My only issue was in the Shadow Dragon arc. It’s 7 dragons, I feel like the other characters could’ve had shine and broke up into groups to collect the dragon balls
Most definitely. When I was watching gt with my brother, he even said Gohan is going to fight some shadow dragons. What happened next was lame as none of the other characters were there to fight any shadow dragons.
GT's ending is perfect. Not only it brings the whole story full circle by making Shenlong the ultimate enemy, it also gives a conclusion to Goku's journey which harkens back to Journey to the West, with him ascending to a higher plane of existence.
I disagree with a lot of your points. Back Star Saga - I personally think the tones worked fine. My real issue is the inconsistent screen time when it came to them visiting worlds. Some lasted a decent while, where we got to learn about the inhabitants and their planet... while others were barely explored at all. Baby Saga - 100% disagree. Cell had a nice mystery to him, but most of the relevant information we got was him literally just... telling us. Baby's build up was gradual, the heroes kept encountering him and each time he appeared, he became more and more dangerous. We even saw his gradual takeover from Earth and felt the tension of when Goku and Co. Arrived to an affected world. Baby Saga had some issues, but Baby himself was done amazingly. We also had like... no idea how SSJ4 looked like. We barely got information. UI is the same. Most of UI's build-up was done in TOP. The anime had like... one or two scenes prior to kinda hint at it. When I first watched GT, I did not expect SSJ4. I assumed Golden Great Ape was the peak, especially since it was cooking Baby. I don't really have much issue with the Saga. Outside of Majuub meaning jack squat... Super 17 - Every issue is the pacings fault. I hate how the characters barely did much outside of Goku. And the whole hell segment was... ehh. Shadow Dragon Saga - Mostly agree. 7 Dragons, really wish each was handled by a different character. There's already a power hierarchy, with Haze being weaker than Base Goku (for example), so they could've easily had other characters team up against five shadow dragons while Goku fought Nouva.
@@humanman9920i believe he is refers to when majuub had no use after the baby arc He got diffed by s17 And barely did any of value during the shadow dragon arc
@@hbshadow8981He literally said that in the Baby saga section before Super 17 arc saying " issue with *the saga* " dude read it again . People just forget stuff and downplay characters . And no even in shadow dragon arc he was the one who held off Syn shenron for Goku to get increased full power ssj4 if it weren't for him Syn was gonna finish them there .
I highly disagree with your Cell assertion simply due to he didn't just say what he did. There were driving factors behind it. The biggest exposition we get from him is how it is simply because Piccolo tricked him into divulging the info. And this was after we didn't know who he was, why Kami was so scared, why he could use the Kamehameha and why he had others ki. It was done very well and gave the audience what they needed and then went from there. It's like "oh hey guys, we've got to stop this thing before he gets to absorb the androids." THEN the arc really kicks off. Honestly, blame it on the editors shaming 17 through 20 but Cell's exposition was well handled in my opinion. I also disagree with the UI comparison to the SSJ4 handling. UI was foreshadowed since the FnF movie and Whis gave explanations from there to the ToP but never said how to achieve it. We didn't even know if Goku would. SSJ4 was literally their end goal so we knew it would be achieved by Goku.
@humanman9920 You're right about the Baby Saga, to an extent. The issue isn't that Majuub did NOTHING. It's that in the grand scheme of things, he was underwhelming. Baby Saga had him do very little. He had about two scenarios for himself, and while they were pleasant, he ultimately fell back. I can excuse the Baby Saga because he at least put on a solid fight. I draw the line in the Shadow Dragon Saga. I'm genuinely hunting for his scene, and the best I got was him putting Omega in a full Nelson for a few seconds before, once again, being sidelined. Majuub peaked in the Baby Saga and fell off soon after. Which is, again, a story problem/powerscaling problem because he HAD the ability to shine in the Shadow Dragon Saga, but all the screen time was given to Goku and Pan. (Do not talk to me about downplaying because I am the 1% who believes GT can stand up to Super)
1. The idea that Toriyama had absolutely no say or thoughts with GT is cap. He drew illustration and gave general ideas for each arc. 2. The characters in GT actually feel like progressed characters unlike their Super counterparts
No not for each arc. Just the beginning. And no they are a sad shell of their potential. Look my boy Gohan training and too hesitant to run them hands. Like I knew he has. And instead of overcoming their challenges almost everyone in GT falls to them. Its sad.
@@AstraFulminous Absolutely not . Gohan didn't want to hurt Goten yet he schooled him in base form and only even got baited into turning ssj when Baby Goten was about to do final explosion and " destroy everything " . And Gohan is the only one who i wanted a bit more from because he's Gohan of course , rest of the characters already did good as they were , ik its popular to gaslight all GT characters into nothingness but that's far from facts . Goten and Trunks are easily the best version of themselves any day of the week from every angle . Vegeta even with the less screen time never got this much respected not just in character development but power wise too , being explicitly established the strongest in the beginning then , going back to the second spot as always in Super 17 arc but still having grown being easily stronger than Majuub there , and catching up not only to the form ssj4 in shadow dragon arc after the extra intense training but specifically to Goku's level which was actually increased by a mile a few episodes earlier , fighting Omega on par with him and catching him off guard a couple times , being explicitly stated equally strong as Goku in GT Perfect Files , makes sense why Bulma said Vegeta could even surpass ssj4 cuz at that time Goku hadn't gotten increased full power with others help , Vegeta got there on his own training . Uub being the absolute MVP in baby arc right behind Goku being by far the strongest at one point giving Super baby 2 a run for his money then coming back by reversing the chocolate beam which Buu never could revealing he got hit by it deliberately in the first place to wait and strike at the right moment , saving everyone from getting rekt while trying to restore ssj4 Goku's power and holding off Golden ozaru Baby long enough , coming back in shadow dragon arc again holding off Syn shenron long enough for Goku to get increased full power ssj4 . 18 being important once again , Piccolo being brought back up even with the less screentime doing sh*t everytime he showed up instead of being the babysitter joke like in Buu saga who got humiliated on even the things he could control . Pan not only beating one of the sigma force members after rage awakening who earlier a holding back Goku had trouble hitting because he had adapted all their past battle data , but beating one of the shadow dragons later when Goku was endlessly getting rekt by Oceanus . Nobody failed nothing except Gohan to some extent . He should've done a bit more shadow dragon arc and that would've been perfect , cuz everyone got their moments in baby arc including him and his personality with the level headedness he showed throughout the show was handled perfectly . The most goated out of them was Vegeta catching upto Goku again in the end after directly establishing he was still gonna get stronger and see what his limits were without comparing to Goku .
@@humanman9920Look you can say that to yourself all you want. However most of the time including in the moments you are mentioning the characters are either being: defeated, involved in way too much mind control at cost to them never really overcoming the situation they themselves got within on their own, endimg up stalling for someone else to resolve their challenges instead of actively being ready to try and defeat the opponents themselves. even into the point where, at times they encourage each other not to get involved due to the fear of getting in the way even though they could really use all the help they could. And only doubling back afterwards. Which either path could have been a staple if the actions themselves weren't also being nullified by a lack of greater impact to the villian's goal plus their own and also at times very the allies they are working to assist, due to them not actively using the opportunities given to them more effectively to begin with. And also existed alongside the various thematic loses they also ended up taking in an addition to all of the other problems they faced. Its a sad sight. You feel bad to see it.
this is a lie and you clearly got confused with super. toriyama has actually stated what his involvement with gt was. and no character feels any more developed in gt than super because no character other than goku gets any character time in the show, and he explicitly has not changed and in fact regressed. the most you get is vegeta who is the exact same as super vegeta except worse because he gave up doing anything but gets ssj4 for literally nothing unlike super vegeta who forces himself to keep up with goku and earns everything he is given
When I was first getting into Dragon Ball, that always confused me. Since here in the West we got the different Dragon Ball series in a bizarre order (Z, GT, and THEN the original DB) I was really struggling to understand what the heck was going on. And because I wasn't watching it religiously, and because there was so much content, there were a lot of things that I missed. Case in point, and I'm going to sound like a complete idiot here, when I first got into the series, I wasn't aware that Saiyans had Monkey Tails. I missed the episode of GT where Goku got his Tail pulled out, so I had absolutely no idea why he suddenly had a Tail. I just knew that it had something to do with his Super Saiyan 4 transformation. Then when I saw the advertisements for Dragon Ball, I originally thought that it was continuing on from GT. Heck, even when GT was first announced, I thought that Goku was Goten, and that he was going to be the main character. Man, the fact that I got into this series in the first place is a miracle.
• Black star db saga - I never had much issue with its tone, its dragon ball's unique charm creating goofy comedic scenes in the midst of some serious fights or characters being casual around way weaker ones , it's set up well in the first episode when Goku is shown just taking it easy and enjoying life not instantly showing urgency to fix any problems , it just seems natural that he takes it easy whenever something doesn't pose much of a threat , and when it does the tone gets more serious as it should , only problem it had was a couple episodes having these specific scenes with slow pacing which got boring , but most of it was fun with some cool character interactions , growth showing on each other and a couple cool fights . • Baby Saga - That's false equivalence , the scene u show just reveals Baby is a tsufurujin but nothing about his specific origin , he explains this later after sneaking into Vegeta's body and he's very much shocked . I don't understand why something as simple as regrowing his tail to bring out his dormant saiyan potential when the need arised , requires some foreshadowing , it came up when there wasn't any other option in sight for Goku to get stronger and just made sense since he was a kid again , foreshadowing can be used on a lot of stuff to make things a bit more cooler , but doesn't mean everything requires it and it's a problem to not have it . Elder kai just had an understanding of what the powerup would be calling it super saiyan 4 but he didn't go into any sort of detail about it so i don't understand how u say that like the reveal was simply spoiled , he just said if Goku could control his power he would become ssj4 and that's what he intended to do with the training but because they had to force his tail out and stop the training stuff went off the rails and now they had a mindless beast on their hands this wasn't how it was supposed to go , he just established a direction in what to aim for but he himself had no idea how to get there and only had a precautionary measure in mind cutting his tail to return his rationality having it as the last resort cuz then he wouldn't be able to beat Baby , so there was suspense and the process happened in an interesting , fitting and unexpected way finally bringing ssj4 in the picture . So he literally just spoiled the name which is the most generic thing ever that anyone would naturally come up with but didn't reveal anything about the form specifically not even that it'd have a smaller humanoid shape , it worked as a fine tease only increasing interest and suspense about how and when it was gonna happen . Almost nothing would be taken away from UI either if its name was teased in a similar fashion by establishing the mental state Goku needed to achieve for it . See u also mention stuff like " look , method " in comparison with UI while we did not know at all what Ssj4 was gonna look like either , and when u're comparing it to UI the more fair comparison is doing it with mastered version , as ssj4 is the mastered version of golden ozaru stage which came before it , and in that it was very well established how UI Goku was gonna get stronger and the reveal did not have a very unexpected element like at the time of ssj4. And then we can compare the initial stage too where golden ozaru was not expected at all , old kai just pulled out Goku's tail to bring out his dormant saiyan power which just didn't work as expected with Baby stating Goku hadn't gotten stronger at all even though the tail seemed to have fixed his stamina issue , with Old kai himself being confused . It was absolutely epic how that transformation started . This comes off as u already knowing what ssj4 is and then later forming this thought that just the name tease in that one line really damages the reveal or something , when it really just builds interest more than anything . • Super 17 arc - This is THE one bad arc of GT , but nope it's still clear cut not the worst of dragon ball , that spot goes to RoF if we're ignoring Copy Vegeta because its barely even worth remembering down to the concept . RoF has the nostalgia baiting with a generic revenge plot but it's even more repetitive for being the 3rd time of Frieza and with more nonsensical lazy asspulls than Super 17 arc. Also this thing about Baby not coming back , he's a parasite made out of completely artificial material with the inserted genes of king tsufuru in the end , so he shouldn't have a soul he doesn't have any naturally came into existence living material . • Shadow dragon arc - Not at all , Baby arc is clear cut the best of GT and one of the best stories in dragon ball . An interesting plot from the start developing more and more with Baby's backstory and journey to power while his mental state gets more unstable and unpredictable , putting Goku through pretty much the greatest test which transitions into ssj4 with the best narrative for a transformation while being most fitting for Goku perfectly placed in this arc to make such a good play on love vs hate , it had the hyping up of and giving their moments to the side characters in fights , the kais very involved and carrying , making Uub strongest at one point , Pan's persistence becoming the final push for the ssj4 , and everyone coming together in the end to beat Baby in the end , it brings plenty of stuff full circle in a very fitting way . Only story i'd put on the same level overall is Frieza saga . Shadow dragon arc had the cool themes going on with nature itself helping the good guys in the fights with a second chance and them taking good advantage of that to win but it just felt less polished and also didn't have involvement of much side characters before the ending few episodes . There is no moment in GT where Goku doesn't feel like himself , instead he only mostly feels like himself with a naturally more developed and experienced side which never comes off forced or anything , best version of Goku . This video implies dragon ball super does a better job at storytelling with Toriyama's involvement being till the end , i don't know exactly the way he had been involved , but either way , super was not it , the concepts of the story are not great by themselves and the depth in execution reaches shadow dragon saga level at its best , with dumbing down Goku to an unnecessary extent sometimes for plot convenience and sometimes just to make him the clown of a joke , straight regression moments from Vegeta like not giving him any spirit energy for spirit bomb while knowing the universe is at stake and later saying " arrogance is my pride " to Jiren with a straight face , Gohan still quitting training even after Buu saga , the introduction of as much of a nothing character like Zeno as the supreme authority already not being enough that he's made to direct meddle with the climax of an arc to turn it into a joke , the transformations aren't at fault for not matching ssj4 cuz u literally can't do saiyan forms and especially Goku better than it has , but they aren't even good in their own right . This recycled ssj lore for ssjg with a very lazy way of achievement which is getting even more common the more the series progresses , ssjb being just achieved off screen with it and UI both not following their own logic after being built up to be states that get stronger the calmer they are and remove all thoughts outside the fight still get stronger with a rage boost like any good ole ssj , ssj2 rehash but " rage " and with blue aura , no arc is as good storywise as baby arc , all it has is good animation peaks with modern animation . Like GT was mid if i gave it an average yet it's the best dragon ball series that came out after z , it's not some perfect masterpiece but it does land its meanings hard a good amount of times while being decently entertaining most of the time . Saying GT's ending would be just as good with Z is a pretty wild thing to say , considering Buu had nothing to do with Goku at all , while both Super 17 and shadow dragons had everything to do with him , they built up him being the centre of problems well and shadow dragon arc tying this way back to the problems having started with og dragon ball just made sense with Goku agreeing to depart from earth after having contributed a lot in this even if unintentionally . There's no GT ending without shadow dragon arc , and Super 17 wasn't good but it did do one part well being a prelude to shadow dragon arc bringing Gero and Mu to get revenge on Goku while showing the dragon balls getting cracked throughout it caused by the unstability they brought , didn't overstay its welcome and at least did something right working well as a set up .
