I would say Cell never returning is only better IF the series ends there. The narrative of sacrifice was unmatched. However, Cell coming back allows Gohan to make things right. To fight against Cell with his father's will behind him. Facing the regrets and growing from his immaturity.
Yep. Goku was basically assigned the defender of the earth title but he realized two things. 1) Gohan is potentially more powerful, so if a REALLY strong villain shows up, he has a better chance of beating them than Goku and 2) He won't always be around. So having Gohan not realize what this role entails despite HATING it is a really cool arc for him to go through, and he pays the ultimate price: Losing his dad after FINALLY getting to spend some quality time with him in the time chamber. I think there are a lot of other weird things about the cell saga. Gero and the other android just feel like filler for example, and the heart virus plotline is...Pretty whatever since it barely goes anywhere. If that had gone more into a "Gohan, no one's immortal here" point then the virus would've been a lot more poignant. If it flared up during the Cell fight and made Goku weaker, maybe that could've convinced Gohan that what his dad told him wasn't just hogwash.
If Cell didn't come back it sets Gohan up for later development. He might not have been so neutered later on if he had to deal with the guilt of dragging things our with Cell, might have given a sort of darker tone going into Buu. Could have been cool
the whole point of the power levels were that they couldn't be trusted. That's why despite Raditz having a "higher power level" he still lost. Characters reading power levels always end up underestimating their opponents and losing because they rely on the whole number thing.
Not really. At 1:29, it shows Raditz' power level at 1500. Piccolo is shown at 3500, but that's later, and with his special beam cannon, he was apparently at 1480. So we're really comparing a character at 1480, defeating Raditz at 1500 who already had Gohan fly into his chest, was attacked by both Goku and Piccolo (the two adding up to be stronger than Raditz), and then got restrained by a Goku who himself could not do much else, so was left open for the beam from Piccolo. That's not a story about power scaling. Rather, this video is talking about a character not even flinching when punched straight in the face or otherwise attacked by another character (like Cell taking Krillin's kienzan to the neck and the kienzan just falling apart). That's the power scaling problem. No matter how creative Krillin could be, he's not even scratching Cell. Raditz is where power levels started. Later on is when those who could not keep up with the power creep became largely useless (except when the writers needed to completely and illogically do away with it all for the sake of the story, like with Roshi putting up a decent fight in the Tournament of Power in Super).
The entire point of Goku and Piccolo vs. Raditz was to show that skill and determination can overcome gaps in power, same with Goku's fight against Vegeta Then Freeza was there to show that sometimes an opponent who's stronger is just unbeatable without becoming stronger (much like a lightweight boxer fighting a heavyweight) It's not exactly the deepest philosophy, but there's a reason why I personally enjoy power levels at that stage, the only reason they suck is people trying to mathematically prove who's stronger on Twitter Or say smth like "King Vegeta had a power level of 10,000 and destroyed multiple planets meaning 10,000 is solar system level" which is blatantly untrue
@@Rationalific To be randomly fair. the DESTRUCTO disk to the neck was filler as that moves a lot more potent than you'd think. Akira himself stated it can cut most anything and would even harm the likes of beerus if he carelessly touched the blade part of the unique Ki move. so while your point still completely stands. I just want to spread the word that krillins the goat and we should all respect him for making that move up.
This is the best Dragon Ball critique I've ever watched! Your reasoning is sound, and I don't really have any substantial disagreements whatsoever. You stated it all very well!
Dragon ball originally was supposed to be an adventure comedy with a splash of action and martial arts but he saw that people loved his action and then that’s why we got more fights,
You're right about power levels. This has been a cancer for years, right up until Hit had that time skip thing. The writers should take more of this. People LOVED those fights with Hit. Because it was like OG DB.
2:01 i think i have to disagree there, because remember that power levels can change dramatically one moment to the next. So the battle is still indecisive. Maybe the villain or hero don't react to the power up but one or the other can get an unexpected transformation like Super Saiyan, or the Kaioken in this case ig, because i think Kaioken wasn't shown until Goku's fight with Nappa i think, so overall the uncertainty was still there imo. Power levels in numbers never meant anything really, its just for immersion.
You forgot the Uranai Baba tournament... I think that's the actual conclusion to the "Red Ribbon Army Saga". It started with Goku looking for his grandpa's dragon ball and it ends with him actually seeing his grandpa again, like a reward for all the effort made and people helped along the search.
I’m really hoping a bunch of people collaborate to rewrite all of DBZ and make a fan manga. Toriyama already stated that all the stuff in DBZ wasn’t planned out, so it’d be cool to see how it would play out without all the issues like “power levels”
yeah smarts and skills should also matter in fights. the whole power level thing is the same issue with the whole "brute power" thing. hell that was even talked about in DB and Z there and there once in awhile. dc and marvel ironically enough knows everything matters in a fight not just energy and brute power all the time.
arcs that had the biggest problem for each series overall in my opinion: >OG in general: Comedy, i think its not funny but thats just my opinion >Saiyan Saga: power levels >Goku Black: Ending, the arc has problems but the ending is bad in both versions what is the point of having the future trunks timeline be destroyed like you want the heroes to lose ok have future trunks stay and we see some character writing for once of him getting over his failure but his reaction in both versions was very weak and immidiately took the offer to join another timeline where he existed instead of at least using the timeline cell came from (wich is still bad but its a callback to z and it doesnt have 2 trunks and 2 mai in a universe so its slightly better) had this or them retreating and having beerus fight zamasu (who was coming in un7 at the time) would have made this arc an all time great for db >Black Star Dragons: the mini bosses/villains lacked a lot, i am always here for a space journey or a journey in general but the bad guys they fought were lacklaster most of the time
Just watched “New Hope” and this recap and the fan made should go hand in hand. Love how you break down the power system and talk about how much it sidelines other “main” characters
I actually agree with most of these besides Cell shouldn’t of returned and Goku coming back in Buu saga. The Cell saga wanted to shift the attention away from Goku so I think him being the noble sacrifice and the arc ending wouldn’t be satisfying. It also wasn’t just Goku who beat Buu he threw the final attack but you can say Vegeta and Hercule had a bigger impact on that ending.
