I’m so confused why Kevin gets a pass for his pre-Jody parenting choices. On the channel, he is clearly complicit & enabling the harm Ruby is doing. I don’t blame him to the same extent as Ruby especially once Jody got in the picture. But it’s interesting in seeing how the internet responds to him vs someone like Jen Soto. Is it because we subconsciously don’t give fathers the same agency in parenting as mothers, seeing mothers as the default primary parent? Idk but it’s interesting to think about
I blame Kevin equally. He abandoned his children. He said he hadn't seen them in over a yr I think. That's not a father. That's a whipped dog. As a father I could never let that happen no matter the reason or consequence
Agreed. Jodi hurt countless families, and her tactics were particularly unforgiving towards the men- HOWEVER, Kevin doesn’t deserve to ride the coat-tails of heroes like Adam Steed. Kevin was happy to go along with Ruby’s cold blooded parenting tactics WELL BEFORE Jodi entered their lives.
Yes!! It angers me to no end that he is painted like the "good guy" in this evil mess 😡! Firstly his absence alone is a huge failure as a father to protect his children ...he hadn't seen them in over a year at the time of the arrest. It sounds like he knew things were spiriting out of control and Could see that the fake live in t"therapist " had her claws fully sunk in and he simply nope'd out and left his children to face the emotional turmoil that he himself couldn't hack 🤯.! I don't care if people say "they wouldn't let him see the kids" ...well he had an entire year to go to court and fight for his children if he was so protective ..but he did NOTHING ! Even if he was unaware of Just how bad the abuse had got ..it's his fault because he didn't even visits his children ...if he was so scared of the Witches why not go to the authorities to protect your dam kids!! Even "if" he truly had no idea about the horrific stuff going down in that house ....WHY ...did he call her up after she was arrested and the kids horrendous injuries/treatment were exposed and tell her that he's on her side and loves her spa much 🤢
thank you! its so wild to me how kevin could be so deep in a strongly patriarchal religion that has SO much to say about men being "the head of the household" and then just stand by and let his wife continue to publicly exploit his kids???? it's like kevin wtf were you doing??
I appreciate Megan discussing childhood emotional neglect. The absence of emotional validation in childhood is so harmful and lasting, and many victims have no idea this is why they are struggling, even as adults.
When I was 57 years old, my mother said "you know, I think you got kind of overlooked". It wasn't an apology, but at least it was an acknowledgement. All my life I thought it was all my fault
I listened to the entire audio book in a day. Couldn't stop listening... Shari is the narrator and hearing her tell her story was heart wrenching and captivating.
I reiterate what Megen said. I didn’t realize how impactful this book would be. No, I’ve never been Mormon. No my family didn’t plaster me all over UA-cam growing up. No, my mom didn’t join a cult or harm my younger siblings the way hers did. However, this is also a coming of age story. It’s also a girls story. It’s also a dysfunctional family story. It’s a religious trauma story. It’s a mental health story. It’s a seeking help story…. There are so many ways I connect to this book and I cried at so many moments reading it. This book is important!
You all really are some of the best podcasters and when you’re all together, you’re on fire. Just fabulous, all of you. Thank you for not only this episode, but all the hard work you all do individually too
John, please please please have Lauren, Megan, and Mindy back many times to talk on any topic they'd like. Amazing to listen to such brilliant people discuss important, meaningful topics!
Seeing how Kevin “folded” to Jodi’s pressure it made me want to applaud Adam Paul Steed all the more! 👏👏👏 He recognized the manipulation & tried to fight it & Jodi. He deserves a medal of honor!
He didn’t notice it right away though. People fall victim to cults all the time. You guys expect Kevin to be so high and mighty that he’s above everything.,
I was interested in this story and this came up on my algorithm, and so am new to the channel. I appreciate so much how the male moderator gives so much room for the women to talk and asks great questions of them!
This channel is amazing for truly sincere and heartfelt discussions. I'm not LDS but this deconstruction of the religion is endlessly fascinating as there are SO many Mormon Stories. 💫
I want to praise all of you for the kindness and empathy you brought to the discussion of this book. I also appreciate that the one man in the group left space for the women to discuss their difficult experiences within the church. You all seem like genuinely kind people.
I'm not convinced Ruby Franke ever did want kids. I know that sounds crazy, but Ruby seems to me like she gets ahold of an idea and sort of unquestionably follows it like instructions that will work for everyone, so when her family and her church told her "your fate is marriage and motherhood, that is the only place where you will find success. " I don't think it crossed her mind that she might not _like_ dealing w kids, and I think she struggled to empathize with Sheri or be patient with her (to put it mildly), as though mothering was not like what she thought it would be like.
I think Ruby saw motherhood as her only means of controlling others within her patriarchal religious structure. She wanted kids because those kids would be the people that she knew she could control completely which is what she craved most.
@@amyk6319 this is true and was the case in my family, where my mother knew she wanted 12 children, asked my dad before they married if he was up for it, he said yes and so they did. Only, my mom then controlled everything (including him, as much as he went along with what she demanded). I believe this happens in many Mormon families, with mom ‘needing’ someplace to feel in control, ‘on top’ of it all, though I don’t feel that this is consciously understood, admitted or realized by the women who are in, and perhaps feel forced into, this role.
to take it further, i think she resented motherhood and her treatment of her last two kids demonstrates how her resentment manifested. ruby was brainwashed into believing her only worth is in having children and being a stay-at-home mom, but it's not what she truly wanted and she took it out on her kids for sure
Someone said that sharis story of sa did not really connect to rubi but i would debate that. She was groomed to shut down and not be a voice or a person and push her feelings away from herself and her fisrt thought is not "what the h do you think you are doing! Get off me! " It was "oh nono onono not this!" Defeated by shame and groomed to not be rude or offended when showered w inappropriate gifts. Starved for attention. before her predator even made a move, she had been carefully groomed by her mother and the church. Another horrible experience she will have to heal herself . 😢
It also adds to the understanding of generational trauma. Having a hard childhood doesn’t prepare you better for adult life, it weakens you, makes you susceptible to worse stuff
@@TheMouse-gc9ft my hope is for healing among the siblings. It has seemed to me like the youngest two got the brunt of Ruby’s physical behavior, but the two middle girls were taught to trust “no one “ no even their siblings. I also wonder if Shari ever encountered Pam Borchardt, cause she does seem to have a hand in this, even if not to the extent as the youngest.
Some of you haven’t been in an abusive relationship. It appears kevin was in a mentally a suite relationship. (Men can also be abused) just because she was a woman doesn’t mean she couldn’t a suite him and reduce him to nothing.
Yup! Not sure if you read the book but she covered that. She pointed out how she learned to “fawn” because of how Ruby retreated her and in the situation with Derek she was “fawning.”
There is something so right about these long format livestreams on Mormon Stories. Thank you for your vulnerability to the panel. Megan even looks gorgeous while in tears. Shari Franke is to be commended for all of her work. If there is a child in the thumb nail, please do not click!
