One of the most enjoyable aspects of this discussion is watching them actively listening to each other - in general, you can see them actively listening and considering what’s being said - and not just waiting for their turn to talk to make their point. This was an excellent and enjoyable discussion that included relatively different points of view. “Please sir, can I have some more?”
Man, so glad this series exists. Always come away feeling more enlightened, and also frustrated that intelligent conversations like this arent happening elsewhere.
And the left is NOT SEEN as an obvious solution by a large cohort of the population. There is much work to do on genuine inclusion of a distrusting citizenry - tired of being considered a mining opportunity.
I didn't get the conflation of antisemitism with Israeli gov. criticism, tx, was drifting off there, because I thought, the left? what? YES you're totally on point.
This conversation illustrates so much. I have zero problem living in a society with people I don't agree with. I'm happy to debate them, work with them, have their candidates by my leader. I don't mind that at all. That's what a society is. What I won't stand for is people believing that other people don't have a right to exist, or to love who they want to love, or to receive healthcare, or to earn a livable wage. If you're a conservative, I will probably disagree with you about a lot of things. But if you're coming at the discussion from a place of genuine care for your fellow human being, and you just have a different idea on how we accomplish that same goal, then I'm more than happy to have that conversation. And I admit that there's a good chance I'll learn something form it and change my point of view. But if you support Trump. Then we can't have that conversation. Because we see the world in a vastly different way.
Watching this made me realize how much I really miss this type of intellectual discussion about these issues. So many of the "talking heads" today just engage in the rhetoric that bashes the other side without leaving any room for debate or compromise. Sad how so much of that went away just because a guy with brown skin got elected President.
@@gpclawmonkey We still know what the problems and can solve them. The ruling class has successfully turned us against each other to take large money donations and dark money for their own personal wealth.
“Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 + 2 makes 4”- 1984. The problem is that people who support can’t agree that 2+2=4, and they want to create a world where nobody can say that freely. I don’t have to humour someone who can’t agree on basic facts.
@gpclawmonkey I have so many thoughts on this. I think it stems from the fact that the way we arrive at a solution is ultimately informed by our unique perspective and worldviews. So to acknowledge that someone with a very different solution wants the same thing as you (a better future, broadly speaking) you have to acknowledge that there’s someone incomplete or missing from your perspective. This is of course true, there’s no way any one person could understand the billions of people on this planet and their situations. But it’s an inherently uncomfortable thing to acknowledge and it’s much easier to make yourself believe that the other person must want something entirely different to you. In this case republicans are so incapable of self reflection and introspection that they’ve convinced themselves everyone on the left are baby killing lizard people… a tad extreme but hey… what do I know 🦎
Jon made a point around the 25:30 mark. We dont have a labor valued economy. I think a lot of that has to do with Accounting. Labor is alway on the Liability side of a balance sheet. Shareholder value is the top priority and labor is the easiest thing to slash on the liability side to make the bottom line look better.
"not for profit" hospitals, do not still pay their workers better. And just make sure to ply profits into salary bonuses for management so the threshold for having to pay taxes is not triggered. Insurance. Holy hell what a mess. We pay for healthcare in taxes. And then pay again from our salaries. And then again as copays etc. And just the tip of...
That was an awesome show. I didn’t realize how interested in economics I was. I really love a good debate with respectful people from different sides of an argument or discussion. Thanks for bringing it to us all of you on the show 😁🤙🏼
I'd be FASCINATED to have someone explain to me how "worker productivity in the construction sector" is evaluated. I've worked in construction for 25 years both residential and commercial and a worker can do a lot more now in one day than back when I started in the industry. The only thing holding "productivity back" is a positive thing.. it is safety regulations and strict building codes that prevent buildings from falling over in hurricanes and earthquake. It is a higher build quality to deliver a premium product. That seems like a crappy metric and I love to hear how it is evaluated.
As an architect, I concur. Building departments are not letting people get away with cutting corners anymore, and OSHA is more regularly enforced. Both of which are good things.
I wanted to remark on this and I'm glad someone did. Also, I'm glad the dog whistle of blaming immigrant workers for lesser productivity in construction didn't happen, because any of us who've worked in construction can see how balls to the wall those folks work.
Should be watched by millions not thousands. Jon is an amazing host - intelligent, thoughtful, funny, and poignant with guests (even the snarky ones) and gets the most out of every show. Honestly, this show is a Godsend. Thanks to everyone who makes it happen.
I did not think I was gonna make one last comment before the end of this video. John, I got to tell you, the staff that you got is incredible. They are brilliant, fantastic very personable and they work well on video with you so kudos, sir for having a very astute staff. All three of these ladies are awesome, and if they are indication of the rest of the staff, then man what a powerhouse crew you have, sir
I really appreciated Jon highlighting the work of his researcher. She seems like a really interesting person to have a coffee with and learn random things about philosophy and politics
Thank you, Jon for recognizing and truly empathizing with the working class plight in our country today. I grew up poor, and watching my parents struggle financially made me determined to work hard in school to get a higher education in a job that has a good career outlook and pay in hopes of providing a better life for my children. Both my husband and I have college degrees and both work “well-paying” jobs, but we still feel like we cannot get truly ahead in today’s economy. Watching you and Bernie Sanders helps me cope with some of the stress because you both seem like two of the few people with a platform who truly understand what the working class is going through.
"No one in either party is going to question the leader of their party. That's just how party politics works." No, sir. That's how party politics "Doesn't" work.
The Democrats spoke up and got rid of our candidate for a better one. Don't try to clump us up with the no spine Republicans. Their shame is their own.
Donald Trump took over a whole political party with memes. One good Rosie O'Donnell meme, and a million bad memes that followed. Joe Biden became a meme after the first debate and... HE'S NOT THE CANDIDATE ANYMORE. There is no rules being used by these two parties. One is stumbling at democracy and one is flat out doing fascism.
@@MarkoD404 So you're saying that when a leader does well the party continues to support them, but when the leader gets a load of things wrong then their support falls away. How does that not agree with what @Mediatech492 and @Super-Visor420 said?
Increased productivity DOES NOT increase wages. It just means there are more suckers willing to do more in hopes to be properly compensated and always being disappointed.
@@tommcfadden5232I think profit sharing should be a mandatory aspect of employment. It’s pathetic, to me, that it’s not even mentioned. The workers get put on salary and that’s the end of OT pay or living wage.
Physically disabled east coast Canadian, and federal government employee who is a few months away from retirement. I love everything you do Jon ever since you started on the Daily Show. Keep up the good work, and I hope to see more of this type of respectful, civilized discussion between people with opposing viewpoints. Canadian politics are mundane compared to the US. (I love that about my country.) ❤
I entirely agree with your perspective that Jon has done some very amazing things, and continues to do so. On the matter of Canadian politics. I'm sure you have a very different perspective than myself (I'm on the west coast, only worked private sector), but PP, Danielle Smith, Scott Moe, Doug Ford, John Rustad,... to name a few seem far too exciting for me.
Canadian politics have been anything but mundane for the past several years now at minimum. This country is going through a major period of transition.
I’m a person that never took that “boring” economics class & I’ve been trying to catch up for years… I think it should be required coursework for all 12th graders, public, private & homeschool. This has been a great conversation- please continue having these two on!
I live in Uruguay where there is a 27% tariff. It sucks. Everything costs so much more. A tube of mascara that is $8.99 in the US is about $20 here. Then people try to pay less by ordering things and shipping them from abroad, so the government has to make a rule that each person can only receive 3 packages per year. It hurts regular people the most.
Oren has a massive blind spot where trump is concerned. If he can't see trump's anti worker, fascist bent, he's not but so smart. He has blinded himself. More Gillian please!
Trump isn't a fascist, he's nothing close to a fascist. You instantly lose when you call him such because you either don't understand his policies or you don't understand fascism.
Conservatives, regardless of intelligence, prioritize ideology over reality. Oren doesn’t want to believe Trump is the future of his party because it’s also the past of his party that the denial of is essential for the coherence of his project.