Your one of the few db youtubers I have seen try to fairly criticize each series. And I think that's good. Your not picking favorites your covering each thing. It may not always be perfect agree with some things disaree with others but I get the idea.
Trunks transformation in dbs is great in terms of emotions and stuff. His rage really makes sense. The problem really is how much power he gains. He jumps from SSJ2 level to around SSB. Like, even Gohan doesn't power up that much. A cool thing would have been if Vegeta refused to go to the future and instead insisted on training Trunks so that he could protect his own world by himself. It fits the character and Goku would have been fine with that considering he did the same in the Buu saga. Vegeta had to learn SSG, and not just get it like Goku so he could have taught Trunks like in the HTC, thinking the huge power gap between SSJ2 and SSG would be enough. During that day of training, Black could still come to this timeline, like the anime, and Goku fights him, since he's the only one here. And then later, Trunks gets mad and gets a power up and why not a new form but starting from SSG. It would have been so much better, we would see Vegeta care for Trunks, we would have learned how Vegeta got SSG in the first place. Trunks rage would have amplified by the powerless despite intense training feeling. And it would grant the arc overall better consistency. Also another problem I see with the saga is that Black is actually more interesting than Zamasu, including fused Zamasu. He's not only about his zero mortal plans, he's obsessed with getting stronger, and the sayian biology.
3:07 legit man if you consider that vegeta with 18,000 was already strong enough to level a planet. And frieza first form sits at over 500k and can destroy a planet with 1 finger and then we get to like a million then several million. The power creep is nuts
Not as much of a reload as it is giving what some people want. There are people who prefer long videos, and it gives people to watch 4 videos in one place
I see a lot of people saying that this is hating on the series. First off, why watch if you feel that way? Secondly and more importantly it’s not a crime to have criticism of something you love. Guess what, even the creator of this series had things he wanted to change after the fact. So why can’t a fan have a valid critique?
Bro, i agree and would've been much more harsh. Yet there are so many shills for this franchise up in here, being petty or hateful. Like, dude. This is his opinion but opinion based off of FACTS! Y'all need to grow up..
The amount of hate comments that I see here. You can tell who was a real fake Dragon Ball fan. Like you can enjoy it with its flaws. Listen man just ignore the hate. I love your stuff and it's amazing that you're identifying the flaws of each arc. I believe everyone needs to open their eyes to this
Dragonball is flawless....dbz has so many anime issues like padding and focusing on the wrong things...the characters don't feel real they feel like action figures mostly used to make goku look good and make everyone waste time and wait for him as they lose...
i know this is a compilation video of other videos you’ve made and i haven’t seen the originals but curious if 14:42 is where u mean to end the goku black critic. it feels very abrupt and i’m shocked u didn’t bring up the zeno button or the convoluted solution for future trunks from Whis. also just my opinion and i promise it’s meant to be constructive next time maybe try to do each series chronologically in these big combo videos going from super to OG DB felt jarring. plus it would make the title seem more accurate and help with presentation much love keep going.
from what I'm getting at. he's bring up the impact of each saga for the series as a whole. rather the plot holes in them. like the power creep example he bring up. it changed the series as a whole. rather tell a story that's meant to be told. the dragon orbs and dragons. they put to much in action rather given answers about the orbs and mostly about the dragons. like where do they come from? the main question that never been straight up answered.
My gripes with every arc, at least in Z and Super: Saiyan/Frieza Saga: Everyone’s lack of power. The Z-fighters all were practically slaughtered by Nappa and Vegeta, not to mention the hell Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin went through on Namek. Androids/Cell Saga: Trunks being completely useless after his introduction, and more than half of his screen time being wasted in two movies that I was never able to see. Cell’s revival also ruined the arc. Buu Saga: How many phases Buu really went through, as well as Goku becoming the main character once again. Beerus Saga: The retcon of why Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and the introduction of Super Saiyan God, which is overrated. Future Trunks Saga: The ending being ruined as well as bringing Zeno into another timeline and erasing it, making everyone’s efforts against the Androids and Cell worth nothing. Universe Survival Saga: Powerscaling between every fighter being completely thrown out the window.
In DBZ, he term "Android" is a misnomer for both 17 & 18. They're actually cybernetic humans who were experimented on by Dr. Gero. This is how 17 was able to give birth to Marron. So, in response to your point, 18 DID have a soul and was the reason why he was able to return from HELL
27:30 think you misunderstood the 21st tenkaiichi budikai and what it Stand for. This was the transitional arc the end of og series and the start of “z”. The return to the tournament plus roshi not participating in it symbolized Goku krillen tien and Yamacha all becoming respected martial artists who can stand on thier own with them all fundamentally surpassing roshi. This effectively ended the longest running theme up to this point in time. Then you also have the aging of Goku both physically and mentally further symbolizing this change into this new era. U mentioned how it bring anything new that’s because the arc was meant to ends the all points currently going on in order to set up news 1s that we will later see in the franchise. To your last point the power scaling “problems” we already told from the get go that’s Goku and piccolo rematch was our main focus this arc and their respective fights was to show how us the viewers how both grown up to this point.
