Follow Up On EXPENSIVE AXE BUYER'S GUIDE, Controversy, Afterthoughts, (Okay, MAYBE Buy One ;)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 вер 2017
- Following up on the video about buying expensive axes. Just some clarifications and thoughts.
Support on / skillcult has been critical in keeping me experimenting and making content. If you want to help me help others, this is probably the best way to do it. Thank you Patrons for supporting the mission!
Buy less, but buy it through my links! Shopping through my affiliate links generates revenue for me, at no extra cost to you, click links here, or go to my Amazon Store page: skillcult.com/amazon-store/ But seriously, buy less, do more.
Standard gear I recommend. I either use or have used all of it.
Council Tool Boys Axe: amzn.to/3z0muqI
Bahco Farmer's File: amzn.to/3Hbdhij
King two sided sharpening stone: amzn.to/32EX1XC
Silky f180 saw: amzn.to/3yZzM71
ARS 10 foot long reach pruner: amzn.to/3esETmM
Victorinox grafting/floral knife: amzn.to/3Jki1E9
Wiebe 12” fleshing tool: amzn.to/3sB0qSl
Atlas Elbow Gloves: amzn.to/3FwB5g6
BOOKS:
The Axe Book, by Dudley Cook: amzn.to/32kx7sN
Bushcraft, by Mors Kochanski: amzn.to/32q2rpT
Subscribe to my channel for more insightful Self Reliance related content: ua-cam.com/users/skillcultsubs... Click the bell icon to be notified of new content. Subscribing doesn’t mean that much on it’s own.
Blog and website: www.skillcult.com/blog
Instagram and Facebook @SkillCult
IMHO, "Hammer Forged", is the correct term for Gransfors Bruks axes. As opposed to "Hand Forged".
Hi Steve. This was an interesting video follow up to the previous one...re: Cheap axes/hatchets as opposed to the more expensive brands.
I subscribed to you’re channel just recently.
I agree 100% on you’re comments. I first started using a small hatchet at age 7, now 67😀. I have never owned a “reputable brand” axe or hatchet. To this day, l still use these tools. For the last 29 years l’m still using cheaper brands of axes, hatchets and splitting mauls, along with chainsaws for felling and cutting up timber. Sometimes l think, maybe l’ll buy myself a top brand axe and hatchet but being Scottish, l don’t like spending too much of my hard earned money! I might just keep on fixing up my old “el-cheapo’s.😀
I get a lot of satisfaction buying second hand axe heads and fitting them up with good ol’ wooden handles that l reshape to fit. They’ve served me well over the years. The old axe heads are usually of good quality steel, with a reasonably high carbon content.
Thanks for posting up good common sense advice, hopefully people take on board you’re sensible comments.
Brian, from Australia...”Down-Under”😀👍
This isn't in the first two comments and I'm lazy...
Amish craftsmen... Laser cutting a logo into an axe handle? So some kind of horse-drawn wood gear laser? :D
lol.
I'm really enjoying your channel Steven. You tell it like it is, you are passionate about your craft and you can actually swing an axe like nobody I have ever seen. Very efficient style! Keep up the good work man! Cheers from Brisbane, Australia.
I bought a council axe and am very pleased with it. The slender handle is great. It was made by vampires. I think they were Mennonite.
My biggest reason for not buying new axes at all is that a bazillion good quality axes were made in the early to mid 1900's, and most of those axes still exist. There is no shortage of good quality, USA-made vintage axe heads at garage sales and flea markets. They're fun to restore, and many of them have lots of life left. Even the economy axes of the 50's and 60's (like the Kelly Woodslashers which I see all the time) are lightyears better quality than the stuff in the hardware store today. I feel a duty to rescue old axe heads that are subject to abuse (use as a splitting wedge) after they lose their handles.
So true.
"I woke up at 5 o'clock in the morning hearing dragging noises... it was my pissed hippy neighbor whom I badmouthed in previous video dragging his all 3 expensive axes to prove me wrong" :-)
Ha ha. Hilarious. :)
My neighbors are all millionaire white SJW’s. They don’t know how to do anything involving labor themselves, but want everyone else to limit their use of the planet. Most don’t know anything about anything, which makes you wonder how the got the $ to begin with. Had
Snakebite in the dark would truly suck. I'm liking these last two videos, I've been noodling around in my head about making a video response, something about trying to make a back of the envelope calculation of what an axe is worth intrinsically, one day's wage? Two days wages? A weeks wages?
That is a very interesting question. Think of old times and the expense of iron, let alone a piece of steel to put in the bit and what a farmer would have to pay, or do to get one. You may have read the story in The Scythe Book about a farmer commissioning a scythe blade from a blacksmith and having to chop some ungodly sounding amount of wood, but the smith assures the farmer that every blow of the axe will be matched by the blow of a hammer. Such a hard question to answer with insanely different ways you could cast the perspective.
I thoroughly enjoyed both videos. I'm loving your channel man. Native Californian here too. This heat has been incredible. Good cool day today though. Thanks for all the effort in the videos! Peace
Still over 100 here and even smokier! This too shall pass.
I agree with your Homesteading philosophy for sure. I think how you promoted getting the vintage and haft the handle people can get a nice plum for $20-$59 I agree with your getting back to your roots brother. I started on search and rescue at the age of 13 and was a Wildland Hotshot Sawyer for 20 years and15 years ago I purchased an off the grid ranch/ Homestead in the rockies of Colorado at 9000ft where I stilllive in a small cabin and thoroughly enjoy using more primitive tools like chisel and carving axes to make the stuff on my land that I need from fence tk corals ,I started selling my custom Designed hand carved Timber Products and furniture a few years back. When I made the switch fro Wildfire Firefighter to carpenter/artisan I purchased a disgusting amount of Gandfors bruk axes at 2 preach model and when I had locked them up at my dad's house si ce my cabinetry unlocked when we took a vacation the same time framey dad decided to take a vacation as well and those thousands of dollars literally of grandsons bruk axes were stolen and while my dad's insurance company was amazing they wouldn't replace the axes because I used them for work and would have had tk had specific business insurance to be reimbursed for all my axes and I didn't know that at the time I now absolutely have all my tools insured as to hell with those who are grimey enough to boost or steal a man's tools. Whe I did repurchase 5 grandsfors bruk axes that I use daily. While I admit that I have a bit of an addiction for purchasing vintage axe heads. Which I pay anywhere from $20-$59 and same thing as collectors axe heads minus their logo being in pristine condition and would rather use a plum to do my custom Carvings or a plumb as or a Collins rockaway or jersey for my wedge banger for my daily work for my arborist business. Now chainsaws is a different story used Husqvarna for 20 years and when I took a new paid Wildland Firefighter position they had both stihl and Husqvarna and I only used the Husqvarnas, when started my Arborists business two years ago I switched over to stihl 201t and 66R magnum and I have literally not had any issues providing that I run the saw for 30 seconds and then fl throttle them to tune them to the altitude I am working at where as with Husqvarna I would purchase new run it one time and then need to no matter what have to rebuild the carb on it. I went into great length to explain my thoughts and how much use I have had with using axes and I didn't agree fully with your comments from the previous video but do very much so agree with your philosophy and your thoughts in this video. Also wanted to explain my tenured experience with axes and that I also am Homesteading and was taught when I was around 7 (I am 43 now) by my father that there is no reason to pay another man to do something that you can learn to do by researching and reading a few books. Being internet wasn't big until after he taught me that and is still the philosophy I live by today and heard a interesting fact a few years back. If the electrical grid was to crash by emp or another reason that 70% of people would die in the first two weeks and I think that is sad we have as a society have grown so far from being in tune with the earth and how to survive that flipping a light switch or heat via thermostat has become so the norm for most of society that they would not know how to survive without it and that especially in today's world is extremely fucked. Since we are closer to having a issue of significance in which majority of of civilization cod die off because TV, video games and cell phones are to important to people and survival has be kme a second thought until its going to be too late for most
The first video I saw of yours was the one before this one. I like it and this one, too. Thanks for the videos and the time you put in. I’m now subscribed and will be watching more.
