There are different ways to interpret this song as with any song. I remember how the Corries were slated by traditionalists for popularising folk songs. Watched them with my Dad and they brought the house down with how they lifted the audience up with their ballads and introduced so many people to the world of folk music. The crux for me is if the listener gets something out of it. As I'm not a traditionalist who dictates how it should or should not be sung, I judge whether I would listen to it again. I do, partly because I love your rendition of Ae fond kiss, which is so beautifully sung and partly because my daughter sang this song very sweetly at the Strichen music festival a number of years ago so it brings back very fond memories. She was only a wee teen but the audience weren't too worried that she didn't understand the complexities of the song. On a more serious note who cares if some people don't like it because only older women with particular experiences can should have the right to sing it. I do and am pleased it is up here for others to listen to it if they enjoy it as much! :-)
I think tradition aside, Scottish music could and should evolve. I've no idea where the idea of an older lady came from as surely only a young lass would be able to change her mantle to open herself to courting again, where hearts disappointment is often a young game. I love hearing Doric in song as it seems so much traditional music is focused on gaelic. Charming performance.
I really like this song and other songs by Robyn Stapleton. I heard this long ago on an album, I forget which one, but it has always been a favorite. I think it was Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger's album, but there are lots of versions. I thought it was about looking forward to the future with optimism, but perhaps I did not understand something, judging from the negative comments by Colin Keenan below
I must confess I'm more than a little astonished by the roiling criticism of this wonderful performance. I'm reminded of the controversy back in the States in the mid-'60s, when Dylan was introducing "folk-rock" at Forrest Hills and (also) the Newport Folk Festival, when the folk purists were heard to loudly proclaim that the only correct interpretations of the material were those that sounded per-phonograph. But, the reality is that the nature of all folk forms is that they evolve, and there are a variety of choices, a number of right ways to do it right. Robyn Stapleton is, in my view, extraordinary, and one of the highlights of my wife's and my trips to Edinburgh this past May was to stop into CODA and pick up her lively and heartfelt renditions of Robert Burns songs. When I got back home, I purchased her first album as well, and have been listening to her and some other Scottish musicians almost non-stop ever since. I think we all have a right to our preferences; what we don't have a right to do is demonize solid and heartfelt work just because they don't confirm to our rigid preconception of what the music should sound like.
The purists can be very pure indeed....try playing a Boehm flute ...the standard of criticism rises dramatically!! This lady sounds fine and musical to me.
Happy that you have had the smeddum to come back and fight your corner. No intention of offering personal criticism of either yourself or your teacher who I don't know. I don't at all accept the idea that criticism sincerely expressed is re-defined as insult. I have lots of criticism of the Conservatoire and what it's doing to - rather than for - traditional Scots song but to redefine the criticism I posted as an " insult" takes us down the road that they are beyond criticism - you/they don't react to well intended criticism except by immediately trying to defend against it. That is a "smart ass" media type of response that ultimately prevents a publicly funded organisation like the Conservatoire engaging constructively with those who fund it. By what equation is sincere criticism redefined as insult? I wonder how much musical or presentational control you or the band had over that track. It took me straight back to White Heather Club / Hogmany programes. Happy that a great song got a half decent airing but, but ,but I was left with the gut feeling I still have, that all of this is taking us quickly back to the mid 1960's and the kailyard stuff, Joe Gordon and his Folk Four Hootenany etc. To be fair, you are better than that, The debate in these days was roughly along the lines of "Does it really matter how far we compromise the material or the performance as long as it gets the exposure?" Have we moved on - does this stuff take us forward or back?
Sounds pretty insulting to me. Let's see: "Can't put into words how awful I find this." "...orchestrated ,commercial, gutless, and utterly divorced from its roots. Etc. This is not critique, these are personal attacks. Perhaps you don't understand what constructive criticism is, or maybe you do but enjoy using these fora to attack people you will likely never meet in person for a face to face conversation. But whatever it is, your own words betray your intent.
Can't put into words how awful I find this. This is taking the tradition back into a sort of Moira Anderson world of twee, musically correct stuff - orchestrated ,commercial, gutless, and utterly divorced from its roots. We have a young quine with a great voice attempting songs that were by and about much older women who were expressing deep and complex situations and feelings she can imagine but little more. The feeling for the content is not, in my view there. She treats the words # just as bits of songs without any connection to their origins beyond the recognition that they are old and Scots. I don't blame her at all for this -should be directed at the Conservatoire as it grandly calls itself and the BBC who promulgate such stuff as traditional Scots music. Not good for the tradition nor, sadly I suspect, for a decent young singer.
