Diesel has the issue of emissions controls, DEF, etc. With electric to provide torque and efficiency, a gas generator will probably give good results without the issues of diesel.
@@Stetrain A diesel that is acting as a generator really only has to be designed to work in a very narrow power and RPM range. I dont think it would be as challenging as making a diesel that has to operate as the direct driver of the wheels and needs to operate from 1000 to 4000 rpm and 0 to 200 hp. With a generator, you just start it up and run it at maximum output all the time, if it starts to charge up the battery above 80%, shut it down.
@@socalson7492 not really. With current emissions systems they are quite clean. Just like a gasoline car. have you followed a gasoline car with the catalytic converters removed? It’s heinous.
80% of Scout reservations include a range extender!! That's crazy but totally makes sense. People want one car to do it all, not a city car and a long distance car. Hope to see more manufacturers move in this direction with range extenders, especially with Trucks and SUVs as mentioned.
Well said. I got a Maverick Hybrid months ago because it's got so many things going for it...but the Terra blows it out of the water in every way, and then some. I doubt the direct-to-consumer and estimated prices, sadly
You can thank the Chevy Volt 2010 that introduced the range extending technology - 4 cylinders acting as electric generator to the electric motor driving the wheels, but the ICE engaged with the battery at high speeds. A perfect bridging technology which makes sense for off roading too.
Yep original 2011 Chevy Volt owner here. Was actually on a waiting list for a year too get it too. This is why I was excited that Scout may have something similar. I recall when BMW came out witg their I3 (I already owned my Volt) and I laughed so hard at how inferior of a design it was.
Game-changing tech that's been around in locomotives since the 1930s. Really wish someone would put a diesel-electric setup into RVs. Oh, wait. Edison Motors is going to offer conversion kits that will work in a motorhome. Can't wait.
I agree with earlier comments,generator power would likely be provided by VAG 3 cylinder turbo engine as used in the VW UP and Seat Mini. Lightweight and compact enough to wedge into the rear of the Scout Harvester. The power unit is already Euro 6 emissions compliant, so unlikely that VAG would invest millions in developing a one off flat 4.
Just to clarify, Bronco and the likes were made to compete with the Scout not the other way around. The Scout predates the Bronco and the Gmc/Chevy variants.
Well to clarify things even more Ford was a developer of the Jeep so even though the Bronco came out after it the Scout it was more of a decision to develop their own version and Han to compete with anyone else.
Great discussion. I've been driving my Gen 2 Volt for eight years now (180k miles) and it's still a fantastic combination of electric capability for local driving and gas for road trips. It was ahead of its time, and here we are 14 years after the first Volt was sold and there's surprisingly few PHEV options out there. The Scout looks awesome and I think the decision to offer a range extender is a good one, I just hope it can do everything on gas that it can do on battery, like the Volt.
This is the subject that I am watching Scout for. Also, during an interview with a RAM engineer, he was asked why the V6 in the Ramcharger. His response was because that is what they had. It seemed less about capability and more about what they had on the shelf that fit.
I think there's a little more to it than "that's what they had", although that certainly helps a lot with development cost. The Ramcharger is designed to tow 14,000 pounds, it'll probably weigh close to 8,000 pounds, that's 22,000 pounds you need to lug up and over say, the Rockies. Not gonna do that with a little 4 banger generator.
@@Drewcardello Ramcharger and all electric full-sized pickups average 2 mi/kwh flat highway not towing. Typically you get half that towing flat (1 mi/kwh) and roughly half again going up grade (0.5 mi/kwh). To sustain towing uphill at 75 mph you are going to need minimum 150kw (75 mph/0.5 mi/kwh) generated electricity, plus some extra for efficiency loss. This is right in the range of the special Atkinson cycle Pentastar when you add generation losses. It was an existing asset and to develop a new Atkinson generator would be expensive, but it also fits the need very well.