Thanks and welcome :)
Good info all the way way around. Excellent followup.
Hey Steven, Im in the process of making a handle for for a hatchet. Your channel have inspired me to go for it, so thanks!
Cool!
Thanks to your knowledge and videos went out and cut up this seasoned black locust log I had and carved a handle out of it, it is really janky but it feels really good using my old carpenters hatchet with a homemade handle.
That's great! It can be hard to work dry, not just the hardness and hammering your tools, but it is somewhat prone to tearouts. Love the wood though.
I knew what you ment in the last video Steve. I believe you are doing a great service in a world of lost craft, arts and skills. Indeed, whatever a person can do, no matter where they live, is the thing that will change to world. Thanks mucn! Davey b
You have serious skill with pitching that axe. Ive been hand fitting axes togeather now for probably 6 or 7 months, absolutely love it. I like straight vintage heads. But i also get out and use and test my own quality, i enjoy it very much. Like you vids!
Fun timess!
Love your channel. I would say that your content is some of the most in-depth on the topic of axemanship. As a firewood junkie I'm looking to learn the skill of axemanship and woodsmanship in general. Right now Im still at the chainsaw, hand splitting stage but lovin' it (never thought I'd say that). I was able to get to 100% wood this year with both the wife and I working full time and a toddler (it wasn't easy). There is just very little in-depth content outside of The Axe Book and Woodsmanship. I look at some of these guys on YT, and its obvious they don't know what they're doing. Thats why the chordwood challenge is so great because it forces you to hone your skills. The problem is if you doing the wrong things you hone the wrong skills and in this case could cost you your life. I'm really looking forward to your STATE series. I think there is a real need for something like that and should boost your viewership. Anyways thanks for the great content!
Thank you. Firewood cutting and splitting is addictive. Part of the reason I do the cordwood challenge is to push not just individuals, but the whole internet axe community to step it up. I don't want people watching that stuff and thinking that is how it's done or taking buying advice from people who are pushing product and they don't even demonstrate good competence in the few videos that you actually see them chopping in. The idea is to just foster the creation of contrasting content by cordwood challenge participants and the rest will take care of itself.
SkillCult I was just looking at one of your chopping videos and analyzing your technique. It dawned on me how remarkably similar the motion of the axe chopping stroke is to the golf swing. What I noticed is you're creating what in the golf world calls lag. This means that the butt of the handle is out in front of the axe head until the very last millisecond when centrifugal force naturally forces the axe head to release (I think you refer to this as a whipping motion). This stores all of the energy you're creating very effortlessly, efficiently and accurately. You don't seem like a golf person :-) but you may want to take a look on UA-cam about the concept of lag. I think it may add another tool in your teaching toolbox. Sorry to hear about the smoke, we're getting it as well (El Dorado County). Can't wait for fall! Cheers!
Yes, for sure. I learned about that concept with atlatls first. The spear and thrower both flex though, and at release, they both kick off and increase the throw. Stored energy. At some point I realized this must be going on with axes and mauls too. There is a video on youtube showing a jungle axe with a long super flexible handle, similar to ratan. It is an extreme example of that.
These are excellent points.
In my mind, hand forged would be like a hammer and an anvil. Or a power hammer. If it's a bunch of dies and a big hydraulic hammer, that's more like drop forging.
Glad to see you are looking well. Hope you feel as well. These days I watch just so I can listen.
Thanks Van.
Totally agree on Council Tool axes
I've used a few of them but they were the Velvicut line. Quite pricey up here in Canada. I like my GBA Swedish steel but have found a number of vintage heads just as good if not better that I rehandled for a fraction of the cost. Sourcing good handles is a bigger challenge actually.
I dig your general philosophy and appreciate your efforts. Wade
I've heard mixed reviews on the cheaper council axes now, but they seem pretty good most of the time. I've watched handle quality decline a lot over the last 25 years or more. And they were already pretty bad!
I appreciate your concept of a homesteading perspective.
So I took your last video on board. I was going down a rabbit hole of looking for a 'bushcraft axe' and eventually decided to get a hardware store axe and a file thinking I'll get that Small Forest Axe later. After getting the cheap axe sharpened up with that file and a stone, then using it I realised that it's fit for purpose. I don't use it enough to justify the high cost... it gets dull I touch it up easily. I'm sure that SFA is theoretically better, but not worth the cost for my use. We all get GAS though and if someone uses axes a lot I can see the value. For the little bit of splitting, chopping and carving I do, my cheapo works fine.
I found your "rant" to be very intuitive and honest as most tend to be. We are dealing with a society that has people who reinvent themselves every few years and to find an actual true believer in ones lifestyle is refreshing. As they say run with the big dogs or stay on the porch. Either they learn and become self reliant or they will be a servant of a disinformed and no common sense existance. Anyway now look who is ranting. 😄
Well played. Perfect
1. There's a silly myth that Amish = Craftsman because they don't have electric in their houses. The fact is their just folks just like us, and they can make crap just like everyone else. If anything I've noticed more of "gett'r dun" mentality among Amish than a do it best. But that's not to say there aren't true craftsman who happen to be Amish.
2. The most correct term you could use to describe the forging of the Swedish axes is "open die forged". Council tool = closed die forged, Granfors = open die forged, Hoffman = hand forged???? There is some dispute among blacksmiths about what counts as hand forged, some zealots say hand forged means all the work has to be done with hammer and hand, others say as long as you are controlling the forging by hand it's hand forged. I would not classify the Swedish axes as hand forged since although the dies are open and the operator has quite a bit of a job, the dies are so extensively shaped to match every angle of the axe the dies are doing more than the operator. Where as with Liam Hoffman the most he seems to use is flat dies and fullering dies, so he has to do more than the dies to achieve the finished form.
Amish is a good marketing point I guess. Thanks for the run down on the forging methods.
I just wonder how Hoffman axes behave in very cold climate... Blacksmiths used to just harden the bits and sometimes the poll leaving the eye area softer. I might be missing something but Liam heats the whole heads and just dumps them in oil giving them uniform hardness
tom tom that's an interesting point... I'm not sure how much the cold would effect the steel.
Though Liam is also a knife maker and from what I've seen he does heat treatment in a much more legit professional way than other blacksmiths. With modern steel and techniques I'm fairly certain an entire hardening of the tool is preferable over a differential heat treatment. So I wouldn't have any doubt that you'd be hard pressed to break one of his axes.
Also, tempering is actually a process of softening. Your talking about hardening. In heat treatment of a tool you first harden a tool, by heating and quenching, this leaves the tool at its maximum hardness but very brittle. Tempering is done after hardening by reheating the steel to a specific temperature to soften the steel slightly and give it a lot more toughness. SOOOOO, if you were to temper just the poll and bit, but hardened the entire axe, the center of the axe would be extremely brittle. The old method was to harden just the bit (then temper it) leaving the rest soft.
I've never actually seen how Liam tempers, but because he hardens in a heat treating oven I would assume he also tempers in that oven. Which would mean the entire axe is has the same level of hardness and toughness throughout the axe. This doesn't mean the body is necessarily brittle, but it isn't soft. As someone who understands heat treating, I'd personally prefer a tool that was heat treated in an oven and monolithically heat treated, over a tool done in a forge or with a torch with a differential heat treatment. As the oven is so much more accurate you can get the absolute most out of the steel. where with a forge it's basically sophisticated guesswork with a bit of luck.