@@saintsfearful Alright so, not quite sure what you were trying to say with this one. "... because it's also the past of his party that the denial of is essential for the coherence of his project" surely doesn't make sense in terms of grammar as we understand the English language in 2024, however... To say "conservatives prioritize ideology over reality" may be true to the extent that any single human being prioritizes their ideas over the current moment in which they find themselves. However what is remarkable about conservatism, is that conservatives at their core believe something close to "how things existed in the past, I want them to continue existing that way in the future." In contrast, leftist and progressive types believe that "what exists now is not sufficient for how things ought to be, therefore we need to change cultural norms to fit (such and such agenda) into the current cultural moment (and therefore peoples' lives). The key takeaway here is that we need both left-leaning and right-leaning thinking, and when one side completely excludes the other (for stated reasons such as, "they are fascists", or "they are socialists", or "they are ideological idiots"), then the discourse quickly degenerates into a political power game where cogent arguments are no longer considered, and conclusions are assumed to be correct regardless of the evidence involved. The problem I have with leftists is that they seem to lie far more than conservative types do. For every example of 'misinformation' the left attempts to elucidate, there is usually a 2x or 3x worse example on the left-hand side of the equation. This is just my own observation as a moderate, the left is getting further left (as it has done for the last 60 years) while the rightly simply attempts to keep things where they are in this moment.
@@willashland4597 you fully lost me at “leftists lie more than conservatives”. The first sentence is completely grammatically correct. You’re completely delusional on this take and clearly a right winger, like every fake “moderate” that argues this nonsense.
@@saintsfearful Right, and like every leftist in modern history (since the French Revolution), you believe that anything outside of far-left revolutionary ideals is "right wing, anti-revolutionary, anti-communist activity". I am 100.0% sure that you will not be persuaded by anything, much less a random person responding to a comment on UA-cam. But remember that it is the modern left who embrace positions such as, "women are actually beings who are self-defined and have no basis in biological reality", and "the events on January 6th were the worst attacks on our nation since Pearl Harbor even though billions of dollars of damage was done by the George Floyd riots of 2020", or "Trump is a fascist because he loves America". The positions of the left are completely untenable. I understand their allure, but they are driven by deep psychological discomfort as can be seen by watching videos on many Kamala / pro-Palestine / pro-racial justice / pro-socialist commie bs, compared to moderates or right-wingers. The left in the USA has become almost every bit as revolutionary as the Bolsheviks in Russia in the late 1910's. It's remarkable to see people completely forget history in the service of their impossible ideals, truly extraordinary.
Oren is driving me nuts. Its like "Labor will make more when they produce more." thats all fine and good until the capital holders don't give a greater share to labor and instead keep it for themselves because, "The Market sustains a pay that is as it at, So I don't have to give them a greater share." It's is Ayn Rand 101. She pointed out the problem in Atlas Shrugged that Capital Owners keep the things for themselves and give those who labor a tiny amount.
@@tommcfadden5232 Marxist Communism has a lot of bad rap due to what men like Lenin did with it. He never wanted it implemented the way it was in the USSR. Hell, there was parts that were never meant to be implemented and they were just thought experiments and critiques. Disclaimer: I am no expert in it either, just a casual interest at best and would have to actually sit down for more information that I don't remember clearly. I only got more interest in him after finding out he had communication with President Lincoln.
@@wynnefox You should look into Mikhail Bakunin. He was a contemporary of Marx and predicted Marx's version of communism would lead to all the atrocities of the 20th century. It's common for Marxists to scapegoat people like Mao and Stalin to try and protect the ideology but the truth is that Marxism is the problem.
Raise their Taxes, and they'll put more money into the Company, to pay less taxes..since Employees are 100%+ tax deductible..under Obama it went up to 100%plus a $5000 credit per new hire, to recover from the "w"Bush debacle.
@@brianjennings7644 Fine, if that goes to the benefit of the company (and indirectly into the pockets of more employees) then at least that's better than just straight going into the pockets of the owner.
@@foobarbazbaa5598 that's literally how the '50s and '60s worked with 90% tax rates, their tax shelter 'was' their Company/Corp..back when we fought a 500,000+ US GI war AND walked on the moon, with an insignificant National Deficit, and University was basically free (room and board was the biggest cost)..it's how GM, Chrysler, RCA, Magnavox, American Steel, Hughes, IBM, etc. etc... became World Giants, with 1 worker families, and their paid off homes and autos, and Company Funded retirement plans.. ...and THEN we got Roni Raygun's Voodoo Economics, which made DEBT "Money" for consumers(Credit Cards were for ball players and movie stars) (real people had Certificates of Deposit at their Bank and mostly lived off it's interest, and paid for things in Cash) and Tax Cuts became "corporate profits" while Unions were killed off and it became a gladiator work force ..as he quintupilled (X5) the "National Debt"..and now we're here. (I watched, I voted for Jimmy Carter twice..not my fault.)🤠✌
@@brianjennings7644 Actually, I would repeal that one buried item in the Dodd-Frank bill. There used to be a limit on how much stock buyback that companies could do. That went away and R&D spending went down and stock buyback skyrocketed.
@@foobarbazbaa5598but you’ll hear those suck-ups say, “BUT THE RISK!!!” “The owners take ALL THE RISK!!!” “Pay them billions because of all the RIIIIIIISK!!!!”
Im so glad you're back Jon... as a 38 year old, i grew up on your humerous take on this crazy world we live in. Also, hats off for your effort on the PACT ACT. As a veteran who in 27 months of combat in Iraq, every single base i was at is on the registry, I'm sure i may need that in the future...
I live most of my life without validation. Even so, it felt good for Jon Stewart and his producer to acknowledge that people that didn't graduate college are not the pod people among you. I wanted to go to college but knew the kind of debt it would put me in would drown me. There are people that don't want to go to college, and are still skilled, still intelligent, capable contributors to society. The idea that people that don't or can't go to college deserve a lesser life is pervasive, and very much on both sides.
@lauraw.7008 a pod person is a sci fi/horror reference of people that look like everyone else but aren't really-- sometimes they're aliens, or clones, or body snatchers. They look like humans aren't the full human experience, which is how I feel people talk about the "less educated"
As a moron, and I probably did not hear it or maybe to tired to understand as I listening to this pod after work, that I did not hear the initial question as to why things are close answered. I learned much about economic perspectives in a Buckly-Vidal argument. But nothing answered the question. In my opinion, the podcaster in you gave us this. The comedian in you has most certainly a more defined answer. This was still great. Thank you for teaching me something.
It’s a sign of real intelligence and humility to continually deep dive into subjects that aren’t areas of strength. We all benefit from these subjects/discussions. 2:14 Also, yes, the reality TV star recognized the value of turning the national election into an episode of the Apprentice. That’s a dam’ing reflection on the US populace…
since im from Germany: i would love to see a conversation about the "need for a college degree" in the US and the A: Mostly Free Universities in Germany and the B: even stronger "Mittelstand" (Mid-Tier Businesses/Production) which relies heavily on Apprenticeship programs to educate their workers instead of requiring College degrees. Im pretty sure that there are some of those ideas beeing used in the US, but why not more? Why the stark NEED for a College Degree when Countries around the World, like Germany, show that is is NOT necessarily needed for a Strong Middleclass.
I have never enjoyed an hour of conversation about a topic I have 0 clue about. lol I mean I get some of it but a lot of it just went over my head. But again Jon, you bring people together and are so enjoyable watching. :) I might have learned something, just not sure what it is yet. Let me sleep on it.
I manage a company that produces goods for wholesale and retail. In 2019 and 2020 our production costs went up exponentially because we were importing packaging from China. (The packaging we're required to use wasn't made in the US.) We couldn't in good conscience pass those costs off to customers or other vendors, so we ate them. It took us 2 years to recover. I am not against tariffs, however tariff the goods we as a country produce here at home for those who choose to important them from outside the country anyway. It only hurts us to tariff goods we need to operate that aren't being produced in the US.
