2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2Ti 4:3 NIV)
And we are in that time. We are experiencing the great Falling Away. When Jesus returns (Luke 18:8), will He find faith in the earth? That means we are in the Beginning of Sorrows phase (Matthew 24:7-8) that must take place before the Rapture. As the world descends into greater and greater sin, lift up your head because your redemption draws high (Luke 21:28). Jesus is coming back and soon. And His reward is with Him (Revelation 22:12-13).
I was sitting in a Methodist Church back in 2018, and was stunned when the Pastor was defending gay marriage. It amazes me how some churches just blow off God's word.
@@JMcKey21 Or maybe the church had been attempting to carry off a 'mix' which at best is spiritual schizophrenia. It doesn't work because God doesn't change.
Dude, this is the kind and quality of journalism I wish I could see in all other domains of life in other channels and media networks. You are doing excellent reporting, sir! Keep up the good work!
So... every church in the US has abandoned Jesus? Cause they're all in a nosedive. Remember all the disaffiliated churches that were mentioned that have also closed?
Mainline Protestant churches (including the UMC) aren’t losing members because they are abandoning Christ. They’re losing members because they’re no longer relevant to most people in the generations under age 60. How many people want to get involved in an organization that’s constantly arguing over one issue after another? The less organized a religion is, the better.
Keep on pleasing people Methodists, and you'll find out that Jesus will say to you: I don't know you. They have made a fool of themselves, denying the truth of the Bible to pursue confirmation of people.
@@terrymeadows1827 How so? Aren't christians supposed to follow Jesus's words and actions. Instead they delve in to Leviticus to judge their neighbors, something their god told them explicitly not to do.
Always love how calm and objective these videos are, especially on topics that are typically filled with people arguing from places of pure emotion and/or prejudice
Sure! This video author is an absolute delight on the way he performs it and the other videos in his channel! And on the way he describes a so complex subject in a so small time framed video, coupled with a so visually appealing style! Congrats, because it is so rare to find someone who rightly does so! That said; I believe he is surely an Academic on this field and he knows very well what he's talking about!...
I argued from the Bible, and was told by a District Superintendent to only consider the words of Jesus. Sorry no, what a idiot. This was about money, the gays want the money and the land. They backed off and paused once they found out that most churches were deep in debt.
Wow, Josh, your research is astounding. I'm a United Methodist and have been following this issue for some time and have been trying to keep up with the GC. Still, Iearned from your video.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the the Specific portion/rebels of the United Methodist that have accepted/condoned the Act of homosexuality, will be condoning anything that enters their doors. Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
@@JohnPaul-ol5zl Your smearing and broad brushing a whole group of particular Christian, Methodists, based on the sins of some of them. How are your tactics any different as the those who cancel anyone who thinks different from them?
I went to a UMC college in the 1980s. I took religion classes taught by ordained UMC ministers. All those classes were just assembly lines to make atheists. Those men did everything they could to get people NOT to believe in God. They were successful in most instances. If I had not been a Christian for about 10 years and grounded in my faith, they might have been able to do me some harm. Instead, we had some heavy arguments. I was the only one in the class to disagree with them. I was not their favorite student.
As a former UMC member I urge Methodists to join a Bible study group that is biblically sound. My former UMC church quit doing Bible studies many, many years ago and only did topical studies. My eyes were opened by the word of God. Thank you for this update, I am praying for the church to repent and return to God’s truth.
@ChristianCatboy You are excluding part of the verse and taking its meaning out of context. The full verse is this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus, Verse 29 continues, "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." This statement is merely a statement about our equal value in the eyes of God. All followers of Christ, whether they are Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, have equal value in God's eyes.
@@MW-ty6zk Convenient of you to interpret it that way. Is slavery an appropriate social division to maintain between believers? The gender binary is the same kind of division.
It’s a sad day when people blatantly throw out God’s word. I can’t imagine how strong the mental gymnastics must be to justify affirming what God is explicitly against.
"can't imagine how strong the mental gymnastics.." Sorry but this is Religion projecting It's Christians that do the mental gymnastics when confronted with reality, and though many here don't realize it, they are doing it so when more and more people are no longer buying the fantasy sold by Religions. As a former Catholic/Christian long time Athiest, many here simply haven't started their journey out of their Religion and removed the shackles of indoctrination put on them since childhood.... But it will be worthwhile to begin that journey now.
@@AdmiralBisonI couldn’t disagree with you more. I am certain that God is real, that He came to Earth as Jesus, died as the punishment for my sin, and has reconciled me to Himself. I am not in any bondage whatsoever. I’ve never been more free. Jesus set me free from the bondage of sin.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the Methodist will be condoning anything that enters their doors. Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
A very very sad day.. I grew up in the UMChurch, married, children baptized and married there. This is the end of the United Methodist Church and the beginning of the end.
"Rainbow" churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the Gospel. I left the Episcopal Church when they abandoned the Gospel.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV The Christian church as a whole continues to rapidly deteriorate. We’re in the end days. Read your Bible. Pray. Ye must be born again. God bless.
Ahh, another crackpot beLIEving "the book" is to be worshipped ... and not the teaching of the person whose name is used to define the type of religion discussed here (ignoring the various sects' names being reproached). There are the same types of people holding up progress in society in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc who think "If we all follow THIS BOOK OF OURS, the world would be a better place". That idea doesn't work there, any more than it does here. Please don't vote.
Do you think it is "deteriorating" or as I KNEW what had to happen since I was a young boy...."destroyed"..."crushed'..."persecuted"...."REFINED in The FIRE"
Those who claim to know Christ but deny the Spirit. Take heed. We will all be held accountable for our choices and most importantly those choices that impacted others causing them to stray further from the truth.
Good news! There is only one church. The bride of Christ. Made up of those who believe in the shed blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Our names are recorded in the Book of Life in Heaven. No denominations there!
There IS only one remnant true church....this is just away for satan to get rid of churches...true Christians have God in their hearts.....they believe the eord.😢
There would still be one church if it wasn’t for Roman Catholicism..I swear every smug comment from Catholics is about this boastful ego insulting other denominations ,,more insulting them considering Orthodoxy as it’s “little brother” 🙄 In the schism split of 1054 the west engaged in heritcal acts making the Papal authority and adding things to the nicene creed like the Filioque clause. Hence the church split BECAUSE OF ROMAN CATHOLICS. Then in 1517 because of clergy abuse and the Catholic Church behaving like the Mafia there was another split because of the abuse of power Martin Luther skewed the book to took out parts where people couldn’t eventually abuse power he had to do that BECAUSE IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH do you see the trend? You can’t just boo hoo and complain about “one church” when the reason for 3 denominations it’s because of y’all to begin with! Then you always talk about “the orthodox should come back” attempting to verbally leave out Protestants because you feel like they are unworthy of the kingdom of heaven when Protestants and Orthodox at least have this one thing in common it’s because of the Catholic abuse they they exist in the first place.
As an African American Episcopal Methodist (AMEC) and I’m saddened by this…But for those who are traditionalists, GOD BLESS YOU! God is the same Yesterday, today and forever…..stand on the Word of God.
I totally understand why conservative churches left. The liberal bishops and clergy would ignore the Book of Discipline, therefore conservative victories with keeping the rules unchanged and in sync with traditional Christianity was meaningless!
Conservatives know the theological liberals will not cease until they aren't bent over. All over the mainline the conservatives seem to have grown tired of the fight and would rather just start off shoots. Even tho the titles to those churches are rightfully theirs. The greatest shame is the usurper wins and gets to keep the name and history. While masquerading as the real faithful
Right I see some people complaining they left when they should have stayed on if they "won" in earlier votes, but were called to have nothing with those who claim to be in Christ while living in sin. If they are lawless, what are you to do but divorce and pray for them?
@@slickbill9488 The Church, founded by Christ, existed more than 300 years before the Church gave us the Bible. The Church existed before the Bible and the Church decided what would be included/excluded from the Bible. Luther discarded the Church and encouraged the mindless, rudderless worship of scripture. Without the Church...the foundation of truth, to interpret it, scripture is without authority. Scripture becomes just words interpreted without authority to mean anything men want it to mean. Christ's body is one. Christ's Church is one. There are over 35,000 Protestant denominations which accept virtually any creed. The ONLY thing which unifies Prorestants is their rejection of the Church Christ founded. Protestants have replaced Christ with adulterated, truncated scripture and find themselves buiding the tower of bable. There is no salvation outside of Christ. He is THE way.
I’m a descendant of a Methodist circuit rider. My dad loved his church so much and fought very hard for her up until his death in 1987. He would be horrified to see what has happened this past week. 😞
My heart absolutely breaks for the legacy of John Wesley, George Whitefield, Francis Asbury, and more. For the generations of Circuit Riders who risked life and limb to proselytize our nation. For the move of God in the 18th century that is responsible for my faith even today. The United Methodist Church has officially decided to leave orthodoxy and has found fellowship among associate heretical traditions such as the Episcopal Church and the PCUSA. They've rejected God's plan for ministry, but even more appalling, for the sacrament of marriage. The Methodist's arose from the Church of England in the mid 1700's and found communion in a shared love for holiness and spiritual disciplines. This love for God spurred some of the greatest modern evangelistic work and is responsible for much of the Christian faith we see in our nation. May this be a chilling reminder that we're never too far from leaving the fold of the Good Shepherd. We must fix our attention on the face of God and become familiar with His Holy Spirit, so that we don't lose His heart or miss His movements.
The irony of the heterodox using terms like orthodox and heresy will never ceases to amuse me. I feel bad for y'all, though. The progressives will continue their long march through the institutions until only One, True. Holy and Apostolic faith remains, it seems.
Friendly reminder that those are your siblings in Christ in the Episcopal, PCUSA, and other liberal churches. It is your opinion that they are heretical but y'all are still Christian
Great video. Though I am not a Methodist, I grew up attending a Methodist church and have always been interested in what has been going on in the denomination. Thanks for catching us up on this!
@JS-L90 Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια /Pontius Pilate has entered the chat/ To a follower of Y'shua, He is Truth. What we know of him is recorded in the 4 Gospels and the NT Canon. Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, polygamy- He warned against these things. Those who dispute His words, saying "did God really say" are disciples of the serpent. Your moral relativity's end is nihilism.
I left a Methodist church 6 yrs ago when I saw this coming. But it is so much more than this. The denomination does not believe the Bible is infallible. The denomination doesn't see abortion as wrong. The final straw for me was when my Pastor told me the book of Ester in the Bible was made up. I grew up Baptist moved far away from my church and attended a Methodist church for 10 years. I now in an Evangelical free church. Thank Jesus
A comment proving evangelical worship is of a *book* and its interpretations by men. Of what consequence ? The beautify philosophy of Yeshua ben Yousef is ignored !! Global sectarian strife over "beLIEving". It is almost guarantied religious people will have their own "special" place, outside and far away from Heaven.
I'm a religious Jew and just want to weigh in for a minute on the Esther question, since you described it as the final straw. First, a piece of writing or speaking can be true without being literally true or historical. Do you believe that Jesus' parables literally happened? And yet I assume you think they express deep truths. The book of Esther speaks the truth about antisemitism and the condition of the Jewish people in exile. By the way, you know there are some radically different versions of the book, right? The Hebrew version and the Greek Septuagint version differ dramatically. Which one is true and "factual"? Assuming you're talking about the Hebrew version, it is a very strange biblical book in at least one major respect: God is not mentioned once. The book doesn't even claim to be related to God or to be inspired. Who wrote it? We have no idea. It is also difficult to align the specific events of the story with things known about Persian history. It sounds more like a kind of novel where we hear many juicy details about life in the Persian court (the Greek version has much more of this). Now, if your pastor simply said, "It's all made up," without giving any deeper explanation or interpretation of why it would be in the Bible, that is unfortunate. But I encourage you not to make truth or holiness or divine inspiration dependent on historical facts alone. I personally don't believe there was a literal Tower of Babel which explains-historically-the origins of all human languages on earth. But I consider the story to be an inspired teaching from God about many important religious ideas.
