Future Trunks was a no nonsense character. He is the only Saiyan Z fighter to actually end the threat immediately. He easily destroyed present Frieza, Future 17, 18, Cell & Future Dabura & Babidi preventing Future Majin Buu being born. Then that invincible bastard Zamasu came and consumed the entire future multiverse which took future Zeno to erase the future timeline to get rid of Zamasu making Future Trunks ' efforts to protect his future completely in vain
@ryebread447 that why it is so unfair Future Trunks lost his timeline. He DID NOT deserve that. There was a double standard in Dragon Ball Super and that was: Vegeta took too long to kill Frieza after beating him out of his Golden form, Frieza?a blew up earth & Whis turned back time for Goku to be the one to destroy Frieza MEANWHILE LATER, Future Trunks wasted no time destroying the body of Fused Zamasu with the Spirit Sword but because Zamasu was immortal/invincible, he came back as ethereal Infinite Zamasu and consumed the future timeline killing the poor helpless survivors which made the hero Goku push the almighty Zeno button to summon the omnipotent Zeno to erase the future timeline to get rid of Zamasu
@@nickalas666 because Future Trunks' timeline is erased. Everyone who died in that timeline from the heart virus, t the Androids, to Dabura & Babidi & to Zamasu, they aren't just dead, but they don't even get an afterlife.
all because goku forgot a few pieces of paper in the past damn I'm surprised trunks didn't hold a grudge against goku himself given this whole mess only got worse because of him
I hated how there was no tension or any real threat in Ressurection F cuz Beerus and Whis were standing right there the whole time. First half of the movie was fun, second half was just meh. 😒😒
@@dangerousdays2052that and the fact that ALL of Super takes place before the ending of Z where Goku fights Uub at the tournament. They really needed to set the series after that instead. They STILL aren’t even passed that part.
Future trunks is the best written character in the series and DBS just throws it all away. He was THE ONLY Z-FIGHTER LEFT in his timeline. Making it HIS RESPONSIBILITY to protect earth, which he did. He went through hell to do it. And then, out of nowhere, FUSH, the timeline doesn’t existe anymore. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
Yeah, that was just wrong. Worse, it paints Zeno, an unassailable deity as at best callous enough to be a threat to everyone at all times, at worst a sadist. You can erase timelines and you can't undo Zamasu's BS 'merge with the universe' stupidity? Nah bro, I don't buy it.
One of my biggest issues with super’s decision making, that just deeply baffled me on so many levels, was when zamasu is defeated and future trunks’s timeline is destroyed, why the hell do they just make up some brand new timeline to send him to? Where there will now be clones of himself and Mai? It was a perfect opportunity to bring him in as a permanent stay in the main cast, and would have been awesome as an addition in the tournament of power. I just find it an incredibly jarring and strange ending to an already messy arc
Him returning if the decision was made, was the perfect opportunity to bring him back with a much more _mature_ look at this point; an open opportunity to give him the Bojack look from that movie. A perfect opportunity.
@@therealone844 as hype as Goku teaming up with Frieza for that final push was, can you imagine if the final team was Future Trunks, 17 and Frieza? Trunks humiliated Freiza in a way no one did before or after and Trunks would no doubt have some trust issues working with 17 even knowing the present version isn't a monster, that team coming together would sell the teamwork message they pounded into Jiren even harder
@@zeroattentiongaming820Great Point and Not only that BUT also. I believe It was Stated That if Android 17 Didn't wish back the universes. Zeno would have Destroyed Everything because Of A selfish wish. I feel like there could have Been potential fleshing out The Gods Using Zeno. What if the writers of Dragon ball Wrote Zeno in a way where the whole point of the TOP is To show Gods that Mortals have a Fair chance and can sometimes be just as Righteous as a God or angel. That would have bounced off well From the Future Trunks arc because It would show that Zeno was paying attention to Zamasu concerns or something. So to prevent Any further Subordination. He uses the T.O.P to Prove a Point. Having Trunks wish back all universes and His Timeline would Have made a more heartfelt. Story. Trunks and jiren would bounce off each other well because Trunks would have lost everything but still Fight with a team While jiren lost everything and Fights with No one.
I think one thing Goku black arc did better in manga is giving a back story of how Trunks handled buu. Seeing Supreme Kai die and that rage unlocking Trunks SS2 and then he able to kill both Damura, Babidi and prevent buu from resurrecting. Plus due to death of Supreme Kai, Old Kai and Buu gave a nice opening to Zamasu beginning his plot.
To be honest there, Trunks shouldn't have _never_ returned to begin with. Like, the way he and Vegeta parted when ending the Cell saga was a perfect way to wrap up the character entirely when returning like so. OR. He could have returned, but remained in his future and given a spin-off of sorts. And a great after-credit way to re-introduce him in Super Hero by making Cell the main antagonist, instead of what we were given in such a horrible film and the usual being that clear cash grab.
My biggest issue with super is that it doesn’t care about anybody other than Goku/Vegeta for the most part. They showed potential when they made that fight with master roshi and that bird guy and it was really good. Moments where they utilize these characters with their own strengths and weaknesses.
True. The Universe 6 arc was some straight up gaslighting, making it seem like it would be a fun tournament arc where Piccolo and Buu actually got to shine, then they removed Buu and gave Piccolo a 2 minute fight that he loses. Absolute garbage. It was the Goku and Vegeta show from start to finish. 😒😒
The two problems I have with Dragon Ball Super subseries not mentioned in the video is the flanderization of Goku and the regression of Vegeta. Goku does not feel like the Goku know anymore with him being flat-out stupid and Vegeta was just relearning the same lessons he already learned in Z.
The characters are a bit better in the manga but the writing, plot holes are worse. It seem's to be brain rot. Vegeta's only a bit stronger but he's still a mid-class warrior who losing to anyone with the same power level as him. Gohan never finish off the main villain and he's a bit weaker than vegeta.
Gas was weird, he felt like he was supposed to be a henchman before the final boss like Nappa was to Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, but Gas himself was weirdly the final boss.
@@MattTheHuman9 Gas to me is Z Broly if he didn't get to resolve his abuse. He very much feels like a pivot once Granola was no longer planned to be endgame.
@@supergodultralid6391 Yeah I was expecting Elec to step up after Gas was defeated but the random introduction of Black Frieza made that irrelevant lol. The Black Frieza thing was a cool twist though.
the way i see it Elec is the main antagonist. halfway through the fight you realize that Gas isn't the real villain and he's only fighting cause Elec is abusive and pushing him beyond his limits for his own gain. having a villain that works from the sidelines like that is pretty unique for the series. it also makes the reveal that Elec is actually the weakest of them and having him get destroyed by Frieza work really well cause it completely shits on everything he'd built up. getting tossed aside by a real villain who doesn't rely on others to get things done is the perfect level of disrespectful
@noahmarshall873 Elec feels weird cause he barely knows the main characters and has no dynamic with them. None of them even are involved in his death cause he just set himself up. Gas doesn't even get to make that revelation. He just abuses his brother and then dies to someone who doesn't care either way. Tbh outside UE the arc could be skipped with no real changes to anything. His siblings are dead or with Frieza, Granola is probably also dead, and frieza is stronger.
Goku did give Frieza a chance. It was only after Frieza decided to attack him again was when Goku attempted the finishing blow. It's the same with Goku vs Moro. Goku decided to kill moro when he saw that Moro still wanted to continue eating others. With kid buu it's completely different since he's litersy just a mindless beast who knows nothing but chaos.
Furthermore, with Goku and Moro, Goku didn't know about the hand that had Meerus' powers. Apart from that perspective it was about proving a point for Goku. Goku's conversation with Jaco is great, and shows goku still choosing his human side. Goku stuck to his guts and ideals. If the hand with Meerus' powers wasn't there Goku, from his perspective, had the situation totally under control. From Goku's perspective Moro could literally do nothing, he was completely outclassed by MUI Goku. Of course it backfired, but I actually think it's a really good scene that speaks to Goku's character.
The best way to watch dragon ball super: Dragon Ball Z: Battle The Gods. Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F Dragon Ball Super (Universe 6 Arc DvD) Dragon Ball Super (Goku Black Arc DvD) Dragon Ball Super (Tournament Of Power Tv Or DvD)
Problem with Moro is how padded out and drawn out the boring storyline was. Then when Goku gave Moro a chance it was jusr another lazy copied storyline. Except that the battle went on so you had to wait another month. I despise DB Super. It takes any potential issue with DBZ and makes it 100x worse
The problem is that threw Goku development in Z out of the window. After Frieza Goku understood that not everyone deserved to have second chance. And guess what he yelled Gohan to finish Cell and understood the only way Kid Buu can have second chance is by reincarnation. Goku should have understood Moro’s character by that time already and understood this goat can’t have second chance and it didn’t even take a rocket scientist to know that he can fused with Earth and reversed the situation right there.
@@Zhijia494Whether he didn't know, doesn't change that they reversed his character development as he learned this lesson after Frieza which is why he told Gohan to finish off cell while he had the chance and took the first chance he had to put down buu when he realized that leaving the younger generation to take up the mantle wasn't the thing to do then and he should've done so before and does it with kid buu.
Moro felt like combination of all major Dragon Ball villains in a way. His initial goal was to regain his youth, his prime, which he accomplished like King Piccolo He invaded Namek like Frieza did. Cell was programed to evolve the way he did, so his appearance wasn't based on the things he absorbed, but Buu's absorptions were more organic like Moro's, he takes the appearance of the absorbed entity. And the way he became unhinged and wanted to blow up the earth was very Cell like. He is basically all of them combined.
@@Th3Kingism Looool no it didn't. There hasn't been fanservice in Dragon Ball since the orginal with Bulma and then briefly in some filler with Krillin's gf. Cope harder. 😂😂
For me, some my problems with the arcs are the following: • Beerus, while still an enjoyable character, was more of a malevolent character and a bully in the battle of gods arc than he was in the movie version. • Tagoma, despite being given more to do in the resurrection F arc, was even more of a wasted character than in the movie. • Ginyu was a wasted character in the resurrection F arc. • Goku's fight with Frieza was worse in the resurrection F arc, and it made less sense for Goku to give him a second chance. Not to mention that Goku's battle IQ during the fight in the arc was significantly reduced in comparison to the movie, as Goku not only needed help figuring out Frieza's weakness, but his tactics on how to weaken Frieza were just plain bad in comparison to the movie version. • I honestly think that Vegito's fight with fused Zamasu was more strength accurate in the manga than the anime. • I honestly think that the anime version of the tournament of power was overall better than the manga's rushed version. • Despite the clear callbacks to previous arcs, I think that the Moro arc was overall good. • Black Frieza came out of nowhere and is still left unresolved. Frieza overall has been in this series too long.
@@ashura9706 Nothing wrong with UI Roshi. Roshi knowing the principals of UI make sense and he had to remind Goku of his martial artist roots. It goes with UI being foreshadowed since DB thanks to him and Mr.Popo.
@@beegpappa7900it’s not even that being the problem mainly he shouldn’t have been able to out maneuver jiren… roshi could’ve still said what he said originally and it would make sense but that part specifically was just bad call
Frieza is what makes it feel like a Space Opera. Frankly he was the only interesting parts of Super for me, especially in ToP. Vegeta aka the Prince of all L’s should go.