Dragon Ball is the best. I actually loved when it wasn't just about fighting but also problem solving. The red ribbon saga was awesome. I loved that I had a lot of bosses cause growing up with it is how I felt: a kid against a bunch of adults. I mean, dragon ball z didn't even exist so there was nothing to compare it to. There was nothing to expect either. Everything was new.
It has nothing to do with me being lazy. I’m making another NEW video as I type this, but people were asking me to put these into one video and that they like longer videos😂
You don't like the humble beginnings of Dragon Ball… but Battle of Gods is your favorite movie. I don't even know what to say… Dragon Ball is to be read (not watched) from beginning to end. You don't watch DBZ and then expect spectacular fights in DB. How silly is that? And DBS is even worse than DBGT, which was already a huge pile of crap.
I don't agree with most of your points on DBZ. Power levels were introduced to give an explanation to how aliens could sense the presence of other warriors. Goku learned to sense Ki but we learn that not everyone is capable of doing this. So the scouters were introduced to give aliens a tool to locate other characters and to create some tension during the fights but it never went too far. We never find out the definitive power levels during the final fights, leaving us to anticipate what happens next. Zenkai boosts are just a bad narrative decision. I agree with you on that. Bringing Cell back feels a bit nitpicky cause it does lead up to one of the most iconic moments in the series. And bringing Goku back in Buu arc is not that big of an issue and it actually ties well into the overall story. Goku and Vegeta were the reason Buu woke up and by the end it came full circle. It was still Goku and Vegeta who had to fix their mistake. So, I don't really agree here. Perhaps the biggest problem is how they massacred Gohan's character.
I think power levels would have been okay if Toriama didn't connect them to everything about a fighter. Like two fighters could have the same power level but different stats, like someone is faster while the other is stronger physically, while another has stronger ki blasts. This way power levels only gives you a sum total without exposing everything about a fighter. This could set up mismatches that could be exploited rather than just assuming 2000 vs 1000 means the 1000 power level fighter is automatically doomed.
the old give a good advice about fighting. smarts, skill, power EVERYTHING matters. energy and brute power are not an always win. like if goku was smarter when facing stronger fighters. he would have make them waste there energy than he jumps on them. or if they were dumb and mad he would wait to strike when there guard is down. and what if someone has strong skin or bones? what well power level of 1000 can do to something or someone with the same level but also to damn tough to beat down or cut down? than power levels wont really matter anymore. we got cell, buus, omega shenron not only tough to beat but also hard to actually kill. hell the U6 and U7 fight we got a pooh and robot that are very hard to beat down and there power levels are not super high. but nope high power level beats them. they really should keep up the whole stats thing you point out now just there power level difference.
Ain't no way are you gonna say the Pilaf Saga is boring 💀. You aren't looking at the actual story that's there you're looking at it as someone who's already seen Dragon Ball Z and wants more of that
Personally i didnt really mind the spirit bomb killing buu all too much. This is because its not necessarily Goku's power, its the power of everyone combined. In fact iirc the spirit bomb wouldnt have defeated buu without mr. Satan, one of the weakest characters at the time
People look at this, as hatred. Tune loved DB enough to critique it. Thats as real as it gets. Nothing is perfect & nothing is exempt from being critiqued.😂
bringing goku back to life was the best thing ever done goku is and will alaways be the main character gohan can not be the mc he doesnt fit for it no one can replace goku dragon ball without goku is not db.
So wat anime do u like cuz it’s obviously not dbz ain’t no show perfect but for this to be your favorite anime u sure go out your way to find pointless ways to shit on the entire series
Before I block you man, I just gotta say: if you think you can do better than go do better. I bet that you never stepped in the shoes of a mangaka, you probably shop at a whole different shoe store. You can point out flaws all you want - that's easy because having an opinion is easy - but you'll never understand how hard it is to actually avoid these problems that famous shonen creators like Akira Toriyama had to face. They're a few in a billion, and you're just a guy with a UA-cam channel. You have a right to put your opinion out there, and people have a right to hate you for it. Get hated on, and then maybe do something more with your life.
Not as much of a repost as it is giving what some people want. There are people who prefer long videos, and it gives people to watch 4 videos in one place.
After years of hearing arguments against super its pretty clear the problem with super isn't the show its the fans. Apparently people forgot how bad the writing is in Z and that the power scaling has been a problem since bare minimum Frieza saga. The good news is if you're willing to overlook the flaws of Z there is no reason you can't with super. Every criticism leveled at super can easily be used against Z yet because of nostalgia super gets the blame for the problems created by Z.
it does get the blame for problems that were made in Z and the hate it gets is over the top (like many ppl act like it murdered their entire family or sth) but i will still make the claim that z and og writing was better
considering the fact that dbs retconned several established aspects of both og db and z, throws established power scaling out the window constantly and reuses plot points from not just db and z but also gt and the movies along with having overall shit writing makes the negativity towards it adequate.