Thanks for the clarification on Volt vs BMW I3 and what this likely means to Scout. As an owner of a 2011 Volt (was on a waiting list for that too), if Scout builds this similar to how our Volt operated, that is run independently on gas without having to charge, I will be all over keeping my reserved unit with Range Extender. However, if it will simply be used to slow down the loss of full battery power, I will change to full EV. I already own an EV (replaced Volt with Mach E) and I definitely desire the full EV performance with range and acceleration. The main reason I would get the range extender would be because that would truly make new owners to the tech more accepting by eliminating range anxiety, just like the Volt did for me. That would be huge for resale. But I can also live without that as I rarely need to charge outside of home as it is.
As a note, with the Volt you did lose power when climbing extensively unless you prepared beforehand and set it to Mountain mode which had the limit where the gas engine kicked in at 50% instead of close to 0%.
After confirming the width they originally stated is with mirrors (thank god), im very interested in the range extended SUV. The only reasons i don't have a reservation are: - i don't buy first year vehicles - i want to know, once the battery and fuel tank are empty, if you refuel the tank, what kind of range and power does that offer? I do a lot of road trips, up to 1000mi in a day, and I can't wait around to charge for long. It doesn't need to be 500 miles of range on just a tank with no charging, but it has to be enough to get from nowhere to somewhere with a dc charger that is available, fast, and operational. Which sadly isn't trivial in Canada or the US yet
Agreed on diesel. Farmers have been using diesels as irrigation pumps for decades. They make good generators. Have to get past American perceptions- but look to Europe- they have been using diesel vehicles for decades.
I have to say, as a very happy i3S rex owner, I've had my mind set on eventually trading it up to the Neue Klasse 3 that's on the horizon. However, since the Scout reveal I think I've changed my mind. As a northwesterner who loves the outdoors it would better fit my lifestyle and the extra range would be better suited to the longer distances between places out here. While typing this, it seems I've made up my mind to place a reservation order... 🤔
Something Scout should seriously consider is additional partnering with Rivian to help build out the Adventure Network and get a elevated level of access as a result (similar to what Rivians get). One of the big issues is charging availability in the remote areas Scout is designing for.
When Tommy was at the Scout event there was a sample of the charger that uses the Tesla network. Scout added the range extender engine so you can go to remote locations without charging stations by taking Jerry cans of gas with you.
@@aerynlovell4754well all EVs are switching to NACS, including Rivian it doesn’t mean that they have a deal to only work with Tesla. I agree that I hope they work with Rivian to build out the RAN to offer legit competition to the supercharger network.
Lots of people are still unsure about bev. I was, but own an r1s and charging hasn't been an issue at all. But for those who want gas as a backup, this is a great solution. Had this been out, i likely would have opted for the ev version with locking diffs.
I’m a fan but as we all know tech is constantly changing it’ll be interesting to see how it’ll stand against the competition by the time it rolls off the lot
I’m with you on the diesel generator. That’s what my locomotives use and we absolutely abuse those engines. Still, hoping Scout pulls this off as I reserved one with a gas generator. If they don’t, I’ll just buy some old Jeeps and mod them to modern standards.
100 hp 1000cc Flat TWin !!! 500cc cylinder displacement is the German ideal size for an engine and the rest of the world seems to agree. With the flat twin you can have the same cylinder for more economy of scale with the head rotated 90 degrees to the bore to have the ports horizontal ... BMW have been doing it forever.
I agree with previous comments with use of VWs 3 cylinder to manage volume, cost and weight. As advertised, this is a range extender, with the idea of leaving home with a full or relatively full battery to bypass a charge stop or two during a lengthy road trips. It will most likely be running continuously on the highway, and only while in motion in the city. Lawyers will most likely restrict use of this to while vehicle is in motion, to avoid carbon monoxide buildup within enclosed spaces. I wouldn't expect this to be designed for prolonged stationary charging.
In my estimation, the only engine that makes sense for this generator in the current VW lineup globally is the 1.4L TSI. Maybe the Porsche 2.0L, but that adds a lot of unnecessary cost and complexity. But because the engine doesn't power the wheels it doesn't need to meet the same highway emissions regulations. Diesel is still too heavy, bulky, expensive, etc. But it opens the door to outside manufacturers like Kawasaki or Rotax. Or perhaps the best possibility, leaning on their previous partnership with Ford and getting the 2.5L Duratec.
