What is trail braking?... and why you should use it.
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2020
- Trail braking on the track or on a drill team is NOT the same as trail braking on public roads. Bret Tkacs presents during the Shiny Side Up talk series in New Zealand. This is video from the Auckland talk (2020).
Www.brettkacs.com
This is the 2nd of three videos completing the talk. This portion of the talk discusses the advantages of trail braking on the street while riding a motorcycle (motorbike). Different than trail braking on a racetrack and not the "drag the rear brake" or grab the brakes in the corner definitions that so many riders believe are trail braking.
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Part 1 • Motorcycle myths that ...
Part 3 • Why we crash, why we d... - Навчання та стиль
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"I'm never riding faster than I can stop" .. We should repeat this each time we ride.
My Dad told me that when I was a kid teenager. It has saved my old butt more than once !
I like that
Don't question landing on take off.
I don't ride faster than I can think....I recommend it.
Everyone: "ok I'm not riding fas...."
Supermoto riders: "what would Larry do?"
I'd love to see more of these types of videos. I am learning more about how to be a better coach with how you speak. All of this is much easier to understand coming from you, than some of my advanced classes.
I hope it does help... Thanks for giving up your riding days to help others
DDFM - I'm really impressed with your humility, here. Some of your contemporaries are too worried about their ego. They bait people with parking lot "safety" videos, and then add high speed runs on dangerous roads --- knowing (or should, at least) that some of their followers will try to copy them. ... That said, I've never seen Bret do anything that might put a person in danger, and this creates trust. Plus, as you implied, his approach is clean and direct. I'm really happy to read that you appreciate this approach.
Well I will be funned and stucked. I actually pay for your channel to learn more, I was thinking the same here. Not because of online benefits, but because I figure it is worth paying for good knowledge to keep me alive on the road. Mostly to support people that provide it.
@@BretTkacs Do you have a patreon or site?
@@galehess6676 heck yes I do... Www.brettkacs.com.
www.patreon.com/brettkacs
The fun of riding on the street is learning the corners. I have only been riding for 43 years, learning every time I ride as a beginner.
Just re-watched so I can practice it right. Thanks, Brett. You are a huge benefit to the whole riding community.
FINALLY!!! I found someone who could explain this technique in a way that helps me on the highway (rather than on a track). Thank you Bret!!! P.s. I recommend everyone watching Bret's videos to sign on as a Patreon. Its easy to do, and I think it's worth a few bucks a month for training that WON'T get you injured.
As a side note, I've watched a number of UA-cam videos on trail braking, and most of them are produced by people who are giving 'training' (poorly) based on their limited track experience. I tried using this bad advice and almost hit a pickup truck. Lesson learned: Be careful who you trust your life to.
This just bamboozled me.
These cornering tips are the same I learned in NASCAR school at Daytona.
I’ve been searching for a good explanation for trail braking for a while on UA-cam. You were as clear and as direct as someone possibly could. Thank you!
watch Canyon Chaser
Mark Gardiner (author) once told me "Be late everywhere!", meaning: when riding public roads, it's safer to apex late and this is especially true with an unfamiliar road.
great talk, finally someone who can explain it in a way a REALLY understand. Certainly the image with the braking/throttle zones were a game changer for me. Thanks!!
I could listen to you talk all day :-)
You're a natural instructor.
Thank you...
Yeah, me too!
I agree
I found this to be the most comprehensible explanation of trail braking. Your way of presenting logical reasoning in terms that are understandable is appreciated. I will pay special attention and think my way thru curves in a more confident method. Not over confident, but more informed approach.
Jim
Bret--this is the BEST explanation of trail braking I have ever seen! And I've seen a lot of trail braking videos. You know your stuff. Keep up the great work. Thank you!
I would agree with you except for the being on the gas and the brakes at the same time part. That is completely unnecessary and is giving the bike conflicting instructions. Simply slow until you can see your exit. Watch motoGP, with the fancy on-screen graphics that show brake pressure and throttle position. not even those super-human dudes are slowing and accelerating simultaneously.