@@KillerofGods The Greek version brings the text much more in alignment with other biblical texts. For example, Mordechai has a prophetic dream right at the start foreshadowing the events to come. Esther offers long, detailed, pious prayers to God before she goes in to see the king. On the other hand, the Greek also has a more Hellenistic tone with highly emotional, even romanticized descriptions of the people and their feelings. Looking at the Greek highlights just how unusual the Hebrew version is theologically as a piece of Scripture, but also how the Hebrew feels more biblical in style.
by the grace of God I left the UMC when the split first began and joined the Holy Catholic Church. pray for me as i will enter the dominican order soon
@@rubiks6 Read Church history, please. Did you know that there were 30 popes before Constantine was born? And when was your church established? 1960s? 1700?
Because that Scripture is nowhere near that clear in the original Hebrew. It is something like "And with a male you shall lie down the lyings of a woman." And the term "lyings" is debated on exactly what it means. Also "shall lie down" is most often used in a non-sexual context. The whole thing is people reading a euphemism and assuming it means the same thing as in English. It doesn't use the word "know" like Hebrew usually does for sex. And similar things apply to other such Scriptures. Paul uses a completely new word that people assume means "homosexuality"--one that he seems to have made up, and not the usual word for the term. Bibles as early as the 1800s translated it as "pedophilia", well before the LGBT movement. I'm not saying the traditional interpretation is wrong. But it's not nearly as clear as people like to make it out to be today. Don't get me wrong: there are other scriptures that are hard to translate, but it's interesting how strong the beliefs are based on these scriptures.
@@turkeypedal you live in the reality that is, exactly, created by the God of the Bible. There is no context within the Bible, which makes homosexuality ambiguous.
@@turkeypedalpeople seem to forget the simplicity that in the beginning God created a woman for and to complete a man. They were man and wife, and creation was perfected and considered good. Things are so simple. Homosexuality didn’t exist until after evil entered into the earth and men started to die 😂
Romans 1:24-25 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Romans 1 shows the descent into evil. They start out knowing God but then decided not to glorify Him (Romans 1:21). Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. They continue down their dark path. Instead of following light to find more light, they follow darkness to find more darkness. By verse 28 God gives them over to a reprobate mind. That's where God washes His hands of you and stops trying to reach you. He stops sending the Holy Spirit to get you to believe in Jesus and be saved. You're pretty much doomed at that point. Every now and then one of these people finds Jesus but you have to wonder how many believers were praying for them? How many people loved them enough, even in the depth of their miserable sin, to witness the Gospel to them repeatedly? No matter how bad someone is, even the worst of the worst, we should be praying for them. After all, someone prayed for you when you were in the depths of your depravity.
Read Romans 2, though. "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. ..."
Praise God that the United Methodist Church has made it clear that they are not Christian. Clarity is many times more useful because you know exactly who you are fighting against.
@@jamestrotter3162 Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It would have been better to not be a yellowbelly. Why turn tail and run when the fighting gets tough? Scared of losing? We have Christ on our side! We will prevail! Win the fight from within. Its so typical to just run away, imagine if the diciples did this when they were persecuted or when they were shamed by the Pharasee. They could have just fled to somewhere else but no some of them still preached in Judea. The diciples were not cowards like those leaving the methodist church.
@@Athair48 But they did split up under persecution. The Church was mainly in Jerusalem. After being persecuted, the Church spread to Asia Minor and Greece. This was God's plan. It wasn't an accident.
I grew up in a small Free Methodist in PA. It closed years ago. I’m an Adult Sunday School teacher in the UMC. I use Wesley Pub House material. I’m sure it won’t be allowed now. Not sure what to do. Not many choices in my area. I’m heart sick.
Why? Because they are doing what Jesus asked of his followers. To love your neighbor as yourself? As a Christian you are to love the least of us; not condemn them.
@@RR64434 Just because you're called to love your neighbor doesn't mean you should allow them to live in their sin. As with any other sin they should repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and not live in sin chasing after the idolatry of their hearts.
@@TheGatrGamr What sin did “Jesus” say about gay people? He spoke more about greed, lies and the powers that be mistreating the poor and the meek. Are you going arpund telling rich people about the sin they live in?
@@RR64434 there is a number of verses in the Bible saying homosexuality is a sin. Since the whole Bible is the Word of God these means that Jesus teaches it. My guess is you would respond to that saying it means pedophilic relationships in terms of Paul’s letters. This is in fact false and unless you’re about to learn Greek we’d be at an impasse. So I hope you have a blessed day and that the Lord would open your eyes to this grave sin.
Thank you for this video Josh and all of your research! I grew up in the United Methodist Church, and my mom is still a UMC pastor. As someone who's no longer a Methodist (I joined a different denomination), but still connected to the church, it's been tough to see the division I saw as a kid continue to fester into what it how now. At the same time, being on the outside looking in, it's been hard to grasp the full picture. As always, you wonderfully summed up everything without lacking any necessary substance!
my church disaffiliated last year, we created a new church and joined the GMC. our new church is absolutely thriving, while those who stayed are withering on the vine. obedience brings blessings
@@20quid Hating sin is no vice, and loving it is no virtue. (Note that I said sin, not sinner; For if I hated sinners I would first and foremost be required to hate myself, which I do not, nor should I)
@20quid it isnt loving to lie to people to protect their feelings. I would argue that the more loving thing to do would be to speak the truth and help steer them back to Christ. also.. the things we warned about happening if we gave a green light to changing the book of discipline are happening. theyve opened pandoras box, allowing all kinds of sacrilegious things now. the people who stayed who were only worried about hurting the feelings of that one gay relative are having to reap what they sowed and I expect a lot of them to leave now. I told them that what they were doing is church suicide and what do ya know.. its a sad thing to watch
@@20quid I’m curious if you are referring to those who left as being hateful primarily on their stance on sexual issues or something that they did? I have multiple friends who are Methodist and have watched this with interest. I saw so many struggling with what they knew to be the Biblical stance versus what our overall society has convinced so many is correct. It was not an emotional decision because their emotions were torn. It was the exact opposite of heat. So I’m curious how you saw that so differently?
Josh- Your reporting on church matters is a gift to us all. I'm amazed at how you take complex topics and give such detailed analysis that is easily understood in a semi-short video. Thx brother! Keep it up!
The story of the present-day UMC is so much more complex than the issues surrounding homosexuality. The theology of the progressive Methodist Churches is embarrassing. Jesus is just one of many paths to God. The virgin birth is considered a myth. The Bible is no longer the authoritative word of God. It goes on and on. Behind this are the seminaries that train UMC pastors. There will be no place to appoint conservative ministers. There is a very complicated back story to this soap opera. To focus only on the issue of sexuality takes away from the real problems of the UMC.
Whenever theologians claim that Jesus is “one of many paths to God”, I wonder how they reconcile that with that passage in the New Testament where Jesus outright says that no one can go to the Father except through Him.
UMC delayed sending Africans invitations which made it difficult to obtain visas. Churches left as disaffiliation end date was Dec 2023. If a congregation did not leave by that date they couldn’t. All were fed up with the lack of enforcement of the book of discipline. Tired of the gamesmanship and dirty tricks by liberal Bishops.
@@joer5627 Why were any waiting around to leave? They should have left years ago. If the issue of homosexuality ever makes its way to a floor vote of a denomination, then that denomination as a Christian institution is over. If a denomination is uncertain about homosexuality, then it is time to leave it because it is not a difficult question. The homosexual lifestyle is clearly unbiblical and incompatible with a Christian life.
@@joer5627the part that makes me mad is due to bishops not enforcing disciplines, the traditionalist response was to give the entire church to the liberals.
Mostly correct. Back in 2019, they tried to pass these same liberal ideas. But, the conservative US-based churches, along with a big African contingent, not only defeated them, but they enacted their own policies that included churches being able to leave the UMC *and* retain church property (most of which was owned centrally by the UMC). Between then and now, most of the conservative churches left + the UMC pulled some shenanigans to make it more difficult for the African churches to participate = liberal now have a strong majority. They basically eliminated any remnants of the church, so it's just a social club at this point.
The IRD has done a number of articles on the UMC's bureaucracy openly rigging the voting process to get this outcome. They denied assistance to overseas conferences to get visas, resulting in the lowest percentage of foreign delegates ever. They screened lay delegates on a congregation by congregation basis to ensure that non-affirming lay delegates would not be sent. They declared this an extension of the 2020 conference instead of a new conference because US membership had shrunk by ~15% in that time period and would result in a lower percentage of delegates allotted to the US. And much, much, much more.
And they won, and now they get to take the Church property. If people had put a stop to their shenanigans it might have been different, but here we are. The people who focus on fighting to win beat the people who focus on losing nobly.
Curious how that works. I moved and started attending for years, and probably leaving,but the church was built many decades ago and was paid off long ago. The church was self owned. It joined the conference. I guess it's like marriage. It becomes jointly owned. Problem is, unlike divorce, one gets it all it seems.
@@frpgplayer There is a clause in the UMC's constitution that declares that all church and agency property is held in trust by the UMC. This clause has existed in every constitution of the UMC going back to 1784 and every church that is formed or joins the UMC must vote to adhere to the UMC constitution and Book of Discipline. Unlike the situation in the PCUSA and the Episcopal Church, where the trust clauses were added in the 1970s and 80s and without any affirmative vote by the congregations. The national bodies of those churches pretty much said, "We own your property now." This is why there has been so much litigation over churches leaving the PCUSA and TEC but any litigation over leaving the UMC is a lost cause.
GUESS it’s Ununited Methodist Church. Those that stand by the Bible as the Word of God and those that don’t stand by the Bible as the Word of God. The sheep/goat debate. The wheat/tare, saints/imitators.
Please don't blame all of them. Keep in mind that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can't afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those same congregations that paid for their churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds for who knows what evil purpose.
@@cathys465 Like I said above I never hear the saving grace and the rest of the Gospel of Christ in a church I went to over decades. Thankfully someone else told me about Jesus
Thanks for this clear and sad report. I knew many people in the 1980s who left the UMC as individuals because of issues like this where the local church has to accept doctrines of the national church which move away from long-held Biblical values. It is a slippery slope which will continue.
Was brought up in the Methodists Church! My stepfather and i left 5 years ago when our pastor informed us that the church was being hijacked by liberal thinkers.The bible clearly points out sins and to ignore homosexuality isnt going to get you into heaven. I go to a Baptist Church now that teaches the Bible.
@@onedaya_martian1238 You seem to be very much a sheep yourself. Why? If they were following a myth, they'd go where it is actually taught. Are you actually this ignorant?
"I knew it was in trouble when we had a female pastor" you could have just stopped there. Once a church strays from scripture, it has sort of invented its own religion, anyway.
@@67L48 If you weren't raised Weslyan, it's actually pretty common in the broader tradition to support female ministry. Even many of the more conservative Weslyan churches ordain women. That and the concomitant alcohol prohibitionist tendency were very characteristic in the past.