@@uteriel282 2 entire retcons 💀1. the timeskip having events between buu and EoZ and 2. mafuba doesnt kill you after being used. The powerscaling was never established anywhere aside from shaky at best power lvl statements that make 0 sense btw all are problems z has as well, the z anime straight up retcons goku's character from the manga, it reuses aspects from movies (garlic jr) reuses the red ribbon army and many other plot points from og and even its own story with buu same with gt super is indeed the worst/2nd worst db show (besides heroes) and a badly written show but this arguements are all increadibly hypocritical when you chose to not place them towards the other shows and the hate it and gt get are not adequate its way over the top
GT is like a mixer of all 3 timelines. comedy at the start also boring one some edges DB. middle power creeping with random enemies with similar abilities Z. than the end facing godlike and maybe god tier enemies, with fusion and a new energy on top of that fusion that seems to be god ki soon to be SUPER. than later after that we got super now facing godlike and god tier enemies. is like GT showing there own version that are characters are facing enemies that are god levels and gods are the only limit we think there was at the time. but thanks to lovecraft there beings beyond that and higher and that's a scary thought. than that would make dragon ball story longer. if they planed to go that far. but that would also make it boring if they endlessly keep beating more and more stronger enemies. it would be like watch or playing a endless game and all you can do is beat everyone elses scores. also there would be even much more movies because they're (at the time of Z) just "what if". fans need to stop feeding those guys. because that's the only excuse why the anime and manga keeps going. the ideas were already starting to run out since half way of GT. I think Super should've keep the idea of the Dragon Balls having a cost should be a thing. they did it with the 3 ball dragon. I think GT actually did great with the title it's self "dragon ball" show GT means Goku Time. but actually about the dragon balls not just goku. that's one thing that makes it hold up the way it did. the dragons of every version of dragon ball are the only ones back than and today are the most mysterious part. should've keep with the dragons rather just the fights. we still don't know where they come from or how powerful they can be. the only thing I get from the balls they're just seals. you can make as many dragons as you want. but they're are clearing coming and going from somewhere else that we never get the answer from. if the host dies the dragon dies. but is that really the case? are those dragons really dead because the host is dead or they just can't be summoned anymore? because when the host comes back to life the dragons are just fine. also are the dragons really are made by the host or just made summon keys to bring in dragons? do a few life forms in any universe have connections with the dragon realm? are there dragon cults besides heaven and hell cults? you see what I mean? if the series just keep up with the dragons and the orbs. we could have something there while also still got action out of it. it would've been so much more interesting. that's the only thing I like about GT they actually pin more on the dragon balls. a cost of wishes and more dragons, some can be in high levels of power while can also act on there own free will if given the chance of freedom. the ideas are endless but Z and SUPER didn't do what GT did with the dragons and wishes would cost something thing. we are just left with more action rather just more answers about the Orbs and Dragons.
@@ItsBigTune Oh Namek saga. I thought you would've known because you said youd argue with anyone who said the namek arc wasn't the best arc (I agree it is the best)
Man sorry bro but I gotta unsub. Don't nobody wanna see all this negativity in their sub box. You always talking about problems and shit. I'll be back when you upload something positive.
Gotta disagree with the Cell and Buu saga choices. Cell coming back allows Gohan to mature and Goku still gets to be a hero through sacrifice. And for Buu, Goku coming back gave us the Super Spirit Bomb and that moment is top tier
For Super, overall my 2 biggest problems are the regression in characters and the bad power scaling. Like Goku had to be told by Vegeta the benefits of meditation. Something Goku did throughout the entirety of Z. Or how Goku forgot that he should fight with no wasted movements, Something he learned from Korin and Popo as a child. Meanwhile Vegeta regressed from Buu saga to Cell. He acknowledged that Goku became the strongest by loving the fight, not out of anger and pride. Then in Super it's like his speech in the Buu saga never happened
25 years later and I still have no idea why my Vegeta toy had a gun
Bro he uses the Galick gun 😂
So many hate comments eesh. Cut this guy some slack, he is just sharing his opinions, and honestly? It's a good video, keep it up :)
I'm just upset he effectively skipped the entire 22nd WT. Best arc of the whole story and it's just lumped in with DKP, sad to see.
I would say Cell never returning is only better IF the series ends there. The narrative of sacrifice was unmatched. However, Cell coming back allows Gohan to make things right. To fight against Cell with his father's will behind him. Facing the regrets and growing from his immaturity.
To to mention goku still saved the whole planet
Yep. Goku was basically assigned the defender of the earth title but he realized two things. 1) Gohan is potentially more powerful, so if a REALLY strong villain shows up, he has a better chance of beating them than Goku
and 2) He won't always be around. So having Gohan not realize what this role entails despite HATING it is a really cool arc for him to go through, and he pays the ultimate price: Losing his dad after FINALLY getting to spend some quality time with him in the time chamber.
I think there are a lot of other weird things about the cell saga. Gero and the other android just feel like filler for example, and the heart virus plotline is...Pretty whatever since it barely goes anywhere. If that had gone more into a "Gohan, no one's immortal here" point then the virus would've been a lot more poignant. If it flared up during the Cell fight and made Goku weaker, maybe that could've convinced Gohan that what his dad told him wasn't just hogwash.
If Cell didn't come back it sets Gohan up for later development. He might not have been so neutered later on if he had to deal with the guilt of dragging things our with Cell, might have given a sort of darker tone going into Buu. Could have been cool
I respect the fact that you’re not just calling the Dragon Ball franchise “perfect”. All the critics are valid
Critiques.
Spelling is valid
the whole point of the power levels were that they couldn't be trusted. That's why despite Raditz having a "higher power level" he still lost. Characters reading power levels always end up underestimating their opponents and losing because they rely on the whole number thing.
Not really. At 1:29, it shows Raditz' power level at 1500. Piccolo is shown at 3500, but that's later, and with his special beam cannon, he was apparently at 1480. So we're really comparing a character at 1480, defeating Raditz at 1500 who already had Gohan fly into his chest, was attacked by both Goku and Piccolo (the two adding up to be stronger than Raditz), and then got restrained by a Goku who himself could not do much else, so was left open for the beam from Piccolo. That's not a story about power scaling. Rather, this video is talking about a character not even flinching when punched straight in the face or otherwise attacked by another character (like Cell taking Krillin's kienzan to the neck and the kienzan just falling apart). That's the power scaling problem. No matter how creative Krillin could be, he's not even scratching Cell. Raditz is where power levels started. Later on is when those who could not keep up with the power creep became largely useless (except when the writers needed to completely and illogically do away with it all for the sake of the story, like with Roshi putting up a decent fight in the Tournament of Power in Super).