@@stephenreaves3205 hopefully it's designed with the intent to use generator's waste heat. I would only use the generator in cold weather. Actually it would be nice to be able to remove it for the summer. Kinda like when you have to winterize your boat and house
Thanks, Tommy! Another great job explaining all this! My thoughts on the generator are that it will be an air-cooled gasoline engine, like the BMW had. That will work fine as long as it comes on early and keeps the battery charge high enough to maintain normal driving. A decent air-cooled gas engine should add some significant range to it. It seems to work in the BMW. Based on your description of where it will live on the Scout, I think air-cooled is the only option. There's no room for a cooling system, I don't believe. I don't think they need to mess with a liquid cooled engine here to get what they need. I also think it will not be connected to the drive wheels. It will only make electricity go for the battery. This is actually a great way to do this kind of EV. You do not have to compromise the EV's battery or storage space needs/benefits for the onboard generator. But you still get the additional miles benefit the ICE generator brings.
One follow-up thought I have is the theory that you could put batteries in that space instead of the ICE generator. Doing this might increase the range to a similar amount as the ICE generator would do. This would also eliminate the added complexity of the ICE generator. However, the additional batteries could weigh more than the generator. That would negatively impact the payload and performance. The extra batteries could cost more than adding the generator, and they would definitely increase the overall charge time. So I think this type of range extender vehicle is an interesting concept. I hope Andre has an order in for a TFL long tester!
As a tow truck driver seeing what i'm seeing and what people are doing right now in the Detroit area, some major MAJOR!!! changes are going to have to happen to the infrastructure, alot more range and all these fires and people being lied to about the actual cost of owning an EV in the real world. I like the idea of range extenders but it seems alot is going to have to change in 3 years to get the mainstream public on board, and with people leaving the EV market and going back to Hybrids and ICEs at a rapid rate that we are seeing right now, Scout better play there cards right with this. If this was a straight up Hybrid, this would be gold, i just don't know what 3 years will bring, hopefully things will get better, but i see alot of people become all googly eyed over things like the Lightning, Cybertruck, Rivian, Hummers ECT... and we see them on the hood or getting traded in with in 6 months to a year because they just didn't deliver the promises they were told and keep up with their Gas and Hybrid counterparts. It by no means is going work well if electric costs keep going up as we've seen now 4 or 5 times where it's costing people more to charge than to fill up, perhaps Scout should have a 3rd option to by a straight up Hybrid for States that have less EV mandates and only have the EV and range extender in more stringent states.
Reserved a Scout as soon as it was announced. They hit a home run with this one. Currently a Land Rover Defender owner and the Scout Traveler is the only vehicle that would make me part ways with the Defender
I have two second generation Volts and my sister and law has the first generation. The first generation’s gas engine does not supply power to the wheels. If you did not put it in “Mountain” or “Hold” modes, then on steep climbs, you were hosed. The second generation does connect to the wheels and operates like a hybrid without any really mpg hit. That was clearly the right decision. That said, I have a reservation for the Scout Terra with the Harvester. With the bigger battery, I expect you will want to keep 25% of battery in reserve when you know there will be some climbs ahead. I think this will be the perfect electric truck for me to tow my travel trailer. I agree a diesel generator makes the most sense, and I hope they ignore the potential complaints and hope they do one. I can live with the Blue DEF if it has to have it.
A big problem with dual or quad motor 4x4s is steep inclines. For example, the BYD Shark has a 31° incline limit. The issue is that when traversing steep inclines the front wheels produce very little grip as most of the weight is on the rear axle. With dual motors, that means you really only get the power from the rear motor which will be roughly only half the overall power of the truck. A conventional 4x4 can send all of the engine power to the rear axle when the transfer case is locked. It can then multiply that power even further with low range. In theory a conventional 4x4 with an overall similar power output can put down around 4 times more power to the rear axle because of low range and locking transfer case. This is important for those who use their rigs off-road or tow a boat up a boat ramp.