@@BM-sg1sl Moro lost his sauce when his magic stopped working cause they were to fast and in general just became a brawler. Gas was more creative in his techniques than Moro.
I think with perfected super saiyan blue in the manga, it's similar to the boost from regular Ssj to Ssj grade 4 in the Cell Saga. One can't compete with 17 and 18, while the other is able to almost go toe to toe with Perfect Cell. So normal Ssb struggling with Merged Zamasu, to perfected ssb being ok par, to slightly better then isn't that crazy to me. I am aware that there was a whole year of training that happened in the time chamber between ssj and ssj grade 4, however, the gap isn't as big in the Goku black arc. 17 and 18 to perfect cell is a massive gap
I believe the Goku Black arc in the manga to be overrated. It has many aspects where it is better than the anime, but I believe it to also do a lot of the things worse. While I believe the fights and character's intelligence was done much better in the manga, many plot holes and asspulls are almost way more prominent than in the anime. Like Goku Black getting a Zenkai Boost while Goku no longer can even tho Zamau is inside an older version of Goku. Trunks just having healing powers just because he was a Kai apprentince so he can magically rescue Mai and Gowasu. Zamasu and Goku Black being Supreme Kai enough to use Time Rings but not enough to stay fused permanently. Goku Black getting away with asking Zuno questions but Zamasu in the present who followed the same pattern gets caught. Alright? Though of course Goku Black meeting Goku when he was still an apprentince also made no sense in the anime. As cool as it is, SSJ Goku Black also makes no sense. Considering he should only have God Ki (the ki is more bound to the soul while the body is more an amplifier, if you can control it, see Ginyu), how is he able to turn regular SSJ? Shouldn't happen. An issue the anime did not have. In addition I believe Zamasu and Goku Black's motive and dialogue was much better in the anime, such is their relationship. Fused Zamasu too is imo much cooler in the anime, since he is finally not a brute and actually a godly being, fitting much more to Zamasu. The manga turned him into a brute like basically all villains before him. Also him turning corrupted as he has a mortal side to him is much more logical than Fused Zamasu being completely invincible in the manga. Infinite Zamasu, stupid in both, but way too out of nowhere in the manga. What exactly happened that Zamasu all of a sudden could create clones? Why did regular Zamasu and Goku Black turn into more Fused Zamasus? Just because they didn't properly defuse? Fused Zamasu had multiple limbs cut off, no new Zamasu grew from those. And 10 Zamasus in the end, turned out of nowhere to multiple thousands in like 1 or 2 minutes. Also, according to Gowasu, Zamasu and GB fused on a cellular level cause they are the same person. What? They inhabit two separate bodies, how is that possible? Both anime and manga have a crap ton of problems, but the manga is absolutely not much better than the anime. It's a 50/50, each doing something better than the other. Ending was crap in both. Though overall I enjoyed the arc in both media. In the anime I liked Zamasu's moments at the beginning of the arc, where he is slowly turning more evil, while in the manga I really love that Gowasu still tries to save Zamasu (GB) yet gets shown that he is a lost soul.
@aurorasdrawingcorner first you dont understand how ki works if goku black was only using his godly ki he'd be in super saiyan god at all times instead of the black hair and eyes we all know and love about goku
@@ScorchedTemales First, none of us know how ki works, we never get a proper explanation, and second, Goku still retained the God Ki even after the transformation wore off, so Goku Black's Ki was directly infused into the body's base form, just like Goku did. Goku Black can not have base Ki, it's even said in the Frieza arc that the body is just an amplifier for the strength, a tool you have to use correctly. And if you believe I don't understand how ki works, explain why just the soul switch changed blue to rosé? If Ki has nothing to do with the soul, tell me why GB has no access to Blue and only has Rosé? Because Goku Black is actually a deity who only owns and uses God Ki, it's even written in the manga. It's also mentioned that Zamasu's ki felt similar to Goku Black's. How can that be if it's not linked to the soul?
@aurorasdrawingcorner well i actually re read the manga After black achieves SSR he mentions his "divine" soul and gokus "saiyan" body are finally properly combining which could be the reason of him using normal ssj instead of the power of the gods also lack of experience with saiyan body
It honestly feels like super is constantly writing itself into corners so as a result we get Mastered SSB, and SSJ Rage to kill the threat that was made too strong.
They had years to fix the goku black ending since anime came before the manga, so its not even like they wrote themself in the corner since they had years to think of a better ending. More than likely they wanted mastered ssb to be the good written ending
Everytime I rewatch Super I start from the Goku Black arc. But it’s still the most cash grab arc outside of Resurrection F. Point 1: It literally doesn’t make sense. Logically Future Trunks shouldn’t be able to go back into the current DB timeline. When they defeated Cell the time lines splintered. Tbh they split before that but still, he should’ve went back and saw himself and whatever his world looked like in that age, not the universe where everyone survived. Point 2: if they were gonna do and screw their entire logic, it should been Gohan Black due to Goku being dead, the Zamasu from trunks timeline wouldn’t have known Goku to ever exist since he was dead for a while, making it Gohan would’ve added several different stakes to the story. Making trunks have more reason to be scared of the main villain, a reason to be the one to kill him, and also could’ve shown us what Gohan’s true power looked like before beast was created. Giving our Gohan a reason to train again but to use his rage in a proper way. So whenever beast is revealed to us it would’ve been his power and how he used it. It could’ve been like 100 damn birds with one stone but I guess I can only dream. Idk how they went with that story beat.
I'll feel like when Trunks returned was it _always_ that, not to be a dick to the guy? Just him losing that affection for his own series slowly when giving us the nonsensical like so.
Except gohan is also dead, did you not see the history of trunks tv special? That wouldn’t make sense either, because that’s how trunks became a super saiyan by gohan dying lol
@ yes but gohan’s death is closer in time than Goku’s who died a decade prior. Even excluding how Goku’s or Gohan’s body is taken. Gohan being the villain just makes more sense plot wise.
Personally, Future Trunks' final form doesn't bother me that much. My biggest problem was that Trunks destroying Zamasu was incredibly badass and then it turns out he wasn't dead and Zeno had to come and kill him for good, it undermined everything that happened in the arc up until that point and felt lazy as hell. Like, why didn't Goku think of that from the beginning?
I would've appreciated about another 10 minutes worth. Critiquing the ending to the Goku Black/Zamasu arc, comparing the ending of the Universal Survival Arc in the manga and giving DBS Broly recognition as well as the Super Hero movie and manga.
My problems with Super as a whole: - Retelling the Battle of Gods movie but with so much padding and bad animation - The entirety of Resurrection F - Not doing enough to explain how Android 17 got strong enough to keep up with Super Saiyan Blue Goku - Doing absolutely nothing with Majin Buu - Future Trunks in general and the end of the Goku Black Arc - Power scaling in the Tournament of Power - Everything to do with Bardock from DB Minus retconning Bardock: The Father of Goku to his fight with Gas to his potentially lore breaking wish (if he actually made it) - Dragon Ball Super Hero's art style and Beast Gohan being a blatant retread of his Super Saiyan 2 moment in the Cell Saga - Moro borrowing too much from Cell - The Granolah Arc in general just being meandering and aimless. So much so Frieza had to come in and personally end it.
No such thing as “retconning bardock: the father of goku” thats a bs complaint😂 that film was never canon in the first place so its not a retcon, its like saying broly got retconned even though he was never in the real story until super
@@Samir-rd8xp Toriyama did include a panel of him exactly how he was in FoG so the character has always been canon even if you want to dispute the story. Still, Z Bardock was popular enough where they could have implemented him exactly how he was in the special instead of making him a less interesting Jor El.
I agree that Granolah Arc definitely wasn't as great as Moro but I can say that the backstory and exposition we got had me hooked instantly and I was all for it at the time
for me granolah is a more interesting antagonist than moro he had a past, justifications and devlopment something we dont see in most dragon ball antagonists. Gas would be more interisting if we got deeper into his past
@@SaiyanZ_DB I would almost even say that Granola wasn't the antagonist, but actually the protagonist of the first half of the arc. We get more focus on him and Vegeta provides the perfect foil. Once the Heeters get fully involved and Gas becomes the strongest, it shifts back over to Goku, as Gas is his foil.
Merged divine Zamasou shattering time and reality really jumped the shark. The anime was entertaining all around. I could ignore most flaws save for the end of the GB arc
a few things looking similiar dosent make it a rehash Granolah arc built up multiple things.. goku's UI (and him understading saiyan's pride), vegeta's character, granolah's devlopment, bardock flashback and freeza development
@trolly6451 an old character absorbing energy, the Z fighters training to fight the threat, the villain devouring people, the villain absorbs an android to transform, Goku gives the villain a senzu bean, the villain becomes a time bomb.
Moral of the story, GT is the end of Dragonball. All of the other shit is nothing but the dream he's having while riding on the back of Shenron while ascending to a new plane of existence.
@@dralx2042 the new arc didnt even start, bro what are you on ? he used mui because he wasnt actually fighting he claims that he only wanted to test gohan's strength we would see it in the next arc.. like bro everyone who shits on the manga didnt actually read it
I mean I recall Toriyama saying that Fused Zamasu wasn't supposed to be THAT powerful and I don't even think he even initially wanted to include Vegito at all Edit: Also this is the same manga that had Gohan vs Kefla so it's not out of the question that some characters were supposed to be weaker or stronger than in the anime
Yep, you're completely right. That was Toriyama's original vision. Thats why a fully healed Goku was able to take out Fused Zamasu after defusing Vegito in the manga
I like to think that fusing (either way) requires two beings that are compatible with one-another to be truly effective. Trunks/Goten, Vegeta/Goku and Kale/Caulifla are all friends/rivals and the same species. Whilst Goku Black and Zamasu might *technically* both be the same person, they're not. They're a saiyan fusing with a kai.
For me. Future trunks rage form makes sense. It's like we all forgot about all the times gohan got mad and got stronger than everyone. They're both half saiyan
the ambiguity of SSRage is what makes it really frustrating and given that future trunks will never return it will never be explained what exactly SSRage is and how is it able to take trunks from at best buu saga level to fused zamasu level even gohan in superhero arc was at least pre - A73 moro level before his beast transformation and he can't control its full power without losing control in the super hero movie it we are told that gamma 1 and 2 are believed by piccolo to be on par with Goku and vegeta (even if take into account that last piccolo saw them was in moro arc that still puts the gammas at pre-angle powers moro level) and gohan was able to box with them without them one shottng him so gohan was probably some where around moro level before hs beast form
It makes perfect sense. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Broly all have at least one moment when they're genuinely angry and get ridiculously stronger. Even Cabba only goes Super the first time because Vegeta makes him mad.
Aaahh… I can’t agree with the Gas stuff. The Heeters were the antagonists the entire time and them doing what they did was obvious if you were paying attention. Gas isn’t too interesting, but he is Goku’s enemy in the same way Granolah was Vegeta’s. He serves to highlight Goku’s issues in both his understanding of himself and what he believes. He’s also not that interesting because he was indoctrinated by his older brother into being a sacrificial tool, and his actual personality is that of a child seeking validation.
I really like how immortality is handled in the black manga arc. Being cut into pieces and forming more zamasu was just cool. Maybe it doesn't make any sense but I liked the manga and anima at different points better. In my head canon I take parts from each lol
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Future Trunks' arc problem is that they got lost with that time travel 💩. Trunks should be the hero.