Yes I’m a never Mormon and so appreciate these long format interviews, oh and getting to know…women. And of course men, couples. Never thought this would be one of my most viewed channels.
Legit question, since I’m not immersed in this world: How many of these family bloggers preach (pun intended) about _not_ letting children be exposed to social media _while putting their children on social media?_ I feel like the Venn diagram of pearl clutching about children’s internet access and making money off of family vlogging is a circle.
I was never at the level of Ruby Franke and gave nurture and love to my babies and kids but I felt a bit of guilt and shame listening to this and how some of the LDS doctrines affected my parenting. We were taught to an extent that our kids behavior was on us and it was our job to save them and make sure they were faithful and obedient. This was good parenting. We weren’t taught that kids are independent humans and how to respect their choices on different levels. It did open a convo with my adult kids. I apologized for how my expectations affected them and grace was given for the things we as parents were taught and indoctrinated with.
What an amazing group, thank you for this discussion. You all took this on with so much respect and kindness. Protecting Shari, and each other’s differences with love. Thank you 😊
I learned the hard way that when I began to take responsibility for my actions and get myself straightened out, my children’s behavior also improved. Focusing on “fixing” our children is often a way we ignore our own problematic behavior. 1:55
I’m so impressed by the emotional maturity and perspective of Shari. Just a note to the inner child of Shari: you don’t have to do or be anything different to please anyone anytime; you’re fine as is.
When my wife died, I thought (after a while) that my kids needed to be in therapy. My son spent *7* therapy sessions teaching his therapist the history of the Marvel Comic universe. When his therapist told me... I laughed and said "maybe he isn't going to open up" I was there for him, and he found his way. He just needed Dad, and resented me passing off the responsibility. I feel so sad for Chad
I didn’t realize how long this episode was until I was 2 hours in! I could have watched even longer! Great commentary. I appreciated the vulnerability that was shared by the panel. Shari is a truly remarkable woman. She is so young to already have this much awareness of the problems of her upbringing. I wish her nothing but the best in her future.
Just came back wanted to say.. WOW Megan today must have been a whirlwind (emotionally etc) and you are holding it DOWN! I am always so happy when I get the opportunity to hear you speak..your comfort in your own skin, vulnerability and compassion always shine through ❤️🩹💛
In Germany they have law against parents showning children on the net! We in Sweden are working to copy that. Here its not ok for any school daycarecenter, any concept that involves children
OK you got me. At an hour and a half in I sample read the first 6 chapters and have now downloaded the audiobook. I'll come back to the video after I finish the book. It is so wonderful that despite her experiences Shari is a kind, funny and expressive person who stands up for justice and human rights.
In a very small part i also see myself in Shari. The fawning as a response to the trauma of a dysfunctional family is something I'm trying to unlearn. I admire her strenght for sharing her story and i wish her and her siblings all the best for their future!
This is so important to talk about and discuss. I hope Shari's experience and emotions will be listened to and will reach parents who are brrought up to parent the same way❤
I just love the work the four of you do on behalf of humanity. You model the tenderness and empathy that we all need ALL the time. Thank you for covering the difficult topics with so much heart. The band needs to do more epic book book studies! Looking forward to the next one (hint, hint)!
MORE COLLABS!!! The FAB FOUR!!!! 4 hours is NOT LONG ENOUGH !!! Longer episodes!!!!! We love yall! Thank you for your vulnerability and tenderness when addressing these issues. ❤
This was a wonderful episode. Thank you so much for sharing so vulnerably. I wish I knew at 20 what I know now at 61 years old, but it never too late to learn to trust your instincts and love yourself. It is great that Shari shared her journey with us.
Love this quartet! Thank you for the deep dive! And this book sounds amazing! A really insightful telling of her own story! I'm very impressed with Shari!
I’m extremely happy I found your podcast! I learned so much about the Franke family and Jody. So glad it was uncovered! Shari Franke, what an exceptional woman! Thank you Shari for your strength!
Does Shari address her relationship with Kevin in this book? He was so NASTY to her after Ruby got arrested. He tried to get Shari arrested for going with CPS to the house to pick up clothing and belongings for the little kids she was granted temporary custody of. She was graciously putting her own life on hold to raise Kevin and Ruby's children, and Kevin wanted Shari in jail. ANY sympathy I may have had for Kevin (and he really deserves none) was gone just from how he treated Shari. 😮
Just started watching American Primeval yesterday, couldn’t keep my eyes off of it and realized my high school teacher taught me about this specific time in history. My history teacher was an ex Mormon in Colorado. It was the apart of the beginning of my deconstruction in the church. He knew exactly what he was doing.
3:38:22 Can I get that on a t-shirt? This was such an excellent roundtable. Thanks to everyone at MS for putting this together, and thanks to Lauren, Megan & Mindy for traveling & presenting on such short notice. I so appreciate the sharing of your personal experiences. Your opinions are valuable & important to me. The conversations had in this episode are vital & need to be had publicly & repeatedly. My hope is that doing so will pierce the bubble. Mormon children deserve so much better, as does everyone else. Shari’s book is the 1st first purchase on my new Audible subscription.
I grew up in a family deeply embedded in the belief system that underpins waldorf education (anthroposophy). I've known for decades it's extremely toxic and has cult-like overlaps, but it still shocks me how much the culture of emotional/psychological abuse and neglect described in mormonism is utterly familiar to me. The description of SA, the cruelty of shari's parents manipulating her into paying for the meal where she'd hoped to find support, the groundwork laid by her narcissistic family culture that left her a prime target for a groomer and sexual predator - it's all stuff that's so familiar i feel momentarily unable to do anything but collapse and sleep. Poor, poor kid. It's heartbreaking
I had never heard of this, thank you for sharing! I've only heard positive things about Waldorf schools but after reading more I'm glad to know the other side.
This was a hard episode to watch, but you were all spot on with your critique of life inside the Mormon bubble. I just want more people to understand what it is like to be raised in a Mormon family.
I’m never Mormon and I wanted to say that authoritative parenting is not only an LDS method of parenting. I was a child in the’60’s and my parents and others parented the same way. Let the baby cry itself to sleep was a common practice. I remember when my parents were babysitting their first grandchild. I was about 8 when my nephew cried so much, I was in bed crying for the baby. That emotion stuck with me all these years. I don’t blame parents though, because they were doing the best they knew. Many followed Dr. Spock’s book on raising children.
*Authoritative Parenting* is the same thing as *Gentle Parenting* or *Positive Parenting.* You’re thinking of _Authoritarian Parenting._ There are four types: Authoritative, Permissive, Authoritarian, and Neglectful. Authoritative (Positive): are nurturing and instructive Permissive (Indulgent): are nurturing but fail to instruct their children or hold them accountable Authorization (Disciplinarian): are strict, inflexible, inflict harsh punishments, and expect complete subordination Neglectful (Uninvolved): are neither nurturing nor disciplinary, offering little more than the basic necessities required for survival
I am here because of Lauren, the host is/was correct, she is wonderful and amazing. I learned a lot so far. I am just 45 minutes in and hope to catch up more later. I just ordered the book and hope to read it in the next few weeks. TY great presentation so far. I will like and subscribe.