@@robertjohnston7256 Must be tough lying about the canonicity of something both the original creator and the official studio have confirmed canon cope and seethe
I completely agree with your thoughts on the Black Star Dragon Ball Saga. It has a lot of potential, and I don’t think its as bad as many people make it out to be, but there are so many inconsistencies that made a serious mission like saving the Earth from detonation seem less important. Also, Pan was intolerable throughout it as nobody checked her on the danger she constantly put herself and everyone else in. Im gonna finish this video once I finish rewatching/scripting the rest of GT for future summaries, but I like your channel. Keep up the great work! 💯🔥
While a big role of Pan is to be intolerable, at some point (actually, a very specific episode which you may know) it would have been perfect to have Goku, or even Trunks if they feel like a serious Goku would be inconsistent here or whatever, to say what needs to be said to her. It is like grandpas to let their granddaughters do whatever, but I dont see how Trunks tolerated it, given his disposition. Isnt he head of Capsule Corp in GT?
@@thelightspeeddash6329Tell her what ? Dismiss her like a kid that he already was which only ever made her cause more trouble in trying to prove herself ? How much harm was it gonna do taking a little time and energy to just make her feel a part of things and feel like contributing to something when she said she wanted to ? His arc was running from his responsibilities passed down to him by his parent but learn to step up and do what needs to be done when stuck with two kids one too carefree and one too enthusiastic while being naive and inexperienced for their own good . In the beginning he just flew away from the window leaving stuff to his employees . Why would he continue treating Pan the same way when he saw her ready to give up , giving her a push towards running from responsibilities too like he did ? He encouraged her to continue on the journey and for what it's worth that was the right decision , that stubborn nature and persistence to keep trying is what saved Goku from dying as a golden ozaru later when he was attacking her and baby was soon about to be back with the same form to finish him, or save him again by distracting baby later till Trunks and others arrived , or save Vegeta by stalling Super 17 taking a more smart approach of taking Gero hostage , later overwhelm oceanus stopping her attack after figuring out the way to beat her when Goku was getting rekt . So no both characters have their little arcs they aren't just simply this position and a kid and act just according to that from the start .
You say goku in GT didn’t act like goku, but imo this goku was represented better in GT than super. Yes, he’s a kid throughout the show which he sounds and acts like it wasn’t obviously, but he still act like an older mature grown man. I mean he was with his nephew and granddaughter majority of the time and we know how goku acts around kids compared to vegeta who’s stern and a little aggressive. Goku on the other hand wouldn’t hurt a fly, which show his kindness towards friends especially family members. Then when he becomes ssj4 you can see his acts of being a grown man come out. He’s 50yrs to nearly 60yrs old who knows his responsibility, and acts very wise when it counts. He’s a grandfather who supposed to be a leader of a clan or a leader in general for the family which makes him reliable for many things y’know. These characters traits of maturity is something I can’t see in super goku. Again, what I’m saying is my personal opinion and I was just expressing my thoughts lol.
I love GT so much issues and all, I think it did good tho, but im not blind to its issues, but its just another fold on what makes dragon ball interesting.
Nobody knew goku was gonna be a damn ssj4. For all we knew Golden Oozaru was the transformation elder kai was talking about. Its the form that looks most like images of the original ssj after all
Elder mentioned mentioned the name ssj4 , but nothing in detail , not even that it was gonna have a smaller size and humanoid shape . Cuz he himself didn't know , when Goku was declared not stronger in the least in ssj3 after getting the tail back by Baby , Old kai was just as confused about how Goku wasn't stronger .
For me, the biggest problem was the Black Stars themselves. They were a nest of plotholes. Never detected or sensed before. No past Guardians harassing Pilaf. King Piccolo having to be told by Pilaf back when that Dragonballs even exist, when he would have been there for the BS. How would anyone know what they do unless they were used centuries ago, when no Earthling would have been able to fetch them back? As the Batman Forever meme goes, it just raises too many questions.
Well, all you said is true. GT is not a perfect Dragon Ball, but personally I don't hate this series. There was some really memorable and awesome moments in GT, but also there was some really annoying moments as well. For me GT is maybe like 5/10, where DBZ was 9/10 and DB was 7/10. I must say that I'm a part of Dragon Ball community that likes GT more then DBS. For me DBS is like 3/10. I also recommend watching Dragon Ball entirely in Japanese (with subtitles), as the English and other language versions are not 100% faithful to the original and change the sense of some dialogs.
He said some true stuff about shadow dragons and Super 17 but he got a lotta stuff wrong overall which i've corrected in my main comment . Also emphasising that dragon ball super is clear cut worse in terms of story and writing .
@@meariyogantari7833 exactly, to me it doesn’t make sense how a god suddenly wakes up out of nowhere and hunts down the super saiyan god, people argue that ssj4 transformation sucked but never talk about how lazy the ssg transformation was
Ultra Instinct literally gets foreshadowed during all of the training periods with Whis lol.. plus the stories about a Golden Great Ape have existed in the stories lore already
I actually hate UI. Anyone who is stronger can still easily hit Goku.... not even that simply being close in power already lets people easily hit Goku(at first it was auto dodge and it was cool but later anyone and everyone started destroying it). Which made the whole concept pointless and now it's just a power up essentially. But also this whole idea was dumb to begin with, Goku was learning to dodge on instinct even in db, then came ki sense that allowed to see and feel without actually seeing so you could dodge before attack goes through, then also Goku bragging how he can sense feelings and intent and feel changes in pressure so he can avoid things without seeing or knowing where they are coming from. Then came super and now Goku forgot he could already do things similar to UI. And not only that other shows were already using this same concept before dbs like observation haki in OP and precong in Naruto. UI was also not in AT original script so TOEI and Toyotaro just created something that looks cool but if you think about it, they just made Goku look dumber by creating UI.
@@will_9910 Dragon-ball-official That's the actual name of the site. Read/watch some interviews with Toyotaro. A lot of things in dbs were not in the original script, Toyotaro put fusion into Vegitto during Future Trunks saga just for hype, Jiren in the script is not that strong and required no new forms, he was meant to be defeated via teamwork(which did happen in the end in the anime). But since Toyotaro put fusion into previous saga(so did dbs anime) TOEI thought it will be underwhelming if they don't rise the level of opponents, they made jiren strong and asked AT to create a new form. AT also completely ignored those changes in Broly movie and based the movie as continuation of his script, which is why Jiren is said not to be strong in Broly movie and UI is never attempted or even mentioned.
Wait, so you prefer the forced and random Cell explaining his every plan and thought from jump not the gradual build up of Baby that you learn over the entire arc? LMAO. That’s literal story telling.
I know GT has a lot of problems, and I agree with you, it's no way near as good as the original. But are you saying that there are moments where Goku didn't seem like Goku? That's absolutely bullshit. Goku in GT is mature, which makes total sense, it's 15 years after the defeat of Majin Buu, c'mon. He still has his Goku moments, but he's more mature, and he knows when he needs to be serious. He's totally different from Super's Clownku, which is exactly the reason why I think Super is even worse than GT. At least they didn't turn Goku into a brainless monkey who only knows how to fight (I mean, sometimes he forgets even that, especially in the manga)
The way you discredit the ending of GT is cringe. It was great. GT Goku feels a lot more like Goku than Dragon Ball Super's Goku. Dragon Ball Super doesn't even feel like Dragon Ball. Feels like a Fan Fiction, and was worked on by Toyotaro, who made Dragon Ball AF, so makes sense.
Don't know what sort of logic made him think u can just slap it on Z though lol. Buu had absolutely nothing to do with Goku . Shadow dragons and Super 17 which at least did its job well in being prelude to it , did , where shadow dragon arc goes all the way back to the start of the franchise . There's no unintentional trouble caused by himself Goku needs to address at the end of Buu arc to depart from earth .
I like how this is a comprehensive breakdown! I dont necessarily agree with all of it but he makes a good point for what be believes. So much respect brother!
There weren't any. All you guys forget that Vegeta literally traveled the universe killing what remained of the Frieza Force after being revived and being transferred to earth. In his quest to obtain the SSJ form, he killed all of Frieza's men..... RoF started the asspull of the Frieza Force still operating....
GT had a good ideas but the execution was shoddy . they knew how to start a saga and how to end it. The problem is the middle part that was supposed to bridge the gap betwesn the beginning and ending of a saga. Unlike Super atleast GT felt like a natural sequel to Dragon Ball and Dragon ball Z . It was able to acknowledge both Dragon ball and Z and incorporate them into GT.
Why are people so quick to talk down on GT and find problems when really Super have the Biggest problems looking like a cartoon for kids 😒 GT is great people need to stop hating 🚮
because Super still executed their plot points fairly well even if some of them were a bit off. GT went pretty badly despite having great ideas that ruin the entire show multiple times.
GT...is not great lol. It is undoubtedly the most flawed series overall and it had the most promise post Z. When you can remove almost 2 entire arcs out of 4 and have the same story, that's a sign it is majorly flawed. And Super also has the best animation of a DB series of all time in the ToP. Sure, some parts are crappy but Z and GT both had that too. That's what they get for forcing animators to do like 10 months of work in half the time. The Super manga is also much better than the anime.
I haven't seen gt but in terms of writing i believe buu saga is the worst it's full of plot holes and character regression ( goku could of one taped vegeta who was a minion of babdi at the time meaning no egg charge, gohan got cocky like he did with cell, Vegeta didn't have to die because Goku had ssj 3 and chose not to show it off, it created fat buu as a character)
Yea It's the worst DBZ arc but even that was atleast better then Super android 17 arc from GT. God I hate that arc is just too many fillers alone is what I hate about let alone the story and the characters.
@@LuarIbriqi-qf4fhIt is the bad arc of GT alright , but uhh.. it did contribute . Its important purpose is working as a prelude to shadow dragon arc and it did that part well , bringing Mu and Gero for a revenge plot to set up Goku being the centre of problems while showing dragon balls getting cracked throughout it highlighting with King Yemma saying there was some great power interfering between the realms stopping him from sending Goku to earth from hell even when he was a living person . Then shenron being summoned to revive Krillin being when shadow dragon arc started . So yeah it did that one major thing well. Minor things u can see her and there but not really helping the overall arc or anything , it was fine seeing 18 play some important role again and Piccolo helping even from the afterlife being honourable again . Buu saga had really left him being a babysitter who just got humiliated about the things he had control over too . So again the arc overall is still bad but saying it didn't do anything for GT is just false .
@@humanman9920 Yea I know Mu and Geros revenge plot were in there and that concept should of been introduced at the shadow dragon arc, other than that the arc is pretty skipabale. Bringing evil 17 back was kinda lazy. 18 was ok, piccolo too, other then that there was nor much going on and half of the things in that arc don't make sense and is pretty bad in general. Even if you skip this arc it feels like you haven't missed much compared to the other arcs in GT.
I would say it's a two way street. Toei needed guidance, just as Toriyama did. At least as far as producing a semi serious DB series goes. A good example would be the Buu saga, Toriyama was essentially given free rain to do as he pleased. Also, Toriyama being in a perpetual state of burnout and or not remembering and or not caring didn't help matters.
19 is a cyborg, despite being called an "Android". They're not robots. 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 are all humans with robotic parts that give them strength, durability, Ki control and infinite stamina. But they're still just people. Baby is a robot. He's a proper android. The others have souls and are living beings. Baby isn't.
I love SSJ4. I think it's probably my favourite form. I love the Ozaru, and the Golden Ozaru. I think they're really cool, and I really like the "primal" forms over the glowy haired ones. Just my personal preference. But it's REALLY sad to see SSJ4 get stomped so hard upon it's first appearance. Here's this new, never before seen form that's supposed to be the best of the best and it just gets thrown around like it's Yamcha. It was so disappointing.