Conscience (noun): attention to right versus wrong. Conscious (adjective): aware. Important (adjective): impactful. Import (verb): bring in from elsewhere.
This show represents the hope I have the for the future of a sane US, where reality isn’t invented by madmen, and we have intelligent good faith people running things
The problem with Oren's stance is that so much is, "Well, lets get the fascist want-to-be-dictator in, we'll set things up by using him as a puppet and hope he doesn't break things, then afterwards we can have our ideals."
The problem with Oren's stance is that he wants his "new Right" to be something distinct from the MAGA Right, but the legislators who buy into his ideas _are_ the MAGA Right and the voters he would need to win to get his agenda into Congress _are_ the MAGA Right. Supporting a conservative candidate for economic reasons is inherently a tacit vote for fascism, and I don't know about the rest of the country, but that is never going to fly with me and most of the centrists I know.
There was a moment when they talked about immigration and corporations’ demands for more immigrants, and I’m disappointed that nobody pointed out the fact that corporations like immigrant workers because they can pay them less than Americans, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Don't forget the ones using child labor, and the Republicans in their red states that instead of stopping it choose to change their laws to make it legal.
I think that is built in to the debate there. That is the reason they want immigrants is that they can offer them less but that is the problem, they shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Yeah. One of the many things that 'gets me' is whenever I hear corporations say there's a labour shortage in the market. How could there be a labour shortage? What the heck is a labour shortage? "Oh we have 10 guys on the island, we don't have enough guys on the island building things for the island, so we need 12 guys on the island now in order to meet the ... demand.. of.. 10 guys?". Like what does it mean to say we have a 'labour shortage'? How could we not have enough people to build our roads and houses, grow our food, make our clothes, etc, when the amount of demand for that labour is directly proportional to population? I don't think we have 'labour shortages'. I think we have sometimes a skills shortage in some areas of the economy and sure as a *short term* fix maybe we need to *temporarily* import skilled folks from overseas to fill that (and we should absolutely have a plan to increase the amount of people developing those skills locally to avoid needing to import skills later on). But to me what 'labour shortage' seems to be pretty much code for is..... "the cost of labour is too high, we want more people in the country, so that there are more people who are unemployed, so that people are more desperate and we have more people to choose from, and people who are willing to work for less wages". In which case, just importing more people into the country constantly to flood the employment market with more people who need a job, to make workers cheaper for corporations, is definitely not making the economy work for people. Like all things, it's not black and white. I don't think the solution is to cut off immigration entirely, but I don't think our immigration goals should be decided by corporations.
College is awesome. Greedflated tuition is evil. We need more teachers and less lazy rivers. More classrooms and less sportsball stadiums. Cheaper textbooks and lower CEO pay.
@Jcewazhere yes! And higher Taxes on CEO compensation if it’s above a certain percentage above lowest paid members of community. Community College used to provide a really good education. Working in the same state where one went to school would each year reduce the amount of one’s loan if money was borrowed to attend the state school.
Well the reason textbooks are expensive is because there are a lot of people contributing to the book, all of whom need to be paid. That and the paper quality is far more resilient than a normal book. The question is, should students have to cover the entire cost- no. No they shouldn’t. I do agree that universities spend far too much on recreational facilities, which inflates the overall cost. Colleges and universities need to be subsidized way more- like they are in say, Sweden.
@@armie4172 This just isn't true. A decent majority of the textbooks used in school these days are "nth" editions of some textbook series, and the changes from one edition to the next are miniscule, largely existing solely to justify the publication of a new edition. In fact, I've seen examples where they will make changes in one edition, reverse them in the next, and then make the changes they made _again_ to repeat the cycle over again. Besides, your physics 101 textbook, for example, mostly comprises knowledge we've had for multiple _centuries_ at this point. It's not like they're rounding up a gaggle of experts to rewrite the section on parabolic trajectories every time. So no, the real reason that textbooks are expensive is capitalism. The publishers are in it to make money, just like every corporation is in business to make money. Some of them are monopolized, the rest are in cartels, and they can justify their price tag any way they see fit.
An absolutely wonderful conversation all the way around. Congratulations to John for moderating the conversation in the best possible way and kudos to the panelists for the intelligent and respectful discussion and debate.
When it came to the conversation of suppressed wages, Zachary really pinned the point on competition. Anti-trust not only suppresses innovation but also wages.
Master Jon, the public is CRYING out for more of this. Continue to show Americans that we can discuss these topics with civil discourse. It makes me realize how enslaved we Americans are to the branding of our politics. If the words "progressive" or "conservative" were never mentioned in this conversation, I wonder how open minded we all might be to accept new ideas to solve our problems. I wonder how our politicians might campaign, how we might vote, if we never branded them, Democratic or Republican.
Your team talking with you and the newbie is a testament to the quality of your questioning and content for people like me who know there are ways that can be fair for all, not just a few.
This is fast becoming one of the best podcasts around for discourse - it gives you hope for the future to see people with such different opinions talking to each other civilly and finding common ground
At 1:05:22 Jon says, "What [the GOP] is saying to corporate leaders is, AI will give you the opportunity to increase productivity without the tax of labor... which is mind-blowing." Reminds me of meeting a newly-hired CFO of an already over-corporatized university when I was a professor. He said, unironically, "Ideally, we could run this school most profitably if we could just get rid of the faculty."
You should ask the Democrats who "undermined democracy" after the 2016 election. I love how lefties just conveniently forgot that it ever happened, makes me laugh every single time
Immigration doesn't erode worker power or put downward pressure on wages when those immigrants are allowed to participate legally in the workforce. Forcing immigrants out of the legal labor market, out of unions, and into a shadow economy depresses wages for workers because you create a class of workers who don't have legal protections and can't participate in labor negotiation.
That's true to a point, but at least part of what keeps wages high is some amount of employee scarcity. I'll admit, I don't know what that is quantitatively, that's probably a great question for an economist.
@neversimon there isnt employee scarcity in the united states. In fact, we have too many overqualified but underemployed candidates in most fields and this problem has nothing to do with an influx of immigrants.
@@twyckoff87 That's a simplistic read on supply and demand that has never correlated with reality. Add those people to the legal workforce instead forcing them into a shadow economy of getting paid under the table at below minimum wage, and they can organize with other workers to demand better pay and conditions. Downward wage pressure is much greater from workers without legal status who can't complain to authorities about unsafe working conditions, wage theft, and below subsistence pay.
don't buy the inexpensive imported - lousy stuff - Buy the inexpensive suitably made stuff. vote with your wallet. Current hand power tools (most ) are better than anything made before - historically speaking - New dewalt is better than old craftsman. Honda is better than Brigs and Stratton.
@@warrenwalker8170 I hear you and agree it’s lucky that those things used by the trade’s especially have options with great quality. However many things used in households don’t have such choices. Many even at greater prices don’t last more than a couple years where the old counter parts lasted 10 years or more cannot be found. Repeat marketing equals more profits .
Love it. I wish all our political and economic policy discourse was just like this! Reminds me of when I used to have fun listening to and talking about these things.
Wow, so refreshing to hear some intelligent people have a civil, respectful discussion, staying on topic ,no name calling, no interrupting, listening to each other and explaining their points, this is how it’s done, kudos to Jon.
@anachronistofer thanks for your unwarranted hostility. You should make some friends, you're on the verge of becoming a very sad statistic :(
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If I understand it correctly, tariffs are supposed to encourage domestic production by making imports more expensive. Then we buy the now cheaper domestic goods and thus make it worthwhile for companies to keep investing in manufacturing and create lots of jobs. Sounds good in theory. In reality it's another trickle down dream. First we workers will have to buy at higher prices because those cheaper domestic goods don't exist yet. Then the new domestic goods will be neither better nor cheaper because the fact that we are now used to the higher price will be a wonderful reason to sell at the same price and make more profit for the shareholders. Rather than overturning Roe vs Wade, what should have been overturned was Dodge vs Ford.