Great podcast 👏👏👏 After reading the book, I would love you to talk more about Pam please. She’s as bad as Ruby and Jodie. I also would like a more in-depth discussion about the in-laws on each side of the family. And the Haymonds, only for them god knows what may have happened to Shari, they gave her the strength to fight and their support is outstanding. If you’re reading this Shari, you are a wonderful young girl, you saved your siblings and one day you’ll be known for the good you’ve brought to this world and the changes you’ve brought to into law to keep children safer ❤🇮🇪
Wonderful, thoughtful episode. I love how you all keep bringing together threads of both mainstream and unofficial LDS beliefs in different cases and showing the resonances.
As a Kinsey 6 lesbian who grew up Southern Baptist, I think I'm not super surprised about the part about Ruby holding multiple people's hands at once while she was dating Kevin. Depending on what Ruby really has going on there... if she's gay, gay then what she was doing is just going through some motions she knew she was supposed to go through but with exactly none of the feelings a straight person would feel. If she really is gay, she (by definition) wasn't attracted to Kevin. She wasn't attracted to anyone she would've been allowed to pursue. But she was SUPPOSED to be attracted to SOMEONE. So, she just had to sort of mimic what she thought attraction should look like it as best she could. So, it comes out cold and weird because, well, it is. Imagine a situation where John HAD to marry some dude...any dude. And having to convince SOMEONE that he was totally romantically into them...what that would look and feel like. That's what Ruby was doing. Bonnie talked about Ruby being different and it seeming like she was just mirroring other people's behavior. That happens when you're trying to mask your identity. You're made to be terrified of who you really are, but you're not wired to look and feel like everyone else so you just have to fake it and spend all your time monitoring if it's working. Obviously lots of people go through that exact experience without, ya know, horrifically abusing their children or firing up a predatory, psychologically abusive cult. But it could explain some of Ruby's fakeness and weirdness and I ABSOLUTELY think it played into her religious obsessiveness. Because if you're gay and don't break out of these ultra homophobic religions at least mentally...if you're gay and you buy what they're selling... it WILL send you into this spiral of fear and self-hate and fear and hatred of people like yourself. And I think that was plastered all over that Connexions propaganda. And honestly, I think it's plastered all over right wing political culture war stuff right now. There was a standard the church set for her that she had zero hope of ever meeting ever no matter what she did and it made her angry and obsessive over it. She desperately wanted perfection and she might as well have been trying to pray hard enough to be 6 feet tall.
I have so many comments on this book, it healed me in ways I didn’t know I needed, I thank Shari for sharing her story, I recognize so much of my childhood and myself in this. That being said I feel as though the church originally denounced therapy because mental heath specialists recognize the control the church has over its members. And then they now have their own mental heath specialists to council their members and magically it’s okay and important.
What a great group of smart people and glad you’re covering this book. I put this in my audio book queue (read by author) yesterday. This channel’s in depth coverage of the Franke/Hildebrandt case (through long form, thoughtful interviews) is so helpful. So heartbreaking what happened to Shari re D. I was not expecting that. First I’m glad there’s more understanding of the freeze response now. This a valid and not uncommon response. Megan, you mention how women blame themselves. I recently saw a doc re adult men s/a’d by a certain celebrity years ago. Tough guys. 30s. Ex military in some cases. That was part of the “thrill” for the s/a-er it seems. They routinely thought “what did I do to cause this” and felt shame. Amazing. Why do women and men have that bio-response? And then I think of very young people trying to work through this…
Extraordinary. Cannot believe I listened to the end. I’m glad I did. Meegan at the end really helped me understand narcism and how it develops. I spent 20 years in high demand religion led by my partner and I wondered how it seems his narcissism seemed to get worse. I wasn’t sure when and where it started and how blind was I from the beginning.
I had to drive almost 4 hrs today. I so enjoyed this podcast. (I finished it at my destination). Wow, what a book by Shari. I cried a lot for her. All of you are awesome. Thank you!
Ruby actually had a steady boyfriend from age 15 until she finished high school. She made a video when Shari turned 16 talking about how proud she was she was doing things differently then she had as she had spent the evening of her own 16th birthday driving around with her steady boyfriend and kissing him. I’m a reformed shameful past viewer of 8 passengers. I grew up in an unstable home and the image the channel put off appealed to 18yo me and since my own mum was catholic and had a relatively strict parenting style, at least up until my mid teens anyway, so ruby’s style didn’t seem too out of the realm to me. Sure she was more strict than my own mum, but not by an unimaginable amount. By the end of my early 20’s I was having a very different view on the channel and stopped watching early 2020.
Thank you for such a comprehensive, thoughtful and compassionate coverage of this book. Appreciate all the different lenses and perspectives the panel was able to bring because of their different backgrounds. You’ve managed to achieve the goal of exposing Jodi / connexions for the danger that it is, help identify the signposts and flags of manipulation and other cult like behavior, while managing to steer clear of a sensationalised and exploitative approach vis a vis the victims (the pitfall into which much true crime coverage falls) to a very complicated, heavy and disturbing story.
Accolades to Shari for her courage, strength, wisdom and authenticity. All the caregivers and adults in her life failed her. Seemingly by her BYU affiliation, she has not yet realized the LDS faith has also failed her. Shari has a bright and promising future.
I love every one of these women - they are all inspirations! Let me just add that the last time y'all got together I almost cracked a rib laughing with John, who couldn't stop chuckling at one of Jody's videos (the word "hard" was mentioned many times). I will buy Shari's book after listening to today's discussion. I was so horrified by her account of SA and how she was treated by the church afterwards. I mean, I grew up in the church and already know how this sort of story goes, but hearing Shari's own story was so haunting and made me sick to my stomach. Someone expose the perpetrator, please. Justice for Shari!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔 So much similarity to my life under the Plymouth Brethren / Cslvsnist / Bob Jones / Bill Gothard / Dianetics etc dynamics that my father and stepmother were immersed in. The 'Everything is good in public' rings loudly. "Your Spirit just needs to be broken" was the 'go to' dictum. When I was finally sent to secular counseling and it was suggested that my issues were understood to be linked to a dysfunctional family dynamic needing to be addressed. The thought that my parents needed to be included in counseling, too, was dismissed, and that was that. I was sent to BJA for handling. So much to unpack here. Thank you so much. Need to get the audio book if and when it is available.
After reading this book I am even more convinced that Ruby is an incredibly angry, belligerent woman who never liked being a parent and took it out on her children. I can’t imagine parenting the way Ruby did. I feel for Shari and her siblings the layers of trauma and betrayal they must have experienced in that family must be immense.
Awesome panel. Absolutely loved it. Shari(edit) is an amazing strong women. I hope her and her family get to heal and I will definitely be buying the book.