Reminds me of when the US churches split over slavery in the 19th century, with the liberals creating their own churches based on progressive interpretations of the Bible and conservatives creating their own churches based on traditional interpretations.
Had a progressive UMC church down the street two years ago. That congregation slowly died out as they tried to embrace every inclusive initiative they could. Building was bought by a traditional Global Methodist Church. Building is bursting at the seams on Sunday mornings with young families.
Thank you for producing this faithful narration of events. As a 20+ year UMC pastor, it's difficult to find resources for my congregation that are both sufficient and succinct. I'll be happy to share this video with them. Well done.
@@Griffologee ummm the word of God is the authority. Not me. The denomination is now gonna die a natural death anyway. It’s so sad because I used to be a part of it. When you throw away God and the authority of his word then people who truly love God are not gonna show up anyway, and just as every liberal denomination is dying completely, the Methodist will just follow suit. If you don’t teach the word of God, why should any true Christian bother showing up at church. Also the people who don’t really believe God anymore will probably spend the time in the bars than coming into a so-called church. Am sorry, thank God for your ministry of if you know what is best you will find a Bible believing denomination like the global Methodist or something else.
@@Griffologee I just said I am no authority. The Word of God is. If His word means nothing to you then I don’t know what you’re doing in ministry. You should go find another job doing something else. It’s as simple as that.
As always, I commend you for being more informative than almost any other source on contemporary church issues while remaining objective. It is very very much appreciated!
If you think that I’m going to hell for daring to fall in love and dream of having a family, and I have to sit in your pew and be told what a wicked sinner I am for wanting love and peace… then I will gladly take brimstone.
Anyone surprised about this should review the parable of the wheat and tares. I'm honestly fine with this. It's becoming easier to know who is aligned with Jesus now.
What I find immoral is preventing churches leaving, taking property, and then talking Jesus love. A car thief has more honor in admiting they stole it.
And it says a lot about the people who have taken over that they ignored the rules and bylaws of the denomination for years in support of the LGBTQ agenda, but, now, all those same leaders are sticklers for the rules when it comes to congregations leaving the denomination.
It's one of the major issues with organized religion. I'm religious but have a big issues with Conferences. Taking everything from a church that wants to split off is soo Immortal. Ok, the group that splits off can't use the denomination's name, that is ok. And maybe the Conference keeps the property/church/land. But any money the local group has collected is the group's. They worked for it, so they keep it. There are other major issues I have with Conferences, but this one is near the top.
My mother lamented that her UMC in LA has been trying to leave for years and even have lawyers. If this is happening elsewhere, more exits are probably being delayed for whatever reason.
Y'know - It's really simple. You either accept the Word of God or you reject the Word of God. It's the same choice Adam had. This is nothing less than the apostasy of the last days. Yet, it would seem God has hardened their hearts, as he is known to do with those who wish to reject the Holy Spirit (the Author of the Word of God). In God's Word, we learn that God rained fire down on Sodom. To this day, He has not restored that city. Do you think maybe God was trying to make a point?
If they have fundamental differences in their beliefs, isn't it preferable that they split? A religious organisation is supposed to be a group of people with the same religious beliefs.
@@thomasdalton1508the lack of debate seems to be the larger issue - ignoring other people’s feelings on the matter will always lead to tension and eventually separation. as an LGBT person myself i fear things like this cause people to falsely believe that LGBT people and christianity are somehow incompatible, leading to a further entrenchment of homophobia and prejudice. the UMC needs to take a step back and evaluate how they handled this.
@@polikuszka I wouldn't describe it as a lack of debate. It is just that the debate has already happened. Everyone already knows everyone else's views on the subject. It was time to just make a decision.
I have a feeling that, as always happens, history will look favorably on the group trying to uphold the rights of a historically-oppressed minority group
It becomes about rights when religious folk use their beliefs to write bigoted laws that prevent, say, gay people getting married. If you want to keep your bigotry in the church- go for it, but understand that these kinds of beliefs push people away from religion. I live in a heavily catholic state and do you know what church is the most popular? The LGBT-accepting Methodist church
I have a feeling a lot of "traditionalist" dissidents have been jumping ship for other streams of Evangelicalism entirely rather than trying to stay to save Methodism. A few UMC megachurches decided to disaffiliate and just carry on as generic non-denom megachurches rather than join the GMC. For those who are determined to have their infants baptized there is the Church of the Nazarene. I supsect many others have just gone to Assemblies of God, ARC churches, etc. I'll bet the GMC changes its name to drop the Methodist label within the next 15 years as well. It just doesn't carry the weight it used to.
God didn't make denominations. That was never His intention. It is time for Christendom to stop following denominations that came as a result of a movement.
I doubt that will happen. If anything GMC churches and schools are doubling down on Wesleyan classes and bands, digging deep into their DNA for the Methodist practices that had been lately abandoned.
I am a theologically conservative but politically very moderate Methodist. I was somewhat in favor of disaffiliation. But the GMC holds no appeal for me. Here in Alabama, it is typically a breeding ground of Trumpist white nationalism and that is just as bad as ultra-progressivism. However, going independent would have left our church bankrupt. It was a no-win scenario. I will faithfully teach the gospel in my Sunday School class made up of people my parents' age, nearly all over 70. Some almost 90. In short order, when either the church folds or my class have all died, my wife and I will probably move on to another church. Where, I don't know. Our community is 90% full of Baptist churches where Christian = MAGA and this is diligently enforced. We are too old to tolerate driving for hours each week to support a moderate Anglican Church 30 miles away. We'll see what happens.
Thank you for your video. I really appreciate it. I was actually waiting for this video to better understand the story behind all these things happening in the Methodist Church. I have a Methodist Minister, but in a much more Conservative and more rural area. He told me that things are much more traditional, but he told me his church would probably collapse if things changed to more liberal ideas.
I admire the objective presentation in this video. I sympathize with the Methodists and ex-Methodists who still believe in the gospel. And I am profoundly grateful for the authority Jesus Christ himself vested in his teaching Church, still present in the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Come and see.
The amount of information provided by this guy in his various videos is impressive. Journalism that actually reports the facts, instead of just giving opinions. A refreshing change
You might notice that in all the proclamations mentioned by Josh, absolutely none of them mentioned that they came about their conclusions from the Bible. Doesn't the Bible matter to these people?
I am now a former Methodist and we had a Conference employee call the Bible a stupid book during a sermon this year. Tells you where the UMC leadership stands. Sad to see them embrace the world.
Our former UMC congregation was among the first to leave in our state and quickly joined the GMC. We had been dealing with progressives for long enough to realize that they were going to turn the UMC into a denomination driven by pop culture theology. We have more than doubled in size since that decision, with people transferring from UMC churches that didn't disaffiliate. We have worked to reaffirm what is Biblical and Wesleyan. We lost only one adult member (and his three children) because of lour decision to leave. Our challenge has been assimilating, and finding a role in our ministries for everyone in our reconstructed congregation. We have already added two outreach ministries, as well as several new classes and groups. I expect that the decisions at this General Conference will shock many UMC members, and shake loose a few people that were previously loyal to the UMC name.
It requires hubris to think you know better than 2,000 years of theology and go against what is not once affirmed in the Bible, but rather on the contrary numerous times. This is why I’m increasingly interested in the Catholic Church - strong Christian authority and theological tradition
Are you kidding? Purgatory? Mary and idol worship? Salvation from a piece of bread? Unbiblical, unbiblical, unbiblical. Stick with the Bible. There's your solid tradition and foundation. There's a reason it's called "the Word of *God."*
Orthodoxy welcomes you too! Neither Catholics nor Orthodox worship idols. There is nothing wrong with requesting the mother of Jesus to pray for us or to ask saints to pray for us, as it’s typical to ask other godly people to pray for us. Neither the orthodox or Catholics receive salvation from a piece of bread, rather it’s the body of Christ and that does not grant salvation alone.
@@rubiks6Mary is the most holy mother of our Lord and deserves every veneration and honor, nobody worships her. The eucharist passage is literal and truly BIBLICAL, is an important part of salvation in every church with apostolic roots. Icons and statues arent idols. "Stick with the Bible" yeah we see what happens to the 1000s of denomination supposedly sticking to the Bible. Stick with the Church that gave you the Bible instead. Only 2 options, Orthodoxy or Catholicism and they are much closer theologically than any 2 Protestant churches. Stop these already and easily refuted Protestant arguments.
Your explanation of what is going on in the United Methodist Church and its most recent General Conference is more precise and thorough than that of any outside observer I have seen, and almost any inside source, as well. I admire and applaud your discipline in reporting the facts in a clear and concise manner. Unfortunately, in its quest for worldly approval and relevance, the UMC is giving up Biblical standards and truth. It is now contending for secular social and political goals rather than for the faith and the faithful.
I would recommend that they stay. This is a spiritual battle and giving up territory is how the enemy wins. I may not be a Methodist but Christians running away is an issue with society in general if you ask me.
@@tehZevo_ True. Though I also believe we should do the work we are went to do on this earth even if we don't see the fruit of it. We must be diligent.
Not quite. There are multiple Methodist denominations, such as the Free Methodist Church and Methodist Protestant Church, that uphold the teaching of Scripture.
This is a sad, sad thing - to watch a Christian denomination reject the Word of God and crumble to pieces. Truly the sheep are being separated from the goats.
The Southern Baptists, an anti-LGBT denomination, is currently crumbling to pieces based on their own published membership data. I guess they must have rejected the word of God when they decides to hate others for the crime of feeling love.
My church disaffiliated last year. Sadly some small churches in the area could not afford to The UMC may have won this battle but they will not last. Many members will walk away and then there are those that dont want to be identified as the United Methodis Church of Perversion
I feel that in the next few years the UMC will find itself with a large amount of empty buildings and even smaller congregations. I don't see how they are going to survive embracing sin.
It’s a good thing we don’t hold past leaders to be infallible and future-proof. Tradition is a valued component of the Wesleyan quadrilateral but it does not stand on its own.
Father John is presumably still being purgated of his anti-papistry. Father Charles may have received a suspended sentence to write some new material for the Heavenly choir.
Yep, so many people do not even try to abstain from sins such as gluttony, homosexuality, adultery, lying, theft, coveting, dishonoring elders, idol worship, usury, and more that are all in the Holy Scriptures. It is one thing to try to abstain from sin. It is another thing to make a sin your identity.
Yes. Many of these people reject even the most fundamental beliefs of Christianity (the resurrection, etc., even the very existence of Christ). Scripture as suggestion is frankly the central point of liberal theology. Their catechism is developed at the Democratic National Convention.
Thanks for the considered breakdown of the situation. The Methodists have come a long way from John Wesley rising up at four in the morning to pray for several hours and then spending the rest of the day peaching to most often hostile crowds. Yet his devotion to God basically saved England. This situation does not escape the notice of a Holy Creator.
I grew up United Methodist and loved my upbringing in the church, but I did leave due to this issue. The writing was on the wall and I couldn’t stay any longer. I left for Orthodoxy and have not looked back since☦️
Christ is risen from the grave Trampling down death by death And on those in the tombs bestowing life! ☦️ Blessed Pascha to all my brothers and sisters!
After 50 years in leadership roles, I was told "Fact do not matter." and "Your concerns are not important to this church." My concerns did not have anything to do with this issue, but to the failure of the pastor to tell the truth, the failure of the trustees to follow the law, and a total lack of consideration of my views by all church members. I left the church, and it was the best thing I ever did. This recent decision shows I was right. You should belong to a church that shares your values.
