Makes you realize mantling and the like aren't so much about us getting places we previously couldn't, but more about adding a sense of immersion to our movement since we feel as though we've moved our maximum amount we could've. But that trade-off comes at the cost of gameplay, because then it is designed with that in mind, so while an animation is added and a flow is somewhat broken, we don't genuinely access any additional locations.
Ironically Favyn, the scarab encounter is such a good example that even you sold it short. Your mission isn't to board the scarab to take it down, just to take it down. It may be insanely difficult, but you can kill it without even boarding it with a god-tier grenade throw or rocket shot. It's ultimate in its freedom of approach, it is the anti-set piece.
I loved seeing that innovation from them back in the day. The jump in player interaction and sandbox utilisation between the Scarab fight in Halo 2 and this encounter in Halo 3 was remarkable.
I was recently replaying splinter cell chaos theory and it also has a ton of cool sandbox elements. Ones that might not even be apparent on the first playthrough. I love when games do that stuff, and it's something we saw more often in older games unfortunately.
I think this is your best Halo video yet. You've clearly explained why gameplay is more important than it seems on the surface, and why classic mechanics are better for Halo. Great work, Fav.
Its a bit one sided, like i halo 5 is not my favorite in the series but the multiplayer becomes more in depth when you know how much you can do in the movement, on the surface it looks like its making things easier for casuals but after seeing how much you can do with it its changed my opinion on the game all together, i don't think its a perfect game but i still think sprint, thrust and clamber has a place in the sandbox, if you look at how some maps in 5 can be traversed is absolutely unbelievable, the thing is i don't see a difference between that and all these trick jumps in the previous games, I'm not trying to seem like a 5 apologist but i think a lot of people that have the opinion that its mechanics don't belong are uneducated on the subject, i was of the opinion the 5 mechanics didn't belong but I've since changed my mind after realizing the full potential, this is coming from someone that has 4 as his favorite halo multiplayer, i had such a bitterness for 5 cause of all the shit i was being fed, don't be like the old me
@@JBzucc Bro at the end of the day the people who have been there since day 1 have a sense of what halo should look, sound and play/feel like. For me it's not a Bungie/343 thing either. Reach started it, and 4 and 5 has changed it all. All the newer fans who have been introduced to these "halo" games just don't have the same background to the series that we do. 343 felt that they needed to evolve Halo and they may have needed to in order to compete, but they didn't just evolve halo, they changed almost every last aspect.
While I love favn, I don’t see any suggestions; rather parallels that are great for how it should evolve but not how do we execute that in a literal do this sense. I’m at least glad he acknowledges the fan base is to blame when it comes to their bitching about halo; in my eyes both 343 and the community are to blame equally in different ways. It’s like marriage, if you don’t communicate well, the relation suffers. Both parties have to talk through it....unfortunately that’s really hard when you have 7-9 million fans that all have different ideas and beliefs.
The only positive thing he could have really said about advanced mobility, is that it's fun. He explained why it limited the other four aspects of the gameplay experience. Or, more so, makes it harder to implement them well. It's all still feasible, with either classic or advanced mobility, but it's more difficult and less consistent with the latter. I would personally like for Thrusters and Clamber to remain, just not Sprint. I don't often use it in Area, as I prefer to have my weapon up at all times, and have found my results to have improved since doing so. Of course, this then leaves me with stretched out maps, as I'm not travelling at full speed most of the time. It's all just personal preference though, at the end of the day. If I really really want a modern Halo game with classic mechanics in Multiplayer, I have Halo 2: Anniversary. But if Halo Infinite has advanced mobility again, I just really hope that Ground Pound and Spartan Charge aren't in Multiplayer...
@@Onlyinthe619 i get you, but I've been there since CE mate, ce is probably my favorite tied with 4 but i really dislike 2, 3 and reach for how much different reasons but i get you ay, its not the same but i still think there can be a place for enhanced movement, I'm not just someone that had 4 or 5 be his first halo
I say DOOM gets around not having a Sprint by being extremely fast pace. Doomslayer is never walking unless you make him walk, you always have this feel of extremely high speeds of movement. Older Halo's you feel extremely slow and cumbersome, if they do remove Sprint base movement speed should be increased. Definitely not to DOOM's speed but noticeably faster, as if always sprinting
They should increase the field of view, that's what makes it feel slow when walking. A wide field of view will make you feel like you're moving faster, a good example is halo ce vs. halo 3
@@raaaaaaaaaam496 Well, if Infinite turns out to be open-world as it's rumored to be, an increase in base speed may be necessary. Unless 343 comes up with a fast travel system like Zeta Halo's teleporter network.
I think the equipment pickups from halo 3 are underrated as to how much they kept the game fresh while still keeping the identity of halo in tact. It wasn’t as helpful for slayer, but for objective games equipment like the bubble shield revolutionized the dynamics of objective control. For instance if in multi-flag, if an enemy team member was stole the flag and then died with the flag in the crossfire, a player could throw the bubble shield to protect his fellow players and help recover the flag. It wasn’t overpowered like armor lock and only lasted just enough time to give equal opportune time. If you needed to capture a territory or the bomb you planted you had a chance to use it to keep the enemy from bombarding you with grenades or if it became close combat with br’s you had a chance to try to time the grenade throw right and jump out of the bubble shield and hope they took the damage. If players were being held down by a warthog, you could throw a power drain down to have one chance to quickly stun the vehicle if your plasma pistol couldn’t hit them, or if two team players came upon you out of nowhere, you had a slight window to quickly throw it and headshot them both in hopes of not being double teamed. With regen you had a slight window to recover in a fight or hold the objective just that extra second longer needed. Radar and flash equipment was pointless (but then again I use to think all the equipment was just there and not helpful at all for a long time, so who knows).
@Alex M, Correct! This dude ain't shit. He's like Crapgamer. This dude is about to make a living off Sony fans that hate Halo. Crapgamer, is trying to make a living off sony fans that hate XBOX. Halos control is Superior to All FPS Games. Now, I'll delete this dude, that his show never appears in my line ever again.
otherZinc I love halo, and it’ll always be my favorite game series, this guy has a point, open your ears, he is not talking trash on halo, he telling you why it can’t evolve to the next level and as a veteran I find that true.
Halo's gameplay has a purity that I would compare to quake. Obviously they aren't very similar games but if they added things like ironsights and clamber to quake it would just be wrong. Even the newest quake still plays similarly to quake 1, if you got really good at quake champions you could probably pick up the old ones as well. But getting good at halo 5 won't make you good at the original trilogy, because it's so much different. I think halo is very much a movement shooter, and adding things like clamber and sprint that are basically just assists to make the game easier takes away what makes the game a movement shooter. I think that raw movement in games is always better than having abilities like clamber or automated rocket jumping (Overwatch). Innovate and improve on the dynamics, make it more smooth, don't change the games mechanics.
Just ask yourself this. What would play faster, a game where you can move at top speed and shoot at the same time or a game where you're constantly forced to drop your weapon while moving around the map? Sprint, clamber and thrust aren't just illusions, they punish movement and all slow the game down. And about the sandbox, 343 dug their own grave trying to balance auto aim and magnetism with 3 different movement speeds in the game (Normal, Thrust and Sprint). It's impossible, and the same goes for map design. You can only scale any bridge, room or jump for one movement speed. This means that any part of the map is going to feel wrong and play bad when traveling at a different one. And you can't really strike a balance either because that'll ruin the composition. At the end of the day preferring Advanced Mobility or old school Halo is just a preference, but when all the top small team forgers (aka the best design minds in the community) claim Halo would do better without them you kind of have a problem.
Either way gun fights in halo 5 feel a lot faster (and in my opinion better) I love thrust and sprint I think it's great and really hope it's not removed.
Then I have to explain to them that I was once a retarded fanboy who kept playing that garbage because I was in denial. I was trying REAL hard to like that game. A few months in I ended up giving up because I could no longer stand 343 and their bullshit. And most of the games I played were just me boosting for unlockables. I barely played ANY legit matches in halo 4. You know you're not having fun playing the game when all you're interested in is grinding. If the game was actually good then you wouldn't feel the need to sit there grinding away because that's not actually playing. If the game was good you wouldn't see me talking shit about it all of the time on my channel right? Lol! If it was good then shouldn't I have played it as much as Reach, Halo 1-3, and even odst? Heck... I think I might have played halo wars 1 more than halo 4 lol. The only truly good thing about halo 4 is that it helped wake me up to bullshit in the gaming world and why I shouldn't trust 343. Perhaps they will get their shit together one day in the future (Not bloody likely since they love cod and micro transactions)... But for now I know for a fact that 343 blows. I wont give them a chance unless they do the following with halo 6... Split screen Tons of content A great storymode Sick visuals Make the game hardly like cod and mostly make it feel like HALO NO MICRO TRANSACTIONS! Heck... Maybe they should also launch the game for 40 bucks instead of 60 as a means of apology for fucking us over with their lies for so many years? Heck I dunno... Give us something to make up for your shitty games right??? I'm pretty much 99.9999999999999999999% sure though that halo 6 wont pull off what I just wrote and that it will just be another generic shooter with micro transactions, lies, and codlike game play. I would love to be wrong but I'm probably right so you wont see me getting hyped lol. NOT... ONE... BIT. ua-cam.com/video/VM4LXK-3fl4/v-deo.html
@HighEuphoria Perhaps you should fuck off back to 2007 and let him have his own opinion asshole; the og fandom really need to go outside, expose their vampire skin to the sun for first time in 12 years, stg it's like reinventing the wheel. If you think that him liking sprint and clamber is holding Halo back, your inability to tolerate other opinions and appreciate them is what is truly driving it into the ground
@@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY It's funny you say that about Halo 4 when it is just Reach with sprint. Then you want Halo to not feel like COD when it already doesn't come close to COD. You say you want it to feel like Halo but which one? They all feel different from each other be it CE's smaller sandbox and god pistol to H2's horrendous button combos and difficulty spike for legendary, H3 making the BR a projectile weapon and removing button combos from the game, ODST made you feel vulnerble and brought in a new perspective, and Reach expanding the sandbox by adding armor abilities (fuck armor lock). H4 really only adds sprint and you write it off just because it contains one mechanic that altered movement and gave players choice of moving faster in exchange of not shooting. You are just bored of Halo; if you're peak enjoyment of Halo was in 2007 then go back to that year and play it.We don't need Halo to become a re-release of H3 every 2 years like COD. Let the rest of us who are willing and want to see new things in Halo in peace.
I’m still seeing that realism excuse around. “Makes me feel like a super soldier.” So super soldiers have to put their gun down while running, thrusting, climbing? Thought they were super soldiers, not average joes. Glad Doom knows what makes you feel “super”.
Super augmentation is beside the point; However fast a person is when running without swinging their arms, they'll be faster when swinging their arms. It'a not about being "super", its an inescapable fact of how bipedal creatures move. Look at the robots being designed by the army. All their arms swing when running. There could be ways to implement a gun stabilization system, but not while the character holds the weapon in his hands.
