new Question: Why is it that FDM printed CF-Nylon (and yep not only the one made by anyones mom) have the tendency to sag under constant load at temperature (~50-70°C)? For Example screw tension get lost over time. Especially on gantry parts of enclosed DIY printers. And that with or without annealing. ABS in compare does a better job in that.
I wonder how much this has to do with moisture absorption pre print and post print. My guess is that wherever this is happening, there’s moisture being introduced and that’s causing the sagging.
this is why Vision Minor is a great company. In any form of fabrication the more you understand what the part is going to be used for the better product you can produce for your customers. Vision Minor truly understands this and asks questions for that reason, it is why I am happy to be their customer.
8:14. as good as cf nylon is, I think you're mistaken. You're talking about a high-heat device with rotors that spin upwards of 60,000 rpm to compress air. NO WAY is that 3d printed nylon
I would love a large cf nylon comparison! Trying to figure out what to buy rn, I need something that's as strong as possible but I also don't wanna spend 200$/kg
Great video as always, Rob and Cole. I had no idea Nylon was a brand name! Happy holidays to everyone at Vision Miner. Also, love your Nano Polymer Adhesive!
Thanks Rob! Also thanks for the email response about Bowden tubes. ! -Nick I'm doing exactly this with an ender 3 in a heated chamber! Still finishing up the camber.
Great follow-up to a great video about HTNCF25 last year. When that video came out, I already had a spool of Saintsmart Nylon/CF of 75/25. I am using this for drone frames I design that utilize hollow structures with single 0.6mm wall thickness for best strength to weight. My filament is dried and kept dry. When the parts are first printed from a Prusa MK3, they are exceptionally stiff. What I have noticed over time is that the part becomes much less stiff. I assume this is due to water absorption. I tried conformal coating with a spray-on silicone on a newly printed part, and that softened the part, too. I assume this was due to the solvents in the preparation. Do you all have any ideas on how to coat a part to prevent absorption of water after printing? I'm 2/3 of the way through my spool, and I'm planning on getting some HTN CF25 after that! Many thanks!
I print a lot with PACF and love it. I would love to hear more about the high temp materials and to get some numbers on it's tensile strength and impact strength etc.
CFPA6 is best for drones that I have found and the additives do not change the temps of the majority resins blend but Process aid and others additives do help you run different heats to be possible but does not change the base materials MT but can help flow and gauge control ex: if you have a blend like LDPE 20% LLDPE 78% Black MB 2% it will run best closer to the 78% LLDPE MT if you have a blend like LDPE 20% LLDPE 77% Black MB 2% P/A 1% it will still be the MT of the base LLDPE material but you may have a wider heat range, flow and tru put ability with an example like PA-PROCESS AID in turn is then more resistant to carbon buildup this makes a longer run between cleanouts and less melt fracture during cold start ups and possibly better production and flow consistency with gauge control and proper heats i have run blends with 26 parts in 5 layer dies Always the base materials MT is where you wanna be but of course each machine varies slightly and in a extrusion "Screw and barrel" Extruder " the heats are usually run lower than the suggested Data sheets due to the friction heats built in the machine as backpressure plays a big part as well in non glue gun extrusions 3000-10000 psi are seen Some Back pressure gauges like DYNISCO also can have a MT display of your actual melt temp it will tell you the same i am above Real extruders have multiple heating zones and cooling zones on the barrel and dies the different heaters are for a heat profile not just to be set all the same for this reason
I print CF15 PA12 from fiberlogy on a direct drive+all metal ender 3, 0.4mm steel nozzle at 45mm/s, 0.16mm layer height, 95c bed 270c nozzle no fan, no enclosure. Bed is glass coated in "schwarzkopf got2b glued" hairspray baked on at 115c then lightly abraided with scotchbrite. Zero warping issues, zero adhesion issues, excellent bridging and overhangs. I actually find it outperforms PLA in basically every aesthetic regard!
gotta test that hairspray. some hairspray is so strong im having av very hard time getting the part off. Others are useless. And hairspray is a lot easier to get hold of then MAgigoo and so on.
@@17473039 I have never printed Nylon above 60C, even if it says 100+ on the label. (Bed temp). Just PVA glue and is usually what I use. But open to test something else too! :)
@@jbergene i mostly try and keep bed temps high to minimise temperature delta between layers at low layer heights to try and keep warping to a minimum. I also find it lets me have a higher initial layer speed.