John, Lauren, Megan and Mindy, thank you all for discussing this with maturity and insight. Many commentators have only had a shallow understanding of Ruby, without knowing much about the various external factors that influenced her. (Ultimately though it was her responsibility, thoughts and choices. Such a sad sad situation.)
I hope LDS leaders listen to this. The insidious pressure put on LDS people, particularly mothers, to be seen as perfect with perfect children, a perfect marriage, a perfect house, perfect church attendance and a perfect body is ridiculous. Something needs to change in the way we are taught to live our lives and just ‘be’. I feel sickened every time I see or hear this underlying message put to us by our leaders, especially to the youth. It’s no surprise why younger people 18-40ish (that’s young to me 😜) are leaving the church. The pressure and hypocrisy is too much!
Shari’s first sexual encounter with Derick broke my heart. She was raped. There is no other way to honestly describe what happened to her. Her trauma was gut wrenching, particularly because she wasn’t capable of recognizing the experience as an assault that she was not responsible for. Then to have the added spiritual trauma of having her temple recommend removed as a result, essentially blaming her for what happened while her perpetrator received no punishment from the church. Also, I think her temple recommend was removed to silence her. She was dependent on the bishop to restore her recommend which would make her very unlikely to speak publicly about the assaults. This makes it doubly brave of her to speak up about this in her book.
I started following the Griffiths grandparents during Covid and loved them. I just learned a month ago the connection with the Griffiths family and that Ruby was their daughter😅. I can’t imagine the struggle they are all going through. Thank you for sharing your take on all of this. Each of you have brought a prospective to what Shari was going through. It all overwhelms me. I am a never Mormon. Your words have shown a different light. I will purchase the novel.
There is so much to be learned from this book. I can't even imagine the level of courage it took to release it. I personally am apart of an organization that are online decoys that pose as underage kids and online preds reach out to us. Long story short, we always involve police. Shari describing her interactions with that man happens more often than people realize. As a decoy, we get told those same things on a daily basis. All in hopes that in these predator's minds, they can gain more and more control. It's crazy to me still how these people can find those who are lost in life almost like a heat seeking missle. I have to give her huge props for sharing such an awful time in her life and I hope that it helps people see the different signs of abuse. I'm excited to see what her future holds.
Scientific studies show that when someone is filming they are detached from what is going on in front of the lens. It applies to cameras recording crimes in process without stepping in to help a victim.
What particularly shocked me about Ruby's way of raising children was the stark consistency with a parenting guide from 1936 in Germany Johanna Haarer: "Die deutsche Mutter und ihr erstes Kind"The german mother and her first child. The aim of this book was to educate children to become obedient and strong citizens of Nazi Germany, that is, Hitler’s soldiers and mothers who were keen to give birth to as many babies as possible. I know this is an uncomfortable thesis, but I see similarities of a totalitarian inhumane system to these religious requirements. Personal feelings were not welcome, only the big, fantastic whole mattered. By the way, Johanna Haarer`s book was officially available for purchase until 1986, how creepy. In the meantime, several studies have proven that J. Haarer was an extremely narcissistic mother, brutal and without any connection to her children. One reason: "Leave the child alone for 24 hours after birth so that no monkey-like dependency develops". I love to listen your podcast, greetings from Germany
I watched 8 Passengers, E&J, Bonnie, and Jennifer (Chad) Griffith vlogs, as well as followed them on Instagram. After Ruby was arrested, I began to reflect on the similar underlying tone of Bonnie & their mother's vlogs. It made me feel like Ruby's upbringing mirrored her own childrearing. Ruby's style of discipline (abuse) was learned, she experienced what she inflicted on her kids. Bonnie's own vlogs also touched on the, "spoil the rod" approach to discipline. Although since Ruby's incarceration Bonnie has rolled back on that what she showed on her vlog. I often felt like Bonnie's eldest child, Olivia would similarly have her own realization as her cousin Shari. I truly hope that the Griffith, Mecham, Hollein, and Deru (Shari's maternal family) will read the book with an open mind, and heart. As I say this the only one I feel that will be genuine will be her aunt Julie, only bc right b4 the Deru's moved the were very present in Shari's life as a safe landing spot during her chaos.
I’m the same as you in following all the family. I met them all at a meet up. The only one I didn’t care for was Jared’s father. I even talked to Ruby and felt that she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She said she wasn’t handling the negativity given her children in the comments by the trolls. I have followed Lauren Mathias, who is awesome. I know Mindy’s aunt who is my high school classmate. Another classmate is an Uncle to Julie’s husband, the Deru’s. It’s a small world.
I’m so confused why Kevin gets a pass for his pre-Jody parenting choices. On the channel, he is clearly complicit & enabling the harm Ruby is doing. I don’t blame him to the same extent as Ruby especially once Jody got in the picture. But it’s interesting in seeing how the internet responds to him vs someone like Jen Soto. Is it because we subconsciously don’t give fathers the same agency in parenting as mothers, seeing mothers as the default primary parent? Idk but it’s interesting to think about
I blame Kevin equally. He abandoned his children. He said he hadn't seen them in over a yr I think. That's not a father. That's a whipped dog. As a father I could never let that happen no matter the reason or consequence
Agreed. Jodi hurt countless families, and her tactics were particularly unforgiving towards the men- HOWEVER, Kevin doesn’t deserve to ride the coat-tails of heroes like Adam Steed. Kevin was happy to go along with Ruby’s cold blooded parenting tactics WELL BEFORE Jodi entered their lives.
Yes!! It angers me to no end that he is painted like the "good guy" in this evil mess 😡! Firstly his absence alone is a huge failure as a father to protect his children ...he hadn't seen them in over a year at the time of the arrest.
It sounds like he knew things were spiriting out of control and
Could see that the fake live in t"therapist " had her claws fully sunk in and he simply nope'd out and left his children to face the emotional turmoil that he himself couldn't hack 🤯.! I don't care if people say "they wouldn't let him see the kids" ...well he had an entire year to go to court and fight for his children if he was so protective ..but he did NOTHING ! Even if he was unaware of Just how bad the abuse had got ..it's his fault because he didn't even visits his children ...if he was so scared of the Witches why not go to the authorities to protect your dam kids!!
Even "if" he truly had no idea about the horrific stuff going down in that house ....WHY ...did he call her up after she was arrested and the kids horrendous injuries/treatment were exposed and tell her that he's on her side and loves her spa much 🤢
I feel exactly the same way
thank you! its so wild to me how kevin could be so deep in a strongly patriarchal religion that has SO much to say about men being "the head of the household" and then just stand by and let his wife continue to publicly exploit his kids???? it's like kevin wtf were you doing??
I appreciate Megan discussing childhood emotional neglect. The absence of emotional validation in childhood is so harmful and lasting, and many victims have no idea this is why they are struggling, even as adults.
And emotional neglect and abuse is not illegal, which is a huge problem since it can sometimes be even as damaging more damaging.
