Not every race has a Reverend Mother, and most that do are part of the Bene Gesserit. On Dune BGs were there early on to spread the prophecies, those were members of the Missionaria Protectiva. On Dune, with all the spice available, the Fremen created their own Rev Mothers, 'wild' ones as the original order considered them.
You guys get that Paul gaslit and entire civilization just to kill his father then set a holy crusade in motion that will kill billions of people right? The main message of Dune is that the "story of the messiah" of a savior coming to rescue a population is a tool used by politicians to control their people and use them as tools of violence. The Fremen aren't burning bodies at the end of Dune because they don't need the water, they are doing it because Paul has changed their culture so drastically. The opening monologue of the first Dune Chani says "Who will our next oppressors be?" then it cuts to Paul sleeping and we watch his rise to power. He literally says after he takes the water of life "We are Harkonnen...we will survive by being Harkonnen." The Fremen have traded one Harkonnen for another prettier one with nice hair. What kind of ruler will Paul be? What comes after the jihad? He was willing to sacrifice thousands of fremen not to mention the billions more who will die in the coming war (which he knows is going to happen because he can see the future), so when this guy actually gets power is he going to be some one you should trust with it?
They don't show it in the movie, but Fremen Stietches have factories in them where they manufacture Stillsuits, Thumpers, and all the other equipment they utilize. They're not a primitive people, they have advanced technology just like the rest of the universe.
@@deek60819 Yeah, there are some people who try to make reproductions of Stillsuits, but how they make their stuff is a very closely guarded secret among the Fremen and so nobody can match them.
and they've been paying of providers of spy sattelites over Arrakis, to hide their sietches, that's why the harkonnens misjudged thir numbers so badly, they have Ornithopters as well
@@deek60819i mean you don’t need stillsuits in any other place and since they are the real “owners” fof arrakis is kinda obvious they would have the best of it.
I had read that Herbert was disappointed his message wasn't clearer with the first Dune book so he went hard with the message in Messiah to make sure it was clear. And obviously, as you said, Villeneuve tried to make it clearer here and it's still evading so many people. The Normies weren't as bad as some reactions I've seen but I'm not sure I've watched one yet that truly understood how tragic the story is.
@@bicranium7198 Frank Herbert went for subtlety in the first Dune and very much wanted the reader to read between the lines. Villeneuve did make it clearer but he still kept it relativity subtle. Its not a good thing when a major story element goes over people's heads but Dune is a breath of fresh air compared to today's entertainment being so ham-fisted and with the writers constantly screaming at the audience.
The problem to some degree is Herbert also did make the story effectively true. Like as far as we are concerened in terms of the Kwisatz being able to see the future Paul only has a single path that realistically leads to eventual everlasting peace. He doesn't want to do it but his only options is to sacrifice his own sanity and morals to save humanity or to selfisly reject it and run away which will doom humanity and cause more deaths anyway. The only conculsion one can come to based on Herberts own words is even though it's the least shit path the price paid is still not worth it. It's better to doom humanity than to save it at the cost of billions. It honestly confuses itself slightly in that way.
The screen presence from Timmy on that speech scene was one of the most captivating thing to happen to me in recent memory. This guy is definitely going places!!!
For real, I wanted to holler Lisan Al-Gaib but I think they would have called security. I am way too brown to be yelling in weird shit in public spaces.
One sacred rule in writing is "show don't tell", "don't insult the audience", "the audience is not stupid", but what I've found is that some people need to be told the message to their faces otherwise it will fly over their heads.
Yeah, I do think there was needed a sequence at the end showing Paul attacking the other houses, commiting horrible acts and bringing death and horror, sometimes is needed to be a little more explicit. Maybe they'll show that in the next movie
i mean they didnt show the innocent people of the imperium. all they showed were the opps being evil. sure the visions said he would do "terrible things" and bring about a "great war" but as far as we know, this is just another "black and white good vs evil story" like starwars.
Yeah, the best movies show people enough that smart/attentive people can figure it out through observation, but also eventually make it super clear for everyone else. It is unbelievably hard to get through to 80+ percent of people without spelling things out.
Paul was a Mentat, Bene Gesserit, Fremen, Atreides, and Harkonnen. Technically a Reverend Mother and a "Reverend Father". Because by being male, he had access not only to the entire female lineage, but also the male lineage. It's absurd how many storylines had to come together for him to exist.
@@perrymanso6841 No it gives you every person in your lineage BG or otherwise, it's just that only BG women have ever survived the water of life, until Paul.
I thought that Messiah was too blunt with its message, but now I see why it was needed. Some people can't grasp a point unless it's EXPLICITLY spelled out to them.
@@ninjatoriumnova2483 it's not about "dumbing it down", it's about not providing any alternative. How are the viewers supposed to be against Paul when all they've seen are comically evil Harkonnen?
The Harkonnen home world of Giedi Prime orbits a black sun which makes everything look black and white. There's a really cool transition between the inside artificial light, which allows the eyes to see color, to the black and white outside. The lack of color makes Geidi Prime look like it has no hope and no individualism. The Harkonnen society evolved with that black sun to have a black and white mentality which explains why many of them, if not all, are psychotic. Even fireworks, which are supposed to give people joy, looks like an oily, inky oppressive thing.
Geidi Prime is a highly industrialized planet in the Imperium. Most of the natural beauty there: Flora, Fauna, etc. has likely been choked off, removed. Or probably perished because of their black sun
Interesting thing is that that Geidi Prime footage was not shot with a black and white camera. But with a Alexa LF, modified so it could only see infrared and not any visible light. so it is infrared spectrum footage not black and white footage.
@@CatCubed It gave the prop department a lot of extra work when the choice to shoot infrared was made. Denis Villeneuve wanted clothing to show up as black and this meant they had to change a lot of the materials originally used.
@@comancostin4623 agreed thats what i felt too.. i think everyone in that room thought paul was going to get killed near the end of the fight so this was his way to cover it for him
@@SilverEye91Paul isn't a villain. FH's warning about charismatic leaders more applies to followers and their escalation of force than the leader himself. In the book Paul desperately wanted to prevent the jihad, and only gave into it when his infant son was killed in a sardaukar raid. By the time he marches into the Emperor's throne room, Paul realizes that there's no way to stop the jihad. The best he can do is attempt to direct it. It slips from his hands, and by the second book Paul is a shell of his former self.
i mean its hard to care about the rest of the imperium when weve literally seen none of it except for harkens and scheming emperor. blame the lack of world building.
I watched this in IMAX. One of the last showings in my area. It was quite the experience, and having read the book, i was beyond pleasantly surprised how Villeneuve was able to provide such an epic interpretation of this sci fi masterpiece.
The goal of the Bene Gesserit is to produce an omniscient being called the kwisatz haderach in which they can fully control to ensure that the future is always in their hands.
Fremen aren't less advanced than other civilizations out there. They just aren't space faring and are more specialised for the desert. Otherwise all their technology is on par with what others have.
It’s interesting what’s considered primitive. The fremen are shown to have superior tactics and still suits but are seen as lesser for lacking any space faring vessels
@@darrylguerrant5101 and yet the sieches of the fremen are factories, water collectors, and armories. They are more like strongholds than decorated caves. They have industrial infrastructure, but don’t really need anything more than that
12:32 in the book a core pillar of the fremen belief is actually terraforming, they persue it religiously not just by saving water, they are actually preparing, introducing certain plants to stabalise the sand then other plants to do something else basically, what's actually being done currently to stop desertification in certain regions on earth.
In the books the Kynes family taps in to the Bene Gesserit's seeded mythology among the Fremen to make terreforming an objective of religious significance because their plan will take 500 generations and religion is the only way to ensure that the goal is passed down into deep time.
For the prophecy, remember that the Bene Gesserit know *roughly* what is required to make the Kwisatz Haderach. As such they can incorporate it into their prophecies so that, wherever he arises, he will be welcomed and embraced as a messiah. In particular he'll need something like the Reverend Mother creation process. In the case of Arrakis, that means taking the water of life and then to take a diluted form of it (a small amount mixed with other liquid, namely Chani's tears) to come out of his trance. Add in whatever ways the prophecy shifts to match local culture and you get something that Paul can match even while not intending to (and he openly intends to at various points). In short they created a situation wherein their messiah would become a local messiah and have a powerbase *by default*, a thing Paul and Jessica knew, used, and manipulated with varying degrees of regret.
Thank you that's what I've been saying. They created a prophecy that they could easily fulfill. What people say is the prophecy came true. Of course it did it was designed to. And it was vaguely worded so that had Paul drank from a spring in the desert, it would have come true. The Lisan al-Gaib would be born in the South. Paul wasn't but he was reborn there after drinking the water of life. You can twist a vaguely worded sentence to mean almost anything. That's how this scam works
wrong the prophecy of the lisan al giab is organic in creation, the BG do not know about the water of life so they coudln't have created that part of the faith
47:16 The prophecy for "The One" (Kwisatch Haderach) IS real, the bene gesserit spread the prophecy into different variants on different planets (Lisan Al Gaib on Arrakis). The Bene Geserit planted the prophecy on different planets in case that "The One" would end up being birthed an whatever planet. This is told in Dune part 1
@@N3xtStopHell Yes. They are both separate things. The real kicker, is that both are Paul, and his choice between the two will decide the fate of humanity going forward; to either enslave humanity under the Kwisatch Haderach, or plunge humanity into a holy war as the Lisan Al Gaib. Either way, it is essentially two prophecies of two separate villains, and either one can be true, or false, depending on the choices Paul makes.
