World would be a walking simulator with some occasional horror elements.
I love that Moraine and Siuan are “pillow friends” in the show properly haha
Holy crap so glad you guys have this up! FYI it was hinted they were "pillow friends" in New Spring the prequel book.
"Hinted" nothing. They were quite explicitly pillow friends in New Spring.
@@davidmernick7360 And they were explicitly NOT during the actual book time. and PS she's not even in the first book....such a stupid pointless absurd addition at the cost of the actual plot
"Are you alone?"
Apparently the comma is the "dragon's fang" from the book.
Siuan and Moiraine were intimate as novices and accepted. Oh i think this is the episode where the actor playing mat left, which hit the episode a fair bit. Enjoyed the reaction as always!
I think the reason that Mat didn't follow in the end was because the actor left the series (for unknown reasons) during one of the covid related hiatus moments. They decided to rewrite the last few episodes instead of recasting the role at once. I've heard the new actor is doing a great job for the filming of season 2 that's shooting now.
Moiraine and Siuan are heavily implied, but never followed through to the end in the books. I think this is when Barney Harris bailed on the show to be honest so that's why Mat got left behind or it's because of the dagger or both lol.
lol I love it when you guys interact with the editing effects
Yeah that cleansing scene of Mat made me gag too.
Edit: "Criss cross applesauce?" You're killing me smalls!
Of the characters that deserves some retribution: Valda and Liandrin. In the books, they had very interesting fates. I hope the show keeps those.
Also want to point out the shape of the weave Moiraine uses to open the waygate. It's shaped like a trefoil leaf, which is what was originally used to open them in books.
And finally, I'm sorry, I have to correct you about the ways. They are just pathways and bridges. There's no setting alternate realities. That's the portal stones.
I'm not fully certain, but I think we may have seen one of those already as well - there was that pillar that all the sets of characters passed approaching Tar Valon that had a bunch of odd markings carved into it.
Amazing. I noticed neither the trefoil leaf pattern nor the (possible) portal stone. And I'm normally pretty good at that. So great catches, and thanks!
Aww Jay, that was me to my younger brothers all the time. "Can you be cool, for a second?"
A training montage set to "you're the best, around, and no one's ever gonna keep you down"
I know others have clarified already but haven't seen anyone mention why the Siuan Moiraine change is a very welcome one.
Rober Jordan presents "pillow friends" as a thing novices/accepted become but eventually grow out of, like being gay/bi/pan is immature. So when you do away with that poor idea, it just makes sense for Moiraine and Siuan to still be a thing. A lot more sense than who Moiraine gets with in the books (though I did like Siuan's romance).
Yeah, much as I liked the Moiraine thing there was no build up, no chemistry, nothing.
Boats sinking off the coast mmm might be important shrugs maabbyy
I think their fast tracking Mats storyline because it douse take forever so we should give him a big red hand for not jumping into the ways
In new spring they were implied to be pillow friends. They did have a romantci past.
I think we found the point where Barney Harris left the show....
I have no doubt that the script did not call for Matt to get left behind.
the actor who plays mat left the show so they had to rework a few episodes where they removed him and if im not mistaken he will be recasted for season 2
@@dajointcf4803 That literally what I said... This is where Barney Harris (The actor that Was Playing Matt) left the show.
@@hammerhiem75 oh shit i didnt know his name... im such a dumb ass
@@dajointcf4803 Well that changes it lol, no worries :)
Morraine is secretive maybe because she knows about the Black Ajahs who serves the Dark one and they're everywhere and maybe if they knew what her mission is they would thwart Morraines plan.
Yeah it was in the book. They often referred to her and Suian as "pillow friends " so this is just making it more obvious:p
No they didn't..it was in the prequel. You didn't even mean her until book 2. but amazon just _had_ to replace the actual story in the book with woke agenda instead of just following the books. This is exactly why this show is going to tank. I've never even imagined they could re-write so much of the first book....it's f'ing amazing. You can barely call this wheel of time. Matt isn't matt, perrin isn't perrin...oh god...such a trash show
@sterger7 I been reading the books since the 90s dear, I'm sorry the show is challenging your deeply held beliefs but they've been fairly progressive the whole time. It's always been alluded to in the series, and no series is going to a 1 to 1 replica of a book series, especially a 14 book massive series that most of the actual readers agree could have been trimmed down a few books. Welcome to the real world, I'm sorry it's so jarring. This old lady who's probably read the these books more times than most have read total in their lives is enjoying the crap out of the show. Go watch something else, and stop trying to ruin other people's fun. Have a blessed day.
