Aion 3 ~ The Shadow: The Most Terrifying Idea in Psychology
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- The Shadow is the most intense and USEFUL concept in Carl Jung's work. Myself and James dig deep into it here in the Book that TERRIFIES Jordan Peterson: Carl Jung's Aion.
~
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Seventeen years ago,I lost the best job I ever had, my marriage, and my home all at the same time. That great upheaval was the beginning of the greatest period of personal growth in my life.
Exactly the same, only I've had it happening five years ago. Know how it feels. God bless.
@@mojokic 4yrs ago. Yes. Its been a long journy in this time. But a journy of self gnosis.
@@vu3atg835 You must lose yourself in order to find where you want to go.
@@vu3atg835 Leave the gold, there are diamonds in another cave. Just leave.
My rude awakening started 3yrs ago due to my family break up. My world for 40yrs was shaken up so much I was back under mother's wing for protecting my state, and the home work my doctor gave me helped the sleepless nights. Never liked the reviews regards medicine to deal with depression and alcohol to sleep
"The Shadow is ... not universally evil, [but rather] ... universally opposite." - ☆☆☆☆
On spirituality: While spiritual bypassing and toxic positivity is common in the west, this isn't how buddhism or any of the major eastern philosophies operate. Meditation for example is the very act of allowing the subconscious and shadow to rise up and be accepted and integrated. If you're not doing this, you're simply not doing the practice.
May I ask how can I rise my subconscious and shadowself during meditation? Or does it just happen when simply meditating? I thank you regardless
@L Clet us fix ourself, mother nature will take care of the world that polutes her natural state.
@L C balance balance balance
@@darkknight3251 Thích Nhất Hạnh said, 'Anger is like a howling baby, suffering and crying. The baby needs his mother to embrace him. You are the mother for your baby, your anger. The moment you begin to practice breathing mindfully in and out, you have the energy of a mother, to cradle and embrace the baby. Just embracing your anger, just breathing in and breathing out, that is good enough. '
Look up mooji, he clarifies a lot of stuff
"The tree that goes up to heaven has it's roots in hell. " You cannot percieve the universal union within yourself without looking and accepting first the parts of yourself that you don't like and project on the world. As long as you don't see the evil in yourself you'll always be short of one half of the Union.
One thing I don't like about Peterson's take on the shadow is the he seems to beileve that evil is ontological and not relative, which I think is extremely dangerous because that's exactly how the shadow operates: it gets you to divorce yourself from your own evil so that, in that lack of awareness, it can possess you.
Haha if you're dropping acid to 'avoid the bad things and focus on the good' then you just aren't taking enough!
Anuma finally someone who takes acid properly, to get scared shitless by your own brain and not just "see the pretty colours"
Shrooms make me see everything bad in high doses...only did acid once didn't take enough to to change my perception of reality like shrooms did
Fuck yeah
Lsd is like being an analytical critic, and psilo is like a wild tour guide pointing at all this shit while vomiting information. I love both though.
What do you guys consider a high dose. 5gs? 300 mics?
When i play video games, fortnite, and theres someone whos better than me, or not even that but just kills me a couple of times, i very very often lose my mind, and start going off on them that i want to smash their face and beat the fuck out of them.
Tyler is seen as the antagonist but I view him as the protagonist - He is the sub-conscious of western man that uncucks his self. He proceeds to break the conditioning of other men, they form a tribe and he trains them to be both physically and mentally stronger. After they break free the tribe moves on to wage war against consumerism and the modern world.
Yes there's an aspect of that
But fundamentally the story is about the narrator defeating Tyler in order to transform enough to form a relationship with Marla
The sequel begins with "Jack" and Marla married with a kid
@@uberboyo There is a sequel?!?!
@@medotata5356 yup - in comic book form i believe
Tyler didn't make them stronger, though. He conditioned them into mindless obedience. That's not strength.
@@Yggi11 it's discipline. Discipline is strength.
I Just died at both of your "ITS NO JOKE" Jordan Peterson thingy.
Love you guys
"He's chosen a pointless life because he doesn't want to go into the part of himself that has a point"
Great insight. I find this paralleled to school shooters acting out their shadow: Jordan Peterson said when lobsters where given anti depressants they where able to bypass their defeated/ lower status on the dominance hierarchy to challenge such the high position, most if not all the school shooters where definitely on anti-depressants.
Artistic Scrying Tarot your welcome.. I know tons with the same story, especially millennial. Seems like a neurotic conditioning created by the way we are programmed to interact with society - lots of repression too. jungs process of individuation helped me immensely. This may not relate to you.. But my friends who used antidepressants ‘with’ psilocybin mushrooms or replaced them (Ssri;’ and nsri’s)with microdoses of that mushroom told me it saved their life -way more than just one or two people I know personally, all independently.. it works very much like anti-depressants but better since you eventually won’t need them. They permanently rewire the brain into a more comfortable homeostasis in less than three months usage. No longterm side-effects, or withdrawals. Just thought I would throw this out there, they pair very well with jungs model of the psyche.