Kinda hard to follow if you haven’t read the book
@@megsmann5414 it’s not hard to follow if you’ve experienced it.
When I was 57 years old, my mother said "you know, I think you got kind of overlooked". It wasn't an apology, but at least it was an acknowledgement. All my life I thought it was all my fault
I listened to the entire audio book in a day. Couldn't stop listening... Shari is the narrator and hearing her tell her story was heart wrenching and captivating.
Same !
I'm starting a second listen!
Same
I reiterate what Megen said. I didn’t realize how impactful this book would be. No, I’ve never been Mormon. No my family didn’t plaster me all over UA-cam growing up. No, my mom didn’t join a cult or harm my younger siblings the way hers did. However, this is also a coming of age story. It’s also a girls story. It’s also a dysfunctional family story. It’s a religious trauma story. It’s a mental health story. It’s a seeking help story…. There are so many ways I connect to this book and I cried at so many moments reading it. This book is important!
Like Tim Ballard does to his own kids, and involves them in his crimes *allegedly
You all really are some of the best podcasters and when you’re all together, you’re on fire. Just fabulous, all of you. Thank you for not only this episode, but all the hard work you all do individually too
Ditto. I agree!
Add Donald Trump same
Agree
This is one of the BEST podcasts I have ever watched. Thank you MSP. Well done.
John, please please please have Lauren, Megan, and Mindy back many times to talk on any topic they'd like. Amazing to listen to such brilliant people discuss important, meaningful topics!
Seeing how Kevin “folded” to Jodi’s pressure it made me want to applaud Adam Paul Steed all the more! 👏👏👏
He recognized the manipulation & tried to fight it & Jodi. He deserves a medal of honor!
Absolutely!
Agreed..
@@jathompson37 well said .... Justice for Adam Paul Steed and children and present family!
Yes 👏👏👏
He didn’t notice it right away though. People fall victim to cults all the time. You guys expect Kevin to be so high and mighty that he’s above everything.,
Yesterday I was thinking to myself - I wonder when John will release an episode on Shari’s book! You never disappoint and you brought in the A team!!!
I was interested in this story and this came up on my algorithm, and so am new to the channel. I appreciate so much how the male moderator gives so much room for the women to talk and asks great questions of them!
I recommend the whole coverage of the whole story
This channel is amazing for truly sincere and heartfelt discussions. I'm not LDS but this deconstruction of the religion is endlessly fascinating as there are SO many Mormon Stories. 💫
@@TrueCrimeDoulatotally agree. I am a never Mo but this channel helped me deconstruct my evangelical upbringing.
Dr John is amazing at giving women space and empathy to express themselves. It’s why I’ve been a long time subscriber
I want to praise all of you for the kindness and empathy you brought to the discussion of this book. I also appreciate that the one man in the group left space for the women to discuss their difficult experiences within the church. You all seem like genuinely kind people.
Couldn’t have said it better. Exactly how I felt after watching it.
I'm not convinced Ruby Franke ever did want kids. I know that sounds crazy, but Ruby seems to me like she gets ahold of an idea and sort of unquestionably follows it like instructions that will work for everyone, so when her family and her church told her "your fate is marriage and motherhood, that is the only place where you will find success. " I don't think it crossed her mind that she might not _like_ dealing w kids, and I think she struggled to empathize with Sheri or be patient with her (to put it mildly), as though mothering was not like what she thought it would be like.
I think Ruby saw motherhood as her only means of controlling others within her patriarchal religious structure. She wanted kids because those kids would be the people that she knew she could control completely which is what she craved most.
@@amyk6319 100 % This
@@amyk6319 this is true and was the case in my family, where my mother knew she wanted 12 children, asked my dad before they married if he was up for it, he said yes and so they did. Only, my mom then controlled everything (including him, as much as he went along with what she demanded). I believe this happens in many Mormon families, with mom ‘needing’ someplace to feel in control, ‘on top’ of it all, though I don’t feel that this is consciously understood, admitted or realized by the women who are in, and perhaps feel forced into, this role.
@@amyk6319 I agree 100%
to take it further, i think she resented motherhood and her treatment of her last two kids demonstrates how her resentment manifested. ruby was brainwashed into believing her only worth is in having children and being a stay-at-home mom, but it's not what she truly wanted and she took it out on her kids for sure
Someone said that sharis story of sa did not really connect to rubi but i would debate that. She was groomed to shut down and not be a voice or a person and push her feelings away from herself and her fisrt thought is not "what the h do you think you are doing! Get off me! " It was "oh nono onono not this!" Defeated by shame and groomed to not be rude or offended when showered w inappropriate gifts. Starved for attention. before her predator even made a move, she had been carefully groomed by her mother and the church. Another horrible experience she will have to heal herself . 😢
Absolutely, and how are you supposed to learn to stand up for your autonomy when it's beaten out of you from the very start.
It also adds to the understanding of generational trauma. Having a hard childhood doesn’t prepare you better for adult life, it weakens you, makes you susceptible to worse stuff
@@TheMouse-gc9ft my hope is for healing among the siblings. It has seemed to me like the youngest two got the brunt of Ruby’s physical behavior, but the two middle girls were taught to trust “no one “ no even their siblings. I also wonder if Shari ever encountered Pam Borchardt, cause she does seem to have a hand in this, even if not to the extent as the youngest.
Some of you haven’t been in an abusive relationship. It appears kevin was in a mentally a suite relationship. (Men can also be abused) just because she was a woman doesn’t mean she couldn’t a suite him and reduce him to nothing.
Yup! Not sure if you read the book but she covered that. She pointed out how she learned to “fawn” because of how Ruby retreated her and in the situation with Derek she was “fawning.”
Thank you, John, for having Lauren, Megan, and Mindy on your show. It was so informative 😊
There is something so right about these long format livestreams on Mormon Stories. Thank you for your vulnerability to the panel. Megan even looks gorgeous while in tears. Shari Franke is to be commended for all of her work. If there is a child in the thumb nail, please do not click!
Yes I’m a never Mormon and so appreciate these long format interviews, oh and getting to know…women. And of course men, couples. Never thought this would be one of my most viewed channels.
Legit question, since I’m not immersed in this world: How many of these family bloggers preach (pun intended) about _not_ letting children be exposed to social media _while putting their children on social media?_ I feel like the Venn diagram of pearl clutching about children’s internet access and making money off of family vlogging is a circle.
Love Mindy, Megan, and Lauren. I appreciate their thoughtful conversation about this book.
Plus, our John... wise, compassionate, knowledgeable, caring, dedicated. Bless you, Dear John.
I was never at the level of Ruby Franke and gave nurture and love to my babies and kids but I felt a bit of guilt and shame listening to this and how some of the LDS doctrines affected my parenting. We were taught to an extent that our kids behavior was on us and it was our job to save them and make sure they were faithful and obedient. This was good parenting. We weren’t taught that kids are independent humans and how to respect their choices on different levels. It did open a convo with my adult kids. I apologized for how my expectations affected them and grace was given for the things we as parents were taught and indoctrinated with.