That beginning, when the Harkonnen soldiers just RISE up into the air, that was when I knew this was going to be phenomenal. Edit: Oh, and this, along with the first Dune movie and Lawrence of Arabia should set the benchmark for how to film in the desert.
Correct, and this is an important point. The Houses all adhere to something called the Great Convention which absolutely forbids the use of nuclear weapons against human beings. All Houses are mutually pledged to destroy a House that violates the ban. Paul skirts the problem by using the Atreides family atomics to destroy the massive rock Shield Wall that surrounds and protects Arrakeen. This both allows the huge sandstorm to enter the basin (disrupting the shield on the Emperor's ship) and the sandworms to follow carrying the Fremen warriors. In the novel, after the Fremen defeat the Sardaukar, the Emperor accuses Paul of violating the Great Convention. However Paul dismisses the accusation by saying he only used the family atomics against a natural feature of the desert. ""It was in my way and I was in a hurry to get to you, Majesty."
@@MongooseTales very cool. I didn’t read the book. That’s a cool extra nuggets I didn’t know. I wonder in the movie didn’t the bomb did kill some saudakar? Like the huge amount of rocks trampled some of the soldiers. It’s that still considered adhering to the great convention?
@@zoneVgroup 7 months late to reply but the movie did not expound a lot of the finer details so it could be considered irrelevant as to movie lore. Book lore wise I think he can still get a pass since any rock that kills any Sardaukar can be considered fair game since technically they are at war. Also at that point in time the Spacing Guild (another detail the movie is lacking) would not allow Arrakis to be brought under nuclear holocaust since that was the only known source of the Spice Melange.
@ I didn’t read the book. I just thought since the last movie they say the worm couldn’t get in cause it’s surrounded by mountains. My first thought is the Nuke was used to let the worm in and to show they have nuke. Your probably are right. I didn’t read the book.
Water is so important, showing them burn the bodies is a way of showing that they’ve already begun to lose their way under the fanaticism to the Lisan Al Gaib.
Actually that isn't true. That water from the burning bodies turns into a vapor and that vapor goes into the atmosphere and can be collected later in time. The same water that you drink is at least 4.5 billion years old.
Javier Bardem surprised me the most in this movie. Didn't expect his to be my favorite performance alongside Chalamet's. (and soon after opening weekend becoming a meme) Stilgar gradually goes from funny and endearing to unsettling. See it in IMAX. I think this film is the first ever to be shot entirely in IMAX I could be wrong though. See it in IMAX. Treat yo selves.
The black and white was to show the limited spectrum of the black sun of Giedi Prime. Fremen tents and sietches have moisture seals and water reclamation so it’s not an issue to lose bodily fluids while in them. The first movie shows Paul and Jessica drinking reclaimed moisture from a tent.
Also in Dune book lore, the Fremen are covered more in their heads than the hoods used in the film (understandble so the audience can differentiate characters).
yeah i only ever saw the trailer for elvis and was like "oh great another talentless pretty boy hollywood is trying to cook up"... and when i saw this i was like "oh damn my guy is terrifying, this dude can act his ass off"
@@jimtamsTbf, the guy was in a Quentin Tarantino and Jim Jarmusch movie in the same year. That's not exactly the kind of thing that happens out of nowhere. 😂
It amazes me every time. Paul drinks the water and his visions bring him to a space in time where his sister is roughly his age, she's on Dune, There's an ocean of water in front of them... ON DUNE!!! Not a single person ever mentions it. These movies flash by at break neck speeds
I like it it’s seeing a take that’s both the same and different it’s a book about politics and religion there’s no way the events weren’t gonna be subjective if the ending isn’t
Just for the record, Duncan Idaho was Paul's primary swords master (He was literally Sword Master for House Atreides). Gurney Halleck only trained Paul in the first movie because Idaho was already on Arrakis.
Stilgar yelling “Lisan-al gaib” after Paul wins the duel has the same energy as Michael in The Office when he can’t stop himself from saying “That’s what she said!”
I feel like Christopher Walken was cast as the Emperor as a reference to the Fatboy Slim music video where they quote "walk without rhythm and you won't attract the worm" lol
@@LucasPNunes-y8qYou probably watched an edit someone made when he was playing a different character but imposed into the original dunes’ scenes, i dont blame you it was well done but evidently a joke.
Regarding the Fremen’s reverence of water… in a sexual context… Fremen men are taught how to reach orgasm without ejaculating. Yes, this is legitimate Dune lore. :)
The fremen are the ultimate no nut November gods. I remember when I was a horny religious teen I wanted to learn how to do that to get through a loophole in gods rules…. Lmao.
The Lisan Al-Gaib is a legend planted by the Bene Gesserit. It's a common prophet story. Meanwhile the Kwisatz Haderach is the end goal of the Bene Gesserit breeding program (a male with all the powers of the sisterhood, the ultimate power), the point was for the Bene Gesserit to attain supreme power by controlling a prescient emperor. Two entirely different things.
@@Aemond2028 Paul was one generation too early. He was unexpected and more importantly, the BG cannot control him especially after he went to exile within the Fremen. In the book Paul went to live with the Fremen for 2 years. Ironically Kwisatz Haderach also means "shortening of the way" and the BG should have planned for the KH to be born 1 generation early. But they were to blinded, even the Reverend Mother Mohiam to acknowledge that Paul could have been the KH especially when Paul was way too resilient during the Gom Jabbar test.
As long as Paul is alive his house lives. Chani is watching Paul's descent into a warlord, it seems inevitable. Both Paul and the Fremen are cornered into a fight for their own survival because other powerful people want to make money and stay on top. Being nice and diplomatic cost Paul's dad his life, once he knew he was targeted, he should have prepared for war.
They sped up time in the movie. In the book Paul and Jessica where with the Fremen for 3yrs before the Emperor came to Dune and his sister is a wierd little toddler that's also a Reverend Mother
I read a comment from somewhere where they said in the books or some other source that Paul's mother talked to Chani about how sometimes the women the emperors marry don't ever feel the warmth of their husbands but "us" concubines are referred to as wives or something along those lines. After seeing Dune Prophecy I finally understood that statement
"I would very much like to be equal to you." And by the end only Chani who consider Paul as their equal, as she is the only one standing while everyone else raises Paul above them.
Timothee Chalamet in the scene where he is speaking to the Fremen is one of the best acting performances I've seen in recent years. His voice, inflection, and physical demeanor demands the audience's attention, I was absolutely engulfed in that scene. It was the first movie I had seen in theaters in a while and I was not disappointed in the slightest. Truly an amazing performance.
@@pl9462 Nope, never read the books or watched the previous films. This movie is very obvious with its messaging. Not obvious enough, though, it seems.
Seeing this in IMAX, the sand worms made my goddamn seat SHAKE with how loud it got. But damn, Javier Bardem and Austin Butler were scary good in this film.
Butler killed it as Feyd Rautha; pacing, acting, visuals, this movie succeeded on so many levels. It also addressed my chief critique of the books with Paul killing the Baron instead of Alia.
The worm riding feels real because it is "real". They made a platform that looks like that and shot a massive of sand at it and at the stuntman on it. When it feels like he's getting blown away is because they placed the platform vertically with the camera on it. The scene where he jumps in the gap made by the worm is also made without CGI.
Some non-spoiler context that was cut for time 1. The bene geserit are actually only one of three major "powered" people, there's also the Mentats (human computers, don't worry about them) and the Spacing Guild. The Spacing Guild control *all* interstellar travel and communication and are dependent on the spice, this is why paul's threat to destroy the spice protects him and Arrakis from attack, the Spacing Guild can't risk pissing him off so they are now beholden to him. 2. You can't use atomics against people in the Dune universe, here he used it against a natural feature of the desert which is a grey area that he exploited 3. When Paul said he will always love Channi, that means that he won't love or truly be with Irulan, in the book he told Channi she would be the royal concubine, but Jessica's words to here are more important "History will remember us as wives" 4. Paul was distressed at how Stilgar went from a friend to a fanatic 5. This all happens WAY faster here than in the book, Jessica had already given birth to Paul's sister by this point. In fact, in one of the funniest dark moments I've read, she as a two year old was running around the palace killing wounded Sardukar.
The Harkonnen world (Gildi Prime) has a black sun, which is why all the colors are washed out, and everything outside appears black and white. Notice inside there is more color.