I'd be interested to hear how the other modern axe makers heat treat the axes, if they're differentially heat treated or not.
You are right I was talking about heating and sudden cooling process. Thanks for correction
Broadus Thompson he tempers his axes in a heat Treating oven. It is the most accurate way to do it. He doesn't get a differential heat treat for sure, but it isn't that important on an axe.
Although he would likely be critical about the price, I think this channel would be a much more appropriate recipient of an axe from Liam Hoffman than the channel that shall not be named. I already messaged both of them a while back on the topic. Liam's axes are anathema to the homesteading ethos due to their cost but he, himself, is a perfect example of the same ethic.
just stumbled upon your channel, think its great subscribed right away, just getting into knifes, axes, great content
Cool, welcome. stay safe!
SkillCult yup sure will
What a knowledge dense video. Thanks! Everyone should know this stuff...
I'm always looking for bits and handles...hate to see the impact that collectors and wall-hangers have on the supply.
If i'm patient, I can pick out good, local handles but carving my own is the next step.
Your comfort zone mention? Always work at risk in the beginning (not swinging...making)!
Collecting is always a nuisance to people that use the stuff.
👍 hands on skills is the best road to travel . Takes time but worth the time and effort. Buying a Cadillac axe isn’t a bad thing- but if you use it -your still gonna need to be able to Maintain it. A cherished old axe is no different than a cherished old trusty Knife. Treat em with respect and they’ll be your friend for life🇺🇸. Enjoy your Videos Bro! Pray this year the fires are few
As Steven said. The best way to start with axes in general is to restore one by yourself or under an eye of someone who knows how to do it. It teaches you how to hang an axe, how to regrind it and sharpen it. Therefore, when you break something during the process of learning how to use it - you will be able to repair it on your own.
Thank you for all your axe videos. I agree with your suggestion of starting with something like the council tool boy's axe. Although I do not own a council tool, I think the 2 1/4 lb head is great for learning axe skills. started with a Norlund Hudson Bay axe about 50 years ago. Later I found a great 2 1/4 lb axe with no manufactures mark on it, which caused the Hudson Bay to get set aside. I used the no name axe for many years. I have made the mistake of over thinning its edge. It cuts great, but can get really stuck in a log when using it to split. A number of years ago now I bought Snow & Nealey. They were produced in Maine back then. Like your comment on the need to spend an hour with a file to shape the axe head correctly, I have had to do the same with all of my Snow & Nealeys. I just assumed it was something you had to do with any new axe. I assumed that because some people only use an axe for splitting, the manufacturers intentionally made them with a bevel more suited for splitting. Because I know a lot more now about not over thinning the edge, they all perform excellently. I was very sorry to hear that Snow & Nealey's quality is not what it once was. Keep the axe videos coming!
I heard that some of the thickness is left because of the tempering process. Or, yeah, just so that there is enough there that anyone can do whatever they want with it.
Glad your wake-up call was was limited to a scare and nothing more serious Steven. I hope your health is improving and you are feeling better than you have been. I recently lucked out on a Bilnas axe that I'm really liking. Very different feel, with a thick handle, and heavy head for its length. Closest I could compare would be a miners axe or fallers axe. Say hi to the chickens!
Bilnas are interesting. Never seen one in person. Have you seen the finish logging competition video from 1945? Super cool.
SkillCult, I have not seen that video, I'll definitely have to look it up. I'm surprised the handle is as comfortable as it is in use. I'm not sure what it is made out of but I'm not having the expected shock transfer and painful joints I was expecting using such a thick handle. It's a very different feel compared to any other axe I've tried. First impressions holding it were that it was best suited to use as a short splitting axe with almost a maul handle, but it performs on par with a slightly longer (slightly lighter) boys axe. I hope the handle never breaks, any info on fitting a new one looks like they can be a real challenge. If you ever get a chance to try one, the learning curve is surprisingly enjoyable. Thanks for the reply Steven!
Those handles were probably birch or ash too, less dense than hickory. There are other possible reasons to have a thick handle too, like control when hewing and carving type tasks often engaged in in house building.
Hickory is better than Ash?
Sugar Bear Yeah. Not that I tried it but in countries where ash is native to the flora we still use hickory that isnt. In such countries older axes, from an era or region where importing hickory wasnt an option, often have wider eyes to accomodate weaker wood like birch or rowan. If Ash was a suitable substitute its likely we would have used that instead.
Man I’ve spent time looking for handles at stores and that joke you made about them trying to make them crappy made me chuckle for sure.
I found a brand I like okay in our hardware store called Do It Best. That is with the caveat that they are probably 70% or more no good at all. If you find a good one, the form is okay.
Council tools replacement handles are pretty reasonable in price and fit well check them out.
I wouldn't even consider homesteading unless i had a kabota tractor and a Gator to show on youtube oh a 15,kwa generator and @ least a f250 with 9 months still good on my inspection sticker
I have an f250 with probably at least 9 months left in it!
Heres something to chew on, I like both your videos on this subject and agree with you on most points, I'm an axe thrower, collector, and have used axes my whole life. I found a Norlund boys axe at a thrift store and paid $25. Look up price on these axes, my point is as yours, if you learn to use an axe ,then start with one that feels right, is reasonably priced, and later on go find another that feels right and you will spend whatever for that feeling of comfort, the axe is an extension of you and what youre trying to accomplish while using one, match the axe to you first and use after that, cant fell a tree with a hatchet or split kindling with a swamper, last read or watch " Axe to grind" teaches much about axe basics , there are many and much to learn about them and their use, but its worth it . I find swedish axes are great, but just as anything else , get what you pay for but if youre motivated you dont and shouldnt have to spend a bunch for good quality or skill wielding our fine American axe heritage, ok, just some thoughts . Thanks for your videos, good stuff.
I have a couple council tool axes. I love them, their boys axe, once properly sharpened, is a work horse. Their camp hatchet it nice too, but I had to do about an hour of file work to get the thickness of the bit right. For everything else i look for good vintage stuff. Got my hands on a kelly/true temper flint edge #4 single bit for a good price, and my grandfathers cruiser head that I had rehung, an old off brand with good steel in it. Still hunting a few extra flint edges for my kids for down the road. I did pick up a Hults Bruk American felling axe. That said i bought it for a friend to replace his broken hardware store axe, and i got it for a smoking deal, floor model kinda thing $50 bucks, just could not pass it up.
I'm interested in the Hults felling axes, but they cost a lot over here. In Europe they are cheap. Ben Scott recommends them and I've said for a long time if they were just a little cheaper here they would probably make a good basic axe. Council is great, but they do have some quality control inconssitency on those budget models. If you get a good one though, the form is great. I really like their handles, I just tune them down a to my liking,but the form is good and they aren't unusable out of the box.
I've been using axes and hatchets since I was a youngster. Regarding Snow & Neely, I have one I purchased prior to 1980. It was a reasonable price, It isn't difficult to sharpen, keeps its edge and the handle is first class Hickory. I must have lucked out with the older production. As for handles, I would rather have one that is too thick for my hand as I consider it raw material to customize for my hands.
I think they were known then as a holdout in the industry that still had a continuous history of production from way back. Now they outsourced and then brought it back, but from what I've seen, they don't really understand axes. They might still get it together hopefully. They need to hook up with someone competent, the way Craig Roost is hooked up with Council Tool. I think it's fine if handles come thick, it's just a matter of degrees. At some point it's wasteful and in may cases counterproductive to strength. I have a video out on how overthickening can compromise handle resiliency at the eye. Thanks for commenting.
My snow and neally had a super soft head and the shaft broke due to grain runout. Got it on amazon so I couldn’t pick one in person. They did not respond to my complaint on amazon. I hope for their sake mine was an aberration and others got nice ones, but for me I’m a one time customer.