Hold up hold up. Very nice video my bro but I will not let you get away with 4:25, Goku having his tail was well established I'm DB that as a Kid every he had his tail he was stronger and when he didn't he was nerfed. They were clearly out of options in the Baby fight and just used it as desperate measure that might help just be all clear. The context is that alot of persons who watched GT never watched Z but OG DB back in the 2000s so the downgrade in tone angering fans in the beginning was understandable and i myself agree that the black star saga was boring come off the Z hype train. GT used alot OG DB elements so viewers definitely have to be careful watching. Not a direct build up but not lackluster.
i think the main problem was not Using Gohan, Goten, Piccolo and Vegeta like at all properly. 2nd problem was the pace, and 3rd was the color tone. it doesnt feel like db at all. Most of the shades are red and dark and overall gloomy. But i gotta say GT OST hits hard. Mark menza did a great job
1. Dragon ball was always like that 2. Vegeta stopped caring about the Saiyans and their history after they killed Frieza, now all he cares about is surpassing Kakarot 3. the Elder Kai saying there is a ssj 4 created hype and when it was finally revealed it exceeded everyone's expectations 4. Super 17 is fan service saga 5. i agree some dragons couldve looked cooler
Too much Goku time. They should have featured the Torch being passed to Goten, Trunks, Pan and Uub. Also the series overall had great ideals but poor execution
@humanman9920 bruh don't be obnoxious for the sake of it smh. You damn well know that the series could have been better balanced to give the other characters a chance to shine and do something significant especially in the shadow dragon arc where the different Z warriors could have taken down a specific dragon. We always don't need Goku saving the day.
My main criticisms of GT are pretty much similar to yours: -Inconsistent tone, inconsistent animation quality (which isnt exclusive to GT), inconsistent pacing -Too many characters got sidelined during the arcs (Way more people couldve been involved during the start of the shadow dragon arc for example, when it was monster of the week) -Super 17 basically being filler and the whole arc being underdeveloped. -Logical inconsistencies like the purpose of Piccolo's sacrifice, Baby not returning when the underworld opened up, etc. -Basically the entirety of the Dark Star Dragonballs arc. GT is just full of interesting concepts that are mostly poorly executed, but there are still some parts of it I actually respect more than Super lol
My biggest issues was LEAVING GOKU AS A KID! He couldn’t use certain techniques because he was a kid didn’t make sense. He struggle with SS3 and I don’t think he could use instant transmission. I can’t remember someone please correct me if I’m wrong. They should’ve made a wish to make Goku grown again.
Not sure about the Moro and beyond, but the only thing that really sucks is Goku Black in the anime and maybe the U6 Tournament. This is coming from a GT fan, too, but the Tournament of Power was so good
@@ncrveteranranger4454u really said " maybe " for U6 tournament ? That arc has one cool fight and no story. Tournament of power was mid , shadow dragon arc level story execution at best. No arc in dbs matched Baby arc let alone Ssj4 as a transformation , when it comes to Ssj4 it's not the fault of dbs u literally can't outdo that especially when it comes to Goku , but it doesn't even do its transformations well in their own right , its most important form UI gets stronger with rage boost like any good ole ssj after its done trynna build it up as a unique state that gets stronger the more calm and thoughtless one becomes , just like its build form ssjb did too , both contradicting their logic by a 180 with rage boosts.
The thing that i like so much in gt is the peak world building seriously the world building is insanely underrated shot i would say its one of the best in anime
The biggest issue is how they massacred Trunks honestly 😔 I know he’s not supposed to be like future trunks cuz that’s not him but even his younger self would cringe looking at him.
This guy is being weird, he clearly holds bitter feelings toward Dragon Ball GT, which is obvious from his unfair criticism and double standards. It’s one thing to dislike a series, but being unreasonable and biased about a show is just dishonest.
Okay , let's get things clear about something . Is ur issue actually that or u want to put it on that but it's the screen time u have a problem with ? Do u know Vegeta is explicitly stated the strongest by Baby in Baby arc ? Right after taking over Goten's body saying he can beat Goku with Vegeta's and right after taking over Vegeta saying he has obtained the strongest body in the universe ? Ssj3 Goku gets bullied by Ssj Baby Vegeta. In Super 17 arc it returns to the usual as all of dragon ball has it , with Vegeta putting up the second best fight at his strongest making Super 17 not so confident anymore in tanking his attacks and still almost getting hit by Vegeta , almost . Goku throwing him around the world after landing a punch in ssj then getting dominated too . Although even in that he did get a boost for being clearly stronger than Majuub who had given Super baby 2 a run for his money ( Super baby 2 being stated resembling ssj3 ). In shadow dragon arc after the crazy training he's shown doing Bulma states Vegeta might even surpass Ssj4 . When he finally comes to the battlefield he doesn't only achieve Ssj4 but fights Omega shenron on par with Ssj4 Goku catching him off guard a couple times although generally outclassed like Goku was too , in GT Perfect Files being explicitly stated as strong as Goku ssj4 . And this being after Goku had increased his full power in ssj4 by a lot with the help of others a few episodes earlier , which makes sense with the fact that before that Bulma had said Vegeta could surpass ssj4 , Goku had to get stronger taking everyone else's energy to be as strong as what Vegeta became by himself and matched Goku's latest stage . This is like the most respect he's been given in terms of power levels , he was an equal to Goku's final ssj4 . Ik the screentime and involvement by some other characters including Vegeta was less in black star db arc and shadow dragon arc , but Vegeta got absolutely more respect in power levels and forms than he was given in dbz . Bro literally stayed behind Goku the whole series after his ssj and even in the end was left in the dust with ssj2 not even getting the latest form let alone catch up to Goku's level . In GT , he was strongest in the beginning , he got surpassed in the middle and caught up again in the end with the latest form .
Im kinda confused by your point of ss4’s buildup being bad, your explanation for why UI was good sounded almost verbatim the same as why you said ss4 was bad? Like we didnt know what UI would look like therefore its better while we didnt know what ss4 would look like either the only difference being ss4 was a bit more guaranteed to happen
Ssj4 didn’t have any buildup that’s what’s bad about it, was quite literally an asspull. Ui actually had foreshadowing even if the name wasn’t actually used
@@Wizofmincraft Aight bet . Ssj4 first of all is the mastered version of Golden ozaru , the dormant saiyan potential was being built up since Old kai brought up pulling Goku's tail out for that . Then there was suspense around Goku still not getting stronger with the tail and losing again , before he expressed his frustration for not being able to protect earth while looking at it and that with the blutz waves coming from earth made the tail react and transformed him into golden ozaru , he rekt baby then lost sight of him destroying things at random , then Old kai said this is what he was worried about saying the training was for him to control his new power , but now they had a mindless beast on their hands and now Goku had to somehow gain back his rationality to become an ssj4 . The whole montage of raging while trying to calm down when he looked at earth but still struggling after the statement from Old kai is what's called build up , foreshadowing is different. UI did not have sh*t for build up at the time of introduction , no movements like that hinted at all , nothing about Goku actively trying to go further than his level by practicing what is the concept of UI , just absorbed a spirit bomb and learned a technique all of a sudden , definition of asspull , only got build up at all for mastered stage . And foreshadowing ? Golden ozaru goes all the way back to dbz when Vegeta talks of ssj , then ssj3 showing a glimpse of ozaru at its introduction implying it was moving closer to that . The dude just gaslighted ssj4's introduction for just the mention of a generic name which only works to build interest and suspense more than anything , then attach stuff like " didn't know what it'd look like , method of achieving it " with other forms . Ssj4 has by far the most buildup in the grand scheme of things , and at the time of introduction it was still better than UI without spoiling what exactly the form is .
@@humanman9920 I’m sorry to tell you but that didn’t change anything, ssj4 still isn’t foreshadowed in the slightest. The golden oozaru isn’t foreshadowing, that was a cool visual thing they used for the ssj3 thing and expanded on for ssj4. Foreshadowing means they did something to hint at a future plot point or event happening, nothing in z foreshadows what happens in gt. Old kai pulling out goku’s tail isn’t foreshadowing either.. he apparently knew it would lead to ssj4 but never said anything about that to goku so when it happened it seemed like a random occurrence. For foreshadowing to work you’d need to actually be able to say “oh this moment was hinting at so and so” like how whis talking about goku and vegeta moving autonomously was a hint at ui. Even if we didn’t know we can look back and say it was foreshadowing. Ssj4 did NOT have a moment like that despite whatever you want to believe. As for saying ui had no buildup that’s just entirely incorrect 💀. The spirit bomb acted as a catalyst for unlocking ui but goku himself was already close to it, that was the entire point of the training. The whole thing whis was building up to for goku and vegeta, which is what he explains when goku uses it in the tournament. Super saiyan 4 legitimately came out of goku’s ass and got a pisspoor attempt to make it seem as if it didn’t. And lastly super saiyan 4 does NOT have the most buildup of all the forms what the hell are you smoking? Ssj literally had a whole arc of foreshadowing, gohan going ssj2 was builtup all the way to the moment it actually happened. God was built up throughout the arc, hell even blue was built up to an extent with the training episode inbetween battle of gods and ressurection f 💀.
I always liked GT from an idea and nostalgia perspective. The show had unique concepts and designs (the "Dragon balls" being the final main villain was very poetic in my view) but in the end the Show failed on executing said ideas. Some points I always think that were very wasted/missing: The Black Star Saga: Goten should have went with them, which in turn would allow more moments for a team up with Trunks and a maybe see Adult Gotenks. Pan should have went Super Saiyan in the fight against the Sigma Force Baby Saga: We agree it's the most fleshed out arc but two of my main complains are: The lack of background information/foreshadow for SSj4 like you mentioned. Piccolo neither a bigger role in this arc to make his self sacrifice at the end weight more besides focusing on previous character nostalgia. Super 17 Saga: Just scratch the idea of the villains being able to create an android out of nothing in hell with no explanation...Instead the accumulation of evil energy in Hell reacts with the accumulation of evil energy in the Drago balls (foreshadow the upcoming arc) which opens a rift between Hell and the living and the previous villains show up. We could have a have an epic fight with Goku and Vegeta teaming up to fight Cell and Frieza. In a way, this could take ideas from the opening of Drago Ball GT final bout ^^> Maybe we could have Piccolo come back? I will explain later... Also, we don't kill Krillin although I loved the strange team up with 18 and Goku... Shadow Dragon Saga: The most simple idea... Instead of having Goku and Pan tackle all the Dragons, lets divide teams to tackle the Dragons... Goku should fight Nouva no matter what and Uub comes to assist him when Eis Shenron shows up. I think this fight would have a lot of Potential Goten and Trunks could team up to fight Oceanus? Pan and Giru could fight another one...maybe Haze? Pan could unlock SSJ2 in this battle OR even have Bra help her out? Rage Shenron could be a nice opponent for a good team up with 18 and Krillin... Naturon Shenron would be taken care of by Gohan and Piccolo if Piccolo came back, Naturon would then absorb Piccolo and we would get the same emotional fight scene. Syn Shenron would show up in West City to fight Vegeta who would be no match for him and is saved by Goku who goes SSJ4 causing Vegeta to question himself on how to achieve that form...He then remembers the bultz waves and talks to bulma about it. He then achieves ssj4 to help goku with Syn shenron who should be Omega Shenron by now The end of GT would play out the same. Any comments on these ideas?
you say GT lacks involvement from Toriyama, but Super suffers so much from that than GT. GT has interesting ideas and concepts, it builds upon the lore in DBZ such as SSJ4, Golden Ozaru, the savagery of the Saiyans, the overuse of Dragon Balls etc. and then we have Super, that slaps a new colour onto Super Saiyan every chapter and gives it a new name. it breaks DBZ lore, ruins characters and doesn't really add anything interesting, just filler. at least GT looks the part - the style is the continuation of DBZ. Super looks like ass and has no resemblance of Toriyama's style. L video take
GT is quite easily made better. Have the initial wish be something else but the stakes the same. Have either just Goku and Vegeta go to space to give their relationship more development like how they have in Super or have most of the side characters and yes, I would include Bulma in there go to space. With characters like Bulma they could easily have hostage situations or kidnappings and forcing her to work on some universe ending weapon or something. Keep the tone mainly more serious with light gags here and there and have them gathering all the DB's which transitions into the Baby arc. Have more interactions with Baby and the Saiyans and like you said, don't have Vegeta being a d**k about it. He's come all this way just to mock someone he knows is out for revenge because his people slaughtered his people. This is again, something Super did right with Vegeta and Granolahs interactions. FORESHADOW SSJ4. It doesn't even make sense as Goku should have just gone regular Oozaru so fix that too. Even have him as a SSJ when he transforms, it's that easy. Skip the Super 17 arc entirely and even have the Shadow dragon arc kick off with a peaceful time and something drastic happens that they need the DBs to fix. Maybe something they don't even have a hand in but maybe they did, like there were remnants of Baby that fell to earth and made people sick or something but it's irreversible. Even though he's dead his body itself is toxic to humans. This way you have an event that kickstarts the DBs being overused while having a small spell that includes a past enemy and ushers in a new one. Spend more time on the dragons themselves. Have Vegeta have his moment to transform in the same way Goku did or similar and make it emotional. Even have Goku unable to continue fighting and Vegeta picking up the slack. You can have Dende heal Goku and that's when fusion comes in because all hope is lost. Have Gogeta weaken Omega to the point it's just back and forth and then he puts Goku down leading the Genki Dama. Vegeta could even distract Omega while it's being charged instead of having that power a$$pull out of nowhere. Now THAT sounds like a series I would watch. Those 7 Super 17 episodes can go to the shadow dragon arc to establish their character.
The only things I like about GT is the baby saga. That was the best part of the show. And super Saiyan 4 I guess. But, I don't like the rest. Goku has too many moments of glory and the side characters are just there. At least in super, the side characters gained new forms. But, no Gotenks (excluding the fat form) whatsoever. GT didn't even try the Gotenks form. Pan was extremely annoying and GT had more dumber moments in it than super. It's funny how people praise this anime, when super treated other characters better. But, I can't deny that Goku was stupid in super. But, Goku turning into a child again was just as stupid.