In the UK the Rouge is an X Trail and the E Force 213bhp version is a gas vehicle where the engine doesn’t drive the wheels only generating electricity for the electric motors to drive the wheels. Unfortunately there is no plug in option.
I think this is great, I think tuning the motor to come on when the battery is down to say 70% or so would work well. Keep that ele tric, towing motor, charged.
The BMW i3 story is so typically BMW. I have a 328 diesel and one day while cleaning it I realized that there was an extra set of lightbulbs in the tail lights. But when I turned my lights on or stepped on the brakes, the lights didn’t illuminate. I later learned that the extra lights were rear fog lights. Apparently rear fogs are required in Europe but not America, so BMW builds all their cars the same, to include putting in the light bulb, but then locks out the rear fog function via software lol.
@ Haha yeah BMW even has the switch on the dash, it’s just unmarked lol. I just coded them back on and vuala, my car now has rear fogs which are actually very useful when backing into my dark driveway.
Nice review, I'm actually holding out for the Scout truck. That is after watching reviews for the Ram Charger and Gladiator 4xe. Scout has done something here with lockers, disconnects, sliding roofs, 35" BFG KO3's, on board air, and the range extender. No one else comes close to that. Not to mention the personal choice for the retro style. There is something that these reviews miss. That is, people are already range extending their electric and plug in hybrids by using portable power stations and dual fuel gas/propane generators. And a portion of these same folk don't charge from the grid at home. They have home solar battery setups like my solar shed I'm building. Of course not charging from the grid is a barrier to entry for the non diy folks. But that is changing rapidly. Elons Tesla roofs and Tesla walls are an hands off consumer solution, and the solar industry announced at their show this year that they are moving to adding battery solutions to their solar packages. This allows EV and PHEV to charge from the home batteries when the sun is not out. What I would really like to see as us individual citizens who are solving the grid crisis one house at a time. Would be that we could get subsidized like the grid power companies. One could dream, but I'm not holding my breath. 😂
There are a zillion speculations on the size and functionality of the Harvester (range-extended version). Each component needs to be optimized for this function, that means if you want to run as a range extender, the battery system needs to be able to provide “full power” on just the battery. This is not just in terms of maximum amps, but also the impact of high power draw on smaller battery packs (if you halve the size of the battery pack the electric draw is spread across the smaller number of batteries thus increasing the duty-cycle impact on that smaller set of batteries). All that said, I would like to see something around the size of the old VW bug flat fours, maybe the 1.3 liter at 40 hp and 250 lbs weight with only about 1/3 of the full EV version battery being sacrificed. Keep in mind that engine was built in 1966-1970, and optimized for a range of RPMs, an engine optimized for a generator will still be vastly different from the design standpoint. And, yes my reservation is for the Harvester edition, but I am hoping for a few more efficiency points in batteries so I can go all EV.
In your previous video you wondered about how powerful range extender is needed. I think this is something you can find out yourself. Get a cheap bluetooth OBD2 reader and an app like Torque that can show the power produced by engine. Then drive it up the Ike Gauntlet and some highway towing and log the measurements. I feel that the hybrid drivetrains in such a way that the electric motor and battery provide the power and range extender the endurance. The battery should be big enough to get the vehicle up a mountain and the ICE can then slowly charge it up. When I did these power measurements on my car I was surprised how low they were. At highway speeds Torque claimed I was only using 10-15 HP. But then I started thinking about how the power requirements go up squared with the speed it makes. My car had 150HP with a top speed of 220km/h. Half the speed and take a square root of 150HP and we are pretty close to the measurement by Torque.
Another tip as I’ve worked in a Rex project before - a driveshaft is always more efficient than an inverter so you are gonna lose power from the combustion engine which is why a plugin drivetrain is better. Also diesel is not ideal because it is heavy and you want power with a generator not torque 😊
One way of possibly saving weight and cost would be to use one of the drive motors as the generator (driven by the engine). It would mean only having 2 wheel drive while using it but on long highway journeys it wouldn't be a problem. Interestingly, the VW ID2 concept showed a huge storage area under the rear trunk floor, and i thought at the time it would be great to put a rex in there.