Getting rid of that "fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders" crap, and also Citizens United, would be extremely helpful for the average citizens.
Well, overturning Roe certainly made sense. It is not a constitutionally granted right to end the life of a fetus, that should at best be up to each state to decide. I may disagree with abortion, and you may agree with it and call it something like "women's reproductive healthcare" or some other nonsense, but each state should be allowed to decide how it broaches the issue. That is the idea of the federalism under which we live.
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@@willashland4597 It should be up to each woman to decide what happens with her body because that's the idea of individual freedom, under which we live.
Am I the only person who thinks we don't need more housing, but instead need to change the tax structure to discourage speculation on housing? Consider the effect of giving new homebuyers $25K. This will increase the demand for housing and in turn increase the cost. I favor, over time, eliminating the deduction of home interest from income taxes. In addition we need to revise the investment aspects of home ownership for landlords. Investing in homes drives up the cost. We need home deflation to solve the housing crisis. We have about 15M empty homes and about 1/2M homeless. The problem is not a shortage of housing; the problem is that too many people are trying to make money from homes and the people who need them can't afford them.
As an office worker who didn't attend college, having no degree is absolutely an impediment to getting hired. With automation and AI in the application process, a lot of resumes don't even get seen by a hiring manager if they don't meet the search criteria. Without professional networking to circumvent that process, it's hard to get noticed.
Still cannot take Oran (? Sorry didn’t quite get his name) seriously after he equated denouncing a genocide war which happens to be by Israel as antisemetic. It’s ridiculous. The left doesn’t think all of Israel is a problem and certainly not the jewish people. We are disappointed that it seems like the current government has the broad support of the Israeli people after this genocide but the people aren’t the problem, it is the israeli government and their radical zionism that is the problem and it is not antisemetic to say so.
I absolutely agree with you! Even if fringe elements of the online left exist that believe in that way (I don't see them but that doesn't mean they can't be out there), they are certainly nowhere near as well represented as the fringe elements of the right when it comes to the current government. We have justices, legislators and presidential candidates who (charitably speaking) enable the fringe right. We denounce that type of thought every step of the way and still get accused of harboring comparable hatred. It's entirely unfair and needs to be acknowledged.
I mean, some of us do think all of Israel as it exists right now is a problem, and not just the government. From the multi-tiered citizenship system where Palestinians and Arabs are _constitutionally_ considered second-class; to the rampant settler culture that they foment, even encouraging Jewish people from the US to immigrate and help colonize Palestinian lands; to the jingoism and fanaticism of the IDF, even against its own Jewish citizens; to the way the US shields the state from any and all international accountability, shielding that Israel exploits at every point it can. These aren't problems that just go away if the Likud party and Netanyahu are removed from control, if they even could be removed from power at this point (another supra-governmental issue). These are problems baked into a settler-colonial project whose governmental constitution comes from the same era that gave us eugenics and global imperialism. You can see that reflected in the philosophies of the leaders, Jews and non-Jews alike, who created, encouraged and accelerated this project in the late-19th and early-20th centuries, and subsequently in almost every way Israel has conducted itself since. At its core, it is designed to be a belligerent ethnostate projecting military power into the Middle East at the behest of whatever "western" European power currently sits at the top of the hegemony. Israel does not function like a normal, rational international actor, and that will not change until the core philosophy of the country changes.
I live in Seattle and Boeing machinist’s are in the second month of a strike. They have not had a meaningful wage increase in 15 years. Plane quality has suffered because management is profit driven especially since merger with McDonald Douglas. The union let them kick the can down the alley with promises which never materialized and now the new boss is getting a $30 million dollar bonus. We will see….
Great conversation! It rocks when people with a similar goal but different perspectives can discuss the goal without the anger and hate but through civi, discourse. The ending discussion was equally great❤
One of the most enjoyable aspects of this discussion is watching them actively listening to each other - in general, you can see them actively listening and considering what’s being said - and not just waiting for their turn to talk to make their point.
This was an excellent and enjoyable discussion that included relatively different points of view.
“Please sir, can I have some more?”
Respectful conversation between two knowledgeable experts… is that even allowed anymore?
hearing Oren describe friedman as liberal instead of neoliberal was shlock.
I´m from central Europe and this style of discussion is still fairly normal here. It´s worrying that you need to point this out.
Holy crap. I had forgotten what intelligent civil discourse actually sounded like.
I was thinking exactly the same😊
That's kinda easy if all interlocutors basically agree on everything except some minor nuances. It's all neoliberal drivel start to finish.
Ditto
Discourse is one thing. Action at the state level is totally another. Pretty sure we will need good mentors at the national level.
It definitely doesn't involve vulgarities like you mention in your first sentence.
OMG, finally smart people discussing complex issues with thoughtful ideas. More please!
Man, so glad this series exists. Always come away feeling more enlightened, and also frustrated that intelligent conversations like this arent happening elsewhere.
Its as if a solely for profit economy is not only destroying our habitat but also the fabric of civic society. How peculiar!
Who could have predicted this!( Google “Carl Sagan’s 1995 prediction of America”)
And the left is NOT SEEN as an obvious solution by a large cohort of the population. There is much work to do on genuine inclusion of a distrusting citizenry - tired of being considered a mining opportunity.
So true!
Intelligent and refreshing. Thank you. Nationwide we need more of that.
I'm so sick of Israeli government criticism being conflated with antisemitism. It's so disingenuous and every media person is doing it.
I have noticed this, too.
I didn't get the conflation of antisemitism with Israeli gov. criticism, tx, was drifting off there, because I thought, the left? what? YES you're totally on point.
Same
It is though. Islam hates jews
And they should know better, all of them which wish to mask this genocide. They should no better or is it just our collective inconvenient truth?
I promote this show every week on my FB page. It is exactly the kind of conversation and topics that every citizen should be interested in.
Unfortunately, people would rather be entertained than informed.
Amen
@Alsad but trueex-js5lg
Yea but it’s kinda of boring, I do my bit by not voting for a right wing party
totally.
This conversation illustrates so much. I have zero problem living in a society with people I don't agree with. I'm happy to debate them, work with them, have their candidates by my leader. I don't mind that at all. That's what a society is. What I won't stand for is people believing that other people don't have a right to exist, or to love who they want to love, or to receive healthcare, or to earn a livable wage.
If you're a conservative, I will probably disagree with you about a lot of things. But if you're coming at the discussion from a place of genuine care for your fellow human being, and you just have a different idea on how we accomplish that same goal, then I'm more than happy to have that conversation. And I admit that there's a good chance I'll learn something form it and change my point of view.
But if you support Trump. Then we can't have that conversation. Because we see the world in a vastly different way.
Once upon a time, everyone agreed on what the problems were and the desired result. They disagreed on the solutions.
Watching this made me realize how much I really miss this type of intellectual discussion about these issues. So many of the "talking heads" today just engage in the rhetoric that bashes the other side without leaving any room for debate or compromise. Sad how so much of that went away just because a guy with brown skin got elected President.
@@gpclawmonkey We still know what the problems and can solve them. The ruling class has successfully turned us against each other to take large money donations and dark money for their own personal wealth.
“Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 + 2 makes 4”- 1984. The problem is that people who support can’t agree that 2+2=4, and they want to create a world where nobody can say that freely. I don’t have to humour someone who can’t agree on basic facts.
@gpclawmonkey I have so many thoughts on this. I think it stems from the fact that the way we arrive at a solution is ultimately informed by our unique perspective and worldviews. So to acknowledge that someone with a very different solution wants the same thing as you (a better future, broadly speaking) you have to acknowledge that there’s someone incomplete or missing from your perspective.