No way you watched GT and didn’t know how or why things happened. You didn’t know how vegeta figured out gohan was possessed when bringing up king vegeta a character gohan wouldn’t know of… like super 17s arc was bad but you’re points a very odd and or wrong. Like growing gokus tail would make him stronger because of the great ape form pretty simple.
I want to agree with you, but there are 2 things I have to point out. First off, I'm pretty sure Gohan would know who King Vegeta is by that point in time. Of course, he did not meet him, but he knows who he is. Secondly, my issue was more so with Vegeta knowing Gohan was possessed by a Tuffle. That doesn't make much sense.
GT should have either wait for Toriyama to come out retirement first or just get a fan of Dragon Ball involved to know what it needs to be successful. I prefer and recommend the latter, of course.
Idk fans go too much into what if level stuff with fanservice that it compromises story . I'm glad we have the peak baby arc and the decent shadow dragon arc , baby arc literally doesn't need anything except longer fights and i don't exactly trust some random fan to not overdo fanservice in shadow dragon arc and focus on making a polished story with good depth .
Probably because everyone had similar problems with GT, GT wasnt liked much or well received there's a reason why it got cancelled and shortened to just over 60 episodes.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350Doesn't change the fact that a lot of stuff in this is false . " Everyone " doesn't make stuff right as far as that goes i see people being extra ignorant with this series cuz it's considered acceptable due to it not giving them much of a dopamine rush .
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350" hence why GT isn't here today " Where ? On a humiliating milking spree ? Lol GT done and ended dragon ball in what still is the best way while being overall the best story that released after z.
You can only criticise this show's characters if you watch it Subbed. Like Z the show is dubbed terribly and the sound track change was not as bad a the crap American rock synth soundtrack for Z but it's pretty bad in GT too. GT Subbed is fine In my opinion and character's actually act more like themselves and their progression is more consistent than Dragon Ball Super.
I've always had mixed feelings for GT since it aired. I started by liking it, then hating it for many years. As of now, I've made my peace with it and take it for what it is. A non-canon Dragon Ball-inspired series. GT had good things, but often ended up underachieving by bad pacing, lack of depth, and weird plot points. Goku becoming a kid was the major downside of GT. Then you have the boring first quarter of the show, followed by an amazing storyline with the Baby saga, that was unfortunately cut short. Then is the Super 17 saga. The only good thing about Super 17 was his character design. The whole thing would've been better off as a movie. By the Dragon saga, I'm just tired. The ending was great though. GT has great things, like SSJ4, even though it could've used a bit more depth in its origin. Also, the magic clothes kind of suck, to be honest. By now, Bulma should've made super stretchy suits that don't rip, just like the Saiyan Armor. Baby had so much potential, and I feel it should be retconed in Super at one point. For now, I will go with the multiverse explanation. GT happened in another universe. It's a cheap way out, but one that justifies its existence.
GT also felt like I was watching Power Rangers. What do I mean by this? Well, you know how sometimes it's a bit annoying when the rangers would fight villains in civilian form to fill up an episode's time slot, but you just wish they'd morph instead? That's how it felt watching most of GT when Trunks, Goku or whoever just didn't go Super Saiyan (or greater) from the start! Remember how Luud (Level 2) had Goku & Trunks on the run, but they went SS after getting stomped on and flipped the robo baby on its behind? Then for some reason, they revert back to base and just start kicking it over and over. Then after absorbing Pan, it gets to Level 3 and is WAY stronger. Yet, the boys still don't go Super Saiyan... WTF?!
" but u just wish " but that's ur weird expectations right ? Everything shouldn't be about power levels and they shouldn't run crying to their transformations at the first sight of trouble . They did use it when needed to against Luud , that still wasn't doing anything permanent and Luud was pretty much indestructible so they just saved their stamina as they should .
I never understood splitting Black star and Baby like😭 "in the black star saga they get 4 dragon balls and in Baby they get the rest but also fight Baby"
@@humanman9920 The android and cell saga are not split. They are only “split” in terms of what they’re called in order to differentiate them. If we’re talking TIMELINE and in universe wise they are not actually separate from each other in the slightest. The black star arc legitimately was it’s own thing, baby was something entirely different too.
really super 17 was an autistic arc cuz if there's a super 17 where tf is super 18 not to mention if 19 came back why couldn't they bring back 16? and just in general bringing back old characters just furthers the plot hole of not wishing back planet vegeta and the saiyan race, they could've even redeemed berter and jeice, so much missed potential because of shitty writing and shitty plot devices like zenkai boost and power levels
Bro this false, vegeta could sense baby energy and he showed up dude to the news, the Kia knew ss4 because goku only reached ss3 and the Kia can sense if some one has more hidden power, GT is made to be random your Trying to compare witch is the problem, you the only GT problem
GT's missed potential is why I'm interested in Daima personally. Despite its issues, Toriyama admired a lot of things in GT, and even Super borrowed a few things inspired by it, but with how Daima is built, I wouldn't be surprised if he explored ideas on his own, as he's done that multiple times with non-canon material. I hope that one day stuff like the Shadow Dragons or exploring the Tuffle race is gonna be expanded on in future DB material.
Super was a way bigger disappointment than GT imo. Super 17 arc sucked but i'd take that over the copy Vegeta arc any day which is a similar length to super 17. GT has the baby arc and the second half of the evil dragons arc while Super has no good arcs. Two crappy movie retellings 2 boring ass tournament arcs and the 1 arc in the show with an actual plot made no sense and had the worst end to an arc in DB history. Also the character regression in Super should be a crime lol
@@PeterStone-hy6ir Vegeta in GT has no development. The writers simply didn’t know how to use him and couldn’t write him consistently, he’s the worst version of Vegeta in the franchise. Super Vegeta has equal or maybe even more development than he does in Z.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 Disagree. When Goku is fighting Buu, Vegeta says Goku is number 1 and comes to terms with that. GT stays true to this, he's settled down with his family and he is even the one to suggest the ss4 fusion showing how far hes come. Super regresses his character at the beginning, chasing Goku and being arrogant so that he can have the same character arc all over again giving the illusion of character development. And he still hates the idea of fusion against Zamasu. And don't even get me started on Super vs GT Goku lol.
I mean that’s a little disingenuous. By manga standards, the retellings are only 4 out of 100+ chapters and for the anime it’s only about 20 out of 130+. You can like GT more, but let’s not lie about Super😂
Gt is trash, Super had more stakes, power level was more balance. Transformations were more better. Characters were true to the roots. GT is not even close to Super.
I've been a Dragon Ball fan since the 90s. Even teenage me knew there was something off about GT. People are welcome to like the series, especially if it is nostalgic for them, but from a writing and execution perspective, it is objectively bad. Super has its problems, most notably its time/budget allocation for the animation, but its writing, direction, and humor are exponentially superior to GT across every arc.
you've gotta have room temperature IQ to obsess about what's canon or not. DBS is technically canon, yet GT comes much closer to resemble original DB and DBZ both in style, quality and spirit.
@@dbstop9194 end of z? I would have went with it contradicts dbz as a whole as how super saiyan works now it tingle in backs how potara is limited now instead of permanent and bardock entire character.
One of my biggest problems is how Trunks behaves so similarly to Future Trunks. The Trunks of this timeline is meant to be arrogant and overconfident, taking after the father that the mild-mannered Future Trunks never knew.
GT is trash, Pan ruined it for me along with Goku beating everyone and noone else got stronger or had a transformation. Say what u will about Super but we got Gohan Beast, O Piccolo, Ultra Ergo and Yamcha finally fighting again.
I like that goku is brown in this series, and the rap intro was my shit as a kid watching nicktoons, toei trying to go back to dragon ball instead of going even harder on the Z vibe especially at the height of its popularity is wild to me
GT isnt perfect but it's not bad. A lot of your point are cap, as others have pointed out. And Super is literally hot garbage trash. I will take Super 17 over Battle of H Gods arc, Revival of F arc, Universe 6&7 tournament arc and Copy Vegeta Arc ANY day. ALL of them sucked and were terrible.
oh boy the gt fans are gonna come out in full force to defend their delicious garbage, it'll be interesting to see an og one of these or an opposite series where you talk about each saga's strengths
Let's not ignore the Pan-shaped elephant in the room. Pan is a disappointment. A character who is driven by a desire to not be babied around and prove herself as competent, yet most of the time ends up needing to be babied and is portrayed as incompetent, be it not picking up on Haze's ability and losing to the weakest Shadow Dragon, getting captured by Naturon, being held as a hostage by Eis, being turned into a doll and absorbed into Luud, going on her little Metal Gear mission to rescue Trunks and Goku on Rilldo's planet only to get whisked away during her confrotation with Giru, etc. etc. Her biggest contribution to the story is somehow allowing Goku to regain control of his sense as a Golden Great Ape so he could go SSJ4. Not actively doing anything. Just being seen by someone and somehow altering their mental state just from that.
pan is to me the most important on gt and my second favorite character on dragon ball because she was the tipical standing for the kids that start viewing dragon ball form the begining, that we were alot of impulsive and trying to resolve things with violence at the time i didnt see it but after years i feel the connection with her and at the end of the series she realy value the memories of the journey, and the moment that sell it to me was the last line that trunks say to her that we have to keep fighting and in the future the dragon ball wil return , wasthe thing that to this daystill make me tear eye, i like how she was dismisive of goku at first because in her memories he was this monolith was the strongest thing, and how because of her brashness she got in trouble and have to be rescue by goku, it was ok because even if she was strong but she was still a kid and the series saying that you can relay in others was something right, to me gt and by extention pan she narrative speaking are clunky but emotionally they were the best thing, just ask every 90s kids form mexico about the ending of gt most of them were cyrying literraly went the final episode of gt air in the summer of 2000, the again im a weird one that his favorite episode are the 2th one(the one of the amusment park) , and the last 2 ones.
Idk how you UA-camrs make these videos so long , like a 5 page essay, it’s redundant , run on, and we never get to the point of the title lol! Yall always be repeating the same shit 3x over, oh well haha
My only issue was in the Shadow Dragon arc. It’s 7 dragons, I feel like the other characters could’ve had shine and broke up into groups to collect the dragon balls
The dragons couldve been better too, and 3 of them didnt have to be a one and done villain
It's why SmugStick's What If Dragon Ball Videos were not only Enjoyable, but they make way better Ideas than GT did.
Most definitely. When I was watching gt with my brother, he even said Gohan is going to fight some shadow dragons. What happened next was lame as none of the other characters were there to fight any shadow dragons.
GT's ending is perfect. Not only it brings the whole story full circle by making Shenlong the ultimate enemy, it also gives a conclusion to Goku's journey which harkens back to Journey to the West, with him ascending to a higher plane of existence.
The infamous dub where Bulma mentioned "Super Saiyan 5" became so controversial
Lol I remember that. Were you watching on adult swim too?
Blame it all on the Spanish Magazine Article about that fake Super Saiyan 5 Transformation caused an Uproar on the Internet.
the designs in GT though are still my favorite
I disagree with a lot of your points.
Back Star Saga - I personally think the tones worked fine. My real issue is the inconsistent screen time when it came to them visiting worlds. Some lasted a decent while, where we got to learn about the inhabitants and their planet... while others were barely explored at all.
Baby Saga - 100% disagree. Cell had a nice mystery to him, but most of the relevant information we got was him literally just... telling us. Baby's build up was gradual, the heroes kept encountering him and each time he appeared, he became more and more dangerous. We even saw his gradual takeover from Earth and felt the tension of when Goku and Co. Arrived to an affected world. Baby Saga had some issues, but Baby himself was done amazingly.
We also had like... no idea how SSJ4 looked like. We barely got information. UI is the same. Most of UI's build-up was done in TOP. The anime had like... one or two scenes prior to kinda hint at it.
When I first watched GT, I did not expect SSJ4. I assumed Golden Great Ape was the peak, especially since it was cooking Baby.
I don't really have much issue with the Saga. Outside of Majuub meaning jack squat...
Super 17 - Every issue is the pacings fault. I hate how the characters barely did much outside of Goku. And the whole hell segment was... ehh.
Shadow Dragon Saga - Mostly agree. 7 Dragons, really wish each was handled by a different character. There's already a power hierarchy, with Haze being weaker than Base Goku (for example), so they could've easily had other characters team up against five shadow dragons while Goku fought Nouva.
" Majuub meaning jack squat " while he's literally the key contributor in Baby's defeat right behind Goku .
@@humanman9920i believe he is refers to when majuub had no use after the baby arc
He got diffed by s17
And barely did any of value during the shadow dragon arc
@@hbshadow8981He literally said that in the Baby saga section before Super 17 arc saying " issue with *the saga* " dude read it again . People just forget stuff and downplay characters . And no even in shadow dragon arc he was the one who held off Syn shenron for Goku to get increased full power ssj4 if it weren't for him Syn was gonna finish them there .
I highly disagree with your Cell assertion simply due to he didn't just say what he did. There were driving factors behind it. The biggest exposition we get from him is how it is simply because Piccolo tricked him into divulging the info. And this was after we didn't know who he was, why Kami was so scared, why he could use the Kamehameha and why he had others ki. It was done very well and gave the audience what they needed and then went from there. It's like "oh hey guys, we've got to stop this thing before he gets to absorb the androids." THEN the arc really kicks off. Honestly, blame it on the editors shaming 17 through 20 but Cell's exposition was well handled in my opinion.
I also disagree with the UI comparison to the SSJ4 handling. UI was foreshadowed since the FnF movie and Whis gave explanations from there to the ToP but never said how to achieve it. We didn't even know if Goku would. SSJ4 was literally their end goal so we knew it would be achieved by Goku.