Great panel!!! So enjoyed this talk and very proud of Sheri. What a remarkable young woman.
What an amazing group, thank you for this discussion. You all took this on with so much respect and kindness. Protecting Shari, and each other’s differences with love. Thank you 😊
I learned the hard way that when I began to take responsibility for my actions and get myself straightened out, my children’s behavior also improved. Focusing on “fixing” our children is often a way we ignore our own problematic behavior. 1:55
I’m so impressed by the emotional maturity and perspective of Shari. Just a note to the inner child of Shari: you don’t have to do or be anything different to please anyone anytime; you’re fine as is.
When my wife died, I thought (after a while) that my kids needed to be in therapy. My son spent *7* therapy sessions teaching his therapist the history of the Marvel Comic universe. When his therapist told me... I laughed and said "maybe he isn't going to open up"
I was there for him, and he found his way. He just needed Dad, and resented me passing off the responsibility.
I feel so sad for Chad
Beautifully done. Thank you all for being vulnerable and sharing your experience.
I didn’t realize how long this episode was until I was 2 hours in! I could have watched even longer! Great commentary. I appreciated the vulnerability that was shared by the panel. Shari is a truly remarkable woman. She is so young to already have this much awareness of the problems of her upbringing. I wish her nothing but the best in her future.
Just came back wanted to say.. WOW Megan today must have been a whirlwind (emotionally etc) and you are holding it DOWN! I am always so happy when I get the opportunity to hear you speak..your comfort in your own skin, vulnerability and compassion always shine through ❤️🩹💛
Thank you so much!
In Germany they have law against parents showning children on the net! We in Sweden are working to copy that. Here its not ok for any school daycarecenter, any concept that involves children
OK you got me. At an hour and a half in I sample read the first 6 chapters and have now downloaded the audiobook. I'll come back to the video after I finish the book. It is so wonderful that despite her experiences Shari is a kind, funny and expressive person who stands up for justice and human rights.
Great commentary. Mindy with her encyclopedic knowledge of the book on such short notice and page references was impressive
In a very small part i also see myself in Shari. The fawning as a response to the trauma of a dysfunctional family is something I'm trying to unlearn. I admire her strenght for sharing her story and i wish her and her siblings all the best for their future!
This is so important to talk about and discuss. I hope Shari's experience and emotions will be listened to and will reach parents who are brrought up to parent the same way❤
I just love the work the four of you do on behalf of humanity. You model the tenderness and empathy that we all need ALL the time. Thank you for covering the difficult topics with so much heart. The band needs to do more epic book book studies! Looking forward to the next one (hint, hint)!
MORE COLLABS!!! The FAB FOUR!!!! 4 hours is NOT LONG ENOUGH !!! Longer episodes!!!!! We love yall! Thank you for your vulnerability and tenderness when addressing these issues. ❤
This was a wonderful episode. Thank you so much for sharing so vulnerably. I wish I knew at 20 what I know now at 61 years old, but it never too late to learn to trust your instincts and love yourself. It is great that Shari shared her journey with us.
Love this quartet! Thank you for the deep dive! And this book sounds amazing! A really insightful telling of her own story! I'm very impressed with Shari!
I’m extremely happy I found your podcast! I learned so much about the Franke family and Jody. So glad it was uncovered!
Shari Franke, what an exceptional woman! Thank you Shari for your strength!
This was a fabulous episode. Great job to you all!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Does Shari address her relationship with Kevin in this book? He was so NASTY to her after Ruby got arrested. He tried to get Shari arrested for going with CPS to the house to pick up clothing and belongings for the little kids she was granted temporary custody of. She was graciously putting her own life on hold to raise Kevin and Ruby's children, and Kevin wanted Shari in jail. ANY sympathy I may have had for Kevin (and he really deserves none) was gone just from how he treated Shari. 😮
Kevin has no empathy, which is revealed by his porn use. He is a pervert and a creep. People should not give him a free pass.
Yes. She addresses this in the book.
@mormonstories Thank you for the reply. I am only 1/3 of the way through your program so far.
It is more about money for them rather than doing it as a missionary tool for the church. Greed.
Thank you all! Thank you, Shari!!! Praying for all of you🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Omg?! The video quality is CRISP! Idk what yall changed but keep it up! Looks great!
Just started watching American Primeval yesterday, couldn’t keep my eyes off of it and realized my high school teacher taught me about this specific time in history. My history teacher was an ex Mormon in Colorado. It was the apart of the beginning of my deconstruction in the church. He knew exactly what he was doing.
3:38:22 Can I get that on a t-shirt?
This was such an excellent roundtable. Thanks to everyone at MS for putting this together, and thanks to Lauren, Megan & Mindy for traveling & presenting on such short notice. I so appreciate the sharing of your personal experiences. Your opinions are valuable & important to me.
The conversations had in this episode are vital & need to be had publicly & repeatedly. My hope is that doing so will pierce the bubble. Mormon children deserve so much better, as does everyone else.
Shari’s book is the 1st first purchase on my new Audible subscription.
I grew up in a family deeply embedded in the belief system that underpins waldorf education (anthroposophy). I've known for decades it's extremely toxic and has cult-like overlaps, but it still shocks me how much the culture of emotional/psychological abuse and neglect described in mormonism is utterly familiar to me.
The description of SA, the cruelty of shari's parents manipulating her into paying for the meal where she'd hoped to find support, the groundwork laid by her narcissistic family culture that left her a prime target for a groomer and sexual predator - it's all stuff that's so familiar i feel momentarily unable to do anything but collapse and sleep.
Poor, poor kid. It's heartbreaking
I had never heard of this, thank you for sharing! I've only heard positive things about Waldorf schools but after reading more I'm glad to know the other side.
This was a hard episode to watch, but you were all spot on with your critique of life inside the Mormon bubble. I just want more people to understand what it is like to be raised in a Mormon family.
Thank goodness for this video. Here I was trying to process this book all on my own.
Tuning in from South Africa 🇿🇦 at breakfast time on the 11th. Looking forward to this read-party! 💜🤗
I’m never Mormon and I wanted to say that authoritative parenting is not only an LDS method of parenting. I was a child in the’60’s and my parents and others parented the same way. Let the baby cry itself to sleep was a common practice. I remember when my parents were babysitting their first grandchild. I was about 8 when my nephew cried so much, I was in bed crying for the baby. That emotion stuck with me all these years. I don’t blame parents though, because they were doing the best they knew. Many followed Dr. Spock’s book on raising children.
*Authoritative Parenting* is the same thing as *Gentle Parenting* or *Positive Parenting.* You’re thinking of _Authoritarian Parenting._
There are four types: Authoritative, Permissive, Authoritarian, and Neglectful.
