Axe Myth, Grip and Control, Thin v.s. Thick, Tradition v.s. Modern
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2021
- A common comment or criticism is that someone needs a thick handle for control or grip on an axe. The historical record regarding professional users, many other experienced users and old axes, do not support this idea. I think it often indicates a misunderstanding regarding axe use and a lack of experience using thinner handled axes.
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54... darn , yer catchin up on dirt friend . lol , happy day , thinner the better
Thanks mate :) The dirt's coming for all of us. It's a good motivator!
hey Buckin why am i not surprised your watching an axe handle video
My two favorite UA-cam creators communicating. Great to see.
Memento mori
Epic moment in the history of the universe.
I am an engraver by trade, all of my chasing hammers have thinned down handles for "springiness"... commercial handles are way too thick. It's all about ergonomics.
i've come to the point where even the highest quality axes to me are basically just blanks to be tuned or altered. Whether it's thinning handles, grinding bevels or rehanging an axe i really don't mind. I don't expect an axe to chop out of the box to the standard i want it to.
Is this a bad thing? i'm not sure.
also having handled and owned tons of vintage axes, i'd even argue that a lot of them despite being far superior to todays axe handles, still are not that thin.
great to see you back on the axe content and happy birthday Steven!
So, yeah, I totally agree, and even if it comes perfect (which I'm not sure any do, you start using it and pretty soon out comes the file for maintaining a good profile, or repairing chips. My only objections at this point are just shitty work, totally stupid design (i.e. ridiculously thick handles) and defects. some of that is things like the loose hang of cheap axes, but that is part of what makes them cheap. Usually I'm going to go for the sweat equity. As I like to say, an axe is only part of the deal. There is a set of skills that go with owning and using an axe competently. For someone that has done all that stuff, it's not that big of a deal to set up an axe, even if removing a lot of metal with a file. I think that has essentially always been normal. Real permanent head and handle defects that actually matter are another story.
The truly old school thin handles that have actually been tuned down are till the exception, but you do see them on ebay sometimes. But you can contrast most of them to old photos like that broad axe pic I put in for what people did with those stock handles before actually using them in the field. It is very similar to axe grinds. It's really only occasionally that you find an axe that has been ground by someone that was competent enough to understand that you have to get rid of a lot of cheek to chop well. Even those, most of them have been worn back to the point that they need to be re-ground
Killenger and lambratch handles need no work there on point
Another great video. As a blacksmith that makes axes I really enjoy hearing your take on them. All of my personal axes have small and thin handles like yours. I use them almost everyday and they just feel better. Keep up the good work and happy birthday.
I got a BC government double bit axe and the handle on it was insanely thin, worked really nice.
Happy birthday buddy, been watching a few of your videos and started taking some really helpful info in. So i rehung 100+ year elwell for a friend, thin out handle with a raw hide guard. He was overjoyed to get something that felt great in hands.
Thanks for all of your info. I followed your advice on previous videos and I have to say - the a thin handle on a boys axe outworks a beefier larger axe just like you said it does. Nothing beats tool information from people who use rather than collect them.
Happiest of Birthdays! You have been very instrumental to the development of my axemenship. I've seen many older axes at fleamarkets and the like with thinner handles, unfortunately 90% of the handles are at the end of their life, but I have picked up a couple of good ones and then I started shaving down my own handles using the old ones as a template using the technic you explained in a previous video. Thanks for these videos I learn more and more with each one.
I’ve thinned the handle on a couple of my axes because of you and Buckin Billy Ray. Much less hand fatigue! I love it 🤩
Yep, it makes a difference :)
HI LOVE YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND WORK
It's like a repeating lesson that I have to learn again and again, over and over: _question your assumptions._ This is especially the case with tools. We just seem to latch on to the way(s) in which we've learned, and then we don't want to let those techniques go. The following point here is general, and not necessarily keeping axe handles as the locus, but more to do with wood use all around. The varieties of wood that are most abundant here are Maple, Cherry, Beech, and Hemlock. For my purpose, there's pretty much a limitless supply (without harvesting for money). The idea of buying anything wooden has become untenable for me. And since we use what we've got, most of my handle-ish things are made from the first three of those four, with the occasional Hornbeam thrown in. Long story short, I find these varieties to work as well in most cases as any of those species you're traditionally 'supposed to use,' and in most cases, they feel better during use.