This is of course true, there’s no way any one person could understand the billions of people on this planet and their situations. But it’s an inherently uncomfortable thing to acknowledge and it’s much easier to make yourself believe that the other person must want something entirely different to you. In this case republicans are so incapable of self reflection and introspection that they’ve convinced themselves everyone on the left are baby killing lizard people… a tad extreme but hey… what do I know 🦎
Loved the fair and thought provoking conversation. Nice to have two people on opposite side of ideology speak to one another respectfully. Thank you.
Please don't stop the Weekly Show. Such a great, digestible listen on important topics.
Jon made a point around the 25:30 mark. We dont have a labor valued economy. I think a lot of that has to do with Accounting. Labor is alway on the Liability side of a balance sheet. Shareholder value is the top priority and labor is the easiest thing to slash on the liability side to make the bottom line look better.
I came for Ave Maria and I got politics.
Underrated comment
The video title was very misleading.
😅🤣😂👍
All jokes aside, Isao Tomita's version of Ave Maria is by far my favorite lol RIP
😂
Wow maybe the best podcast yet. Super high quality content
This was a rare treat. Kudos to Jon and the team for bringing these great minds together for such a captivating discussion-yes, an actual discussion.
Excellent discussion that actually makes economics relevant to real people .
Fantastic podcast again. Thank you Mr. Stewart et al for this.
I also think that education and other Public Good functions should be not-for-profit - including health care among others.
Yes. And why do we need insurance?
"not for profit" hospitals, do not still pay their workers better. And just make sure to ply profits into salary bonuses for management so the threshold for having to pay taxes is not triggered.
Insurance. Holy hell what a mess. We pay for healthcare in taxes. And then pay again from our salaries. And then again as copays etc. And just the tip of...
Ok there Lenin
Productivity is keeps us running after the brass ring instead of living our lives like people do in other countries. Hate that metric for success.
Amazing and enlightening conversation. Thank you all!
What s great balanced conversation with agreement and disagreement without total breakdown. This is how political discussions should look.
That was an awesome show. I didn’t realize how interested in economics I was. I really love a good debate with respectful people from different sides of an argument or discussion. Thanks for bringing it to us all of you on the show 😁🤙🏼
I'd be FASCINATED to have someone explain to me how "worker productivity in the construction sector" is evaluated. I've worked in construction for 25 years both residential and commercial and a worker can do a lot more now in one day than back when I started in the industry. The only thing holding "productivity back" is a positive thing.. it is safety regulations and strict building codes that prevent buildings from falling over in hurricanes and earthquake. It is a higher build quality to deliver a premium product. That seems like a crappy metric and I love to hear how it is evaluated.
What is the productivity cost of rebuilding whole neighborhoods?
That should be added into the calculations.
As an architect, I concur. Building departments are not letting people get away with cutting corners anymore, and OSHA is more regularly enforced. Both of which are good things.
I wanted to remark on this and I'm glad someone did. Also, I'm glad the dog whistle of blaming immigrant workers for lesser productivity in construction didn't happen, because any of us who've worked in construction can see how balls to the wall those folks work.
Should be watched by millions not thousands. Jon is an amazing host - intelligent, thoughtful, funny, and poignant with guests (even the snarky ones) and gets the most out of every show. Honestly, this show is a Godsend. Thanks to everyone who makes it happen.
I did not think I was gonna make one last comment before the end of this video. John, I got to tell you, the staff that you got is incredible. They are brilliant, fantastic very personable and they work well on video with you so kudos, sir for having a very astute staff. All three of these ladies are awesome, and if they are indication of the rest of the staff, then man what a powerhouse crew you have, sir
Does Oren realize how at odds his economic ideas are with the Republican party's platform?
AKA a pro-life democrat.
The GOP"s platform is literally just whatever DT wants on a given day.
@nickthaskater R U saying Democrats are against life?
I really appreciated Jon highlighting the work of his researcher. She seems like a really interesting person to have a coffee with and learn random things about philosophy and politics
It’s so refreshing to hear honest, respectful discussion and learn something!
Thank you, Jon for recognizing and truly empathizing with the working class plight in our country today. I grew up poor, and watching my parents struggle financially made me determined to work hard in school to get a higher education in a job that has a good career outlook and pay in hopes of providing a better life for my children. Both my husband and I have college degrees and both work “well-paying” jobs, but we still feel like we cannot get truly ahead in today’s economy. Watching you and Bernie Sanders helps me cope with some of the stress because you both seem like two of the few people with a platform who truly understand what the working class is going through.
Desire less - Lao Tzu
Where a person lives has an impact on the income a person generates, and the cost of goods and services.
"No one in either party is going to question the leader of their party. That's just how party politics works."
No, sir. That's how party politics "Doesn't" work.
The Democrats spoke up and got rid of our candidate for a better one. Don't try to clump us up with the no spine Republicans. Their shame is their own.
Donald Trump took over a whole political party with memes. One good Rosie O'Donnell meme, and a million bad memes that followed. Joe Biden became a meme after the first debate and... HE'S NOT THE CANDIDATE ANYMORE. There is no rules being used by these two parties. One is stumbling at democracy and one is flat out doing fascism.
Except the Dems did question Biden, and he’s no longer running, so Oren is just wrong.
@@Super-Visor420, that’s cause he failed miserably. If he was doing well, they’d be along for the ride.
@@MarkoD404 So you're saying that when a leader does well the party continues to support them, but when the leader gets a load of things wrong then their support falls away. How does that not agree with what @Mediatech492 and @Super-Visor420 said?
Increased productivity DOES NOT increase wages. It just means there are more suckers willing to do more in hopes to be properly compensated and always being disappointed.
Increased productivity may increase profits but rarely do increased profits lead to increased wages.
@@tommcfadden5232I think profit sharing should be a mandatory aspect of employment. It’s pathetic, to me, that it’s not even mentioned. The workers get put on salary and that’s the end of OT pay or living wage.
I love that you surround yourself with smart young women!! Good on you!!!
Jon’s *growl* at the mention of Jason Furman was so good hahah
Physically disabled east coast Canadian, and federal government employee who is a few months away from retirement. I love everything you do Jon ever since you started on the Daily Show. Keep up the good work, and I hope to see more of this type of respectful, civilized discussion between people with opposing viewpoints. Canadian politics are mundane compared to the US. (I love that about my country.) ❤
I entirely agree with your perspective that Jon has done some very amazing things, and continues to do so.
On the matter of Canadian politics. I'm sure you have a very different perspective than myself (I'm on the west coast, only worked private sector), but PP, Danielle Smith, Scott Moe, Doug Ford, John Rustad,... to name a few seem far too exciting for me.
Lol you can really tell when a Canadian doesn't pay attention to Canadian politics
Canadian politics have been anything but mundane for the past several years now at minimum. This country is going through a major period of transition.
I’m a person that never took that “boring” economics class & I’ve been trying to catch up for years…
I think it should be required coursework for all 12th graders, public, private & homeschool.
This has been a great conversation- please continue having these two on!
I live in Uruguay where there is a 27% tariff. It sucks. Everything costs so much more. A tube of mascara that is $8.99 in the US is about $20 here. Then people try to pay less by ordering things and shipping them from abroad, so the government has to make a rule that each person can only receive 3 packages per year. It hurts regular people the most.
Oren has a massive blind spot where trump is concerned. If he can't see trump's anti worker, fascist bent, he's not but so smart. He has blinded himself. More Gillian please!
Trump isn't a fascist, he's nothing close to a fascist. You instantly lose when you call him such because you either don't understand his policies or you don't understand fascism.
Conservatives, regardless of intelligence, prioritize ideology over reality. Oren doesn’t want to believe Trump is the future of his party because it’s also the past of his party that the denial of is essential for the coherence of his project.
@@saintsfearful Alright so, not quite sure what you were trying to say with this one.
"... because it's also the past of his party that the denial of is essential for the coherence of his project" surely doesn't make sense in terms of grammar as we understand the English language in 2024, however...