@humanman9920 You're right about the Baby Saga, to an extent. The issue isn't that Majuub did NOTHING. It's that in the grand scheme of things, he was underwhelming.
Baby Saga had him do very little. He had about two scenarios for himself, and while they were pleasant, he ultimately fell back. I can excuse the Baby Saga because he at least put on a solid fight.
I draw the line in the Shadow Dragon Saga. I'm genuinely hunting for his scene, and the best I got was him putting Omega in a full Nelson for a few seconds before, once again, being sidelined. Majuub peaked in the Baby Saga and fell off soon after. Which is, again, a story problem/powerscaling problem because he HAD the ability to shine in the Shadow Dragon Saga, but all the screen time was given to Goku and Pan. (Do not talk to me about downplaying because I am the 1% who believes GT can stand up to Super)
1. The idea that Toriyama had absolutely no say or thoughts with GT is cap. He drew illustration and gave general ideas for each arc.
2. The characters in GT actually feel like progressed characters unlike their Super counterparts
Yes because GT takes place after the end of the DB manga.
No not for each arc. Just the beginning. And no they are a sad shell of their potential. Look my boy Gohan training and too hesitant to run them hands. Like I knew he has. And instead of overcoming their challenges almost everyone in GT falls to them. Its sad.
@@AstraFulminous Absolutely not . Gohan didn't want to hurt Goten yet he schooled him in base form and only even got baited into turning ssj when Baby Goten was about to do final explosion and " destroy everything " . And Gohan is the only one who i wanted a bit more from because he's Gohan of course , rest of the characters already did good as they were , ik its popular to gaslight all GT characters into nothingness but that's far from facts . Goten and Trunks are easily the best version of themselves any day of the week from every angle . Vegeta even with the less screen time never got this much respected not just in character development but power wise too , being explicitly established the strongest in the beginning then , going back to the second spot as always in Super 17 arc but still having grown being easily stronger than Majuub there , and catching up not only to the form ssj4 in shadow dragon arc after the extra intense training but specifically to Goku's level which was actually increased by a mile a few episodes earlier , fighting Omega on par with him and catching him off guard a couple times , being explicitly stated equally strong as Goku in GT Perfect Files , makes sense why Bulma said Vegeta could even surpass ssj4 cuz at that time Goku hadn't gotten increased full power with others help , Vegeta got there on his own training . Uub being the absolute MVP in baby arc right behind Goku being by far the strongest at one point giving Super baby 2 a run for his money then coming back by reversing the chocolate beam which Buu never could revealing he got hit by it deliberately in the first place to wait and strike at the right moment , saving everyone from getting rekt while trying to restore ssj4 Goku's power and holding off Golden ozaru Baby long enough , coming back in shadow dragon arc again holding off Syn shenron long enough for Goku to get increased full power ssj4 . 18 being important once again , Piccolo being brought back up even with the less screentime doing sh*t everytime he showed up instead of being the babysitter joke like in Buu saga who got humiliated on even the things he could control . Pan not only beating one of the sigma force members after rage awakening who earlier a holding back Goku had trouble hitting because he had adapted all their past battle data , but beating one of the shadow dragons later when Goku was endlessly getting rekt by Oceanus . Nobody failed nothing except Gohan to some extent . He should've done a bit more shadow dragon arc and that would've been perfect , cuz everyone got their moments in baby arc including him and his personality with the level headedness he showed throughout the show was handled perfectly . The most goated out of them was Vegeta catching upto Goku again in the end after directly establishing he was still gonna get stronger and see what his limits were without comparing to Goku .
@@humanman9920Look you can say that to yourself all you want.
However most of the time including in the moments you are mentioning the characters are either being: defeated, involved in way too much mind control at cost to them never really overcoming the situation they themselves got within on their own, endimg up stalling for someone else to resolve their challenges instead of actively being ready to try and defeat the opponents themselves.
even into the point where, at times they encourage each other not to get involved due to the fear of getting in the way even though they could really use all the help they could. And only doubling back afterwards.
Which either path could have been a staple if the actions themselves weren't also being nullified by a lack of greater impact to the villian's goal plus their own and also at times very the allies they are working to assist, due to them not actively using the opportunities given to them more effectively to begin with. And also existed alongside the various thematic loses they also ended up taking in an addition to all of the other problems they faced. Its a sad sight. You feel bad to see it.
this is a lie and you clearly got confused with super. toriyama has actually stated what his involvement with gt was. and no character feels any more developed in gt than super because no character other than goku gets any character time in the show, and he explicitly has not changed and in fact regressed. the most you get is vegeta who is the exact same as super vegeta except worse because he gave up doing anything but gets ssj4 for literally nothing unlike super vegeta who forces himself to keep up with goku and earns everything he is given
I think GT going back to kid goku was weird because in the west it wasnt nostalgia since we got dragonball after Z
When I was first getting into Dragon Ball, that always confused me. Since here in the West we got the different Dragon Ball series in a bizarre order (Z, GT, and THEN the original DB) I was really struggling to understand what the heck was going on. And because I wasn't watching it religiously, and because there was so much content, there were a lot of things that I missed.
Case in point, and I'm going to sound like a complete idiot here, when I first got into the series, I wasn't aware that Saiyans had Monkey Tails. I missed the episode of GT where Goku got his Tail pulled out, so I had absolutely no idea why he suddenly had a Tail. I just knew that it had something to do with his Super Saiyan 4 transformation. Then when I saw the advertisements for Dragon Ball, I originally thought that it was continuing on from GT.
Heck, even when GT was first announced, I thought that Goku was Goten, and that he was going to be the main character. Man, the fact that I got into this series in the first place is a miracle.
• Black star db saga - I never had much issue with its tone, its dragon ball's unique charm creating goofy comedic scenes in the midst of some serious fights or characters being casual around way weaker ones , it's set up well in the first episode when Goku is shown just taking it easy and enjoying life not instantly showing urgency to fix any problems , it just seems natural that he takes it easy whenever something doesn't pose much of a threat , and when it does the tone gets more serious as it should , only problem it had was a couple episodes having these specific scenes with slow pacing which got boring , but most of it was fun with some cool character interactions , growth showing on each other and a couple cool fights .
• Baby Saga - That's false equivalence , the scene u show just reveals Baby is a tsufurujin but nothing about his specific origin , he explains this later after sneaking into Vegeta's body and he's very much shocked .
I don't understand why something as simple as regrowing his tail to bring out his dormant saiyan potential when the need arised , requires some foreshadowing , it came up when there wasn't any other option in sight for Goku to get stronger and just made sense since he was a kid again , foreshadowing can be used on a lot of stuff to make things a bit more cooler , but doesn't mean everything requires it and it's a problem to not have it .
Elder kai just had an understanding of what the powerup would be calling it super saiyan 4 but he didn't go into any sort of detail about it so i don't understand how u say that like the reveal was simply spoiled , he just said if Goku could control his power he would become ssj4 and that's what he intended to do with the training but because they had to force his tail out and stop the training stuff went off the rails and now they had a mindless beast on their hands this wasn't how it was supposed to go , he just established a direction in what to aim for but he himself had no idea how to get there and only had a precautionary measure in mind cutting his tail to return his rationality having it as the last resort cuz then he wouldn't be able to beat Baby , so there was suspense and the process happened in an interesting , fitting and unexpected way finally bringing ssj4 in the picture . So he literally just spoiled the name which is the most generic thing ever that anyone would naturally come up with but didn't reveal anything about the form specifically not even that it'd have a smaller humanoid shape , it worked as a fine tease only increasing interest and suspense about how and when it was gonna happen . Almost nothing would be taken away from UI either if its name was teased in a similar fashion by establishing the mental state Goku needed to achieve for it .
See u also mention stuff like " look , method " in comparison with UI while we did not know at all what Ssj4 was gonna look like either , and when u're comparing it to UI the more fair comparison is doing it with mastered version , as ssj4 is the mastered version of golden ozaru stage which came before it , and in that it was very well established how UI Goku was gonna get stronger and the reveal did not have a very unexpected element like at the time of ssj4. And then we can compare the initial stage too where golden ozaru was not expected at all , old kai just pulled out Goku's tail to bring out his dormant saiyan power which just didn't work as expected with Baby stating Goku hadn't gotten stronger at all even though the tail seemed to have fixed his stamina issue , with Old kai himself being confused . It was absolutely epic how that transformation started . This comes off as u already knowing what ssj4 is and then later forming this thought that just the name tease in that one line really damages the reveal or something , when it really just builds interest more than anything .
• Super 17 arc - This is THE one bad arc of GT , but nope it's still clear cut not the worst of dragon ball , that spot goes to RoF if we're ignoring Copy Vegeta because its barely even worth remembering down to the concept . RoF has the nostalgia baiting with a generic revenge plot but it's even more repetitive for being the 3rd time of Frieza and with more nonsensical lazy asspulls than Super 17 arc. Also this thing about Baby not coming back , he's a parasite made out of completely artificial material with the inserted genes of king tsufuru in the end , so he shouldn't have a soul he doesn't have any naturally came into existence living material .
• Shadow dragon arc - Not at all , Baby arc is clear cut the best of GT and one of the best stories in dragon ball . An interesting plot from the start developing more and more with Baby's backstory and journey to power while his mental state gets more unstable and unpredictable , putting Goku through pretty much the greatest test which transitions into ssj4 with the best narrative for a transformation while being most fitting for Goku perfectly placed in this arc to make such a good play on love vs hate , it had the hyping up of and giving their moments to the side characters in fights , the kais very involved and carrying , making Uub strongest at one point , Pan's persistence becoming the final push for the ssj4 , and everyone coming together in the end to beat Baby in the end , it brings plenty of stuff full circle in a very fitting way . Only story i'd put on the same level overall is Frieza saga . Shadow dragon arc had the cool themes going on with nature itself helping the good guys in the fights with a second chance and them taking good advantage of that to win but it just felt less polished and also didn't have involvement of much side characters before the ending few episodes .
There is no moment in GT where Goku doesn't feel like himself , instead he only mostly feels like himself with a naturally more developed and experienced side which never comes off forced or anything , best version of Goku .
This video implies dragon ball super does a better job at storytelling with Toriyama's involvement being till the end , i don't know exactly the way he had been involved , but either way , super was not it , the concepts of the story are not great by themselves and the depth in execution reaches shadow dragon saga level at its best , with dumbing down Goku to an unnecessary extent sometimes for plot convenience and sometimes just to make him the clown of a joke , straight regression moments from Vegeta like not giving him any spirit energy for spirit bomb while knowing the universe is at stake and later saying " arrogance is my pride " to Jiren with a straight face , Gohan still quitting training even after Buu saga , the introduction of as much of a nothing character like Zeno as the supreme authority already not being enough that he's made to direct meddle with the climax of an arc to turn it into a joke , the transformations aren't at fault for not matching ssj4 cuz u literally can't do saiyan forms and especially Goku better than it has , but they aren't even good in their own right . This recycled ssj lore for ssjg with a very lazy way of achievement which is getting even more common the more the series progresses , ssjb being just achieved off screen with it and UI both not following their own logic after being built up to be states that get stronger the calmer they are and remove all thoughts outside the fight still get stronger with a rage boost like any good ole ssj , ssj2 rehash but " rage " and with blue aura , no arc is as good storywise as baby arc , all it has is good animation peaks with modern animation . Like GT was mid if i gave it an average yet it's the best dragon ball series that came out after z , it's not some perfect masterpiece but it does land its meanings hard a good amount of times while being decently entertaining most of the time .
Saying GT's ending would be just as good with Z is a pretty wild thing to say , considering Buu had nothing to do with Goku at all , while both Super 17 and shadow dragons had everything to do with him , they built up him being the centre of problems well and shadow dragon arc tying this way back to the problems having started with og dragon ball just made sense with Goku agreeing to depart from earth after having contributed a lot in this even if unintentionally . There's no GT ending without shadow dragon arc , and Super 17 wasn't good but it did do one part well being a prelude to shadow dragon arc bringing Gero and Mu to get revenge on Goku while showing the dragon balls getting cracked throughout it caused by the unstability they brought , didn't overstay its welcome and at least did something right working well as a set up .
You have no life😂
@@robertjohnston7256 Projecting much ? Must be tough being an npc
@@humanman9920 must be tough desperately getting people to like that non canon garbageTV. Sorry I mean gt😂
@@robertjohnston7256 Must be tough lying about the canonicity of something both the original creator and the official studio have confirmed canon cope and seethe
@@humanman9920 the projecting is real😂
The interactions between 17 and 18 was the highlight, for me
I completely agree with your thoughts on the Black Star Dragon Ball Saga. It has a lot of potential, and I don’t think its as bad as many people make it out to be, but there are so many inconsistencies that made a serious mission like saving the Earth from detonation seem less important. Also, Pan was intolerable throughout it as nobody checked her on the danger she constantly put herself and everyone else in.
Im gonna finish this video once I finish rewatching/scripting the rest of GT for future summaries, but I like your channel. Keep up the great work! 💯🔥
Wait, are yall two brothers??? Sound the same
I can confirm that we are not brothers😂
@@ItsBigTune😂😂😂
While a big role of Pan is to be intolerable, at some point (actually, a very specific episode which you may know) it would have been perfect to have Goku, or even Trunks if they feel like a serious Goku would be inconsistent here or whatever, to say what needs to be said to her. It is like grandpas to let their granddaughters do whatever, but I dont see how Trunks tolerated it, given his disposition. Isnt he head of Capsule Corp in GT?