So, with respect to wood varieties, what are your commonest materials there, and do you have a certain preference for tool handles? Keep in mind that I'm on the top of the Laurel Mountains, so your trees are totally foreign to me. Happy winter's end, by the way.
Happy Birthday!! I hope you were able to enjoy your day! This video reminded me that I've got one of those bulky axe handles sitting on a shelf that I have been meaning to work on and get it fitted to one of my great grandpa's axe heads. Most of my current axes are in rough shape, so thanks for the inspiration to do something about it today!
Yay, get after it!
I just bought a Marbles hunting axe, 18” overall. It’s the first handle that I’ve used that’s too thin at the bottom I wrapped friction tape around it which makes a nice feel and good sticky grip
My grandfather worked in the logging industry in the first half of the last century, and he used to make his replacement axe handles from scratch. They were thin and similar to what you are suggesting. On another note, you might want to check out one of Bucking Billy Ray’s latest axe videos. He has a handle or handles that he got somewhere that are made of bamboo. It looked pretty interesting and might be right down your alley. I enjoy your channel, keep up the good work.
Happy birthday and good to see you again talking axe stuff. Thanks for that and greetings from Germany!
Crazy how I was dealing with this issue recently, and found this exact video that shares my exact concerns. Recently hung my old flint edge with a store bought handle and it was sooo beefy. Been shaving it down for days now. Hanging my great uncles old hand forged axe and trying to navigate finding a new handle. Great stuff. Subed.
Just caught the last 3 seconds of your live. I have followed your channel for about 2 yrs...mainly in interest of your knowledge concerning axes. I restored an old Penn (?) Felling axe and shaved the handle down so it would flex more. I also made a larger palm swell for control...I recently used it up at my cabin to selectively clear the land. I have never had an axe perform so well in my life! (I grew up cutting 15 cords/yr to heat our house) Thank you for your videos and good advice! God Bless!
yep, good tuning of axes can be a revelation
To the point about hardness of the wood and hand fatigue, I think about those anti-fatigue floor mats for standing on your feet all day. Or even knee pads when installing flooring. There’s a reason those were invented. So interesting to think about the way that occurs in nature, even with handles. Great concepts 👍🏼
I make all my own handles, I also like them trimmed to flex. Thanks for all the great axe info. I’ve learned quite a lot from ur videos. Thanks
Happy birthday! Keep up the good work 👍
Thanks to you, I have started a linseed oil axe handle rampage 👍
Love the axe content! Could you talk about body mechanics in an axe swing to reduce fatigue? I’ve switched my axe swing up from a grippy, full body tense downward baseball swing to more of a downward kettle bell swing with power coming from my hips and my arms being more of a pendulum transferring the force. It made a huge fatigue difference for me and started me wondering if there still isn’t a better way and what are the other bio mechanical things I should be doing or could be doing better.
Happy birthday!!
Thank you for inspiring me to tune my axe!
Been following you ever since.
Thanks :)
Thanks for the birthday present to your viewers! I thoroughly enjoy your axe videos (among others). I don't know why but there's an appeal to using manual hand tools of all sorts.
A belated happy birthday sir - I appreciate the content (esp. today) - and more so your stated intent to affect positive change. I hope people who make axes, both mass produced and bespoke, lend an ear and we see some change. You've changed my way of thinking about chopping for sure - and now stock axe handles look like tree trunks.
EXCELLENT video I agree I do a lot of wood splitting and bush craft I've have sand down many a axe handel's
Happy Birthday brother!! I hope your rolling as smooth as you can in you're part of the world!!
Greetings from the UK.
Nice video, great tips thanks.
I just got an old Brades 353 Criterion 6lbs, possibly stock handle, if not it's old, with two "double cross" steel wedges, can't believe how thin the handle is, and it's beautiful to use despite the weight.
Also, love the birds in the background, they sounded very busy! 🤣
Cheers, stay safe.
PS: Happy Birthday, whenever it falls...
Tim Howe, one of my Patrons, nailed it. It was the very first guess in the chat too! 54 Dude is psychic.