I enjoyed the part about thinking you know everything... realizing you truly know nothing is where wisdom can be born because only then can you honestly start seeking out answers (and brutal honesty can be a truly terrifying facet to come into contact with). And then when you find such answers they are no longer such identity-defining or solid possessions, but instead more fluid concepts which seem to make more sense to be both true and false simultaneously. I read in a book called Wetiko a method which describes a level of definition, or perception to be of 4 factors - true, false, both true and false, neither true nor false. Understanding, or more so, experiencing this idea can allow you to think much more freely. However I would assume this type of understanding/knowing, or the perception of understanding, can only come at a certain level of your own self-awareness during the individuation process.
I was a prick growing up!
Been attempting to explore the shadow to be a better person
how did your exploration attempts unfold, when embarking on the journey deep within, some 9 months ago now ? Can u define how u were branded a prick?
Same here. I was always bulliying the weak. And i had a couple of not so smart classmates, and i was hoping they get a bad grade. I deleted stupid and wrote not so smart. And i realize that. But what do i do know? Im evil. Now what?
@@Zelchinho n k k. K kk. K k k k k k k. K k k. K k k. K k k o k k k k. N k. K. K k k kk. K kn kkk kk. K kk kknk k k. K kkk. K k k k k k k kk k k k kkk k k n k k. K kkk kkkkkk k k k kk k k k. N k k. K kk k k k k k k kk k k k. K k. K. Kkk k k k k k k. K kk. Kk k k k kk k k k k k kk k k. K k k k k k k. K n k k k k. Kkkk k k k k k kk k k kk k k k k k kk k k k k k k k k k k k. K k k k k k k k kk k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k kk k k k k k k k k k k k k k k kkk. K k k k k k k k. K k k kk. K kk k k k kk kk k k k k k k k k k k k k kk k k k k k k k k k k k k k kk k k k kk k k kk k kkk k k k k k k k. K k k kk. K kk k k kk. K k n k k k k k k no k k kk kk nkk k k k k k k kk. K k no k k k k k k no k k k k kk k kk kk k k kkkk k kkn kkjk no k k k kk k k k k j k k. K kk k. K k kk k k kk k k k k kkk k k k kk k k k kk k k k k k k k k k k kk k kk kkkk k no k kkk k kk k kk k kk k k n k k kkk k kk k k kkkkkk kkk k j kk k kkk k kk kkk n kk k k k kk k k k k m0lkkmmm
@@psmart4948iiii
@@psmart4948 mm
In order to fully assess your shadow you must lift yourself from the floor which keeps you grounded. The shadow under your foot is the darkest and closest to you. Don’t expect to identify your shadow with full resolution without losing your footing.
"I wanted him hung, drawn and quartered immediately!", 😂
I'm late in discovering this, but I've been enjoying watching you 2 for over a week now. I get a lot out of the content, honesty, sharp observations, and the humor of this program.
I've been in a ongoing crisis that is reaching a pinnacle now, and studying Jung and applying deep shadow work has kept me in the game this far, with the grace of Providence.
Thank you!
Yeah that bit cracked me up
Really enjoyed this. I am the college kid staring at a Buddha poster after dropping acid attempting to see beautiful things all the time 😅 . Dead on lol. I am digging into the uncomfortable parts of the psyche now. Thanks for this wonderful conversation!
this is absolutely how it is..... that energy in you can be also triggered and or jump into somebody else and act its will out on YOU! tis uncomfortable at best and mirror - warrior work.
I love that you mentioned that shadows are not always the "bad" aspects, that people also express what society deems bad and repress what normally would be deemed good.
I really like how you speak of the shadow in terms of a character such as Tyler Durden. That was a GREAT scene and way to start this conversation with a visual example.
I am used to thinking of the shadow as traits, aspects, emotions but of course, now that I hear you say it, the conglomeration of those traits etc would be a personality or character. The example you used of the jesus character as the shadow of the prisoner is a great visual.
I have a shadow integrating guided meditation I found on youtube that I enjoy doing where I am coming upon a tree in a field and some character that is a visual representation of a trait I need to integrate is just barely peeking out from behind a tree. Each trait is a character that I recognize as myself and proceed to sit diwn with and have a conversation where I apologize and feel deep empathy and sorrow for ignoring them and invite that character lovingly back to be a celebrated, expressed aspect of myself.
After hearing this I am going to get in touch with what kind of charater the combined traits might be. Thank you for this wonderful conversation. I am only a third way through and am very curious what else I may learn from you.
Ok, I listened more now and will share this:
I spent many years reading thousands of books to understand why humans treat each other the way we do. Mostly I trying to fix what I felt was wrong with myself. I read everything from Self-help, philosophy, etiquette, biographies, quantum physics, psychology and behavior to everything that those books branched out into spirituality, eastern religion, science of mind etc..and ton of other stuff.
Anyway I created a self that could walk into any room and instantly own the room, I always thought since my intention was always for good I thought that it is ok for me to have influential power. I told myself that I was better than those bastards that just take advantage and use people because I was about empowerment. Ha!
Funny years I spent as "her." The one I created. Only I didn't know she was a her, I thought she was me. I didn't refer to her as her but as me. Self improvement is that. My self is something I own, not who I am.
Now that I am older( and wiser?) Than what? Ha!
I know that "she" is like something I can put on if I choose to and I need to be in that space of what is possible through that character but I know that she is a creation and so lately I have not really spent any time as her. I know that I enjoyed life as her but I also am learning new things like how to say no to people and not be worried about what they think and how to chill out.