So you want to climb without using a single hand? makes sense lol also you want shoot while sprinting? oh that wouldn't be overpowered, would it be? LMAO a Spartan are super soldier not a Thanos or Superman...
I really hope Halo Infinite is a true return to form. Classic is the only way to go. I hope 343 isn't just riding the nostalgia wave with just the art style. Amazing video!
Nah, it's just the way they did it. I'd love new halo games that "evolve" over time. Like I really love Reach, it added new things in a way that didn't change the core feeling that Halo gave. Halo 5 on the other hands, a game which tries to shove all of it down your throat at once. Which is exactly what Halo 5 did. When you play Halo you expect to play Halo. What you need to realize is that the older halo is what we kind of expected from Halo 5. Not CoD Advanced Warefare or Titan fall 2. If we wanted to play those games we would go and play those games. So we wanted to play Halo and the game just never released as a "Halo" game, you feel me? That is from a game play standing though. Now this is where the true hardcore fan comes out instead of just a casual player. The lore made no sense, the abilities came out of nowhere apparently Spartans never had them UNTIL now. Plot holes everywhere (unless you read the books)
Halo 5 is my personal favorite and ive always wondered why people hated these abilities so much, despite me playing since Halo 2. This vid did a great job explaining what i had such a hard time grasping. As much as i love H5, i agree with every point you put forward. Great content!
@@DescendingBlade right? Plus it could help halo feel more fair because you would have a greater chance to dodge enemy attacks with skill instead of luck
I'm kind of torn on this. I'm a long time fan of the series, and I do enjoy the original more "simple" feel of the game. But on the other hand, I kind of want the game play that more closely resembles what Spartans are capable of. I mean, compare the way Chief and the other Spartans move and behave during cutscenes and other videos, to the way you move about in the Halo games (especially 1-3). There's a bit of a disconnect there. Chief should feel like playing a superhero, because for all intents and purposes, he is. Compare him to someone like Captain America, Chief is stronger and faster than Cap WITHOUT his MJOLNIR armor, and with it he's kind of a monster. I mean a Spartan's top speed is in the 50-60mph range, with a more average easy running pace of 30-40mph. My point being, some of these abilities do call for a more dynamic and advanced gameplay, even beyond what we've had so far. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a game that truly feels like playing a Spartan, and I don't know if such a game could be fun and still feel at all like Halo. It's obviously a difficult task.
@Teh Modest Mouse Oh I thought the original comment what talking about graphics were the best but I thought the halo wars 2 graphics were pretty good because of their design
@@S1erra107 that's cause those are the only arguments that exist in favour of abilities. Even those who can explain what they do to Halo in terms of gameplay are ultimately only left with the defense of "they like them because of these changes". Ultimately they are defending their enjoyment of them which was never up for discussion. The discussion is "are they good for Halo overall?" And the answer is a resounding no because they objectively make other important aspects of Halo weaker just to accommodate them without them breaking the game.
See, you are ALREADY orejudiced against them, What exactly is wrong with the idea of "players like these ew abilities". I've checked out the OP videoes and his solution is always the same basically... "Sandbox gameplay". Sandbox gameplay is basically map control which going by how well OTHER arena shooters are doing, isn't popular among the vast masses. I do think a lot of the problems with Halo is the mistaken belief that player tastes don't change over time.
No Sprint, no climb mechanic, mlg playlist, a good ranking system , br start, balanced power weapons, good maps, and now you got a Halo we can talk about and get excited about, until then piss off 343.
You mean Halo 3? Haven’t we already played that game? Halo Reach did a really nice job with its spartan abilities. Why do you want to start all over instead of trying to tweak and evolve what we have now?
@@andrewgallagher7690 it's like saying to csgo players let's put in Sprint for the heck of it and also let's put the slide mechanic in the game as well...you obviously don't because you would ruin the core experience of the game, just like what they did to Halo. Halo is too far gone and it can't be redeemed so it's pointless talking about it.
@@will_of_europa Like it really is a hard decision. Im such a Halo fanboy, but even I played the shit out of Halo 5 multiplayer (Im almost max level). Ive really gotten used to the sprint and clamber and I very much enjoy it. But I played through ODST literally yesterday and I was thinking to myself how great this felt, even if it felt a little slow. I don't think they will go back to original movement for Infinite, but I would like to see if they could find at least some happy medium.
Favyn this is probably your greatest halo video. Explained so concisely and the use of examples was great. Unfortunately the higher ups at 343 are probably too stubborn to understand this and they will just take a few abilities out to ‘satisfy both sides’.
@@evolvedHE I was expecting the dreaded middle ground which is why I'll wait until extensive reviews are released about infinite to see if it's worth my money. I really hope it will be good but the clamber, sliding and sprinting has me worried.
Bungie adds armor abilities in Halo reach: "Oh wow finally something new and innovative!" 343 Industries making some illumination changes: "tHis iSn'T hAlO aNYmOrE"
@@DreableNeebal10 The double jump didnt hinder me shooting. Clamber sure did. Basicly Doom 2016 was mostly Run and Gun unlike something like Halo 5 which is Run OR Gun
Fantastic video Favyn! I really appreciate this new direction because people are much more likely listen to and be persuaded by a reasonable guy than an angry shouty guy.
I like Halo 5 pop but I wouldn't oppose 343i going back to the old gameplay in Infinite, but it sounds like they're going to have a happy medium of both styles
Hey Favyn, I love your videos and I agree with many of your points! But, could you maybe discuss the place of thruster pack in Halo, and its effects on core gameplay. Just the thruster alone, without sprint, mantle, and ADS.
Plus, if you think about it, you walk in classic games, only slightly slower than you sprint in newer games. They didn't add the ability to go faster. They added the ability to go slower, and removed the ability to go fast, and shoot simultaneously.
Summary Map design problems Sandbox complexity Movement and accuracy And the biggest problem; Fan base We need to realise that shooters have evolved since Halo 3 and we can’t run away from sprint any more (irony not intended), custom load outs was a problem, never to return again as it unbalanced the golden triangle of Halo, but sprint can’t, and I am happy that people appreciate and are happy with the way movement, sprint, clamber and slide is integrated in Halo Infinite
It literally just because 343i are very bad developers. Nothing more. Nothing complicated. Nothing to even make videos about. It is simply because 343i is garbage. Nothing more. There is no such thing as Halo anymore. All us super fans came to peace with it. Halo sank with Bungie's ship. Like every good captain does. You go down with the ship. 343 just perverted Halo to make money which 343 even failed at doing that. Crooks.
Halo wasn't simple for it's time. I remember getting into the passenger side of the warthog and was like wtf aren't I driving. It's simple now, but it wasn't for it's time.
As a casual Halo fan who hasn't played the series since 4, I might have an explaination for their most recent design philosophy when it comes to combat. I know this might sound rich, but hear me out: I remember some time before the release of Halo 2 flipping through those Halo Books, the Del Rey novels, and being absolutely amazed at the amount of lore given to the Spartans. The weapons, armor, how they trained children up to become augmented super soldiers, it made the likes of Master Chief seem like an indestructable terminator. Not that I could realize this as a young child, but looking back, it makes you wonder why the older games seemed way more conventional for the time, especially compared to games like Quake and Unreal, where combat was way more fast-paced and hectic. It seems that the developers, as time went on, wanted to design the gameplay mechanics to better fit the lore of the Spartan super soldier more - to turn Halo into a Power Fantasy, where you are rampaging through the maps and levels at a breakneck speed (or what is percieved to be breakneck speed; as demonstrated in your linked video about movement speed). Halo, for the most part, has always been sort of a power fantasy, but if you go back and play some Halo CE, both in the campaign and multiplayer, the Chief feels very slow and clunky, at least compared to the power-sliding, mantling, jetpacking Spartans of the more modern Halos. In Halo CE, you had just your basic walking speed, a moon jump, and a simple crouch mechanic that seemed only useful for crouch-jumping. Im not trying to poo-poo on the older games; I strongly support the thesis that modern Halo has lost it's focus of design, but I can understand why the devs have made such an effort to make Spartans "feel" like super soldiers. Hopefully, with Infinite, they take a more core-design approach with it, and focus on what makes Halo the game series that it is.
I'm making an assumption but I have the bad feeling that the mcc and reach releasing on pc could be early damage control for if halo infinite is really bad.
Aye of Reach I don’t think it’s going to be bad per say. But I do think that MCC on PC is just throwing classic fans a bone and sticking with modern halo gameplay for Infinite
I see that your ideas and analysis is more and more precise and interesting. The ideas proposed in this video greatly match reality and give a satisfying explanation to the state of the newer games!! I'm sold! Simplicity is more than just beautiful, it's functional. Simple can be easier balanced, thus giving more time and resources to explore and expand/deepen all the other aspects the experience is made of. Having simple base mechanics makes it easier to create good maps and content as it's wayy easier to predict and test how players can interact with the environment. How convenient, it has room, time and resources left for innovation! It's for a reason that the simpler Halos had more content: they were simply easier to make, and thus efforts went into making it unique, fun and compelling instead of going in just making it work. Hell I'm starting to understand what makes a good game! Thank you for your videos, and please keep making them; I want to understand further!!
@3:21 you nailed it. My own thoughts are that almost any change to be made to Halo makes it more generic, so it becomes more like other FPS than a Halo game.
You might have already mentioned this in a sandbox video, but I find it interesting how the REQ weapons show hints of how the sandbox could evolve. Stuff like the energy swords that increase mobility and the guns that generate black holes. I distinctly remember playing husky raid and the mental flips and rethinking I had to do to fully utilize and learn these wacky new weapons. It’s amazing what one new weapon can do for a game-just look at Half-Life 2
I think the main problem with Halo as in all games in the series besides maybe Halo 5 was weapon balance literally just grab a br and you win sniper rifle in Rockets were also really good if you picked up any other weapon you lost. In Unreal Tournament you can do well with every weapon besides the pistol and it is also a map control based game I don't understand why the plasma rifle has to shoot so slow I don't understand why the shotguns range has to be the range of being right next to someone to kill them I don't understand why the assault rifles bullets just stop after like 25 feet in front of you. Halo's weapon sandbox needs reworked. Halo 5 didn't make it more fun by having a more balanced weapon system but that wasn't a classic Halo game and the overall art style Maps and weapons lacked substance in that game. I believe that changing the weapon balance bringing back the classic movement and making new memorable Maps and weapons with the classic art style I wouldn't make multiplayer feel like a brand new experience and could lead to what people consider the best Halo game of all time
The Sword and shotgun can be really powerful on the right map, also the carbine was usually slightly better than the BR just with less ammo available. So I think your point about weapon balance is a bit off, it depends on the game though, there were completely useless weapons like H2 Needlers. but in my opinion most weapons are pretty useful in most games, even assault rifles/ pistols if those are the starting weapons. The sniper/ beam rifle is really overpowered though because it is effective at all ranges, but even then only if you have the skill to consistently land headshots so it’s not too bad.
On the sniper subject, I went from being garbage with the sniper in Halo 2 and 3 to being a headshot machine in Halo 5. It felt unearned because I knew it wasn't just me getting better.