The entire point of Goku and Piccolo vs. Raditz was to show that skill and determination can overcome gaps in power, same with Goku's fight against Vegeta
Then Freeza was there to show that sometimes an opponent who's stronger is just unbeatable without becoming stronger (much like a lightweight boxer fighting a heavyweight)
It's not exactly the deepest philosophy, but there's a reason why I personally enjoy power levels at that stage, the only reason they suck is people trying to mathematically prove who's stronger on Twitter
Or say smth like "King Vegeta had a power level of 10,000 and destroyed multiple planets meaning 10,000 is solar system level" which is blatantly untrue
@@Rationalific To be randomly fair.
the DESTRUCTO disk to the neck was filler as that moves a lot more potent than you'd think.
Akira himself stated it can cut most anything and would even harm the likes of beerus if he carelessly touched the blade part of the unique Ki move.
so while your point still completely stands. I just want to spread the word that krillins the goat and we should all respect him for making that move up.
@@vixenxia2475 Hehe. Fair enough with that specific example. 😄
This is the best Dragon Ball critique I've ever watched! Your reasoning is sound, and I don't really have any substantial disagreements whatsoever. You stated it all very well!
Yeah I subbed because of this video.
@@ThunderChunky101 Me, too.👍
Dragon ball originally was supposed to be an adventure comedy with a splash of action and martial arts but he saw that people loved his action and then that’s why we got more fights,
You're right about power levels.
This has been a cancer for years, right up until Hit had that time skip thing.
The writers should take more of this. People LOVED those fights with Hit.
Because it was like OG DB.
I’m glad we have all come to the conclusion that the last great arc was the Cell saga
2:01 i think i have to disagree there, because remember that power levels can change dramatically one moment to the next. So the battle is still indecisive. Maybe the villain or hero don't react to the power up but one or the other can get an unexpected transformation like Super Saiyan, or the Kaioken in this case ig, because i think Kaioken wasn't shown until Goku's fight with Nappa i think, so overall the uncertainty was still there imo. Power levels in numbers never meant anything really, its just for immersion.
You forgot the Uranai Baba tournament...
I think that's the actual conclusion to the "Red Ribbon Army Saga". It started with Goku looking for his grandpa's dragon ball and it ends with him actually seeing his grandpa again, like a reward for all the effort made and people helped along the search.
I’m really hoping a bunch of people collaborate to rewrite all of DBZ and make a fan manga. Toriyama already stated that all the stuff in DBZ wasn’t planned out, so it’d be cool to see how it would play out without all the issues like “power levels”
yeah smarts and skills should also matter in fights. the whole power level thing is the same issue with the whole "brute power" thing. hell that was even talked about in DB and Z there and there once in awhile. dc and marvel ironically enough knows everything matters in a fight not just energy and brute power all the time.
arcs that had the biggest problem for each series overall in my opinion:
>OG in general: Comedy, i think its not funny but thats just my opinion
>Saiyan Saga: power levels
>Goku Black: Ending, the arc has problems but the ending is bad in both versions what is the point of having the future trunks timeline be destroyed like you want the heroes to lose ok have future trunks stay and we see some character writing for once of him getting over his failure but his reaction in both versions was very weak and immidiately took the offer to join another timeline where he existed instead of at least using the timeline cell came from (wich is still bad but its a callback to z and it doesnt have 2 trunks and 2 mai in a universe so its slightly better) had this or them retreating and having beerus fight zamasu (who was coming in un7 at the time) would have made this arc an all time great for db
>Black Star Dragons: the mini bosses/villains lacked a lot, i am always here for a space journey or a journey in general but the bad guys they fought were lacklaster most of the time
Just watched “New Hope” and this recap and the fan made should go hand in hand. Love how you break down the power system and talk about how much it sidelines other “main” characters
I actually agree with most of these besides Cell shouldn’t of returned and Goku coming back in Buu saga. The Cell saga wanted to shift the attention away from Goku so I think him being the noble sacrifice and the arc ending wouldn’t be satisfying. It also wasn’t just Goku who beat Buu he threw the final attack but you can say Vegeta and Hercule had a bigger impact on that ending.
love how clear and concise your dialogue is man
I be telling ppl saga is a real word!!! Ppl always tell me it’s called an arc and not a saga.
Anyone who thinks dragonball z is flawless clearly never grew up
yeah even when I was young. even I was going like "wait a damn minute" in some eps. the wishes from each dragon are good examples for those moments.
The endless chase for higher power levels is a good representation of "The Will"
Goku vs. Freiza was peak DBZ.
Love you for acknowledging this.
Your one of the few db youtubers I have seen try to fairly criticize each series. And I think that's good. Your not picking favorites your covering each thing. It may not always be perfect agree with some things disaree with others but I get the idea.
Everyone criticizes dragon ball Whatchu mean 😭
This is a very good video. I can’t believe you don’t have more subscribers, BUT can you PLEASE ADD CHAPTERS FOR THIS all ❤ tho all w
You are absolutely right, I normally do that for videos like these.
I appreciate the piano cover of Pokemon Gen 2 bgm.
My god that Pokémon beat drop at 14:43 🔥🔥🔥
Trunks transformation in dbs is great in terms of emotions and stuff. His rage really makes sense. The problem really is how much power he gains. He jumps from SSJ2 level to around SSB. Like, even Gohan doesn't power up that much.
A cool thing would have been if Vegeta refused to go to the future and instead insisted on training Trunks so that he could protect his own world by himself. It fits the character and Goku would have been fine with that considering he did the same in the Buu saga.