In most Annual Conferences it was very expensive for a congregation to leave the UMC. In some it was near impossible. A congregation also needed a super-majority of members voting to leave, and the vote had to be approved by the Annual Conference, which blocked some congregations from leaving. Roughly 25% of congregations disaffiliated, but I think another 25% will just disappear.
@@frzstat That's my prediction as well. The video is clear: Their average membership number is very small at this time. They'll simply to let those little conservative Churches to close down and sell the property. Most will close in the next few months as their members vote with their feet.
I think a bunch simply could not afford to leave. or were taking a wait and see approach. I don't think they expected to get stuck. Many that left did so only becasue they did not want to risk it.
The practice of homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian teaching. The Wesleys would be appalled with what just happened if they were alive today. No doubt they would have left the denomination. God can't truly bless any group condoning sin. So sad!
I converted to the catholic church from methodism last year. I left the church after they had the kids singing “born this way” by lady gaga right after they sang “jesus loves the little children” what’s crazy is ive met a bunch of recent converts. 1 episcopal, 2 other methodists, and one non denom. The church is booming! People love traditional churches and none are more traditonal than ours.
I saw a Methodist service where a couple of women sang the Disney song “Brave” on the “altar” or whatever they call the stage in front of the congregation. Very strange
@@dylaneckstein2366 I like the orthodox, beards and glasses rock. They seem to hate me with an absolute passion and they come off as arrogant. Then when you have a good point they go all troll tactics. Probably just havent had the best experiences with them.
@@RonJohn63 and my understanding is that people from ours and neighboring town have voted with their feet. So that the neighboring congregation voted to stay with the denomination, and the people that disagreed with the decisions of the 2 churches have switched churches.
As a Catholic, we frequently pray at Holy Mass for our separated brothers and sisters. May God grant you all the peace of Christ during this time of strife in your church. Amen.
@@francismarion6400 The only marriages we have are between a man and woman who promise not to use contraception, open to life, freely consenting, and be exlusive with their bodies. Are you interested in learning more about Catholic teaching regarding Holy Matrimony and physical ethics? The Catechism of the Catholic Church has all teachings summarized between lines 1601 and 1666. I pray you find it spiritually edifying.
Church splits come and go. Christians have always disagreed with each other. Divorces help us to get out of unhealthy relationships and move on. We are made of clay. Let us wish each other well and press on.
Isn't that how Luther split the church ? Funny how a universal/catholic church morphed centuries after Jesus. Did God whisper in Martin's ear to fix the dogma ?
@onedaya_martian1238 No, Luther argued the Roman Catholic Church was going against God's will. Please don't straw man or just attack protestants, we aren't laughing about what is happening in the Catholic Church and you should be taking notes about what is happening in the methodist because it's coming to you very soon.
@@onedaya_martian1238 In a manner of speaking, yes, God spoke to Luther-through the scriptures. Luther read the scriptures, and when he realized that the church of Rome had fallen into apostasy, he called her back to the scriptures, which she refused, having fully embraced through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, and after the rudiments of the world, the doctrines of men and of devils, even as had done the children of Israel in going after false gods before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Luther's problem is that he didn't come out from her fully, never seeing his own use of that same philosophical system through which Rome had become a corrupted corruptor, which sadly was and still is true for many of the Protestant Catholic reformers and their spiritual descendants today.
Josh, you have no idea how much of a blessing you are. Thanks for your videos.
I appreciate that! Thanks for taking the time to watch.
@@ReadyToHarvest couldn't agree more.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2Ti 4:3 NIV)
Amen. UMC is forgetting what the Bible teaches against accommodate people. That's dangerous.
@@garyhiggs9764 Amen as well. Forsake sin and follow Jesus
And we are in that time.
We are experiencing the great Falling Away. When Jesus returns (Luke 18:8), will He find faith in the earth?
That means we are in the Beginning of Sorrows phase (Matthew 24:7-8) that must take place before the Rapture. As the world descends into greater and greater sin, lift up your head because your redemption draws high (Luke 21:28). Jesus is coming back and soon. And His reward is with Him (Revelation 22:12-13).
@@protorhinocerator142 Paul said I the last days many will depart from the faith
@@garyhiggs9764 The key is to not be one of them. Hold on a little longer to your faith. Jesus is returning soon.
I was sitting in a Methodist Church back in 2018, and was stunned when the Pastor was defending gay marriage. It amazes me how some churches just blow off God's word.
It's a business and their traditionalist brand isn't selling well any longer.
@@JMcKey21 Or maybe the church had been attempting to carry off a 'mix' which at best is spiritual schizophrenia. It doesn't work because God doesn't change.
@@JMcKey21a business? What money are they generating?
@@timotundyRoughly 134 million dollars pre-pandemic. Dropped quite a bit during the pandemic.
Yea are you shaving your face and getting tattoos? What is the difference??
Dude, this is the kind and quality of journalism I wish I could see in all other domains of life in other channels and media networks. You are doing excellent reporting, sir! Keep up the good work!
Yeah!... :)
Indeed
When you abandon Christ, don’t expect to flourish.
Jesus is the Head of the Church.
If Jesus isn't the head anymore, your "church" is not part of His Church.
So... every church in the US has abandoned Jesus? Cause they're all in a nosedive. Remember all the disaffiliated churches that were mentioned that have also closed?
Mainline Protestant churches (including the UMC) aren’t losing members because they are abandoning Christ. They’re losing members because they’re no longer relevant to most people in the generations under age 60. How many people want to get involved in an organization that’s constantly arguing over one issue after another? The less organized a religion is, the better.
@@rainbowkrampus The Eastern Orthodox Church is growing in the US.
@@rainbowkrampus read your Bible. it will help you understand what is going on. you obviously don't
Methodists: Even though we are so inclusive and liberal we're still shrinking and aging!
Episcopalians: First time?
They try to accept sin instead of sinners. Love the people but hate the sin. They have nothing to offer but hell
@@garythorington1600Exactly the same as the sins you commit each day. Or have you stopped sinning?
@@mosessupposes2571 no.
@@mosessupposes2571 Christ asks you the same thing.
@mosessupposes2571
If your sin doesn't greive you, are you sure you have the spirit?
Keep on pleasing people Methodists, and you'll find out that Jesus will say to you: I don't know you.
They have made a fool of themselves, denying the truth of the Bible to pursue confirmation of people.
Yes, because Jesus constantly talked about hating gay people, no wait .....
@@BlutoSan Shouldn't you be doing your pre-algebra homework?
@@terrymeadows1827 I am 66, took pre-algebra in High School. Are you resorting to ad hominem because I am right and you have no argument?
@@BlutoSan I just found your response to be juvenile.
@@terrymeadows1827 How so? Aren't christians supposed to follow Jesus's words and actions. Instead they delve in to Leviticus to judge their neighbors, something their god told them explicitly not to do.
Always love how calm and objective these videos are, especially on topics that are typically filled with people arguing from places of pure emotion and/or prejudice
Sure! This video author is an absolute delight on the way he performs it and the other videos in his channel! And on the way he describes a so complex subject in a so small time framed video, coupled with a so visually appealing style! Congrats, because it is so rare to find someone who rightly does so! That said; I believe he is surely an Academic on this field and he knows very well what he's talking about!...
Jesus Encounter Ministries UA-cam channel
I argued from the Bible, and was told by a District Superintendent to only consider the words of Jesus.
Sorry no, what a idiot.
This was about money, the gays want the money and the land. They backed off and paused once they found out that most churches were deep in debt.
Wow, Josh, your research is astounding. I'm a United Methodist and have been following this issue for some time and have been trying to keep up with the GC. Still, Iearned from your video.
Thank you Franklin!
Get out while you can!
Friend, I think it’s time to be a Methodist and not United Methodist. That “United” part has given up the ghost a long time ago. ✝️🙏🏻
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the the Specific portion/rebels of the United Methodist that have accepted/condoned the Act of homosexuality, will be condoning anything that enters their doors.
Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
@@JohnPaul-ol5zl Your smearing and broad brushing a whole group of particular Christian, Methodists, based on the sins of some of them. How are your tactics any different as the those who cancel anyone who thinks different from them?
I went to a UMC college in the 1980s. I took religion classes taught by ordained UMC ministers. All those classes were just assembly lines to make atheists. Those men did everything they could to get people NOT to believe in God. They were successful in most instances. If I had not been a Christian for about 10 years and grounded in my faith, they might have been able to do me some harm. Instead, we had some heavy arguments. I was the only one in the class to disagree with them. I was not their favorite student.
Bless you for standing up for your faith.
Oh, if they couldn't convince the kids to become atheists, the fall back often was for them to formally become Muslims. Check out American University.
But your heavenly father was very proud of you.
Sounds like the old joke - "Seminaries are where the good men go to lose their faith"
@@JasonTaylor-po5xc I heard it phrased as "Seminary = Cemetery."
As a former UMC member I urge Methodists to join a Bible study group that is biblically sound. My former UMC church quit doing Bible studies many, many years ago and only did topical studies. My eyes were opened by the word of God. Thank you for this update, I am praying for the church to repent and return to God’s truth.
Jesus Encounter Ministries UA-cam channel
If the church goes against God's Word like this, they will usher His judgment on themselves! Look what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah!
Galatians 3:28 "There is no male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
@ChristianCatboy You are excluding part of the verse and taking its meaning out of context. The full verse is this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus,
Verse 29 continues, "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."
This statement is merely a statement about our equal value in the eyes of God. All followers of Christ, whether they are Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, have equal value in God's eyes.
@@MW-ty6zk Convenient of you to interpret it that way. Is slavery an appropriate social division to maintain between believers? The gender binary is the same kind of division.
My uncle was a great pastor in a UMC here in Brooke's Point, Palawan, Philippines. He left the church a few years ago because of this issue.
Did their church leave for a more conservative methodist church or convert?
@@parrotconservative some of the members and my uncle now has a new church which he himself started right after he left UMC.
That's a shame. Hopefully he chills out and stops hating on people for doing nothing except loving the people that they love.
What a blessing....he chose God and righteousness over political correctness ❤
@@20quid God was very clear. Anything else is the work of the devil. I hope you enjoy it bud!
over the split i noticed every UM church in my town is no longer UM. proud of em
It’s a sad day when people blatantly throw out God’s word. I can’t imagine how strong the mental gymnastics must be to justify affirming what God is explicitly against.
"can't imagine how strong the mental gymnastics.."
Sorry but this is Religion projecting
It's Christians that do the mental gymnastics when confronted with reality, and though many here don't realize it, they are doing it so when more and more people are no longer buying the fantasy sold by Religions.
As a former Catholic/Christian long time Athiest, many here simply haven't started their journey out of their Religion and removed the shackles of indoctrination put on them since childhood.... But it will be worthwhile to begin that journey now.
It’s self-delusion from human pride. Can’t get past themselves. God is God and we are not.
@@AdmiralBisonI couldn’t disagree with you more. I am certain that God is real, that He came to Earth as Jesus, died as the punishment for my sin, and has reconciled me to Himself. I am not in any bondage whatsoever. I’ve never been more free. Jesus set me free from the bondage of sin.
@@AdmiralBison removal of one shackle to put on another. Progress.
If everything is seen as right, then nothing is wrong. Give it time and the Methodist will be condoning anything that enters their doors.
Accepting of a repenting sinner is Love, condoning and promoting of the cardnal sin they carry on their shoulders is throwing a drowning man a chain tied to an anchor. You are not helping them a bit, but instead hurting them on another level. Oh, and the anchor has a 2nd chain attack with the other end attack to the bishop that threw the anchor to the drowning man.