@@thelightspeeddash6329Tell her what ? Dismiss her like a kid that he already was which only ever made her cause more trouble in trying to prove herself ? How much harm was it gonna do taking a little time and energy to just make her feel a part of things and feel like contributing to something when she said she wanted to ?
His arc was running from his responsibilities passed down to him by his parent but learn to step up and do what needs to be done when stuck with two kids one too carefree and one too enthusiastic while being naive and inexperienced for their own good . In the beginning he just flew away from the window leaving stuff to his employees .
Why would he continue treating Pan the same way when he saw her ready to give up , giving her a push towards running from responsibilities too like he did ? He encouraged her to continue on the journey and for what it's worth that was the right decision , that stubborn nature and persistence to keep trying is what saved Goku from dying as a golden ozaru later when he was attacking her and baby was soon about to be back with the same form to finish him, or save him again by distracting baby later till Trunks and others arrived , or save Vegeta by stalling Super 17 taking a more smart approach of taking Gero hostage , later overwhelm oceanus stopping her attack after figuring out the way to beat her when Goku was getting rekt .
So no both characters have their little arcs they aren't just simply this position and a kid and act just according to that from the start .
You say goku in GT didn’t act like goku, but imo this goku was represented better in GT than super. Yes, he’s a kid throughout the show which he sounds and acts like it wasn’t obviously, but he still act like an older mature grown man. I mean he was with his nephew and granddaughter majority of the time and we know how goku acts around kids compared to vegeta who’s stern and a little aggressive. Goku on the other hand wouldn’t hurt a fly, which show his kindness towards friends especially family members. Then when he becomes ssj4 you can see his acts of being a grown man come out. He’s 50yrs to nearly 60yrs old who knows his responsibility, and acts very wise when it counts. He’s a grandfather who supposed to be a leader of a clan or a leader in general for the family which makes him reliable for many things y’know. These characters traits of maturity is something I can’t see in super goku. Again, what I’m saying is my personal opinion and I was just expressing my thoughts lol.
Facts this guy don’t even know what he talking about he’s just bias GT hater
Super getting Goku wrong doesn't mean GT got him right. I like GT, granted, I like DBZ and DB more but I like the GT still
I love GT so much issues and all, I think it did good tho, but im not blind to its issues, but its just another fold on what makes dragon ball interesting.
Nobody knew goku was gonna be a damn ssj4. For all we knew Golden Oozaru was the transformation elder kai was talking about. Its the form that looks most like images of the original ssj after all
Elder mentioned mentioned the name ssj4 , but nothing in detail , not even that it was gonna have a smaller size and humanoid shape . Cuz he himself didn't know , when Goku was declared not stronger in the least in ssj3 after getting the tail back by Baby , Old kai was just as confused about how Goku wasn't stronger .
Yes, Toriyama’s great writing that has lead to multiple inconsistencies in the story and various retcons. How lovely.
The idea of baby saha and shadow dragon saga is really brilliant and its actually an important canon material to
For me, the biggest problem was the Black Stars themselves. They were a nest of plotholes. Never detected or sensed before. No past Guardians harassing Pilaf. King Piccolo having to be told by Pilaf back when that Dragonballs even exist, when he would have been there for the BS. How would anyone know what they do unless they were used centuries ago, when no Earthling would have been able to fetch them back? As the Batman Forever meme goes, it just raises too many questions.
I love Dragonball GT
Cool
Based
Well, all you said is true. GT is not a perfect Dragon Ball, but personally I don't hate this series. There was some really memorable and awesome moments in GT, but also there was some really annoying moments as well. For me GT is maybe like 5/10, where DBZ was 9/10 and DB was 7/10. I must say that I'm a part of Dragon Ball community that likes GT more then DBS. For me DBS is like 3/10.
I also recommend watching Dragon Ball entirely in Japanese (with subtitles), as the English and other language versions are not 100% faithful to the original and change the sense of some dialogs.
He said some true stuff about shadow dragons and Super 17 but he got a lotta stuff wrong overall which i've corrected in my main comment . Also emphasising that dragon ball super is clear cut worse in terms of story and writing .
theres no way people think super goku is better than gt goku, his dialogue feels so forced in super
+ at the end of the day, gt had a great plan with its story, only failed to execute it. i still prefer it over super ANY day
Gt is also had important story telling that really fit on Z
@@meariyogantari7833 exactly, to me it doesn’t make sense how a god suddenly wakes up out of nowhere and hunts down the super saiyan god, people argue that ssj4 transformation sucked but never talk about how lazy the ssg transformation was
GT( Goku Time) sucks so muuuch
dbs manga goku isnt as bad as anime goku
Ultra Instinct literally gets foreshadowed during all of the training periods with Whis lol.. plus the stories about a Golden Great Ape have existed in the stories lore already
I actually hate UI. Anyone who is stronger can still easily hit Goku.... not even that simply being close in power already lets people easily hit Goku(at first it was auto dodge and it was cool but later anyone and everyone started destroying it). Which made the whole concept pointless and now it's just a power up essentially. But also this whole idea was dumb to begin with, Goku was learning to dodge on instinct even in db, then came ki sense that allowed to see and feel without actually seeing so you could dodge before attack goes through, then also Goku bragging how he can sense feelings and intent and feel changes in pressure so he can avoid things without seeing or knowing where they are coming from. Then came super and now Goku forgot he could already do things similar to UI.
And not only that other shows were already using this same concept before dbs like observation haki in OP and precong in Naruto.
UI was also not in AT original script so TOEI and Toyotaro just created something that looks cool but if you think about it, they just made Goku look dumber by creating UI.
@@My_Master_Waves I never knew UI wasn't in the original script. Can I get a source please?
@@will_9910 Dragon-ball-official
That's the actual name of the site. Read/watch some interviews with Toyotaro. A lot of things in dbs were not in the original script, Toyotaro put fusion into Vegitto during Future Trunks saga just for hype, Jiren in the script is not that strong and required no new forms, he was meant to be defeated via teamwork(which did happen in the end in the anime). But since Toyotaro put fusion into previous saga(so did dbs anime) TOEI thought it will be underwhelming if they don't rise the level of opponents, they made jiren strong and asked AT to create a new form.
AT also completely ignored those changes in Broly movie and based the movie as continuation of his script, which is why Jiren is said not to be strong in Broly movie and UI is never attempted or even mentioned.
Wait, so you prefer the forced and random Cell explaining his every plan and thought from jump not the gradual build up of Baby that you learn over the entire arc? LMAO. That’s literal story telling.
I know GT has a lot of problems, and I agree with you, it's no way near as good as the original. But are you saying that there are moments where Goku didn't seem like Goku? That's absolutely bullshit. Goku in GT is mature, which makes total sense, it's 15 years after the defeat of Majin Buu, c'mon. He still has his Goku moments, but he's more mature, and he knows when he needs to be serious. He's totally different from Super's Clownku, which is exactly the reason why I think Super is even worse than GT. At least they didn't turn Goku into a brainless monkey who only knows how to fight (I mean, sometimes he forgets even that, especially in the manga)
The way you discredit the ending of GT is cringe. It was great. GT Goku feels a lot more like Goku than Dragon Ball Super's Goku. Dragon Ball Super doesn't even feel like Dragon Ball. Feels like a Fan Fiction, and was worked on by Toyotaro, who made Dragon Ball AF, so makes sense.
Don't know what sort of logic made him think u can just slap it on Z though lol. Buu had absolutely nothing to do with Goku . Shadow dragons and Super 17 which at least did its job well in being prelude to it , did , where shadow dragon arc goes all the way back to the start of the franchise . There's no unintentional trouble caused by himself Goku needs to address at the end of Buu arc to depart from earth .
Facts
@@humanman9920of course crybaby would be here😂
It wasn't that great don't get me wrong it wasn't bad or anything it was just okay GT definitely had problems
@@robertjohnston7256 As we can see the butthurt species has arrived in its natural habitat
I like how this is a comprehensive breakdown! I dont necessarily agree with all of it but he makes a good point for what be believes. So much respect brother!
When it came to the Black Star Dragonball Saga, the story could have included remnants of the Frieza force operations following DBZ.
There weren't any. All you guys forget that Vegeta literally traveled the universe killing what remained of the Frieza Force after being revived and being transferred to earth. In his quest to obtain the SSJ form, he killed all of Frieza's men..... RoF started the asspull of the Frieza Force still operating....
GT stands for Goku Time 😂
Why do the character designs in the thumbnail look so clean together? 🔥
Right?! He’s really good with his thumbnails. Also, whats up bro 😂💯
@@justinsden Ay, it's the goat! Been a minute since I've commented on one of your shorts, really gotta get back on the "under 1 minute club". 🤔
GT had a good ideas but the execution was shoddy . they knew how to start a saga and how to end it. The problem is the middle part that was supposed to bridge the gap betwesn the beginning and ending of a saga.
Unlike Super atleast GT felt like a natural sequel to Dragon Ball and Dragon ball Z . It was able to acknowledge both Dragon ball and Z and incorporate them into GT.
Why are people so quick to talk down on GT and find problems when really Super have the Biggest problems looking like a cartoon for kids 😒 GT is great people need to stop hating 🚮
because Super still executed their plot points fairly well even if some of them were a bit off.
GT went pretty badly despite having great ideas that ruin the entire show multiple times.
GT...is not great lol. It is undoubtedly the most flawed series overall and it had the most promise post Z. When you can remove almost 2 entire arcs out of 4 and have the same story, that's a sign it is majorly flawed. And Super also has the best animation of a DB series of all time in the ToP. Sure, some parts are crappy but Z and GT both had that too. That's what they get for forcing animators to do like 10 months of work in half the time. The Super manga is also much better than the anime.
I need to have you on the channel😂
I haven't seen gt but in terms of writing i believe buu saga is the worst it's full of plot holes and character regression ( goku could of one taped vegeta who was a minion of babdi at the time meaning no egg charge, gohan got cocky like he did with cell, Vegeta didn't have to die because Goku had ssj 3 and chose not to show it off, it created fat buu as a character)
Yea It's the worst DBZ arc but even that was atleast better then Super android 17 arc from GT. God I hate that arc is just too many fillers alone is what I hate about let alone the story and the characters.
@@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh Super 17 arc is so bad it's actually funny.
@@thelightspeeddash6329 Yea super 17 arc is an arc that almost didn't contribute at the GT timeline at all. Just a waste of time when I first saw it.
@@LuarIbriqi-qf4fhIt is the bad arc of GT alright , but uhh.. it did contribute . Its important purpose is working as a prelude to shadow dragon arc and it did that part well , bringing Mu and Gero for a revenge plot to set up Goku being the centre of problems while showing dragon balls getting cracked throughout it highlighting with King Yemma saying there was some great power interfering between the realms stopping him from sending Goku to earth from hell even when he was a living person . Then shenron being summoned to revive Krillin being when shadow dragon arc started . So yeah it did that one major thing well. Minor things u can see her and there but not really helping the overall arc or anything , it was fine seeing 18 play some important role again and Piccolo helping even from the afterlife being honourable again . Buu saga had really left him being a babysitter who just got humiliated about the things he had control over too .
So again the arc overall is still bad but saying it didn't do anything for GT is just false .
@@humanman9920 Yea I know Mu and Geros revenge plot were in there and that concept should of been introduced at the shadow dragon arc, other than that the arc is pretty skipabale. Bringing evil 17 back was kinda lazy. 18 was ok, piccolo too, other then that there was nor much going on and half of the things in that arc don't make sense and is pretty bad in general. Even if you skip this arc it feels like you haven't missed much compared to the other arcs in GT.
Its like good and bad
I remember watching GT and I could never get into it fully and I think this explains why. But I think I need to watch it again as an adult to confirm.
I would say it's a two way street. Toei needed guidance, just as Toriyama did. At least as far as producing a semi serious DB series goes. A good example would be the Buu saga, Toriyama was essentially given free rain to do as he pleased. Also, Toriyama being in a perpetual state of burnout and or not remembering and or not caring didn't help matters.
Yeah, you’re the only weirdo who discredits GT’s ending.
Brother really missed a central point of shadow dragon arc
@@humanman9920get a life😂
Excellent video
Solid video man, I love looking back on these old sagas.
19 is a cyborg, despite being called an "Android". They're not robots. 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 are all humans with robotic parts that give them strength, durability, Ki control and infinite stamina. But they're still just people. Baby is a robot. He's a proper android. The others have souls and are living beings. Baby isn't.
I love SSJ4. I think it's probably my favourite form. I love the Ozaru, and the Golden Ozaru. I think they're really cool, and I really like the "primal" forms over the glowy haired ones. Just my personal preference.
But it's REALLY sad to see SSJ4 get stomped so hard upon it's first appearance. Here's this new, never before seen form that's supposed to be the best of the best and it just gets thrown around like it's Yamcha. It was so disappointing.
Hold up hold up. Very nice video my bro but I will not let you get away with 4:25, Goku having his tail was well established I'm DB that as a Kid every he had his tail he was stronger and when he didn't he was nerfed. They were clearly out of options in the Baby fight and just used it as desperate measure that might help just be all clear. The context is that alot of persons who watched GT never watched Z but OG DB back in the 2000s so the downgrade in tone angering fans in the beginning was understandable and i myself agree that the black star saga was boring come off the Z hype train. GT used alot OG DB elements so viewers definitely have to be careful watching. Not a direct build up but not lackluster.
@@ronniedweetno891 No, the tail never actually provided a power buff to Goku in OG DB, that’s just strictly false.