We drive from the mid-west to each coast to visit grandchildren. My wife and I are considering the traveler with harvester. I'm waiting to see how the charger maintains the battery so we don't have a BMW type issue. It will also have to be cushy for long road trips. Offroad capable for snowy and light offroad day trips.
These seem great and are going to be available right when my current lease will be up, but I'm hesitant to reserve one sight unseen and the first editions will probably have a few problems. I think it's safer to wait a few years for them to work out the bugs first.
BEV makes the most sense for cars; REX for offroad, towing, work, etc. Home-charging for both. But I still think propane should be explored for range ext
Diesel generator because I always say that. On top of the fact that when we eventually start finding less gas stations on the highways there will most likely still be semi trucks around, for a lot longer not to mention diesels availability for trains. Having a diesel run a vehicle like this makes so much sense.
Tommy, I think in this case you’re off base. My expectation is that they’re going to run something small like a 50 or 60 hp generator set under the back of the scout platforms. I bet that you’ll be able to have the range extender run as soon as the battery drops below a certain relatively high threshold like 60 or 70%. If the generator set will be able to keep up with a vehicle that is getting about 2 miles/kWh and then will continue to run and charge the batteries when you shut the vehicle off that would be ideal. At least that’s what I’m hoping for. There really is no reason to have a generator set that can keep up with the peak need of a depleted battery. There should be an expectation that the battery is charged when the vehicle is stationary either through the charge port or the range extender M2C
$0.02 as a volt owner... My guess is that it will likely be the 1.0 TSI EA211 3-cylinder engine with a few modifications for a few RPM set points, oil sump. Likely a belt drive to a fix DC voltage output, with variable amp eliminating the need for a separate DC-to-DC converter or AC-to-DC converter. The engine itself could be packaged in less than 200 pounds and with another 40 pounds for 5 gallons of fuel it could be easily offset by the smaller battery. The unit will be modular in that it can be lowered out, serviced while separated from the Scout without impacting the Scout as an EV. People love their gasoline, but just thought I would mention Scout lives or dies by Stellantis' hardship and VW's ability to strengthen their balance sheets.
You should do an episode on Edison Motors. They are mostly semi trucks but are coming out with a pickup truck retro fit kit. They do a diesel generator to charge the battery.
Got our reservation in and agree with you completely. I will be shocked if we see these in 2026 though. Guess we will see. Also hoping this nudges Jeep in the same direction.
For the 4xe you have to charge it to get the extra horses from the electric motor. Does it work without charging? Yes, but the engine does not charge the battery
The range extender is a real afterthought. They don't know where it goes, and they don't know what it is. That is going to be real problem when bringing this product to market. It's going to impact every aspect of the vehicle design, especially once you start considering crash testing, heat management, exhaust placement, etc etc. I think Scout has some good ideas here, but they clearly haven't thought-through the impact of the generator. Also, there is _no way_ that what we are seeing here will come to market at $60k. None. They are either going to de-content this drastically, or raise the price.
If only the designers and engineers had access to the knowledge base that comes from a wide range of automobiles which have been placing the engine behind the rear axle for almost 90 years?
Personally I reserved the full electric. My driving habits with my 2013 Volt, as well as my 2017 Volt have been 95% electric while charging overnight at home. in 3 years I feel that the charging network will be strong enough to support the full electric choice. I also don't want to have the extra maintenance that comes with adding thousands of moving parts. I get that a lot of people are hesitant to make that move though so I love that it is an option and I hope that it brings more buyers so that the price can be reasonable. Can't wait for it though, I haven't been this excited for a vehicle since the Model 3 was announced, didn't make sense to get one for me at the time or I would be in one now. I plan on having the Volt until I get my Scout.