32:15 one of the guard/officers for House Atreides-- credited as LT. Lanville( Roger Yuan)--seen in their first landing on Arakkis-- you also see him wearing the signature uniform hat and commanding the Atreides’ defense forces at the front gate; he’s the one that yells “Atreides!”, in the deep voice as a rallying command to the other house defenders. Those were the Atreides soldiers that formed that single line of defense on the stairs to fight the Harkonnen soldiers, while the Sardaukar dropped in from behind them. In the books he has no name, when introduced in arena battle, but did have the Atreides House Bird crest tattoo on his body; in the film it’s on his wrist, in the book, it’s over his chest. 😮
I assume they did what they did with Chani at the end to set up a kind of cliffhanger for a possible 3rd movie (Dune: Messiah), but that's not how things played out with her at the end of the book. After killing Feyd-Rautha, Paul did indeed subjugate the emperor and claim his daughter's hand in marriage to legitimize his ascendency, but Chani was right by his side. And Paul made it very, very clear that the princess would lead a barren, isolated life, as he would never touch her. Chani would officially be called concubine, but in every way that mattered she was his wife, his only love, and the mother of his children. Chani wasn't done wrong in any way. In the book, she knew exactly what was going to happen and why, and she stood by Paul through it all.
the average individual who hasn't read the books wouldn't walk out of this movie with the interpretation the author intended and that's fine. I'm sure the third installment will make it clearer for the audience when it's eventually released.
That just sounds like you judging the reaction with the hindsight of knowing what happens next. Everything Paul does in this movie is heroic and quite righteous. Yes, people will cheer for him!
@@hirvale no it is not lol. He is literally enslaving those people and taking them to commit genocide. Nothing he does in this movie is heroic lol. Dude missed the whole point of Herbert's story
@@LauraGS564the books are much more clear about how Paul’s religion is taking over these people but it’s not as easy to see in the movie. like multiple quotes from the book say how Stilgar goes from a friend to a follower. you don’t get that in the movie.
I was really sad at what happened to stilgar. He is such a strong, charismatic leader himself, but in his fanatism he looses all individuality, just raving on and on about his saviour. I also thought that in his epic speech in the south, Paul just states things to the Fremen they all know already. Yes, he kinda reads this guys mind, but its so easy to plant one or two people in the crowd to fake this scene or just learning a thing or two about one of the leaders. It could all be a grift. Also notice how Paul went from we are all Fremen, we are are equal to "I AM THE DUKE of Arrakis" real fast. And then from "we are making Arrakis a paradise" to "go on a galactic Gihad for me".
i think paul is using his prescience to read into the minds of people... he looks at a possible future where he has a conversation with those people to get information about them, even though that potential future never happens... same as his convos with jamis in the first movie
The water they keep from the dead one day they'll use that water put it back into arrakis n terraform the planet. Paul starts the terror forming process n by the 3rd novel children of dune people drown from floods n by book 4 artakis is a paradise planet again so Paul does start it but it will be devasting later on.
Agreed, stilgar is probably one of the best fighters in the universe. A badass in every sense of the word, he was an almost a fatherly figure for Paul, but fate turned him into a fanatic groveling at Paul’s feet.
I understand that because they had Chani not stand with Paul that they couldn't use the final quote in the book, but Jessica saying "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives." is such a bad ass quote
The Fremen reverend mother is a byproduct of the Bene Dessert's Missionaria Protectiva, spreading propaganda throughout the centuries. Even though she's not an actual Bene Dessert sister, she developed parts of their skills
There's some scene is unclear for everyone so here's the break down: 1/ Why the Worms let Fremens drove on their back while they can just dive back into the sand and it's done, problem solve ?? => Actually, these Worms are like Whales, they still need air to breaths !! You can actually see their "Breathing holes" under the skin when Paul pulling it skin up !! If too much sand go through that hole, the Worm will actually get suffocated !! So it's not they don't dive back to the sand, it's because they CAN'T do that !! 2/ Why the nun who raising little Worm put it down the water and it's just die ? Can it hold it's breath ??? => Well.. actually to the Worms, WATER is poison ! They are Silicon-based organic, meaning they don't rely on water ! Like how we don't rely on Methanol and Methanol is poison to us while science have proved that Methanol can actually support life like how Oxygen did on our planet ! If we are Carbon-based organic, somewhere in the Universe might have a Methanol-based organic. Then these Worms were Silicon-based organic !! So that scene where the nun drown a baby Worm in water, it's more like she put it in a pool of poisons !! Still, i'm sure you will then asking "Why the Worm's blood is liquid then? Does they afraid of water?" ! To answer that: Water is not the only matters that can exist in liquid form !! We also have Mercury, a METAL that exist in liquid form !! So the Worm's blood is likely liquify Silicon !!
the fact that whoever edited this cut out most of the "my name is paul Muad'Dib Atreides, duke of Arrakis" should be criminal, that scene is so damn powerful
@@LauraGS564 They changed more than one detail of the story, it's dumb to not admit that. Including Chani, she supported Paul in the original. But in this version she's the voice of reason, which makes her more interesting, but more importantly, more clearly communicates to the audience the idea of Paul not being a hero and his path not being "good". But that's too much for modern viewers, like The Normies. YAAAY LISAN AL GAIB!!!1111 HAPPY ENDING BABEH!11
The issue with the message of Dune is that Frank Herbert wanted to say "charismatic leaders are inherently dangerous because of the uncritical loyalty we give to 'great men of history.'" However, for that to be your message, you can't have your lead character be a straightforwardly evil person. Because the point isn't that Paul specifically is bad, but that nobody should ever end up in Paul's position to begin with. Plenty of people are going to miss that nuanced point because Paul is depicted sympathetically and does not undergo any kind of heel turn. But he DOES start a space war that viewers won't see the implications of until Part 3
@@LauraGS564 Basically they made Chani an atheist so that the "chosen ones might be bad, actually" subtext could be voiced for the audience. But for many reasons, a lot of people aren't going to have that takeaway of the story ... and I think some viewers might actually feel a little betrayed by how Dune Messiah depicts the fallout of Paul's actions in Dune Part 2
The first and second Movie were both adopting the first book "Dune", the third movie will be adopting the second book called "Messiah" . Children of Dune is the third book and will probably not be adapted.
Is he really Palpatine though? In the end he is merciless and ruthless, but the golden path is something to be achieved through this. Palpatine was no martyr, no self made villain for humanity to overcome and outgrow. I don't think that comparison is apt.
@iantha999 The entire creation of the kwisatz haderach was a colossal mistake on the part of the bene gesserit. That Leto 2 cleaned up their mess doesn't mean the 3000 years of tyranny and oppression he put the galaxy thru was justified. The ends do not justify the means. Every life crushed under the boot of Letos regime was a human being with dreams of their own. They were not statistics, no person is.
@@iantha999 I haven't read the new post sequel SW lore, but in the EU, they pushed the idea that Palpatine was preparing the Galaxy for the arrival of the Vuuzhan Vong(is that the spelling?). So he was doing the right thing the worst way.
@@iantha999 It depends, whether you believe the ends justify the means or not. I think anyone who behaves Leto II did is a monster, regardless of what the outcome is. Being the cause for misery, suffering, and death on a galactic scale, then saying "but muh reasons" is EXACTLY what you'd expect a villain to proclaim.
The last Atredies in the Arena is Landville. A General of the Atredies. He’s the one who said “Shields!” Before the ship opened its doors for the first time on Arrakis and he’s also the one who says “Stop right there!” To Stilgar when he visits Duke Leto in part one. The actor is also the fight choreographer for the movies.
I have a hypothesis that the voice at the beginning of each film is the voice of the God Emperor retelling the story as he sees it in his visions and genetic memory.
The one thing that gets lost is the goal of the Bene Gesserit. Princess Irulan is Bene Gesserit. Paul becomes Emporer and Irulan the Empress. All of their machinations end with a Bene Gesserit on the throne.
@32:10 It's actually (1) the commander, briefly seen leading the first defensive assault in the palace hall against the Harkonnen in part one... and (2) the movie's stunt coordinator. (And 3, he is also a bodyguard in 007: "Skyfall.")
19:28 The mostly quiet shot of them running and the music cutting in when the debris lands was so satisfying to me, I had to rewind it. There are so many top tier shots in this movie but that little detail made that scene stand out to me more than it would have without it
@@boiboiboi1419 f*ck off you assh0l3,i give your answer and you accuse me of knowing nothing,maybe you should do yourself a favor and actually read a book for once
Watching Paul become this dark Theocrat is terrifying. I know people are up in arms about him being destined and love watching him win, but I'd like to remind you that we've got no hard proof he's really destined for anything. He's gotten strong feats due to his power and resources but he's not a god. Watching the Freman bend to him warns of the moment where their messiah turns out to be just a man. It's a colonizers story. It never ends well.
I get why people are complaining about these guys not getting it. But I do think there is an underlying issue where the enemies Paul is opposing are so terrible its hard not to take his side. That and he basically has a choice between becoming this horrible emperor/savior who brings mass death or allowing his adopted people to be under the boot heel of an oppressive regime.