I like the idea that “super saiyan rage” was actually Future trunks unconsciously using a technique like the spirit bomb and gathering energy from everyone to power himself up. It would tie into the sword of hope trunks uses at the end, and fit the vibe of future Trunks in general.
My head cannon for future Trunks is when training with Vegeta him going blue some of that god ki stuck into Trunks manifesting into the SSJ Rage form that's why the blue hue
Irunks’ should’ve gotten god. He deserves a drastic power boost the most. He should have had a short arc where he trained with Vegeta, and Vegeta takes it upon himself to teach him godly ki and how to access it. This would mirror and contrast their training in the time chamber, where Vegeta learns from Goku, and actually trains with Trunks rather than training separately. The jump from normal Ki to Godly Ki is big enough for the gap between black and Trunks to not be an issue anymore, and if he has acces to that kind of Ki it wouldn’t be farfetched to think he could beat a weakened fused Zamasu with the SB sword. The issue of god being eclipsed so fast in the anime wouldnt be an issue had it been given to trunks, and he used the form so it got it’s time to shine.
You missed some important narrative issues. The story of DBS is narratively ruined from the get go. As soon as the Z Fighters make friends with Beerus and Whis, there are no more stakes in the story. When you have the 2 most powerful ( at that point) characters being your friends, nothing bad can happen. Then we learn that there is someone stronger than them (Xeno) and Goku befriends him right away. It’s so stupid, it’s basic storytelling ignored. Then they ruined Trunks. Yes ruined him. Because his arc was over, there was nothing else to say about him. But they brought him back in a much worse version of himself ( both physically and story wise), and worse, they destroyed all that he accomplished. All that he did in Z was for nothing because his world is dead. So they took Trunks, made him lame, and destroyed what he did in the past. The level of incompetence on this show is staggering…
@joshuahackshaw7703 yes. Most of the time, Berrus and Whis don't give a shit about saving Goku, Vegeta, or anyone. Goku befriending god is just classic dragon ball shit and Trunks' arc was not ruined just because you didn't like it. I never liked Gohan studied more than trained, I don't like that Vegeta was in Goku's shadow for all of DBZ, and I don't like that the saiyans don't have tails. Doesn't mean it's bad and that I should whine about it like a baby.
[2:23] I mean but actually that wasn’t entirely the case exactly cause Toyotaro did do a spin off promotional manga story for the ROF saga and was actually pretty decent cause it was more similar towards the movie adaptation than compared to the anime version but even for the anime version of the DB resurrection of ‘F’ saga I didn’t really think it was that bad compared toward the original theatrical version that was already out, I really only saw it as just an longer variation of the same story that they could’ve simply done without when looking back on it.
the spinoff released before super become a thing but tbh skipping the arc was good it was the worst arc anyways and they had to start a new arc already
To be fair in the Moro saga frieza got a second chance. He even told frieza “I hope I never see your face again.” He was only forced to finish him due to frieza fighting back just as Moro, and kid buu even got a second chance, where goku outright stated he wishes to meet him again as a good guy, which is why uub came out
Fun videos and nice breakdowns (the dbz one and this one). What annoyed me about the tournament of power was the time of it. A lot happened in 48 minutes or how ever long it was.
My only major issue was the ending of the Goku Black arc. Trunks should have killed Zamasu and use the Super Dragonballs to restore his timeline. It could have been that simple
Respect the fact you didn't indulge in the comments. Problem for me in dragon ball is simple. Two options: introduce a villain who fights the human Z warrior in their base and second forms. Then when the villian is pissed off transforms into 3rd form and it becomes too much for human Z warriors so Piccolo steps in, he goes on few rounds with him until hes don't too, show Piccolo stronger than human Z warriors but not by too much, then either show Gohan or Goten and Trunks. They do abit better than Piccolo and Lastly when the villain is in their final form Goku and Vegeta show up to take it to the end. Second option: introduce more than one villain, one is primary and other or others are secondary. Now divide the Z warriors into groups and have each group fight a certain villain.
Isn't the second option the moro arc and why do people want to see the humans fight so much after all aren't they just humans there is no need for them to have a major villain
me personally: bog & res f were fine as movies, we didn’t need poorly made retellings of the stories universe 6 arc is fine, wished the anime followed the manga and had goku swap between ssg and ssgss cuz we don’t need to see the blue hair 24/7 when he has different transformations- makes the other transformations useless when they could’ve found a way to keep ssj and ssg relevant black arc coulda been better if they didn’t let goku and vegeta travel back in time cuz if a post buu arc trunks can barely handle black but is still putting up a fight, then both vegeta and goku would realistically curb stop black and zamas, would’ve been cooler if they had trunks learn some kinda technique to save his own world instead of going back into the past, or maybe make black stay in the present universe, another issue i have is the ending- feels like the wrote themselves into a corner and was like “oop we messed up- gotta delete that-“ yeah forget all the survivors and all the history trunks made there yeah….. tournament of power was honestly fine in both versions lol i can’t say much else abt the manga, haven’t read it- but from what i’ve heard, moro is basically cell… and granola is mid- bardock comes back for no reason-? feels out of character for bardock to be so nice- that’s probably cope tho from them retconing him- making gokus backstory super man part 2….
One thing i can't forgive the manga for is ruining the logic of the Super Saiyan God form. The Battle of Gods movie made it clear, that Goku absorbed the power and strength of the God form into his base form, therefor there'd be no reason to use the form again. Also the form clearly required the ritual to achieve it. Manga completely crapped on that logic
Super arcs of anime and manga (sometimes movies) i perfer Battle of Gods:Movie Resurrection f: Movie Universe 6 saga:Anime Goku black saga:Thats a very hard one but manga by a little Tournament of power: Anime by a little Superhero arc: Manga,But some of the fights in the anime were better for me That's it for now👍 Edit : I forgot superhero
for me id say BOG: manga res f: anime universe6: both were the same but id go with the anime goku black: manga was way better TOP: its hard but id go with manga since it handeled UI better
Very well done video. You edited this? Also, I just finished the Granolah arc, and it’s way better than I remembered it. Your problems with it I can see, but those aren’t that major or problems to me.
Ah yes finally someone understood that the moment when Goku attempted to spare Moro is super duper stupid and should not be there at all, if Grand Supreme Kai doesn’t go to Uub to save the day, Earth is literally done for. And most people got the nerve to praise that moment due to nostalgia from Z which is not even true when the last opponent Goku attempted to spare in Z is freaking Frieza.
@@Enity-qb4gp Yet a literal pre-near end of Z Goku threw away the potara earings and wanted to test his own power against Kid Buu, if not for the spirit bomb Goku and Vegeta would've died. Goku even jokes about it. So your point is weak. Have all this for Super but not Z, Goku chooses to spare people when he wants to, just like how Goku chooses when to be serious when he wants. Goku has been taught like a martial artist no hero of justice. He fights to get stronger and get entertainment from battle, using his ability to kill his opponents is something they are taught to heavily restrict from doing, Goku will always try to spare someone before instantly killing them, Kid Buu was the exception not at all the explanation. Gokus' character arc is about finding happiness and acceptance with himself whilst also pushing others past their transgressions, he has change in some of his actions but almost ALL of Gokus friends were his enemies, people who tried to kill him, people who can destroy planets. Goku is rewarded for his overwhelming consistency to his martial teaching which is why Beerus even speaks about Gokus weird aura and how fascinating as a person he is. This isn't really anything but just being consistent. Goku will endanger earth to make new friends, it sounds insane but that's what makes his character much more subversive than heroically generic
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 Counterpoint: Kid Buu doesn’t want or know to use ki control, Goku knew that his ssj3 can go on toe with Buu at that point but he miscalculated the energy drain of ssj3. Also did you even read or watch the show? They didn’t even need the Spirit Bomb to win, that is just Vegeta’s idea for the Earthlings to take responsibility to protect their own home. Literally all they need is ask KibitoKai to teleport back to Earth, take Gohan there and let him beat Kid Buu, that was even what Goku thought Vegeta wanted at first and showed no sign of objection. Also also Goku doesn’t try to spare everyone when he wants to, he just knew which one deserved to have second chance, that is what he understood after Frieza Saga. Keyword he only spared because he understood they can be no harm anymore like 18 or Buu not he wanted to? See your points are weak now. Also also also, guess that jn your mind Goku’s friends only have Vegeta and Piccolo so you can utter that almost ALL of his friends try to kill him at some points, Krillin, Bulma, Master Roshi, Chichi, Yajirobe, Satan never did that, I’m generous so I will let you do the math and see if your ALMOST is like a bit more than 1/2. He is not an ally of justice yeah but he wanted to protect Earth more than go around beat people up. Okay not counting Super cause that thing is stupid, after Frieza when did Goku try to endanger the Earth after knowing fully the risk of it I am waiting.
@@Enity-qb4gp 1. Ki control or not Goku was legit struggling against Kid Buu and couldn't defeat him on his own with SSJ3 since it has terrible Ki drain. "I want to fight using my own power" is what he says proving Goku would rather fight bu himself instead of fusing which wouldve easily dealt with Buu. Goku knows the form has abysmal flaws yet decides to battle with his own power. That is creating more consequences than solutions and no. Goku had NO way of beating Kid Buu without fusion or spirit bomb. He wouldve gotten dominated horribly. 2. Goku doesn't kill Fat Buu when he has the chance because he wanted to see little kids do the job because of course they wouldn't be overconfident and cocky. 3. The Goku vs Majin Vegeta fight? Do I even need to specify on that. Vegeta murdered people right in front of Goku yet he still goes on to have a one off battle and doesn't even Go full power getting his shit knocked out. Really not endangering earth or so by being his usual merciful self. Goku does this so many times, why didn't he just defeat Vegeta quickly if he had legitimately proved that he was being pure evil in that moment?
@@Enity-qb4gp So you actually think Goku would've won without the spirit bomb? If anything at least Mui Goku was actually stronger than Moro, Goku in Ssj3 legit just played 50/50 with a nonsensical brainless chaotic psychopath. Goku most likely even trusted moro since he has some form of logic, being able to communicate and such whilst Kid Buu is straight up a dumb illiterate psychopath.
@@Enity-qb4gp He spares when he wants to because Martial artist aren't mentally trained to motivate in killing people. In Z Goku makes many mistakes and recuperates by killing them himself or defeating them for the time being like Frieza.
5:26 I can see what you mean. But remember this is nothing new. Back then, Ssj would absolutely get wrecked by Imperfect Cell if they were to ever have fought. And yet mastered Ssj destroys Semi-perfect Cell, and can even give supressed Perfect Cell a good fight. The biggest problem is that they screwed up with fusion. Blue Vegito should not have struggled even a millimeter. They also f***ed it up by making the time extremely limited, especially with how short it lasted in the manga.
Honesty, what should have happened in the Goku Black arc is this. Future Trunks should've trained with Vegeta and started to learn about how to use God Ki. Unfortunately, he doesn't learn much as Black comes to the main timeline like he does in the original. Goku and Black have their fight, Black leaves, they follow, but only Vegeta and Goku go, as Vegeta has Whis handle Trunks' training in God Ki. They fight like they do in manga, and when all seems lost, Trunks comes in to help having learned enough to sustain a Super Saiyan God form. There could be some weird timey wimey stuff. Basically, saying it's been weeks in the main timeline, but only let's say an hour for Goku and Vegeta. Through their combined efforts, they try to defeat Fused Zamasu, but they are still having a tough time. Trunks has his rage moment pushing him to Super Saiyan Blue instead of some new form we've never seen and this allows Goku and Vegeta to power up as they all defeat him together, with Trunks dealing the final blow
5:25 Where are those images from? I hadn't seen before those characters in that artstyle (vegito, and also before in the video goku, vegeta and black). Where did you find those images, bro? Great video btw!