Authoritative (Positive): are nurturing and instructive
Permissive (Indulgent): are nurturing but fail to instruct their children or hold them accountable
Authorization (Disciplinarian): are strict, inflexible, inflict harsh punishments, and expect complete subordination
Neglectful (Uninvolved): are neither nurturing nor disciplinary, offering little more than the basic necessities required for survival
I am here because of Lauren, the host is/was correct, she is wonderful and amazing. I learned a lot so far. I am just 45 minutes in and hope to catch up more later. I just ordered the book and hope to read it in the next few weeks. TY great presentation so far. I will like and subscribe.
SO COOL to see the Band together!! Watching on replay. ❤
Great podcast 👏👏👏 After reading the book, I would love you to talk more about Pam please. She’s as bad as Ruby and Jodie. I also would like a more in-depth discussion about the in-laws on each side of the family. And the Haymonds, only for them god knows what may have happened to Shari, they gave her the strength to fight and their support is outstanding.
If you’re reading this Shari, you are a wonderful young girl, you saved your siblings and one day you’ll be known for the good you’ve brought to this world and the changes you’ve brought to into law to keep children safer ❤🇮🇪
Great session, Team. Thank you!🙏
Wonderful, thoughtful episode. I love how you all keep bringing together threads of both mainstream and unofficial LDS beliefs in different cases and showing the resonances.
This is like the Mormon Stories Avengers reuniting again.
As a Kinsey 6 lesbian who grew up Southern Baptist, I think I'm not super surprised about the part about Ruby holding multiple people's hands at once while she was dating Kevin. Depending on what Ruby really has going on there... if she's gay, gay then what she was doing is just going through some motions she knew she was supposed to go through but with exactly none of the feelings a straight person would feel. If she really is gay, she (by definition) wasn't attracted to Kevin. She wasn't attracted to anyone she would've been allowed to pursue. But she was SUPPOSED to be attracted to SOMEONE. So, she just had to sort of mimic what she thought attraction should look like it as best she could. So, it comes out cold and weird because, well, it is. Imagine a situation where John HAD to marry some dude...any dude. And having to convince SOMEONE that he was totally romantically into them...what that would look and feel like. That's what Ruby was doing.
Bonnie talked about Ruby being different and it seeming like she was just mirroring other people's behavior. That happens when you're trying to mask your identity. You're made to be terrified of who you really are, but you're not wired to look and feel like everyone else so you just have to fake it and spend all your time monitoring if it's working.
Obviously lots of people go through that exact experience without, ya know, horrifically abusing their children or firing up a predatory, psychologically abusive cult. But it could explain some of Ruby's fakeness and weirdness and I ABSOLUTELY think it played into her religious obsessiveness. Because if you're gay and don't break out of these ultra homophobic religions at least mentally...if you're gay and you buy what they're selling... it WILL send you into this spiral of fear and self-hate and fear and hatred of people like yourself. And I think that was plastered all over that Connexions propaganda. And honestly, I think it's plastered all over right wing political culture war stuff right now. There was a standard the church set for her that she had zero hope of ever meeting ever no matter what she did and it made her angry and obsessive over it. She desperately wanted perfection and she might as well have been trying to pray hard enough to be 6 feet tall.
I have so many comments on this book, it healed me in ways I didn’t know I needed, I thank Shari for sharing her story, I recognize so much of my childhood and myself in this. That being said I feel as though the church originally denounced therapy because mental heath specialists recognize the control the church has over its members. And then they now have their own mental heath specialists to council their members and magically it’s okay and important.
I got it on audible and couldn't stop listening till it was over. It is awesome.She did such a good job
This was so good! You guys are true marathoners. The book is in my queue!
I didn’t know this book was written! So, I’ve just bought and read/listened to it. This is amazing. Now to watch with no spoilers.
What a great group of smart people and glad you’re covering this book. I put this in my audio book queue (read by author) yesterday. This channel’s in depth coverage of the Franke/Hildebrandt case (through long form, thoughtful interviews) is so helpful.
So heartbreaking what happened to Shari re D. I was not expecting that. First I’m glad there’s more understanding of the freeze response now. This a valid and not uncommon response. Megan, you mention how women blame themselves. I recently saw a doc re adult men s/a’d by a certain celebrity years ago. Tough guys. 30s. Ex military in some cases. That was part of the “thrill” for the s/a-er it seems. They routinely thought “what did I do to cause this” and felt shame. Amazing. Why do women and men have that bio-response? And then I think of very young people trying to work through this…
Extraordinary. Cannot believe I listened to the end. I’m glad I did. Meegan at the end really helped me understand narcism and how it develops. I spent 20 years in high demand religion led by my partner and I wondered how it seems his narcissism seemed to get worse. I wasn’t sure when and where it started and how blind was I from the beginning.
I had to drive almost 4 hrs today. I so enjoyed this podcast. (I finished it at my destination). Wow, what a book by Shari. I cried a lot for her.
All of you are awesome. Thank you!
Thanks for listening
The best panel! Thanks ladies and John! ❤❤❤❤
What a great panel. Thank you all.
Thanks!
This was amazing. Thank you so much for the in-depth discussion.
So so good to see the group back together again 💓
Love this panel! Thanks for the content!
This is amazing. Thank you all for an extraordinary podcast.
this was beautiful, respectful, and powerful. thank you for sharing. 🩷
Ruby actually had a steady boyfriend from age 15 until she finished high school. She made a video when Shari turned 16 talking about how proud she was she was doing things differently then she had as she had spent the evening of her own 16th birthday driving around with her steady boyfriend and kissing him. I’m a reformed shameful past viewer of 8 passengers. I grew up in an unstable home and the image the channel put off appealed to 18yo me and since my own mum was catholic and had a relatively strict parenting style, at least up until my mid teens anyway, so ruby’s style didn’t seem too out of the realm to me. Sure she was more strict than my own mum, but not by an unimaginable amount. By the end of my early 20’s I was having a very different view on the channel and stopped watching early 2020.
Thank you for sharing ❤️
Thank you for such a comprehensive, thoughtful and compassionate coverage of this book. Appreciate all the different lenses and perspectives the panel was able to bring because of their different backgrounds. You’ve managed to achieve the goal of exposing Jodi / connexions for the danger that it is, help identify the signposts and flags of manipulation and other cult like behavior, while managing to steer clear of a sensationalised and exploitative approach vis a vis the victims (the pitfall into which much true crime coverage falls) to a very complicated, heavy and disturbing story.
I’m so looking forward to this episode so many of my absolute FAVS ! ❤❤❤ Re Watch crew 🎉
This was class! Loved every minute ❤
Accolades to Shari for her courage, strength, wisdom and authenticity. All the caregivers and adults in her life failed her. Seemingly by her BYU affiliation, she has not yet realized the LDS faith has also failed her. Shari has a bright and promising future.