Hi Colin, So sorry that you didn't enjoy the song. I interpreted the song in a really positive way, as a woman determined to pick herself up after she's lost her love. Saying, there's plenty fish in the sea :-) I sang this song, as I always do, feeling every word, and I'm sorry that didn't come across to you. It's no problem for you to dislike the song, but to insult my teacher, the Conservatoire and the BBC is a bit over the top. I've had only positive feedback about this performance, but I appreciate what you've said, and perhaps the speed of the song made it difficult to convey the story. I am very interested to find out who this 'older woman' is that you think the song is from? Unfortunately I don't think the audience wanted to hear 'deep and complex' when they were getting merry at New Year, and I was glad to be able to entertain everyone with a lively rendition of the song. If you do care about Scotland's musical tradition, I think you should refrain from publishing distasteful comments aimed at those who study and work hard to promote and share Scotland's music.
Lots of words there Colin... It's a live performance... are you trying to start that old sterile and reductive debate about "Tradition"? While I am inclined to agree that this performance isn't what it could and should be, Miss Fyfe will no doubt revisit it. But your analysis suggests a morbid lack of flexibility which serves only to create the moribundity you seem to be afraid of.
I'm not far away from you here. I think R is a great singer or not far short of that. and on her way. That doesn't mean that she has yet developed the knack of matching her voice and style to the songs she chooses for her repertoire or judging which gigs will take her career in which direction. Not confident that she has the best advice or judgement in that aspect of her career. When tv gigs along the "white heather club" line come along, I think she might do well to think through where they might inadvertently take her career. I 'd simply hate for her to end up in the kitsch tartanalia of shows like the above and tartaned up and [in my own view, speeded up ] versions of fairly complex traditional songs. Apologies if I caused any hurt. It comes from a sincere and caring place.
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Can't really put into words how wonderful I find this rendition.
Oh yes girls - great song and Robert Robertson - what's not to like!
Absolutely smitten with this charming performance. Fantastic work, Robyn.
There are different ways to interpret this song as with any song. I remember how the Corries were slated by traditionalists for popularising folk songs. Watched them with my Dad and they brought the house down with how they lifted the audience up with their ballads and introduced so many people to the world of folk music. The crux for me is if the listener gets something out of it. As I'm not a traditionalist who dictates how it should or should not be sung, I judge whether I would listen to it again. I do, partly because I love your rendition of Ae fond kiss, which is so beautifully sung and partly because my daughter sang this song very sweetly at the Strichen music festival a number of years ago so it brings back very fond memories. She was only a wee teen but the audience weren't too worried that she didn't understand the complexities of the song. On a more serious note who cares if some people don't like it because only older women with particular experiences can should have the right to sing it. I do and am pleased it is up here for others to listen to it if they enjoy it as much! :-)
this is a great version
I think tradition aside, Scottish music could and should evolve. I've no idea where the idea of an older lady came from as surely only a young lass would be able to change her mantle to open herself to courting again, where hearts disappointment is often a young game. I love hearing Doric in song as it seems so much traditional music is focused on gaelic. Charming performance.
Well done 👍
I really like this song and other songs by Robyn Stapleton. I heard this long ago on an album, I forget which one, but it has always been a favorite. I think it was Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger's album, but there are lots of versions. I thought it was about looking forward to the future with optimism, but perhaps I did not understand something, judging from the negative comments by Colin Keenan below
Smashing!
I love you your vioce and Scotland Paul payton Birmingham England xx ❤🌞😀
Lovely rendition - ken fit ah mean?
Great tune
I must confess I'm more than a little astonished by the roiling criticism of this wonderful performance. I'm reminded of the controversy back in the States in the mid-'60s, when Dylan was introducing "folk-rock" at Forrest Hills and (also) the Newport Folk Festival, when the folk purists were heard to loudly proclaim that the only correct interpretations of the material were those that sounded per-phonograph. But, the reality is that the nature of all folk forms is that they evolve, and there are a variety of choices, a number of right ways to do it right. Robyn Stapleton is, in my view, extraordinary, and one of the highlights of my wife's and my trips to Edinburgh this past May was to stop into CODA and pick up her lively and heartfelt renditions of Robert Burns songs. When I got back home, I purchased her first album as well, and have been listening to her and some other Scottish musicians almost non-stop ever since. I think we all have a right to our preferences; what we don't have a right to do is demonize solid and heartfelt work just because they don't confirm to our rigid preconception of what the music should sound like.