A very very sad day.. I grew up in the UMChurch, married, children baptized and married there. This is the end of the United Methodist Church and the beginning of the end.
So you are sad that people aren’t homophobic?
"Rainbow" churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the Gospel. I left the Episcopal Church when they abandoned the Gospel.
Sad to hear, sign of our times
Keep telling yourself that, I guess. Doesn't change the fact that many people who leave church cite mistreatment of LGBTQ+ people as a reason
It’s interesting Jesus never said a word about this disagreement.
@johncasciani3296. Jesus never mentioned that beastiality was wrong. I guess since He never mentioned it, it must be ok
Anti slavery churches will fade and disappear since they have abandoned the clear teachings of the bible
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
The Christian church as a whole continues to rapidly deteriorate. We’re in the end days. Read your Bible. Pray. Ye must be born again. God bless.
We have been in the end days since Jesus left this earth.
Ahh, another crackpot beLIEving "the book" is to be worshipped ... and not the teaching of the person whose name is used to define the type of religion discussed here (ignoring the various sects' names being reproached).
There are the same types of people holding up progress in society in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc who think "If we all follow THIS BOOK OF OURS, the world would be a better place". That idea doesn't work there, any more than it does here.
Please don't vote.
Do you think it is "deteriorating" or as I KNEW what had to happen since I was a young boy...."destroyed"..."crushed'..."persecuted"...."REFINED in The FIRE"
@@run4cmt Then we should act like it and if you love Jesus obey him. Act like he can come today
2nd Timothy is a forgery.
Those who claim to know Christ but deny the Spirit. Take heed. We will all be held accountable for our choices and most importantly those choices that impacted others causing them to stray further from the truth.
Catholicism and orthodoxy is looking pretty good right now. I’m not a fan of a lot of divisions. In fact I wish there was one church.
Thirty year Catholic convert here. We have our issues but the Church is still standing after 2000 years
Good news! There is only one church. The bride of Christ. Made up of those who believe in the shed blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Our names are recorded in the Book of Life in Heaven. No denominations there!
God also is not a fan of divisions. He intended us to be one in body and spirit. One faith, one baptism, one Church!
There IS only one remnant true church....this is just away for satan to get rid of churches...true Christians have God in their hearts.....they believe the eord.😢
There would still be one church if it wasn’t for Roman Catholicism..I swear every smug comment from Catholics is about this boastful ego insulting other denominations ,,more insulting them considering Orthodoxy as it’s “little brother” 🙄
In the schism split of 1054 the west engaged in heritcal acts making the Papal authority and adding things to the nicene creed like the Filioque clause. Hence the church split BECAUSE OF ROMAN CATHOLICS.
Then in 1517 because of clergy abuse and the Catholic Church behaving like the Mafia there was another split because of the abuse of power Martin Luther skewed the book to took out parts where people couldn’t eventually abuse power he had to do that BECAUSE IF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
do you see the trend? You can’t just boo hoo and complain about “one church” when the reason for 3 denominations it’s because of y’all to begin with!
Then you always talk about “the orthodox should come back” attempting to verbally leave out Protestants because you feel like they are unworthy of the kingdom of heaven when Protestants and Orthodox at least have this one thing in common it’s because of the Catholic abuse they they exist in the first place.
As an African American Episcopal Methodist (AMEC) and I’m saddened by this…But for those who are traditionalists, GOD BLESS YOU! God is the same Yesterday, today and forever…..stand on the Word of God.
Aren’t the traditionalists your referring to now globalists? It’s so confusing.
@@Christine-hl4rl There are still some of us left in the UMC.
@@Christine-hl4rl Just now it’s in the name of Reconquista we go on.
@@awildtannerwasfound5045 😊
Why did you feel the need to state your race?
I totally understand why conservative churches left. The liberal bishops and clergy would ignore the Book of Discipline, therefore conservative victories with keeping the rules unchanged and in sync with traditional Christianity was meaningless!
Conservatives know the theological liberals will not cease until they aren't bent over. All over the mainline the conservatives seem to have grown tired of the fight and would rather just start off shoots. Even tho the titles to those churches are rightfully theirs. The greatest shame is the usurper wins and gets to keep the name and history. While masquerading as the real faithful
But they shouldn't separate. That only makes the liberals empowered. It's why society has soured. Christians keeps retreating and giving up territory.
Yeah, from a procedural standpoint, there's plenty of "do as I say... " for both sides, sorry to have to say it.
@@MarcillaSmith Apparently they need to preach on Romans 1 and sin in general!!
Right I see some people complaining they left when they should have stayed on if they "won" in earlier votes, but were called to have nothing with those who claim to be in Christ while living in sin.
If they are lawless, what are you to do but divorce and pray for them?
The UMC is no longer using the scriptures; rejecting God's Word will be their downfall.
Correct. It's no longer a church. It's just a social club. Might as well be the local Elks club.
@@67L48 Does anyone even remember when lodge membership was divisive?
Scripture came out of the Church. Once Luther separated scripture from the Church which gave it to us, it became lifeless and uninspired.
@@MrGus.1 uh no Scripture came to the Church not out of the Church.
@@slickbill9488 The Church, founded by Christ, existed more than 300 years before the Church gave us the Bible. The Church existed before the Bible and the Church decided what would be included/excluded from the Bible. Luther discarded the Church and encouraged the mindless, rudderless worship of scripture. Without the Church...the foundation of truth, to interpret it, scripture is without authority. Scripture becomes just words interpreted without authority to mean anything men want it to mean. Christ's body is one. Christ's Church is one. There are over 35,000 Protestant denominations which accept virtually any creed. The ONLY thing which unifies Prorestants is their rejection of the Church Christ founded. Protestants have replaced Christ with adulterated, truncated scripture and find themselves buiding the tower of bable. There is no salvation outside of Christ. He is THE way.
I’m a descendant of a Methodist circuit rider. My dad loved his church so much and fought very hard for her up until his death in 1987. He would be horrified to see what has happened this past week. 😞
My family also we're circuit riders going back to the days of Francis Asbury
The modern UMC is not the church of your father.
@@JasonTaylor-po5xc amen to that!!
All churches have a LGBTQ problem these days.
John Wesley himself would be rolling in his grave
My heart absolutely breaks for the legacy of John Wesley, George Whitefield, Francis Asbury, and more. For the generations of Circuit Riders who risked life and limb to proselytize our nation. For the move of God in the 18th century that is responsible for my faith even today.
The United Methodist Church has officially decided to leave orthodoxy and has found fellowship among associate heretical traditions such as the Episcopal Church and the PCUSA. They've rejected God's plan for ministry, but even more appalling, for the sacrament of marriage.
The Methodist's arose from the Church of England in the mid 1700's and found communion in a shared love for holiness and spiritual disciplines. This love for God spurred some of the greatest modern evangelistic work and is responsible for much of the Christian faith we see in our nation.
May this be a chilling reminder that we're never too far from leaving the fold of the Good Shepherd. We must fix our attention on the face of God and become familiar with His Holy Spirit, so that we don't lose His heart or miss His movements.
The irony of the heterodox using terms like orthodox and heresy will never ceases to amuse me.
I feel bad for y'all, though. The progressives will continue their long march through the institutions until only One, True. Holy and Apostolic faith remains, it seems.
Friendly reminder that those are your siblings in Christ in the Episcopal, PCUSA, and other liberal churches. It is your opinion that they are heretical but y'all are still Christian
Amen 🙏🏽
Great video. Though I am not a Methodist, I grew up attending a Methodist church and have always been interested in what has been going on in the denomination. Thanks for catching us up on this!
Good coverage sir! Thanks as always for giving unbiased, factual coverage of the religious organizations here in our country.
God will not be mocked. His Word is crystal clear.
Gen 15:16b
“for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
The falling away will be complete, then Judgement will come.
And just so happens to support everything you say 100%. Smh.
Says a bunch of different people about any given topic
@JS-L90
Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια
/Pontius Pilate has entered the chat/
To a follower of Y'shua, He is Truth. What we know of him is recorded in the 4 Gospels and the NT Canon.
Homosexuality, adultery, fornication, polygamy- He warned against these things.
Those who dispute His words, saying "did God really say" are disciples of the serpent.
Your moral relativity's end is nihilism.
Jesus Encounter Ministries UA-cam channel
This is what happens when sin enters the camp.
I moved here 13 years ago. When I came, the local UMC church's parking lot was typically full on Sunday morning. Now it's half-full.
I left a Methodist church 6 yrs ago when I saw this coming. But it is so much more than this. The denomination does not believe the Bible is infallible. The denomination doesn't see abortion as wrong. The final straw for me was when my Pastor told me the book of Ester in the Bible was made up. I grew up Baptist moved far away from my church and attended a Methodist church for 10 years. I now in an Evangelical free church. Thank Jesus
A comment proving evangelical worship is of a *book* and its interpretations by men.
Of what consequence ?
The beautify philosophy of Yeshua ben Yousef is ignored !! Global sectarian strife over "beLIEving".
It is almost guarantied religious people will have their own "special" place, outside and far away from Heaven.
I'm a religious Jew and just want to weigh in for a minute on the Esther question, since you described it as the final straw. First, a piece of writing or speaking can be true without being literally true or historical. Do you believe that Jesus' parables literally happened? And yet I assume you think they express deep truths. The book of Esther speaks the truth about antisemitism and the condition of the Jewish people in exile. By the way, you know there are some radically different versions of the book, right? The Hebrew version and the Greek Septuagint version differ dramatically. Which one is true and "factual"?
Assuming you're talking about the Hebrew version, it is a very strange biblical book in at least one major respect: God is not mentioned once. The book doesn't even claim to be related to God or to be inspired. Who wrote it? We have no idea. It is also difficult to align the specific events of the story with things known about Persian history. It sounds more like a kind of novel where we hear many juicy details about life in the Persian court (the Greek version has much more of this).
Now, if your pastor simply said, "It's all made up," without giving any deeper explanation or interpretation of why it would be in the Bible, that is unfortunate. But I encourage you not to make truth or holiness or divine inspiration dependent on historical facts alone. I personally don't believe there was a literal Tower of Babel which explains-historically-the origins of all human languages on earth. But I consider the story to be an inspired teaching from God about many important religious ideas.
@@KingoftheJuice18How does the Greek and Hebrew versions differ radically? The Greek just has extra passages iirc.
@@KingoftheJuice18But yeah I pretty much agree with everything you said.
@@KillerofGods The Greek version brings the text much more in alignment with other biblical texts. For example, Mordechai has a prophetic dream right at the start foreshadowing the events to come. Esther offers long, detailed, pious prayers to God before she goes in to see the king. On the other hand, the Greek also has a more Hellenistic tone with highly emotional, even romanticized descriptions of the people and their feelings. Looking at the Greek highlights just how unusual the Hebrew version is theologically as a piece of Scripture, but also how the Hebrew feels more biblical in style.
The 3% in Alaska was only one church.
There's a UMC congregation here in Dutch Harbor - although I know very few people who attend.
That's funny. I love all of Alaska's ubsurd "per capita" statistics.
by the grace of God I left the UMC when the split first began and joined the Holy Catholic Church. pray for me as i will enter the dominican order soon
Welcome home. You are at the Church that Jesus established himself 2000 years ago.
You've gone from bad to the worst.
@@maxellton - You mean the church that Constantine established. Why do you think it's called "Roman"?