My personal opinion is why they struggle to move forward is because the graphics don't look real enough, I think if Master Chief was to be able to do some different types of moves which include running on the wall ducking for cover like in Gears of Wars for example. Maybe have like different mechanics where he is able to do more with his armor suit and etc, I think would be totally refreshing. Having the enemy more engaged into the battlefield would be more realistic. I think the battlefield series it's a good example of how realistic there engine is and if it had something close to that I think it would gravitate to a bigger mass of gamers. But that's my opinion, I wonder what y'all think? I was all over the place but those are some things I'd like to see change if it was possible.
Microsoft and 343 made Halo the way that it is on purpose. All they care about is money. Whatever will give them that money is what Halo will be. Microsoft isn't against lying to us or using our nostalgia against us. They deceive and take advantage of us and we, the fans, allow this to happen. First it was with MCC, and how that broken pile of garbage was supposed to bring fans back after Halo 4 pushed away it's loyal fanbase in favor for newer, younger players. Then, Halo 5 came out advertised as a game with "Epic Battles" and "Epic Scales," as well as advertising our favorite character going rogue against the UNSC. These epic battles were just 12v12 pay to win microtransaction-filled shitfests, and the MASTER CHIEF vs UNSC HUNT bullshit never happened. Halo Wars 2 brought back the flood and classic graphics. These two things caused people to buy the game, but boy were they disappointed to find an unbalanced, boring pile of trashwith pay-to-win blitz modes. Now with Halo: Infinite, we see classic graphics once again and give 343 the benefit of the doubt after 4 games and 7 years of utter bullshit. Why? Why do we, the fans, allow this to happen? We need to boycott Halo and take a stand against Microsoft and 343. Want Halo to be better again? Make it Halo again.
Sprint feels a lot like a legacy of an older time. Like Bungie experimented with it as an armor ability in Reach, and 343 saw it was popular there for its simplicity and made it full time, but it still feels like this mismatched experiment. It feels like Bungie or Microsoft saw how it worked so well in the CoD series, which at the time had recently eclipsed Halo in sales and as king of the FPS market, and wanted to see how it might work as a mechanic in Halo. And it worked in small doses and when it could be swapped out for more interesting options, it was exceptional like a jetpack was. As a permanent feature though it still feels like a legacy of chasing then-modern FPS trends as an experiment, and it still feels like an experiment thats gone on too long because of how it disrupted that innate movement-combat synergy.
You're correct. Sandbox innovation is the way to go. Halo 3's equipment is a prime example. It was the best Halo multiplayer we've ever had because of its sandbox and innovation with Forge
Allow me to play devils advocate. "The new mechanics just change your strategy, and you have to weigh up options like the animation of camper in order to do well" I'm a day one (played since the launch of CE) player and I can see both sides of the argument. I yearn for the yesteryear of Halo, the nostalgia of playing Halo 2 (sorry 2 > 3 IMO), and having no issues with any of this. BUT I also enjoy the mechanics in H5, and it does freshen up the almost 19 years of Halo that I have played. Thing is, I remember this same argument when H3 brought equipment into the mix... people were furious. This all died down when Reach (maybe ODST) came out. I think the issue is the community.. we don't know what we want anymore because so many new games have come out and changed the way we play FPS in general.
The clamor is not better movement because they raised the height of the ledges in order to justify it. You used to be able to just jump up and not have to go thru BS animations stopping your shooting. Same with sprint, the base movement speed was slowed and the level lengths were increased because of it. Sprint and clamor are artificial “improved mechanics”. They actually hinder the player from shooting and throwing grenades.
I feel Sprint is a great gameplay mechanic; if the game is designed around it. Halo has nailed down its "formula" so to speak, probably peaking at 3 (though Reach though all its misgivings still was a great experience imo). The reasons why Halo 5 isn't liked as much as say, Halo 3 (though halo 5 seemingly has a better net code and gameplay features seen as a "staple" of modern shooters) isn't just pulled to that "nostalgia" factor, but something very simple. ABC gameplay, and flow. In halo, A Spartan will (probably) lose to a vehicle. A vehicle, then, subsequently has to lose to anti-vehicle weapons. That's what you could call an "ABC" or "Rock Paper Scissors" gameplay loop (its a bit more complicated, but you get my jist.) Subsequently, with "sprint", the use of vehicles for "rushing" is gone, and their overall effectiveness is dwindled. Why hop into a warthog when I can sprint to the power-weapon spawn and take it out before it reaches barely a quarter of the map. Thus, Spartans are more effective than vehicles, and the "ABC" gameplay loop is broken. Also, this breaks the game flow. No one wants an M32 rotary grenade launcher put into CS:GO. Why? Because it breaks the entire game. Equally, Sprint does this with Halo. Why? Because Halo was *never* designed with a sprint function. You can incorporate it, but now it breaks the game flow. Why spend all that time driving a ghost to a CTF point when sprinting gets you there faster, safer and quieter? Why drive a Scorpion when you can just sprint over to the power weapon and easily take it out? It ruins the whole flow of the game. This is why people enjoy Halos 1 - 3 more then Halos Reach - 5. I'm also not saying you can't enjoy Reach - 5, I thoroughly enjoyed Reach and Halo 5, but they are not my "top halo games". I think you'll find that sentiment from many. Needless to say, I'm not against games evolving their formula if it benefits the experience. Bad Company 2 was a great evolution from Bad Company 1. Halo 2 was a great (though rocky) evolution from Halo 1. However, the only time "armor abilities" really ever "worked" (and I use the term lightly if anyone else knows how horrible Halo 3's net code was) was in Halo 3, and even then, each "abilities" had a very specific counter. (bubble shield protected you from rounds and explosives, but a ghost could plow straight through it, for an example) yet there have also been issues with other armor abilities equally to sprint that didn't benefit the gameplay experience (take armor lock from Reach). Trying new things isn't a bad thing, but I'd take a standard Pep+Cheese Pizza over Cotton Candy and Blue Raspberry Pizza.
IMO Halo 5's mechanics created a higher skill ceiling (than the previous halo's) for competitive multiplayer at the expense of an overall great game. ShyWay has helped me enjoy the new mechanics, but thanks to the points you've made here, I get why the simple formula is better for Halo overall. Well done.
quicknfearless in the classic Halo, your abilities were: walk, jump, crouch, spring jump, nade jump, crouch jump. Right? All of those could be performed while shooting if you can claw the controller appropriately. Those 6 abilities are all present in Halo 5. The difference is that halo 5 added clamber, sprint, slide, Spartan charge, ground pound, thrust, and stabilize (7 more on top of the base 5). This created a new layer of gameplay mechanics, and also allowed for new combinations that could be learned (super jump, stabilize crouch jump, thrust slide jump), and that extra layer movement mechanics is why I think Halo 5 is more competitive.
Actually that pro league clip is just theater mode being absolute dogshit. To this day, 343 hasn't fixed that shit. I agree with the sniper AA thing but that clip was not evidence of it.
@Favyn I think you could add a sixth mechanic which is game rules. The bounds of which the other mechanics can operate within the context of the game simulation. This encompasses physics like the gravity & momentum, the damage & health, respawning etc. 1. Players, Sandbox, Environment, AI, Objectives are all affected by physics. 2. Players, Sandbox, AI are all affected by health & damage system. 3. Players, Sandbox, AI, Objective are all affected by the respawning system.
I love Halo 4 and 5. I also love the first three games and Reach. The issue i have is the storytelling and art style that breaks the continuity of the story and experience in the new games. Halo should be a gritty, action packed war story that revolves around the main character and their partner or team.
Armor abilities should be considered a powerup and pickup rather than something the whole game is designed around, to start with a loadout and balance the whole map around it. I liked this option in Reach's Forge. Not only would this allow the fundamentals of design be easier for the map, it gives the opportunity to make Armor Abilities more powerful and interesting to use, and even more incentive to, well, use your classic moon jumping to get around the map faster than your opponent.
I think one of the best things they could do to evolve gameplay is to take what Halo 3 did with the drop equipment and evolve it to a map based ability. Halo was always about map control. Make the maps interactive and you’ve evolved something that already existed. One example I would think of would be countering map abilities on each side of the map that teams fight for, like a healing bubble, some shield or shield EMP. Instead of it being a pickup, it turns into a map based ability. Fighting for sniper tower also turns into battle for shield tower or something of that nature. Perhaps a room that reduces or enhances speed with a sniper across the map that can easily target the slowed players but the reward for entering the slowed room is access to the invisibility or overshield to help counter. Maybe even a sword or shotgun.
Also, have the map abilities have cool downs, so that they aren’t always on but need to be activated and by activating the room, it grants access to power weapons. Risk/Reward factor.
This video is fucking amazing. It is structured so well and you also brought up so many great points. If I wasn’t already on the same side as you, about sprint and stuff, I 100% would be after watching this. Keep making great content like this!
To start the whole enhanced mobility thing works simply because it’s not about what you can do while moving around, it’s about how you move around, most of us can walk faster than babies run but does that mean we’re using enhanced mobility? Probably not, it’s no different in Halo, technically in bungie halos you’re always running but you can’t clamber over objects to reach positions a normal jump wouldn’t make, you can’t use the momentum of your running to propel you forward in a slide until friction makes you stop, Spartan charge is all thrusters so idc for it. As for sprinting to understand that sprinting is actually enhanced mobility compared to regular running you’ll have to know the difference between the two. I’m no dictionary but imo sprinting is life or death where as running is simply being in a hurry, running is you using the energy you have to get somewhere whole sprinting it’s using that adrenaline boost to push you beyond your normal limit. Sprinting, slide and clamber are welcome enhanced mobilities to me as long as they give Spartans the dexterity to aim while clambering, I mean I can understand having bad aim while sprinting because you need to have a specific balance while on the move or else you’ll fall but Spartans can flip tanks in the game I’m sure they can clamber with one hand and actually shoot in the other with good aim. On the topic of Halo and evolving, simply put to evolve you can’t be the same but you have to have traces of the past, Halo being a fairly simple game there’s not much you really can do to make it different without ducking everything up(as he said similar in the video) however if I could think of the best way I’d suggest taking out the enhanced mobility (except maybe clamber) in exchange for armor ability pick ups across the map like how active camp and over shield is. It’ll feel like Halo 3 with the item pick ups and such however these will be energy usage for example if someone picks up a jet pack they only have the fuel inside to use until it’s gone until respawn, if someone has hologram they can only use is 4 times before it’s depleted. This way every player is equally unless they chose to gain a temporary buff much like the different items and weapons across maps give. In my honest opinion I feel the Halo games won’t ever evolve well enough for the OGs fans to be satisfied with its evolution because if it changes movement if fucks up the maps and weapons and if it adds this little mechanic to the world is shifts the skill gap and messes something else up but if it stays the same players will be angered by 343 releasing the same game with a new story
@7:33 When players say "I love the new abilities we just need better maps" Those players are not technically wrong, that's the disgusting thing. The new abilities change Halo's Identity SO much that if they were TRULY 100% accommodated for in map design, then the maps and game-types would be so drastically different, you and I wouldn't even recognize them as Halo maps/gametypes. The issue is that the dev's changed the game so much, they created something brand new. Then, being tied to Halo's identity due to player expectation, they designed the maps to accommodate both the new mechanics and the old halo style, creating a half in half out lukewarm pile of crap. When you actually design for Halo 5's mechanics you will first and foremost have to eliminate "slayer" as game-mode. As H5's mechanics make it lean more towards a squad-objective based shooter rather then an arena-TDM based shooter. The maps will follow suit in that manner, as you will no longer have to worry about slayer whilst designing. What 343i did was design a squad-objective shooter and then try to make Halo arena-tdm shooter maps for it. An absolute joke.