My biggest issue with the black star GT saga was its comedy vs serious mix and how much it focuses on Goku. Goku handles all the fights .Trunks was there any barley did anything or even transformed into super sayain. Pan didn’t fight much either . And with goku in a younger state it would be interesting for the other Allie’s to explore . Uub was introduced and forgotten for a while . Half the enemies were jokes. It would be a great opportunity for characters like Tien, Yamcha and those who didn’t go to Namik to explore space and have relevant fights. You could have Vegeta and Gohan say they have to stay on earth to protect it and the weaker people go to space . Imagine Tien finding out his alien heritage and an arc like that. I always felt that the outer space and universe of Dragonball was heavily underexplored beyond the sayains freiza and Namik. Like Freeza was an emperor of the galaxy and his death as well as the death of his father must’ve caused a huge shake up. Imagine the countless planets civilizations and aliens out there to fight and explore.
Dragon ball Z also has issues with power scaling. For example Yamcha when he is spotted by Android 19 is strong enough to effortlessly curb stomp final form Freeza. 19 mistook him for Goku and said he meets Goku’s expected power level. The last time they checked Goku’s power level was when he fought Vegeta where he reaches 32,000 using Kaioken x4. A year prior he reached 900 doing a Kamehameha on raditz. When they first met him he was at 50. So, in age 750 Goku’s level is at 50. In age 762 he reaches 32,000. That’s a 640x increase in 12 years. And going from 900 to 32,000 in one year is a 35x increase. Lowballing and assuming they think he’s going to increase by 35x every year you have this 1,372,000,000. Namek Freeza is 120,000,000. They told everyone not to even show up unless they’re up to the challenge after being told the androids are more powerful than SSj Trunks and SSj Goku. And they just saw trunks effortlessly take out mecha Freeza who’s 160,000,000 and king cold who’s higher than that. To be of use they’d need to be strong enough to take out Mecha Freeza at the least. And based on the trends of how much increase Goku gets Yamcha would have to be in the billions to be mistaken as Goku. So Android saga yamcha could very much curb stomp Freeza which is pretty ridiculous to the point a lot of people outright deny this even when you show them the facts.
My two biggest problems with Super are the unearned victories (and, in turn, the lack of victories for transformations) and the abuse of the Dragon Balls. First off, the unearned victories are a two-fold issue: The fact that the major victories are unearned and that no transformation outside of UI Sign beating Kefla earns a victory. I do give a pass to Battle of Gods because the point was the appease Beerus, not defeat him, but that meant SSG never got a victory. In Resurrection F, Whis has to rewind time so Goku can steal the kill from Vegeta instead of, maybe, teleporting under Frieza to block the blast? In the twin universe tournament, Goku loses to Frost and excuses have to be made for him to get back in and then Goku has to mix Blue with Kaioken to beat Hit, and even then, forfeits the match so Monaka can secure a gag victory. (Edit: Forgot Monaka existed) Goku Black Arc? Zeno button. The Tournament of Power is nothing more than episode after episode of power-creeping and rule-breaking while "Mastered" Ultra Instinct works for only three minutes. In the Broly movie, SSB again gets no victory because Cheelai uses the Dragon Balls to disconnect Broly's router and Gogeta gets an error message mid-ultimate. I never read the manga but from what I understand, Whis once again gives Goku the chance to beat the villain (Moro). And in the Granolah Saga, Frieza is the one to kill Gas. And I have SO many problems with Super Hero that I don't know where to start. With the Dragon Balls, they have been abused to the point that we are past the end of Z. They were used in Battle of Gods, Resurrection F (twice, as Bulma mentioned using them to wish back a city at the end), before the first tournament, between Goku Black and Tournament of Power, in Broly, in Super Hero, AND we know Bulma has made extra wishes for cosmetic enhancements, putting us well past Z and closer to GT. And lastly, while this might fit better in a transformation video, I will say that Super Saiyan Rage has always made sense to me and is explained because Trunks is the only Saiyan to continue using the graded, bulky forms. In movies 8 and 9 (Broly 1 and Bojack), Trunks is shown to still be using the outdated Grade 2; in Super, during his outdoor training with his father, he uses Grade 3; and at (correction) 4:20, you show him powering up into Rage, where he momentarily BULKS UP before shrinking back down. And when he slims down is when the blue appears in his aura. Rage is Super Saiyan Grade 4! As if the blue energy is the power that filled his muscles and weighed him down has escaped, only to be trapped in his aura. He's earned this after more than a decade of staying on the one path every other Saiyan has ignored. Rage and UI Sign are not only my favorite transformations, but the only ones to have proper build-up, execution, and a victory (despite Zamasu infecting the universe). God had a good build-up and a technical victory but a poor execution. Wishing for the ritual is... ugh. What I don't understand is the Chronoa existed at this point and having come in with a "hey, Lord Beerus, sorry. I let a well-meaning time-traveler split the timeline by giving the future Super Saiyan God heart medicine and that's why you can't find him. But if you're willing to listen, I have a solution!" Rage and Sign get an S from me. God a B+/A- Every other form gets a C or D due to lack of depth and wins. And then there's Orange Piccolo, who gets an F, an F-, a score of 0, maybe even a negative score. You do NOT wish for a transformation.
Goku and Vegeta not just going all out to destroy Goku Black immediately for me kind of unbelivable. Bro. He killed that universes version of your families. 😅
I always saw trunks super saiyan rage as trunks, gaining a tiny bit of god ki he's fighting with and against people using god ki so to me he's slapping god ki on super saiyan
8:49 Moro doesn't deserve a second chance, but Goku decided that after asking Moro if he was going to change or not. Just like when he initially spared Frieza before Frieza decided to sneak attack him. The senzu itself was also irrelevant since for all Goku knew, Moro did not copy Merus's power, and Moro wasted the senzu when he attacked and broke his arm. Fair enough for the Whis thing, though it was really just the same method that Merus used.
5:48 Also, it is kinda of an asspull for Blue Goku to be even with merged Zamasu, but considering that the Gap in power between Vegito and Merged Zamasu is even larger than it was in the anime, and how Blue Vegeta in both versions was whooping Goku Black's butt and Zamasu really doesn't add too much power, Goku holding his own for only a small amount of time isn't too farfetched.
@@fatdurk7934bc he was the God of destruction beerus ? current base goku wipes everyone except ppl like jiren and broly , which includes ppl like kefla GoD toppo etc and probably even hired at this point if we’re taking the scaling they tell us
@@fatdurk7934The first villain was Beerus who was made stronger and stronger by the author so Goku and Vegeta will not surpass him to soon, because they later realised how illogical is the powercrep in the manga (I hope).
What was different in the Granola arc over the tournament of power that made the constant power jumps less an issue? Did the addition of UI and UE make a difference?
@@ItsBigTune Fair. I was also curious you mentioned you enjoyed the Moro arc month to month and I remember in many reviews after it finished saying the arc was better as a binge. Do you prefer the gap?
Future Trunks was a no nonsense character. He is the only Saiyan Z fighter to actually end the threat immediately. He easily destroyed present Frieza, Future 17, 18, Cell & Future Dabura & Babidi preventing Future Majin Buu being born. Then that invincible bastard Zamasu came and consumed the entire future multiverse which took future Zeno to erase the future timeline to get rid of Zamasu making Future Trunks ' efforts to protect his future completely in vain
True. He was about business first, last, always
how is it in vain?
@ryebread447 that why it is so unfair Future Trunks lost his timeline. He DID NOT deserve that. There was a double standard in Dragon Ball Super and that was: Vegeta took too long to kill Frieza after beating him out of his Golden form, Frieza?a blew up earth & Whis turned back time for Goku to be the one to destroy Frieza MEANWHILE LATER, Future Trunks wasted no time destroying the body of Fused Zamasu with the Spirit Sword but because Zamasu was immortal/invincible, he came back as ethereal Infinite Zamasu and consumed the future timeline killing the poor helpless survivors which made the hero Goku push the almighty Zeno button to summon the omnipotent Zeno to erase the future timeline to get rid of Zamasu
@@nickalas666 because Future Trunks' timeline is erased. Everyone who died in that timeline from the heart virus, t the Androids, to Dabura & Babidi & to Zamasu, they aren't just dead, but they don't even get an afterlife.
all because goku forgot a few pieces of paper in the past damn I'm surprised trunks didn't hold a grudge against goku himself given this whole mess only got worse because of him
My biggest gripe in resurrection F was that they stole Vegeta chance to kill frieza. That part of the movie was not needed.
I hated how there was no tension or any real threat in Ressurection F cuz Beerus and Whis were standing right there the whole time. First half of the movie was fun, second half was just meh. 😒😒
@@dangerousdays2052that and the fact that ALL of Super takes place before the ending of Z where Goku fights Uub at the tournament. They really needed to set the series after that instead. They STILL aren’t even passed that part.
😢
@@gabethebabe3337 that’s the whole point, it’s a story before end of z
Why does vegeta need to kill frieza in the eyes of the fans? For what revenge? If that’s the case he should kill beerus too
Future trunks is the best written character in the series and DBS just throws it all away. He was THE ONLY Z-FIGHTER LEFT in his timeline. Making it HIS RESPONSIBILITY to protect earth, which he did. He went through hell to do it. And then, out of nowhere, FUSH, the timeline doesn’t existe anymore. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
Yeah, that was just wrong. Worse, it paints Zeno, an unassailable deity as at best callous enough to be a threat to everyone at all times, at worst a sadist. You can erase timelines and you can't undo Zamasu's BS 'merge with the universe' stupidity? Nah bro, I don't buy it.
... Im just speechless how it all went downhill after z
In story narrating stand point yeah it really did go downhill
@AvarageGamingGamer It did.
Thats because Dbs has all the issue majin boo saga did but multiplied by x10.
One of my biggest issues with super’s decision making, that just deeply baffled me on so many levels, was when zamasu is defeated and future trunks’s timeline is destroyed, why the hell do they just make up some brand new timeline to send him to? Where there will now be clones of himself and Mai? It was a perfect opportunity to bring him in as a permanent stay in the main cast, and would have been awesome as an addition in the tournament of power. I just find it an incredibly jarring and strange ending to an already messy arc
Him returning if the decision was made, was the perfect opportunity to bring him back with a much more _mature_ look at this point; an open opportunity to give him the Bojack look from that movie. A perfect opportunity.