@@rubiks6 Read Church history, please. Did you know that there were 30 popes before Constantine was born?
And when was your church established? 1960s? 1700?
Join a church where they preach the Bible.
I have yet to meet a Catholic priest who understands the Bible.
"A Man shall not sleep with a man as with a woman" What is so difficult to understand about that?
Karl Marx
Because that Scripture is nowhere near that clear in the original Hebrew. It is something like "And with a male you shall lie down the lyings of a woman." And the term "lyings" is debated on exactly what it means. Also "shall lie down" is most often used in a non-sexual context.
The whole thing is people reading a euphemism and assuming it means the same thing as in English. It doesn't use the word "know" like Hebrew usually does for sex.
And similar things apply to other such Scriptures. Paul uses a completely new word that people assume means "homosexuality"--one that he seems to have made up, and not the usual word for the term. Bibles as early as the 1800s translated it as "pedophilia", well before the LGBT movement.
I'm not saying the traditional interpretation is wrong. But it's not nearly as clear as people like to make it out to be today. Don't get me wrong: there are other scriptures that are hard to translate, but it's interesting how strong the beliefs are based on these scriptures.
@@turkeypedal you live in the reality that is, exactly, created by the God of the Bible. There is no context within the Bible, which makes homosexuality ambiguous.
The world is entrenched in a low IQ, antichrist representation of a Bolshevik revolution.
@@turkeypedalpeople seem to forget the simplicity that in the beginning God created a woman for and to complete a man. They were man and wife, and creation was perfected and considered good. Things are so simple. Homosexuality didn’t exist until after evil entered into the earth and men started to die 😂
Heretics are gonna heretic
Sad but true.
That's the nature of Protestantism.
Im gonna say this respectfully. Protestants gonna Protest.
@@fernandotemiquel4677classic Protestant heresy
I would still rather have a heretical church than mystery Babylon papacy
Romans 1:24-25 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Romans 1 shows the descent into evil. They start out knowing God but then decided not to glorify Him (Romans 1:21). Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
They continue down their dark path. Instead of following light to find more light, they follow darkness to find more darkness.
By verse 28 God gives them over to a reprobate mind. That's where God washes His hands of you and stops trying to reach you. He stops sending the Holy Spirit to get you to believe in Jesus and be saved. You're pretty much doomed at that point.
Every now and then one of these people finds Jesus but you have to wonder how many believers were praying for them? How many people loved them enough, even in the depth of their miserable sin, to witness the Gospel to them repeatedly?
No matter how bad someone is, even the worst of the worst, we should be praying for them.
After all, someone prayed for you when you were in the depths of your depravity.
Jesus Encounter Ministries UA-cam channel
Read Romans 2, though. "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. ..."
@@ChristianCatboy So you're saying Paul was wrong to "judge" all these people in Romans 1?
@@ChristianCatboyGod does not require Christians to condone immoral behavior
So very, very sad.... Separating the sheep from the goats, the Saints from the ain'ts, the wise virgins from the foolish....
Praise God that the United Methodist Church has made it clear that they are not Christian. Clarity is many times more useful because you know exactly who you are fighting against.
The catholics said the same thing about Protestants.
@@Griffologee The Catholics have the same problem as the Methodists. Good point.
@@Griffologeeprotestants never celebrated perversion.
LOL
@@reallysomebody nothing funny about any of this.
Good research Joshua!
The changes took decades.
So glad I am no longer associated with the UMC and their dirty tricks.
Jesus Christ isn't associated with it either.
@@jamestrotter3162 Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
We call it the United Methodist Mafia after the way they treated our church during this controversy.
It would have been better to not be a yellowbelly. Why turn tail and run when the fighting gets tough? Scared of losing? We have Christ on our side! We will prevail! Win the fight from within.
Its so typical to just run away, imagine if the diciples did this when they were persecuted or when they were shamed by the Pharasee. They could have just fled to somewhere else but no some of them still preached in Judea. The diciples were not cowards like those leaving the methodist church.
@@Athair48 But they did split up under persecution. The Church was mainly in Jerusalem. After being persecuted, the Church spread to Asia Minor and Greece.
This was God's plan. It wasn't an accident.
Thanks for the information. As a Free Methodist pastor, it deeply grieves me to hear about everything that has happened in the UMC.
I grew up in a small Free Methodist in PA. It closed years ago. I’m an Adult Sunday School teacher in the UMC. I use Wesley Pub House material. I’m sure it won’t be allowed now. Not sure what to do. Not many choices in my area. I’m heart sick.
Why? Because they are doing what Jesus asked of his followers. To love your neighbor as yourself? As a Christian you are to love the least of us; not condemn them.
@@RR64434 Just because you're called to love your neighbor doesn't mean you should allow them to live in their sin. As with any other sin they should repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and not live in sin chasing after the idolatry of their hearts.
@@TheGatrGamr What sin did “Jesus” say about gay people? He spoke more about greed, lies and the powers that be mistreating the poor and the meek. Are you going arpund telling rich people about the sin they live in?
@@RR64434 there is a number of verses in the Bible saying homosexuality is a sin. Since the whole Bible is the Word of God these means that Jesus teaches it. My guess is you would respond to that saying it means pedophilic relationships in terms of Paul’s letters. This is in fact false and unless you’re about to learn Greek we’d be at an impasse. So I hope you have a blessed day and that the Lord would open your eyes to this grave sin.
You're a blessing to the body of Christ. May God bless your endeavours. This was so informative
Thank you for this video Josh and all of your research! I grew up in the United Methodist Church, and my mom is still a UMC pastor. As someone who's no longer a Methodist (I joined a different denomination), but still connected to the church, it's been tough to see the division I saw as a kid continue to fester into what it how now. At the same time, being on the outside looking in, it's been hard to grasp the full picture. As always, you wonderfully summed up everything without lacking any necessary substance!
Your mom is a UMC non-Biblical pastor.
Meanwhile Eastern orthodoxy and arch traditional catholic sects are seeing record growth in the US. 🤔🤔🤔
What’s an “arch traditional catholic sect”?
@@HeatherFonseca SSPX specifically.
That'd be like Latin Mass Catholics, among others. They stick closer to their roots basically.@@HeatherFonseca
Are they really because they seem to have no impact in society.
Can't imagine they'll ever be all that prominent though
my church disaffiliated last year, we created a new church and joined the GMC. our new church is absolutely thriving, while those who stayed are withering on the vine. obedience brings blessings
Why would you side with the hateful churches instead of the loving churches?
@@20quid Hating sin is no vice, and loving it is no virtue.
(Note that I said sin, not sinner; For if I hated sinners I would first and foremost be required to hate myself, which I do not, nor should I)
Good luck. We'll be watching.
@20quid it isnt loving to lie to people to protect their feelings. I would argue that the more loving thing to do would be to speak the truth and help steer them back to Christ. also.. the things we warned about happening if we gave a green light to changing the book of discipline are happening. theyve opened pandoras box, allowing all kinds of sacrilegious things now. the people who stayed who were only worried about hurting the feelings of that one gay relative are having to reap what they sowed and I expect a lot of them to leave now. I told them that what they were doing is church suicide and what do ya know.. its a sad thing to watch
@@20quid I’m curious if you are referring to those who left as being hateful primarily on their stance on sexual issues or something that they did? I have multiple friends who are Methodist and have watched this with interest. I saw so many struggling with what they knew to be the Biblical stance versus what our overall society has convinced so many is correct. It was not an emotional decision because their emotions were torn. It was the exact opposite of heat. So I’m curious how you saw that so differently?
Josh- Your reporting on church matters is a gift to us all. I'm amazed at how you take complex topics and give such detailed analysis that is easily understood in a semi-short video. Thx brother! Keep it up!
The story of the present-day UMC is so much more complex than the issues surrounding homosexuality. The theology of the progressive Methodist Churches is embarrassing. Jesus is just one of many paths to God. The virgin birth is considered a myth. The Bible is no longer the authoritative word of God. It goes on and on. Behind this are the seminaries that train UMC pastors. There will be no place to appoint conservative ministers. There is a very complicated back story to this soap opera. To focus only on the issue of sexuality takes away from the real problems of the UMC.
Whenever theologians claim that Jesus is “one of many paths to God”, I wonder how they reconcile that with that passage in the New Testament where Jesus outright says that no one can go to the Father except through Him.
They ignore it. @@DiamondKingStudios
@@iagoofdraiggwyn98 Of course.
@@DiamondKingStudios I mean... you could take that as literal. No one can physically go towards God's body or gain citizenship in Yahweh works.
Don't forget "Jesus was a Socialist".
Kinda easy when so many churches left before the conference and what, the entire continent of Africa couldn't vote?
UMC delayed sending Africans invitations which made it difficult to obtain visas. Churches left as disaffiliation end date was Dec 2023. If a congregation did not leave by that date they couldn’t. All were fed up with the lack of enforcement of the book of discipline. Tired of the gamesmanship and dirty tricks by liberal Bishops.
@@joer5627 Why were any waiting around to leave? They should have left years ago. If the issue of homosexuality ever makes its way to a floor vote of a denomination, then that denomination as a Christian institution is over. If a denomination is uncertain about homosexuality, then it is time to leave it because it is not a difficult question. The homosexual lifestyle is clearly unbiblical and incompatible with a Christian life.
@@joer5627the part that makes me mad is due to bishops not enforcing disciplines, the traditionalist response was to give the entire church to the liberals.
Mostly correct. Back in 2019, they tried to pass these same liberal ideas. But, the conservative US-based churches, along with a big African contingent, not only defeated them, but they enacted their own policies that included churches being able to leave the UMC *and* retain church property (most of which was owned centrally by the UMC). Between then and now, most of the conservative churches left + the UMC pulled some shenanigans to make it more difficult for the African churches to participate = liberal now have a strong majority. They basically eliminated any remnants of the church, so it's just a social club at this point.
@67L48 I would describe most of Protestantism as a social club. I say this as a member of the GMC, wishing I had the option of an EO church.
Leaving my church after 38 years. It makes me sad that I have to leave and not those trying to change the Word.
The IRD has done a number of articles on the UMC's bureaucracy openly rigging the voting process to get this outcome. They denied assistance to overseas conferences to get visas, resulting in the lowest percentage of foreign delegates ever. They screened lay delegates on a congregation by congregation basis to ensure that non-affirming lay delegates would not be sent. They declared this an extension of the 2020 conference instead of a new conference because US membership had shrunk by ~15% in that time period and would result in a lower percentage of delegates allotted to the US. And much, much, much more.
And they won, and now they get to take the Church property. If people had put a stop to their shenanigans it might have been different, but here we are. The people who focus on fighting to win beat the people who focus on losing nobly.
The IRD bought votes before. They speak about what reflects their own actions. They sow dissent and propagated the splits in all Mainline churches.
Curious how that works. I moved and started attending for years, and probably leaving,but the church was built many decades ago and was paid off long ago.
The church was self owned. It joined the conference.
I guess it's like marriage. It becomes jointly owned. Problem is, unlike divorce, one gets it all it seems.
@@frpgplayer There is a clause in the UMC's constitution that declares that all church and agency property is held in trust by the UMC. This clause has existed in every constitution of the UMC going back to 1784 and every church that is formed or joins the UMC must vote to adhere to the UMC constitution and Book of Discipline.
Unlike the situation in the PCUSA and the Episcopal Church, where the trust clauses were added in the 1970s and 80s and without any affirmative vote by the congregations. The national bodies of those churches pretty much said, "We own your property now."