I have one problem with the desert heat and the still suits. In the first movie they said day time temperatures could CR each 140 F. You had to wear protective clothing, cover your skin, or stay indoors. Suddenly, the heat doesn’t matter. Put on a stillsuit and you do not even need to cover your skin.
Questions for the book readers: How do you get a palanquin onto a worm that hasn't been shown to stop moving? How does anyone disembark a worm once on board? I imagine the sands around the worm are liquidated for 100's of metres, so jumping off would be a sure death sentence. How do they steer the worms? I know holding up the flaps prevents the worm from going underground. Does lifting the left or right side of the flap act as a steering wheel? The only way I can think of getting off a worm would be to kill it or knock it unconscious by forcing it into a rock or mountain side.
worms get tired after long enough distances to the point that they just stop and i have no idea how they get stuff on the worm without just throwing it on
From what I know, the first two films adapt Dune. The second book is called Dune: Messiah. Which will most likely be adapted in Dune Part 3. The third one is Children of Dune (like Micky said), then God Emperor of Dune, and then Heretics of Dune.
No, the prophecy is not "real"! That's the whole point, Frank Herbert was already sick of the chosen one trope and showcased how the prophecy was carefully engineered by the Bene Gesserit and how they wanted to choose a puppet/figurehead!
It’s both… especially since Frank has Paul and then Leto II obtain near perfect prescience… it’s not so much that it’s fake, it’s that the “real” is attributed to the divine, while in fact, it’s man that becomes so advanced that through evolution and mathematical analysis, the spice and the water of life(and in Leto II ‘s case, fusing with the worms themselves) they are able to see outcomes and chose the right one for themselves… the fake part is that the Bene Gesserit, Paul, Jessica and eventually Alia Atreides, make the Fremen believe that it’s their God that has set up the very real power the Bene Gesserit had cultivated over centuries of genetic and scientific practice and evolution. Meanwhile the Bene Gesserit make their own created prophecy real… because remember the Kwisatz Haderach was always meant to be the messiah of many worlds, including on Arrakis, through the religion spread for centuries, by the wild Reverend Mothers-- and also it’s a type of prophecy/scientific theory, which the Bene Gesserit believe in, and do everything to bring it about. Frank Herbert’s other argument in the books is that there IS truth to all of these religions, practices, beliefs and prophecies-- BUT despite there being truth, that single or few facets of truth, does not make the general belief, and dogma truth, nor true enough to warrant such mindless adherence, that causes rationally thinking ppl to dismiss all doubt, and to throw themselves fully into any belief system that has such holes of doubt; especially, the biggest red flag to believing in anything in such a devote way , is whenever there is a sole Messianic/charismatic figure at the heart of it.
There were things outside of the bene gesserit control that happened to validate the prophecy though. Which makes it a gray area. Did a Reverend mother have a vision of the things Paul did in the future and add it, therefore Paul is fulfilling the prophecy because he's why it was written that way in the first place? Is it all luck? There are ways to invalidate it like a conspiracy but also odd coincidences. In the end it doesn't matter if it was real, Paul and his mother made it "real".
I wish they hadn't eliminated Thufir from the second part, just so we could see him apologize to Lady Jessica and then give his life for Leto's memory.
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The next book is called Dune Messiah
Not every race has a Reverend Mother, and most that do are part of the Bene Gesserit. On Dune BGs were there early on to spread the prophecies, those were members of the Missionaria Protectiva. On Dune, with all the spice available, the Fremen created their own Rev Mothers, 'wild' ones as the original order considered them.
You guys get that Paul gaslit and entire civilization just to kill his father then set a holy crusade in motion that will kill billions of people right? The main message of Dune is that the "story of the messiah" of a savior coming to rescue a population is a tool used by politicians to control their people and use them as tools of violence.
The Fremen aren't burning bodies at the end of Dune because they don't need the water, they are doing it because Paul has changed their culture so drastically. The opening monologue of the first Dune Chani says "Who will our next oppressors be?" then it cuts to Paul sleeping and we watch his rise to power. He literally says after he takes the water of life "We are Harkonnen...we will survive by being Harkonnen." The Fremen have traded one Harkonnen for another prettier one with nice hair. What kind of ruler will Paul be? What comes after the jihad? He was willing to sacrifice thousands of fremen not to mention the billions more who will die in the coming war (which he knows is going to happen because he can see the future), so when this guy actually gets power is he going to be some one you should trust with it?
They don't show it in the movie, but Fremen Stietches have factories in them where they manufacture Stillsuits, Thumpers, and all the other equipment they utilize. They're not a primitive people, they have advanced technology just like the rest of the universe.
the technology is MORE advanced in many cases. They have the best stillsuits in the imperium
@@deek60819 Yeah, there are some people who try to make reproductions of Stillsuits, but how they make their stuff is a very closely guarded secret among the Fremen and so nobody can match them.
and they've been paying of providers of spy sattelites over Arrakis, to hide their sietches, that's why the harkonnens misjudged thir numbers so badly, they have Ornithopters as well
@@deek60819i mean you don’t need stillsuits in any other place and since they are the real “owners” fof arrakis is kinda obvious they would have the best of it.
Technically they are 'primitive'. They are only 'advanced' in the tech they need to survive, nothing else.
Herbert wrote Paul's story as a cautionary tale on against surrendering to charismatic leaders. Villeneuve tried to make that clearer.
I had read that Herbert was disappointed his message wasn't clearer with the first Dune book so he went hard with the message in Messiah to make sure it was clear. And obviously, as you said, Villeneuve tried to make it clearer here and it's still evading so many people. The Normies weren't as bad as some reactions I've seen but I'm not sure I've watched one yet that truly understood how tragic the story is.
True, also it was inspired by Lawrence of Arabia which tells a story with similar values.
@@bicranium7198 Frank Herbert went for subtlety in the first Dune and very much wanted the reader to read between the lines. Villeneuve did make it clearer but he still kept it relativity subtle. Its not a good thing when a major story element goes over people's heads but Dune is a breath of fresh air compared to today's entertainment being so ham-fisted and with the writers constantly screaming at the audience.
The problem to some degree is Herbert also did make the story effectively true. Like as far as we are concerened in terms of the Kwisatz being able to see the future Paul only has a single path that realistically leads to eventual everlasting peace. He doesn't want to do it but his only options is to sacrifice his own sanity and morals to save humanity or to selfisly reject it and run away which will doom humanity and cause more deaths anyway. The only conculsion one can come to based on Herberts own words is even though it's the least shit path the price paid is still not worth it. It's better to doom humanity than to save it at the cost of billions. It honestly confuses itself slightly in that way.
@@bicranium7198they are literal Normies, consumerist lefty lowest common Denominator types.
Of course it went over their heads .
Stilgar was just being a solid hype man throughout, respect 🤙🏽
Agreed! He was like Morpheus in this movie. It’s just sad & tragic how he devolves from wise, experienced mentor to religious fanatic on blind faith…
Jesus I hope you're not serious. The whole point of the story is how prophets are BS and fanaticism ruins people like it ruins Stilgar
it works out both ways, comedic relief & the point author was trying to make. Fanaticism sees no bound & Stilgar is a perfect portrayal of both ideas
Lisan al Gaib!!!!
Its so funny having watched Life of Brian reaction not long ago they nailed Stilgar to a tee
The screen presence from Timmy on that speech scene was one of the most captivating thing to happen to me in recent memory. This guy is definitely going places!!!
For real, I wanted to holler Lisan Al-Gaib but I think they would have called security. I am way too brown to be yelling in weird shit in public spaces.
He's got some pipes on him for sure.
@@nullunit This is the funniest comment I have read today. Maybe because I can relate 😭
Yeah, he got with me that and I wasn't sure if Chalamet could pull that off. Lisan Al Gaib!!!
"The King" on netflix tho
One sacred rule in writing is "show don't tell", "don't insult the audience", "the audience is not stupid", but what I've found is that some people need to be told the message to their faces otherwise it will fly over their heads.
YUP. i can't wait how Denis would do the third movie.
Dune 2 discourse has become book readers jerking each other off, because they know the bad things Paul will commit. Smh
Yeah, I do think there was needed a sequence at the end showing Paul attacking the other houses, commiting horrible acts and bringing death and horror, sometimes is needed to be a little more explicit. Maybe they'll show that in the next movie
i mean they didnt show the innocent people of the imperium. all they showed were the opps being evil. sure the visions said he would do "terrible things" and bring about a "great war" but as far as we know, this is just another "black and white good vs evil story" like starwars.
Yeah, the best movies show people enough that smart/attentive people can figure it out through observation, but also eventually make it super clear for everyone else. It is unbelievably hard to get through to 80+ percent of people without spelling things out.
Paul was a Mentat, Bene Gesserit, Fremen, Atreides, and Harkonnen. Technically a Reverend Mother and a "Reverend Father". Because by being male, he had access not only to the entire female lineage, but also the male lineage.