I am doing videos but even though putting her "on" would probably be more commercially successful and more convincing to people who don't know better I am practicing just being settled in what happens to naturally express from within me ( don't know what that means exactly) partly what I have become aware of is that I am not being something that is outside of myself. When I am her I don't have as much of an ability to actually neutrally observe. As her I am in more of a noticer of all the good in others and facilitator of bringing that out. But that means that I am overlooking a person's wholeness and ability to make poor choices.
As a whole person I am less impressive to others and they are less impressive to me but I think my presence of mind resides comfortably within me and it feels somewhat relaxing. Not exciting but also not grasping, expecting, disappointed, resentful, and ultimately not so judgemental if people are not self-improving.
That is SO awesome that you assumed that you were wrong about everything for a year. Great. So there was a year when I went through a heartbreaking deconstruction that I fought hard against but I see the world and myself clearer since.
It is SO refreshing to hear someone go down into those really hard questions about human value in the face of genocides and people who get away with it. Sometimes my mind starts going into the perspective that we are like self organizing amoebas coming and going and who cares.
I want to answer the questions but someone said to me recently that after all the research no one can really say exactly what the sun is, THE SUN! Its right there! So Im still earning to relax. I don't need answers as much as I used to think I did and I don't believe anything I think.
That is not very inspiring to others, they look at me perplexed and dismayed when I tell them that I don't believe my thoughts but I get it so thats enough.
Just now I woke from a lucid dream that I drifted off into while listening.
I was in an unfamiliar new gym and I accidentally walked into the men's locker room. I was standing naked in front of the mirror and this black man I liked that Imet previously walked up to use the mirror, I still didn't see him or realize that I was in the wrong place until I noticed him looking at me and my aging body , not mean, not attracted but just smiling to himself, amused that I am oblivious to the fact that I am in the mens locker room. I look up, saw him and other men are walking in and dont really notice me or it's no big deal to them because I realize that my body is soft and old and nothing to be excited about. I hurriedly grab my things and walk out. My hands are full, I am looking to find the women's room trying unsuccessfully to pull the towel around my sagging butt.
Thought: shadows are not just embracing traits but also morphing into different life phases and embracing the moment are lives are in. Am I the glowing angelic older wise woman or am I the decrepit hag?
An old shadow of mine was if I didn't work out I felt like a puffy white larvae. Now I have been staying inside due to the pandemic and allowing myself to be a slug like never before. Its difficult to accept.
One last thing ha ha! A tragic shadow story now is rhe Gabriel Fernandez story on Netflix.
He was originally being raised by two kind loving gay dads, his mother had been gang raped, she was with his step dad who is a 280 pound security gaurd. He was a sweet, kind innocent 8 year old boy and just watch it the shadow elements are huge. I thought of it when you spoke of the one who raped and killed and hated the vulnerability and did it to teach them a lesson.
People really need to wake up about shadows, the vulnerable innocents in our society bear the brunt of our ignorance.
One other, Ted Bundy who's mother was a church lady who wore the face of purity in public and Ted was a reminder that she was sinful. He has to split himself and learned to hide, he was genius at it.
M.Scott Peck wrote "The People of the Lie"
I saw a story on (60 minutes?) Years ago about a mother and her boyfriend that abused her son and blamed him for being a delinquent. The boyfriend killed his pet goat in front of him. When the mother sat in court with the son she lovingly stroked his hair and spoke sweetly. They put cameras in the house that caught terrible abuse and when she was interviewed about it she insisted that she couldn't understand why he was SO messed up! Augh.
Another great book is "Meeting the Shadow" the hidden power of the dark side of human nature.
Eckhart Tolle said that every single thought we identify with is ego. Whether it be "I am so great, I am better than you " or I am so awful, I am worse than you." So I say also that every thought we dis-identity with is shadow.
Thanks again, I wish for you massive success, however you define it.
I've never thought bad of anyone, always realized I was simply not living up to my potential, and that it was all my fault. So I guess I did everything right. Which I'm now denying because I don't do anything right. I guess I was lucky enough to develop the right attitude towards this issue by accident
Same bro same🧐
I had just watched William Shakespeare’s King Lear, played by Anthony Hopkins, such a great performance hands down. Anthony Hopkins does a great job portraying his shadow, I found one scene in particular which was mind blowing, where King Lear (Anthony Hopkins), he furiously asks everyone“Who is it that can tell me who I am?” and a character called “The Fool” appears and says “You’re the shadow”.
Any video that opens with Fight Club is good thing in my Book.
There's a psychologist (Robert Johnson) that said eastern/asian philosophy never divorced sacred and secular worlds so tragically and destructivey such as the west- and it's interesting how part of Buddhist conduct states something along the lines of how you should view yourself as the lowest most naive person when entering a conversation or interaction like you said. Buddhisms pretty advanced in that way
Spot oM
Imagine the people be like 0)__0) HI (0__(0 Howdy 0)__0) whats up (0__(0 I dont know 0)__0) oh man thats ok (0__(0 I dont know 0)__0) yeah me either (0__(0
I have listened to one of these three nights in a row. Love your all's takes on jung because his books are so hard to read
James, you read with such passion that it send shivers up the spine. Steafan, you don't need to do anything special, you're lucky because your accent and natural pacing does it for you. Boyos, you hit it out of the park with this one, thank you and well done.