@@LisaLadyRider I don't know about that - isn't this where the anti squat forces come into play?
Lisa Jones Hi Lisa-thanks for bringing this controversial topic up. I’m with Bret on this. We’re not talking about using a lot of throttle and brake simultaneously. As you are almost completely finished trailing off the brakes you crack open the throttle to “maintenance throttle”. It smooths the transition from brake to throttle, smoothing the suspension. And it raises the suspension (anti-squat) at the most needed time in the turn. Freddie Spencer was an early proponent of the technique. Lee Parks also teaches it. People are very passionate about the topic and very black and white about it. Moto Jitzu used to preach against it until I pointed out that he actually uses the technique in his videos! He admitted he does it, and now actually teaches the technique. Many people use the technique and don’t actually realize they do it. It allows you to get on the throttle very early, but very subtly. I love the technique. I do admit you don’t see many motogp racers doing it on telemetry, but I would argue the amount of throttle you’re using while almost finishing trailing off the brakes is so small, it may not even register in the telemetry. Also, you really can’t compare motogp to street riding. In motogp, they know those turns intimately well down to the foot. They are on and off the throttle at very precise times in the turn because they have done those turns 100’s of times. On the street, in the mountain twisties, you don’t know what’s around a blind corner. And it’s there that trail braking and easing on the throttle while trailing off the brakes is most valuable because it gives you very precise, SMOOTH control of the bike at every portion of the turn. It’s an amazing technique that I recommend you really try to master on the street before writing it off. Thanks Lisa.
@@LisaLadyRider agreed!
@@Dr.Twisty I honestly disagree. I did try it. For awhile... And I saw absolutely no value in it. It's a lot of complexity and added risk for no measurable gain.
Being on the gas is pushing the bike forward and upright, while braking is slowing the bike down and making the bike want to turn. You are pushing the bike forward from the rear and slowing it down from the front. It works okay, I guess, when you are trying to be fast and don't have a lot of power, but also have a lot of grip. I suspect this is why Parks advocates for it, since he does a lot of Supermoto racing. But in the real world, what are we actually gaining? You say it's smoother - So, we are giving the bike contrary instructions, and unnecessarily using up grip to be "smoother"? Combine that with the complexity of actually trying to do two things at once smoothly with your right hand.... Yes, it can be done, but it's not very easy, and not at all intuitive.
The disadvantages of accelerating and slowing simultaneously far outweighs any "benefits", which are so minimal, it's hard to call them a benefit at all.
Not even Bret was willing to explain what that benefit was on another comment. So yeah, such a big benefit, he's not even going to say what that benefit is. Mmmmm okay...
If the objective is to be smooth, just develop better throttle control. If the problem is you are slowing down too much and you are trying to band-aid that with sneaking on the throttle early, then it isn't solving the problem... Just brake with less pressure.
And sorry if I don't put much weight into MotoJitsu, that guy just regurgitates stuff he reads/hears from other places.
Yet again Bret you explain things so well. Once again a consummate professional.
“It’s usually the rider who runs out of the will to make it through.” So so so true.
Trail braking is a life saver and one of the best skills I've ever learned, amazing how effective it is
Later on (a year later?) Brett muddied his own water on this subject. This effort, on the other hand, makes it crystal clear, especially for lesser riders like me. I watch this video pretty often, and seems like I get a little better on my next ride. Where I ride there are a lot of twisties, lots of gravel, lots of complicated corners (e.g. decreasing radius), so I get lots of opportunities to get a little better. Racers measure skill in turns by time gained or lost. We on the street can measure it by a growing sense of confidence and better and visibility thru the turn and beyond - because we can ride “heads up.” That’s my read anyway, and thanks again Brett for a really great video.
I have seen so many trail-breaking videos and none made me understand it like you just did! I used to watch you on MTRK and I am so happy that I found your new channel. Subscribed immediately. Thank you so much for your hard work and dedication to teaching!