Vegeta had to learn SSG, and not just get it like Goku so he could have taught Trunks like in the HTC, thinking the huge power gap between SSJ2 and SSG would be enough. During that day of training, Black could still come to this timeline, like the anime, and Goku fights him, since he's the only one here.
And then later, Trunks gets mad and gets a power up and why not a new form but starting from SSG. It would have been so much better, we would see Vegeta care for Trunks, we would have learned how Vegeta got SSG in the first place. Trunks rage would have amplified by the powerless despite intense training feeling. And it would grant the arc overall better consistency.
Also another problem I see with the saga is that Black is actually more interesting than Zamasu, including fused Zamasu. He's not only about his zero mortal plans, he's obsessed with getting stronger, and the sayian biology.
3:07 legit man if you consider that vegeta with 18,000 was already strong enough to level a planet. And frieza first form sits at over 500k and can destroy a planet with 1 finger and then we get to like a million then several million. The power creep is nuts
Re-upload?
Not as much of a reload as it is giving what some people want. There are people who prefer long videos, and it gives people to watch 4 videos in one place
@@ItsBigTune for you Goku has more won or lost these count the all fights db dbz dbgt dbs and movies dbz?
@@ItsBigTune appreciate the clarification brotha!👊🏿
I see a lot of people saying that this is hating on the series. First off, why watch if you feel that way? Secondly and more importantly it’s not a crime to have criticism of something you love. Guess what, even the creator of this series had things he wanted to change after the fact. So why can’t a fan have a valid critique?
Bro, i agree and would've been much more harsh. Yet there are so many shills for this franchise up in here, being petty or hateful. Like, dude. This is his opinion but opinion based off of FACTS! Y'all need to grow up..
The amount of hate comments that I see here. You can tell who was a real fake Dragon Ball fan. Like you can enjoy it with its flaws.
Listen man just ignore the hate. I love your stuff and it's amazing that you're identifying the flaws of each arc. I believe everyone needs to open their eyes to this
Dragonball is flawless....dbz has so many anime issues like padding and focusing on the wrong things...the characters don't feel real they feel like action figures mostly used to make goku look good and make everyone waste time and wait for him as they lose...
Freeza arc best in DBZ. Cell Saga for DBZA. Everyone is peak character.
i know this is a compilation video of other videos you’ve made and i haven’t seen the originals but curious if 14:42 is where u mean to end the goku black critic. it feels very abrupt and i’m shocked u didn’t bring up the zeno button or the convoluted solution for future trunks from Whis. also just my opinion and i promise it’s meant to be constructive next time maybe try to do each series chronologically in these big combo videos going from super to OG DB felt jarring. plus it would make the title seem more accurate and help with presentation much love keep going.
from what I'm getting at. he's bring up the impact of each saga for the series as a whole. rather the plot holes in them. like the power creep example he bring up. it changed the series as a whole. rather tell a story that's meant to be told. the dragon orbs and dragons. they put to much in action rather given answers about the orbs and mostly about the dragons. like where do they come from? the main question that never been straight up answered.
My gripes with every arc, at least in Z and Super:
Saiyan/Frieza Saga:
Everyone’s lack of power. The Z-fighters all were practically slaughtered by Nappa and Vegeta, not to mention the hell Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin went through on Namek.
Androids/Cell Saga:
Trunks being completely useless after his introduction, and more than half of his screen time being wasted in two movies that I was never able to see. Cell’s revival also ruined the arc.
Buu Saga:
How many phases Buu really went through, as well as Goku becoming the main character once again.
Beerus Saga:
The retcon of why Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and the introduction of Super Saiyan God, which is overrated.
Future Trunks Saga:
The ending being ruined as well as bringing Zeno into another timeline and erasing it, making everyone’s efforts against the Androids and Cell worth nothing.
Universe Survival Saga:
Powerscaling between every fighter being completely thrown out the window.
Zeno wasn't brought into another timeline, he's the Zeno of the Future timeline, unless you're talking about after
National Park theme tho 👌 great choice
Good video, but roshi also said in dragon ball that ultimately whoever is stronger is the winner
In DBZ, he term "Android" is a misnomer for both 17 & 18. They're actually cybernetic humans who were experimented on by Dr. Gero. This is how 17 was able to give birth to Marron. So, in response to your point, 18 DID have a soul and was the reason why he was able to return from HELL
Nothing in this world is truly perfect; except cell that is.
27:30 think you misunderstood the 21st tenkaiichi budikai and what it Stand for. This was the transitional arc the end of og series and the start of “z”. The return to the tournament plus roshi not participating in it symbolized Goku krillen tien and Yamacha all becoming respected martial artists who can stand on thier own with them all fundamentally surpassing roshi. This effectively ended the longest running theme up to this point in time. Then you also have the aging of Goku both physically and mentally further symbolizing this change into this new era. U mentioned how it bring anything new that’s because the arc was meant to ends the all points currently going on in order to set up news 1s that we will later see in the franchise. To your last point the power scaling “problems” we already told from the get go that’s Goku and piccolo rematch was our main focus this arc and their respective fights was to show how us the viewers how both grown up to this point.
Bro didn’t miss on a single point
Dragon Ball is the best. I actually loved when it wasn't just about fighting but also problem solving. The red ribbon saga was awesome. I loved that I had a lot of bosses cause growing up with it is how I felt: a kid against a bunch of adults. I mean, dragon ball z didn't even exist so there was nothing to compare it to. There was nothing to expect either. Everything was new.
bro got that CJ accent
I hate when UA-camrs just combined old videos into one long one it’s lazy
It has nothing to do with me being lazy. I’m making another NEW video as I type this, but people were asking me to put these into one video and that they like longer videos😂
@@ItsBigTunefair
It's not lazy if the individual videos have quality and pertinent content, it's just simplifying an already tedious process
You saved my time.