You did mention it in a video when you turned 50 a few years ago. :)
I seem to recall a video a while back where you mentioned being 50 or something like that. I made an educated guess as to how long ago that might have been. Looking forward to my Edholm custom.
@@timhowe2968 That axe will ship out this month lol, promise!
@@SkillCult I wasn't worried. I just figured you were busy with springtime stuff.
Happy birthday Steven. Another great and informative video. Thank you
Thank a-lot for this video. I am carving my first handle for a HB double bit i found. I thought i got carried away and took to much off with the draw knife, but now you save me alot of pain and im just going to hang it and get chopping. Its really hard for me to find a handle for double bits here in québec. I had a piece of maple and i used to practise, i know its not the best wood but its wad i had. All this info will really help me to build my camp out here. Thanks alot for the vid, I just subscribed :)
Great advice, thank you and happy birthday! I have a Plumb single bit and a sager double, both with modern handles. I always suspected there was something odd about them, especially given how TINY the original sager handle was. Now I know it was no mistake!
Yeah, they are often so thin that they will looks weird to modern people. I think that picture I put in of the guy hewing railroad ties speaks volumes about what is possible. That head is no joke.
Great stuff! Yup, I've always hated using off the shelf axes and would wear myself out completely time and time again. Been watching your vids and gaining knowledge and confidence for some time now and I'm very much looking forward to tuning up my Hultafors at some point. The axe head to start at least. Cheers!
Thank you man, the first two and a half minutes of this video really opened my eyes. I'm gonna put this technique to use for sure.
I own two old american axes with what I believe to be the original hickory handles, absolutely killer handles. What I have noticed about them is that they are pretty thin in the lateral dimension of the handle. The old Plumb I own is 21 mm (13/16") but actually pretty wide the front - back dimension. I really love this handle figuration and I think that's why it feels so good - it's the opposite of a club. This leads me to thinking that there is more to it than just the thickness, the the cross cut profile it very important. I think it makes sense to make them sort of a pretty strecthed oval if you close your hand and look at how the fingers come together
Happy birthday Steve! Good to see some more axe nerd stuff from you, that's what got me started watching your channel, and the hand drill got me subscribing.
34 my guess. I have no idea why very informative
I like that lol.
Happy Birthday. Been following you for a while now and always look forward to your content. I'm guessing your turning the big 50.
Thanks Sara :). 54 wha? every girl needs an axe :D
Happy Birthday man I hope you have a good one. All the best from Northern California 👍
Great video my friend. I need xxl gloves and haven’t had an issue with too small handles. Was wondering about your thoughts on the axe you were “giving away “.
Happy Birthday Steven. Great video! Thanks.
Love the sound of the Raven in the background. :)
Thanks for this informative video. I regularly discuss this with my bushcraft friends. We still don't agree on if you should thin down your handle. anyway I prefer to thin mine out.
Great video, greetings Jochem.
Happy birthday and thanks for all your videos! I don’t have a lot of axe-perience yet, but thin handles make sense to me. I actually just bought a cheaper axe to see if I could fix it up (by thinning the handle and such) but I might leave it as an experiment. Maybe I’ll try to use it for a bit before thinning it out and see if there’s a difference in how it performs
Yeah, I think a gradual approach is fine too. I usually keep fiddling with them until they end up where I want them. I think you'll find more difference though when you go back after getting used to a more refined tool.
Good luck with your channel. Hope to see you do the axe cordwood challenge. It's a total sausage fest lol.
Thank you, I’ll do my best!
Hello to France!!! happy to see you again!! Yes your thin handle got me thinking, so i do it for two French axe! It's better for my litle strongest body!! more résilient, and no more vibration!! thank's so lot!!
Agree 100%. Thx for great informative axe videos! Very good!
My favourite handle is on a Tassie pattern Ferro Forserum. It's thin and feels amazing in hand. 70 odd years old.
That black and white picture was pretty cool. It’s absolutely insane how thin the handle was in that picture.
especially for the size of the head.
Happy Belated Birthday, Steven. Hope all is well in northern California. An axe handle should conform to your hand naturally like a "U", I agree. Dudley Cook made a similar reference in his book.
Steven. Your one honest outlaw. Ty 4 ur work ethic.