I wouldnt say never on the diesel. While you are right, VW will probably go with the porche flat 4 because of the fit. But in general, a vw 1.8 diesel would ROCK! Infact....Ive been WANTING to do that very thing for over a decade now... 1.8t VW engine as a generator for EV batteries/motor. Additionally Deboss garage is using a cummins 4cyl in their project/conversions that meets emissions guidelines without def. the flat, constant pull will be INCREDIBLY efficient.
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I say go all in on the EV version.. why... a lot less maintenance..less to go wrong.. cheaper to operate.. I dont tow so perfect for me..
I love the idea, but if there too expensive, they might as well call it now. Everyone's trying to hit this 40 to 65k price point but truth be told, that's a really big monthly bill for most buyers. I want to see a version start around 35k. Hit that price point and these will do well.
I'd like to see if the Innengine concept could be a possibility. I've always thought that apposed pistons, with the heads facing each other, made more sense to get more of the combustion converted into motion.
I love the idea of the scout and if they can actually stick to that 60k price tag it'll definitely be a good option but by the time they'll be releasing Edison motors will be releasing their diesel range extended conversion kits which will most likely be a cheaper and better option
what turned me off of the Harvester was from my experience owning the 4xe. In colder temps the engine would keep working because it would be stuck in FORM mode (Fuel Oil Remix Mode) to try and heat up the engine. Because of that I couldn't really use the benefit of driving pure electric and ended up awful fuel econemy for a 4 cylinder. It will be interesting to see how they implement this. For people thinking they will drive pure electric and only use gas once a week or every other week.. think again. That engine will want to keep the grease and engine going.
An extremely good looking product. So nice to see VW put out a clean sheet design. I am sure inspired by the Bronco's innovative design. A diesel motor would be the logical thing, but we will see an Atkinson cycle tiny 4 cylinder motor, probably 1.5 L or 1.2 L which corresponds to motors already being sold around the world
I agree that I don't think there will be a mechanical linkage between the generator and the wheels in the Scout. This will save a lot of space but will be less efficient. I actually think that the 350 mile EV version will use the same battery as the EREV. But the usable energy will be much less on the EREV to keep a large enough buffer to handle steep grades or other longer duration high load events. The bigger question isn't just where is the gas engine. But where is the gas tank, exhaust system and emission controls? Of note the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Volts worked quite a bit different. The Gen 2 could link the gas engine to the wheels through a (quasi electronic eCVT) that worked through a torque split between the two electric motors and the gas engine. It was really a masterpiece of engineering.
Logistics and supply chain risk management expert here. Without fail the diesel engine train argument always seems to get the fan boys going. Unfortunately, as with everything there is always a trade off. It might surprise people that these trains aren’t very efficient on their own. It only makes sense when you can disperse the energy cost across significant load. That said, I’m curious to see how both this Scout and BYD shark work over time. Only time will tell.
This is a fascinating option, and while you can tell people that 30 or 40 miles of all electric range gets them to work and back, this just seems the best of both worlds.
I really wish the Lightning offered a range extender like the Ram Charger. Put in a 50 KWh battery (75-100 miles per charge)then put the 2.7 eco boost range extender in the front.
I absolutely love my Bolt EV ( as does everyone who has one) but living in snow country would like the new Scout. If there was a small range extender Could it come on with 75% charge when going on a 400 mile trip? Could the engine run at night charging when you’re camping in the wilderness? Thanks for the informative video!
Have been combing the internet for details about this tech...given my recent Scout Traveler-Harvester resi. Have all the same questions/concerns you outline here...how well this tech is executed will drive product viability in the US, IMHO. If they can practically solve for off road and towing use models, guaranteed game-changing success. Truth be told, and I know this will rub some of the EV diehards the wrong way, I would gladly sacrifice the fronk for more utility (ie- larger geni)...just sayin. Either way, as a legacy '77 IHS II owner, I'm super stoked about the potential of owning a Scout again...just hope I can afford it if/when it drops, lol.
Based on the three bumps illustrated in the "generator" photo Scout put out, it appears it could be a 3-cylinder engine. Ideally, if it were a diesel engine, it would be best of both worlds.