Not only that but They could have made Trunks be the last Person standing in the universal survival saga and he wishes back his timeline or something
@@therealone844 as hype as Goku teaming up with Frieza for that final push was, can you imagine if the final team was Future Trunks, 17 and Frieza? Trunks humiliated Freiza in a way no one did before or after and Trunks would no doubt have some trust issues working with 17 even knowing the present version isn't a monster, that team coming together would sell the teamwork message they pounded into Jiren even harder
@@zeroattentiongaming820Great Point and Not only that BUT also. I believe It was Stated That if Android 17 Didn't wish back the universes. Zeno would have Destroyed Everything because Of A selfish wish. I feel like there could have Been potential fleshing out The Gods Using Zeno. What if the writers of Dragon ball Wrote Zeno in a way where the whole point of the TOP is To show Gods that Mortals have a Fair chance and can sometimes be just as Righteous as a God or angel. That would have bounced off well From the Future Trunks arc because It would show that Zeno was paying attention to Zamasu concerns or something. So to prevent Any further Subordination. He uses the T.O.P to Prove a Point. Having Trunks wish back all universes and His Timeline would Have made a more heartfelt. Story.
Trunks and jiren would bounce off each other well because Trunks would have lost everything but still Fight with a team
While jiren lost everything and Fights with No one.
@@therealone844 realll
I think one thing Goku black arc did better in manga is giving a back story of how Trunks handled buu. Seeing Supreme Kai die and that rage unlocking Trunks SS2 and then he able to kill both Damura, Babidi and prevent buu from resurrecting. Plus due to death of Supreme Kai, Old Kai and Buu gave a nice opening to Zamasu beginning his plot.
To be honest there, Trunks shouldn't have _never_ returned to begin with. Like, the way he and Vegeta parted when ending the Cell saga was a perfect way to wrap up the character entirely when returning like so. OR. He could have returned, but remained in his future and given a spin-off of sorts. And a great after-credit way to re-introduce him in Super Hero by making Cell the main antagonist, instead of what we were given in such a horrible film and the usual being that clear cash grab.
@@LuminesBreezer--I agree Super Trunks tarnishes the story of DBZ trunks. Plus his outfit and design in Super is somehow worse 😭😭
My biggest issue with super is that it doesn’t care about anybody other than Goku/Vegeta for the most part.
They showed potential when they made that fight with master roshi and that bird guy and it was really good. Moments where they utilize these characters with their own strengths and weaknesses.
True. The Universe 6 arc was some straight up gaslighting, making it seem like it would be a fun tournament arc where Piccolo and Buu actually got to shine, then they removed Buu and gave Piccolo a 2 minute fight that he loses. Absolute garbage. It was the Goku and Vegeta show from start to finish. 😒😒
@@dangerousdays2052you have a point there. Most of the cast were done dirty
The two problems I have with Dragon Ball Super subseries not mentioned in the video is the flanderization of Goku and the regression of Vegeta. Goku does not feel like the Goku know anymore with him being flat-out stupid and Vegeta was just relearning the same lessons he already learned in Z.
agreed like goku went from a mature but naive and ignorant man to outright crayon eating toddler
@@zeeshanismail7768 Strongly agreed.
The characters are a bit better in the manga but the writing, plot holes are worse. It seem's to be brain rot. Vegeta's only a bit stronger but he's still a mid-class warrior who losing to anyone with the same power level as him. Gohan never finish off the main villain and he's a bit weaker than vegeta.
@@LoreCamargo-g8n i mean the manga exclusive stories are really good so far
Super as a whole felt much more kid-friendly, to be honest. A hand out to the generation after us.
Gas was weird, he felt like he was supposed to be a henchman before the final boss like Nappa was to Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, but Gas himself was weirdly the final boss.
@@MattTheHuman9 Gas to me is Z Broly if he didn't get to resolve his abuse. He very much feels like a pivot once Granola was no longer planned to be endgame.
Yeah I honestly don't even see him as the main antagonist. I think Elec fits more into that role
@@supergodultralid6391 Yeah I was expecting Elec to step up after Gas was defeated but the random introduction of Black Frieza made that irrelevant lol. The Black Frieza thing was a cool twist though.
the way i see it Elec is the main antagonist. halfway through the fight you realize that Gas isn't the real villain and he's only fighting cause Elec is abusive and pushing him beyond his limits for his own gain. having a villain that works from the sidelines like that is pretty unique for the series. it also makes the reveal that Elec is actually the weakest of them and having him get destroyed by Frieza work really well cause it completely shits on everything he'd built up. getting tossed aside by a real villain who doesn't rely on others to get things done is the perfect level of disrespectful
@noahmarshall873 Elec feels weird cause he barely knows the main characters and has no dynamic with them. None of them even are involved in his death cause he just set himself up. Gas doesn't even get to make that revelation. He just abuses his brother and then dies to someone who doesn't care either way. Tbh outside UE the arc could be skipped with no real changes to anything. His siblings are dead or with Frieza, Granola is probably also dead, and frieza is stronger.
Goku did give Frieza a chance. It was only after Frieza decided to attack him again was when Goku attempted the finishing blow. It's the same with Goku vs Moro. Goku decided to kill moro when he saw that Moro still wanted to continue eating others. With kid buu it's completely different since he's litersy just a mindless beast who knows nothing but chaos.
Furthermore, with Goku and Moro, Goku didn't know about the hand that had Meerus' powers. Apart from that perspective it was about proving a point for Goku. Goku's conversation with Jaco is great, and shows goku still choosing his human side. Goku stuck to his guts and ideals. If the hand with Meerus' powers wasn't there Goku, from his perspective, had the situation totally under control. From Goku's perspective Moro could literally do nothing, he was completely outclassed by MUI Goku. Of course it backfired, but I actually think it's a really good scene that speaks to Goku's character.
The best way to watch dragon ball super:
Dragon Ball Z: Battle The Gods.
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F
Dragon Ball Super (Universe 6 Arc DvD)
Dragon Ball Super
(Goku Black Arc DvD)
Dragon Ball Super
(Tournament Of Power Tv Or DvD)
Problem with Moro is how padded out and drawn out the boring storyline was. Then when Goku gave Moro a chance it was jusr another lazy copied storyline.
Except that the battle went on so you had to wait another month. I despise DB Super. It takes any potential issue with DBZ and makes it 100x worse
The problem is that threw Goku development in Z out of the window. After Frieza Goku understood that not everyone deserved to have second chance. And guess what he yelled Gohan to finish Cell and understood the only way Kid Buu can have second chance is by reincarnation. Goku should have understood Moro’s character by that time already and understood this goat can’t have second chance and it didn’t even take a rocket scientist to know that he can fused with Earth and reversed the situation right there.
@@Zhijia494Whether he didn't know, doesn't change that they reversed his character development as he learned this lesson after Frieza which is why he told Gohan to finish off cell while he had the chance and took the first chance he had to put down buu when he realized that leaving the younger generation to take up the mantle wasn't the thing to do then and he should've done so before and does it with kid buu.
They did trunks so freaking dirty. In the end his entire home universe is still destroyed. No, just no.
Moro felt like combination of all major Dragon Ball villains in a way.
His initial goal was to regain his youth, his prime, which he accomplished like King Piccolo
He invaded Namek like Frieza did.
Cell was programed to evolve the way he did, so his appearance wasn't based on the things he absorbed, but Buu's absorptions were more organic like Moro's, he takes the appearance of the absorbed entity.
And the way he became unhinged and wanted to blow up the earth was very Cell like.
He is basically all of them combined.
DB Supers biggest problem is fan-service.
ningen
Super sucks
Indeed. But overall Super feels like one of those early fan-made mangas you read on internet
Fan service can be good, but I think Super is a strong example of taking fan service too far
@@Th3Kingism Looool no it didn't. There hasn't been fanservice in Dragon Ball since the orginal with Bulma and then briefly in some filler with Krillin's gf. Cope harder. 😂😂
Finally a real fan that can stop glazing and actually break down a series they love and be critical and logically break it down.
Exactly
For me, some my problems with the arcs are the following:
• Beerus, while still an enjoyable character, was more of a malevolent character and a bully in the battle of gods arc than he was in the movie version.
• Tagoma, despite being given more to do in the resurrection F arc, was even more of a wasted character than in the movie.
• Ginyu was a wasted character in the resurrection F arc.
• Goku's fight with Frieza was worse in the resurrection F arc, and it made less sense for Goku to give him a second chance. Not to mention that Goku's battle IQ during the fight in the arc was significantly reduced in comparison to the movie, as Goku not only needed help figuring out Frieza's weakness, but his tactics on how to weaken Frieza were just plain bad in comparison to the movie version.
• I honestly think that Vegito's fight with fused Zamasu was more strength accurate in the manga than the anime.
• I honestly think that the anime version of the tournament of power was overall better than the manga's rushed version.
• Despite the clear callbacks to previous arcs, I think that the Moro arc was overall good.
• Black Frieza came out of nowhere and is still left unresolved. Frieza overall has been in this series too long.
The anime ToP is better but all over the place. If the manga showed more fights and didn’t have UI Roshi it could’ve been the superior version.
MORO ARC IS GOATED. Great thoughts btw you seem to have taken a good amount of time writing them all down which I appreciate
@@ashura9706 Nothing wrong with UI Roshi. Roshi knowing the principals of UI make sense and he had to remind Goku of his martial artist roots. It goes with UI being foreshadowed since DB thanks to him and Mr.Popo.
@@beegpappa7900it’s not even that being the problem mainly he shouldn’t have been able to out maneuver jiren… roshi could’ve still said what he said originally and it would make sense but that part specifically was just bad call
Frieza is what makes it feel like a Space Opera. Frankly he was the only interesting parts of Super for me, especially in ToP. Vegeta aka the Prince of all L’s should go.
Moro was great up until he became a cell clone. Like all super sagas interesting concept then they fumble
Nah that form is way overhated. Idk why people hate on it so much. It looks really cool
@@Immitis-ct7ic … cause it’s a straight cell copy. It also removed anything distinct about moro like his goat features
@Immitis-ct7ic he's a copy of Cell and doesn't make him interesting
@@BM-sg1sl Moro lost his sauce when his magic stopped working cause they were to fast and in general just became a brawler. Gas was more creative in his techniques than Moro.
Yeah that goat form was the best imo
I think with perfected super saiyan blue in the manga, it's similar to the boost from regular Ssj to Ssj grade 4 in the Cell Saga. One can't compete with 17 and 18, while the other is able to almost go toe to toe with Perfect Cell. So normal Ssb struggling with Merged Zamasu, to perfected ssb being ok par, to slightly better then isn't that crazy to me. I am aware that there was a whole year of training that happened in the time chamber between ssj and ssj grade 4, however, the gap isn't as big in the Goku black arc. 17 and 18 to perfect cell is a massive gap
I believe the Goku Black arc in the manga to be overrated. It has many aspects where it is better than the anime, but I believe it to also do a lot of the things worse.
While I believe the fights and character's intelligence was done much better in the manga, many plot holes and asspulls are almost way more prominent than in the anime. Like Goku Black getting a Zenkai Boost while Goku no longer can even tho Zamau is inside an older version of Goku. Trunks just having healing powers just because he was a Kai apprentince so he can magically rescue Mai and Gowasu. Zamasu and Goku Black being Supreme Kai enough to use Time Rings but not enough to stay fused permanently. Goku Black getting away with asking Zuno questions but Zamasu in the present who followed the same pattern gets caught. Alright? Though of course Goku Black meeting Goku when he was still an apprentince also made no sense in the anime.
As cool as it is, SSJ Goku Black also makes no sense. Considering he should only have God Ki (the ki is more bound to the soul while the body is more an amplifier, if you can control it, see Ginyu), how is he able to turn regular SSJ? Shouldn't happen. An issue the anime did not have.
In addition I believe Zamasu and Goku Black's motive and dialogue was much better in the anime, such is their relationship.