This is why there has been so much litigation over churches leaving the PCUSA and TEC but any litigation over leaving the UMC is a lost cause.
Playing fair would have been "extremely dangerous for their democracy."
GUESS it’s Ununited Methodist Church. Those that stand by the Bible as the Word of God and those that don’t stand by the Bible as the Word of God. The sheep/goat debate. The wheat/tare, saints/imitators.
Please don't blame all of them. Keep in mind that many congregations that would like to leave the UMC simply can't afford to pay the ransom to keep their real estate. It is really terrible when you realize that it was those same congregations that paid for their churches to begin with, but the conference bishop holds their deeds for who knows what evil purpose.
@@cathys465 "What will it profit a 'congregation' to gain the whole real estate only to LOSE its own SOUL?!" It's just stuff. It is NOT The Church
@@cathys465 Like I said above I never hear the saving grace and the rest of the Gospel of Christ in a church I went to over decades. Thankfully someone else told me about Jesus
Ungodly compromising
@@cathys465So their faith mission is a function of real estate holdings? Yep, that sounds like what Jesus would do.
Thanks for this clear and sad report. I knew many people in the 1980s who left the UMC as individuals because of issues like this where the local church has to accept doctrines of the national church which move away from long-held Biblical values. It is a slippery slope which will continue.
What even is the point of the church if you're going to accept doctrines like this?
Was brought up in the Methodists Church! My stepfather and i left 5 years ago when our pastor informed us that the church was being hijacked by liberal thinkers.The bible clearly points out sins and to ignore homosexuality isnt going to get you into heaven. I go to a Baptist Church now that teaches the Bible.
Such a great video. Thank you so much!
I knew it was in trouble when we had a female pastor who was on her third marriage and no one saw a problem with that.
Sheeple, sadly clinging to any community that reinforces a myth pushed into them in childhood, or because they are lonely.
@@onedaya_martian1238 You seem to be very much a sheep yourself. Why? If they were following a myth, they'd go where it is actually taught. Are you actually this ignorant?
"I knew it was in trouble when we had a female pastor" you could have just stopped there. Once a church strays from scripture, it has sort of invented its own religion, anyway.
@@67L48 If you weren't raised Weslyan, it's actually pretty common in the broader tradition to support female ministry. Even many of the more conservative Weslyan churches ordain women. That and the concomitant alcohol prohibitionist tendency were very characteristic in the past.
@@67L48 Yep. Female pastor? Bye.
Reminds me of when the US churches split over slavery in the 19th century, with the liberals creating their own churches based on progressive interpretations of the Bible and conservatives creating their own churches based on traditional interpretations.
Had a progressive UMC church down the street two years ago. That congregation slowly died out as they tried to embrace every inclusive initiative they could. Building was bought by a traditional Global Methodist Church. Building is bursting at the seams on Sunday mornings with young families.
That's totally something that actually happened.
@@20quid New Life Community Church in Summerside, Ohio, smarta$$
Thank you for producing this faithful narration of events. As a 20+ year UMC pastor, it's difficult to find resources for my congregation that are both sufficient and succinct. I'll be happy to share this video with them. Well done.
Why have you guys not left what has become an apostate denomination
@@StonyKalangowhat makes you an authority on it?
@@Griffologee ummm the word of God is the authority. Not me. The denomination is now gonna die a natural death anyway. It’s so sad because I used to be a part of it. When you throw away God and the authority of his word then people who truly love God are not gonna show up anyway, and just as every liberal denomination is dying completely, the Methodist will just follow suit. If you don’t teach the word of God, why should any true Christian bother showing up at church. Also the people who don’t really believe God anymore will probably spend the time in the bars than coming into a so-called church. Am sorry, thank God for your ministry of if you know what is best you will find a Bible believing denomination like the global Methodist or something else.
@@Griffologee I just said I am no authority. The Word of God is. If His word means nothing to you then I don’t know what you’re doing in ministry. You should go find another job doing something else. It’s as simple as that.
@@StonyKalango
To be frank, the word of God is interpreted differently by different people.
As always, I commend you for being more informative than almost any other source on contemporary church issues while remaining objective. It is very very much appreciated!
So, they are going full apostate and no longer service the Christ they proclaim. If you care for your soul, LEAVE.
A Catholic would say that exact thing to a protestant lol
If you think that I’m going to hell for daring to fall in love and dream of having a family, and I have to sit in your pew and be told what a wicked sinner I am for wanting love and peace… then I will gladly take brimstone.
Needless to say all foretold in the scriptures about the end days.
I for one see our lord returning sooner than later! Happy Days!
I am right in the middle of this - and did you ever do a great job in giving context and getting the facts right. Fantastic work!
Anyone surprised about this should review the parable of the wheat and tares. I'm honestly fine with this. It's becoming easier to know who is aligned with Jesus now.
Definitely! I for one am very glad that the UMC has put in the effort to align themselves closer to Jesus over the past few days.
And now a part of the order of social clubs.
This "Church" won't exist in 15 years.
It will be under the foot of Rome!
Neither will the Southern Baptists based on their own membership data, and you can't find a more anti-LGBT church.
What I find immoral is preventing churches leaving, taking property, and then talking Jesus love. A car thief has more honor in admiting they stole it.
And it says a lot about the people who have taken over that they ignored the rules and bylaws of the denomination for years in support of the LGBTQ agenda, but, now, all those same leaders are sticklers for the rules when it comes to congregations leaving the denomination.
It's one of the major issues with organized religion. I'm religious but have a big issues with Conferences. Taking everything from a church that wants to split off is soo Immortal.
Ok, the group that splits off can't use the denomination's name, that is ok. And maybe the Conference keeps the property/church/land. But any money the local group has collected is the group's. They worked for it, so they keep it.
There are other major issues I have with Conferences, but this one is near the top.
I left the UMC in 1981, knowing back then where it was headed. Liberal Democrats playing church.
My mother lamented that her UMC in LA has been trying to leave for years and even have lawyers. If this is happening elsewhere, more exits are probably being delayed for whatever reason.
Y'know - It's really simple. You either accept the Word of God or you reject the Word of God. It's the same choice Adam had.
This is nothing less than the apostasy of the last days. Yet, it would seem God has hardened their hearts, as he is known to do with those who wish to reject the Holy Spirit (the Author of the Word of God).
In God's Word, we learn that God rained fire down on Sodom. To this day, He has not restored that city. Do you think maybe God was trying to make a point?
I grew up UMC but left the church in 2016. I’m now a Catholic.
i was Methodist at one point and left over this issue. it's really sad to see the church tearing itself apart.
Same here. UMC is heretical leaving God's Word behind.
If they have fundamental differences in their beliefs, isn't it preferable that they split? A religious organisation is supposed to be a group of people with the same religious beliefs.
The problem is they want to have a Church in Christs name but don’t follow HIM.
@@thomasdalton1508the lack of debate seems to be the larger issue - ignoring other people’s feelings on the matter will always lead to tension and eventually separation. as an LGBT person myself i fear things like this cause people to falsely believe that LGBT people and christianity are somehow incompatible, leading to a further entrenchment of homophobia and prejudice.
the UMC needs to take a step back and evaluate how they handled this.
@@polikuszka I wouldn't describe it as a lack of debate. It is just that the debate has already happened. Everyone already knows everyone else's views on the subject. It was time to just make a decision.
I left the church in 1985, and never looked back. My life has done nothing but get better.
Just realized that Jesus did not fail you, the flawed humans who you put your trust in failed you. Come back to Jesus. He is trustworthy
@@ninjason57pretty sure he means he left the UMC not Christianity
Just for clarification, did you leave the United Methodist Church or the entire body of Christ?
That’s what I figured but I think we should make sure
Yeah, I don't know what that actually means.
There’s a fourth “R”. Relativism which is exactly what this is. It can’t be wrong 50 years ago and right now.
Watching this I'm reminded of how many Christian denominations split over slavery in the 1800s, very curious to see how history remembers this one.
I have a feeling that, as always happens, history will look favorably on the group trying to uphold the rights of a historically-oppressed minority group
@@MrWill9894I don’t think this is about rights. I think this is about following God’s Word and abstaining from sexual immorality.
It becomes about rights when religious folk use their beliefs to write bigoted laws that prevent, say, gay people getting married. If you want to keep your bigotry in the church- go for it, but understand that these kinds of beliefs push people away from religion. I live in a heavily catholic state and do you know what church is the most popular? The LGBT-accepting Methodist church
I have a feeling a lot of "traditionalist" dissidents have been jumping ship for other streams of Evangelicalism entirely rather than trying to stay to save Methodism.
A few UMC megachurches decided to disaffiliate and just carry on as generic non-denom megachurches rather than join the GMC.
For those who are determined to have their infants baptized there is the Church of the Nazarene. I supsect many others have just gone to Assemblies of God, ARC churches, etc.
I'll bet the GMC changes its name to drop the Methodist label within the next 15 years as well. It just doesn't carry the weight it used to.
Perhaps the time for Methodism has expired.
I'm not even sure what a Methodist Church is...
If you want your baby baptized, the RCC and EOC is the way to go...
God didn't make denominations. That was never His intention. It is time for Christendom to stop following denominations that came as a result of a movement.
I doubt that will happen. If anything GMC churches and schools are doubling down on Wesleyan classes and bands, digging deep into their DNA for the Methodist practices that had been lately abandoned.
I am a theologically conservative but politically very moderate Methodist. I was somewhat in favor of disaffiliation. But the GMC holds no appeal for me. Here in Alabama, it is typically a breeding ground of Trumpist white nationalism and that is just as bad as ultra-progressivism. However, going independent would have left our church bankrupt. It was a no-win scenario. I will faithfully teach the gospel in my Sunday School class made up of people my parents' age, nearly all over 70. Some almost 90. In short order, when either the church folds or my class have all died, my wife and I will probably move on to another church. Where, I don't know. Our community is 90% full of Baptist churches where Christian = MAGA and this is diligently enforced. We are too old to tolerate driving for hours each week to support a moderate Anglican Church 30 miles away. We'll see what happens.
Thank you for your video. I really appreciate it. I was actually waiting for this video to better understand the story behind all these things happening in the Methodist Church. I have a Methodist Minister, but in a much more Conservative and more rural area. He told me that things are much more traditional, but he told me his church would probably collapse if things changed to more liberal ideas.
I admire the objective presentation in this video. I sympathize with the Methodists and ex-Methodists who still believe in the gospel. And I am profoundly grateful for the authority Jesus Christ himself vested in his teaching Church, still present in the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Come and see.
The amount of information provided by this guy in his various videos is impressive. Journalism that actually reports the facts, instead of just giving opinions. A refreshing change
There is one Church, and it’s not the one filled with heresy.
Is it filled with men who molest boys, and women who brutalize girls? I'm dubious.
The holy Catholic Church
That’s catholic with a lower case c…
heresy according to whom? according to the catholic church?
@@HeHasRisen. Yes just not the Roman one
You might notice that in all the proclamations mentioned by Josh, absolutely none of them mentioned that they came about their conclusions from the Bible. Doesn't the Bible matter to these people?
What Bible? Whats that? Anybody seen a Bible lately?
I am now a former Methodist and we had a Conference employee call the Bible a stupid book during a sermon this year. Tells you where the UMC leadership stands. Sad to see them embrace the world.
Nope.
A Methodist Pastor in our town said you had to go outside the Bible to other sources to get the full truth.
lol. If they did they couldn't do any of this stuff. Its not about God ir what he wabts. Its about the Alphabet people and what they want.