I plan to do a follow up to this one that isn't just a light introduction to trail braking. Many of the negative comments are due to a lack of understanding. This was a 10min clip of a much deeper topic
This is good stuff! I trail-brake all the time. I’m 61 and happy to be ‘that slow guy’ in the twisties when riding with the chaps. I also routinely set up and accelerate through corners on my T-140 Bonnie , but not so much on my CB1300, but only when the exit is clearly visible. You’ve clearly described what I’ve been doing for years.
BEST EXPLANATION OF TRAILBRAKING ON UA-cam. PERIOD.
Great explanation of why and how trail braking works by changing the balance of tire loading.
Dude, UA-cam just recommended this to me and f*, you are one solid instructor! I've been riding 20 years now, in sunny, rainy or snowy weather and even on black ice, and I'm definitely learning new stuff from your talk! This is absolutely awesome and I'd say critical! Watched two videos of this talk, and don't have time right now anymore, but I'll check the rest later!
I am happy you took something away from them. It was a short presentation but I hope I got the basics across.
Trail braking will kill you on suspect surfaces.
I agree with others here. The very best explanation of trail braking and why/when it should be done. Thank you. Excellent job!
As a street rider, commuting primarily in areas with very low speeds, this video is so very insightful and taught me so much I wouldn't have necessarily learnt with the on road experience I will be exposed to. Thank you so much Brent ❤️
Yeah, thank you Bret.
Great video! I've written a book and online course to teach trail braking to the average street rider. Your video here reinforces my theories and techniques. Best wishes!
You are just simple and very best at explaining. Thanks alot trainer.
Maybe folks missed this (?) but it's also important to learn to hold that small bit of throttle as you trailbrake to keep the chassis stable. As you see the exit out of the corner, your bike will not become unsettled from "jumping on the throttle." Another piece to learn and practice (if you're serious).
"Blending of controls" 🔑🗝🔐
Thanks for your honesty, many people can use this ability... Not just on track!
Thanx a milli 4 all your information on all your stuff..One love from Antwerp
BEST explanation I've ever heard.
Thanks for the video. It backs what I'm teaching in my trail braking curriculum. Best wishes.
Thank you so much for this explanation. I've been doing this for a while and it really does make a difference
That was one effective explanation of trail braking. 😊
Perfect description on how to ride corners!!!
Trail braking has always been very natural to me. I figured out quickly that it was the way to get the most out of a bike with really bad suspension, and it came in really handy when I bought my 2014 FZ-09 with its horribly under sprung and under damped suspension and choppy throttle mapping. I had to learn to compress the fork and pin the front tire down to the apex to keep it from pogoing, then transition smoothly off brake and into the throttle. 30 years of mountain biking at a high level also helped develop this skill.
Trail braking was in heavy use during my trip to Deal's Gap NC. Thanks for sharing this, I didn't know what I was doing, but your explanation helped me know what I was doing right and where I need to improve.
Deals Gap is as good road for trail braking.
Very nice explanation, clean and concise!
This video might save more lives than any amount of caution or fear!
Bret, your style of instruction is so animated, that I need a dose of Ian (Big Rock Moto) to even things out. You are both excellent moto - journalists and we appreciate every vid.
I was a big fan of your mototrek videos and you inspired me to get an 1150GS which I now ride almost every day. It was a very pleasant surprise to see you at the Wellington SSU event (Is that Bret Tkacs in New Zealand??) - watched your presentation and learned even more. Thanks for posting these informative and inspiring videos :-)
I hope the ACC brings me back again. If they do I'd like to offer a class while I'm there.
Amazing video. Very informative but also very clear and well explained. Thanks :)
There has not yet been one Bret Tkacs video I have seen so far that I have not learned to be a better rider than I ever could have become just by experience alone.
Legendary Bret Tkacs talk
This summer will have more trail braking lessons, more hands on
great video, Bret l missed the event by one day.