Can you do more videos on the Essentium CF nylon that has 25% carbon fiber in it please? And i noticed in one of your videos you have a thumbnail of a brake lever for a motorcycle do you perhaps give out a sample part of that brake lever model made from the cf25 nylon?
Can people using Ender 3's afford CF Nylon? 2 kilograms of that material costs more than the machine. And even though I invested $2K AUD on a Voron 2.4, I still shiver at the cost of the Essentium HTN CF25 ($200/kg), but I want to print it so badly!
MK3’s are more than adequate. For example Markforged’s printers don’t even have a heated bed or a heated chamber and they’re base material is always chopped carbon nylon!
As for markforged, keep in mind their Nylon blend is proprietary -- and the bed is a special material, and they print incredibly slow compared to what we're doing --- it's very rare to do a decent size part in normal Nylon filaments (non-markforged) and have it work well, their stuff is magical in it's own right :)
@@VisionMiner For Sure! The NozzleX is my favourite nozzle when needing a hardened nozzle on my Prusa, it has some sort of coating which gives the molten plastic really good flow.
Great job. Are they ever going to add CF or glass to PCTG? I would like more vids on CF Nylon filaments, how to print them, and the best printers esp. for the money. And how big can you go size wise for quality parts using CF nylon. Merry Christmas!!!
please my name is Richmond how do I order that 25% carbon fiber filament from amazon please I'm from Nigeria and that's the only option for me to buy anything from
one material "ABS,ASA..." can have hundreds of MT'S and different specks as there are hundreds of variations this is from how the resin made not blended after its cracked once cracked it is what it is virgin offgrade ect....
Holy Amin I've been told there's no such thing as a stupid question so I'm just going to ask would it be beneficial to coat your filament with your nano polymer adhesive before printing in order to improve layer adhesion asking for a friend lol
Hi Rob, I meet you at westech. I have some suggestions for the channel I would like to see. Charts wouldbe nice. It's cool to see you burn materials and all. Yet, it doesn't tell me much about real world applications. For example if you had a chart that says it's impact resistant or chemical resistant. It would help with choose materials. Instead of using a vice to beak material coupons with your hand. Use actual measurements with numbers. I can't make heads or tails in some of your videos about a material. I feel there is a lot of missing information that could be provided to customers.
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are just linked to my brainwaves. I was planning on printing with CF Nylon when I finally get the space to tear down my truck and begin the endeavor of modifying it. Have been curious in the back of my mind with a lot of what was shared in this video. Now I am curious as to the temperature limit as far as sub zero. If I make a part would it crack easier at lower temperatures, or become stronger? For fun, what happens to rods/blocks of varying thickness (of each kind of CF Nylon) when submerged in liquid Nitrogen?
Could you please check out the Inland brand CF nylon? It's the brand at microcenter where I buy 90% of the filiment and resins I use. Thanks for the vid!
Oh yeah, it's fantastic -- that's just re-branded white-labeled ESun filament :) We love it for the little bit of basic stuff we do :) edit: we use their PLA. We don't use anything else, like their Nylon or anything, we stick to the engineering grade where we have full tracability of the original polymer used and additives --- most of these companies add a slew of additives to make Nylon warp less, but then it's no longer actually just Nylon, which is what the customers we serve need :)
I have stashed two spools of PA6+CNT. this stuff is out of this world.
Please compare strength of Markforged carbon fiber part vs Essentium PA-CF part.
new Question: Why is it that FDM printed CF-Nylon (and yep not only the one made by anyones mom) have the tendency to sag under constant load at temperature (~50-70°C)? For Example screw tension get lost over time. Especially on gantry parts of enclosed DIY printers. And that with or without annealing. ABS in compare does a better job in that.
I wonder how much this has to do with moisture absorption pre print and post print. My guess is that wherever this is happening, there’s moisture being introduced and that’s causing the sagging.
Is there anyway to get colored cf nylon?.
Or maybe paiting it is preferable.
That would be interesting.
Thanks
this is why Vision Minor is a great company. In any form of fabrication the more you understand what the part is going to be used for the better product you can produce for your customers. Vision Minor truly understands this and asks questions for that reason, it is why I am happy to be their customer.
Will cf nylon wear the grears on the extruder?
8:14. as good as cf nylon is, I think you're mistaken. You're talking about a high-heat device with rotors that spin upwards of 60,000 rpm to compress air. NO WAY is that 3d printed nylon
I would love a large cf nylon comparison! Trying to figure out what to buy rn, I need something that's as strong as possible but I also don't wanna spend 200$/kg
what brand of CF Nylon or CF PC has the best rigidity? And how does the rigidity compare to CF PLA+? thanks!