Favyn, have you ever hear of the EFAP podcast? Mauler, Wolf, and Rags are fans of traditional Halo, and they spend their time making objective critiques and rebuttals on their podcast (largely centered around film and occasionally games). I'm sure they would love this video and your style of presentation. I would love to see you on EFAP one of these days!
Allowing a player to approach any one situation with a multitude of avenues without altering the player’s abilities allows players to approach situations however they wish, instead of intentionally or unintentionally streamlining it.
The old innovation was modular, we could have added more equipment, weapons and vehicles without changing core mechanics. Ads is cool if it doesn't effect your accuracy but visually it's nice, sliding is fine If you can still shoot and requires you to be moving downhill or be moving for a while as is clamber if you can still shoot.
Map design can still implement old Halo concepts like gravity lifts and teleporters and map control placements with the new game mechanics. Truth played amazing on Halo 5. Having the quick high clamber areas creates height advantage strategy. Halo 5 mechanics I think were key to bringing in modern mechanics to bring in the younger up and coming generations. I agree Halo 5 doesn’t play like the nostalgia of halo 3 or even Halo Reach days. But I think if they can bring back certain old Halo map concepts, art style, story line and keep certain H5 mechanics. It’ll be the best chance for Halo to continue to be a franchise game. Halo 5 brought a big improvement in Halos community from where Halo 4 left off. So you have to think of practicality for 343 as a business model. If they keep flip flopping on what they want to do for mechanics they are jeopardizing the population that they’ve rebuilt. Ive played halo since the beginning trust me I understand the nostalgia for old halo mechanics but unfortunately we aren’t the only player base anymore. So it’s important from a business stand point for the survival of Halo to implement stuff for the newer gaming generations. We are being selfish and entitled as OG halo players trying to force Halo to be what it was and not what it can be.
When it comes down to it you want to know you won a gun fight because you’re better than the other person much like csgo. Not because of some one button mechanic or because they ran away from the gun fight. Balance balance balance. Good vid as always brother
Fav you are correct about everything. Spartan abilities didn't help halo and I think that you understand how halo didn't need these features. Reach already introduced abilities that were a big success by we changed it which made halo fail.
I hope 343 watches this. Otherwise I guess I'm just gonna watch the cutscenes on UA-cam at release. Save Halo my friend. Also I have been super disappointed with the ai mechanics. Felt like killing robots, that's not Halo man
Easily my favourite video of yours. It explains things about Halo that I've never though about and I think looking at the old mechanics in this way makes them appear more excited to those that may have felt that the simplicity makes them boring.
In my opinion, the "grappling" on the ledges isn't bad. I would rather have that if it were either sprint or that. In my opinion that doesn't affect the gameplay really. It is balanced. You are vulnerable and if they add it (without thrusters) you can cancel it. Its not too hard and I would enjoy that. Honestly. The (what I like to call ledge save) does not affect the gameplay unlike of how sprint does. Thrusters are more of a boost to your destination, and a evade tactic. The grappling can work even with the classic map styles. It can still work most likely in my opinion. That's all I have to say. Thrusters just affect it a little, but it can be annoying. (Much rather have thrusters than Spartan charge right?) But you made a good video and one that actually makes sense. I had NO PROBLEM with the whole grappling on ledges thing when it was introduced. I really didn't. I've been a fan since halo CE all the way to 3 and so on, and I personally didn't think that mechanic was bad at all and ruined or "ruined halo" in any way. But I hated the way halo 3 seemed so slow with me. It's most likely the FOV. And for the argument with the grappling thing, I can see and agree with your argument and I won't argue with you on that. But it may be better to make the animation way faster. That could work.
Honestly in my multiple playthroughs of Halo 3 over the years, I've never known about that elevator for the Scarab mission, I would always just mongoose around with my buddies trying to see how far it can kick us off the map.
I hate to be the guy but, unless the TV show is a huge success and really drives the franchise, it's over for population count. Titles are already broadly unplayable in Europe, and certainly don't offer any value to purchase beyond game pass. I want to play Halo as it is and I can't even do that. The PC release is just making up for lost earnings. How heads haven't rolled is beyond me.
In my opinion those 5 mechanics listed were evolved in halo 5 I mean play warzone new player mechanics, new sand box mechanics, new environment mechanics, ai boss mechanics, and there’s multiple different ways to win a match (objective) if halo infinite is going back to slow clunky movement with no sprint then I probably won’t play it I love the old halos but traversing has always been my number one issue halo 5 is the only halo to get armour abilities or I guess spartan abilities right in my opinion. I want to feel like a super soldier while playing and the old halos never really delivered that feeling for me always felt like a tall dude that jumps really high and has a top speed of 2 km an hour I mean if everyone wants the old halo back the mcc has halo 1-3 so just play that it would be kinda silly for 343 to devolve what they’ve already created I would be fine with the removal of abilities like spartan charge and ground pound and thrust and just keep sprint and clamber but ever since halo 4 343 has made the biggest effort to let everyone know that Spartans have thrusters so it would be silly for them to go back to that old gameplay style
I think the issue is that Halo at its heart is more tactical, slow paced, and even a little cerebral at times depending on the objective and gametype. It's always leaned towards a blending of an arena shooter with tinges of old school Rainbow Six. Like, WAAAAAY back. The first one. Bringing modern Titanfall-esque twitch/stop-and-pop into it is the antitheses of the game's spirit. Halo would benefit more from shit like prone and lean than sprint and clamber. Evade is probably the least invasive/ fucky addition in Halo Reach-5. I enjoy the hell out of Halo 5. I can say I may have had as much fun in Halo 5 as I did from the hayday of 3. I still don't want its gameplay additions to survive the generational leap.
Think about this... 343I had ALL the resources, notes, everything... to make Halo 4. All they had to do, was LOOK at Halo 3, maybe Halo Reach (but primarily Halo 3). However, 343I decided to essentially throw away 10 YEARS worth of creation, and decide to make their own... coincidentally? It flunked... look at Halo 4, and Halo 5, and there is your answer. People calling for Halo needing change, you're both right, and wrong. The fact Halo changed the way it did for Halo 4 and 5, only destroyed the games. If 343I wanted to use new assets that was not in Halo 3, then they should have taken a closer look at Bungie's notes for Halo Reach, take a comprehensive understanding of the criticism of the game as well. Honestly... when I see a split in the community, people are shouting about the armor and graphics designs, some talking about how the game is played... only some are talking about the story of the games... like what Favyn has said: "Halo struggles to evolve, but it doesn't have to."
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
"So which one is truly enhanced mobility"
Damn, that question hit hard
Makes you realize mantling and the like aren't so much about us getting places we previously couldn't, but more about adding a sense of immersion to our movement since we feel as though we've moved our maximum amount we could've. But that trade-off comes at the cost of gameplay, because then it is designed with that in mind, so while an animation is added and a flow is somewhat broken, we don't genuinely access any additional locations.
Ironically Favyn, the scarab encounter is such a good example that even you sold it short. Your mission isn't to board the scarab to take it down, just to take it down. It may be insanely difficult, but you can kill it without even boarding it with a god-tier grenade throw or rocket shot. It's ultimate in its freedom of approach, it is the anti-set piece.
My thought exactly. "Kill the scarab" That is your objective! :D
One of the best things in halo campaign
I loved seeing that innovation from them back in the day. The jump in player interaction and sandbox utilisation between the Scarab fight in Halo 2 and this encounter in Halo 3 was remarkable.
@@tobsmonster2 and then you have that weird thing in halo 5 which is in the background all the time and in the end you just land on it.
I was recently replaying splinter cell chaos theory and it also has a ton of cool sandbox elements. Ones that might not even be apparent on the first playthrough. I love when games do that stuff, and it's something we saw more often in older games unfortunately.
Only thing I want to say:REQ system is the most disgraceful thing in the Halo franchise
Miles better then that gay gear box system in gears 4,even multiplayer mobile games aren't that scummy and manipulative
@@MGrey-qb5xz Wow Gay as an insult, is this 2009?!
@@Americanbadashh username checks out.
Loadouts, abilities, and ordinance in Halo 4 were worse.
@@GallowayJesse reach had three of those and yet people like you will defend that shit game.
I think this is your best Halo video yet. You've clearly explained why gameplay is more important than it seems on the surface, and why classic mechanics are better for Halo. Great work, Fav.
Its a bit one sided, like i halo 5 is not my favorite in the series but the multiplayer becomes more in depth when you know how much you can do in the movement, on the surface it looks like its making things easier for casuals but after seeing how much you can do with it its changed my opinion on the game all together, i don't think its a perfect game but i still think sprint, thrust and clamber has a place in the sandbox, if you look at how some maps in 5 can be traversed is absolutely unbelievable, the thing is i don't see a difference between that and all these trick jumps in the previous games, I'm not trying to seem like a 5 apologist but i think a lot of people that have the opinion that its mechanics don't belong are uneducated on the subject, i was of the opinion the 5 mechanics didn't belong but I've since changed my mind after realizing the full potential, this is coming from someone that has 4 as his favorite halo multiplayer, i had such a bitterness for 5 cause of all the shit i was being fed, don't be like the old me
@@JBzucc Bro at the end of the day the people who have been there since day 1 have a sense of what halo should look, sound and play/feel like. For me it's not a Bungie/343 thing either. Reach started it, and 4 and 5 has changed it all. All the newer fans who have been introduced to these "halo" games just don't have the same background to the series that we do. 343 felt that they needed to evolve Halo and they may have needed to in order to compete, but they didn't just evolve halo, they changed almost every last aspect.
While I love favn, I don’t see any suggestions; rather parallels that are great for how it should evolve but not how do we execute that in a literal do this sense.
I’m at least glad he acknowledges the fan base is to blame when it comes to their bitching about halo; in my eyes both 343 and the community are to blame equally in different ways. It’s like marriage, if you don’t communicate well, the relation suffers. Both parties have to talk through it....unfortunately that’s really hard when you have 7-9 million fans that all have different ideas and beliefs.
The only positive thing he could have really said about advanced mobility, is that it's fun. He explained why it limited the other four aspects of the gameplay experience. Or, more so, makes it harder to implement them well. It's all still feasible, with either classic or advanced mobility, but it's more difficult and less consistent with the latter.