There is so much being discussed, that seems to be so on the money about current and past cathartic experiences that I'm beyond grateful I came across you both discussing these complex but organic components of man. The synchronicity (another Jungian concept I believe) is stark. I don't know whether I'm shell shocked, or just trying to avoid the precipice of a breakdown thst I've been walking for at least two years and of a magnitude that I may never come back from. Lots of very hard to believe,and difficult for me to understand external factors and forces. But this is helping me immensely in understanding the dynamics and keeping me grounded I feel, until the dust begins to settle. Thank you.
Great to hear Niall - the shadow is ever present and must be confronted, but it's in no way easy
I ALWAYS advise people to be practical when confronting this stuff - FOCUS INTENSELY on eating clean and livign a generally healthy lifestyle, so that when dark things come up you are more Based when trying to deal with them
@@uberboyo Yes , you're right , lifestyle wasn't helping things at all, Thank you Steafan.
Soooooo important - remain practical! That grounds the spiritual!
What a kick ass podcast this is great ! I'm very glad I found it and will look forward to listening / watching even more ! Well done for diving into this material head first btw, most people are too afraid to do this stuff properly.
I was in the hospital last week for 5 days. Bob was in the bed next to me when his whole family came to vist him. But they weren't there to see him really. It was clear his mind was no longer working properly. They had to sign away his sovereignty. Then the hospital crew had to tie him down and take away his control and free agency by force. There was just enough Bob left in his mind to realize what was happening to him. Very chilling. Reminds me of the opening chapter of "Metamophosis" Franz Kafka. They took control of his flesh. But where is Bob? Slowly being mentally disassembled.
Randomly found this podcast today by searching for "Jordan Peterson on Luciferianism" and I'm quite enjoying it. I began listening about an hour ago and was completely sucked into it.
Great commentary, keep up the good work
Hahaha I wonder if many people are searching that!
Found this site yesterday haven't stopped yet. If I had all this information that he is sharing back in the day of my Awakening it would have blown my mind and would have been hard to believe. I'm very aware and it's so nice do you have all of it in one place. What a great job they're doing.
Alan Watts referred to the shadow as “the element of irreducible rascality”
Fuck Alan Watts
Fuck you
Why do I feel something growing inside my head?
@@angeltraegerocana5238 it’s ah tumah
@@angeltraegerocana5238 jk but I have felt that as well quite frequently
At least in the beginning, you miss the fact that the shadow is unconscious. You can only grasp at it (bring it conscious) through the individuation process, as you discuss. The Connor McGregor example is incorrect because he logically cannot hide the shadow because it's an unconscious reflex when it projects onto the world.
But really great conversation, definitely enjoyed.
@Bob Wilson Still incorrect. This is deeper than fight or flight adrenal responses, which do not cause existential crises. You only become conscious of it if your personality has been corrupted by the shadow, in which case your life has turned to shit (to put it in laymen's terms). The shadow is depression, anxiety, embarrassing thoughts, projections, etc. It's only conscious when you have a higher consciousness, which the vast majority of people do not.
@Bob WilsonAgree to disagree. At this point you're just talking past me. And of course you're not born with a personality.
Also, you're clearly projecting your boy psychology complex ie know it all trickster on me. Wish you the best.
Did you know that the 12 steps of aa and NA is the same exact thing? These steps (facing your shadow) can literally help with 99% of problems.
"You have the capacity to be someone like a school shooter."
"No! -- They're just psychopaths!"
That's the kind of reaction an artist I know would give...
Or so I used to think.
Very much enjoyed to hear both of your unique perspectives and insights.
There's so much depth on each page that a thousand lifetimes would be insufficient for the proper exploration of these ideas.
I look forward to more -- sadly, I have but one life.
Well Jung is associated with Gnosticism and Gnosticism believes everyone is saved except those that deny Gnosis and those that don't achieve Gnosis will just be reincarnated until they achieve Gnosis!
@@pittfan240 we'll be getting into gnosticism in upcoming streams!
@@uberboyo I definitely came to Jung through Gnosticism. Started learning about Jung through Skip's Carl Jung Depth Psychology Reading group. Excited to soak up as much I can from both your channels. I remember reading a comment that suggested that Dr. Jordan Peterson because so popular because the collective unconscious decided he was the vehicle need to emphasize the importance of Logos. Seeing that BTS named their new album Map of the Soul: Personal and the group seems to be taking over the world maybe the collective unconscious is using them to show humans need more than just logos!
@@pittfan240 Skip is a G, big respect to him!
Your comments on wanting to draw and quarter the guy that was what you wanted to be were very interesting. I’ve found even if you have the ability to recognize the implications of your intense jealousy, it doesn’t make it easier to identify what exactly about the other person is the ideal you desire. Not sure if that’s because you don’t want to know or if you haven’t discovered in an intellectual way the ideal your body is perceiving.
I have to interject that Buddha taught to lean into your demons, to look at what is difficult. It's the upstream path against human nature.
November 29th, "Black Friday" - the day after Thanksgiving.
it's 6am the morning here now on the island of Oahu, Hawaii.
I am awake and stumbling around UA-cam this morning, and very happy to see this video waiting for me.
the intro was perfect, I'm now enjoying this (:
have a god day
you definitely have some shadow traits😂 u bad! I enjoyed your impression of Jordan B Peterson LOL!!!