Great video as always, Rob and Cole. I had no idea Nylon was a brand name! Happy holidays to everyone at Vision Miner. Also, love your Nano Polymer Adhesive!
Lexan=PC nylon=PA cycolac....and so
I've upgraded my ender 3 with a Dyze hot end with their tungsten carbide nozzle. It works great for CF PA.
Thanks Rob! Also thanks for the email response about Bowden tubes. ! -Nick I'm doing exactly this with an ender 3 in a heated chamber! Still finishing up the camber.
Great follow-up to a great video about HTNCF25 last year. When that video came out, I already had a spool of Saintsmart Nylon/CF of 75/25. I am using this for drone frames I design that utilize hollow structures with single 0.6mm wall thickness for best strength to weight. My filament is dried and kept dry. When the parts are first printed from a Prusa MK3, they are exceptionally stiff. What I have noticed over time is that the part becomes much less stiff. I assume this is due to water absorption. I tried conformal coating with a spray-on silicone on a newly printed part, and that softened the part, too. I assume this was due to the solvents in the preparation. Do you all have any ideas on how to coat a part to prevent absorption of water after printing? I'm 2/3 of the way through my spool, and I'm planning on getting some HTN CF25 after that! Many thanks!
What would be the best material for 2a related prints?
I print a lot with PACF and love it. I would love to hear more about the high temp materials and to get some numbers on it's tensile strength and impact strength etc.
Merry Christmas VM congrats on the new IDEX milestone
I love the timelapse shots, been meaning to get mine setup
CFPA6 is best for drones that I have found and the additives do not change the temps of the majority resins blend but Process aid and others additives do help you run different heats to be possible but does not change the base materials MT but can help flow and gauge control
ex: if you have a blend like LDPE 20% LLDPE 78% Black MB 2% it will run best closer to the 78% LLDPE MT
if you have a blend like LDPE 20% LLDPE 77% Black MB 2% P/A 1% it will still be the MT of the base LLDPE material but you may have a wider heat range, flow and tru put ability with an example like PA-PROCESS AID in turn is then more resistant to carbon buildup this makes a longer run between cleanouts and less melt fracture during cold start ups and possibly better production and flow consistency with gauge control and proper heats
i have run blends with 26 parts in 5 layer dies Always the base materials MT is where you wanna be but of course each machine varies slightly and in a extrusion "Screw and barrel" Extruder " the heats are usually run lower than the suggested Data sheets due to the friction heats built in the machine as backpressure plays a big part as well in non glue gun extrusions 3000-10000 psi are seen
Some Back pressure gauges like DYNISCO also can have a MT display of your actual melt temp it will tell you the same i am above
Real extruders have multiple heating zones and cooling zones on the barrel and dies the different heaters are for a heat profile not just to be set all the same for this reason
i would like to see just an enclosure vs heated chamber
I would like to see a video comparing all of the electronic enclosures you printed out of different materials.
Would love to see a comparison of the Amazon CF Nylons vs the high end stuff. How ‘good enough’ is eSun or Sainsmart for non-critical applications?
you guy are now my next machine, love the work and I absolutely how you help people not using your platform.
Keep it up !!
Can the Bltouch installed on an industrial grade 3D printer with heated chamber withstand very high temperatures with a long print time?
I print CF15 PA12 from fiberlogy on a direct drive+all metal ender 3, 0.4mm steel nozzle at 45mm/s, 0.16mm layer height, 95c bed 270c nozzle no fan, no enclosure. Bed is glass coated in "schwarzkopf got2b glued" hairspray baked on at 115c then lightly abraided with scotchbrite.
Zero warping issues, zero adhesion issues, excellent bridging and overhangs. I actually find it outperforms PLA in basically every aesthetic regard!
gotta test that hairspray.
some hairspray is so strong im having av very hard time getting the part off. Others are useless. And hairspray is a lot easier to get hold of then MAgigoo and so on.
@@jbergene i reduce bed temps when I get too much adhesion. For very large footprint parts I reduce bed temp to 90 or even 85 degrees to aid removal
@@17473039 I have never printed Nylon above 60C, even if it says 100+ on the label. (Bed temp).
Just PVA glue and is usually what I use. But open to test something else too! :)
@@jbergene i mostly try and keep bed temps high to minimise temperature delta between layers at low layer heights to try and keep warping to a minimum. I also find it lets me have a higher initial layer speed.
How much does PA-CF creep compared to ABS-CF?
Its not recommended to print Voron parts using PA-CF, citing creep issues. Is it that bad?