@@fiction- Your stupidity is truly inspirational. I'm sure in your tiny liberal mind one must have "deeply held beliefs" to think changing a story to make a political agenda show is just stupid. PS I wonder if you'll still have your "deeply held stupidity" as the show gets cancelled after season 2. I'm sure you'll write it off as bad source material right?
@sterger7 I'm very sorry that I hurt your feelings hon. I was just trying to be honest with you. You might understand when you get older. But if this show is stressing you out this much you might need to just avoid it entirely. Take a breath and go enjoy something else. It'll get better!
@@fiction- It's ok child. Literally everyone knew you wouldn't understand anything as nuanced as "no one likes this crap, follow the book story" run along now child
Yes, it is in the books, and quite explicitly. In the regular Canaan they are referred to as “Pillow Friends“. In the prequel it is laid out much clearer. There’s also a scene where Verin blurted it out near the end of I believe book 11.
For Adam, pillow friends is kinda what their relationship meant not just best friends. For both of you Mat's actor left during production and I heard he was edited in that seen as not entering the ways
'Wait, what now?"
'Was this not in the book?"
"...no. no this was not in the book"
Actually, sort of. Remember that when they were novices they were referred to as 'pillow friends' ? I think the show is being blunt where the books were subtle.
"...THAT'S DIFERENT"
Yea from what I hear, the actor that played Matt seemed to have bailed on the show(no judgement. I don't know why . He might be going through a difficult moment in his life). They didn't have him for the last 2 episodes. They are changing actor for the next season.
I truly enjoy your reviews of this series! I have never read the books so I am coming into this brand new. Your review of it does not make me feel bad for not reading the books! I just enjoy it you guys are great and thank you for sharing just your great energy online I truly appreciate it, sorry for fanning out a little bit lol!
Watching this video was so eerie. I’m Justin, that’s my name!! It felt like you were talking directly to ME 😂😂. But don’t worry, I’ve been subscribed for like……five-ish years now.
recent subscriber knighted in. really enjoying all of this from a long time fellow Wheel of Time fan. The difference in you guys reactions is very entertaining.
Loosing Barney Harris for the show is so sad, he was an amazing Matt. But I think they can easily patch up the Matt left behind problem in season 2, they could just say Moiraine didn't manage to heal him completely so he was still connected to the dagger, and "someone" steal the dagger in Tar Valon before going to Faldara for other things, with Matt following that someone and the dagger, and there Matt is back in the place he is needed.
Yes their relationship is "in the book". But the book tries its best to not really do lgbt relationships super obvious. They call them "pillow friends". Moraine and Siuan were in a relationship when they were novices, and it's implied maybe more. The show just really went, "Yes, and we're not hiding it, and its very shown" instead of the subtext.
It's the exact same thing as Renly and Loras in Game of Thrones.
No they were not. They were pillow friends while novices and accepted, that was the extent. The official WOT companion confirms they were not lesbians, it is what it is in the show, but lets not rewrite the books.
@@gator7082 Yeah, sure, just "pillow friends" that kiss and have sex that's it xD Just normal sexual relationships between women that's not queer somehow. *dies from sarcasm*
And actually no. Writer confirmed it was a sexual relationship. His exact quote: “Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce.”
Your reply is the usual birasure and gay aversion with "it was just a phase".
@@gator7082 Here's some more quotes from the writer: "“Between one-third and one-half of all Aes Sedai (possibly somewhat more) are either gay or (mainly) bisexual to one degree or another".
Even Morraine herself said, "How close she and Siuan had been was no one’s business but theirs… There were things one talked about, and things one did not!”