Close call mate ! Glad I live in Newzealand no snakes here lol
We need video like that for knives
Ebay has hundreds of quality older axes constantly for sale. I've bought at least ten that have come to me here in Queensland, Australia from the USA. All much, much cheaper than new, modern axes and all have been great axes: Collins Legitimus; Kelly True Temper; Plumb. High quality steel and beautiful slender handles, especially those with the deers-foot butt end. Enjoy your videos and I appreciate your clever, dry sense of humour. Cheers.
The prices have gone up a lot, but they are still reasonable enough for what you get. I thought you guys would have a lot of good axes. America is a gold mine of axe heads for sure for whatever reasons. I just picked up a couple pretty cheap at a yard sale.
Australia is a gold mine of great axes.
I've had same experience with rattlers around my place lately. They rarely rattle and one has to stay alert and careful, especially at night.
These Pacific rattlers are decidedly passive. Sometimes it's all you can do to get them to rattle a little bit.
Dude... just found this shoutout! Thank you so much! I agree with you on most of what you said and especially from your perspective you are doing exactly the right thing... as a craftsman who is often bringing back old axes, spending 1 day on finding a good head (recently I found several 2.5lbs Walters made in Canada up here in northern ontario) cleaning it, regrinding, sharpening, carving a handle with axe and knife, hafting and making a handstiched and riveted sheath... check out my video coming out shortly about some I refurbished for oldtimers up here in Ontario who gave me 50 year old axes... there is no way I can sell that axe that I made to match axes from the golden era for 50$ after all... they will cost 150+$ ... that's the reality of me putting 6+h of work into it...
I got a plume axe from a friend's grandpa who had died and knew nothing about how to use it or restore it. When I got it, probably couldn't have cut myself with it if I fell on it. After hours of filing and youtube, i gave up and carefully used and angle grinder. Then I found your channel and finally got a workable edge
Good to hear. Stay safe, those things are dangerous!
My understanding is that Snow & Neally still outsources their heads and assembles them domestically. They suck, which is really bad because I have some old ones and they are awesome.
Council is probably the best domestic axe you can get from a manufacturer, rather than a custom, and that's not saying much.
I have an either/or view on this. Either buy a vintage axe head and haft it yourself (try to buy your axe handles at the hardware store to find one that doesn't have the grain running off the side, heartwood mixed with sapwood and other such problems. Like you said, you can get a great axe by trading time for money.
Or buy a Swedish axe. They are the only ones I have bought that were ready to go out of the box. Literally shaving sharp. The SA Wetterlings tend to be about 2/3the price of the Gransfors, and the price difference is that they come sharp, but not shaving sharp. They don't need to be filed, just touched up on a soft Arkansas, and stropped. Do that, and shave the handle. Hultafors is a fairly cheap brand, but they are about as good as a Council, as is Husqvarna.
There just doesn't seem to be a good, working class out of the box solution anymore.
A word on steels:
Gransfors uses the European equivalent of 1055 steel. They don't use a magic supersteel. What they do, is have a good heat treat on their steel. I've been a tool & die maker for over 20 years, and aside from specialized applications, the steel matters less than the heat treat.
The cheap axes fail on the heat treat. They also tend to be CAST, not even drop-forged. I've seen cheap axes that said they were drop forged have catastrophic bit failures and I could tell by the graininess of the structure that they were in fact cast heads, not forged.
The final thing to consider is what kind of wood you are primarily cutting. If it's mostly coniferous soft wood,the Swedish axes are killer. If you get into a lot of hardwoods, their geometry just doesn't work well, and you are truly better off refurbing a vintage Plumb or True Temper.
Excellent comment.
That's incorrect as of 2019 at least. Snow and Neally are made 100% in the US.
What do you think of Adler?
The word your looking for to describe the type of forging Gransfors et al. uses is "Drop Forged"
Glad you didn't get bit!
Hundreds of times _with a force of about 180 tonnes each time_ ?
No, for their most produced models, it's basically Open die Drop Forging!
ua-cam.com/video/thWBfiUpe48/v-deo.html
I'll decompose that for you
They cut a blank with a jig after induction heating, with a depth stop to get a regular size,
Then a first dedicated die punches the eye (he has to reverse the head in a second pass on a short punch so as not to get flashing around the hole), that way, the first tool pinches and form a small slug in the middle of the eye, then second dedicated longer punch die shears and eject it, the automated pinching pieces are there to keep the thickness consistent while punching the eye.
Then it's back and forth through dies that both form the bit and thin it, AND form the toe and heel of the blade, it takes successive passes because there's a lot metal to move with a rather small machine, but it's the die that controls the final shape, if he wanted to make a blade with a more pronounced toe or heel, he would have to change the die, or rework it afterwards
Then he drifts the eye to get it back to spec , on that two stepped part, (first step's height has been calculated to allow resting the head whilst changing grip to prepare to insert the drift, and to allow ejecting it afterwards, the higher step is where the eye is comformed to the drift, and the lips are produced, at the shoulder end of the eye, in one go! Then, on the far left, it's the stamping mark (only afterwards does he controlls that the bit isn't crooked (a bit late if it was)
Then it's off to the cooling rack, before beeing sent to heat treat, depending on the steel, that is probably one or two normalization passes in a molten salt bath, bringing it up to the manufacturer recommended quenching temp then quenching the heads in whatever media is specified on the steel's tech sheet, then tempering (then grinding, hafting, etc)
He has little to no control over the final shape, and he has to work to the rythm of the machine, not the other way around! He is reduced to beeing a factory worker, adapting to the tool and it's rythm, not an Artisan, making decisions, and working the tools at his will...
The amount of control he has is "is it ready for the next pass or no" He can fuck up an axe if he isn't carefull, but he can't produce any different shape that the tool is set up for!
Most of their production is as industrialised as could be possible up to the early twentieth century, where the idea for mass production and cheap labour was allready to automatise tasks and to decrease the
need for skilled labour!
I'm not saying the guy has NO skills, nor that the result isn't good, and he might even be a competent smith with anvil and hammer, or a power hammie, but on this machine at least, is task is, go from A to B, then do C through D until it passes the criteria to go into E, then F, and voila, hop, to heat treat!
Again, What he does here is factory work, not Smithing!
Granted, it's more control than on an impression forging machine, still it's drop forging, by its very definition!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging#Drop_forging
By the way, most impression forging doesn't produce a final shape in a single pressing!
Depending on the amount of transformation needed from the starting stock to the finished product, it can go through tens of steps too!
The type of powerhammers you'd get in most smithies offer much more control, there's a foot pedal to control the depth and timing of the strikes, and the smith is free to rotate and present the piece at wichever angle he wishes to achieve the desired shape!
I believe some of their carpenters axes are produced this way, but they're few and far between!
One of the tricks of a good smith with a power hammer to demonstrate his ability was/is to put an egg in it, and only "kiss" it without cracking or crushing it!
(Edited to insert a vid of such a thing here:
ua-cam.com/video/sfJBh_iyI3A/v-deo.html (by the way, I don't believe he intended to crack it, and it's a relative yet still impressive fail)
Good luck with that here, the series of hammer is set to go to on a determined course, and that's it, on one die, it won't even make contact, on hte other crush it, there's little control here!!
Granted there is more of a human factor than in impression forging, up to the point you can have a whole production chain with little to no human intervention, but many (read most, or ALL, except worker error) of the characteristics of the axe head produced in this gransfors vid are still determined by the dies, and nothing but the dies!
The process they use is by definirion is Drop Forging!
siouxsettewerks, great, informative comment.
They used to be a little bit more honest and mark them as drop forged : www.terapeak.com/worth/vintage-s-a-w-sweden-drop-forged-single-bit-axe-head/252150202167/
Thanks!
Hey man, have you tried Hardcore Hammers hatchet and axes? They seem decent, and its all American.