The shadow isnt just negative things its also all our disowned light and godliness- thats the source of guru seeking where we project that onto others- you make it sound it very dualistic like bad people have a good shadow but 99 percent of folks have both good and bad aspects they have disowned
I love that you asked to name your shadow traits. This interview is so much more interesting than my videos. Im still holding back.
Anyway, ok, Shadow traits for you:
1. Dullard
2. Sloth
3. The careless mind, whatever is the opposite of open curiosity- obtuseness?
4. Knucklehead stupid jughead guy.
5. Slick metropolitan manipulator
6. Magician of made-up illusory self that intends to pull people in with a set up image in order to sell stuff.
James shadow:
1.Ignorant
2.Muscle man
3.The Christopher Walken character on SNL, the " would you like more.
champagne-na guy.
4. Football beer guy.
Min 30.20. We are afraid of knowing ourselves so much than when we see what are we capable of in others we isolate them. ( of course prison for dangerous people) but our attitude when we find out something evil happen is to forget
The fight club...one of my favorite movies! At first I didn't know why, yet I completely understood what was happening waaayyyyy before anyone else did who was watching. The same with all movies like this. Like Stutter Island. I have been diagnosed with everything under the Sun, with some on so far end of the extreme that at the time I didn't believe in mental health because everyone I saw would tell me something different. From major depressive disorder, to bipolar, antisocial, and borderline personality. Was even going to get kicked out of a rehab because they believed I was antisocial personality disorder, they couldn't help me and their other clients were in danger including their staff. Until my Counselor walked into that meeting with the DMS and pointed out they couldn't diagnosis that disorder within a year of heavy drug use with my intake papers that clearly stated an amount that I actually lied about because my true amount doesn't sound believable. After that, I saw a therapist through the courts ( because I had major legal problems lol ) this is coming off a run that sent me to prison 7 times and jail about 30. But who that was, wasn't me. People would say these gnarly violent stories about me. I didn't know what they were talking about. I believed it was gossip, they made it up. But it worked for me. Cause I sold drugs. If people feared me, they wouldn't try nothing stupid. No one ever did. Some things I remember, some come back in dreams or Meditation. I have caused my own PTSD. I working on transmuting my own inner energy. I have discovered through listening to your Red Book, which made total sense to me. And another man, Skeed Meditations. How to do that with visionary techniques. I have a powerful mind. Through creating Beings, I have also discovered that things I have seen throughout my life, along with the people with me. We're my creations. When I thought of anger. A Being popped in my head, that appeared in a time I was very angry. At its peak. Just lost my kids, with no control over it and couldn't see them. Going through the revenge on a narcissist , from 6 years of abuse which lead to my addiction, prison term( it wasn't my case and he let me take the fall but if course, couldn't ever admit it) and that's when someone else took the driver's seat. Who I was, was no longer home. Once I signed those papers and got on that bus headed back to jail. I became the shadow. I fell the shadow take over. And I let it. Like the fight club, the shadow was the people's God. The Queen of the Damned. Without fear. Exactly like fight club. Then I saw that one therapist. He was a specialist in multiple personality disorder, he called it at the time. But told me I had, dissociative personality disorder. So he wouldn't freak me out 😅 He would always talk about these people he cared for without using their names. It shut me down. It was like something inside of me told me, he knows who we are. Don't talk. But then one day I did. He asked me what I was looking at, without thinking I responded. " The movie" , he asked, What movie? Where?" I pointed, off I'm the distance, at the wall. " That movie, it plays my life on it. Keeps it out of my brain. So I don't have to feel it. I don't have to hold it close. It's safe, out of my aura. And over there" That was the day I got my diagnosis. Because they like to label things. That's fine, then we can identify what needs to be worked on. But with my shadow out and in the open. I was able to work on it directly. But then I switched roles. I am myself now. I feel the shadow in me. It's off to the left hand side. I mostly feel it on my leg. If I need it, I can will it out. But it's hard to put back in. It sounds totally insane to someone that doesn't understand. I have to come to a place of full surrender. Usually in the shower, on my knees. And see the dark clean off me. Not many will under. I am always open to learning new things. Cause I am like a sponge to other people's energies. And I don't know how to manage my gifts. Or even what all they are. But I know that I can think, and manifest my emotions. I have had other prove of that in my life. Through out my life. I always made a joke of it, and called it, " be careful what you wish for syndrome" didn't know that my joke, was real.
Sorry so long. I always type so long. Lol
I'm with ya girl,keep going mate
I think the main reason I'm so obsessed with authority and complain about it so much is because I feel so trapped by unwritten rules and boundaries that I've drawn and maintained myself, and so when people put their own rules on me I completely reject them. I feel as though I've restricted myself so much that I can only conform to the one image I've chosen for myself.
But in reality, laws and rules are just there, they aren't all seeing and all knowing like some sort of God that punishes us for every little mistake. They aren't a tangible thing that should put me in a state of fear if I break them. I think this has been conditioned not just by school but by myself, mainly.
What scares me is cognitive dissonance making moral relativity plausible deniability. ~What the What!?!
Very interesting - the conversation about the Columbine shooters. A young woman was murdered a few years ago while visiting a grave site of a family member. When asked why he killed her, the perpetrator said - Because she was talking to the birds and stuff just like she thought she was Snow White. This comment always stayed with me. The thought that someone would want to destroy something so innocent was horrific. This was the killer pushing down into the shadow all the goodness that he thought he cannot live up to and acting it out with tremendous violence. Such waste.