So yeah, they were gay or bi lovers. It's just subtext to shown. What showed in the book from the era of "dont ask dont tell" vs todays progressive views. : )
@@Saphthings I don't have a gay aversion, I just have an aversion to you. Nice made up words though, you learn them at college when you got your B.S. degree? Were they lesbians when they went on to marry men? Siuan literally died with her husband in the last battle. Sounds pretty gay to me. Maybe you can point out chapter and verse where Morrain and Siuan fu**ed in the dream world. I'll wait....Who is rewriting what? You know there is a difference between two college girls having a bit of a tryst and what was portrayed in the show. However I understand nuance is lost amongst most Americans these days.
@16:21 yes it was in the book... it is said (several times if I remember correctly, but I'm not) that while they were training to become Aes Sedai, Moiraine and Siuan (Sanche, not Sanchez btw) were "pillow friends". What do you think it meant ? Also, in a big ass tower as this one, full of only women (and some champions and champions in training, granted), there is probably a lot of "pillow friends".
Also @27:12 you're mistaking the Ways introduced in book 1 and the Portal Stones introduced in book 2.
Love that Prime shows release at midnight GMT. So I was able to watch on Thursday night at 7pm in NY 😍
Siuan Sanchez! Now whenever I hear the name I'm gonna be picturing her in a sombrero, poncho and followed around by a mariachi band =)
Well, I'd always fancast her with Hispanic/Latina actresses (most recently Rosie Perez), so it kinda fits
@@pythoscheetah2553 Interesting. My mind's eye always pictured her as SE Asian.
@@The_Other_Dan Which is also fair, as Tear is a mix of SE Asian and Spanish influences
@@pythoscheetah2553 I always had Tear down as the Philippines
Siuan and Moiraine were "pillow friends" in the books. So this is just an extension of that
It was in the books. :D
It may take a while to get there, but am so ready for Ebou Dar. If only to hear different characters say Ebou Dar.
27:30 your thinking of portal stones this is the ways. There different ways of fast travel both with different issues.
Siuan and Moiraine were pillow friends.
And you mess up the difference between the ways and portalstones/worlds. They changed the entry to the ways. Mat will be played by a different actor in season 2, so this may be the last time we see Barney Harris play Mat. And they had to stop filming on this episode twice due to Covid. This episodes shows Moiraines commitment to her mission
The books called Moraine and Suane pillow friends. It was Jordan’s way to say they were gay without saying it. Times he lived in. 🙂🤷🏿♂️
Holy crap you guys are funny. Subscribed
The 2 key differences - Actor for Mat unexpectedly left the show mid production, so change forced on them. In books Siuan and Morraine had "pillow talk" it's how author implied they were lovers in a fantasy book at the time of writing - unlike these days people are cool with more overt about such relationships
Robert Jordan used sex scenes very sparingly in the books. Siuan and Moiraine were pillow friends as novices or as accepted, but he didn't say whether or not they stayed pillow friends a couple of hundred years later. The reason I think their sex scene was added is because Rafe Judkins, the showrunner, wanted to raise LGBT awareness. He added the sex scene and heavily implied that warders with the same Aes Sedai mistress were also gay with each other -- which definitely wasn't in the books.
moiraine and siuane relatuinshuo is in books just never highlighted like this. when training they were "pillow friends" up until shortly after they were raised to Aes Sedai. and in the wheel of time companion book it states that being "pillow friends" was sexual in nature.
Yesssss I'm so excited I've been loving your reactions and been waiting for this one!!
ADAM, I finally finished reading the final novel! So good , blood and bloody ashes .... I want to read all 15 books straight through now haha. I haven't read some of the early books since I was a teenager. Anyhow onto my thoughts on this episode :
The prequel novel called NewSpring touched on Moraine and Siuan relationship.
Also I'm pretty sure that the picture on the wall that they use to see each other is a form of 'angreal (ter'angreal? s'angreal? Items w certain uses made by and powered from aes sedai or women in general who can channel) ... my first thought was this is the dream world...not a "gateway"
The waygate and gateways are two different things by the way
I'm so ready to watch this with you. I've been saving my cookies for this. C'mon boys, it's cookie time!!!
Yeah it's unfortunate that this is the last of Barney Harris in the series and looks like they had to improvise the last 2 episodes without him.