You said that backwards. The context is that a lot of people watched Z, but never watched og. I get what you meant, but get ready for the random hate
i think the main problem was not Using Gohan, Goten, Piccolo and Vegeta like at all properly. 2nd problem was the pace, and 3rd was the color tone. it doesnt feel like db at all. Most of the shades are red and dark and overall gloomy. But i gotta say GT OST hits hard. Mark menza did a great job
1. Dragon ball was always like that
2. Vegeta stopped caring about the Saiyans and their history after they killed Frieza, now all he cares about is surpassing Kakarot
3. the Elder Kai saying there is a ssj 4 created hype and when it was finally revealed it exceeded everyone's expectations
4. Super 17 is fan service saga
5. i agree some dragons couldve looked cooler
Too much Goku time. They should have featured the Torch being passed to Goten, Trunks, Pan and Uub. Also the series overall had great ideals but poor execution
Goku's story staying a Goku's story as it has always been doesn't suddenly become " Goku time ".
@humanman9920 bruh don't be obnoxious for the sake of it smh. You damn well know that the series could have been better balanced to give the other characters a chance to shine and do something significant especially in the shadow dragon arc where the different Z warriors could have taken down a specific dragon. We always don't need Goku saving the day.
@@humanman9920Freeza, Cell and Buu Saga
My main criticisms of GT are pretty much similar to yours:
-Inconsistent tone, inconsistent animation quality (which isnt exclusive to GT), inconsistent pacing
-Too many characters got sidelined during the arcs (Way more people couldve been involved during the start of the shadow dragon arc for example, when it was monster of the week)
-Super 17 basically being filler and the whole arc being underdeveloped.
-Logical inconsistencies like the purpose of Piccolo's sacrifice, Baby not returning when the underworld opened up, etc.
-Basically the entirety of the Dark Star Dragonballs arc.
GT is just full of interesting concepts that are mostly poorly executed, but there are still some parts of it I actually respect more than Super lol
My biggest issues was LEAVING GOKU AS A KID! He couldn’t use certain techniques because he was a kid didn’t make sense. He struggle with SS3 and I don’t think he could use instant transmission. I can’t remember someone please correct me if I’m wrong. They should’ve made a wish to make Goku grown again.
Super is mine. It just sucks. Gt was actually pretty decent. Even the traveling saga. Super tho💀
Not sure about the Moro and beyond, but the only thing that really sucks is Goku Black in the anime and maybe the U6 Tournament. This is coming from a GT fan, too, but the Tournament of Power was so good
You guys should've said this years ago before it got cancelled too late now Lols
read the manga
Fact
@@ncrveteranranger4454u really said " maybe " for U6 tournament ? That arc has one cool fight and no story. Tournament of power was mid , shadow dragon arc level story execution at best. No arc in dbs matched Baby arc let alone Ssj4 as a transformation , when it comes to Ssj4 it's not the fault of dbs u literally can't outdo that especially when it comes to Goku , but it doesn't even do its transformations well in their own right , its most important form UI gets stronger with rage boost like any good ole ssj after its done trynna build it up as a unique state that gets stronger the more calm and thoughtless one becomes , just like its build form ssjb did too , both contradicting their logic by a 180 with rage boosts.
The thing that i like so much in gt is the peak world building seriously the world building is insanely underrated shot i would say its one of the best in anime
The biggest issue is how they massacred Trunks honestly 😔
I know he’s not supposed to be like future trunks cuz that’s not him but even his younger self would cringe looking at him.
Are you going to do a "greatest Problem in every og DB saga" video? Somehow you skipped the beginning ^^"
This guy is being weird, he clearly holds bitter feelings toward Dragon Ball GT, which is obvious from his unfair criticism and double standards. It’s one thing to dislike a series, but being unreasonable and biased about a show is just dishonest.
Bullseye 🎯
Its just his opinion.
I guess we can all agree that the biggest sin GT committed was giving Vegeta that ridiculous mustache.
Great video my guy 🎉
I just had a big issue on the power gap between goku and Vegeta. They treated Vegeta like a background character for real!!
Okay , let's get things clear about something . Is ur issue actually that or u want to put it on that but it's the screen time u have a problem with ?
Do u know Vegeta is explicitly stated the strongest by Baby in Baby arc ? Right after taking over Goten's body saying he can beat Goku with Vegeta's and right after taking over Vegeta saying he has obtained the strongest body in the universe ? Ssj3 Goku gets bullied by Ssj Baby Vegeta.
In Super 17 arc it returns to the usual as all of dragon ball has it , with Vegeta putting up the second best fight at his strongest making Super 17 not so confident anymore in tanking his attacks and still almost getting hit by Vegeta , almost . Goku throwing him around the world after landing a punch in ssj then getting dominated too . Although even in that he did get a boost for being clearly stronger than Majuub who had given Super baby 2 a run for his money ( Super baby 2 being stated resembling ssj3 ).
In shadow dragon arc after the crazy training he's shown doing Bulma states Vegeta might even surpass Ssj4 . When he finally comes to the battlefield he doesn't only achieve Ssj4 but fights Omega shenron on par with Ssj4 Goku catching him off guard a couple times although generally outclassed like Goku was too , in GT Perfect Files being explicitly stated as strong as Goku ssj4 .
And this being after Goku had increased his full power in ssj4 by a lot with the help of others a few episodes earlier , which makes sense with the fact that before that Bulma had said Vegeta could surpass ssj4 , Goku had to get stronger taking everyone else's energy to be as strong as what Vegeta became by himself and matched Goku's latest stage .
This is like the most respect he's been given in terms of power levels , he was an equal to Goku's final ssj4 .
Ik the screentime and involvement by some other characters including Vegeta was less in black star db arc and shadow dragon arc , but Vegeta got absolutely more respect in power levels and forms than he was given in dbz .
Bro literally stayed behind Goku the whole series after his ssj and even in the end was left in the dust with ssj2 not even getting the latest form let alone catch up to Goku's level .
In GT , he was strongest in the beginning , he got surpassed in the middle and caught up again in the end with the latest form .
@@humanman9920???
Wish it was remade to fix these problems
I mean, aren't the Kaioshin the creators? Why they won't not know what an Super Saiyan 4 is?
Im kinda confused by your point of ss4’s buildup being bad, your explanation for why UI was good sounded almost verbatim the same as why you said ss4 was bad? Like we didnt know what UI would look like therefore its better while we didnt know what ss4 would look like either the only difference being ss4 was a bit more guaranteed to happen
Right 😂
Ssj4 didn’t have any buildup that’s what’s bad about it, was quite literally an asspull. Ui actually had foreshadowing even if the name wasn’t actually used
@@Wizofmincraft Aight bet . Ssj4 first of all is the mastered version of Golden ozaru , the dormant saiyan potential was being built up since Old kai brought up pulling Goku's tail out for that . Then there was suspense around Goku still not getting stronger with the tail and losing again , before he expressed his frustration for not being able to protect earth while looking at it and that with the blutz waves coming from earth made the tail react and transformed him into golden ozaru , he rekt baby then lost sight of him destroying things at random , then Old kai said this is what he was worried about saying the training was for him to control his new power , but now they had a mindless beast on their hands and now Goku had to somehow gain back his rationality to become an ssj4 . The whole montage of raging while trying to calm down when he looked at earth but still struggling after the statement from Old kai is what's called build up , foreshadowing is different.
UI did not have sh*t for build up at the time of introduction , no movements like that hinted at all , nothing about Goku actively trying to go further than his level by practicing what is the concept of UI , just absorbed a spirit bomb and learned a technique all of a sudden , definition of asspull , only got build up at all for mastered stage .
And foreshadowing ? Golden ozaru goes all the way back to dbz when Vegeta talks of ssj , then ssj3 showing a glimpse of ozaru at its introduction implying it was moving closer to that .
The dude just gaslighted ssj4's introduction for just the mention of a generic name which only works to build interest and suspense more than anything , then attach stuff like " didn't know what it'd look like , method of achieving it " with other forms . Ssj4 has by far the most buildup in the grand scheme of things , and at the time of introduction it was still better than UI without spoiling what exactly the form is .
@@humanman9920 I’m sorry to tell you but that didn’t change anything, ssj4 still isn’t foreshadowed in the slightest. The golden oozaru isn’t foreshadowing, that was a cool visual thing they used for the ssj3 thing and expanded on for ssj4. Foreshadowing means they did something to hint at a future plot point or event happening, nothing in z foreshadows what happens in gt. Old kai pulling out goku’s tail isn’t foreshadowing either.. he apparently knew it would lead to ssj4 but never said anything about that to goku so when it happened it seemed like a random occurrence. For foreshadowing to work you’d need to actually be able to say “oh this moment was hinting at so and so” like how whis talking about goku and vegeta moving autonomously was a hint at ui. Even if we didn’t know we can look back and say it was foreshadowing. Ssj4 did NOT have a moment like that despite whatever you want to believe. As for saying ui had no buildup that’s just entirely incorrect 💀. The spirit bomb acted as a catalyst for unlocking ui but goku himself was already close to it, that was the entire point of the training. The whole thing whis was building up to for goku and vegeta, which is what he explains when goku uses it in the tournament. Super saiyan 4 legitimately came out of goku’s ass and got a pisspoor attempt to make it seem as if it didn’t. And lastly super saiyan 4 does NOT have the most buildup of all the forms what the hell are you smoking? Ssj literally had a whole arc of foreshadowing, gohan going ssj2 was builtup all the way to the moment it actually happened. God was built up throughout the arc, hell even blue was built up to an extent with the training episode inbetween battle of gods and ressurection f 💀.
@@humanman9920get a life😂
Ain’t no way in hell you just implied that Super 17 saga is worse than garlic jr saga
Great Channel!
I can’t be the only person that loves GT.
Your not people hate on gt because its popular to hate on it most people haven't even seen it lol
This video should be alot longer
Super is the biggest shit there is. It has 131 episodes while it could all end in around 80...
The real problem with gt, it shouldn't exist
I always liked GT from an idea and nostalgia perspective. The show had unique concepts and designs (the "Dragon balls" being the final main villain was very poetic in my view) but in the end the Show failed on executing said ideas.
Some points I always think that were very wasted/missing:
The Black Star Saga:
Goten should have went with them, which in turn would allow more moments for a team up with Trunks and a maybe see Adult Gotenks.
Pan should have went Super Saiyan in the fight against the Sigma Force
Baby Saga:
We agree it's the most fleshed out arc but two of my main complains are:
The lack of background information/foreshadow for SSj4 like you mentioned.
Piccolo neither a bigger role in this arc to make his self sacrifice at the end weight more besides focusing on previous character nostalgia.
Super 17 Saga:
Just scratch the idea of the villains being able to create an android out of nothing in hell with no explanation...Instead the accumulation of evil energy in Hell reacts with the accumulation of evil energy in the Drago balls (foreshadow the upcoming arc) which opens a rift between Hell and the living and the previous villains show up.
We could have a have an epic fight with Goku and Vegeta teaming up to fight Cell and Frieza. In a way, this could take ideas from the opening of Drago Ball GT final bout ^^>
Maybe we could have Piccolo come back? I will explain later...
Also, we don't kill Krillin although I loved the strange team up with 18 and Goku...
Shadow Dragon Saga:
The most simple idea...
Instead of having Goku and Pan tackle all the Dragons, lets divide teams to tackle the Dragons...
Goku should fight Nouva no matter what and Uub comes to assist him when Eis Shenron shows up. I think this fight would have a lot of Potential
Goten and Trunks could team up to fight Oceanus?
Pan and Giru could fight another one...maybe Haze? Pan could unlock SSJ2 in this battle OR even have Bra help her out?
Rage Shenron could be a nice opponent for a good team up with 18 and Krillin...
Naturon Shenron would be taken care of by Gohan and Piccolo if Piccolo came back, Naturon would then absorb Piccolo and we would get the same emotional fight scene.
Syn Shenron would show up in West City to fight Vegeta who would be no match for him and is saved by Goku who goes SSJ4 causing Vegeta to question himself on how to achieve that form...He then remembers the bultz waves and talks to bulma about it.
He then achieves ssj4 to help goku with Syn shenron who should be Omega Shenron by now
The end of GT would play out the same.
Any comments on these ideas?
The Para Para bros nuff said😊
you say GT lacks involvement from Toriyama, but Super suffers so much from that than GT. GT has interesting ideas and concepts, it builds upon the lore in DBZ such as SSJ4, Golden Ozaru, the savagery of the Saiyans, the overuse of Dragon Balls etc. and then we have Super, that slaps a new colour onto Super Saiyan every chapter and gives it a new name. it breaks DBZ lore, ruins characters and doesn't really add anything interesting, just filler.
at least GT looks the part - the style is the continuation of DBZ. Super looks like ass and has no resemblance of Toriyama's style.
L video take
GT is quite easily made better. Have the initial wish be something else but the stakes the same. Have either just Goku and Vegeta go to space to give their relationship more development like how they have in Super or have most of the side characters and yes, I would include Bulma in there go to space. With characters like Bulma they could easily have hostage situations or kidnappings and forcing her to work on some universe ending weapon or something.
Keep the tone mainly more serious with light gags here and there and have them gathering all the DB's which transitions into the Baby arc. Have more interactions with Baby and the Saiyans and like you said, don't have Vegeta being a d**k about it. He's come all this way just to mock someone he knows is out for revenge because his people slaughtered his people. This is again, something Super did right with Vegeta and Granolahs interactions. FORESHADOW SSJ4. It doesn't even make sense as Goku should have just gone regular Oozaru so fix that too. Even have him as a SSJ when he transforms, it's that easy.
Skip the Super 17 arc entirely and even have the Shadow dragon arc kick off with a peaceful time and something drastic happens that they need the DBs to fix. Maybe something they don't even have a hand in but maybe they did, like there were remnants of Baby that fell to earth and made people sick or something but it's irreversible. Even though he's dead his body itself is toxic to humans.