Fused Zamasu too is imo much cooler in the anime, since he is finally not a brute and actually a godly being, fitting much more to Zamasu. The manga turned him into a brute like basically all villains before him. Also him turning corrupted as he has a mortal side to him is much more logical than Fused Zamasu being completely invincible in the manga.
Infinite Zamasu, stupid in both, but way too out of nowhere in the manga. What exactly happened that Zamasu all of a sudden could create clones? Why did regular Zamasu and Goku Black turn into more Fused Zamasus? Just because they didn't properly defuse? Fused Zamasu had multiple limbs cut off, no new Zamasu grew from those. And 10 Zamasus in the end, turned out of nowhere to multiple thousands in like 1 or 2 minutes. Also, according to Gowasu, Zamasu and GB fused on a cellular level cause they are the same person. What? They inhabit two separate bodies, how is that possible?
Both anime and manga have a crap ton of problems, but the manga is absolutely not much better than the anime. It's a 50/50, each doing something better than the other. Ending was crap in both.
Though overall I enjoyed the arc in both media. In the anime I liked Zamasu's moments at the beginning of the arc, where he is slowly turning more evil, while in the manga I really love that Gowasu still tries to save Zamasu (GB) yet gets shown that he is a lost soul.
Yappachino just to be wrong
@@ScorchedTemales Answerino without counter point
@aurorasdrawingcorner first you dont understand how ki works if goku black was only using his godly ki he'd be in super saiyan god at all times instead of the black hair and eyes we all know and love about goku
@@ScorchedTemales First, none of us know how ki works, we never get a proper explanation, and second, Goku still retained the God Ki even after the transformation wore off, so Goku Black's Ki was directly infused into the body's base form, just like Goku did. Goku Black can not have base Ki, it's even said in the Frieza arc that the body is just an amplifier for the strength, a tool you have to use correctly. And if you believe I don't understand how ki works, explain why just the soul switch changed blue to rosé? If Ki has nothing to do with the soul, tell me why GB has no access to Blue and only has Rosé? Because Goku Black is actually a deity who only owns and uses God Ki, it's even written in the manga. It's also mentioned that Zamasu's ki felt similar to Goku Black's. How can that be if it's not linked to the soul?
@aurorasdrawingcorner well i actually re read the manga
After black achieves SSR he mentions his "divine" soul and gokus "saiyan" body are finally properly combining which could be the reason of him using normal ssj instead of the power of the gods also lack of experience with saiyan body
It honestly feels like super is constantly writing itself into corners so as a result we get Mastered SSB, and SSJ Rage to kill the threat that was made too strong.
They had years to fix the goku black ending since anime came before the manga, so its not even like they wrote themself in the corner since they had years to think of a better ending. More than likely they wanted mastered ssb to be the good written ending
8:45 Goku wasn’t gonna kill Frieza until Frieza attacked him, Which i don’t think if Goku had the choice he would ever kill his opponents..
yeah he's known for sparing his opponents.
Why would he spare kid Buu? The man was out of control and had no mind and was trying to destroy and kill everything. Frezia and Moro are different
@@Detectivewondertainment Frieza and Moro are no different than buu, they can just form sentences
@@kingpeso4240 By different I mean they WERNT trying to blow up the planet the second they achieved their final forms
He put a rabbit on the moon.
Everytime I rewatch Super I start from the Goku Black arc. But it’s still the most cash grab arc outside of Resurrection F.
Point 1: It literally doesn’t make sense. Logically Future Trunks shouldn’t be able to go back into the current DB timeline. When they defeated Cell the time lines splintered. Tbh they split before that but still, he should’ve went back and saw himself and whatever his world looked like in that age, not the universe where everyone survived.
Point 2: if they were gonna do and screw their entire logic, it should been Gohan Black due to Goku being dead, the Zamasu from trunks timeline wouldn’t have known Goku to ever exist since he was dead for a while, making it Gohan would’ve added several different stakes to the story. Making trunks have more reason to be scared of the main villain, a reason to be the one to kill him, and also could’ve shown us what Gohan’s true power looked like before beast was created. Giving our Gohan a reason to train again but to use his rage in a proper way. So whenever beast is revealed to us it would’ve been his power and how he used it.
It could’ve been like 100 damn birds with one stone but I guess I can only dream. Idk how they went with that story beat.
I'll feel like when Trunks returned was it _always_ that, not to be a dick to the guy? Just him losing that affection for his own series slowly when giving us the nonsensical like so.
I dont think you understood the timelines, like at all. Goku black is not from the timeline where goku is dead
Fortunately for you, sparking zero gave us that type of story line honestly
Except gohan is also dead, did you not see the history of trunks tv special? That wouldn’t make sense either, because that’s how trunks became a super saiyan by gohan dying lol
@ yes but gohan’s death is closer in time than Goku’s who died a decade prior. Even excluding how Goku’s or Gohan’s body is taken. Gohan being the villain just makes more sense plot wise.
Personally, Future Trunks' final form doesn't bother me that much. My biggest problem was that Trunks destroying Zamasu was incredibly badass and then it turns out he wasn't dead and Zeno had to come and kill him for good, it undermined everything that happened in the arc up until that point and felt lazy as hell. Like, why didn't Goku think of that from the beginning?
I would've appreciated about another 10 minutes worth. Critiquing the ending to the Goku Black/Zamasu arc, comparing the ending of the Universal Survival Arc in the manga and giving DBS Broly recognition as well as the Super Hero movie and manga.
My problems with Super as a whole:
- Retelling the Battle of Gods movie but with so much padding and bad animation
- The entirety of Resurrection F
- Not doing enough to explain how Android 17 got strong enough to keep up with Super Saiyan Blue Goku
- Doing absolutely nothing with Majin Buu
- Future Trunks in general and the end of the Goku Black Arc
- Power scaling in the Tournament of Power
- Everything to do with Bardock from DB Minus retconning Bardock: The Father of Goku to his fight with Gas to his potentially lore breaking wish (if he actually made it)
- Dragon Ball Super Hero's art style and Beast Gohan being a blatant retread of his Super Saiyan 2 moment in the Cell Saga
- Moro borrowing too much from Cell
- The Granolah Arc in general just being meandering and aimless. So much so Frieza had to come in and personally end it.
No such thing as “retconning bardock: the father of goku” thats a bs complaint😂 that film was never canon in the first place so its not a retcon, its like saying broly got retconned even though he was never in the real story until super
@@Samir-rd8xp Toriyama did include a panel of him exactly how he was in FoG so the character has always been canon even if you want to dispute the story. Still, Z Bardock was popular enough where they could have implemented him exactly how he was in the special instead of making him a less interesting Jor El.
I agree that Granolah Arc definitely wasn't as great as Moro but I can say that the backstory and exposition we got had me hooked instantly and I was all for it at the time
for me granolah is a more interesting antagonist than moro he had a past, justifications and devlopment something we dont see in most dragon ball antagonists. Gas would be more interisting if we got deeper into his past
Yeah all the backstory and world building during the Granolah arc was fantastic.
@@SaiyanZ_DB I would almost even say that Granola wasn't the antagonist, but actually the protagonist of the first half of the arc. We get more focus on him and Vegeta provides the perfect foil. Once the Heeters get fully involved and Gas becomes the strongest, it shifts back over to Goku, as Gas is his foil.
Merged divine Zamasou shattering time and reality really jumped the shark.
The anime was entertaining all around. I could ignore most flaws save for the end of the GB arc
The Moro arc was a rehash of the Cell saga
The Granola arc was all a build up to Black Frieza
a few things looking similiar dosent make it a rehash
Granolah arc built up multiple things.. goku's UI (and him understading saiyan's pride), vegeta's character, granolah's devlopment, bardock flashback and freeza development
How is Moro a rehash a of the Cell Saga?
@trolly6451 an old character absorbing energy, the Z fighters training to fight the threat, the villain devouring people, the villain absorbs an android to transform, Goku gives the villain a senzu bean, the villain becomes a time bomb.
Cell is best in Z. Moro is best in Super. Too similar for their own good 🙂↔️
people who actually think the cell saga and moro saga are the same are definitely not Dragonball fans
Moral of the story, GT is the end of Dragonball.
All of the other shit is nothing but the dream he's having while riding on the back of Shenron while ascending to a new plane of existence.
10:03 Gas wasn't the main villain tho, Elec was. Gas was a puppet which Elec used, read the arc again.
I think Goku learning about Bardock in the Granolah arc was one of the mangas saving points.
No it wasn't.
And even then, nothing has been done with that
@@dralx2042he developed a whole new version of UI from it and the arc after that was more centered on the others just be patient
@@T4ble0 and in the newer chapters, he's gone right back to using MUI.
@@dralx2042
the new arc didnt even start, bro what are you on ?
he used mui because he wasnt actually fighting he claims that he only wanted to test gohan's strength we would see it in the next arc.. like bro everyone who shits on the manga didnt actually read it
I mean I recall Toriyama saying that Fused Zamasu wasn't supposed to be THAT powerful and I don't even think he even initially wanted to include Vegito at all
Edit:
Also this is the same manga that had Gohan vs Kefla so it's not out of the question that some characters were supposed to be weaker or stronger than in the anime
Yep, you're completely right. That was Toriyama's original vision. Thats why a fully healed Goku was able to take out Fused Zamasu after defusing Vegito in the manga
I like to think that fusing (either way) requires two beings that are compatible with one-another to be truly effective. Trunks/Goten, Vegeta/Goku and Kale/Caulifla are all friends/rivals and the same species. Whilst Goku Black and Zamasu might *technically* both be the same person, they're not. They're a saiyan fusing with a kai.
For me. Future trunks rage form makes sense. It's like we all forgot about all the times gohan got mad and got stronger than everyone. They're both half saiyan
the ambiguity of SSRage is what makes it really frustrating and given that future trunks will never return it will never be explained what exactly SSRage is and how is it able to take trunks from at best buu saga level to fused zamasu level
even gohan in superhero arc was at least pre - A73 moro level before his beast transformation
and he can't control its full power without losing control
in the super hero movie it we are told that gamma 1 and 2 are believed by piccolo to be on par with Goku and vegeta (even if take into account that last piccolo saw them was in moro arc that still puts the gammas at pre-angle powers moro level) and gohan was able to box with them without them one shottng him so gohan was probably some where around moro level before hs beast form
Yeah for me it’s like the prototype for Beast
It makes perfect sense. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Broly all have at least one moment when they're genuinely angry and get ridiculously stronger. Even Cabba only goes Super the first time because Vegeta makes him mad.
Aaahh… I can’t agree with the Gas stuff. The Heeters were the antagonists the entire time and them doing what they did was obvious if you were paying attention. Gas isn’t too interesting, but he is Goku’s enemy in the same way Granolah was Vegeta’s. He serves to highlight Goku’s issues in both his understanding of himself and what he believes. He’s also not that interesting because he was indoctrinated by his older brother into being a sacrificial tool, and his actual personality is that of a child seeking validation.
Exactly. Big Tune had me worried with those takes.
Elec was the real antagonist
I really love the pokemon music in the background
I really like how immortality is handled in the black manga arc. Being cut into pieces and forming more zamasu was just cool. Maybe it doesn't make any sense but I liked the manga and anima at different points better. In my head canon I take parts from each lol
Future Trunks' arc problem is that they got lost with that time travel 💩. Trunks should be the hero.