It's absurd how many storylines had to come together for him to exist.
Which male lineage...?
@@perrymanso6841 Every male in his bloodline on both sides
Mentat?
@@Killerkwoi13 As far as I know the water of life gives the knowledge of the previous Bene Gesserit, not people from outside?
@@perrymanso6841 No it gives you every person in your lineage BG or otherwise, it's just that only BG women have ever survived the water of life, until Paul.
The arena scene is black and white because of the Black Sun. When they're inside in the dark there is color.
yes, hence why the shield appeared black. It's the same shield everyone uses in both films, it just looks crazy in infrared
I freakin love Harkonnen's planet aesthetics!
I thought that Messiah was too blunt with its message, but now I see why it was needed. Some people can't grasp a point unless it's EXPLICITLY spelled out to them.
It’s too bad they had to dumb it down to the point that it got annoying (Chani constantly whining and crying about it.)
@@Gunnar001 It seems like they haven't dumbed it down enough, considering this reaction.
I'm a firm believer in the "death of the author".
@@ninjatoriumnova2483 it's not about "dumbing it down", it's about not providing any alternative. How are the viewers supposed to be against Paul when all they've seen are comically evil Harkonnen?
@@electricant55 Because there can be two bad sides. Not every story needs a hero.
The Harkonnen home world of Giedi Prime orbits a black sun which makes everything look black and white. There's a really cool transition between the inside artificial light, which allows the eyes to see color, to the black and white outside. The lack of color makes Geidi Prime look like it has no hope and no individualism. The Harkonnen society evolved with that black sun to have a black and white mentality which explains why many of them, if not all, are psychotic. Even fireworks, which are supposed to give people joy, looks like an oily, inky oppressive thing.
Geidi Prime is a highly industrialized planet in the Imperium. Most of the natural beauty there: Flora, Fauna, etc. has likely been choked off, removed. Or probably perished because of their black sun
Interesting thing is that that Geidi Prime footage was not shot with a black and white camera.
But with a Alexa LF, modified so it could only see infrared and not any visible light.
so it is infrared spectrum footage not black and white footage.
@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 It was such a good choice. The Giedi Prime sequence was absolutely visually stunning.
@@CatCubed It gave the prop department a lot of extra work when the choice to shoot infrared was made.
Denis Villeneuve wanted clothing to show up as black and this meant they had to change a lot of the materials originally used.
They should have explained it better. The rule of "cool" only impresses a fool.
After Paul fights Feyd and wins, Stilgar's response is hilarious 🤣🤣
it's like he's showing something to his friends ahahah
The best hype man ever😭
"What did I say, huh? WHAT DID I SAY??? LISAN AL-GAIB!"
It isn't just that, it's also to cover for his Paul in his moment of perceived weakness so that the enemy don't get any funny thoughts.
A great scene.
@@comancostin4623 agreed thats what i felt too.. i think everyone in that room thought paul was going to get killed near the end of the fight so this was his way to cover it for him
I didn't know Villeneuve can pull off a comedic scene like this 😂
The next book is Dune: Messiah and it is significantly smaller than Dune. Third book is Children of Dune.
When Paul talks about seeing a narrow way through after drinking the water, we get a close up glimpse of his knife stabbing Feyd in the last fight.
I’ve seen the movie 3 times in imax and I never saw that scene until the digital release
UA-camrs: “Yeah! Go Paul!”
Everyone else: “SILENCE!”
Nah. You would say the same for a messiah.
@@di3486 And that's the danger that Herbert wrote about. He's not a messiah. He's a villain that the people created.
@@SilverEye91Paul isn't a villain. FH's warning about charismatic leaders more applies to followers and their escalation of force than the leader himself. In the book Paul desperately wanted to prevent the jihad, and only gave into it when his infant son was killed in a sardaukar raid. By the time he marches into the Emperor's throne room, Paul realizes that there's no way to stop the jihad. The best he can do is attempt to direct it. It slips from his hands, and by the second book Paul is a shell of his former self.
i mean its hard to care about the rest of the imperium when weve literally seen none of it except for harkens and scheming emperor. blame the lack of world building.
Book readers : " SILENCE !!!!!!! "
I watched this in IMAX. One of the last showings in my area. It was quite the experience, and having read the book, i was beyond pleasantly surprised how Villeneuve was able to provide such an epic interpretation of this sci fi masterpiece.
The goal of the Bene Gesserit is to produce an omniscient being called the kwisatz haderach in which they can fully control to ensure that the future is always in their hands.
Fremen aren't less advanced than other civilizations out there. They just aren't space faring and are more specialised for the desert. Otherwise all their technology is on par with what others have.
It’s interesting what’s considered primitive. The fremen are shown to have superior tactics and still suits but are seen as lesser for lacking any space faring vessels
i love that the advanced tech makes no use of screens, just some holos, i kinda wish our technology would evolve into that
Their tech is based upon the conditions in which they live, their environment.
@@jimtamsno computers allowed in Dune so minor projectors is probably all they have
@@darrylguerrant5101 and yet the sieches of the fremen are factories, water collectors, and armories. They are more like strongholds than decorated caves. They have industrial infrastructure, but don’t really need anything more than that
12:32 in the book a core pillar of the fremen belief is actually terraforming, they persue it religiously not just by saving water, they are actually preparing, introducing certain plants to stabalise the sand then other plants to do something else basically, what's actually being done currently to stop desertification in certain regions on earth.
Yes, I think it was introduce by Pardot Kynes
In the books the Kynes family taps in to the Bene Gesserit's seeded mythology among the Fremen to make terreforming an objective of religious significance because their plan will take 500 generations and religion is the only way to ensure that the goal is passed down into deep time.
350 to 500 years, not generations@@billhutchinson6318
Paul did say Billions across the galaxy will starve if he goes south.
Paul had many visions that didn't end up happening
@@electricant55Well, the one where 60 billion people died by his actions did happen lmao
@@martingenero6328 and how are they supposed to know this? people give them shit for not checking spoilers online lol
@@electricant55 Uh? Whos they? Wth you talking about? I was talking about Paul Atreides
@@martingenero6328 the normies
For the prophecy, remember that the Bene Gesserit know *roughly* what is required to make the Kwisatz Haderach. As such they can incorporate it into their prophecies so that, wherever he arises, he will be welcomed and embraced as a messiah. In particular he'll need something like the Reverend Mother creation process. In the case of Arrakis, that means taking the water of life and then to take a diluted form of it (a small amount mixed with other liquid, namely Chani's tears) to come out of his trance. Add in whatever ways the prophecy shifts to match local culture and you get something that Paul can match even while not intending to (and he openly intends to at various points).
In short they created a situation wherein their messiah would become a local messiah and have a powerbase *by default*, a thing Paul and Jessica knew, used, and manipulated with varying degrees of regret.
Thank you that's what I've been saying. They created a prophecy that they could easily fulfill. What people say is the prophecy came true. Of course it did it was designed to. And it was vaguely worded so that had Paul drank from a spring in the desert, it would have come true. The Lisan al-Gaib would be born in the South. Paul wasn't but he was reborn there after drinking the water of life.
You can twist a vaguely worded sentence to mean almost anything.
That's how this scam works
damn so lady Jessicas the true villain..
@@thatweirdbwah_yes, they make it very clear in the movie that she's manipulating people yet I'm still seeing people confused lol.
@@thatweirdbwah_ mother of villians
wrong the prophecy of the lisan al giab is organic in creation, the BG do not know about the water of life so they coudln't have created that part of the faith
Suraj is my dude usually but he really was going for jokes per second record here, talking over everything.
yeah this reaction was kinda weird tbh
@@deek60819 I mean lets be honest this is the D-team
Yeah wish they just reacted to everything and not just talk over like 90 percent lol like let the scene marinate damn haha
@@qcrew2938 Marketa alone is enough to make any team she's in be the F team lmao.
Yeah agree takes away from the art I watch movies and reactions to share and get away not to here love for actors or shot locations
Man I'm glad I watched this in theaters early, not having my personal impressions tainted by spoilering memes.
47:16 The prophecy for "The One" (Kwisatch Haderach) IS real, the bene gesserit spread the prophecy into different variants on different planets (Lisan Al Gaib on Arrakis). The Bene Geserit planted the prophecy on different planets in case that "The One" would end up being birthed an whatever planet. This is told in Dune part 1
The prophecy is real in that the Bene Gesserit engineered every aspect of it. It's only real by their actions.
Kwisatch Haderach and Lisan Al Gaib are two different things. They aren’t variants
@@N3xtStopHell Yes. They are both separate things.
The real kicker, is that both are Paul, and his choice between the two will decide the fate of humanity going forward; to either enslave humanity under the Kwisatch Haderach, or plunge humanity into a holy war as the Lisan Al Gaib.
Either way, it is essentially two prophecies of two separate villains, and either one can be true, or false, depending on the choices Paul makes.
That beginning, when the Harkonnen soldiers just RISE up into the air, that was when I knew this was going to be phenomenal.