To say "conservatives prioritize ideology over reality" may be true to the extent that any single human being prioritizes their ideas over the current moment in which they find themselves. However what is remarkable about conservatism, is that conservatives at their core believe something close to "how things existed in the past, I want them to continue existing that way in the future."
In contrast, leftist and progressive types believe that "what exists now is not sufficient for how things ought to be, therefore we need to change cultural norms to fit (such and such agenda) into the current cultural moment (and therefore peoples' lives).
The key takeaway here is that we need both left-leaning and right-leaning thinking, and when one side completely excludes the other (for stated reasons such as, "they are fascists", or "they are socialists", or "they are ideological idiots"), then the discourse quickly degenerates into a political power game where cogent arguments are no longer considered, and conclusions are assumed to be correct regardless of the evidence involved.
The problem I have with leftists is that they seem to lie far more than conservative types do. For every example of 'misinformation' the left attempts to elucidate, there is usually a 2x or 3x worse example on the left-hand side of the equation. This is just my own observation as a moderate, the left is getting further left (as it has done for the last 60 years) while the rightly simply attempts to keep things where they are in this moment.
@@willashland4597 you fully lost me at “leftists lie more than conservatives”. The first sentence is completely grammatically correct. You’re completely delusional on this take and clearly a right winger, like every fake “moderate” that argues this nonsense.
@@saintsfearful Right, and like every leftist in modern history (since the French Revolution), you believe that anything outside of far-left revolutionary ideals is "right wing, anti-revolutionary, anti-communist activity". I am 100.0% sure that you will not be persuaded by anything, much less a random person responding to a comment on UA-cam. But remember that it is the modern left who embrace positions such as, "women are actually beings who are self-defined and have no basis in biological reality", and "the events on January 6th were the worst attacks on our nation since Pearl Harbor even though billions of dollars of damage was done by the George Floyd riots of 2020", or "Trump is a fascist because he loves America".
The positions of the left are completely untenable. I understand their allure, but they are driven by deep psychological discomfort as can be seen by watching videos on many Kamala / pro-Palestine / pro-racial justice / pro-socialist commie bs, compared to moderates or right-wingers. The left in the USA has become almost every bit as revolutionary as the Bolsheviks in Russia in the late 1910's. It's remarkable to see people completely forget history in the service of their impossible ideals, truly extraordinary.
We need more discourse like this. My thanks to all 3 of these gentlemen for elevating the discussion.
Oren is driving me nuts. Its like "Labor will make more when they produce more." thats all fine and good until the capital holders don't give a greater share to labor and instead keep it for themselves because, "The Market sustains a pay that is as it at, So I don't have to give them a greater share." It's is Ayn Rand 101. She pointed out the problem in Atlas Shrugged that Capital Owners keep the things for themselves and give those who labor a tiny amount.
No Marxist here. But I have read his critique of capitalism and he made this argument in 1859. This was 98 years before Atlas shrugged.
@@tommcfadden5232 Marxist Communism has a lot of bad rap due to what men like Lenin did with it. He never wanted it implemented the way it was in the USSR. Hell, there was parts that were never meant to be implemented and they were just thought experiments and critiques.
Disclaimer: I am no expert in it either, just a casual interest at best and would have to actually sit down for more information that I don't remember clearly. I only got more interest in him after finding out he had communication with President Lincoln.
@@wynnefox You should look into Mikhail Bakunin. He was a contemporary of Marx and predicted Marx's version of communism would lead to all the atrocities of the 20th century. It's common for Marxists to scapegoat people like Mao and Stalin to try and protect the ideology but the truth is that Marxism is the problem.
I wish this conversation with respect and honest debate... Would happen on the floor of Congress 😢
The problem is companies dont want to pay their employees, that want to pay their shareholders and ceos.
Raise their Taxes, and they'll put more money into the Company, to pay less taxes..since Employees are 100%+ tax deductible..under Obama it went up to 100%plus a $5000 credit per new hire, to recover from the "w"Bush debacle.
@@brianjennings7644 Fine, if that goes to the benefit of the company (and indirectly into the pockets of more employees) then at least that's better than just straight going into the pockets of the owner.
@@foobarbazbaa5598
that's literally how the '50s and '60s worked with 90% tax rates, their tax shelter 'was' their Company/Corp..back when we fought a 500,000+ US GI war AND walked on the moon, with an insignificant National Deficit, and University was basically free (room and board was the biggest cost)..it's how GM, Chrysler, RCA, Magnavox, American Steel, Hughes, IBM, etc. etc... became World Giants, with 1 worker families, and their paid off homes and autos, and Company Funded retirement plans..
...and THEN we got Roni Raygun's Voodoo Economics, which made DEBT "Money" for consumers(Credit Cards were for ball players and movie stars) (real people had Certificates of Deposit at their Bank and mostly lived off it's interest, and paid for things in Cash) and Tax Cuts became "corporate profits" while Unions were killed off and it became a gladiator work force ..as he quintupilled (X5) the "National Debt"..and now we're here. (I watched, I voted for Jimmy Carter twice..not my fault.)🤠✌
@@brianjennings7644 Actually, I would repeal that one buried item in the Dodd-Frank bill. There used to be a limit on how much stock buyback that companies could do. That went away and R&D spending went down and stock buyback skyrocketed.
@@foobarbazbaa5598but you’ll hear those suck-ups say, “BUT THE RISK!!!” “The owners take ALL THE RISK!!!” “Pay them billions because of all the RIIIIIIISK!!!!”
Great conversation, thank you to you and your guests.
I’m down for a 41 minute episode of Jons personal playlist and him swaying around
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 ... wipes tears off face, gets serious.... ah ahem, me too.
😂😂😂😂😂😂If he eats a gummy first. 😂❤😂
Im so glad you're back Jon... as a 38 year old, i grew up on your humerous take on this crazy world we live in. Also, hats off for your effort on the PACT ACT. As a veteran who in 27 months of combat in Iraq, every single base i was at is on the registry, I'm sure i may need that in the future...
Shiver shiver, pain.... ouch! Yes, totally felt that.
man this was a great watch. this kind of discourse is sorely needed in america
That was a very fascinating program. Thank you.
jon, you and your staff are killing it. i'm on board with direction you are heading. look forward to the next podcast.
I live most of my life without validation. Even so, it felt good for Jon Stewart and his producer to acknowledge that people that didn't graduate college are not the pod people among you. I wanted to go to college but knew the kind of debt it would put me in would drown me. There are people that don't want to go to college, and are still skilled, still intelligent, capable contributors to society. The idea that people that don't or can't go to college deserve a lesser life is pervasive, and very much on both sides.
@Justabadseed what’s a pod person (or who are pod people).
Recognizing that all jobs are important. If it’s something a wealthy person does not want to do, they sb willing to pay someone fairly to do it
@lauraw.7008 a pod person is a sci fi/horror reference of people that look like everyone else but aren't really-- sometimes they're aliens, or clones, or body snatchers. They look like humans aren't the full human experience, which is how I feel people talk about the "less educated"
I'm following this podcast from the other side of the world and I wanted to tell you: I love this show!
As a moron, and I probably did not hear it or maybe to tired to understand as I listening to this pod after work, that I did not hear the initial question as to why things are close answered. I learned much about economic perspectives in a Buckly-Vidal argument. But nothing answered the question. In my opinion, the podcaster in you gave us this. The comedian in you has most certainly a more defined answer. This was still great. Thank you for teaching me something.
It’s a sign of real intelligence and humility to continually deep dive into subjects that aren’t areas of strength. We all benefit from these subjects/discussions. 2:14 Also, yes, the reality TV star recognized the value of turning the national election into an episode of the Apprentice. That’s a dam’ing reflection on the US populace…
Thanks Jon
since im from Germany: i would love to see a conversation about the "need for a college degree" in the US and the A: Mostly Free Universities in Germany and the B: even stronger "Mittelstand" (Mid-Tier Businesses/Production) which relies heavily on Apprenticeship programs to educate their workers instead of requiring College degrees. Im pretty sure that there are some of those ideas beeing used in the US, but why not more? Why the stark NEED for a College Degree when Countries around the World, like Germany, show that is is NOT necessarily needed for a Strong Middleclass.