I thought he was doing an exceptional job as Matt. I don't know what and who's decision it was to leave but extremely curious.
@@paulcurlin2789 Barney just dropped out. Seems he just disappeared. Even deleted all social media. 😣
@@paulcurlin2789 Barney left the production. He wasn't fired or anything, the production say that he was amazing to work with and they hope he's okay, which indicates that it's either health or family related.
Yeah a lot of New Spring info this episode. Exaggerating/extending the Mo/Su pillow friends reveal and, if u were paying attention, Su mentioned the sister born with white eyes that Mo told the group about earlier in the season that "saw" the Dragon reborn.That they are the only 2 that knew it and everything they have done since has been to find the DR and prepare the Tower for the Last Battle.
@@claudia1735 Didn't know about the social media deleted thing.
Hey Adam by the way Moraine and Siuan totally bang in the books. Let's just say "pillow friends" aren't just friends who talk at night😂😂
Also, Mat staying behind was not part of the original script. Covid hit right after they finished filming this episode. Unfortunately, Barney Harris who's been playing Mat, left the show for personal reasons and never returned to filming when production resumed. This is most likely the last we'll see of Mat until the new actor in Season 2.
Whaaaaa!?!? Holy crap, this the first I’m hearing of this.
@@pReviewd which part haha? Moiraine and Siuan are confirmed by Jordan to have had a sexual relationship when they were novices and Accepted which largely stopped when they were raised to the shawl. The show is just continuing that thread. In New Spring there's a section along the lines of "Moiraine could have kissed Siuan right then. And so she did."
But yeah, Barney Harris has left the show😭 No official word on why, but there's been silence from him and the show on the reasons.
@@pReviewd Adam, I highly recommend the channel The Dusty Wheel for news about the show. Matt, the host, also does the official "Inside the Wheel of Time" show on Amazon Prime's UA-cam channel! Good for news between episodes and seasons! 😃
Hey Adam and all fellow book readers, did you notice Moiraine's weave to activate the ways taking the shape of a leaf? Do I remember correctly when I say that in the books they used a leaf shaped switch to activate the ways? If so, this would be a nice adaptation.
Yes in the books you need to turn a leaf to open the waygate and not channel but not sure why they changed it.
@@Soshiworld0805 Yeah, I‘m not sure why exactly they did that particular change, especially because it kind of goes against the original purpose of the ways, but i can appreciate the way they did the change.
@@durchhalter I know that they filmed the first 5 episodes before the covid...so maybe that affected certain things...or maybe wanted to show more channeling earlier in the show... 'cause I heard that Loial would've looked much closer to his book counterpart but they couldn't and had to go practical for it right now. The change isn't too bad just I love the Ogier culture so much
@@durchhalter I'm hoping that she just used the power to do it faster, and all that's necessary is to make the trifoil leaf at the ways to use them. It would make sense AND tie into another setting in the books out of space and time
I've been waiting for 2 episodes now for you guys to comment on the actor doing Logain... But I guess you didn't clicked on him... "casa de papel"? "el professor"? 😉👌🏾 What an actor...
Great reaction as usual, I enjoy how the outside angle from one not reading the books and knowing nothing about this plays on the book reader, lore knowing opposite 👏🏾😜 entertaining indeed
Ok before I even get into the reaction AIRBORNE WAS MY ROLLERBLADING MOVIE TOO!!!! Seth green was HILARIOUS in that movie.
Love your reaction videos, keep them coming.
Yeah, losing Barney Harris as Mat like this was truly devastating when it leaked some months before the show went into the promotion phase, leading into the premiere. And it still is, now that we've seen him bring the character to life on the screen. We don't know the reason why it happened but we do know it certainly had nothing to do with his performance. What we do know is that blocks 1-3 (episodes 1-6) were shot before the pandemic shut everything down, and that when it became time to shoot block 4 (episodes 7-8) Barney Harris didn't return. In the book the whole Emond's Field 5 (I guess Two Rivers' 5 in the show) came along to the Eye of the World, but due to Barney Harris not returning they had to make this change which I assume required a reshooting of the final sequences, with certain "stock" footage of Mat from the original shooting edited in to show him staying behind.