Now what is left is listing a problem with every arc from DB Classic
I like the idea that “super saiyan rage” was actually Future trunks unconsciously using a technique like the spirit bomb and gathering energy from everyone to power himself up.
It would tie into the sword of hope trunks uses at the end, and fit the vibe of future Trunks in general.
Idk why people hate on Moro’s Cell-looking form so much. As a Cell fan myself, I think it looks awesome, especially when he gets UI
Because it shows limited creativity on character design
Because it is lazy, they cant be creative and create a new villain arc so they just take a story from a fan favorite one
Cause it’s generic asf and his other ones were better.
Though tbf I like imperfect cell as a design and character more than the later 2
I wish there werent issues between Capsule Corp & Shueisha so the manga characters could appear in Sparking Zero and see Toei animate it
Best music of all the db vidz out there
what's the music used?
My head cannon for future Trunks is when training with Vegeta him going blue some of that god ki
stuck into Trunks manifesting into the SSJ Rage form
that's why the blue hue
My biggest problem with Super is that Goku doesn't feel that mature and the BIG jump in power.
Bro just watched like four of your vids in a row. Subbed. Keep doing your thing bro
Irunks’ should’ve gotten god. He deserves a drastic power boost the most. He should have had a short arc where he trained with Vegeta, and Vegeta takes it upon himself to teach him godly ki and how to access it.
This would mirror and contrast their training in the time chamber, where Vegeta learns from Goku, and actually trains with Trunks rather than training separately.
The jump from normal Ki to Godly Ki is big enough for the gap between black and Trunks to not be an issue anymore, and if he has acces to that kind of Ki it wouldn’t be farfetched to think he could beat a weakened fused Zamasu with the SB sword.
The issue of god being eclipsed so fast in the anime wouldnt be an issue had it been given to trunks, and he used the form so it got it’s time to shine.
What could this series have been if writing was more mindful of power creep or a menacing enemy with a true sense of despair
The fights in the manga felt a bit more repetitive and held that prediction when clashing like so.
I feel lonely being the only person who loves Gas 😅
Moro better. To each their own tho. My brother likes him
You missed some important narrative issues. The story of DBS is narratively ruined from the get go. As soon as the Z Fighters make friends with Beerus and Whis, there are no more stakes in the story. When you have the 2 most powerful ( at that point) characters being your friends, nothing bad can happen. Then we learn that there is someone stronger than them (Xeno) and Goku befriends him right away. It’s so stupid, it’s basic storytelling ignored. Then they ruined Trunks. Yes ruined him. Because his arc was over, there was nothing else to say about him. But they brought him back in a much worse version of himself ( both physically and story wise), and worse, they destroyed all that he accomplished. All that he did in Z was for nothing because his world is dead. So they took Trunks, made him lame, and destroyed what he did in the past. The level of incompetence on this show is staggering…
These opinions tell me you didn't read or watch it
@@freakinduckbut is he entirely wrong though?
@joshuahackshaw7703 yes. Most of the time, Berrus and Whis don't give a shit about saving Goku, Vegeta, or anyone. Goku befriending god is just classic dragon ball shit and Trunks' arc was not ruined just because you didn't like it. I never liked Gohan studied more than trained, I don't like that Vegeta was in Goku's shadow for all of DBZ, and I don't like that the saiyans don't have tails. Doesn't mean it's bad and that I should whine about it like a baby.
@@freakinduck okay then if that’s your opinion then I’ll leave that with you
The piano in the background makes this feel like a Huey Freeman narration
I like gas because of his design.
Story wise he’s just an absurdly strong jobber -_-
Am I the only one that noticed the song is the beginning is “Don’t You See!” Which is one of the GT endings and imo the best?
[2:23] I mean but actually that wasn’t entirely the case exactly cause Toyotaro did do a spin off promotional manga story for the ROF saga and was actually pretty decent cause it was more similar towards the movie adaptation than compared to the anime version but even for the anime version of the DB resurrection of ‘F’ saga I didn’t really think it was that bad compared toward the original theatrical version that was already out, I really only saw it as just an longer variation of the same story that they could’ve simply done without when looking back on it.
the spinoff released before super become a thing
but tbh skipping the arc was good it was the worst arc anyways and they had to start a new arc already
It’s insane to me that we still don’t have an official explanation for Super Saiyan Rage
Great video! You have a great POV
To be fair in the Moro saga frieza got a second chance. He even told frieza “I hope I never see your face again.” He was only forced to finish him due to frieza fighting back just as Moro, and kid buu even got a second chance, where goku outright stated he wishes to meet him again as a good guy, which is why uub came out
You cant say trunks ssj blue transformation is lazy when you love ssj god which is basically 5 people holding hands
Fun videos and nice breakdowns (the dbz one and this one). What annoyed me about the tournament of power was the time of it. A lot happened in 48 minutes or how ever long it was.
My only major issue was the ending of the Goku Black arc. Trunks should have killed Zamasu and use the Super Dragonballs to restore his timeline. It could have been that simple
Frieza and Moro are very dangerous imagine if there was an arc that they worked together to defeat Goku
Respect the fact you didn't indulge in the comments.
Problem for me in dragon ball is simple.
Two options: introduce a villain who fights the human Z warrior in their base and second forms. Then when the villian is pissed off transforms into 3rd form and it becomes too much for human Z warriors so Piccolo steps in, he goes on few rounds with him until hes don't too, show Piccolo stronger than human Z warriors but not by too much, then either show Gohan or Goten and Trunks. They do abit better than Piccolo and Lastly when the villain is in their final form Goku and Vegeta show up to take it to the end.
Second option: introduce more than one villain, one is primary and other or others are secondary. Now divide the Z warriors into groups and have each group fight a certain villain.
Isn't the second option the moro arc and why do people want to see the humans fight so much after all aren't they just humans there is no need for them to have a major villain
me personally:
bog & res f were fine as movies, we didn’t need poorly made retellings of the stories
universe 6 arc is fine, wished the anime followed the manga and had goku swap between ssg and ssgss cuz we don’t need to see the blue hair 24/7 when he has different transformations- makes the other transformations useless when they could’ve found a way to keep ssj and ssg relevant
black arc coulda been better if they didn’t let goku and vegeta travel back in time cuz if a post buu arc trunks can barely handle black but is still putting up a fight, then both vegeta and goku would realistically curb stop black and zamas, would’ve been cooler if they had trunks learn some kinda technique to save his own world instead of going back into the past, or maybe make black stay in the present universe, another issue i have is the ending- feels like the wrote themselves into a corner and was like “oop we messed up- gotta delete that-“ yeah forget all the survivors and all the history trunks made there yeah…..
tournament of power was honestly fine in both versions lol
i can’t say much else abt the manga, haven’t read it- but from what i’ve heard, moro is basically cell… and granola is mid- bardock comes back for no reason-? feels out of character for bardock to be so nice- that’s probably cope tho from them retconing him- making gokus backstory super man part 2….
One thing i can't forgive the manga for is ruining the logic of the Super Saiyan God form. The Battle of Gods movie made it clear, that Goku absorbed the power and strength of the God form into his base form, therefor there'd be no reason to use the form again. Also the form clearly required the ritual to achieve it. Manga completely crapped on that logic
Super arcs of anime and manga (sometimes movies) i perfer
Battle of Gods:Movie
Resurrection f: Movie
Universe 6 saga:Anime
Goku black saga:Thats a very hard one but manga by a little
Tournament of power: Anime by a little
Superhero arc: Manga,But some of the fights in the anime were better for me
That's it for now👍
Edit : I forgot superhero
Agreed
good list
@@BucketWasTakenTwice Thx
for me id say
BOG: manga
res f: anime
universe6: both were the same but id go with the anime
goku black: manga was way better
TOP: its hard but id go with manga since it handeled UI better
Super Saiyan Rage is a little higher than God but lower than Blue.
I mean…mastered ssb beating merged Zamasu makes more sense. Because there’s no reason as to why merged Zamasu is that broken along with Black
5:48 Vegito just finished beating up Zamasu. He was worn down by the time Goku perfected Blue
ive been trying to find this piano rendition of azalea town this entire time wish me luck boys
Good video
Dragon Ball Super is just new transformations to sell new toys.
Very well done video. You edited this?
Also, I just finished the Granolah arc, and it’s way better than I remembered it. Your problems with it I can see, but those aren’t that major or problems to me.
Ah yes finally someone understood that the moment when Goku attempted to spare Moro is super duper stupid and should not be there at all, if Grand Supreme Kai doesn’t go to Uub to save the day, Earth is literally done for. And most people got the nerve to praise that moment due to nostalgia from Z which is not even true when the last opponent Goku attempted to spare in Z is freaking Frieza.
@@Enity-qb4gp Yet a literal pre-near end of Z Goku threw away the potara earings and wanted to test his own power against Kid Buu, if not for the spirit bomb Goku and Vegeta would've died. Goku even jokes about it. So your point is weak. Have all this for Super but not Z, Goku chooses to spare people when he wants to, just like how Goku chooses when to be serious when he wants. Goku has been taught like a martial artist no hero of justice. He fights to get stronger and get entertainment from battle, using his ability to kill his opponents is something they are taught to heavily restrict from doing, Goku will always try to spare someone before instantly killing them, Kid Buu was the exception not at all the explanation. Gokus' character arc is about finding happiness and acceptance with himself whilst also pushing others past their transgressions, he has change in some of his actions but almost ALL of Gokus friends were his enemies, people who tried to kill him, people who can destroy planets. Goku is rewarded for his overwhelming consistency to his martial teaching which is why Beerus even speaks about Gokus weird aura and how fascinating as a person he is. This isn't really anything but just being consistent. Goku will endanger earth to make new friends, it sounds insane but that's what makes his character much more subversive than heroically generic
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 Counterpoint: Kid Buu doesn’t want or know to use ki control, Goku knew that his ssj3 can go on toe with Buu at that point but he miscalculated the energy drain of ssj3. Also did you even read or watch the show? They didn’t even need the Spirit Bomb to win, that is just Vegeta’s idea for the Earthlings to take responsibility to protect their own home. Literally all they need is ask KibitoKai to teleport back to Earth, take Gohan there and let him beat Kid Buu, that was even what Goku thought Vegeta wanted at first and showed no sign of objection. Also also Goku doesn’t try to spare everyone when he wants to, he just knew which one deserved to have second chance, that is what he understood after Frieza Saga. Keyword he only spared because he understood they can be no harm anymore like 18 or Buu not he wanted to? See your points are weak now. Also also also, guess that jn your mind Goku’s friends only have Vegeta and Piccolo so you can utter that almost ALL of his friends try to kill him at some points, Krillin, Bulma, Master Roshi, Chichi, Yajirobe, Satan never did that, I’m generous so I will let you do the math and see if your ALMOST is like a bit more than 1/2. He is not an ally of justice yeah but he wanted to protect Earth more than go around beat people up. Okay not counting Super cause that thing is stupid, after Frieza when did Goku try to endanger the Earth after knowing fully the risk of it I am
waiting.