GOLDEN ADVICE. YOU HAVE A NEW SUBSCRIBER
Thanks for posting this!
So good, great content, great delivery, thanks!
Now instead of unconsciously trail braking in the corners I will be consciously trail brake in the corners mo better
Great video explaining trail braking in layman terms. I've been trail braking religiously now for about 5 years. I can't tell you how much safer it makes me feel and boosts my confidence! BTW, I ride a big Sport Tourer, K1600GT. Point being trail braking is for EVERYONE. I would have liked for you to cover trail braking closes up the suspension making bike turn and adding gas opens up the turn; all while maintaining the same lean angle.
Great video... great lesson!
Great stuff! I wish I had of known this was on. Would have been great to attend.
EXCELLENT ! I'm 73 always had a passion foe FLAT TRACKING since the age of 13, still have a H.D XR 750. For the past three and half years, after getting my new 2017 Ducati 1299S, my interest have changed to track racing. The 1299 electronics make up for a LOT of my inexperience. Honestly, never new it was called trail breaking. I guess, dirtrack racing was a good prepping for track racing. I do not know if you recommend it, at times , I go hot into a turn and lock up the rear brake for a second, slide the ass end around and square of the turn, ALWAYS in control. The Ducati in race mode, rear anti lock disabled. Always have the lean angle display on the dash. The Q4 Dunlap have a max of 60 degree lean. AGAIN thank you. Knowledge is power..
Great video, especially the chart and explanation of the physics involved with trail braking. Question; one of my street bikes has metered braking between front and back. WIth this equipment would you use both front and back brakes , along with some throttle, or still stick to mainly front brake? Thanks, keep up the good work!
I’m trying to learn and practice this. Seems a critical skill that I must master.
Im an ex mc racer and this is some good stuff! Another thing to add is many people dont trust their tires into turns, freak out and slam the front or rear breaks allowing the bike to stand up straight and shooting you off the turn. Commit to the turn, if you come in too hot, drag front brake slightly, stay focused on your line, stay smooth you will power through it. If you start to drag stuff like pegs or panniers, dont panic. Smoothly shift your torso while leaning your body into the turn, this will allow the bike to stand up a bit, and by leaning into the turn you still have that leverage on the bike. This is why you will see racer hang off the bikes like monkeys, and many will turn into turns with their elbows squared up.
Yes... I teach body positioning advantages too however if you trailbrake as explained you will NEVER run out of ground clearance. After all your sight line sets your speed so done properly you can trail brake to a complete stop without doing a (panic) stop
Wow finally somebody that understands how I drive and words it perfectly!
Now I just need to go buy a new bike again.
Learned a lot from this thank you
Was using rear then front off rear then off front gradual throttle I’m gonna you around a bit with this new knowledge
Please do not use this. It is dangerous. And I’m surprised Bret has put his name to it.
Brilliant video!
Thanks Bret!
More of this!
Happened to me once. The turn surprised me and i had to lean more. Thanks god i had enough safety space left to do that.
Hi Brett, great video. At the end of video you talk about 270 degrees turning point and before finding the exit point. Is that akin to going around a roundabout with continuous slight throttle and slight brake being applied before trailing off the brake and slowly applying throttle at the exit point?
Thank You!
I love the feel of a double apex corner. Decreasing radius corners...not so much.
Excellent!
I love it; thanks.
Great video
Love how you explain concepts. ??Would you do a video on Mountain Switch back, Downhill, two up on a loaded motorcycle....( a difficult manoeuver imho
Dynamic weight distribution is a corner stone of performance driving/riding. In two wheel world you change bike geometry by applying front brakes and adding throttle however there is only a given amount of traction for whatever you do and if you go across the threshold you lose front or back - if you overcook the corner and you are at the limit of adhesion trail braking will send you into the ditch pronto. One thing not mentioned here is your body positioning affecting the cornering and bike and body separation.