CNC Kitchen made a video about how he had to anneal his CF Nylon parts in order for them NOT to creep. He used these parts for a voron zero build.
Can you do more videos on the Essentium CF nylon that has 25% carbon fiber in it please? And i noticed in one of your videos you have a thumbnail of a brake lever for a motorcycle do you perhaps give out a sample part of that brake lever model made from the cf25 nylon?
i have hardened steel nozzles but still need to get that hot end that's been sitting on my wishlist
Can people using Ender 3's afford CF Nylon? 2 kilograms of that material costs more than the machine. And even though I invested $2K AUD on a Voron 2.4, I still shiver at the cost of the Essentium HTN CF25 ($200/kg), but I want to print it so badly!
Very cool video! I’m really interested in the glass fiber nylon you mentioned, however I only have prusa mk3s+ printers right now. Are those adequate?
MK3’s are more than adequate. For example Markforged’s printers don’t even have a heated bed or a heated chamber and they’re base material is always chopped carbon nylon!
for sure! You'll just want a hardened steel nozzle for the abrasion resistance, but you should be able to sue it for smaller parts :)
As for markforged, keep in mind their Nylon blend is proprietary -- and the bed is a special material, and they print incredibly slow compared to what we're doing --- it's very rare to do a decent size part in normal Nylon filaments (non-markforged) and have it work well, their stuff is magical in it's own right :)
@@VisionMiner For Sure! The NozzleX is my favourite nozzle when needing a hardened nozzle on my Prusa, it has some sort of coating which gives the molten plastic really good flow.
Nice comparison will be looking forward for more detail comparisons on different nylons
Great job. Are they ever going to add CF or glass to PCTG?
I would like more vids on CF Nylon filaments, how to print them, and the best printers esp. for the money. And how big can you go size wise for quality parts using CF nylon.
Merry Christmas!!!
please my name is Richmond how do I order that 25% carbon fiber filament from amazon please I'm from Nigeria and that's the only option for me to buy anything from
one material "ABS,ASA..." can have hundreds of MT'S and different specks as there are hundreds of variations this is from how the resin made not blended after its cracked once cracked it is what it is virgin offgrade ect....
Just printed my first part with Carbon X CF-NYLON G3. Surface seems kinda rough. Is this normal?
yes just make sure it dry
I am referring to the printed object.
Yep, that's normal :)
Holy Amin I've been told there's no such thing as a stupid question so I'm just going to ask would it be beneficial to coat your filament with your nano polymer adhesive before printing in order to improve layer adhesion asking for a friend lol
It really would be nice if you could review some of those other CF Nylons. A lot of us struggle to afford £50-80 per kg, let alone £100+
always measure and show the chamber temp too!
Hi Rob, I meet you at westech. I have some suggestions for the channel I would like to see.
Charts wouldbe nice. It's cool to see you burn materials and all. Yet, it doesn't tell me much about real world applications. For example if you had a chart that says it's impact resistant or chemical resistant. It would help with choose materials. Instead of using a vice to beak material coupons with your hand. Use actual measurements with numbers. I can't make heads or tails in some of your videos about a material. I feel there is a lot of missing information that could be provided to customers.
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are just linked to my brainwaves. I was planning on printing with CF Nylon when I finally get the space to tear down my truck and begin the endeavor of modifying it. Have been curious in the back of my mind with a lot of what was shared in this video. Now I am curious as to the temperature limit as far as sub zero. If I make a part would it crack easier at lower temperatures, or become stronger? For fun, what happens to rods/blocks of varying thickness (of each kind of CF Nylon) when submerged in liquid Nitrogen?
Vacuum chamber will suck that water right out. You do not even need to heat it if it is a good vacuum.
Please elaborate on Cole's comment "Good enough for Glock, good enough for drones". Thank you in advance.
Glock uses a proprietary Nylon 6 blend for their frames, as well as many other manufacturers :)
Is carbon nylon recyclable?
BEST
Nothing about nothing)
Could you please check out the Inland brand CF nylon? It's the brand at microcenter where I buy 90% of the filiment and resins I use. Thanks for the vid!
Oh yeah, it's fantastic -- that's just re-branded white-labeled ESun filament :) We love it for the little bit of basic stuff we do :)
edit: we use their PLA. We don't use anything else, like their Nylon or anything, we stick to the engineering grade where we have full tracability of the original polymer used and additives --- most of these companies add a slew of additives to make Nylon warp less, but then it's no longer actually just Nylon, which is what the customers we serve need :)