To keep poor people poor so corporations can farm them like cattle
I have never enjoyed an hour of conversation about a topic I have 0 clue about. lol I mean I get some of it but a lot of it just went over my head. But again Jon, you bring people together and are so enjoyable watching. :) I might have learned something, just not sure what it is yet. Let me sleep on it.
I manage a company that produces goods for wholesale and retail. In 2019 and 2020 our production costs went up exponentially because we were importing packaging from China. (The packaging we're required to use wasn't made in the US.) We couldn't in good conscience pass those costs off to customers or other vendors, so we ate them. It took us 2 years to recover.
I am not against tariffs, however tariff the goods we as a country produce here at home for those who choose to important them from outside the country anyway.
It only hurts us to tariff goods we need to operate that aren't being produced in the US.
Conscience (noun): attention to right versus wrong.
Conscious (adjective): aware.
Important (adjective): impactful.
Import (verb): bring in from elsewhere.
@@Roberta-q1q Yes. Yes. Thank you. 🙄
This show represents the hope I have the for the future of a sane US, where reality isn’t invented by madmen, and we have intelligent good faith people running things
Great talk today, thank you very much!
The dialogue and discussions in the chat are greatly appreciated and makes me feel like I’m back in college
The problem with Oren's stance is that so much is, "Well, lets get the fascist want-to-be-dictator in, we'll set things up by using him as a puppet and hope he doesn't break things, then afterwards we can have our ideals."
It's such an insane level of cognitive dissonance
The problem with Oren's stance is that he wants his "new Right" to be something distinct from the MAGA Right, but the legislators who buy into his ideas _are_ the MAGA Right and the voters he would need to win to get his agenda into Congress _are_ the MAGA Right. Supporting a conservative candidate for economic reasons is inherently a tacit vote for fascism, and I don't know about the rest of the country, but that is never going to fly with me and most of the centrists I know.
@@DenGleason Seems more and more like the American people value money more than democracy
Germany:
@@oceanecastelnau9821 Franz von Papen 1932: «Now we have him boxed in, lets use him» about Adolf Hitler
There was a moment when they talked about immigration and corporations’ demands for more immigrants, and I’m disappointed that nobody pointed out the fact that corporations like immigrant workers because they can pay them less than Americans, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Don't forget the ones using child labor, and the Republicans in their red states that instead of stopping it choose to change their laws to make it legal.
Well said
I think that is built in to the debate there. That is the reason they want immigrants is that they can offer them less but that is the problem, they shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Yeah. One of the many things that 'gets me' is whenever I hear corporations say there's a labour shortage in the market. How could there be a labour shortage? What the heck is a labour shortage? "Oh we have 10 guys on the island, we don't have enough guys on the island building things for the island, so we need 12 guys on the island now in order to meet the ... demand.. of.. 10 guys?". Like what does it mean to say we have a 'labour shortage'? How could we not have enough people to build our roads and houses, grow our food, make our clothes, etc, when the amount of demand for that labour is directly proportional to population?
I don't think we have 'labour shortages'. I think we have sometimes a skills shortage in some areas of the economy and sure as a *short term* fix maybe we need to *temporarily* import skilled folks from overseas to fill that (and we should absolutely have a plan to increase the amount of people developing those skills locally to avoid needing to import skills later on). But to me what 'labour shortage' seems to be pretty much code for is..... "the cost of labour is too high, we want more people in the country, so that there are more people who are unemployed, so that people are more desperate and we have more people to choose from, and people who are willing to work for less wages".
In which case, just importing more people into the country constantly to flood the employment market with more people who need a job, to make workers cheaper for corporations, is definitely not making the economy work for people.
Like all things, it's not black and white. I don't think the solution is to cut off immigration entirely, but I don't think our immigration goals should be decided by corporations.
This should be obvious to everyone, but the modern left keeps "forgetting" this.
Thank you Jon...really...thank you for doing such a great job engaging us in the great experiment in the way only you can.
College is awesome.
Greedflated tuition is evil.
We need more teachers and less lazy rivers.
More classrooms and less sportsball stadiums.
Cheaper textbooks and lower CEO pay.
I want waterparks :(
@Jcewazhere yes! And higher Taxes on CEO compensation if it’s above a certain percentage above lowest paid members of community. Community College used to provide a really good education. Working in the same state where one went to school would each year reduce the amount of one’s loan if money was borrowed to attend the state school.
And more tech and trades schools, LOTS of them.
Well the reason textbooks are expensive is because there are a lot of people contributing to the book, all of whom need to be paid. That and the paper quality is far more resilient than a normal book. The question is, should students have to cover the entire cost- no. No they shouldn’t. I do agree that universities spend far too much on recreational facilities, which inflates the overall cost. Colleges and universities need to be subsidized way more- like they are in say, Sweden.
@@armie4172 This just isn't true. A decent majority of the textbooks used in school these days are "nth" editions of some textbook series, and the changes from one edition to the next are miniscule, largely existing solely to justify the publication of a new edition. In fact, I've seen examples where they will make changes in one edition, reverse them in the next, and then make the changes they made _again_ to repeat the cycle over again. Besides, your physics 101 textbook, for example, mostly comprises knowledge we've had for multiple _centuries_ at this point. It's not like they're rounding up a gaggle of experts to rewrite the section on parabolic trajectories every time.
So no, the real reason that textbooks are expensive is capitalism. The publishers are in it to make money, just like every corporation is in business to make money. Some of them are monopolized, the rest are in cartels, and they can justify their price tag any way they see fit.
An absolutely wonderful conversation all the way around. Congratulations to John for moderating the conversation in the best possible way and kudos to the panelists for the intelligent and respectful discussion and debate.
When it came to the conversation of suppressed wages, Zachary really pinned the point on competition. Anti-trust not only suppresses innovation but also wages.
Master Jon, the public is CRYING out for more of this. Continue to show Americans that we can discuss these topics with civil discourse. It makes me realize how enslaved we Americans are to the branding of our politics. If the words "progressive" or "conservative" were never mentioned in this conversation, I wonder how open minded we all might be to accept new ideas to solve our problems. I wonder how our politicians might campaign, how we might vote, if we never branded them, Democratic or Republican.
Imagine a world where our political leaders had these kinds of conversations.
Your team talking with you and the newbie is a testament to the quality of your questioning and content for people like me who know there are ways that can be fair for all, not just a few.
The first guy lost me immediately when he said Reagan's policies were good.
He said some of the policies he had was good.
Way to prove your shitty listening comprehension.
So I guess you stopped listening right before his next sentence, which was "at that time, for a limited time only" ? That's on you.
@@SuperPol1981 Sounds about right for the average attention span these days.
@@SuperPol1981 it wasnt good then either though.
This is fast becoming one of the best podcasts around for discourse - it gives you hope for the future to see people with such different opinions talking to each other civilly and finding common ground
At 1:05:22 Jon says, "What [the GOP] is saying to corporate leaders is, AI will give you the opportunity to increase productivity without the tax of labor... which is mind-blowing." Reminds me of meeting a newly-hired CFO of an already over-corporatized university when I was a professor. He said, unironically, "Ideally, we could run this school most profitably if we could just get rid of the faculty."
😢which is pretty sad, when you think about it.
Amen, Jon! We (Canada) just reached our highest level of inequality ever. It's not been fun lately... Great conversation!!
Thank you for bringing civil discourse back! Living these bipartisan discussions!
As republicans undermine confidence in democracy how will that effect our economy and wages?
You should ask the Democrats who "undermined democracy" after the 2016 election. I love how lefties just conveniently forgot that it ever happened, makes me laugh every single time
Immigration doesn't erode worker power or put downward pressure on wages when those immigrants are allowed to participate legally in the workforce. Forcing immigrants out of the legal labor market, out of unions, and into a shadow economy depresses wages for workers because you create a class of workers who don't have legal protections and can't participate in labor negotiation.