I would personally like for Thrusters and Clamber to remain, just not Sprint. I don't often use it in Area, as I prefer to have my weapon up at all times, and have found my results to have improved since doing so. Of course, this then leaves me with stretched out maps, as I'm not travelling at full speed most of the time. It's all just personal preference though, at the end of the day. If I really really want a modern Halo game with classic mechanics in Multiplayer, I have Halo 2: Anniversary. But if Halo Infinite has advanced mobility again, I just really hope that Ground Pound and Spartan Charge aren't in Multiplayer...
@@Onlyinthe619 i get you, but I've been there since CE mate, ce is probably my favorite tied with 4 but i really dislike 2, 3 and reach for how much different reasons but i get you ay, its not the same but i still think there can be a place for enhanced movement, I'm not just someone that had 4 or 5 be his first halo
I was gonna say DOOM 2016 is a good example of a shooter without sprint
Or CS:GO. It just feels so refreshing and cool to do other things while running or jumping instead of being locked to an animation.
I say DOOM gets around not having a Sprint by being extremely fast pace. Doomslayer is never walking unless you make him walk, you always have this feel of extremely high speeds of movement. Older Halo's you feel extremely slow and cumbersome, if they do remove Sprint base movement speed should be increased. Definitely not to DOOM's speed but noticeably faster, as if always sprinting
ImpendingGhost no it doesn’t feel slow. As shown in the video since the maps are smaller you can get around faster.
They should increase the field of view, that's what makes it feel slow when walking. A wide field of view will make you feel like you're moving faster, a good example is halo ce vs. halo 3
@@raaaaaaaaaam496 Well, if Infinite turns out to be open-world as it's rumored to be, an increase in base speed may be necessary. Unless 343 comes up with a fast travel system like Zeta Halo's teleporter network.
I think the equipment pickups from halo 3 are underrated as to how much they kept the game fresh while still keeping the identity of halo in tact. It wasn’t as helpful for slayer, but for objective games equipment like the bubble shield revolutionized the dynamics of objective control.
For instance if in multi-flag, if an enemy team member was stole the flag and then died with the flag in the crossfire, a player could throw the bubble shield to protect his fellow players and help recover the flag. It wasn’t overpowered like armor lock and only lasted just enough time to give equal opportune time. If you needed to capture a territory or the bomb you planted you had a chance to use it to keep the enemy from bombarding you with grenades or if it became close combat with br’s you had a chance to try to time the grenade throw right and jump out of the bubble shield and hope they took the damage.
If players were being held down by a warthog, you could throw a power drain down to have one chance to quickly stun the vehicle if your plasma pistol couldn’t hit them, or if two team players came upon you out of nowhere, you had a slight window to quickly throw it and headshot them both in hopes of not being double teamed.
With regen you had a slight window to recover in a fight or hold the objective just that extra second longer needed.
Radar and flash equipment was pointless (but then again I use to think all the equipment was just there and not helpful at all for a long time, so who knows).
What do you mean? Halo’s combat is evolved...sorry I’ll leave
No, stay. That was rad lol
@Alex M,
Correct! This dude ain't shit. He's like Crapgamer.
This dude is about to make a living off Sony fans that hate Halo. Crapgamer, is trying to make a living off sony fans that hate XBOX.
Halos control is Superior to All FPS Games.
Now, I'll delete this dude, that his show never appears in my line ever again.
otherZinc I love halo, and it’ll always be my favorite game series, this guy has a point, open your ears, he is not talking trash on halo, he telling you why it can’t evolve to the next level and as a veteran I find that true.
@@zeeboss7553,
Ok, cool. He should try Killzone.
thank u
When you brought up the orange gel from Portal, I instantly pictured the grav lifts on Valhalla from Halo 3
Oh man how could I forget. They were such a great inclusion that made that fairly large map easily accessible in vehicle or on foot.
I think you meant blue gel, thats the one that bounces you back from the same momentum you landed on it with
@@Seedonator no i didnt mean blue gel. I meant orange gel.
@@adelaltamimi1279 oh k
I thought the same exact thing!
Halo's gameplay has a purity that I would compare to quake. Obviously they aren't very similar games but if they added things like ironsights and clamber to quake it would just be wrong. Even the newest quake still plays similarly to quake 1, if you got really good at quake champions you could probably pick up the old ones as well. But getting good at halo 5 won't make you good at the original trilogy, because it's so much different. I think halo is very much a movement shooter, and adding things like clamber and sprint that are basically just assists to make the game easier takes away what makes the game a movement shooter. I think that raw movement in games is always better than having abilities like clamber or automated rocket jumping (Overwatch). Innovate and improve on the dynamics, make it more smooth, don't change the games mechanics.
Ironsights in quake? Never played that game, but that sounds just wrong, you're damn right on that
One of the few channels where a half hour video doesn't feel like a drag. Great video as always!
Just ask yourself this. What would play faster, a game where you can move at top speed and shoot at the same time or a game where you're constantly forced to drop your weapon while moving around the map? Sprint, clamber and thrust aren't just illusions, they punish movement and all slow the game down.
And about the sandbox, 343 dug their own grave trying to balance auto aim and magnetism with 3 different movement speeds in the game (Normal, Thrust and Sprint). It's impossible, and the same goes for map design. You can only scale any bridge, room or jump for one movement speed. This means that any part of the map is going to feel wrong and play bad when traveling at a different one. And you can't really strike a balance either because that'll ruin the composition.
At the end of the day preferring Advanced Mobility or old school Halo is just a preference, but when all the top small team forgers (aka the best design minds in the community) claim Halo would do better without them you kind of have a problem.
Either way gun fights in halo 5 feel a lot faster (and in my opinion better) I love thrust and sprint I think it's great and really hope it's not removed.
Then I have to explain to them that I was once a retarded fanboy who kept playing that garbage because I was in denial. I was trying REAL hard to like that game. A few months in I ended up giving up because I could no longer stand 343 and their bullshit. And most of the games I played were just me boosting for unlockables. I barely played ANY legit matches in halo 4. You know you're not having fun playing the game when all you're interested in is grinding. If the game was actually good then you wouldn't feel the need to sit there grinding away because that's not actually playing. If the game was good you wouldn't see me talking shit about it all of the time on my channel right? Lol! If it was good then shouldn't I have played it as much as Reach, Halo 1-3, and even odst? Heck... I think I might have played halo wars 1 more than halo 4 lol. The only truly good thing about halo 4 is that it helped wake me up to bullshit in the gaming world and why I shouldn't trust 343. Perhaps they will get their shit together one day in the future (Not bloody likely since they love cod and micro transactions)... But for now I know for a fact that 343 blows. I wont give them a chance unless they do the following with halo 6...
Split screen
Tons of content
A great storymode
Sick visuals
Make the game hardly like cod and mostly make it feel like HALO
NO MICRO TRANSACTIONS!
Heck... Maybe they should also launch the game for 40 bucks instead of 60 as a means of apology for fucking us over with their lies for so many years? Heck I dunno... Give us something to make up for your shitty games right???
I'm pretty much 99.9999999999999999999% sure though that halo 6 wont pull off what I just wrote and that it will just be another generic shooter with micro transactions, lies, and codlike game play. I would love to be wrong but I'm probably right so you wont see me getting hyped lol. NOT... ONE... BIT.
ua-cam.com/video/VM4LXK-3fl4/v-deo.html
@HighEuphoria Perhaps you should fuck off back to 2007 and let him have his own opinion asshole; the og fandom really need to go outside, expose their vampire skin to the sun for first time in 12 years, stg it's like reinventing the wheel. If you think that him liking sprint and clamber is holding Halo back, your inability to tolerate other opinions and appreciate them is what is truly driving it into the ground
@@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY It's funny you say that about Halo 4 when it is just Reach with sprint. Then you want Halo to not feel like COD when it already doesn't come close to COD. You say you want it to feel like Halo but which one? They all feel different from each other be it CE's smaller sandbox and god pistol to H2's horrendous button combos and difficulty spike for legendary, H3 making the BR a projectile weapon and removing button combos from the game, ODST made you feel vulnerble and brought in a new perspective, and Reach expanding the sandbox by adding armor abilities (fuck armor lock). H4 really only adds sprint and you write it off just because it contains one mechanic that altered movement and gave players choice of moving faster in exchange of not shooting. You are just bored of Halo; if you're peak enjoyment of Halo was in 2007 then go back to that year and play it.We don't need Halo to become a re-release of H3 every 2 years like COD. Let the rest of us who are willing and want to see new things in Halo in peace.
343 is copying call of duty. It's lost its fanbase.
I’m still seeing that realism excuse around. “Makes me feel like a super soldier.” So super soldiers have to put their gun down while running, thrusting, climbing? Thought they were super soldiers, not average joes. Glad Doom knows what makes you feel “super”.
In Doom you have to lower your gun while climbing too luls
No I’m not blind to your overarching point, but it’s still not airtight
Resolute I never said Halo and Doom were the same. Doom never had crouch jumping or even jumping back in the day last I checked.
@@Nevirate I has in the 2000's.
They added evade, climbing and hook.
Looks nice.
Super augmentation is beside the point; However fast a person is when running without swinging their arms, they'll be faster when swinging their arms. It'a not about being "super", its an inescapable fact of how bipedal creatures move. Look at the robots being designed by the army. All their arms swing when running. There could be ways to implement a gun stabilization system, but not while the character holds the weapon in his hands.
So you want to climb without using a single hand? makes sense lol also you want shoot while sprinting? oh that wouldn't be overpowered, would it be? LMAO a Spartan are super soldier not a Thanos or Superman...
I really hope Halo Infinite is a true return to form. Classic is the only way to go. I hope 343 isn't just riding the nostalgia wave with just the art style. Amazing video!
Um...
Well....
Uh...
Yeah...
You see what happened was....
The fanbase is the reasons Halo struggles to evolve. The hardcore Halo community has more dislike for change than some 70 year olds.
Nah, it's just the way they did it. I'd love new halo games that "evolve" over time. Like I really love Reach, it added new things in a way that didn't change the core feeling that Halo gave. Halo 5 on the other hands, a game which tries to shove all of it down your throat at once. Which is exactly what Halo 5 did. When you play Halo you expect to play Halo. What you need to realize is that the older halo is what we kind of expected from Halo 5. Not CoD Advanced Warefare or Titan fall 2. If we wanted to play those games we would go and play those games. So we wanted to play Halo and the game just never released as a "Halo" game, you feel me?
That is from a game play standing though. Now this is where the true hardcore fan comes out instead of just a casual player.
The lore made no sense, the abilities came out of nowhere apparently Spartans never had them UNTIL now. Plot holes everywhere (unless you read the books)
@@fastmadcow Sorry for the late reply but plot holes have been with the series since day 1: halo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_inconsistencies_in_Halo
This is so good dude, seriously, WELL DONE!
I like the always guns up. Movement speed was perfect in the older Halo games, felt like I was playing Doom but more "realistic"
Halo 5 is my personal favorite and ive always wondered why people hated these abilities so much, despite me playing since Halo 2. This vid did a great job explaining what i had such a hard time grasping. As much as i love H5, i agree with every point you put forward. Great content!