I pre-ordered a Scout Pickup in the REX version hoping they reach Canada🍁. For my needs, 60 miles of EV range is plenty for a daily use. The only time I need more than 60 miles range is when I road trip, off road or tow my RV. So for the couple times a year I need to get far, the REX is the best option because I can reach remote areas and go camping. As far as the acceleration, I would rather have a slower and cheaper truck that getting a ridiculous 0-60mph accel time, this is a useless spec for my needs.
I don’t think the gas motor will drive the vehicle at all. And it will be just a generator to recharge the batteries on the go when needed or until it runs out of gas. Which I suspect the fuel tank will be rather small.
Rivian says….hold my beer. 😜 🤦🏻♂️ What will change between now and when this actually hits the market…..A great many things!! To me this is great hoopla for UA-camrs, lots of blah, blah, blah. By the time it comes out it’ll be half forgotten or the markets moved onto whatever the next new thing is. Good luck to Scout(I’m a deposit holder), test drive you in 3 years or read about you in bankruptcy court in 5.
If the range extender models can maintain 1000 ft lbs of torque without ever plugging in, it will be a game changer for long distance RV towers like me.
The PHEVs were a useful concepts in the 10's when charging infrastructure was almost non existent and people could only charge at home. Nowadays it's unnecessary, the charging network is big and fast enough to go anywhere just on electricity. Considering this vehicle isn't even coming right now but a few more years down the line when batteries will be even cheaper than now and the network even bigger to me it makes no sense to go for the Range extender version.
There are no chargers in the mountains. If these are supposed to be serious off-road vehicles then you need to be able to drive them out into the forest or other wilderness for camping. A few cans of fuel provide very efficient energy storage, and worse case, someone can run a couple cans out to you. Solar is another interesting idea for wilderness use, but I suspect the size of panels needed to provide meaningful charging of the vehicle battery would be very large.
there are loads of places where EV charging is neither cheap, easy, or accessible. Here in canada, if i want a car i can road trip, i'm not going to buy an EV. I expect there are still loads of places in the US, where that's the case too. NACS going public may help plug gaps in the network, but it is also likely to drive significantly more customers to tesla superchargers. We also already know that EVs are inefficient at doing truck things. making a pickup a REx is a perfectly logical step to making EV pickups practical and accessible for a broader customer base across a wider market. and i should hope that scout has aspirations of selling cars outside of north america. Ask jeep, dodge, ram and chrysler how its going, not having a viable product to sell outside north america's lax safety and emmissions regulatory environment.
They should make the battery smaller for the range extended vehicles. When it comes to off road or snow weight becomes an issue. My LR3 simply cannot do what an old 4runner that weighs half as much can. Even with twice the horsepower.
Ideally I would like to see a long range plugin hybrid with flat 1.6L turbo 200 HP engine with a starter/generator, clutched serially to a >3KW main electric drive motor, and standard 8 speed trans.
A Porsche boxer engine is definitely an out-of-the-box approach. I wonder how much more it would cost vs laying an L4 on its side. I wouldn't be surprised if Robin offers an FB derived range extender, perhaps with Atkinson cycle.
I don't completely agree with the statement that directly connecting the range extender gas motor to the drivetrain is more efficient than going thru a generator to the electric motor. If the power demand was high that you needed all the gas motor power to drive the vehicle, then yet that would be true, but I would assume that the range extender motor is large enough that in most driving situations the demand would be much lower than its capacity. I think for most of the time it would make more sense to run the range extender to run at its optimum efficiency and charge the battery, and let the vehicle drive off the electric motor. I think this saves the complication of being able to connect and disconnect the gas motor from the driveline, saves needing a transmission, and gets rid of software trying to balance the electricity and gas power going to drive the vehicle.
The Scout(s) will be hitting the market at almost the exact moment as solid state BEVs which will have a much greater range. I’m wondering if VW will end up skipping the range extender and going right to a solid state battery pack.
Lots of good points. But how do you build an ifs system robust enough for that weight? No one has yet in a production vehicle. If you cannot switch the engine on manually it will be useless. The driver must be able to select the situations beat suited for ev mode, or gas mode with out running the battery down. Has to be a robust engine, as it will run constantly towing and off road.