That's true to a point, but at least part of what keeps wages high is some amount of employee scarcity. I'll admit, I don't know what that is quantitatively, that's probably a great question for an economist.
@neversimon there isnt employee scarcity in the united states. In fact, we have too many overqualified but underemployed candidates in most fields and this problem has nothing to do with an influx of immigrants.
@phydeaux01 Of course it does. Supply and demand.
@@twyckoff87 That's a simplistic read on supply and demand that has never correlated with reality. Add those people to the legal workforce instead forcing them into a shadow economy of getting paid under the table at below minimum wage, and they can organize with other workers to demand better pay and conditions. Downward wage pressure is much greater from workers without legal status who can't complain to authorities about unsafe working conditions, wage theft, and below subsistence pay.
Increasing the pool of workers puts downward pressure on wages…whether or not those workers are “legal” or “illegal”.
Cheap stuff is all well and cool but I long for the time when we could get real long lasting quality goods , made here, even if it cost more.
don't buy the inexpensive imported - lousy stuff - Buy the inexpensive suitably made stuff. vote with your wallet. Current hand power tools (most ) are better than anything made before - historically speaking - New dewalt is better than old craftsman. Honda is better than Brigs and Stratton.
@@warrenwalker8170 I hear you and agree it’s lucky that those things used by the trade’s especially have options with great quality. However many things used in households don’t have such choices. Many even at greater prices don’t last more than a couple years where the old counter parts lasted 10 years or more cannot be found. Repeat marketing equals more profits .
Excellent discussion. Thank you.
Spit out my drink when you said we could listen to Ave Maria. 😂
This was a great discussion. These guys made great points. There is no easy solution, but it's great to hear these perspectives.
Love it. I wish all our political and economic policy discourse was just like this! Reminds me of when I used to have fun listening to and talking about these things.
Wow, so refreshing to hear some intelligent people have a civil, respectful discussion, staying on topic ,no name calling, no interrupting, listening to each other and explaining their points, this is how it’s done, kudos to Jon.
We are living in a dystopia.
One of the most intelligent discussions on economic policy that I've heard in a long time.
I didn't even know this channel existed. What a pleasant surprise.
Yeah, me either. Saw it on my home page when the one before this was posted. Looks like the algorithm is sharing it around.
Yes each week…it’s so good ❤
Last week was one of favorites explains the election process very well
Thanks for sharing your delight. Very insightful.
@anachronistofer thanks for your unwarranted hostility. You should make some friends, you're on the verge of becoming a very sad statistic :(
If I understand it correctly, tariffs are supposed to encourage domestic production by making imports more expensive. Then we buy the now cheaper domestic goods and thus make it worthwhile for companies to keep investing in manufacturing and create lots of jobs. Sounds good in theory. In reality it's another trickle down dream.
First we workers will have to buy at higher prices because those cheaper domestic goods don't exist yet. Then the new domestic goods will be neither better nor cheaper because the fact that we are now used to the higher price will be a wonderful reason to sell at the same price and make more profit for the shareholders.
Rather than overturning Roe vs Wade, what should have been overturned was Dodge vs Ford.
Getting rid of that "fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders" crap, and also Citizens United, would be extremely helpful for the average citizens.
Well, overturning Roe certainly made sense. It is not a constitutionally granted right to end the life of a fetus, that should at best be up to each state to decide. I may disagree with abortion, and you may agree with it and call it something like "women's reproductive healthcare" or some other nonsense, but each state should be allowed to decide how it broaches the issue. That is the idea of the federalism under which we live.
@@willashland4597 It should be up to each woman to decide what happens with her body because that's the idea of individual freedom, under which we live.
Am I the only person who thinks we don't need more housing, but instead need to change the tax structure to discourage speculation on housing? Consider the effect of giving new homebuyers $25K. This will increase the demand for housing and in turn increase the cost. I favor, over time, eliminating the deduction of home interest from income taxes. In addition we need to revise the investment aspects of home ownership for landlords. Investing in homes drives up the cost. We need home deflation to solve the housing crisis. We have about 15M empty homes and about 1/2M homeless. The problem is not a shortage of housing; the problem is that too many people are trying to make money from homes and the people who need them can't afford them.
Thank you for giving us a window into a sane conservative point of view.
As an office worker who didn't attend college, having no degree is absolutely an impediment to getting hired. With automation and AI in the application process, a lot of resumes don't even get seen by a hiring manager if they don't meet the search criteria. Without professional networking to circumvent that process, it's hard to get noticed.
Yep even many low level jobs want people with degrees now
Still cannot take Oran (? Sorry didn’t quite get his name) seriously after he equated denouncing a genocide war which happens to be by Israel as antisemetic. It’s ridiculous. The left doesn’t think all of Israel is a problem and certainly not the jewish people. We are disappointed that it seems like the current government has the broad support of the Israeli people after this genocide but the people aren’t the problem, it is the israeli government and their radical zionism that is the problem and it is not antisemetic to say so.
I absolutely agree with you!
Even if fringe elements of the online left exist that believe in that way (I don't see them but that doesn't mean they can't be out there), they are certainly nowhere near as well represented as the fringe elements of the right when it comes to the current government. We have justices, legislators and presidential candidates who (charitably speaking) enable the fringe right.
We denounce that type of thought every step of the way and still get accused of harboring comparable hatred. It's entirely unfair and needs to be acknowledged.
Maybe I’m reading you wrong but the left? Trump and Bibi are birds of a feather. ??
I mean, some of us do think all of Israel as it exists right now is a problem, and not just the government. From the multi-tiered citizenship system where Palestinians and Arabs are _constitutionally_ considered second-class; to the rampant settler culture that they foment, even encouraging Jewish people from the US to immigrate and help colonize Palestinian lands; to the jingoism and fanaticism of the IDF, even against its own Jewish citizens; to the way the US shields the state from any and all international accountability, shielding that Israel exploits at every point it can.
These aren't problems that just go away if the Likud party and Netanyahu are removed from control, if they even could be removed from power at this point (another supra-governmental issue). These are problems baked into a settler-colonial project whose governmental constitution comes from the same era that gave us eugenics and global imperialism. You can see that reflected in the philosophies of the leaders, Jews and non-Jews alike, who created, encouraged and accelerated this project in the late-19th and early-20th centuries, and subsequently in almost every way Israel has conducted itself since. At its core, it is designed to be a belligerent ethnostate projecting military power into the Middle East at the behest of whatever "western" European power currently sits at the top of the hegemony. Israel does not function like a normal, rational international actor, and that will not change until the core philosophy of the country changes.
People are taking home more but having to spend more for less. Consumer debt has reached record levels. I would think Zack would know this.
Knowledgeable and Decent Podcast. Great work Sir!
So good.
Wow, two amazing people. Thanks for the great conversation.
Jon out here with the jump scare at the start of the Halloween episode
love your work Jon, watching from Adelaide South Oz
This is insane. Tariffs are bad whether they're "left" or "right." It's good to at least hear Jon challenging them
We don't buy Chinese cars. They're a tool that can be used well or poorly.
Tariffs are a tool. Sometimes it makes sense to use that tool, but no tool is the go-to for every job.
Wow! Thanks for this thoughtful intelligent podcast!
I live in Seattle and Boeing machinist’s are in the second month of a strike. They have not had a meaningful wage increase in 15 years. Plane quality has suffered because management is profit driven especially since merger with McDonald Douglas. The union let them kick the can down the alley with promises which never materialized and now the new boss is getting a $30 million dollar bonus. We will see….
Great conversation! It rocks when people with a similar goal but different perspectives can discuss the goal without the anger and hate but through civi, discourse.
The ending discussion was equally great❤
Time for action though, I hope the next four years with Kamala we’ll see a New Deal happen.
Baffling. That’s the right word.