I just got an Oschenkopf (German) axe to contrast the fancy Swedish collection. It's beautiful but it needs a lot of material removal. I don't know if I have the skills to make it good but there's enough material in the head and handle to get it right or to practice for the next one.
Ochsenkopf (the company Gedore owns them) is more an industrial product. Quality is good, I have inherited a couple of those myself - older and newer.
Subscribed. Cool site. Hand tools made back when they were the only means to process wood tend toward being still the very best for use today. Second hand, thrift, junk stores, yard sales, etc., I get axes, crosscuts, etc., this way. I even found brand new Klein tree spurs $50. at my fave new & used. I fell my first pole for Bell pole in 1972. Dad made use crosscut & axe. I was given a Wetterlings hatchet 2014. I’ve never used it. I don’t like it. Thank you for doing such an informative, Excellent site.
Thanks Tim :) I like the junk store stuff too. I don't think people realize that buying new axes doesn't really mean they won't still require work to get in order.
I appreciate your insight on cheap axes. I just touched-up a couple of really cheap hatchets with a new Nicholson axe file (made in Mexico). It got them shaving sharp but the steel is pretty soft. What's a good brand of axe file? They're good enough for splitting the pelvis on deer and they'll need re-sharpening after a few but get the job done. Good for thinning out small cedars too but show them a hard maple and they beg for forgiveness. I'll be looking for some vintage axe heads at some old blacksmith shops thanks to your suggestions.
I like the Bahco 8 inch farmer's file so far. I haven't used it enough to really get an idea of durability, but I like that configuration and so far so good. If you do heavy filing a lot, it really pays to ad something like a 12 to 14 inch double cut file to the collection for removing material fast.
@@SkillCult Thanks for the suggestion. The Nicholson is double cut. Removes material pretty quickly. I used an old medium ceramic stone from a Spyderco Sharpmaker to remove the wire edge. It cleaned the hatchets up nicely. Great videos - thanks again!
a 12 to 14 inch double cut is a whole other beast over smaller ones. The thing with files is that a bastard file at 6 inches has much finer teeth than a bastard file at 14 inches. You'd think the standard ratings would be by teeth per inch then, but it's not, it's scaled by file size. For sharpening it's not big deal, but if sitting down for half an hour to hog off a lot of steel, there is a huge difference. Not necessary, but something to look for. Used ones can be fine. Most of mine I bought used.
Another thing Steve, Living in Lancaster County Pa among many Amish, I know both kinds of craftsmen. Some are very good and others get the job done but not so pleasing to say the least. Like one old Amish dude said to me years ago, "I build for sturdy and not for pretty". Actually it was more like sturdy but shitty. Keep on keepin on!
lol
I have a Gränsfors (which is domestic to me as a Swede) Liten skogsyxa (small woodland axe?) and I really enjoy working with it, it is a bit small for processing large trees but I only do so sparesly. Then I have some old, second hand axe that I really should re-hang or at least scrape the awful flakey varnish is on its handle off. The bit of that second hand axe also need some harsh love with the grinder as the edge is waaay too convex and the back of the head is mashroomed to hell and back. Finnally I have a tiny hatchet I got when I was about seven years old.
enjoying your channel I am 21 months off retiring to Scotland, hope to take advantage of your experience, wont be self sufficient but will have a drasticaly reduced cost of living and a great life stile hopefully
So cool. Have a blast. There are so many fun things to do in life that are utterly missed.
this is true my first axe i knew so little that i somehow lost two inches from the edge.
I like the junk Chinese axes for cutting roots. Anything you use in that role is going to lose its edge quickly anyway, so it may as well be a cheap axe with a soft edge.
Cheap Chinese tools up the competition for American manufacturers Red China cutting tool Mostly for me steel cutting chisel were far better that American made chisels Baltimore Chisel. Brand specifically. I also bought an excellent chinese made axe . 30 years ago the cutting edge was outstanding but the balance on the swing was awkward
The image of the dudes in the cabin with the chickens buying their way out of every problem reminded me of a few people I know from the internets. We're saving a lot of money now to live quite poor later.
Just save it for housing and land payments, not expensive tools. Someday I'll do a vid on what tools to look for and how to get them cheap over time. I know you're already on it.
SkillCult Somehow a tractor has to fit in there. Sweating.
There is a very small tractor here, but I didn't have to buy it. It is awful nice to have a front loader. There are an awful lot of dudes with tractors that don't really need or use them though. Maybe you can score one of those for cheap!
Hey Steven do you have Pacific Madrone there? Would you think about making a handle of it? The major issue seems to be cracking while drying. Applying linseed oil as it dries? The tendency for it to be twisted is there, but variable, and I'm actually not sure that's inherently negative if it can be worked in decently enough. Bucking machine at the end of the vid !!
Hi Nathan. We have a lot of it. I like working it, but. It's too brittle for anything that sees much stress. It is hard and fairly dense, but flies to pieces under stress. My friend made a bow from in once and it shattered to pieces. In norcal and the pacific N.W. I'm thinking oregon ash, oregon white oak (garryana), Canyon live (chrysolepis) and tan oak.
Thanks I will check those out!
I've used tan oak a little, but not enough to get a feel for it. Planning to try the others, but not always easy to find straight trees in california.
Right on; I'm sure myself and others will be interested to see how it goes. I'm not seeing a lot of oak in my neck of the PNW; the garryana might be around here somewhere, and I did come across some folks on the net saying white oak is good for these things. The Ash seems the best option and I'm pretty sure I can find some, so right on! Another thing: should we only be using wood out of the trunk (and avoiding heartwood?), or should branches be suitable?
I went to several local swap meets and finally found an older 2 1/4 Woodslasher, then found an old Collins Red Seal that dates to around 1915. Next up was beaver-tooth axe handles. After that a few hours each and my daughter has 2 very serviceable tools! I have a couple full size heads, and an old plumb hatchet head that I need to hang. The Plumb hatchet head has an odd eye size that I had been having problems locating till recently, 11/16". I see Beaver now has one in stock that will work... maybe time to hang this for my soon to be 7y.o. son.
I just want to say Thank you for a great channel! Apple trees are an avid interest of mine as well. So much awesome information across so many needed areas!
That's cool. I used to go to flea markets all the time. That's my idea of a good time. Apples, king of homestead fruits!
gary sheppard Hi Gary. I have a couple of old Plumbs that I'm reconditioning. One is a 75 year old riggers hatchet and the other is a carpenters hatchet with the single bevel. I had a hard time finding handles as well. If yours has the small tear-drop eye try an Ames Riggers handle or a straight "California" framing handle. Sometimes Amazon has them. Don't get the curved as they are eyed toward the hammer side and won't be good for the axe side. Hope this helps.
I will have to look into that. Thanks!
gary sheppard you're welcome. Vaughn also has decent handles for that style eye. Best to you.
I dont homestead or live off grid, i go camping ALOT tho and when i do part of the experiance of enjoyment is the kit and tools i bring.. i like to spend money on quality equipment because it makes it even more pleasurable. I have used hardware store axes my whole life BUT the enjoyment i get from sweedish steel is unexplainable.. some things in life are about the process not just the outcome.
Council tools have some great design but they are not available here in Europe. I think the best option in Europe is Hultafors even if their handles are way too thick.
P.S. Do you use a spokeshave to thin the handles ? If not which tool ?
Usually scraping with a knife is adequate. A spokeshave is nice, but I rarely bother. 4 way rasp and scraping are my usual go to for that.
SkillCult I've been scraping too but it's slow, I think I will get a spokeshave
are you getting shavings like this? ua-cam.com/video/WZhJs5e32GI/v-deo.html It should be pretty fast. Spokeshaves are really nice, especially for making handles, but definitely not necessary. For me, sharpening and setting up are often just not worth the time when a knife is always in my pocket.