This was a really great video. You've done a fabulous job explaining this information in a way that make sense to me. Just the introduction to this type of information has taken me a very long time to wrap my mind around.
There is educated and wise. How are you both so wise at such at your age? It’s amazing. I haven listened to your videos for months now and you’ve helped me reach new levels. And not to brag but I’m considered to be pretty wise already (age 51) Thank you for your valuable content.👍🏼👍🏼
I agree, I am 56 and thought this conversation was great. Took me to new thoughts. It is an excellent place to listen and lucid dream from.
brought up catholic. atheist by 45. listened to jordan peterson at 46. now understand what the whole religion thing is really about. My advice: For a start, act as if god exists.
Just wanted to add that the shadow contents don't only have to be negative. They can be extremely positive and even benign aspects of self that have been for some reason denied (there are many valid reasons for this happening as well) and suppressed.
Personally I have had this experience very intensely.
Shadow contents are just subconscious/unconscious contents and not necessarily reprehensible or energetically "negative" for lack of a better descriptive term.
You guys are funny i enjoy you :)
Wish i had started reading Jung at your age too but i was thrown into either more direct experience or pathological avoidance of direct experience... It's been an interesting ride either way.
In Canada, we have a musician named Chad Kroager, and everyone hates this guy. I had the chance to meet this dude, as I was building a music studio, and my step dad’s friend knew him, so he agreed to show me his studio. Thats when I realized that this dude is hated by everyone because everyone is jealous of him. His music kind of sucks yet he’s a world wide success, millionaire multi platinum artist. And yet he’s a chill guy, not a bad dude, in fact he’s kind of lazy, or care free about it. Helped me figure out that I don’t hate this guy, in fact i think this guys is awesome. He helped me learn to not try so hard, work hard sure but don’t try hard.
oh snap i knew he was the nickleback nigga
Nailed it. Everyone would happily take his place.
"His like the bat man of alcoholics" 😂
"Boozed Man"
This is a fun and popcorn worthy series of videos. I laugh at you guys and at the same time identify with you. I don’t love the reading parts only because it’s hard for me to follow in real time without having the same book in hand. I’ve learned that I process text better when I listen to the audio version while reading the text version. Looks like you did this 5 yrs ago from when I arrived to watch it, so I’m sure you wouldn’t want to go back and edit it where when you read we could see the text. I guess I could also turn on the closed captioning….nope looks like that option is unavailable…
I’ve watched some of your more recent videos and it looks like you’ve creatively learned and improved a lot. Thanks for starting somewhere and being so accessible.
I really want to do this work of integrating the unconscious, getting to know my soul, my shadow, getting this into my life. Thanks for making Jung fresh again. For me I’m hearing echoes all over the place. 20 years ago, when I was in the university majoring in speech communication I had more than one prof that took us through Jung and his book Man and His Symbols. I’ve been drawing from that well since then but now I’m jumping in completely.
It is funny when James said you guys were doing this like a Bible study. That’s the magic of it, in my opinion. Poring over a text, making it relevant to you, and letting it sift through you, that’s really cool. And doing that together, even better.
You guys are awesome! I think Dr. Peterson and Jung would agree with your assessment.🤘🏻
I would of thought so.........they are just repeating what Jung & Peterson have already said 👍
Hmmm, bit strange putting Jung (towering genius) and Peterson (opportunistic, right wing grifter) in the same sentence in this way.
@@quentinkumba6746 lmao, forgive them. They never had a father.
@@quentinkumba6746 That is a profound mischaracterization of Dr. Peterson. Also very rude. Bad vibes dude.
eggo - no it’s not, he’s a third rate academic and a first rate self publicist. Wait 30 years and see how influential he will be. He will have been forgotten. Jung will not have been. As for being rude, if like Peterson, you place yourself on a pedestal then you deserve to be knocked off it.
I guess you are a Petersonite acolyte and cult follower. Are you on the famous Peterson ‘beef only’ diet yet? Never mind, when you are sick of it you can join the Scientologists and get yourself a MAGA hat.
This shows so British they called Hillary a nice lady with straight faces Lmaooo
Exactly, she's almost as reserved as the British, they both invaded every country they come into contact with.
@@RizztrainingOrder Im Scottish and most of us are aware that Hillary Clinton and the rest of them, are fucking arseholes 👌
He's actually Irish
The whole rant at the end almost voided the validity of everything they discussed.
First time viewer - really enjoyed this lads! Thank you and keep up the good work!
These two are the shadows of each other
The collective Irish conciousness is clearly a Connor McGregor fan
Ah yes...the Connor McGregor UFC Archetype from the collective unconscious
Gents, it occurred to me that if you haven't seen it already the BBC drama 'The Fall' is a model if what you are talking about. The psychopath even reads 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'
You two are perfect for each other and us. Thank you.
These series are so great!!! Thank you for creating them. I am so thankful.