Edit: Oh, and this, along with the first Dune movie and Lawrence of Arabia should set the benchmark for how to film in the desert.
No for real. When I saw it in theaters the hairs on the back of my neck stood up at attention!
Watched it the first time and had the same feeling, took my sister to watch it last night and she goes wtf 😂😂😂
I read somewhere that the Sand riding sequence took them 40+ days to shoot & lemme tell ya', it definitely showed
That MMO that is coming out looks like they are incorporating all that float tech and I really want to be a floaty murder machine on Arrakis.
I looked at my sister and we both did this "this is awesome" look.
Watching reactions like this shows me how easy it is to to start a cult 😂😂
Please explain
I think the nuke was to open the path for the worm to come in. It was to destroy the mountain. Also to show they have the atomic power.
Every house has atomics, Im not sure why the hardons didnt use theirs
Correct, and this is an important point. The Houses all adhere to something called the Great Convention which absolutely forbids the use of nuclear weapons against human beings. All Houses are mutually pledged to destroy a House that violates the ban. Paul skirts the problem by using the Atreides family atomics to destroy the massive rock Shield Wall that surrounds and protects Arrakeen. This both allows the huge sandstorm to enter the basin (disrupting the shield on the Emperor's ship) and the sandworms to follow carrying the Fremen warriors.
In the novel, after the Fremen defeat the Sardaukar, the Emperor accuses Paul of violating the Great Convention. However Paul dismisses the accusation by saying he only used the family atomics against a natural feature of the desert. ""It was in my way and I was in a hurry to get to you, Majesty."
@@MongooseTales very cool. I didn’t read the book. That’s a cool extra nuggets I didn’t know. I wonder in the movie didn’t the bomb did kill some saudakar? Like the huge amount of rocks trampled some of the soldiers. It’s that still considered adhering to the great convention?
@@zoneVgroup 7 months late to reply but the movie did not expound a lot of the finer details so it could be considered irrelevant as to movie lore.
Book lore wise I think he can still get a pass since any rock that kills any Sardaukar can be considered fair game since technically they are at war. Also at that point in time the Spacing Guild (another detail the movie is lacking) would not allow Arrakis to be brought under nuclear holocaust since that was the only known source of the Spice Melange.
@ I didn’t read the book. I just thought since the last movie they say the worm couldn’t get in cause it’s surrounded by mountains. My first thought is the Nuke was used to let the worm in and to show they have nuke. Your probably are right. I didn’t read the book.
That voice at the beginning is the best way to shut up everyone in the theater.
Brilliant, Denis
Water is so important, showing them burn the bodies is a way of showing that they’ve already begun to lose their way under the fanaticism to the Lisan Al Gaib.
Actually that isn't true. That water from the burning bodies turns into a vapor and that vapor goes into the atmosphere and can be collected later in time. The same water that you drink is at least 4.5 billion years old.
Javier Bardem surprised me the most in this movie. Didn't expect his to be my favorite performance alongside Chalamet's. (and soon after opening weekend becoming a meme) Stilgar gradually goes from funny and endearing to unsettling.
See it in IMAX. I think this film is the first ever to be shot entirely in IMAX I could be wrong though. See it in IMAX. Treat yo selves.
The black and white was to show the limited spectrum of the black sun of Giedi Prime. Fremen tents and sietches have moisture seals and water reclamation so it’s not an issue to lose bodily fluids while in them. The first movie shows Paul and Jessica drinking reclaimed moisture from a tent.
Also in Dune book lore, the Fremen are covered more in their heads than the hoods used in the film (understandble so the audience can differentiate characters).
Austin Butler went from being a background character in Ned's Declassified and Zoey 101 to this
yeah i only ever saw the trailer for elvis and was like "oh great another talentless pretty boy hollywood is trying to cook up"... and when i saw this i was like "oh damn my guy is terrifying, this dude can act his ass off"
@@jimtamsTbf, the guy was in a Quentin Tarantino and Jim Jarmusch movie in the same year. That's not exactly the kind of thing that happens out of nowhere. 😂
Love how Rana went all British at 58:15! 😂 "I can't... I literally can't!"
lol i noticed that too XD
It amazes me every time. Paul drinks the water and his visions bring him to a space in time where his sister is roughly his age, she's on Dune, There's an ocean of water in front of them... ON DUNE!!! Not a single person ever mentions it. These movies flash by at break neck speeds
55:45, in book "Abomination" refers to Paul's sister who by then already born and has Bene Gesrit memory and Voice ability.
This is a weird ass reaction. Like, how they slap you in the face with the messaging and it soars over their heads.
I like it it’s seeing a take that’s both the same and different it’s a book about politics and religion there’s no way the events weren’t gonna be subjective if the ending isn’t
That’s why slapping in the face with the message was not necessary. They change the best of the story and it was wasted.
it didn't soar over their heads, they just weren't that into the story that much... they were joking around most of the time, it happens
@jimtams No, they are into the story. They just talk, that's what reactors do.
When the message is blind faith bad yet the story leads to blind faith good results... People believe it lol
Just for the record, Duncan Idaho was Paul's primary swords master (He was literally Sword Master for House Atreides). Gurney Halleck only trained Paul in the first movie because Idaho was already on Arrakis.
Stilgar yelling “Lisan-al gaib” after Paul wins the duel has the same energy as Michael in The Office when he can’t stop himself from saying “That’s what she said!”
I feel like Christopher Walken was cast as the Emperor as a reference to the Fatboy Slim music video where they quote "walk without rhythm and you won't attract the worm" lol
Christopher Walken was the Emperor in 1984's Dune
@@LucasPNunes-y8qNo he wasn’t José Ferrer was. Walken wasn’t even in the first dune.
@@LucasPNunes-y8qYou probably watched an edit someone made when he was playing a different character but imposed into the original dunes’ scenes, i dont blame you it was well done but evidently a joke.
@@LucasPNunes-y8q in what world
@@LucasPNunes-y8q We got a worldhopper over here
Regarding the Fremen’s reverence of water… in a sexual context… Fremen men are taught how to reach orgasm without ejaculating.
Yes, this is legitimate Dune lore. :)
on some tantric shit lol
The Fremen are all about the edging.
But how can the semen reach where it's supposed to reach for biological reproduction purposes without ejaculating???? 🤔🤔
The fremen are the ultimate no nut November gods. I remember when I was a horny religious teen I wanted to learn how to do that to get through a loophole in gods rules…. Lmao.
@@jimtams finch with the ficus plant 💀
The Lisan Al-Gaib is a legend planted by the Bene Gesserit. It's a common prophet story. Meanwhile the Kwisatz Haderach is the end goal of the Bene Gesserit breeding program (a male with all the powers of the sisterhood, the ultimate power), the point was for the Bene Gesserit to attain supreme power by controlling a prescient emperor. Two entirely different things.
So now they have Paul who is their goal, right? Why are they against him?
@@Aemond2028 Paul was one generation too early. He was unexpected and more importantly, the BG cannot control him especially after he went to exile within the Fremen. In the book Paul went to live with the Fremen for 2 years.
Ironically Kwisatz Haderach also means "shortening of the way" and the BG should have planned for the KH to be born 1 generation early. But they were to blinded, even the Reverend Mother Mohiam to acknowledge that Paul could have been the KH especially when Paul was way too resilient during the Gom Jabbar test.
As long as Paul is alive his house lives. Chani is watching Paul's descent into a warlord, it seems inevitable. Both Paul and the Fremen are cornered into a fight for their own survival because other powerful people want to make money and stay on top. Being nice and diplomatic cost Paul's dad his life, once he knew he was targeted, he should have prepared for war.
They sped up time in the movie. In the book Paul and Jessica where with the Fremen for 3yrs before the Emperor came to Dune and his sister is a wierd little toddler that's also a Reverend Mother
I read a comment from somewhere where they said in the books or some other source that Paul's mother talked to Chani about how sometimes the women the emperors marry don't ever feel the warmth of their husbands but "us" concubines are referred to as wives or something along those lines. After seeing Dune Prophecy I finally understood that statement
It’s actually the last line in the original book
"I would very much like to be equal to you."
And by the end only Chani who consider Paul as their equal, as she is the only one standing while everyone else raises Paul above them.
Timothee Chalamet in the scene where he is speaking to the Fremen is one of the best acting performances I've seen in recent years. His voice, inflection, and physical demeanor demands the audience's attention, I was absolutely engulfed in that scene. It was the first movie I had seen in theaters in a while and I was not disappointed in the slightest. Truly an amazing performance.
Did I just watch 4 people completely miss the point of Dune?
Yes
So would you suggest I pass on this reaction? Are there any good reactions that understand what's happening?
Come on it isn‘t as obvious as everyone says. You‘re all talking in retrospect, wirh knowing what happens in Dune Messiah.
@@pl9462 Nope, never read the books or watched the previous films. This movie is very obvious with its messaging. Not obvious enough, though, it seems.