I made an axe handle as a teenager, if someone can't do this as an adult they need to do some soul searching, or just go and buy some ready split firewood wood I guess. Might sound harsh, but if you that person who thinks they can't make and fit an axe handle I think you should just go ahead and do it... 1st one won't be as good as the 5th one but nothing to loose, only to gain.
What do you think about Prandi "German Style" hatchets?
Never used one. They look kind of awkward, but can' say much without trying it.
Real men use stone axe heads, paleo isn't just for food. ;)
I got a couple of them I made. Honestly haven't used them a lot. I should bust them out and do some videos.
SkillCult you would just make me feel like more of a poser yuppy. I would love to see it, you could go primitive technology for a couple videos, that would be awesome.
I'll probably just do some vids on how primitive tech works, with my usual geeked out style.
@@SkillCult I'd like to see that
Hi Steven, I enjoyed this. This subject was always going to wind up the tackle tarts. Have you come across Mr Chickadee's channel? If not I think you would enjoy much of his content. I was also going to mention Steemit which might help you to generate additional income from all your hard work.
I do know Mr. Chickadee's channel. I haven't watched a ton of his stuff, but it's awesome, so I don't know why not. Never heard of Steemit. Sounds interesting. I really don't do social media much, but I'll sign up and check it out. I like the idea that users could make money potentially by the quality of what they offer, rather than these more corporate entities that have somehow tricked us all into making content for them while they deluge us with advertising.
Five wagons of the most exquisite tools plus a kabota tractor with loader bucket. Yea that's my type of homesteading. And that's why I'm not a homesteader
How big a market is there for hand made axes? I bet it is very small, they take ages to make and therefore are very expensive. Several people here in Norway still make axes by hand but I couldn't afford to buy one even though I use them at work. I agree that old axes are a good idea. Using an hour here or there to set up tools the way you want them is ok. Compared with making a new one... My broad axe has a high carbon steel edge welded on and works fine, it was made for hobbyists, ie cheaper than hand made, but I have used it to build log houses and hew timber for many years and I am content. People make too much of a big deal about all this stuff. What is much harder is becoming skilful with edge tools that really does take a lot of hours, and when you have the skill it just looks easy to the layman.
There is a surprisingly good market for axes over 100.00 but I'm sure it just gets smaller and smaller from there. yep, skills over gear!
A hand made broad axe for log house building here is $440 incl.tax, looking at the website of the guy who made mine (20 years ago). I still hold out to find one in a yard sale.... thanks for filming your work, best wishes, Lucas.
I wish my hearing was keen enough to hear a snake slithering across some boards outside my house. 30 yrs as a carpenter/cabinet maker has taken its toll on my ears. On a more related note: We have Collins axes up here in Canada. Very similar to Council Tools as far as quality & domestic production. We also have Garant axes that can be decent but can be hit & miss.
I think our collins are outsourced to Mexico now if I'm not mistaken. That is interesting difference.
I got 2 cold steel trail bosses for $44 delivered.They are beast.
Do you think getting an Estwing 26 inch axe is a really bad idea?
So, I decided that I didn't like those before I even really used axes. Then I got the hatchet and used it for a few years and decided I liked it little enough to get rid of it too. I should really revisit the axe, just to be sure, but at this point, yeah, I think it's a bad idea.
Always appreciate your perspective and articulate explanations.
One thing I would say is that if you ask 1000 people who are into axes, knives, saws, carving tools, etc...you'll have 1000 distinct financial circumstances, motivations, goals, skill levels, physical abilities/limitations, intellects, time available to work on their related hobby/passion/job.
In my considerable experience as an age 50+ lifelong learner of many different skills, a "big tent" approach that accepts diversity is the most constructive and appealing. There's nothing that alienates people quicker than being told they aren't "pure enough" because they bought the wrong thing or did the wrong thing.
My best advice as someone that values your content is to maintain a positive tone as much as possible and teach rather than preach.
Cheers.
thanks. good advice.
You should make a podcast! I think I speak for ask if us when I say that an "ax talks" podcast would be great!
I should do a lot of things lol. I've thought of it... I have a lot of cool friends to interview.
I don't have the need for another axe, but one thing has been interesting me that I'd like to try out is Barco owns the "Kelly Perfect" license or whatever it is. Now its about $84 for the Kelly Perfect single bit Dayton pattern 3.5 pound axe and $62 for just the Kelly. However, the two pack for the Kelly perfect is $117 and the Kelly is $84. Made in the USA. If I decide to buy one for myself and another as a gift or if I wanted to get someone to split the bill on a two pack, then that's really not a bad deal. I want to know if the modern Kelly Perfect axe is still a good axe. Sounds like a video idea (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)? If it is nearly as good as it's heritage, then it would easily be the best deal around for a new made in USA axe. Otherwise the next best thing would possibly be the U.S. Forest Service spec axes Council Tools sometimes releases. By the way, I refer to most hardware store axes as axe shaped blunt objects.
I didn't know about that, but I don't need any more stuff to review lol. The Vido's were not favorably impressed by Barco. axeconnected.blogspot.com/2013/04/review-barco-cruiser-ax.html
The problem, as I see it, about starting from scratch with an old axe head as a relative beginner is that you don't know what result you're going for. You might be skilled in woodworking and/or working with steel but if you're not an experienced axe user you're unlikely to end up with a good tool. For this reason (and others) I think many people would prefer to spend a bit of money for a good out-of-the-box solution that, at the very least, points you in the right direction. This might even be more cost efficient in the long run and it's almost certainly more time efficient.
Then there's the whole discussion about your reasons for learning. Are you interested in developing your skill using axes or your skill making them? We can't all be experts at everything and I can certainly see how a group of people would be willing to pay in order to get directly to the "using part". Yes, you will break handles and have to order a bunch but you're saving time. I guess it comes down to which you have to spare.
That's a good point and some of that is why I was inclined toward an out of the box solution. I guess there will be a compromise somewhere.
and, again, I'm projecting my values and priorities on people. I can't really help it, even though I know I do it. I guess I'm talking to the audience I want to have or something like that. Thanks for commenting.
Robin Wood carving axe, is very good
I have always thought it would be great to see if someone could take an axe head, and go carve a new handle for it. Not a challenge, but a thought for an episode
drason69 like said before, lots of videos out there. But it's a totally doable diy project. Might take 4 to 8 hrs of time depending on how you go at it. Think I spent a total of 8 hrs using a hand saw, chisel, hammer and rasp making a 32" out of some old cherry barn wood I had laying around. It's not perfect, but I learned alot doing it. If time and material allows, go for it sometime.
Thought about that, but never done it. I would probably slap on a super quicky handle and use it to carve the new handle rather than hand holding it the whole time.
Yeah, junk like the Fiskars axe. Like what are they trying to do there, make it look like a primitive stone axe? It's a ridiculous design! Fiskars needs to stick to making scissors. And the Bear Grylls hatchet. What? Has Gerber lost it? I use to like Gerber KNIVES! America use to make good stuff, what the hell happened? I still have my True Temper double bit axe, single bit axe & a 12 lb. splitting maul from 30 years ago. I fell a lot of trees with my double bit axe & a crosscut saw. Split a lot of fire wood with that maul ( I think it's a Collins) & a lot of kindling with my single bit axe too. I use to have a Plumb single bit axe, not sure what happened to that one. I think the Plumb was in my truck that was stolen along with my Homelite trim saw.
good to see you addressed where you skipped a little I wouldn't change opinion on thin handles an axe without a thin handle are just painful callused hands also I have always found the best steel to be good for an axe you can sharpen them to a razor edge and hold the edge longer for high efficient work go antique don't buy one of the overly expensive Sweden axes
please respond if you have any opossing opinions sharing of ideas and knowledge is the best path to learning in my opinion
Good steel is nice. I find that the work I do, lots at ground level and the bases of trees with grit, that I'm likely to be sharpening before too long anyway much of the time. In the final analysis I haven't seen enough difference to make me care, assuming reasonable quality. Thanks for commenting.