Our former UMC congregation was among the first to leave in our state and quickly joined the GMC. We had been dealing with progressives for long enough to realize that they were going to turn the UMC into a denomination driven by pop culture theology. We have more than doubled in size since that decision, with people transferring from UMC churches that didn't disaffiliate. We have worked to reaffirm what is Biblical and Wesleyan. We lost only one adult member (and his three children) because of lour decision to leave. Our challenge has been assimilating, and finding a role in our ministries for everyone in our reconstructed congregation. We have already added two outreach ministries, as well as several new classes and groups. I expect that the decisions at this General Conference will shock many UMC members, and shake loose a few people that were previously loyal to the UMC name.
It requires hubris to think you know better than 2,000 years of theology and go against what is not once affirmed in the Bible, but rather on the contrary numerous times. This is why I’m increasingly interested in the Catholic Church - strong Christian authority and theological tradition
Are you kidding? Purgatory? Mary and idol worship? Salvation from a piece of bread? Unbiblical, unbiblical, unbiblical.
Stick with the Bible. There's your solid tradition and foundation. There's a reason it's called "the Word of *God."*
Orthodoxy welcomes you too! Neither Catholics nor Orthodox worship idols. There is nothing wrong with requesting the mother of Jesus to pray for us or to ask saints to pray for us, as it’s typical to ask other godly people to pray for us. Neither the orthodox or Catholics receive salvation from a piece of bread, rather it’s the body of Christ and that does not grant salvation alone.
You should not pray to dead people.
That is necromancy.
@@rubiks6Mary is the most holy mother of our Lord and deserves every veneration and honor, nobody worships her. The eucharist passage is literal and truly BIBLICAL, is an important part of salvation in every church with apostolic roots. Icons and statues arent idols.
"Stick with the Bible" yeah we see what happens to the 1000s of denomination supposedly sticking to the Bible. Stick with the Church that gave you the Bible instead. Only 2 options, Orthodoxy or Catholicism and they are much closer theologically than any 2 Protestant churches. Stop these already and easily refuted Protestant arguments.
@@rubiks6It's called the word of God by Tradition of the Church that has authority and wrote it. You abandon the mother Church at your own peril.
Your explanation of what is going on in the United Methodist Church and its most recent General Conference is more precise and thorough than that of any outside observer I have seen, and almost any inside source, as well. I admire and applaud your discipline in reporting the facts in a clear and concise manner. Unfortunately, in its quest for worldly approval and relevance, the UMC is giving up Biblical standards and truth. It is now contending for secular social and political goals rather than for the faith and the faithful.
may as well be Unitarians.
Another gay cooties fit.
All true believers who are still in the Methodist church, must leave that Apostate church.
But money and property!
I would recommend that they stay. This is a spiritual battle and giving up territory is how the enemy wins. I may not be a Methodist but Christians running away is an issue with society in general if you ask me.
@@trilight3597 The enemy's fate is already determined.
@@tehZevo_ True. Though I also believe we should do the work we are went to do on this earth even if we don't see the fruit of it. We must be diligent.
Not quite. There are multiple Methodist denominations, such as the Free Methodist Church and Methodist Protestant Church, that uphold the teaching of Scripture.
This is a sad, sad thing - to watch a Christian denomination reject the Word of God and crumble to pieces. Truly the sheep are being separated from the goats.
It should be illegal
The Southern Baptists, an anti-LGBT denomination, is currently crumbling to pieces based on their own published membership data. I guess they must have rejected the word of God when they decides to hate others for the crime of feeling love.
My church disaffiliated last year. Sadly some small churches in the area could not afford to
The UMC may have won this battle but they will not last. Many members will walk away and then there are those that dont want to be identified as the United Methodis Church of Perversion
I feel that in the next few years the UMC will find itself with a large amount of empty buildings and even smaller congregations. I don't see how they are going to survive embracing sin.
@@kathy3178 shhh... just let it happen. my church is in the market for a nice building with adequate parking lol.
John Wesley and past congregations can be heard in mass rolling in their graves.
Screaming from hell
Entire sanctification becomes a lot easier when you declare that sins are no longer sins.
It’s a good thing we don’t hold past leaders to be infallible and future-proof. Tradition is a valued component of the Wesleyan quadrilateral but it does not stand on its own.
Father John is presumably still being purgated of his anti-papistry. Father Charles may have received a suspended sentence to write some new material for the Heavenly choir.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Why would you say that John Wesley and earlier bible-believing Methodists are "screaming from hell"?
The Bible is just a book of suggestions to some of these people, isn't it?
Yep, so many people do not even try to abstain from sins such as gluttony, homosexuality, adultery, lying, theft, coveting, dishonoring elders, idol worship, usury, and more that are all in the Holy Scriptures. It is one thing to try to abstain from sin. It is another thing to make a sin your identity.
Yes. Many of these people reject even the most fundamental beliefs of Christianity (the resurrection, etc., even the very existence of Christ). Scripture as suggestion is frankly the central point of liberal theology. Their catechism is developed at the Democratic National Convention.
To all people. Christians today largely oppose slavery even though the bible condones it
Great Job! Thank you for the incredible summary and deep dive.
Thanks for the considered breakdown of the situation. The Methodists have come a long way from John Wesley rising up at four in the morning to pray for several hours and then spending the rest of the day peaching to most often hostile crowds. Yet his devotion to God basically saved England. This situation does not escape the notice of a Holy Creator.
I grew up United Methodist and loved my upbringing in the church, but I did leave due to this issue. The writing was on the wall and I couldn’t stay any longer.
I left for Orthodoxy and have not looked back since☦️
Glorious Resurrection to you tonight, Christ is Risen ☦️
@@franciscovasquez9417Thank you, Truly He is Risen!☦️
Wonderful! Glad you are on your way to Rome
Christ is risen from the grave
Trampling down death by death
And on those in the tombs bestowing life! ☦️
Blessed Pascha to all my brothers and sisters!
Hopefully everyone enjoys their Pascha.
Well, as far as I'm concerned, the UMC is now a completely apostate church.
After 50 years in leadership roles, I was told "Fact do not matter." and "Your concerns are not important to this church." My concerns did not have anything to do with this issue, but to the failure of the pastor to tell the truth, the failure of the trustees to follow the law, and a total lack of consideration of my views by all church members. I left the church, and it was the best thing I ever did. This recent decision shows I was right. You should belong to a church that shares your values.
Thank you for your even-handed, unbiased reporting! Very informative! And very well written and presented!
Thank you, Sharon!
I can’t believe so many churches stayed and so little left.
In most Annual Conferences it was very expensive for a congregation to leave the UMC. In some it was near impossible. A congregation also needed a super-majority of members voting to leave, and the vote had to be approved by the Annual Conference, which blocked some congregations from leaving. Roughly 25% of congregations disaffiliated, but I think another 25% will just disappear.
@@frzstat That's my prediction as well. The video is clear: Their average membership number is very small at this time. They'll simply to let those little conservative Churches to close down and sell the property. Most will close in the next few months as their members vote with their feet.
@@frzstat Right, so many of the churches there were not able to separate are going to be more vacant except in very liberal areas.
Money
I think a bunch simply could not afford to leave. or were taking a wait and see approach. I don't think they expected to get stuck. Many that left did so only becasue they did not want to risk it.
I left in 2022. It’s so sad. Most of my experience in the UMC was a warm hearted evangelicalism. It devolved into chaos.
Yes, I grew up in a very different Methodist church than is represented today.
Fine choice of words Pastor. Good on you.
Same, here. Not the Methodist church I grew up in. Very sad.
Sin will do that
I truly think the leadership was infiltrated by atheists. I don't think this is an isolated incident either.
The practice of homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian teaching. The Wesleys would be appalled with what just happened if they were alive today. No doubt they would have left the denomination. God can't truly bless any group condoning sin. So sad!
they likely would have burned it to the ground.
Sodom and Gomorrah! 🔥
Just like opposition to slavery
In reality, they would have probably left long ago. I believe they would have been opposed to slavery as well.
I converted to the catholic church from methodism last year. I left the church after they had the kids singing “born this way” by lady gaga right after they sang “jesus loves the little children” what’s crazy is ive met a bunch of recent converts. 1 episcopal, 2 other methodists, and one non denom. The church is booming! People love traditional churches and none are more traditonal than ours.
I saw a Methodist service where a couple of women sang the Disney song “Brave” on the “altar” or whatever they call the stage in front of the congregation. Very strange
East Orthodox is more traditional but yeah they are both the oldest.
Primitive Baptist
@@dylaneckstein2366 I like the orthodox, beards and glasses rock. They seem to hate me with an absolute passion and they come off as arrogant. Then when you have a good point they go all troll tactics. Probably just havent had the best experiences with them.
I am just curious. Why did you go to Roman Catholic Church and not an Orthodox Church
Our local congregation went independent and is now a community church.
Out of curiosity, is the word "Methodist" in there, too?
@@RonJohn63 nope. The Methodist logo is off the side of the building, replaced with simple cross.
@@RonJohn63 and my understanding is that people from ours and neighboring town have voted with their feet. So that the neighboring congregation voted to stay with the denomination, and the people that disagreed with the decisions of the 2 churches have switched churches.
@@joefromravenna does "methodism" have a logo? Or are you conflating methodism with the UMC?
@@RonJohn63 sorry, my bad. The UMC symbol. Locally we also have a Free Methodist congregation, so i do know better.
As a Catholic, we frequently pray at Holy Mass for our separated brothers and sisters. May God grant you all the peace of Christ during this time of strife in your church. Amen.
Have you had the opportunity to attend an lgbt union at your church yet?
@@francismarion6400 No idea what a union is, but I had two gay roommates at my Catholic university. Does that count?
@@derek4412 Union = Marriage
@@francismarion6400 The only marriages we have are between a man and woman who promise not to use contraception, open to life, freely consenting, and be exlusive with their bodies. Are you interested in learning more about Catholic teaching regarding Holy Matrimony and physical ethics? The Catechism of the Catholic Church has all teachings summarized between lines 1601 and 1666. I pray you find it spiritually edifying.
@derek4412 Then maybe you tell me what it means when Francis says to recognize same sex unions.
Church splits come and go. Christians have always disagreed with each other. Divorces help us to get out of unhealthy relationships and move on. We are made of clay. Let us wish each other well and press on.
They are finished. Every church that has gone this way has faded into oblivion.
It is amazing to me that the UMC seems to think that the Divine Will can be changed based on their voting against it.
Isn't that how Luther split the church ? Funny how a universal/catholic church morphed centuries after Jesus. Did God whisper in Martin's ear to fix the dogma ?
@onedaya_martian1238 No, Luther argued the Roman Catholic Church was going against God's will. Please don't straw man or just attack protestants, we aren't laughing about what is happening in the Catholic Church and you should be taking notes about what is happening in the methodist because it's coming to you very soon.
Thats not what Liberal Christians believe lol.
@@onedaya_martian1238 In a manner of speaking, yes, God spoke to Luther-through the scriptures. Luther read the scriptures, and when he realized that the church of Rome had fallen into apostasy, he called her back to the scriptures, which she refused, having fully embraced through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, and after the rudiments of the world, the doctrines of men and of devils, even as had done the children of Israel in going after false gods before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Luther's problem is that he didn't come out from her fully, never seeing his own use of that same philosophical system through which Rome had become a corrupted corruptor, which sadly was and still is true for many of the Protestant Catholic reformers and their spiritual descendants today.
There's always been an uncanny similarity between the will of the gods and the cultural practices of their worshipers.