Very hard to see how the shadow is the most terrifying idea in psychology. How about psychosis? Or incongruence? The shadow is incredibly similar to Carl Rogers' notion of 'denials and distortions' - aspects of experiencing, including the sense of self, that are marginalised within their frame of reference, beyond the edge of awareness, because they do not fit within a well-defended self-concept. These will include values and valuings that might be organismic / innate but are at odds with those which have been learned and incorporated into the self-concept. (So person-centred therapy, while not regarded as a 'depth psychology', goes as deep as the genes, which seems pretty deep to me) . Individuation in turn is broadly akin to Rogers' concept of a constant, reconstituting 'self-actualization' (as opposed to that of Maslow). 'Integration' of the shadow seems analogous to Rogers idea of 'congruence', or open transparency and wholeness between conscious thoughts, personal constructs, emotions and pre-verbal embodied feelings etc. The 'moralising v instinct' tension echoes Rogers ideas of 'conditions of worth' which are introjected into the self and subordinate the individual's own values and valuings. Rogers' psychotherapy model was the first one arising from a psychologist, and is based on scientific research on thousands of hours of clinical contact. Jung got there largely by pure insight and mind-power. Genius. Interestingly Rogers' major work, Client-centered Therapy was also published in 1951
I think that the shadow is terrifying because it is so hidden that people commit terrifying acts when they project it onto someone else.
I don't know a lot about psychosis so I can't truly compare.
Maybe psychosis might be easier to recognize? People acting from shadow are so self convinced that they convince others to join them in horrific deeds. Just a guess.
We're not all descendants of Cain, according to the Bible, although it is a good metaphor. Seth was the third brother, born after the slaying of Abel.
@Jimmy Crickets
Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but Christianity as it is known today, especially in the public eye, is very European. Christmas being Yuletide, Mary Magdalene being a whore, and Mary being a virgin were misconstrutions that found a resonance within the European world, which is why, as memes, they've survived. Let us not forget that knightly 'chivalry', probably the moral peak of the West, was a direct result of that interpretation of Christianity.
Brilliant.
👊
This is so much fun and interesting. I'm binging them all
@ around 26 minutes you talk about how you wished death upon that particular person. As you mentioned you wanted to be him; we could say you wanted to be Reborn as him. Every Rebirth first requires a Death. He needed to die in order that he would be "reborn in (or through) you. That's one of the reasons why you wished death upon him I would say.
Its also the Cain and Abel story, instead of sacrificing myself for excellence which is personified in Abel, I sacrifice able to my lower emotion: Envy
@@uberboyo Hmmmnnn..so the ego is so afraid of its own death that it works to destroy the reflection( reminder of what I refuse to acknowledge in myself) of the destroyer ( what I am not) in someone outside itself\ myself?
You guys do a fantastic job explaining these concepts!👏 My shadow is more integrated with each video 😈
Thanks ;)
also look at thediamondnet and actualized.org!
An uneven distribution of the collective conscience. I'm not participating in either one of the shared fantasies. Treat others the way you want to be treated. A construct of morality. I don't like it when bad things are done to me so I try not to do bad things to others.
“He’s like the Batman for alcoholics. He like swoops down and kills them if they don’t stop drinking” 😂😂😂
Real spirituality encompasses the shadow with balance even within the ‘law of attraction’ community. Love this video. Great conversation. Subscribed and liked for sure.
I'm somewhat the opposite. I need more arrogance, I've got so much self doubt I'm not certain of things very often, even when I should be.
If you've discovered conscientiousness, humility, and agreeability, in individuation, then impulsiveness, recklessness, arrogance, and assertiveness are hiding in your shadow.
It is a horrific feeling to be filled with self doubt and I was filled with nothing but when I was dealing with my shadow but the climb back is surely worth it.
And James, we don’t have to believe that each us is literally capable of shooting the school you seem still little bit obsessed about it 😉
The hard emotions are the key to gaining Gravitas
Add to that heavy dense Gravitas a bit of energy and you have a shining grounded presence
the core of all great personalities
Überboyø are those the terminologies used by Jung?
They sound poetically accurate
@@IMAHMS Nope, my own spin
Uberboyo How would you define gravitas?
Excellent information! Thank you!
I really hope that this "shadow thing" newish word that it is is not used in a court room to let a person walk from a heinous crime.
Thank you for breaking this down and sharing it with everyone
What you describe at around 19.00 + is known as the Dunning Kruger effect (being too incompetent to recognize the own lack of knowledge.)
But anyway are we the only people who are into anything besides Game of a Thrones? I feel my purpose in my life is to 'Find the Others' but I find many people can't follow anything I say anymore. It's like I've gone down the rabbit hole so far I don't even speak the same language, literally.
The shadow integration thing was the opposite for me. I started out in a state of dependence, doubting everything I said. It came largely in waves; I'd build confidence and relapse in regular cycles as my knowledge and experience expanded outwards, like the rings of a tree.
But now I've reached a point of relative confidence where I can just blurt out any old crap because I know I'll be able to either spin it another way, correct it, or that it will somehow or other come out in the wash. Not only that, but I've seen other people fake their way through things enough time to know that these things are not so set in stone.
I know that deep down, nobody has the answers because *there are no answers.* And that makes it very difficult to get one up on me if I decide I'm not going to play fair and pretend like there are answers and that I know them.
to ask a question regards a topic we know nothing of is a positive action. we then let time pass and it come like magic. is it foolish to answer our own questions . To know isnt to question. to question what we understand has a questionable intention conceled within.
"I'll just tell them it's an Irish word".
Good fall back. I use that for every word some one tries to correct. Even if THEY are Irish. :D
gaze into the abyss of your own shadow and find Deepak Chopra lurking at the bottom of the well .... and he says: "say it ..."