Imagine calling what is essentially a compilation of the same kind of topic ranging from each entry of a series into one video and calling it lazy 💀
You don't like the humble beginnings of Dragon Ball… but Battle of Gods is your favorite movie. I don't even know what to say… Dragon Ball is to be read (not watched) from beginning to end. You don't watch DBZ and then expect spectacular fights in DB. How silly is that? And DBS is even worse than DBGT, which was already a huge pile of crap.
Vegeta knew about baby / growing up conquering planet 🌎 tuffel
I don't agree with most of your points on DBZ. Power levels were introduced to give an explanation to how aliens could sense the presence of other warriors. Goku learned to sense Ki but we learn that not everyone is capable of doing this. So the scouters were introduced to give aliens a tool to locate other characters and to create some tension during the fights but it never went too far. We never find out the definitive power levels during the final fights, leaving us to anticipate what happens next. Zenkai boosts are just a bad narrative decision. I agree with you on that. Bringing Cell back feels a bit nitpicky cause it does lead up to one of the most iconic moments in the series. And bringing Goku back in Buu arc is not that big of an issue and it actually ties well into the overall story. Goku and Vegeta were the reason Buu woke up and by the end it came full circle. It was still Goku and Vegeta who had to fix their mistake. So, I don't really agree here. Perhaps the biggest problem is how they massacred Gohan's character.
I'm really like DragonBall GT, I actually like it a little more than Super and yes I know it's not Cannon but I enjoy it.
I think power levels would have been okay if Toriama didn't connect them to everything about a fighter. Like two fighters could have the same power level but different stats, like someone is faster while the other is stronger physically, while another has stronger ki blasts. This way power levels only gives you a sum total without exposing everything about a fighter. This could set up mismatches that could be exploited rather than just assuming 2000 vs 1000 means the 1000 power level fighter is automatically doomed.
the old give a good advice about fighting. smarts, skill, power EVERYTHING matters. energy and brute power are not an always win. like if goku was smarter when facing stronger fighters. he would have make them waste there energy than he jumps on them. or if they were dumb and mad he would wait to strike when there guard is down. and what if someone has strong skin or bones? what well power level of 1000 can do to something or someone with the same level but also to damn tough to beat down or cut down? than power levels wont really matter anymore. we got cell, buus, omega shenron not only tough to beat but also hard to actually kill. hell the U6 and U7 fight we got a pooh and robot that are very hard to beat down and there power levels are not super high. but nope high power level beats them. they really should keep up the whole stats thing you point out now just there power level difference.
i din't knew that GT sucked cuz toriyama wasn't present in that project....that sad.
Yeah... I love gt, but it mishandles great and amazing ideas and concepts.
Ain't no way are you gonna say the Pilaf Saga is boring 💀. You aren't looking at the actual story that's there you're looking at it as someone who's already seen Dragon Ball Z and wants more of that
Dragon ball failed my goat gohan, goten and kid trunks development ngl
Do one on the best sagas in all dbz db and dbs
Android/cell saga was literally the best saga
DBZ is literally the second show, Zip it up dude
Personally i didnt really mind the spirit bomb killing buu all too much. This is because its not necessarily Goku's power, its the power of everyone combined. In fact iirc the spirit bomb wouldnt have defeated buu without mr. Satan, one of the weakest characters at the time
Your entire channel is hating on the series
Cut him some slack
He makes the content he wants to make
Hate gets more views
Yall really think I’m hating on Dragon Ball😂 I think I start almost every vid with “one of my favorites” or “greatest anime of all time”
@@ItsBigTunea disclaimer before the hate, nice tatic
Tsk tsk
That first take on OG DB is simply TRASH. My god, it felt like someone poisoning my ears.
People look at this, as hatred. Tune loved DB enough to critique it. Thats as real as it gets. Nothing is perfect & nothing is exempt from being critiqued.😂
I think you have some interesting views on dragon ball
true....powerlevels is a bad start for the sequel of OG dragon ball (dragon ball Z)
dragon ball was not given a fair analysis, you can’t judge it off of what you know it’s gonna become, you gotta judge on its own
bringing goku back to life was the best thing ever done goku is and will alaways be the main character gohan can not be the mc he doesnt fit for it no one can replace goku dragon ball without goku is not db.
I like how the gt hate is always “poorly executed” no further explanation. Also acting like gt has worse pacing than db or z is laughable
The amount of cope in the comments is crazy 😂
No they just gave him some random power up that was barely stronger than ssj 3.
Every time I see this channel it’s some forced criticism of the series 😂
Okay what did he say that was wrong?
"Forced" 😂 cope
Forced how? You're the one clicking on this video, so stfu lmao
It's okay. Akira Toriyama will definitely take note... unless if he's dead or something. I mean... if Akira's dead, why crap on his legacy?
Dragonball Z has no flaws
God talking about a get hater 😂😂😂 he must have been born in 2009
Calling the arcs by your own names ain’t a personality
Do the problem with DBH please
So wat anime do u like cuz it’s obviously not dbz ain’t no show perfect but for this to be your favorite anime u sure go out your way to find pointless ways to shit on the entire series
Before I block you man, I just gotta say: if you think you can do better than go do better.
I bet that you never stepped in the shoes of a mangaka, you probably shop at a whole different shoe store.
You can point out flaws all you want - that's easy because having an opinion is easy - but you'll never understand how hard it is to actually avoid these problems that famous shonen creators like Akira Toriyama had to face.
They're a few in a billion, and you're just a guy with a UA-cam channel.
You have a right to put your opinion out there, and people have a right to hate you for it. Get hated on, and then maybe do something more with your life.
37:05 Say what now?
Is this a repost?