I don’t like H5 at all and this comment is awesome . I also can understand why the multiplayer would be appealing for others.
I don't understand why they don't just increase movement speed and get rid of sprint like doom did if they want a faster pace
Joshua Quintero Exactly, ID Software did a nearly perfect job with Doom’s player movement.
@@DescendingBlade right? Plus it could help halo feel more fair because you would have a greater chance to dodge enemy attacks with skill instead of luck
I'm kind of torn on this. I'm a long time fan of the series, and I do enjoy the original more "simple" feel of the game. But on the other hand, I kind of want the game play that more closely resembles what Spartans are capable of. I mean, compare the way Chief and the other Spartans move and behave during cutscenes and other videos, to the way you move about in the Halo games (especially 1-3). There's a bit of a disconnect there. Chief should feel like playing a superhero, because for all intents and purposes, he is. Compare him to someone like Captain America, Chief is stronger and faster than Cap WITHOUT his MJOLNIR armor, and with it he's kind of a monster. I mean a Spartan's top speed is in the 50-60mph range, with a more average easy running pace of 30-40mph.
My point being, some of these abilities do call for a more dynamic and advanced gameplay, even beyond what we've had so far. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a game that truly feels like playing a Spartan, and I don't know if such a game could be fun and still feel at all like Halo. It's obviously a difficult task.
I feel the same way
If 343 started with classics gameplay in halo 4 they would be the biggest developer on earth by now.
Nah halo wars 2 is the best graphics
@Teh Modest Mouse Oh I thought the original comment what talking about graphics were the best but I thought the halo wars 2 graphics were pretty good because of their design
Then why is Halo 5 more popular then the entirety of MCC?
GamingTalk2099 1.its not and 2. That’s cause this game is a failed product
Teh Modest Mouse it is higher up on the list of most popular Game Pass downloads
There's nothing more frustrating than getting killed on halo 5 while being mid animation...
It’s sad that the best argument against this is, “idk I just like the new abilities :-)”
You probably only hear surface level arguments then
@@S1erra107 that's cause those are the only arguments that exist in favour of abilities.
Even those who can explain what they do to Halo in terms of gameplay are ultimately only left with the defense of "they like them because of these changes". Ultimately they are defending their enjoyment of them which was never up for discussion.
The discussion is "are they good for Halo overall?" And the answer is a resounding no because they objectively make other important aspects of Halo weaker just to accommodate them without them breaking the game.
Because it's all about them right?
See, you are ALREADY orejudiced against them,
What exactly is wrong with the idea of "players like these ew abilities".
I've checked out the OP videoes and his solution is always the same basically...
"Sandbox gameplay". Sandbox gameplay is basically map control which going by how well OTHER arena shooters are doing, isn't popular among the vast masses.
I do think a lot of the problems with Halo is the mistaken belief that player tastes don't change over time.
AllisterH Considering the majority of the community’s reactions, they’re not liking what they’re tasting now.
"Mechanically simple, functionally complex". That's what the first Halo games were.
No Sprint, no climb mechanic, mlg playlist, a good ranking system , br start, balanced power weapons, good maps, and now you got a Halo we can talk about and get excited about, until then piss off 343.
You mean Halo 3? Haven’t we already played that game? Halo Reach did a really nice job with its spartan abilities. Why do you want to start all over instead of trying to tweak and evolve what we have now?
@@andrewgallagher7690 it's like saying to csgo players let's put in Sprint for the heck of it and also let's put the slide mechanic in the game as well...you obviously don't because you would ruin the core experience of the game, just like what they did to Halo. Halo is too far gone and it can't be redeemed so it's pointless talking about it.
You sir, have almost changed my mind on this issue. Congratulations.
Thank you for your honesty. It's not wrong to like the new stuff, or even prefer it. It's just, we don't like being called nostalgic lol.
@@will_of_europa Like it really is a hard decision. Im such a Halo fanboy, but even I played the shit out of Halo 5 multiplayer (Im almost max level). Ive really gotten used to the sprint and clamber and I very much enjoy it. But I played through ODST literally yesterday and I was thinking to myself how great this felt, even if it felt a little slow. I don't think they will go back to original movement for Infinite, but I would like to see if they could find at least some happy medium.
@@Idontknowone1able Well said
Favyn this is probably your greatest halo video. Explained so concisely and the use of examples was great.
Unfortunately the higher ups at 343 are probably too stubborn to understand this and they will just take a few abilities out to ‘satisfy both sides’.
Oh my god you predicted the future.
@@halinaqi2194 Of course - it's pretty obvious (and really sad)
@@evolvedHE I was expecting the dreaded middle ground which is why I'll wait until extensive reviews are released about infinite to see if it's worth my money. I really hope it will be good but the clamber, sliding and sprinting has me worried.
Halo: Struggling Evolved
Bungie adds armor abilities in Halo reach: "Oh wow finally something new and innovative!"
343 Industries making some illumination changes: "tHis iSn'T hAlO aNYmOrE"
Did you miss all the hate the Armor Abilities got back then?
@@Vegeto30294 I was there, but then all the community started to accept them, to the point they qualify Reach as the best Halo.
Doom 2016 = The perfect way to evolve halo instead of chasing CoD trends
Doom 2016 had great multiplayer.
True but then it be just room clone
Apart from... Y'know... That loadout system.
Ironically DOOM has clamber and double jump. But yea I agree to an extent.
@@DreableNeebal10 The double jump didnt hinder me shooting. Clamber sure did.
Basicly Doom 2016 was mostly Run and Gun unlike something like Halo 5 which is Run OR Gun
Jesus that bullet magnetism
Fantastic video Favyn! I really appreciate this new direction because people are much more likely listen to and be persuaded by a reasonable guy than an angry shouty guy.
You should make like a one hour video lol. I’d watch it. Hell! I’d even share it to the one friend I have.
Boring.... Heard it all before. Another Halo 3 old fart. :)
tdsangell 🤨
I like Halo 5 pop but I wouldn't oppose 343i going back to the old gameplay in Infinite, but it sounds like they're going to have a happy medium of both styles
Hey Favyn, I love your videos and I agree with many of your points! But, could you maybe discuss the place of thruster pack in Halo, and its effects on core gameplay. Just the thruster alone, without sprint, mantle, and ADS.
Plus, if you think about it, you walk in classic games, only slightly slower than you sprint in newer games. They didn't add the ability to go faster. They added the ability to go slower, and removed the ability to go fast, and shoot simultaneously.
absolute madman, uploading at 3am
Summary
Map design problems
Sandbox complexity
Movement and accuracy
And the biggest problem; Fan base
We need to realise that shooters have evolved since Halo 3 and we can’t run away from sprint any more (irony not intended), custom load outs was a problem, never to return again as it unbalanced the golden triangle of Halo, but sprint can’t, and I am happy that people appreciate and are happy with the way movement, sprint, clamber and slide is integrated in Halo Infinite
It literally just because 343i are very bad developers. Nothing more. Nothing complicated. Nothing to even make videos about. It is simply because 343i is garbage. Nothing more. There is no such thing as Halo anymore. All us super fans came to peace with it. Halo sank with Bungie's ship. Like every good captain does. You go down with the ship. 343 just perverted Halo to make money which 343 even failed at doing that. Crooks.
Adding more dynamic functions to the maps would definitely be the best way to modify Halo in a way that could make everyone happy if done right
Halo wasn't simple for it's time. I remember getting into the passenger side of the warthog and was like wtf aren't I driving. It's simple now, but it wasn't for it's time.
In a base since it was
As a casual Halo fan who hasn't played the series since 4, I might have an explaination for their most recent design philosophy when it comes to combat. I know this might sound rich, but hear me out:
I remember some time before the release of Halo 2 flipping through those Halo Books, the Del Rey novels, and being absolutely amazed at the amount of lore given to the Spartans. The weapons, armor, how they trained children up to become augmented super soldiers, it made the likes of Master Chief seem like an indestructable terminator. Not that I could realize this as a young child, but looking back, it makes you wonder why the older games seemed way more conventional for the time, especially compared to games like Quake and Unreal, where combat was way more fast-paced and hectic.
It seems that the developers, as time went on, wanted to design the gameplay mechanics to better fit the lore of the Spartan super soldier more - to turn Halo into a Power Fantasy, where you are rampaging through the maps and levels at a breakneck speed (or what is percieved to be breakneck speed; as demonstrated in your linked video about movement speed).
Halo, for the most part, has always been sort of a power fantasy, but if you go back and play some Halo CE, both in the campaign and multiplayer, the Chief feels very slow and clunky, at least compared to the power-sliding, mantling, jetpacking Spartans of the more modern Halos. In Halo CE, you had just your basic walking speed, a moon jump, and a simple crouch mechanic that seemed only useful for crouch-jumping.
Im not trying to poo-poo on the older games; I strongly support the thesis that modern Halo has lost it's focus of design, but I can understand why the devs have made such an effort to make Spartans "feel" like super soldiers. Hopefully, with Infinite, they take a more core-design approach with it, and focus on what makes Halo the game series that it is.
I'm making an assumption but I have the bad feeling that the mcc and reach releasing on pc could be early damage control for if halo infinite is really bad.
Aye of Reach I don’t think it’s going to be bad per say. But I do think that MCC on PC is just throwing classic fans a bone and sticking with modern halo gameplay for Infinite
There's also Halo Wars 1 and 2
@@archerassassin8 I suppose so it just seems that everyone's forgotten that they've failed at almost everything so far.
@@ayeofreach doubt they'll fuck it up because if they do, they're the ones who are gonna be fucked
Lol 343i isn't a group of dummasses
I see that your ideas and analysis is more and more precise and interesting. The ideas proposed in this video greatly match reality and give a satisfying explanation to the state of the newer games!! I'm sold!
Simplicity is more than just beautiful, it's functional. Simple can be easier balanced, thus giving more time and resources to explore and expand/deepen all the other aspects the experience is made of. Having simple base mechanics makes it easier to create good maps and content as it's wayy easier to predict and test how players can interact with the environment. How convenient, it has room, time and resources left for innovation! It's for a reason that the simpler Halos had more content: they were simply easier to make, and thus efforts went into making it unique, fun and compelling instead of going in just making it work.
Hell I'm starting to understand what makes a good game! Thank you for your videos, and please keep making them; I want to understand further!!
OG halo struggles to evolve because it's already perfect.
@3:21 you nailed it. My own thoughts are that almost any change to be made to Halo makes it more generic, so it becomes more like other FPS than a Halo game.
Remember when 343 had an event where we could play multiplayer without enhanced mobility in Halo 5
It's there now! H3 Classic playlist with h3 forged maps give it a go! Competitive playlist as well
James Cussons oh Hallelujah
The thing that sucks is that Halo: Infinite is probably not going to take any of this into mind, it's still gonna have everything from Halo 5.