Fantastic channel....Very informative and educational. Especially with the axe technology...Much Respect to your drive and dedication to your craft and passion. Information overload!!!!! Thanks again Brother...New Sub here...glad I found you. Much Respect from St Petersburg Florida
Welcome :)
Great axe content as usual. Keep them coming!
Man, you are ancient! Happy birthday !
When you talk about wood density for weight reduction - so far out of the +/- 60 handles that I've made from scratch I found that for carving hatchets Golden birch and mulberry wood are the best next to maple.
There was a guy on Facebook that showed some Helko Werk axe which handle beats the TT by much, enough wood for two handles...
ATB !
The flip side of this is that one basically has a blank to work with, in terms of handle customization. If the grain orientation is good, it just leaves you material to work with. Anyways, I’m far more concerned with the shape and steel quality of the head. To me the handle is like the stock exhaust on a new Harley...the first thing that gets modified.
Overall though, I am 💯with you on the thin, almost sexy old-school handle. Got a vintage cruiser at a dnr/CCC surplus auction; and, the handle is a sleek, sexy beauty. Thin and curvy in all the right places. Would love to spend a day with the guy that worked on that thing.
love watching your videos man I got a 26 inch hb I am trying to thin down because my hands have been seriously locking up after a couple hours of chopping hard wood.
I know that axe. It's the same as the husqvarna branded version. It's way too thick, though the true temper has it beat by a mile.
Happy birthday Steven! I use the awl I got from you all the time still.
I have an abundance of black walnut trees. I was wondering about tanning with only walnut hulls. I actually live in an area where we sell nuts to the hammonds nut CO. So hulls are VERY easy for me to get.
Another great one. Happy birthday, your knowlegde is way greater than your age!
Also id like to touch on the paradigm shift.
I'm a union carpenter and they now try to make us use sledge hammers with super flexible abs and rubber handles that have probably 40 degrees of deflection when swinging...
The down side is there is no steering, its like shooting an arrow, once you start your swing you cant make any real adjustment. Also they function horribly if you dont have room for a full swing and have to short stroke it.
Positive side, its fun to use like target practice, and almost zero shock through the arms.
I bet those take a lot of practice. somewhere on the net there are vids of some guys in a quarry using really heavy sledge heads on very long, extremely flexible handles. But they do it all day.
Thanks for the vid. Happy Birthday 🎈 ✌🏻
Excellent observation(s). Especially for "smaller" framed or physically "weaker" folk. No insult intended. Experience is invaluable. Keep it up young man.
Happy belated birthday Steven.
I am grateful you put this one out. Partly because of you I recently got three cheap american, forged axes to play with & practice on. I was hating on the diminutive Marbles axe handles until I watched this. I still think the handle is light on the splitting maul they call a hunting axe. Time will tell after I De convex the bit a little. Happy B day man. I am guessing you are not so far from my generation at maybe 48-49?
45
Steven, you're right. I have never heard 'this axe handle needs to be thickened up a bit.' or 'My uncle put an axe head on a 2x4 and man, did it chop great!'
Happy birthday! Thanks for all your input! Guessing 47 for yucks...
Keep em coming please!
What do you think of cherry for a handle? I was looking for locust, haven’t come across any yet, I have pin oak as well. Osage orange is another option, thoughts? Have a great day!
I dont' know cherry. It doesn't grow here. I've never heard of using it and am guessing not so much. If youa re East Coast, ash, hornbeam, rock maple, and White oak are all used traditionally. Sometimes I've heard maple only for straight handles.
Same principles apply to auto body hammers for vintage sheet metal work. Thin the handles, loosen the grip, only smooth hickory. I will do this to my axes now (vintage re-made axes to these specs)
I really enjoy your axe content. I can't be certain, but it seems to me that the poor quality handles must stem from major shortcuts on the manufacturing side. On one hand, axe handles are fairly simple, but for anyone who has made them, they will know there is a fair bit to it...especially when it comes to hanging the handle. Which brings me to my next point. It seems all the hardware store brands like true temper etc just use this wierd mortise and tennon and glue method...which is hiteous and doomed to fail. Anyways, Happy birthday!