Not as much of a repost as it is giving what some people want. There are people who prefer long videos, and it gives people to watch 4 videos in one place.
DUDE AKIRA TORIYAMA IS DEAD. DEAD MAN. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
After years of hearing arguments against super its pretty clear the problem with super isn't the show its the fans. Apparently people forgot how bad the writing is in Z and that the power scaling has been a problem since bare minimum Frieza saga. The good news is if you're willing to overlook the flaws of Z there is no reason you can't with super. Every criticism leveled at super can easily be used against Z yet because of nostalgia super gets the blame for the problems created by Z.
He criticized Z as much as super tho?
Also elaborate on the writing part, I'd argue db as a whole is underrated writing wise 🤷🏾♂️
it does get the blame for problems that were made in Z and the hate it gets is over the top (like many ppl act like it murdered their entire family or sth) but i will still make the claim that z and og writing was better
Nah
considering the fact that dbs retconned several established aspects of both og db and z, throws established power scaling out the window constantly and reuses plot points from not just db and z but also gt and the movies along with having overall shit writing makes the negativity towards it adequate.
@@uteriel282 2 entire retcons 💀1. the timeskip having events between buu and EoZ and 2. mafuba doesnt kill you after being used. The powerscaling was never established anywhere aside from shaky at best power lvl statements that make 0 sense
btw all are problems z has as well, the z anime straight up retcons goku's character from the manga, it reuses aspects from movies (garlic jr) reuses the red ribbon army and many other plot points from og and even its own story with buu same with gt
super is indeed the worst/2nd worst db show (besides heroes) and a badly written show but this arguements are all increadibly hypocritical when you chose to not place them towards the other shows and the hate it and gt get are not adequate its way over the top
GT is like a mixer of all 3 timelines. comedy at the start also boring one some edges DB. middle power creeping with random enemies with similar abilities Z. than the end facing godlike and maybe god tier enemies, with fusion and a new energy on top of that fusion that seems to be god ki soon to be SUPER. than later after that we got super now facing godlike and god tier enemies. is like GT showing there own version that are characters are facing enemies that are god levels and gods are the only limit we think there was at the time. but thanks to lovecraft there beings beyond that and higher and that's a scary thought. than that would make dragon ball story longer. if they planed to go that far. but that would also make it boring if they endlessly keep beating more and more stronger enemies. it would be like watch or playing a endless game and all you can do is beat everyone elses scores. also there would be even much more movies because they're (at the time of Z) just "what if". fans need to stop feeding those guys. because that's the only excuse why the anime and manga keeps going. the ideas were already starting to run out since half way of GT. I think Super should've keep the idea of the Dragon Balls having a cost should be a thing. they did it with the 3 ball dragon. I think GT actually did great with the title it's self "dragon ball" show GT means Goku Time. but actually about the dragon balls not just goku. that's one thing that makes it hold up the way it did.
the dragons of every version of dragon ball are the only ones back than and today are the most mysterious part. should've keep with the dragons rather just the fights. we still don't know where they come from or how powerful they can be. the only thing I get from the balls they're just seals. you can make as many dragons as you want. but they're are clearing coming and going from somewhere else that we never get the answer from. if the host dies the dragon dies. but is that really the case? are those dragons really dead because the host is dead or they just can't be summoned anymore? because when the host comes back to life the dragons are just fine. also are the dragons really are made by the host or just made summon keys to bring in dragons? do a few life forms in any universe have connections with the dragon realm? are there dragon cults besides heaven and hell cults?
you see what I mean? if the series just keep up with the dragons and the orbs. we could have something there while also still got action out of it. it would've been so much more interesting. that's the only thing I like about GT they actually pin more on the dragon balls. a cost of wishes and more dragons, some can be in high levels of power while can also act on there own free will if given the chance of freedom. the ideas are endless but Z and SUPER didn't do what GT did with the dragons and wishes would cost something thing. we are just left with more action rather just more answers about the Orbs and Dragons.
Would you argue with me if I said the best arc in anime?
Which one?
@@ItsBigTune Oh Namek saga. I thought you would've known because you said youd argue with anyone who said the namek arc wasn't the best arc (I agree it is the best)
The video was fine.
And then you got to OG Dragon Bal… wow. Terrible.
These comments make my head hurt
Fun enough, Roshi once said he doesn’t teach actual Martial Arts because he believes strength ultimately determines who wins a fight
Aye plastic love lol
"Alone with the Spirit Bomb"
False.
wow this is a horrendous video
Man sorry bro but I gotta unsub. Don't nobody wanna see all this negativity in their sub box. You always talking about problems and shit. I'll be back when you upload something positive.
Dragon ball fans when you point out a flaw (db has zero flaws and should only be praised)
Buu saga is definitely my least favorite of Z. I think the only the only thing I only liked about it was Gohan’s badass mystic forms.
Hi
Dejavu
Simply dying is not a consequence totally annoying
Great vid been loving the content 💯 them crazy zenkais in the T.O.P anime were crazy😂💪🏾
Gotta disagree with the Cell and Buu saga choices. Cell coming back allows Gohan to mature and Goku still gets to be a hero through sacrifice. And for Buu, Goku coming back gave us the Super Spirit Bomb and that moment is top tier
For Super, overall my 2 biggest problems are the regression in characters and the bad power scaling. Like Goku had to be told by Vegeta the benefits of meditation. Something Goku did throughout the entirety of Z. Or how Goku forgot that he should fight with no wasted movements, Something he learned from Korin and Popo as a child.
Meanwhile Vegeta regressed from Buu saga to Cell. He acknowledged that Goku became the strongest by loving the fight, not out of anger and pride. Then in Super it's like his speech in the Buu saga never happened