You might have already mentioned this in a sandbox video, but I find it interesting how the REQ weapons show hints of how the sandbox could evolve. Stuff like the energy swords that increase mobility and the guns that generate black holes. I distinctly remember playing husky raid and the mental flips and rethinking I had to do to fully utilize and learn these wacky new weapons. It’s amazing what one new weapon can do for a game-just look at Half-Life 2
I think the main problem with Halo as in all games in the series besides maybe Halo 5 was weapon balance literally just grab a br and you win sniper rifle in Rockets were also really good if you picked up any other weapon you lost. In Unreal Tournament you can do well with every weapon besides the pistol and it is also a map control based game I don't understand why the plasma rifle has to shoot so slow I don't understand why the shotguns range has to be the range of being right next to someone to kill them I don't understand why the assault rifles bullets just stop after like 25 feet in front of you. Halo's weapon sandbox needs reworked. Halo 5 didn't make it more fun by having a more balanced weapon system but that wasn't a classic Halo game and the overall art style Maps and weapons lacked substance in that game. I believe that changing the weapon balance bringing back the classic movement and making new memorable Maps and weapons with the classic art style I wouldn't make multiplayer feel like a brand new experience and could lead to what people consider the best Halo game of all time
The Sword and shotgun can be really powerful on the right map, also the carbine was usually slightly better than the BR just with less ammo available. So I think your point about weapon balance is a bit off, it depends on the game though, there were completely useless weapons like H2 Needlers. but in my opinion most weapons are pretty useful in most games, even assault rifles/ pistols if those are the starting weapons.
The sniper/ beam rifle is really overpowered though because it is effective at all ranges, but even then only if you have the skill to consistently land headshots so it’s not too bad.
On the sniper subject, I went from being garbage with the sniper in Halo 2 and 3 to being a headshot machine in Halo 5. It felt unearned because I knew it wasn't just me getting better.
I have honestly never played a Halo game and disliked it
Same but im not denial that Halo 5 advance movement is great, in a multiplayer aspect
My personal opinion is why they struggle to move forward is because the graphics don't look real enough, I think if Master Chief was to be able to do some different types of moves which include running on the wall ducking for cover like in Gears of Wars for example. Maybe have like different mechanics where he is able to do more with his armor suit and etc, I think would be totally refreshing. Having the enemy more engaged into the battlefield would be more realistic. I think the battlefield series it's a good example of how realistic there engine is and if it had something close to that I think it would gravitate to a bigger mass of gamers. But that's my opinion, I wonder what y'all think? I was all over the place but those are some things I'd like to see change if it was possible.
Microsoft and 343 made Halo the way that it is on purpose. All they care about is money. Whatever will give them that money is what Halo will be.
Microsoft isn't against lying to us or using our nostalgia against us. They deceive and take advantage of us and we, the fans, allow this to happen. First it was with MCC, and how that broken pile of garbage was supposed to bring fans back after Halo 4 pushed away it's loyal fanbase in favor for newer, younger players. Then, Halo 5 came out advertised as a game with "Epic Battles" and "Epic Scales," as well as advertising our favorite character going rogue against the UNSC. These epic battles were just 12v12 pay to win microtransaction-filled shitfests, and the MASTER CHIEF vs UNSC HUNT bullshit never happened.
Halo Wars 2 brought back the flood and classic graphics. These two things caused people to buy the game, but boy were they disappointed to find an unbalanced, boring pile of trashwith pay-to-win blitz modes.
Now with Halo: Infinite, we see classic graphics once again and give 343 the benefit of the doubt after 4 games and 7 years of utter bullshit. Why? Why do we, the fans, allow this to happen? We need to boycott Halo and take a stand against Microsoft and 343. Want Halo to be better again? Make it Halo again.
Sprint feels a lot like a legacy of an older time. Like Bungie experimented with it as an armor ability in Reach, and 343 saw it was popular there for its simplicity and made it full time, but it still feels like this mismatched experiment. It feels like Bungie or Microsoft saw how it worked so well in the CoD series, which at the time had recently eclipsed Halo in sales and as king of the FPS market, and wanted to see how it might work as a mechanic in Halo. And it worked in small doses and when it could be swapped out for more interesting options, it was exceptional like a jetpack was. As a permanent feature though it still feels like a legacy of chasing then-modern FPS trends as an experiment, and it still feels like an experiment thats gone on too long because of how it disrupted that innate movement-combat synergy.
Logan Corbett
So in a sense Call of Duty ruined modern day Halo? I can see that.
Can someone please send this dudes videos to 343 or better yet let him work for them?
Cody Berry cool, they will put this in the good idea jar at 343. Like where all of Ringo Star’s ideas went when he suggested stuff.
So concise, well thought out and intelligently demonstrated.. and so true.. I only wish 343 shared your understanding of Halo's base mechanics.
Devs: *introduces brand new mechanics*
The half of the community that doesn't like it: *Is this like a personal attack or something?*
You're correct. Sandbox innovation is the way to go. Halo 3's equipment is a prime example. It was the best Halo multiplayer we've ever had because of its sandbox and innovation with Forge
Extremely well structured video with lots of convincing points. Someone must have wrote lots of essays in high school lol
Allow me to play devils advocate.
"The new mechanics just change your strategy, and you have to weigh up options like the animation of camper in order to do well"
I'm a day one (played since the launch of CE) player and I can see both sides of the argument. I yearn for the yesteryear of Halo, the nostalgia of playing Halo 2 (sorry 2 > 3 IMO), and having no issues with any of this. BUT I also enjoy the mechanics in H5, and it does freshen up the almost 19 years of Halo that I have played.
Thing is, I remember this same argument when H3 brought equipment into the mix... people were furious. This all died down when Reach (maybe ODST) came out.
I think the issue is the community.. we don't know what we want anymore because so many new games have come out and changed the way we play FPS in general.
Halo’s gameplay does NOT need to evolve.
Inb4”nostalgiafag”
gafaigltson
The clamor is not better movement because they raised the height of the ledges in order to justify it. You used to be able to just jump up and not have to go thru BS animations stopping your shooting. Same with sprint, the base movement speed was slowed and the level lengths were increased because of it. Sprint and clamor are artificial “improved mechanics”. They actually hinder the player from shooting and throwing grenades.
Absolute madman, uploading at 9am
I feel Sprint is a great gameplay mechanic; if the game is designed around it. Halo has nailed down its "formula" so to speak, probably peaking at 3 (though Reach though all its misgivings still was a great experience imo). The reasons why Halo 5 isn't liked as much as say, Halo 3 (though halo 5 seemingly has a better net code and gameplay features seen as a "staple" of modern shooters) isn't just pulled to that "nostalgia" factor, but something very simple. ABC gameplay, and flow.
In halo, A Spartan will (probably) lose to a vehicle. A vehicle, then, subsequently has to lose to anti-vehicle weapons. That's what you could call an "ABC" or "Rock Paper Scissors" gameplay loop (its a bit more complicated, but you get my jist.) Subsequently, with "sprint", the use of vehicles for "rushing" is gone, and their overall effectiveness is dwindled. Why hop into a warthog when I can sprint to the power-weapon spawn and take it out before it reaches barely a quarter of the map. Thus, Spartans are more effective than vehicles, and the "ABC" gameplay loop is broken.
Also, this breaks the game flow. No one wants an M32 rotary grenade launcher put into CS:GO. Why? Because it breaks the entire game. Equally, Sprint does this with Halo. Why? Because Halo was *never* designed with a sprint function. You can incorporate it, but now it breaks the game flow. Why spend all that time driving a ghost to a CTF point when sprinting gets you there faster, safer and quieter? Why drive a Scorpion when you can just sprint over to the power weapon and easily take it out? It ruins the whole flow of the game.
This is why people enjoy Halos 1 - 3 more then Halos Reach - 5. I'm also not saying you can't enjoy Reach - 5, I thoroughly enjoyed Reach and Halo 5, but they are not my "top halo games". I think you'll find that sentiment from many.
Needless to say, I'm not against games evolving their formula if it benefits the experience. Bad Company 2 was a great evolution from Bad Company 1. Halo 2 was a great (though rocky) evolution from Halo 1. However, the only time "armor abilities" really ever "worked" (and I use the term lightly if anyone else knows how horrible Halo 3's net code was) was in Halo 3, and even then, each "abilities" had a very specific counter. (bubble shield protected you from rounds and explosives, but a ghost could plow straight through it, for an example) yet there have also been issues with other armor abilities equally to sprint that didn't benefit the gameplay experience (take armor lock from Reach).
Trying new things isn't a bad thing, but I'd take a standard Pep+Cheese Pizza over Cotton Candy and Blue Raspberry Pizza.
IMO Halo 5's mechanics created a higher skill ceiling (than the previous halo's) for competitive multiplayer at the expense of an overall great game. ShyWay has helped me enjoy the new mechanics, but thanks to the points you've made here, I get why the simple formula is better for Halo overall. Well done.
quicknfearless in the classic Halo, your abilities were: walk, jump, crouch, spring jump, nade jump, crouch jump. Right? All of those could be performed while shooting if you can claw the controller appropriately. Those 6 abilities are all present in Halo 5. The difference is that halo 5 added clamber, sprint, slide, Spartan charge, ground pound, thrust, and stabilize (7 more on top of the base 5). This created a new layer of gameplay mechanics, and also allowed for new combinations that could be learned (super jump, stabilize crouch jump, thrust slide jump), and that extra layer movement mechanics is why I think Halo 5 is more competitive.
Yeah, and it turned into a CoD clone.
Actually that pro league clip is just theater mode being absolute dogshit. To this day, 343 hasn't fixed that shit. I agree with the sniper AA thing but that clip was not evidence of it.
That was Observer Mode, not Theater. Observer Mode is in real-time unlike Spectator or Theater Mode.
@Favyn I think you could add a sixth mechanic which is game rules. The bounds of which the other mechanics can operate within the context of the game simulation. This encompasses physics like the gravity & momentum, the damage & health, respawning etc.
1. Players, Sandbox, Environment, AI, Objectives are all affected by physics.
2. Players, Sandbox, AI are all affected by health & damage system.
3. Players, Sandbox, AI, Objective are all affected by the respawning system.
That portal 2 example was absolutely perfect, as soon as i saw the propulsion gel i was like dude hes gonna use a sprint example here
Ironic since Halo 5 is more downloaded then MCC on Game Pass
Only because MCC still has a reputation for being a broken mess. Despite now being fixed for longer than it was ever "broken."
I love Halo 4 and 5. I also love the first three games and Reach. The issue i have is the storytelling and art style that breaks the continuity of the story and experience in the new games. Halo should be a gritty, action packed war story that revolves around the main character and their partner or team.
I feel the same
Released 58 seconds ago... nice
Armor abilities should be considered a powerup and pickup rather than something the whole game is designed around, to start with a loadout and balance the whole map around it. I liked this option in Reach's Forge. Not only would this allow the fundamentals of design be easier for the map, it gives the opportunity to make Armor Abilities more powerful and interesting to use, and even more incentive to, well, use your classic moon jumping to get around the map faster than your opponent.