Go deep enough into the abyss and you'll find out Deepak Chopra controls the world and he does it extremely whacked
@@uberboyo IDK yet what the symbol of the Self could be ... but that of the shadow - diamond encrusted glasses ...
@@uberboyo DeepHack Chopra!
@@martinsatyen7833 😂
No free agency? No responsibility? The Devil made me do it? THAT’S convenient!
Great video! 😁 I see alot of my thoughts in your speech, you are just able to articulate them better! Props to both of you
Whoa I love these, appreciate what you guys do!
Thanks boyo! were getting lots of love for these, soon we'll start making summary video and getting a forum together for jung chaps like yourself to tell us whats up
Thanks for baring your "soul" in this episode. Sending you a great big hug brother!
Great video! You two are very fun to watch and I get alot out of your videos. You're inspiring me to read these books myself 😁
Brilliant convo
This is some of the most valuable topics to discuss and learn about as a civilization.
When I was in college some of us went from Sweden to Ukraine (it was 8 years after Tjernobyl and They were very poor) with a help organisation. We were 4 girls in the trip. Of all in collage 2 of them was the 2 once I just couldn't really stand. By then I didn't know why. But one was extremely good in singing and playing music, today I realized it was envy. I was very talented in music growing up. Even planning go to a music college, but lost intetest practising some time in highschool. But my longing to be perfected like that girl was still there. The other girl was the one I had most difficult with. She was always to over the top. Speaking to much exagerating her skills, curious and a bit noosy. But Always kind and Nice to people. I couldn't stand her. We ended up sharing room. Ironic synchronicity. I don't remember how it happened but we ended up confessing to eatchother that we didn't like eachother. I had no idea she didn't like me. But er did it on good terms hugging eatchother. Even if we didn't become best friends I Think we both stopped disliking eachother. I Think she expressed charactar traits I had myself but didn't like and tried to suppress.
Lol, when he caught himself channeling Peterson 😂
It’s a crazy feeling. I want to be noticed like those people, but I don’t want to act like those people to be noticed. 🤪
Jordan has always used fear as a marketing ploy, usually its young men who fall prey
All of society preys on men in this fact. Lot of fear of rejection of fear of being a loser is used to motivate men to work and war.
Nearly took me into absolute chaos. Dark cold and lonely.
You are both much appreciated.
Many thanks. 👏🏻☘️♾
Omg everything was going so well until you said Hillary is a good person lol I am happy you pointed out you were being sarcastic. Great topic and discussion
Why would you think that you need to be arrogant to some extent? Arrogance is being ignorantly confident. You want to be confident, of course, but always open.
The shadow is the measurement within the depths of time and space. I could be a cannibal but I chose not to
you just haven't found the right recipe
This shadow talk reminds me of dexter and his dark passenger
This relates to me so much being a Christian American football player. I always thought I had to split my identity in order to bring out the qualities necessary at the time. But I always wrestle with the idea that virtues vary based on the situation. Virtue relativism haha. Any thoughts?
Christ was a man who was willing to die for virtue, that not the same as "submitting" 🙃
Stay well boyo
U forgot the important part that the shadow is topically considered a personal demon something u expose in ur own privvate "sanctuary" as seen in the hotel room or even in the parking garage the confrontation and meeting in the movie also represents this privateness of ones darker side and logically so due to social expextations which is different from social irresponsibility
I am pretty horrible human than :D... because when I am in "private sanctuary" I am finally in peace :D
No its just understanding we are not perfect and have flaws like everyone the difference is wether u counciously chose to become abetterversion of urself
"The sky is up."
"How about now *does handstand*" lol
Persons you really hate can teach you some really important things about yourself, and when i was trying to think of some, then i just could not hate them as much anymore. WHAT does that mean? The only reason that i can think of, and that is the most difficult one is that i cant because it its easier to sort of forgive, and think "ok, I can see clearly now, they are mirrors that makes me see my shadow - I get, fine!", than to take in what they can teach me about myself. So what can i do about it, if that is the case? What are the most common things that you can learn from people you truly hate? That a part of you is pretty much like them? That you cannot be the bully they are, but you secretly wish you could? And what can you learn from people that really hates you? That you have something they desire, but can get, and therefore wanto destroy you?
16min in and I can't go on. I need to go write... Too much to chew on. Plenty of leftovers. Will be back.
I just clicked on the video and don't know if I'll find my answer here but practically my "shadow figure" told me last night that she wants to kill me. It was after a few attempts to reach out to get any kind of contact with her. So I was very surprised as I don't have any suicidal thoughts (at least not consciously) and I'm usually very goal oriented and optimistic about life. I asked her why and she just replied "because it'd be fun".
It would be fun! For Christ's sake! And the worst is that that answer makes sense to me now and I see the patterns...
I got frightened yesterday and wanted to Reddit it but it seemed silly after I typed it....
I hope I can find an answer here on how to move forward and make a second contact.
Damn, How do you get yo the point of interacting with your shadow? I mean one thing is integration, but how do you make contact?
@@jutrv243 I'm actually not sure how and if it was legit or just a daydream/fantasy. You know how you can hear your conscience talk to you sometimes? Usually it just happens, right? What I experienced was more like me asking and my "conscience" replying.
I know it's not my complete Shadow of course, but it was genuinely terrifying to realise that I did have those thoughts and was acting them out (the way I treat my health and my close relationships...)