+SkillCult ya I see what you mean I'm up in the more northern parts of America so a large amount of the trees I encounter are soft skin bark trees like pine, birch, beach etc I also very often cut into maple and ash I have had a lot of experience with soft, mild, and hard axes soft steel is obviously the truper brand I mentioned I went through the blade on that axe in 5 swings I use is it as a wedge now on mild, mild I would have to say is pretty ok I have been swinging a prandi axe around for along time it's still a good axe blade is lost after a good chunk of use but on hard steel my norlund I still have a razor edge after hours of use so I have seen improvements with hardness of the steel in my axes ,
Just my personal experiences
Appreciate this video, and the clarification. Marbles Outdoors Axe (704) is finding its way to us now, GFB SFA methadone. Don't judge.
Was given a (supposedly) vintage head a year ago, friend got it at... something, I don't know, I'm going back to find that legendary Plumb. I just jumped over too google, plumb pictures came back, ground back nearly to the eye, FOR SALE!
No, but, Plumb, any other brands made out of ye ol' timey steel that I can find in these dark dens of vintage axe heads for $5?
Oh, and man, we're getting dragged over to Instagram. We have customers begging us to let them set up an Instagram account for us. Instagram looks so shit. But for Steven, maybe.
I like instagram, but I forget to post. it's fun though. I like visual media and they give you enough room to say something if you want to. Interactions are usually pretty brief, which is good. Set one up. You don't have to use it.
American axes... what about the Marbles company? As far as Ive heard they should be quite high quality, at a very low price?
They outsourced, I think to china, that is why they are cheap now. They used to be a reputable brand.
sry t hear. Not all that comes out of China is ... lower quality. But for the most part, unfortuneately, is .. a waste of everybodys time and all our resources.
I beleave u should get with a axe manufacture. And design ur own axe... that way u can have input on not only the axe head and handle designs but also the msrp maybe a guy like you can get america a good quality axe with a good thin handle for a reasonable price......
I've thought about it. I might work on it sometime, but I would do my own prototyping first. But really, the council tool boys axe is fine. I think for what is out now, the sport utility boys axe is a good choice and not too expensive. That basic dayton type has stood the test of time for a reason
Always wanted to make it to a cali fire
I'm always hoping them stay away from me.
@@SkillCult lol I bet! Alot different when it's your back yard vs. Someone else's
So just to clarify, who do you recommend? Budget axe wise?
Do you mean what axe? not sure of the question.
SkillCult Which Manufacturer is making a reasonable value for the price.
In the states I think the council budget line is a good value, but I have heard some complaints about temper being too soft and stuff like that. I also hear they are good about returns though. The husqvarna line can be a good deal, but I don't like the hatchet and they only have a few models. Also, expect to do some work. Any budget axe you'd best expect to have to do some work though. Aside from the husqvarna axes made by Hults Bruks, Hults axes are minimally available in the united states and more expensive, but where they can be found, they seem like a good deal. I can order a boys axe at a reasonable price from Canada, but the shipping bumps it way up. Best deal is used axes still. You're very likely to get a high quality head for cheap and if you do the math, even ebay can be a pretty good deal.
But, there are lots of axes and brands I haven't tried too. Most American companies seem to have outsourced and lowered production standards.
SkillCult I don't mind finishing the job, doing some work. Just looking for some insight on which brands are worth working on at all. There needs to be a good tool hiding in a mediocre attempt. Lol
Anyone have any suggestions for decent working axes sold in Australia?
I always here people say there are good used axes over there.
sam henderson try ebay, in my opinion you have the best second hand market of the world. I live in the other side of the world and I have bought two dozen of heads (quite expensive habit). They use to come with a very fat bit, but with a good file, time and basic knowledge about geometry you can produce excelent axes.
Australian patterns are one of my fauvorites, try those Tasmanians.
I think the argument that the Swedish axes aren't hand-made because they're made with power hammers is bogus. Power hammers were used widely by makers on both sides of the Atlantic for years, and there's still a lot of human skill involved. They're not stamps that cut the steel to shape; they're hammers. You have to move the steel around rather than moving the hammer, but the theory is still the same. Hell, Liam HOffman's got one as well. IIRC, he named it Audrey.
I have a few Swedish axes, and I've done a bunch of restores over the past few years. I like the story I can tell behind each restore, ands how much less it costs to get a great axe put together. I still haven't tried a Council or a S&N, but I'm definitely curious.
I'm a blacksmith and have used power hammers. The process they use is definitely a long step up from that. As another commenter said, the dies more or less press the axe into it's finished shape. There is obviously skill involved since they turn out crooked not infrequently, but it's hardly the same as hammer forging either. It just seems like a stretch to call it hand forging.
I'll take my lumps: I was simplifying for brevity's sake. But I don't see it as being that far off from a straight-up hammer and anvil. Or rather, they're different, but on a spectrum that ranges from 'shaped with a hammer on an anvil' to 'poured as superheated goop into a mould on an automated assembly line,' I'd put the Hoffman/Gransfors method *way* closer to the fully manual method than some might like. I guess I can meet a system halfway if it's been in use for over 100 years. That's a bloody arbitrary notion I know, but we're talking about a machine that's bent around since before the turn of the last century. Before that, they had trip hammers. So I think that the ideal of the blacksmith hammering out a choice axe fully by hand hasn't really been the norm - on the industrial-scale end, I mean - for a long, long time.
They used to be a little bit more honest and mark them as drop forged : www.terapeak.com/worth/vintage-s-a-w-sweden-drop-forged-single-bit-axe-head/252150202167/
tom tom in the mid-80s, the forging at Gransfors changed from making a rough axe-shaped thing that would get its final shape by grinding, to forging the heads to final shape and grinding just the bit. Wetterlings did the same thing very soon after. That's why the heads don't looks like that one any more. That's also when the terminology changed.
Raindance thanks for this valuable info; I am not buying vintage swedish cr@p anymore.... just kidding
What Hatchets do you recommend?
I don't have any yet. Used is a great way to go. There are jillions of small american pattern hatchet heads out there.
@@SkillCult yet? Does that mean you will be reviewing new hatchets until you find one you would recommend? Used can be a good way to go, but where I live in California most people selling a used hand tool have already "restored it" and want top dollar because it's "vintage". Garage sales have all but disappeared (especially since COVID) and Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace is what remains. I miss the days of garage sale hunting with my dad as a kid on an early Saturday morning.
@@WestcountyWill I live in norcal in a small town. we have a so so junk store, but I've gotten probably 4 axes and hatchets out of there at least in the last 5 years or so, none over 15.00 Another from a garage sale and a couple more, inclucing my daily user for 5.00, from another guy that sells junk out of a storage unit on the weekends. Hopefully things will return to normal. many areas in cali used to have great flea markets. Dunno anymore, I never go out lol. Still, decent no name hatchet heads on ebay should not be too much. Collectors drive everything up, but there are still lots of deals out there. I actually have some hatchets to review and mess with, so hopefully this year.
There is a sweet spot where cost and quality cross each other. That's the place where maybe it makes most sense to buy. Don't buy the top of the line or the bottom of the barrel unless you have a good reason.
I once used a 5 dollar axe. The head broke off and almost clipped my then girlfriend in the head. I won't make that mistake again.
Shit, I wish I would've watched this one before commenting on the original video!
ieatgodmeat haha! That goes for me too! I guess I could go back and delete my comments on the other video...Nah!