I thought even tho i don't know if you speak spanish, you might enjoy this video about competition vasque country handle making, the dude is awesome and his work too. Fist part is about saws, and from minute 16:20 thre appears the cool axe dude. You might find it putting this on you searcer: "Los cortadores de madera. Técnicas tradicionales del corte y transformación de madera". On the same channel you can find many doccumentaries about logging, making charcoal and many many ancient arts (vegetable tissues, wool, essential oils...). In fact i there are more than 3 thousand doccumentaries. A real treasure for us spanish people (and i think for humans in general), as our legacy is being forgotten and people who knows it is diying day by day.
Wish you good health.
that channel is so good. My spanish is pretty weak. My good friend is Mexican though, so she can translate for me. it's her favorite channel.
Well said!
Just got the council tool 2 1/4 lb boys axe basic and the velvicut version to compare. Handle on the velvicut is perfect and the wedging is traditional wooden + metal cross wedge. Thinner handle out the box and slightly better hang. Head feels softer out of the box than the basic. Still not a ridiculous price but the basic version is still your best value out there I believe.
Axe companies need to listen to Steven. He's a smart man.
Beautiful information love it !
Thanks Joe :) Hope all is well with you.
Happy Birthday Steven! Love you ☺️
:) 💖
You influenced me to like thinner handles so id be happy to see u influence the industry. I think the council tools boys axe handle is where tool manufacturer should make there specs too. Thin enough to yous but also enough meat to tune it to where u want. Happy birthday as well.
Yeah, I think you are right on council handles. If I made a prototype, I might make it a bit thinner, but it's totally acceptable.
Greetings from the Emerald Isle of Ireland 🇮🇪🇮🇪, love your videos,very knowledgeable man, on axed,
Happy Birthday !
Happy birthday and you are absolutely correct in your discussion of handle thickness. Unfortunately there are channels out there that folks follow blindly who live in gated communities and claim to be “homesteaders” that promote handles and tools that to be “proper” need to be over built thick stump like things.... using phrases like “it feels solid and secure and American “ 😂🤣😂🤣
lol.
Hi Steve!!😀😀
Happy birthday my friend!!
You just caught up with me. But only till March second. I knew that also but I was a little slow getting to watch the video.
I really love a thin older style handle also. I came across a collection of axes at a junk store that all must have come from the same person. Thin handles excellent profiles on the heads and very sharp. This person that previously owned them I do believe grew up with them and a crosscut saw. I never found out who the person was but I love several of his axes and a couple have became my go to axes.
Have you ever checked out Chris Killingers axe handles that he sells.
He has has some Amish people reproducing replicas of the old thin handles. There's little to no work needs to be done to them except hafting them. They are using hickory and red elm to make them out of. Bad thing is when he gets a batch of them in they usually sell out within a day or so. They are a little expensive but if you figure in the time you save on having to shape them they are definitely worth it.
Good to see you buddy!!😀😀
How's the limes disease been lately?
Hopefully it's been better.
Take care my friend!!😀😀❤🎂🎂
Logger Al
I'm feeling better in general and more functional than last year. There are still decent handles available that are not botique handles, but they are becoming less common
@@SkillCult good to hear!!
55 - your videos are awesome
Do you roll your hips in with the strike like turn your hips over during the strike for power or do you keep them level ??
I don't really know. I should watch some footage.
SUBSCRIBED! WOW got me in the first 20 secs! Thankyou. Ok getting and education... watching.
55...thanks for sharing your perceptions.
Crow be like "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu"
You’ve definitely helped move the average axe user towards more utilitarian ends. But that said, the general consensus is still that thicker handles are better because they won’t break as easily, and while that’s probably true to a point, that’s not the only concern when chopping. I’m glad you weighed in on this again. More axe content, please. Thanks!
I think it depends on the stresses. some stresses break handles in the middle, but my suspicion is that if you looked at random bulk axe breakages, most initiate in the eye area and thick handles can put more stress on parts of that. What would make much more sense is to make the eye larger along with the handle. But it's hard to break down all of the factors involved and be sure where thickness helps and doesn't and for whom.
Also be hard to make sure woods were homogeneous. I’ve had two handle breaks in my life. One was an old splitting axe when I was 13, and I just seriously bashed it on a block with an over strike. The other was just two weeks ago felling a tree. On the 90 degree cut it sheared right where the grain ran out of the handle. I’m convinced grain orientation doesn’t matter at all on anything less than 32”.