The purists can be very pure indeed....try playing a Boehm flute ...the standard of criticism rises dramatically!! This lady sounds fine and musical to me.
Charming, indeed
Wow
Happy that you have had the smeddum to come back and fight your corner. No intention of offering personal criticism of either yourself or your teacher who I don't know. I don't at all accept the idea that criticism sincerely expressed is re-defined as insult. I have lots of criticism of the Conservatoire and what it's doing to - rather than for - traditional Scots song but to redefine the criticism I posted as an " insult" takes us down the road that they are beyond criticism - you/they don't react to well intended criticism except by immediately trying to defend against it. That is a "smart ass" media type of response that ultimately prevents a publicly funded organisation like the Conservatoire engaging constructively with those who fund it. By what equation is sincere criticism redefined as insult?
I wonder how much musical or presentational control you or the band had over that track. It took me straight back to White Heather Club / Hogmany programes. Happy that a great song got a half decent airing but, but ,but I was left with the gut feeling I still have, that all of this is taking us quickly back to the mid 1960's and the kailyard stuff, Joe Gordon and his Folk Four Hootenany etc. To be fair, you are better than that,
The debate in these days was roughly along the lines of "Does it really matter how far we compromise the material or the performance as long as it gets the exposure?"
Have we moved on - does this stuff take us forward or back?
Sounds pretty insulting to me. Let's see: "Can't put into words how awful I find this." "...orchestrated ,commercial, gutless, and utterly divorced from its roots. Etc. This is not critique, these are personal attacks. Perhaps you don't understand what constructive criticism is, or maybe you do but enjoy using these fora to attack people you will likely never meet in person for a face to face conversation. But whatever it is, your own words betray your intent.
Can't put into words how awful I find this. This is taking the tradition back into a sort of Moira Anderson world of twee, musically correct stuff - orchestrated ,commercial, gutless, and utterly divorced from its roots. We have a young quine with a great voice attempting songs that were by and about much older women who were expressing deep and complex situations and feelings she can imagine but little more. The feeling for the content is not, in my view there. She treats the words
# just as bits of songs without any connection to their origins beyond the recognition that they are old and Scots. I don't blame her at all for this -should be directed at the Conservatoire as it grandly calls itself and the BBC who promulgate such stuff as traditional Scots music. Not good for the tradition nor, sadly I suspect, for a decent young singer.
Hi Colin,
So sorry that you didn't enjoy the song. I interpreted the song in a really positive way, as a woman determined to pick herself up after she's lost her love. Saying, there's plenty fish in the sea :-) I sang this song, as I always do, feeling every word, and I'm sorry that didn't come across to you.
It's no problem for you to dislike the song, but to insult my teacher, the Conservatoire and the BBC is a bit over the top. I've had only positive feedback about this performance, but I appreciate what you've said, and perhaps the speed of the song made it difficult to convey the story. I am very interested to find out who this 'older woman' is that you think the song is from?
Unfortunately I don't think the audience wanted to hear 'deep and complex' when they were getting merry at New Year, and I was glad to be able to entertain everyone with a lively rendition of the song.
If you do care about Scotland's musical tradition, I think you should refrain from publishing distasteful comments aimed at those who study and work hard to promote and share Scotland's music.
Lots of words there Colin... It's a live performance... are you trying to start that old sterile and reductive debate about "Tradition"? While I am inclined to agree that this performance isn't what it could and should be, Miss Fyfe will no doubt revisit it. But your analysis suggests a morbid lack of flexibility which serves only to create the moribundity you seem to be afraid of.
Such snobbery lads,Robyn is great !
I'm not far away from you here. I think R is a great singer or not far short of that. and on her way. That doesn't mean that she has yet developed the knack of matching her voice and style to the songs she chooses for her repertoire or judging which gigs will take her career in which direction. Not confident that she has the best advice or judgement in that aspect of her career. When tv gigs along the "white heather club" line come along, I think she might do well to think through where they might inadvertently take her career. I 'd simply hate for her to end up in the kitsch tartanalia of shows like the above and tartaned up and [in my own view, speeded up ] versions of fairly complex traditional songs. Apologies if I caused any hurt. It comes from a sincere and caring place.
What a load of shite you speak