I love every one of these women - they are all inspirations! Let me just add that the last time y'all got together I almost cracked a rib laughing with John, who couldn't stop chuckling at one of Jody's videos (the word "hard" was mentioned many times). I will buy Shari's book after listening to today's discussion. I was so horrified by her account of SA and how she was treated by the church afterwards. I mean, I grew up in the church and already know how this sort of story goes, but hearing Shari's own story was so haunting and made me sick to my stomach. Someone expose the perpetrator, please. Justice for Shari!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔
So much similarity to my life under the Plymouth Brethren / Cslvsnist / Bob Jones / Bill Gothard / Dianetics etc dynamics that my father and stepmother were immersed in.
The 'Everything is good in public' rings loudly.
"Your Spirit just needs to be broken" was the 'go to' dictum.
When I was finally sent to secular counseling and it was suggested that my issues were understood to be linked to a dysfunctional family dynamic needing to be addressed.
The thought that my parents needed to be included in counseling, too, was dismissed, and that was that.
I was sent to BJA for handling.
So much to unpack here. Thank you so much.
Need to get the audio book if and when it is available.
After reading this book I am even more convinced that Ruby is an incredibly angry, belligerent woman who never liked being a parent and took it out on her children. I can’t imagine parenting the way Ruby did. I feel for Shari and her siblings the layers of trauma and betrayal they must have experienced in that family must be immense.
Very enlightening conversation. Loved her book. So well-written. And I loved the final chapter on narcissism.
Awesome panel. Absolutely loved it. Shari(edit) is an amazing strong women. I hope her and her family get to heal and I will definitely be buying the book.
Ooh great panel! I am looking forward to this one!
What a great show❤❤❤❤❤!!!!! Thank you Shari!!!!
John, Lauren, Megan and Mindy, thank you all for discussing this with maturity and insight. Many commentators have only had a shallow understanding of Ruby, without knowing much about the various external factors that influenced her. (Ultimately though it was her responsibility, thoughts and choices. Such a sad sad situation.)
All of these women are so spot on and impressive. Excellent discussion
I hope LDS leaders listen to this. The insidious pressure put on LDS people, particularly mothers, to be seen as perfect with perfect children, a perfect marriage, a perfect house, perfect church attendance and a perfect body is ridiculous. Something needs to change in the way we are taught to live our lives and just ‘be’. I feel sickened every time I see or hear this underlying message put to us by our leaders, especially to the youth. It’s no surprise why younger people 18-40ish (that’s young to me 😜) are leaving the church. The pressure and hypocrisy is too much!
Got this on Audible and finished it in about a day, amazing book, she did a great job and it heartbreaking
Kevin should also be held accountable 🤷🏻♀️
He should be in prison for neglect and abuse as well. Just my opinion.
Love these women! Great work by all!!
Shari’s first sexual encounter with Derick broke my heart. She was raped. There is no other way to honestly describe what happened to her. Her trauma was gut wrenching, particularly because she wasn’t capable of recognizing the experience as an assault that she was not responsible for. Then to have the added spiritual trauma of having her temple recommend removed as a result, essentially blaming her for what happened while her perpetrator received no punishment from the church.
Also, I think her temple recommend was removed to silence her. She was dependent on the bishop to restore her recommend which would make her very unlikely to speak publicly about the assaults. This makes it doubly brave of her to speak up about this in her book.
who is derek?
I was waiting for you to cover Shari's book! Thank you for this great discussion!
I started following the Griffiths grandparents during Covid and loved them. I just learned a month ago the connection with the Griffiths family and that Ruby was their daughter😅. I can’t imagine the struggle they are all going through. Thank you for sharing your take on all of this. Each of you have brought a prospective to what Shari was going through. It all overwhelms me. I am a never Mormon. Your words have shown a different light. I will purchase the novel.
There is so much to be learned from this book. I can't even imagine the level of courage it took to release it. I personally am apart of an organization that are online decoys that pose as underage kids and online preds reach out to us. Long story short, we always involve police. Shari describing her interactions with that man happens more often than people realize. As a decoy, we get told those same things on a daily basis. All in hopes that in these predator's minds, they can gain more and more control. It's crazy to me still how these people can find those who are lost in life almost like a heat seeking missle. I have to give her huge props for sharing such an awful time in her life and I hope that it helps people see the different signs of abuse. I'm excited to see what her future holds.
Can't wait to listen, excellent group of humans ❤❤❤
Scientific studies show that when someone is filming they are detached from what is going on in front of the lens. It applies to cameras recording crimes in process without stepping in to help a victim.
What particularly shocked me about Ruby's way of raising children was the stark consistency with a parenting guide from 1936 in Germany Johanna Haarer: "Die deutsche Mutter und ihr erstes Kind"The german mother and her first child. The aim of this book was to educate children to become obedient and strong citizens of Nazi Germany, that is, Hitler’s soldiers and mothers who were keen to give birth to as many babies as possible. I know this is an uncomfortable thesis, but I see similarities of a totalitarian inhumane system to these religious requirements. Personal feelings were not welcome, only the big, fantastic whole mattered. By the way, Johanna Haarer`s book was officially available for purchase until 1986, how creepy. In the meantime, several studies have proven that J. Haarer was an extremely narcissistic mother, brutal and without any connection to her children. One reason: "Leave the child alone for 24 hours after birth so that no monkey-like dependency develops".
I love to listen your podcast, greetings from Germany
As a German I had never heard about Johanna Haarer. I guess neither did Ruby, but narcissism is universal in time and space as it seems.
I watched 8 Passengers, E&J, Bonnie, and Jennifer (Chad) Griffith vlogs, as well as followed them on Instagram. After Ruby was arrested, I began to reflect on the similar underlying tone of Bonnie & their mother's vlogs. It made me feel like Ruby's upbringing mirrored her own childrearing. Ruby's style of discipline (abuse) was learned, she experienced what she inflicted on her kids. Bonnie's own vlogs also touched on the, "spoil the rod" approach to discipline. Although since Ruby's incarceration Bonnie has rolled back on that what she showed on her vlog. I often felt like Bonnie's eldest child, Olivia would similarly have her own realization as her cousin Shari. I truly hope that the Griffith, Mecham, Hollein, and Deru (Shari's maternal family) will read the book with an open mind, and heart. As I say this the only one I feel that will be genuine will be her aunt Julie, only bc right b4 the Deru's moved the were very present in Shari's life as a safe landing spot during her chaos.
I’m the same as you in following all the family. I met them all at a meet up. The only one I didn’t care for was Jared’s father. I even talked to Ruby and felt that she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She said she wasn’t handling the negativity given her children in the comments by the trolls.
I have followed Lauren Mathias, who is awesome. I know Mindy’s aunt who is my high school classmate. Another classmate is an Uncle to Julie’s husband, the Deru’s. It’s a small world.
The "dream team" panel!! Excellent show.
I love listening to you girls (I'm 64), you are so reflective and emotional.
Such a harrowing story, I commend Shari's bravery and will be getting the book
Amazing discussion! Thank you! Also, I wish Daniella Mestyanek Young had been a part of this conversation too.
I love that Lauren is honest about regretting not having kids earlier. I do too.