This way you have an event that kickstarts the DBs being overused while having a small spell that includes a past enemy and ushers in a new one. Spend more time on the dragons themselves. Have Vegeta have his moment to transform in the same way Goku did or similar and make it emotional. Even have Goku unable to continue fighting and Vegeta picking up the slack. You can have Dende heal Goku and that's when fusion comes in because all hope is lost. Have Gogeta weaken Omega to the point it's just back and forth and then he puts Goku down leading the Genki Dama. Vegeta could even distract Omega while it's being charged instead of having that power a$$pull out of nowhere. Now THAT sounds like a series I would watch. Those 7 Super 17 episodes can go to the shadow dragon arc to establish their character.
The only things I like about GT is the baby saga. That was the best part of the show. And super Saiyan 4 I guess. But, I don't like the rest. Goku has too many moments of glory and the side characters are just there. At least in super, the side characters gained new forms. But, no Gotenks (excluding the fat form) whatsoever. GT didn't even try the Gotenks form. Pan was extremely annoying and GT had more dumber moments in it than super. It's funny how people praise this anime, when super treated other characters better. But, I can't deny that Goku was stupid in super. But, Goku turning into a child again was just as stupid.
No way you watched GT and didn’t know how or why things happened. You didn’t know how vegeta figured out gohan was possessed when bringing up king vegeta a character gohan wouldn’t know of… like super 17s arc was bad but you’re points a very odd and or wrong. Like growing gokus tail would make him stronger because of the great ape form pretty simple.
I want to agree with you, but there are 2 things I have to point out. First off, I'm pretty sure Gohan would know who King Vegeta is by that point in time. Of course, he did not meet him, but he knows who he is. Secondly, my issue was more so with Vegeta knowing Gohan was possessed by a Tuffle. That doesn't make much sense.
GT should have either wait for Toriyama to come out retirement first or just get a fan of Dragon Ball involved to know what it needs to be successful. I prefer and recommend the latter, of course.
Idk fans go too much into what if level stuff with fanservice that it compromises story . I'm glad we have the peak baby arc and the decent shadow dragon arc , baby arc literally doesn't need anything except longer fights and i don't exactly trust some random fan to not overdo fanservice in shadow dragon arc and focus on making a polished story with good depth .
Toriyama did help out with the show
And a fan was the one who came up with the idea that toriyama enjoyed
@@humanman9920get a life 😂
Not enough Uub and Goten.
Lowkey you’re just regurgitating your talking points from all your other GT videos. You don’t have anything new to say about GT.
Probably because everyone had similar problems with GT, GT wasnt liked much or well received there's a reason why it got cancelled and shortened to just over 60 episodes.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350”everyone” the comment section says different
@@PeterStone-hy6ir I'm referring to more than just the comment section, Nothing I've said was wrong hence why GT isn't here today.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350Doesn't change the fact that a lot of stuff in this is false . " Everyone " doesn't make stuff right as far as that goes i see people being extra ignorant with this series cuz it's considered acceptable due to it not giving them much of a dopamine rush .
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350" hence why GT isn't here today " Where ? On a humiliating milking spree ? Lol GT done and ended dragon ball in what still is the best way while being overall the best story that released after z.
You can only criticise this show's characters if you watch it Subbed. Like Z the show is dubbed terribly and the sound track change was not as bad a the crap American rock synth soundtrack for Z but it's pretty bad in GT too.
GT Subbed is fine In my opinion and character's actually act more like themselves and their progression is more consistent than Dragon Ball Super.
I've always had mixed feelings for GT since it aired. I started by liking it, then hating it for many years. As of now, I've made my peace with it and take it for what it is. A non-canon Dragon Ball-inspired series. GT had good things, but often ended up underachieving by bad pacing, lack of depth, and weird plot points. Goku becoming a kid was the major downside of GT. Then you have the boring first quarter of the show, followed by an amazing storyline with the Baby saga, that was unfortunately cut short.
Then is the Super 17 saga. The only good thing about Super 17 was his character design. The whole thing would've been better off as a movie. By the Dragon saga, I'm just tired. The ending was great though.
GT has great things, like SSJ4, even though it could've used a bit more depth in its origin. Also, the magic clothes kind of suck, to be honest. By now, Bulma should've made super stretchy suits that don't rip, just like the Saiyan Armor. Baby had so much potential, and I feel it should be retconed in Super at one point. For now, I will go with the multiverse explanation. GT happened in another universe. It's a cheap way out, but one that justifies its existence.
GT also felt like I was watching Power Rangers. What do I mean by this? Well, you know how sometimes it's a bit annoying when the rangers would fight villains in civilian form to fill up an episode's time slot, but you just wish they'd morph instead?
That's how it felt watching most of GT when Trunks, Goku or whoever just didn't go Super Saiyan (or greater) from the start! Remember how Luud (Level 2) had Goku & Trunks on the run, but they went SS after getting stomped on and flipped the robo baby on its behind? Then for some reason, they revert back to base and just start kicking it over and over. Then after absorbing Pan, it gets to Level 3 and is WAY stronger. Yet, the boys still don't go Super Saiyan...
WTF?!
" but u just wish " but that's ur weird expectations right ? Everything shouldn't be about power levels and they shouldn't run crying to their transformations at the first sight of trouble . They did use it when needed to against Luud , that still wasn't doing anything permanent and Luud was pretty much indestructible so they just saved their stamina as they should .
I never understood splitting Black star and Baby like😭 "in the black star saga they get 4 dragon balls and in Baby they get the rest but also fight Baby"
Fr, like who dedicates time to characters like G.O.D Lood or hyper metal rildo, could’ve not showed them and the plot wouldn’t be any different
Did u get splitting androids saga with Cell ? In this they fight these androids and in that they fight this android .
@@ConnorBLYSTONE And that's why it's not called the Luud or Rildo arc Sherlock .
@@humanman9920 The android and cell saga are not split. They are only “split” in terms of what they’re called in order to differentiate them. If we’re talking TIMELINE and in universe wise they are not actually separate from each other in the slightest. The black star arc legitimately was it’s own thing, baby was something entirely different too.
really super 17 was an autistic arc cuz if there's a super 17 where tf is super 18
not to mention if 19 came back why couldn't they bring back 16? and just in general bringing back old characters just furthers the plot hole of not wishing back planet vegeta and the saiyan race, they could've even redeemed berter and jeice, so much missed potential because of shitty writing and shitty plot devices like zenkai boost and power levels
Bro this false, vegeta could sense baby energy and he showed up dude to the news, the Kia knew ss4 because goku only reached ss3 and the Kia can sense if some one has more hidden power, GT is made to be random your Trying to compare witch is the problem, you the only GT problem
GT is better than Z I said it
DaBaby saga
GT's missed potential is why I'm interested in Daima personally. Despite its issues, Toriyama admired a lot of things in GT, and even Super borrowed a few things inspired by it, but with how Daima is built, I wouldn't be surprised if he explored ideas on his own, as he's done that multiple times with non-canon material. I hope that one day stuff like the Shadow Dragons or exploring the Tuffle race is gonna be expanded on in future DB material.
Super was a way bigger disappointment than GT imo. Super 17 arc sucked but i'd take that over the copy Vegeta arc any day which is a similar length to super 17. GT has the baby arc and the second half of the evil dragons arc while Super has no good arcs. Two crappy movie retellings 2 boring ass tournament arcs and the 1 arc in the show with an actual plot made no sense and had the worst end to an arc in DB history. Also the character regression in Super should be a crime lol
GT has much more character regression than Super.
@@thelettucebarrel7784Vegeta literally better developed than his Super counterpart
@@PeterStone-hy6ir Vegeta in GT has no development. The writers simply didn’t know how to use him and couldn’t write him consistently, he’s the worst version of Vegeta in the franchise. Super Vegeta has equal or maybe even more development than he does in Z.
@@PeterStone-hy6irfacts. He’s the ACTUAL Vegeta post Buu saga.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 Disagree. When Goku is fighting Buu, Vegeta says Goku is number 1 and comes to terms with that. GT stays true to this, he's settled down with his family and he is even the one to suggest the ss4 fusion showing how far hes come. Super regresses his character at the beginning, chasing Goku and being arrogant so that he can have the same character arc all over again giving the illusion of character development. And he still hates the idea of fusion against Zamasu. And don't even get me started on Super vs GT Goku lol.
I’m taking GT over Super🤷🏽♂️ half of super is just them retelling the battle of gods and resurrection f story
I mean that’s a little disingenuous. By manga standards, the retellings are only 4 out of 100+ chapters and for the anime it’s only about 20 out of 130+. You can like GT more, but let’s not lie about Super😂
Gt is trash, Super had more stakes, power level was more balance. Transformations were more better. Characters were true to the roots. GT is not even close to Super.
GT is still better than Super 😅
Love gt
I can't believe how many people actually defend GT and say it's better than Super. No way in hell! GT is awful and was written for toddlers.
I've been a Dragon Ball fan since the 90s. Even teenage me knew there was something off about GT. People are welcome to like the series, especially if it is nostalgic for them, but from a writing and execution perspective, it is objectively bad.
Super has its problems, most notably its time/budget allocation for the animation, but its writing, direction, and humor are exponentially superior to GT across every arc.
All I could say is, Thank God DBGT is not Canon and finally stripped out of Continuity, it's better off as a Dead Timeline forever.
And Sparking Zero strongly disagrees with you.
@@Skye-Centralyou mean the one with ssgss and ultra instinct?
you've gotta have room temperature IQ to obsess about what's canon or not.
DBS is technically canon, yet GT comes much closer to resemble original DB and DBZ both in style, quality and spirit.
The only dead timeline is super which hasn´t even got an ending and contradicts End of Z in every way.
@@dbstop9194 end of z? I would have went with it contradicts dbz as a whole as how super saiyan works now it tingle in backs how potara is limited now instead of permanent and bardock entire character.
One of my biggest problems is how Trunks behaves so similarly to Future Trunks. The Trunks of this timeline is meant to be arrogant and overconfident, taking after the father that the mild-mannered Future Trunks never knew.
bla bla bla ... GT > SUPER
GT is trash, Pan ruined it for me along with Goku beating everyone and noone else got stronger or had a transformation. Say what u will about Super but we got Gohan Beast, O Piccolo, Ultra Ergo and Yamcha finally fighting again.
I like that goku is brown in this series, and the rap intro was my shit as a kid watching nicktoons, toei trying to go back to dragon ball instead of going even harder on the Z vibe especially at the height of its popularity is wild to me
My biggest problem with stuff like gt and super it just boring
GT isnt perfect but it's not bad.
A lot of your point are cap, as others have pointed out.
And Super is literally hot garbage trash. I will take Super 17 over Battle of H
Gods arc, Revival of F arc, Universe 6&7 tournament arc and Copy Vegeta Arc ANY day. ALL of them sucked and were terrible.
Super >>>>GT
Gt is if goku isnt there everyone weak and useless
oh boy the gt fans are gonna come out in full force to defend their delicious garbage, it'll be interesting to see an og one of these or an opposite series where you talk about each saga's strengths
average super “fan”.
I’m not a fan of super😂
Let's not ignore the Pan-shaped elephant in the room. Pan is a disappointment. A character who is driven by a desire to not be babied around and prove herself as competent, yet most of the time ends up needing to be babied and is portrayed as incompetent, be it not picking up on Haze's ability and losing to the weakest Shadow Dragon, getting captured by Naturon, being held as a hostage by Eis, being turned into a doll and absorbed into Luud, going on her little Metal Gear mission to rescue Trunks and Goku on Rilldo's planet only to get whisked away during her confrotation with Giru, etc. etc. Her biggest contribution to the story is somehow allowing Goku to regain control of his sense as a Golden Great Ape so he could go SSJ4. Not actively doing anything. Just being seen by someone and somehow altering their mental state just from that.
pan is to me the most important on gt and my second favorite character on dragon ball because she was the tipical standing for the kids that start viewing dragon ball form the begining, that we were alot of impulsive and trying to resolve things with violence at the time i didnt see it but after years i feel the connection with her and at the end of the series she realy value the memories of the journey, and the moment that sell it to me was the last line that trunks say to her that we have to keep fighting and in the future the dragon ball wil return , wasthe thing that to this daystill make me tear eye, i like how she was dismisive of goku at first because in her memories he was this monolith was the strongest thing, and how because of her brashness she got in trouble and have to be rescue by goku, it was ok because even if she was strong but she was still a kid and the series saying that you can relay in others was something right, to me gt and by extention pan she narrative speaking are clunky but emotionally they were the best thing, just ask every 90s kids form mexico about the ending of gt most of them were cyrying literraly went the final episode of gt air in the summer of 2000, the again im a weird one that his favorite episode are the 2th one(the one of the amusment park) , and the last 2 ones.
Idk how you UA-camrs make these videos so long , like a 5 page essay, it’s redundant , run on, and we never get to the point of the title lol! Yall always be repeating the same shit 3x over, oh well haha
I can admit, there was a little redundancy in this video😂 But 5 PAGES, no sir!
People in the comments are legit acting like GT is better than Z. Insane glazing
Both GT and Super are mostly bad, so it boils down to me by transformations. SSJ4 looks better than every transformation in Super.
Do u know what Gt stands for? Me: Garbage television😂
Now that is one funny good Satirical Joke right there. 😂👍
still better then super
Corny
@@Ghost-jq4eyEh debatable but what's not debatable is how poorly GT was received around the world, so much so it got cancelled unlike Super.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 it was well
received here is south america. The only reason you guys hated gt is because the english dub butchered the show