@@Enity-qb4gp 1. Ki control or not Goku was legit struggling against Kid Buu and couldn't defeat him on his own with SSJ3 since it has terrible Ki drain. "I want to fight using my own power" is what he says proving Goku would rather fight bu himself instead of fusing which wouldve easily dealt with Buu. Goku knows the form has abysmal flaws yet decides to battle with his own power. That is creating more consequences than solutions and no. Goku had NO way of beating Kid Buu without fusion or spirit bomb. He wouldve gotten dominated horribly.
2. Goku doesn't kill Fat Buu when he has the chance because he wanted to see little kids do the job because of course they wouldn't be overconfident and cocky.
3. The Goku vs Majin Vegeta fight? Do I even need to specify on that. Vegeta murdered people right in front of Goku yet he still goes on to have a one off battle and doesn't even Go full power getting his shit knocked out. Really not endangering earth or so by being his usual merciful self. Goku does this so many times, why didn't he just defeat Vegeta quickly if he had legitimately proved that he was being pure evil in that moment?
@@Enity-qb4gp So you actually think Goku would've won without the spirit bomb? If anything at least Mui Goku was actually stronger than Moro, Goku in Ssj3 legit just played 50/50 with a nonsensical brainless chaotic psychopath. Goku most likely even trusted moro since he has some form of logic, being able to communicate and such whilst Kid Buu is straight up a dumb illiterate psychopath.
@@Enity-qb4gp He spares when he wants to because Martial artist aren't mentally trained to motivate in killing people. In Z Goku makes many mistakes and recuperates by killing them himself or defeating them for the time being like Frieza.
I think the manga and anime need a remake where they combine aspects of both stories and try perfecting it so that there is one continuity
I wonder how db super would be viewed if we only ever had the red hair transformation and went straight from God form to ultra instinct.
5:26 I can see what you mean. But remember this is nothing new. Back then, Ssj would absolutely get wrecked by Imperfect Cell if they were to ever have fought. And yet mastered Ssj destroys Semi-perfect Cell, and can even give supressed Perfect Cell a good fight.
The biggest problem is that they screwed up with fusion. Blue Vegito should not have struggled even a millimeter. They also f***ed it up by making the time extremely limited, especially with how short it lasted in the manga.
Now that you mention it trunks form was actually stupid asf😭😭
need to do this video idea for DBS Broly and Super Hero, and should also do all the sagas in GT as well! great video!
National Park theme so underrated
Nice music choice
whats the song btw
Apparently Fused Zamasu is supposed to be Perfected Blue level but for fan service they tossed Vegito in
Honesty, what should have happened in the Goku Black arc is this. Future Trunks should've trained with Vegeta and started to learn about how to use God Ki. Unfortunately, he doesn't learn much as Black comes to the main timeline like he does in the original. Goku and Black have their fight, Black leaves, they follow, but only Vegeta and Goku go, as Vegeta has Whis handle Trunks' training in God Ki. They fight like they do in manga, and when all seems lost, Trunks comes in to help having learned enough to sustain a Super Saiyan God form. There could be some weird timey wimey stuff. Basically, saying it's been weeks in the main timeline, but only let's say an hour for Goku and Vegeta. Through their combined efforts, they try to defeat Fused Zamasu, but they are still having a tough time. Trunks has his rage moment pushing him to Super Saiyan Blue instead of some new form we've never seen and this allows Goku and Vegeta to power up as they all defeat him together, with Trunks dealing the final blow
So fr Merged Zamasu would've actually annihilated Goku Perfected Blue or not if Toriyama made sense
This is more “things I don’t like” than actual problems
5:25 Where are those images from? I hadn't seen before those characters in that artstyle (vegito, and also before in the video goku, vegeta and black).
Where did you find those images, bro?
Great video btw!
2:20 fortunately for what?😟
Holy brainrot
Gas and his gang was the perfect time to use Bojack smh
My biggest issue with the black star GT saga was its comedy vs serious mix and how much it focuses on Goku. Goku handles all the fights .Trunks was there any barley did anything or even transformed into super sayain. Pan didn’t fight much either . And with goku in a younger state it would be interesting for the other Allie’s to explore . Uub was introduced and forgotten for a while . Half the enemies were jokes. It would be a great opportunity for characters like Tien, Yamcha and those who didn’t go to Namik to explore space and have relevant fights. You could have Vegeta and Gohan say they have to stay on earth to protect it and the weaker people go to space . Imagine Tien finding out his alien heritage and an arc like that. I always felt that the outer space and universe of Dragonball was heavily underexplored beyond the sayains freiza and Namik. Like Freeza was an emperor of the galaxy and his death as well as the death of his father must’ve caused a huge shake up. Imagine the countless planets civilizations and aliens out there to fight and explore.
5:48 well we’ve seen that full power super is a significant power boost over the same form
You kinda just skipped over the top... I wanted to hear more specific examples of the wonky scaling
Dragon ball Z also has issues with power scaling. For example Yamcha when he is spotted by Android 19 is strong enough to effortlessly curb stomp final form Freeza.
19 mistook him for Goku and said he meets Goku’s expected power level.
The last time they checked Goku’s power level was when he fought Vegeta where he reaches 32,000 using Kaioken x4. A year prior he reached 900 doing a Kamehameha on raditz. When they first met him he was at 50.
So, in age 750 Goku’s level is at 50. In age 762 he reaches 32,000. That’s a 640x increase in 12 years. And going from 900 to 32,000 in one year is a 35x increase. Lowballing and assuming they think he’s going to increase by 35x every year you have this 1,372,000,000. Namek Freeza is 120,000,000. They told everyone not to even show up unless they’re up to the challenge after being told the androids are more powerful than SSj Trunks and SSj Goku. And they just saw trunks effortlessly take out mecha Freeza who’s 160,000,000 and king cold who’s higher than that.
To be of use they’d need to be strong enough to take out Mecha Freeza at the least.
And based on the trends of how much increase Goku gets Yamcha would have to be in the billions to be mistaken as Goku.
So Android saga yamcha could very much curb stomp Freeza which is pretty ridiculous to the point a lot of people outright deny this even when you show them the facts.
Wait, that’s not all of them, there’s the Broly saga, the High School saga, and the Super Hero saga
Basically Super did not learn from any mistakes from previous Dragon Balls and Fan Service.
The granola arc just feels unfinished, they teased the black frieza just to stop making new chapters
My two biggest problems with Super are the unearned victories (and, in turn, the lack of victories for transformations) and the abuse of the Dragon Balls.
First off, the unearned victories are a two-fold issue: The fact that the major victories are unearned and that no transformation outside of UI Sign beating Kefla earns a victory. I do give a pass to Battle of Gods because the point was the appease Beerus, not defeat him, but that meant SSG never got a victory. In Resurrection F, Whis has to rewind time so Goku can steal the kill from Vegeta instead of, maybe, teleporting under Frieza to block the blast? In the twin universe tournament, Goku loses to Frost and excuses have to be made for him to get back in and then Goku has to mix Blue with Kaioken to beat Hit, and even then, forfeits the match so Monaka can secure a gag victory. (Edit: Forgot Monaka existed)
Goku Black Arc? Zeno button.
The Tournament of Power is nothing more than episode after episode of power-creeping and rule-breaking while "Mastered" Ultra Instinct works for only three minutes. In the Broly movie, SSB again gets no victory because Cheelai uses the Dragon Balls to disconnect Broly's router and Gogeta gets an error message mid-ultimate.
I never read the manga but from what I understand, Whis once again gives Goku the chance to beat the villain (Moro). And in the Granolah Saga, Frieza is the one to kill Gas.
And I have SO many problems with Super Hero that I don't know where to start.
With the Dragon Balls, they have been abused to the point that we are past the end of Z. They were used in Battle of Gods, Resurrection F (twice, as Bulma mentioned using them to wish back a city at the end), before the first tournament, between Goku Black and Tournament of Power, in Broly, in Super Hero, AND we know Bulma has made extra wishes for cosmetic enhancements, putting us well past Z and closer to GT.
And lastly, while this might fit better in a transformation video, I will say that Super Saiyan Rage has always made sense to me and is explained because Trunks is the only Saiyan to continue using the graded, bulky forms. In movies 8 and 9 (Broly 1 and Bojack), Trunks is shown to still be using the outdated Grade 2; in Super, during his outdoor training with his father, he uses Grade 3; and at (correction) 4:20, you show him powering up into Rage, where he momentarily BULKS UP before shrinking back down. And when he slims down is when the blue appears in his aura. Rage is Super Saiyan Grade 4! As if the blue energy is the power that filled his muscles and weighed him down has escaped, only to be trapped in his aura. He's earned this after more than a decade of staying on the one path every other Saiyan has ignored.
Rage and UI Sign are not only my favorite transformations, but the only ones to have proper build-up, execution, and a victory (despite Zamasu infecting the universe). God had a good build-up and a technical victory but a poor execution. Wishing for the ritual is... ugh. What I don't understand is the Chronoa existed at this point and having come in with a "hey, Lord Beerus, sorry. I let a well-meaning time-traveler split the timeline by giving the future Super Saiyan God heart medicine and that's why you can't find him. But if you're willing to listen, I have a solution!"
Rage and Sign get an S from me.
God a B+/A-
Every other form gets a C or D due to lack of depth and wins.
And then there's Orange Piccolo, who gets an F, an F-, a score of 0, maybe even a negative score. You do NOT wish for a transformation.
Goku and Vegeta not just going all out to destroy Goku Black immediately for me kind of unbelivable. Bro. He killed that universes version of your families. 😅
You missed a ark
Great video me personally tho I’m it watching Dragon ball for the story at this point
I always saw trunks super saiyan rage as trunks, gaining a tiny bit of god ki he's fighting with and against people using god ki so to me he's slapping god ki on super saiyan
8:49 Moro doesn't deserve a second chance, but Goku decided that after asking Moro if he was going to change or not. Just like when he initially spared Frieza before Frieza decided to sneak attack him. The senzu itself was also irrelevant since for all Goku knew, Moro did not copy Merus's power, and Moro wasted the senzu when he attacked and broke his arm.
Fair enough for the Whis thing, though it was really just the same method that Merus used.
5:48 Also, it is kinda of an asspull for Blue Goku to be even with merged Zamasu, but considering that the Gap in power between Vegito and Merged Zamasu is even larger than it was in the anime, and how Blue Vegeta in both versions was whooping Goku Black's butt and Zamasu really doesn't add too much power, Goku holding his own for only a small amount of time isn't too farfetched.
Moro needed more time to make Super readable before he passed and Goku obliged
The biggest problem is power creep if they did not do that the show would be way better
Power creep? They haven’t even surpassed the first villain of super yet
@@fatdurk7934bc he was the God of destruction beerus ? current base goku wipes everyone except ppl like jiren and broly , which includes ppl like kefla GoD toppo etc and probably even hired at this point if we’re taking the scaling they tell us
that start from db
@@fatdurk7934The first villain was Beerus who was made stronger and stronger by the author so Goku and Vegeta will not surpass him to soon, because they later realised how illogical is the powercrep in the manga (I hope).
Power creep is why the show should of ended after the Buu saga.
What was different in the Granola arc over the tournament of power that made the constant power jumps less an issue? Did the addition of UI and UE make a difference?
You’re right, it wasn’t less of an issue. It just wasn’t the biggest issue in that arc to me
@@ItsBigTune Fair. I was also curious you mentioned you enjoyed the Moro arc month to month and I remember in many reviews after it finished saying the arc was better as a binge. Do you prefer the gap?
Big pokemon Pearl/Diamond fan