Really enjoy all your videos over at MotoTrek will be following your personal channel as well from now on.
I am unable to interpret the two graphs plotting the turning force/braking/acceleration. I understand the practice of street trail braking its just the graph interpretation I am missing. The description says this is the 2nd talk so maybe you explained it earlier during the talk... is there a public video link for it?
This guy is awesome.
Thanks
Race track techniques: repeated corners to dial in. Touring on unfamiliar roads? Best make sure your breaking is done before entering the curve
Oh Bret, you were doing so well, so well explained and - right up until the end part. There's no reason to be on the gas and the brakes at the same time. Just slow until you can see your exit and you can take away lean angle, then go back to the gas.
There is a very good reason in certain situations to overlap brake and throttle in relation to traction loading and suspension control. But that is a longer conversion...
@@BretTkacs The instructors I had on a Honda safety course (mind you only level 1) were advising to use the back break in the corner with constant throttle and add throttle when coming out of the corner and take away the break.
@@BretTkacs if you're doing crash testing to collect data on airbag suits?
Lisa Jones Hi Lisa-thanks for bringing this controversial topic up. I’m with Bret on this. We’re not talking about using a lot of throttle and brake simultaneously. As you are almost completely finished trailing off the brakes you crack open the throttle to “maintenance throttle”. It smooths the transition from brake to throttle, smoothing the suspension. And it raises the suspension (anti-squat) at the most needed time in the turn. Freddie Spencer was an early proponent of the technique. Lee Parks also teaches it. People are very passionate about the topic and very black and white about it. Moto Jitzu used to preach against it until I pointed out that he actually uses the technique in his videos! He admitted he does it, and now actually teaches the technique. Many people use the technique and don’t actually realize they do it. It allows you to get on the throttle very early, but very subtly. I love the technique. I do admit you don’t see many motogp racers doing it on telemetry, but I would argue the amount of throttle you’re using while almost finishing trailing off the brakes is so small, it may not even register in the telemetry. Also, you really can’t compare motogp to street riding. In motogp, they know those turns intimately well down to the foot. They are on and off the throttle at very precise times in the turn because they have done those turns 100’s of times. On the street, in the mountain twisties, you don’t know what’s around a blind corner. And it’s there that trail braking and easing on the throttle while trailing off the brakes is most valuable because it gives you very precise, SMOOTH control of the bike at every portion of the turn. It’s an amazing technique that I recommend you really try to master on the street before writing it off. Thanks Lisa.
Hi Lisa, I totally get what your saying but this is not so completed to do. For example, I do this when I want to go very slow ( like 2-3 MPH) while keeping the bike upright and balanced. I equate this added maneuver to like blipping the throttle while clutching and downshifting at the same time (ie. engine breaking).
Its nice seeing the back of all those bald heads (ie: older riders) its reassuring that I'm not the only "old man" rider out there...learning to ride at 68...and I never go faster than my age!...Great video!
Just got my license yesterday at 63yo, bucket list retirement item.
They are actually in their 20:s but they have really difficult wives
I took my MSF with these guys. Theyre really cool.
I once laid my bike down (automatic fail) trying to get off the bike because I didnt engage my kickstand fully and the co-instructor saw. I asked if i failed the course, he turns around and says “I didnt see anything.” Lol
Sir I am your big fan
From India
I just wanted to thank you for your videos that are always great. If you ever come down to Texas let's go for a ride and I'll get you some Cooper's BBQ.
Great video…..
9:10 I think it happens the other way most of the time...once people loose their fear, say by grabbing a few at the bar or through experience and overconfidence...they loose the ability to control the bike.
Can U make a playlist of this whole presentation?
Magical.
I would like to know how trail-breaking works when you have telelever suspension which does not dip in the front when braking.
It's not as drastic a difference on telelever bike as a fork suspended bike, it doesn't dive, but it still moves downward and increases pressure on the front tire. You are still transferring weight, you just aren't getting the geometry change. It took me about a month to get used to it on my BMW.