Another delightful axe video
What dimensions are you going for? Understand if you just go on feel (I did for a decade). I recently ended up with some digital calipers I bought for setting ignition timing on an engine, so I've been checking my finished handles and using it to monitor where I'm at carving new handles. Somewhere around 0.72" is where I start to really like it, with the other axis being basically double that.
Yeah, I'm not a big measurer of things. I think it usually ends up around 3/4 inch thick though, so similar to what it sounds like you're ending up at. Pieces of wood vary, so I hesitate to give people dimensions. I like the two finger push test! ua-cam.com/video/MtycSBUtP0o/v-deo.html otherwise, I just go by feel and try not to overthink it.
Damn! I would've gotten it. I've been in the woods all day cutting wood with no service (kind of a blessing). I remember a couple years ago you said you were 52 and it surprised me. Oh well I still have the Original old Rockstar council tool axe with the messed up handle hanging in the garage. I still pull it out and give the woodpile hell on occasion!!
Cool, that thing was in a lot of videos and did a lot of work! Careful, that handle is so ready to go all the way ha ha.
Belated happy birthday laddie! Raise a dram to you later on.
How much rugby do you get to watch?
Another informative video for me...a novice in woodcraft, yet skilled at splitting. I think you’re my age. 39 going on 40.
Good stuff! Can't agree more. Related to this is those awful plastic handles. I have a splitting maul that I keep as an example of a bad tool. The plastic handle lacks something, perhaps the "snap back" you mentioned. Additionally the edge is so far it will not bite into the wood. It just bounces off. Horrible tool
Splitting maul is actually the only place I use fiberglass handles. I just like them because they are hard to break and I'd rather be splitting wood with impunity than worrying about breaking handles. But they do kind of suck. I like the flexibility of mine, but the plastic coating sucks and it is very dense.
@@SkillCult oh, I agree with that. The one I have is some sort of tough plastic. It flex’s too much. Works ok for destruction, sucks for splitting.
I don't mind fat varnish coated handles. I get to thin it down and shape it into my idea of perfection, and the varnish helps keep moisture out until I get around to doing it.
sure, but there are still issues. Wood waste is one lol. Also, a thick handle will always warp less if it is inclined to. That may be one reason for thicker handles, is that you can use lower quality wood and lose less to warpage. Sometimes when you thin them, the internal stresses are expressed as warpage.
Great info, great insight, great video... thanks for sharing and adding value to the axe community! Peace, Rooster :)
Thanks Rooster :)
I make my own axe handles for the exact reasons you described about modern handles.
Happy belated birthday!
I thin all my handles love you vids , Happy Birthday I’ll say 50
Great Information. Getting into Axe world. I say your 45
Just like baseball players have their own personal preference regarding thicknesses of their bats perhaps the same applies to axes, it’s a personal preference?? Also the different sizes of hands may effect the personal preferences of axe handle size.
Thankyou for your service.=)
Actually I have been fortunate enough to try out a Liam Hoffmann axe. And it just blew my mind how thin it is, it's like a piece of a spaghetti! It felt very weird and I was kind of afraid to break the handle, lol
That's good to hear. As I recall, his older handles were pretty thick.
The problem with the manufacturing side is a lot of them (especially the overseas crowd) are getting their marketing materials from people who use, but not USE, their axes, and are unwilling to modify their $200 axe. Especially since Council Tool has a big-name designer on their payroll, who still cant figure this out..
For the first time I think on youtube, a man who knows about handles. He's right about when they started to get to obnoxious thicknesses in the 70's and today's handles are quite ugly in design and thickness. I've swung axes now for over 70 years and I know a bit about wood cutting and my theory is you cut wood with the head not the handle. With thick handles you spend all your energy controlling, or to be more precise, trying to control the handle rather than the head. When you do this you lose accuracy and I'm yet to watch a chopper, on youtube actually hit the same place multiple times when cutting. I believe a lot of the cause is the handle. Thanks for the video.
There are good choppers on UA-cam now, but many are there because of the cordwood challenge I started. When I started doing axe content on youtube, you could hardly find a good example of chopping and very few effective modification videos. Thanks for weighing in.