It's really sad as Barney Harris as Mat Cauthon was one of the castings the fandom seemed to be the most excited about overall, and I really loved him in the role. We don't know the details but I'm assuming it's either private reasons of his, possibly related to health or family, or the production not letting him return for some reason. I hope it's not something like a disagreement over a vaccine mandate that ended up having one of the most beloved characters by far recast like this. We might never know, honestly. Here's to hoping Dónal Finn does a really good job in season 2 and onwards. Just looking at photos of him I'm even inclined to say that he might look even more like the mischievous scoundrel with a heart of gold I imagined when I first read the books in the 90s, but having one of the few biggest main characters recast like this is truly unfortunate no matter how you spin it.
[This doesn't really spoil anything from the books, it simply explains how certain things that were already shown in the show so far relate to the source material.]
Anyways, the thing about Moiraine and Siuan didn't bother me one bit, because in the books Moiraine and Siuan are both clearly depicted as bisexual. They were "pillow friends" when they were young and training in the Tower, and they even share a kiss in the prequel novel "New Spring". The change here however is that they weren't shown to still maintain that type of relationship in this present storyline in the books. The entire dynamic of them being the only ones that are in on the whole plot that includes knowing that the Dragon was reborn about 20 years ago and knowing that they have to find this person is the same. They are the only two living people that were in the room when Gitara Moroso had the Foretelling of the Dragon being reborn, the Foretelling that killed her from the shock of just seeing it happen. That they have spent the past 20 years on this mission while hiding it from the rest of the Tower, in order to see it through without being Stilled - including them pretending to not see eye to eye to try to avoid suspicion, is entirely in line with the source material. :)
I'm so old, my 'rollerblading movie' has James Caan as Jonathan E.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching you guys . Thanks
You aren’t wrong, the next couple episodes are going to pop off hard.
Adam confused the Ways with the portal stones. The major change from the book so far is the appearance and how the waygate is activated. In the book anyone could activate the waygate by manipulating a particular part of it; it didn't require channeling. They also brought their horses.
Mat being left behind was just an unfortunate effect of the actor leaving the set abruptly and never returning. So this may be the last time we see him in the show. The actor that is. The character was recast.
Mat isn't fully healed and that gets addressed in season 2. Also Barney Harris left during the filming of season 1 and from what I heard is was during filming of that episode. Also Moraine and Siuan are listed as "pillow friends" in the book. Many believe it was Jordan's way of having a same sex relationship during a writing time when that could get negative views.
In an interview, Jordan confirmed that “pillow friends” involves a sexual relationship.
Yea you have to figure not all sisters have the same plans/goals when it comes to the Dragon reborn. Hell, we don't even know yet really what Moiraine wants exactly with the chosen one.
Also, the relationship kinda was in the book we just never got explicit scenes of it. "pillow friends" was the term :P
Obviously it wasn’t about pillow fights and braiding hair 😌😏😂
They have hinted moiraine and Suian were pillowfriends in the books, just bringing it to the forefront now.
I thought it was a reference to H R Pufnstuf... which was an awesome kids show a long time ago. Pupnstuf is going to be my nickname when the wolves show up now though.
Is it not interesting that Moiraine takes the liberty to swear the oath to Siuan personally, and not the Seat, as Siuan words it? So even if Siuan loses the office, Moiraine can still easily be called home by her lover.
That's one reason, the pragmatic reason is also that a future Amyrln won't be able to order her around.
All I can say is that I am really loving this show.
I keep hoping to hear my name in the "Fix it!" bit, but there's no point since I'm already subscribed 🤣🤣
My money is he's going back for the knife it's still calling to him, isn't it said that M&S had been pillow friends from time to time? It gets cold at night in the tower lol
"Swan Sanchez" - I'm dead.
Siuan Sanchez!?!? LOL!!! Apparently the Ameral (Amyrlin) Seat loves tostadas lol.
The Eye of the World, I hate that Moiraine only received warning from Siuan. In the book, the warnings comes from multiple sources....even Loial. That's why Moiraine was convinced they need to go to the Eye, because the Pattern makes it obvious. Go There!! Now!!! haha.
You guys are awesome! Than you for your content.