@@pl9462I mean dude one of the reverend mothers literally says they planned the whole thing lol it was VERY obvious and I never read the books
Seeing this in IMAX, the sand worms made my goddamn seat SHAKE with how loud it got. But damn, Javier Bardem and Austin Butler were scary good in this film.
Butler killed it as Feyd Rautha; pacing, acting, visuals, this movie succeeded on so many levels. It also addressed my chief critique of the books with Paul killing the Baron instead of Alia.
The worm riding feels real because it is "real". They made a platform that looks like that and shot a massive of sand at it and at the stuntman on it. When it feels like he's getting blown away is because they placed the platform vertically with the camera on it.
The scene where he jumps in the gap made by the worm is also made without CGI.
Some non-spoiler context that was cut for time
1. The bene geserit are actually only one of three major "powered" people, there's also the Mentats (human computers, don't worry about them) and the Spacing Guild. The Spacing Guild control *all* interstellar travel and communication and are dependent on the spice, this is why paul's threat to destroy the spice protects him and Arrakis from attack, the Spacing Guild can't risk pissing him off so they are now beholden to him.
2. You can't use atomics against people in the Dune universe, here he used it against a natural feature of the desert which is a grey area that he exploited
3. When Paul said he will always love Channi, that means that he won't love or truly be with Irulan, in the book he told Channi she would be the royal concubine, but Jessica's words to here are more important "History will remember us as wives"
4. Paul was distressed at how Stilgar went from a friend to a fanatic
5. This all happens WAY faster here than in the book, Jessica had already given birth to Paul's sister by this point. In fact, in one of the funniest dark moments I've read, she as a two year old was running around the palace killing wounded Sardukar.
"lead them to Paradise" CHILLLLSSSSSS!!
The Harkonnen world (Gildi Prime) has a black sun, which is why all the colors are washed out, and everything outside appears black and white. Notice inside there is more color.
Fun fact is, that we still have not met a single navigator in these Villeneuve movies. I'm looking forward for the next episode.
Just as he held back the Emperor and Irulan for this movie, he held back the Guild navigator for the next one. Smart choice IMHO.
I’m pretty sure the people with orange masks on Caladan in the first movie were navigators, maybe not full fledged.
@@Roach_Dogg_JR those are just ordinary Guild personnel, full fledged navigators come in large tanks and we did not see that in the 1st movie.
32:15 one of the guard/officers for House Atreides-- credited as LT. Lanville( Roger Yuan)--seen in their first landing on Arakkis-- you also see him wearing the signature uniform hat and commanding the Atreides’ defense forces at the front gate; he’s the one that yells “Atreides!”, in the deep voice as a rallying command to the other house defenders. Those were the Atreides soldiers that formed that single line of defense on the stairs to fight the Harkonnen soldiers, while the Sardaukar dropped in from behind them. In the books he has no name, when introduced in arena battle, but did have the Atreides House Bird crest tattoo on his body; in the film it’s on his wrist, in the book, it’s over his chest. 😮
One of the best sound mixing and sound editing watched in movie theater. Best experience ever.
I assume they did what they did with Chani at the end to set up a kind of cliffhanger for a possible 3rd movie (Dune: Messiah), but that's not how things played out with her at the end of the book. After killing Feyd-Rautha, Paul did indeed subjugate the emperor and claim his daughter's hand in marriage to legitimize his ascendency, but Chani was right by his side. And Paul made it very, very clear that the princess would lead a barren, isolated life, as he would never touch her. Chani would officially be called concubine, but in every way that mattered she was his wife, his only love, and the mother of his children. Chani wasn't done wrong in any way. In the book, she knew exactly what was going to happen and why, and she stood by Paul through it all.
Florence Pugh is 1000 times hotter than Zendaya he should deffo tap that
jesus fucking christ this movie has become the new Starship Troopers with regard to the number of people who cluelessly misinterpret it
the average individual who hasn't read the books wouldn't walk out of this movie with the interpretation the author intended and that's fine. I'm sure the third installment will make it clearer for the audience when it's eventually released.
Dissapointed that none of you get the central message that this is NOT a 'heros' journey story, but the very opposite
That's what happens when you joke and talk through the entire fucking movie
That just sounds like you judging the reaction with the hindsight of knowing what happens next. Everything Paul does in this movie is heroic and quite righteous. Yes, people will cheer for him!
@@hirvale no it is not lol. He is literally enslaving those people and taking them to commit genocide. Nothing he does in this movie is heroic lol. Dude missed the whole point of Herbert's story
@@LauraGS564 here you go again, saying things that didn't happen 😂. Go back to your books since you can't remove yourself from their context.
@@LauraGS564the books are much more clear about how Paul’s religion is taking over these people but it’s not as easy to see in the movie. like multiple quotes from the book say how Stilgar goes from a friend to a follower. you don’t get that in the movie.
I was really sad at what happened to stilgar. He is such a strong, charismatic leader himself, but in his fanatism he looses all individuality, just raving on and on about his saviour. I also thought that in his epic speech in the south, Paul just states things to the Fremen they all know already. Yes, he kinda reads this guys mind, but its so easy to plant one or two people in the crowd to fake this scene or just learning a thing or two about one of the leaders. It could all be a grift. Also notice how Paul went from we are all Fremen, we are are equal to "I AM THE DUKE of Arrakis" real fast. And then from "we are making Arrakis a paradise" to "go on a galactic Gihad for me".
i think paul is using his prescience to read into the minds of people... he looks at a possible future where he has a conversation with those people to get information about them, even though that potential future never happens... same as his convos with jamis in the first movie
yeah, it was really sad to see Stilgar's transformation...
The water they keep from the dead one day they'll use that water put it back into arrakis n terraform the planet. Paul starts the terror forming process n by the 3rd novel children of dune people drown from floods n by book 4 artakis is a paradise planet again so Paul does start it but it will be devasting later on.
Agreed, stilgar is probably one of the best fighters in the universe. A badass in every sense of the word, he was an almost a fatherly figure for Paul, but fate turned him into a fanatic groveling at Paul’s feet.
@@travisgray8376 yeah exactly he was the chosen one… but was the chosen one the hero?
I understand that because they had Chani not stand with Paul that they couldn't use the final quote in the book, but Jessica saying "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives." is such a bad ass quote
You guys might watch it, but my god you didn't take on board what was being said at all.
seriously it's like they just forgot the entire story from the first film
Did you fuckers not watch the first film? It’s like y’all just completely forgot about the important details and just talk about stupid ass jokes…
I hope no cult gets close to you guys because you would fall for it really quick
Dude Suraj was pitch perfect singing that soundtrack!
The Fremen reverend mother is a byproduct of the Bene Dessert's Missionaria Protectiva, spreading propaganda throughout the centuries. Even though she's not an actual Bene Dessert sister, she developed parts of their skills
And the Oscar for Best Picture goes to....
There's some scene is unclear for everyone so here's the break down:
1/ Why the Worms let Fremens drove on their back while they can just dive back into the sand and it's done, problem solve ??
=> Actually, these Worms are like Whales, they still need air to breaths !! You can actually see their "Breathing holes" under the skin when Paul pulling it skin up !! If too much sand go through that hole, the Worm will actually get suffocated !! So it's not they don't dive back to the sand, it's because they CAN'T do that !!
2/ Why the nun who raising little Worm put it down the water and it's just die ? Can it hold it's breath ???
=> Well.. actually to the Worms, WATER is poison ! They are Silicon-based organic, meaning they don't rely on water ! Like how we don't rely on Methanol and Methanol is poison to us while science have proved that Methanol can actually support life like how Oxygen did on our planet ! If we are Carbon-based organic, somewhere in the Universe might have a Methanol-based organic. Then these Worms were Silicon-based organic !! So that scene where the nun drown a baby Worm in water, it's more like she put it in a pool of poisons !! Still, i'm sure you will then asking "Why the Worm's blood is liquid then? Does they afraid of water?" ! To answer that: Water is not the only matters that can exist in liquid form !! We also have Mercury, a METAL that exist in liquid form !! So the Worm's blood is likely liquify Silicon !!
the fact that whoever edited this cut out most of the "my name is paul Muad'Dib Atreides, duke of Arrakis" should be criminal, that scene is so damn powerful
The creators literally changed the story elements to make the point clearer. But they underestimated how dead media literacy is today.
They didn't change shit. They just made Chani more complex
@@LauraGS564 They changed more than one detail of the story, it's dumb to not admit that. Including Chani, she supported Paul in the original. But in this version she's the voice of reason, which makes her more interesting, but more importantly, more clearly communicates to the audience the idea of Paul not being a hero and his path not being "good".
But that's too much for modern viewers, like The Normies. YAAAY LISAN AL GAIB!!!1111 HAPPY ENDING BABEH!11
The issue with the message of Dune is that Frank Herbert wanted to say "charismatic leaders are inherently dangerous because of the uncritical loyalty we give to 'great men of history.'"
However, for that to be your message, you can't have your lead character be a straightforwardly evil person. Because the point isn't that Paul specifically is bad, but that nobody should ever end up in Paul's position to begin with.