I think one of the best things they could do to evolve gameplay is to take what Halo 3 did with the drop equipment and evolve it to a map based ability. Halo was always about map control. Make the maps interactive and you’ve evolved something that already existed. One example I would think of would be countering map abilities on each side of the map that teams fight for, like a healing bubble, some shield or shield EMP. Instead of it being a pickup, it turns into a map based ability. Fighting for sniper tower also turns into battle for shield tower or something of that nature. Perhaps a room that reduces or enhances speed with a sniper across the map that can easily target the slowed players but the reward for entering the slowed room is access to the invisibility or overshield to help counter. Maybe even a sword or shotgun.
Also, have the map abilities have cool downs, so that they aren’t always on but need to be activated and by activating the room, it grants access to power weapons. Risk/Reward factor.
This video is fucking amazing. It is structured so well and you also brought up so many great points. If I wasn’t already on the same side as you, about sprint and stuff, I 100% would be after watching this. Keep making great content like this!
more like halo: combat devolved am i right guys
n o
Nailed it 100%
To start the whole enhanced mobility thing works simply because it’s not about what you can do while moving around, it’s about how you move around, most of us can walk faster than babies run but does that mean we’re using enhanced mobility? Probably not, it’s no different in Halo, technically in bungie halos you’re always running but you can’t clamber over objects to reach positions a normal jump wouldn’t make, you can’t use the momentum of your running to propel you forward in a slide until friction makes you stop, Spartan charge is all thrusters so idc for it. As for sprinting to understand that sprinting is actually enhanced mobility compared to regular running you’ll have to know the difference between the two. I’m no dictionary but imo sprinting is life or death where as running is simply being in a hurry, running is you using the energy you have to get somewhere whole sprinting it’s using that adrenaline boost to push you beyond your normal limit. Sprinting, slide and clamber are welcome enhanced mobilities to me as long as they give Spartans the dexterity to aim while clambering, I mean I can understand having bad aim while sprinting because you need to have a specific balance while on the move or else you’ll fall but Spartans can flip tanks in the game I’m sure they can clamber with one hand and actually shoot in the other with good aim.
On the topic of Halo and evolving, simply put to evolve you can’t be the same but you have to have traces of the past, Halo being a fairly simple game there’s not much you really can do to make it different without ducking everything up(as he said similar in the video) however if I could think of the best way I’d suggest taking out the enhanced mobility (except maybe clamber) in exchange for armor ability pick ups across the map like how active camp and over shield is. It’ll feel like Halo 3 with the item pick ups and such however these will be energy usage for example if someone picks up a jet pack they only have the fuel inside to use until it’s gone until respawn, if someone has hologram they can only use is 4 times before it’s depleted. This way every player is equally unless they chose to gain a temporary buff much like the different items and weapons across maps give.
In my honest opinion I feel the Halo games won’t ever evolve well enough for the OGs fans to be satisfied with its evolution because if it changes movement if fucks up the maps and weapons and if it adds this little mechanic to the world is shifts the skill gap and messes something else up but if it stays the same players will be angered by 343 releasing the same game with a new story
@7:33 When players say "I love the new abilities we just need better maps" Those players are not technically wrong, that's the disgusting thing. The new abilities change Halo's Identity SO much that if they were TRULY 100% accommodated for in map design, then the maps and game-types would be so drastically different, you and I wouldn't even recognize them as Halo maps/gametypes.
The issue is that the dev's changed the game so much, they created something brand new. Then, being tied to Halo's identity due to player expectation, they designed the maps to accommodate both the new mechanics and the old halo style, creating a half in half out lukewarm pile of crap. When you actually design for Halo 5's mechanics you will first and foremost have to eliminate "slayer" as game-mode. As H5's mechanics make it lean more towards a squad-objective based shooter rather then an arena-TDM based shooter. The maps will follow suit in that manner, as you will no longer have to worry about slayer whilst designing. What 343i did was design a squad-objective shooter and then try to make Halo arena-tdm shooter maps for it. An absolute joke.
Favyn, have you ever hear of the EFAP podcast? Mauler, Wolf, and Rags are fans of traditional Halo, and they spend their time making objective critiques and rebuttals on their podcast (largely centered around film and occasionally games). I'm sure they would love this video and your style of presentation. I would love to see you on EFAP one of these days!
Allowing a player to approach any one situation with a multitude of avenues without altering the player’s abilities allows players to approach situations however they wish, instead of intentionally or unintentionally streamlining it.
i think its because Halos combat was already evolved
The old innovation was modular, we could have added more equipment, weapons and vehicles without changing core mechanics. Ads is cool if it doesn't effect your accuracy but visually it's nice, sliding is fine If you can still shoot and requires you to be moving downhill or be moving for a while as is clamber if you can still shoot.
This is the first video I have ever seen to properly explain how modern Halo gameplay changes the core game itself. My mind is blown.
Map design can still implement old Halo concepts like gravity lifts and teleporters and map control placements with the new game mechanics. Truth played amazing on Halo 5. Having the quick high clamber areas creates height advantage strategy.
Halo 5 mechanics I think were key to bringing in modern mechanics to bring in the younger up and coming generations.
I agree Halo 5 doesn’t play like the nostalgia of halo 3 or even Halo Reach days. But I think if they can bring back certain old Halo map concepts, art style, story line and keep certain H5 mechanics. It’ll be the best chance for Halo to continue to be a franchise game.
Halo 5 brought a big improvement in Halos community from where Halo 4 left off. So you have to think of practicality for 343 as a business model.
If they keep flip flopping on what they want to do for mechanics they are jeopardizing the population that they’ve rebuilt.
Ive played halo since the beginning trust me I understand the nostalgia for old halo mechanics but unfortunately we aren’t the only player base anymore.
So it’s important from a business stand point for the survival of Halo to implement stuff for the newer gaming generations.
We are being selfish and entitled as OG halo players trying to force Halo to be what it was and not what it can be.
Dude I hope more people hear of your content man, also hope to hear of another group podcast with the others xD
When it comes down to it you want to know you won a gun fight because you’re better than the other person much like csgo. Not because of some one button mechanic or because they ran away from the gun fight. Balance balance balance. Good vid as always brother
Fav you are correct about everything. Spartan abilities didn't help halo and I think that you understand how halo didn't need these features. Reach already introduced abilities that were a big success by we changed it which made halo fail.
I'd love to see a 343 dev to react to this
I hope 343 watches this. Otherwise I guess I'm just gonna watch the cutscenes on UA-cam at release. Save Halo my friend. Also I have been super disappointed with the ai mechanics. Felt like killing robots, that's not Halo man
omg, the portal example was so good
Easily my favourite video of yours. It explains things about Halo that I've never though about and I think looking at the old mechanics in this way makes them appear more excited to those that may have felt that the simplicity makes them boring.
In my opinion, the "grappling" on the ledges isn't bad. I would rather have that if it were either sprint or that. In my opinion that doesn't affect the gameplay really. It is balanced. You are vulnerable and if they add it (without thrusters) you can cancel it. Its not too hard and I would enjoy that. Honestly. The (what I like to call ledge save) does not affect the gameplay unlike of how sprint does. Thrusters are more of a boost to your destination, and a evade tactic. The grappling can work even with the classic map styles. It can still work most likely in my opinion. That's all I have to say. Thrusters just affect it a little, but it can be annoying. (Much rather have thrusters than Spartan charge right?) But you made a good video and one that actually makes sense. I had NO PROBLEM with the whole grappling on ledges thing when it was introduced. I really didn't. I've been a fan since halo CE all the way to 3 and so on, and I personally didn't think that mechanic was bad at all and ruined or "ruined halo" in any way. But I hated the way halo 3 seemed so slow with me. It's most likely the FOV. And for the argument with the grappling thing, I can see and agree with your argument and I won't argue with you on that. But it may be better to make the animation way faster. That could work.
the multiplayer in halo 5 was alrite but it wasnt to me a halo game hope this new halo actually is good
Honestly in my multiple playthroughs of Halo 3 over the years, I've never known about that elevator for the Scarab mission, I would always just mongoose around with my buddies trying to see how far it can kick us off the map.
You’re definitely spot on with halos need to be simple. H5 is nothing but complex and no noob can straight pick it up.
I hate to be the guy but, unless the TV show is a huge success and really drives the franchise, it's over for population count. Titles are already broadly unplayable in Europe, and certainly don't offer any value to purchase beyond game pass. I want to play Halo as it is and I can't even do that. The PC release is just making up for lost earnings. How heads haven't rolled is beyond me.
Trivium 🤘🤘
In my opinion those 5 mechanics listed were evolved in halo 5 I mean play warzone new player mechanics, new sand box mechanics, new environment mechanics, ai boss mechanics, and there’s multiple different ways to win a match (objective) if halo infinite is going back to slow clunky movement with no sprint then I probably won’t play it I love the old halos but traversing has always been my number one issue halo 5 is the only halo to get armour abilities or I guess spartan abilities right in my opinion. I want to feel like a super soldier while playing and the old halos never really delivered that feeling for me always felt like a tall dude that jumps really high and has a top speed of 2 km an hour I mean if everyone wants the old halo back the mcc has halo 1-3 so just play that it would be kinda silly for 343 to devolve what they’ve already created I would be fine with the removal of abilities like spartan charge and ground pound and thrust and just keep sprint and clamber but ever since halo 4 343 has made the biggest effort to let everyone know that Spartans have thrusters so it would be silly for them to go back to that old gameplay style
halo struggles to evolve because it already evolved in halo combat evolved
srry for my bad joke lmao
It's not a bad joke I laughed
Dude youve articulated this so perfectly. Well done
I think the issue is that Halo at its heart is more tactical, slow paced, and even a little cerebral at times depending on the objective and gametype. It's always leaned towards a blending of an arena shooter with tinges of old school Rainbow Six. Like, WAAAAAY back. The first one.
Bringing modern Titanfall-esque twitch/stop-and-pop into it is the antitheses of the game's spirit.
Halo would benefit more from shit like prone and lean than sprint and clamber. Evade is probably the least invasive/ fucky addition in Halo Reach-5.
I enjoy the hell out of Halo 5. I can say I may have had as much fun in Halo 5 as I did from the hayday of 3. I still don't want its gameplay additions to survive the generational leap.
Think about this... 343I had ALL the resources, notes, everything... to make Halo 4. All they had to do, was LOOK at Halo 3, maybe Halo Reach (but primarily Halo 3). However, 343I decided to essentially throw away 10 YEARS worth of creation, and decide to make their own... coincidentally? It flunked... look at Halo 4, and Halo 5, and there is your answer. People calling for Halo needing change, you're both right, and wrong. The fact Halo changed the way it did for Halo 4 and 5, only destroyed the games. If 343I wanted to use new assets that was not in Halo 3, then they should have taken a closer look at Bungie's notes for Halo Reach, take a comprehensive understanding of the criticism of the game as well. Honestly... when I see a split in the community, people are shouting about the armor and graphics designs, some talking about how the game is played... only some are talking about the story of the games... like what Favyn has said: "Halo struggles to evolve, but it doesn't have to."