This is over thinking it all experience and practice..the longer you survive..the more experience you gain
Im a "new: rider and have been doing this empirically "instinctively"
Since I slow down before the turn I have to downshift and rev the throttle and I find it very confusing to then quickly have to brake again in a very controlled way as I am in the turn. My timing is completely off. What am I doing wrong?
What about a very long corner where you cant be braking forever?then you need to open the throttle to maintenace level to continue the corner?
I ride a GROM ABS. It has abs on the front. Can i still use trail braking with the rear brake in a turn?
How to maintain rear Tyre traction and grip while trail braking?
1988 on my recently purchased Honda Hawk. Bitchen freeway offramp zero traffic onto very wide main thoroughfare LOADS of room to make my turn so I decide to do it fast and play like I'm Freddie Spencer. Well unseeable to me is the light dusting of grit because they had been doing construction in that area and it just did not get cleaned up shit was like invisible unless close up!. So am I healed over into the turn and man I am feeling GREAT about this sweeper ....Then the back tire looses some grip but even that felt fine ya know? Not a HUGE let go..but nice ya know? and I am committed anyway ...front feels perfectly fine at first getting all set to straighten out and bring bike back up fully turned into furthest lane when ? the front starts going too...had there been run off area I maybe would have been fine but instead there is a concrete curb and gutter and I am physically moving right into it so I panic heal over total low side ...BANG flip OUCH! ....To this day I wonder if and/or how I might have saved that? And these days I wonder if traction control would saved me today I seriously did not know it was a type of sand that caused loss of traction it was not white sand contrasting with dark road but dark sand quality grit ..it FELT quite linear and fun/good actually And I guess logic was telling me that if the rear is losing some grip on the throttle? then the front should be fine....I suppose the only way I would have acted differently if I had KNOWN it was a sand issue...I mean I should HAVE KNOWN something was very wrong....nice fresh tires warm from miles of freeway should not have done that. Take home lesson is you NEVER KNOW what is on the surface of the roads you are turning or braking on....it could even look okay and NOT be....and if wet from rain? Damn then you REALLY have no clue! Recently in my favorite canyon riding at a sedate just slightly spirited pace my bike momentary let go front and rear and then hooked right back up....this has happened before also....I have no idea WTF was on the road! Some little patch of something slick.... and a wake up call that shit could be ANYWHERE!
Bret, are you saying that throttle blending provides more, combined front/rear grip than does braking only or acceleration only?
6.00 I get front suspension up with throttle, but surely that compresses rear suspension? The weight and momentum has to go somewhere?
OH wowo ANIT squat geometry is why the Tenere feels so much better when throttling around a corner.
Here's a question for u
So i shoudnt look down when im cornering, but wat i do if theres gravel down ?
I had bad habit of riding the clutch and font break thru the conner, is it bad?
I have a question. I ride an electric bicycle with no suspension for a living and I often find myself holding onto the front brake very naturally as I go into a turn (yes it may be slower than a motorcycle, but this only means I brake with less pressure and for a smaller period, the principle is still the same). Does the fact that I'm on a no-suspension bike make it more risky for me to do trail braking because the weight transfer is less effective? And to be honest with you I feel much more comfortable trailing the brakes in a turn than going for the slow, look and press type of cornering.
Thank you for doing these videos. Please help help you create more content. What is your patron or subscription website. I want to learn more
Long shot, not sure you will reply. How do you start trail braking for the first time? on an outside, easier curve?
It all sounds really good but I still don't get it :) might have to watch again.
So you don't have to use trail breaking on all the curves?
I understand the benefits of trail braking. However, I'm struggling with the application of the technique while riding my ADV bike (Tenere 700). This bike, and many twins exhibit pretty strong compression braking during deceleration. If I apply brakes at the same time, I end up entering the corner to slowly. How do I address this? Less brake pressure, more entry speed?
Nice