Plenty of people are going to miss that nuanced point because Paul is depicted sympathetically and does not undergo any kind of heel turn. But he DOES start a space war that viewers won't see the implications of until Part 3
@@LauraGS564 Basically they made Chani an atheist so that the "chosen ones might be bad, actually" subtext could be voiced for the audience. But for many reasons, a lot of people aren't going to have that takeaway of the story ... and I think some viewers might actually feel a little betrayed by how Dune Messiah depicts the fallout of Paul's actions in Dune Part 2
@@DanteRU0312 lol relax bro, they just weren't emotionally invested in the story and just enjoying the visuals...
During Paul’s speech in the theatre I had to lean forward
i was LOCKED tf in
People criticize James Cameron for not being subtle with the message of his movies, yet takes like these prove why he's correct in not being subtle
The first and second Movie were both adopting the first book "Dune", the third movie will be adopting the second book called "Messiah" . Children of Dune is the third book and will probably not be adapted.
We thought Paul was gonna be Luke, but he turned out to be Anakin. And His Son Will Be Palpatine.
Is he really Palpatine though? In the end he is merciless and ruthless, but the golden path is something to be achieved through this. Palpatine was no martyr, no self made villain for humanity to overcome and outgrow. I don't think that comparison is apt.
@iantha999 The entire creation of the kwisatz haderach was a colossal mistake on the part of the bene gesserit. That Leto 2 cleaned up their mess doesn't mean the 3000 years of tyranny and oppression he put the galaxy thru was justified. The ends do not justify the means. Every life crushed under the boot of Letos regime was a human being with dreams of their own. They were not statistics, no person is.
@@iantha999 I haven't read the new post sequel SW lore, but in the EU, they pushed the idea that Palpatine was preparing the Galaxy for the arrival of the Vuuzhan Vong(is that the spelling?). So he was doing the right thing the worst way.
That's no way of speaking about the God Emperor
@@iantha999 It depends, whether you believe the ends justify the means or not. I think anyone who behaves Leto II did is a monster, regardless of what the outcome is. Being the cause for misery, suffering, and death on a galactic scale, then saying "but muh reasons" is EXACTLY what you'd expect a villain to proclaim.
The last Atredies in the Arena is Landville. A General of the Atredies. He’s the one who said “Shields!” Before the ship opened its doors for the first time on Arrakis and he’s also the one who says “Stop right there!” To Stilgar when he visits Duke Leto in part one. The actor is also the fight choreographer for the movies.
I have a hypothesis that the voice at the beginning of each film is the voice of the God Emperor retelling the story as he sees it in his visions and genetic memory.
Not in the books no
What does your comment have to do with anything
@@ssplif5415 nothing just like yours wink
58:46 This part 😂 he couldn't resist to do it 🤣
45:50 Predict the future...✨️
Bruh how do you get the book order wrong _after_ looking it up
The next book is Dune Messiah, Children of Dune is book 3
59:22 The Fremen don’t waste moisture. I think Chani may be pregnant but didn’t tell Paul before he took the Water of Life. So no pull outs 😉
The one thing that gets lost is the goal of the Bene Gesserit. Princess Irulan is Bene Gesserit. Paul becomes Emporer and Irulan the Empress. All of their machinations end with a Bene Gesserit on the throne.
"Anybody got the Narcan?" when Jessica drinks the Water of Life is crazy 💀
@32:10 It's actually (1) the commander, briefly seen leading the first defensive assault in the palace hall against the Harkonnen in part one... and (2) the movie's stunt coordinator. (And 3, he is also a bodyguard in 007: "Skyfall.")
I'M POINTING THE WAY! Hard to pick a favourite moment but it's up there for me.
19:28 The mostly quiet shot of them running and the music cutting in when the debris lands was so satisfying to me, I had to rewind it. There are so many top tier shots in this movie but that little detail made that scene stand out to me more than it would have without it
The cinematography and the aesthetics are best parts of this movie. Especially the first one
The mood shift after Paul drinks the water of life is insane! I felt like Chani at the end, like I don’t even know who Paul is anymore.
The crazy thing is one of them has even read the novel and they all still couldn't grasp the point of the movie. Unbelievable
What's the point?
@@LucasBR702 typical respond, you haven't read the books
@@boiboiboi1419 yes i have read the books asshole,otherwise I wouldn’t waste my time answering non-literary pricks like you
@@boiboiboi1419 f*ck off you assh0l3,i give your answer and you accuse me of knowing nothing,maybe you should do yourself a favor and actually read a book for once
Watching Paul become this dark Theocrat is terrifying. I know people are up in arms about him being destined and love watching him win, but I'd like to remind you that we've got no hard proof he's really destined for anything. He's gotten strong feats due to his power and resources but he's not a god. Watching the Freman bend to him warns of the moment where their messiah turns out to be just a man. It's a colonizers story. It never ends well.
Wait till you see his son lmao
1:05:16 the next book is called Dune Messiah
I get why people are complaining about these guys not getting it.
But I do think there is an underlying issue where the enemies Paul is opposing are so terrible its hard not to take his side. That and he basically has a choice between becoming this horrible emperor/savior who brings mass death or allowing his adopted people to be under the boot heel of an oppressive regime.
Waited so eagerly for this never clicked so fast on a video notification 😅
I have one problem with the desert heat and the still suits. In the first movie they said day time temperatures could CR each 140 F.
You had to wear protective clothing, cover your skin, or stay indoors. Suddenly, the heat doesn’t matter.
Put on a stillsuit and you do not even need to cover your skin.
Gurney was alive in the book as well
Yep, and the "You young pup!" line when Gurney first sees Paul is a direct quote.
@@MongooseTales And the next thing Gurney wanted to do is to kill Jessica
Questions for the book readers:
How do you get a palanquin onto a worm that hasn't been shown to stop moving?
How does anyone disembark a worm once on board? I imagine the sands around the worm are liquidated for 100's of metres, so jumping off would be a sure death sentence.
How do they steer the worms? I know holding up the flaps prevents the worm from going underground. Does lifting the left or right side of the flap act as a steering wheel?
The only way I can think of getting off a worm would be to kill it or knock it unconscious by forcing it into a rock or mountain side.
worms get tired after long enough distances to the point that they just stop and i have no idea how they get stuff on the worm without just throwing it on
i watch these vids for the normies specialty we always get, the point flying clear over their head
From what I know, the first two films adapt Dune. The second book is called Dune: Messiah. Which will most likely be adapted in Dune Part 3.
The third one is Children of Dune (like Micky said), then God Emperor of Dune, and then Heretics of Dune.
Yes Rana, that is his sister, cause they both came from the same mom..lol..
They jokingly call the water of life worm piss, but conveniently ignore that Spice is literally (pre)-worm shit.
No, the prophecy is not "real"!
That's the whole point, Frank Herbert was already sick of the chosen one trope and showcased how the prophecy was carefully engineered by the Bene Gesserit and how they wanted to choose a puppet/figurehead!
It’s both… especially since Frank has Paul and then Leto II obtain near perfect prescience… it’s not so much that it’s fake, it’s that the “real” is attributed to the divine, while in fact, it’s man that becomes so advanced that through evolution and mathematical analysis, the spice and the water of life(and in Leto II ‘s case, fusing with the worms themselves) they are able to see outcomes and chose the right one for themselves… the fake part is that the Bene Gesserit, Paul, Jessica and eventually Alia Atreides, make the Fremen believe that it’s their God that has set up the very real power the Bene Gesserit had cultivated over centuries of genetic and scientific practice and evolution. Meanwhile the Bene Gesserit make their own created prophecy real… because remember the Kwisatz Haderach was always meant to be the messiah of many worlds, including on Arrakis, through the religion spread for centuries, by the wild Reverend Mothers-- and also it’s a type of prophecy/scientific theory, which the Bene Gesserit believe in, and do everything to bring it about. Frank Herbert’s other argument in the books is that there IS truth to all of these religions, practices, beliefs and prophecies-- BUT despite there being truth, that single or few facets of truth, does not make the general belief, and dogma truth, nor true enough to warrant such mindless adherence, that causes rationally thinking ppl to dismiss all doubt, and to throw themselves fully into any belief system that has such holes of doubt; especially, the biggest red flag to believing in anything in such a devote way , is whenever there is a sole Messianic/charismatic figure at the heart of it.
There were things outside of the bene gesserit control that happened to validate the prophecy though. Which makes it a gray area. Did a Reverend mother have a vision of the things Paul did in the future and add it, therefore Paul is fulfilling the prophecy because he's why it was written that way in the first place? Is it all luck? There are ways to invalidate it like a conspiracy but also odd coincidences. In the end it doesn't matter if it was real, Paul and his mother made it "real".
26:00 it took 3 months to shoot this scene, in a wind tunnel, with real sand, and a worm modell... that's why it look so real!
I wish they hadn't eliminated Thufir from the second part, just so we could see him apologize to Lady Jessica and then give his life for Leto's memory.