Not sure the councils are probably the most useable budget axe out the box the Jersey pattern looks like it would work well having used both the Boys axe and the Hudson bay.
People have had trouble with the temper on the budget line red axes, but otherwise, they are usually a good deal. They still end up needing a b unch of work. The heads rarely stay tight and they need significan't grinding, but all axes do pretty much.
Ever heard of Stubai?
They make axes?
I didn't see anything wrong with what you said on the expensive axes video. You could have possibly said not to buy expensive axes a time or two fewer, but... I heard a primary message of "you don't need to buy an expensive, imported axe to have a good axe." There may be some additional work required on your part if you buy a hardware store axe, but when you are done you will have a serviceable axe and some new skills in your tool box. That is what I heard. Your explanation in this video says a lot positive about your character, and I commend you for having done it, but it was not necessary for me, but that's just me.
I have a Randall Model 5 knife that I actually use for cutting things. Most people wouldn't think of doing that; the poor knife would be a safe or shelf queen. I bought it when Randall knives were more reasonably priced. I would not buy one at today's prices, even with adjustments for inflation over what I paid when I bought mine. This knife is like an extension of my hand-arm unit. It helps me do things more efficiently and easily than other knives that I use, but not enough to warrant the difference in price. It's more about owning a work of the knife maker's art than about getting a job done. I would like a Wetterlings or Council Tools Velvicut axe, but the axes I have, including a Council Tools Boys Axe, are all the larger cutting tools I need. I think I paid close to $50 for the Boys Axe; I was given a Plumb large felling axe for which I have not tried to determine the exact style because that would use time I could be doing something else with; I inherited a Boy' s axe, but with a broken handle; and I have an old Boy Scout hatchet. I don't find the need to obtain any more, until I see one at a flea market or garage sale type of thing.
Regardless, you made some good points about developing skills, both in this video and in the trigger video. Again, I commend you for doing something like this. AND, I appreciate all your other videos. Some of them I go back to from time to time for refresher sake.
Thank you.
I think the main thing I'd do different is emphasize not buying garbage, which is still most of what is available new at affordable prices. There has definitely been some misunderstanding about that. I think it should be obvious but apparently not enough. Especially if people are triggered, they are going to hear what they want to hear. The repetition was part oratory style. It's something public speakers have always used, like politicians and preachers. wait, I guess maybe that's not always the best company...
It's very interesting to me, that you would say that it needs a lot of skill and a good eye and tools to fit an axe-handle. Personally I don't really think so. The first handles I put into axes I did with only a Hammer a cheap Knife and an old file. They are all straight and none of them have gotten loose yet. The thing I find way harder to do is sharpening (also more expensive in tools). I just lack the skill (and honestly the patience) to do it properly. (Not even talking about making handles myself)
And one last thing about not finding vintage axes in your area: I doubt that very much. In any area. Go to a local flea market or just buy on ebay. There will always be cheap and even good ones on ebay.
He said you need a set of skills to do it. Not a lot of skill. Good eye yes, most people would think if it fits in the hole its good enough.
I don't really know why, but it is/was very hard for me, to keep the angle. And most axes I had to sharpen untill now, were in very, very bad shape. Usually it took me at least 10 to 20 min with a file to make it somewhat ok.
Honestly tho, if it fits the hole it's basically good enough. As long as it's straight and you have enough space to wedge it.
It's easy to take off too much and end up with a loose fit. I like to get them very tight and I find that if I don't take my time it usually doesn't go well. Also, a lot of them are milled poorly and the eye section may have to be adjusted to one side. Then there are crooked axe eyes. Sharpening is a deal for sure. No substitute for time spent.
Good, cheap axes on EBay??? No way! Vintage axes are getting harder and harder to find. Mainly because people are snatching them up and selling them on EBay for far more than they are worth.
The Swedish axes are a combination of press forging and hammer forging with the press doing the majority of the work. This is also how Liam Hoffman makes his axes but he puts more emphasis on the hammer forging due to the fact that he's running a one man forge not a factory. Do not confuse press forging with drop forging. Drop forging is far inferior when it comes to axes. Drop forging uses a large falling hammer to press molten metal to the shape of the die it has been placed in. This results in a weaker less durable finished product in comparison to a press forging/hammer forging combination. www.dropforging.net/drop-forging-vs-press-forging.html
Thanks for contributing to the conversation.
Very true.
I have been using a $20 axe from local hardware store for the last 15 years. I don’t use it everyday or week, I’ve replaced the handle a half dozen times, and I haven’t damaged the “head”(?), and I’ve hit a bunch of crap in the ground. So, I’m sure it all matters very much like tools in my hobby of woodworking, but really tools matter less then they often are given credit for. Most of the time, not always obviously.
And I’m not talking crap, I’m just saying I feel like there was a point to the original video. And I’m not self proclaiming my conformity to the message, I’m just saying that coincidentally what the original video had said actually applied to me pretty accurately. Cheap has been good enough. Although if I was an enthusiast I would probably own a $300 axe, so I guess I’d be a hipocrite. I found this channel today. I know very little about axes.
My moms from south bay sent me a photo 2 days ago... 117*f.
Yeah, it's been brutal.
Wow...Ted Kazinksky has much to say. Umaky.
I got my first chainsaw today, boss man asked if I could get it running and when I did he gave it to me.
Nuthin' wrong with FREE ;) Good deal. I put a lot of hours behind the saw this weekend, too. Clearing land to begin our small orchard. Can't wait
Yay, orchards!
I'm still wondering how they managed to *hotbox* the whole state of California.. I mean I know weed is legal now guys but daaamn. Gilroy was so hazy it was hard to see the hills from half a mile away. 115 degrees in the shade in Morgan Hill!!
My most recent axe handle search led me to True Temper. There were some pretty excellent blanks featured on Ebay & Amazon recently, but before buying I was reading that people were having opposing experiences with them. Some glowing, some horrible. Seemed like a coin flip to order online, so when I read that they are available at Lowes and HomeDepot I stopped by to check them out.
Well. I can see why the reviews were mixed. If I didn't have my pick of almost 20 handles, I probably would have been disappointed with what they would have shipped me. That said, I walked away with 5 single-bit 36" handles. 1 in 4 passed, then? My requirements were: no runout, no twist, grain orientation
My house handle experience wasn't good, but haven't checked out beavertooth. I"ll have to stop at more big box stores and see what kind of percentages I can find. 1 out of 4 is actually quite good for a hardware store.
Yea Ace Hardware does alright with the Link/Seymore handles, although I've found the double bit variety there to be very slender width-wise. The single bit axes have significant shoulder meat. Home Depot and Lowes carry the Ames True Temper brand, which is equally 'meaty' but not terrible for grain selection. Good luck!
I little follow-up, I ordered (3) 36" double bit handles from House, and placed a note in the online description: "These handles will be used in vintage axe builds, build threads will be posted to enthusiast forums and progress videos may be posted to YT. The components will be reviewed during the build, including the handles. Please ensure the items sent are representative of the +AA finish and House Handle name."
Well, six days later I received three of the nicest double bit handle specimens I've ever seen. Bone dry, zero twist or bend, all tight-grained sapwood with no runout. Grain orientation was perfect on one, and
Yeaaaae I'm homesteading.. Hahaha!
Well, me too practically any more lol. Oh well.
Have you considered trying a Garant axe? They're made here in Canada, your friendly neighbour to the north.
Don't know about those. I'll look into them.
not to mention if you take the time to put together a vintage ax its most likely going to mean a lot more to you.
Excellent point. I like that phenomenon of personal investment in things. It pulls us away from the temporal prostitution mindset and connects us more to our immediate physical world in a way that is meaningful. Thanks.
Sorry to say but my boss bought "Amish" chairs at a place that were chinese imports being resold.