Tommy, how are they going cool this engine. Where would the radiator go? The current frunk configuration really limits radiator placement. What do you think?
Thank you Tommy for explaining this. I never fully understood the difference between hybrid and range extender vehicles. This was super informative
"Hey, Dad? Where do Scouts come from?"
"Well Son, when a Bronco and a Rivian love each other very much..........."
2.0L Diesel to electric generator is the way to go. Locomotives have been doing this for decades (called a transmission system).
I was looking for this comment before I made it. I didn't have to scroll to far down to find it.
Diesel has the issue of emissions controls, DEF, etc. With electric to provide torque and efficiency, a gas generator will probably give good results without the issues of diesel.
@@Stetrain A diesel that is acting as a generator really only has to be designed to work in a very narrow power and RPM range. I dont think it would be as challenging as making a diesel that has to operate as the direct driver of the wheels and needs to operate from 1000 to 4000 rpm and 0 to 200 hp. With a generator, you just start it up and run it at maximum output all the time, if it starts to charge up the battery above 80%, shut it down.
Diesels are smelly and polluting, which kind of defeats the main reason of getting an EV.
@@socalson7492 not really. With current emissions systems they are quite clean. Just like a gasoline car.
have you followed a gasoline car with the catalytic converters removed? It’s heinous.
80% of Scout reservations include a range extender!! That's crazy but totally makes sense.
People want one car to do it all, not a city car and a long distance car.
Hope to see more manufacturers move in this direction with range extenders, especially with Trucks and SUVs as mentioned.
Well said. I got a Maverick Hybrid months ago because it's got so many things going for it...but the Terra blows it out of the water in every way, and then some. I doubt the direct-to-consumer and estimated prices, sadly
I made my reservation, I am so excited for this truck. I’ve been wanting a truck that fit this mold for YEARS.
You can thank the Chevy Volt 2010 that introduced the range extending technology - 4 cylinders acting as electric generator to the electric motor driving the wheels, but the ICE engaged with the battery at high speeds. A perfect bridging technology which makes sense for off roading too.
I love my Volt! It's been such a little champ
It was clearly Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust (aka Geoff). Pure comedy gold.
@@fuzzy3440 The world's single most important vehicle ever and it was built by the three best blokes in automotive history.
Yep original 2011 Chevy Volt owner here. Was actually on a waiting list for a year too get it too. This is why I was excited that Scout may have something similar. I recall when BMW came out witg their I3 (I already owned my Volt) and I laughed so hard at how inferior of a design it was.
The i3 is better, until the battery is depleted. That hack to run it as an EU vehicle is killer.
Game-changing tech that's been around in locomotives since the 1930s. Really wish someone would put a diesel-electric setup into RVs. Oh, wait. Edison Motors is going to offer conversion kits that will work in a motorhome. Can't wait.
Been saying this forever
They're also working with deboss garage to make a kit for regular 3/4 tons!
I agree with earlier comments,generator power would likely be provided by VAG 3 cylinder turbo engine as used in the VW UP and Seat Mini. Lightweight and compact enough to wedge into the rear of the Scout Harvester. The power unit is already Euro 6 emissions compliant, so unlikely that VAG would invest millions in developing a one off flat 4.
Just to clarify, Bronco and the likes were made to compete with the Scout not the other way around. The Scout predates the Bronco and the Gmc/Chevy variants.
Does it predate Jeep? No. So was the Scout designed to compete with Jeep? Yes. Just to clarify, don't you know.
@@3rdpig It definitely doesn't predate Jeep.. Willys was around considerably earlier.
Well to clarify things even more Ford was a developer of the Jeep so even though the Bronco came out after it the Scout it was more of a decision to develop their own version and Han to compete with anyone else.
@@3rdpig the Scout and Bronco are not really like the original jeeps.
Great discussion. I've been driving my Gen 2 Volt for eight years now (180k miles) and it's still a fantastic combination of electric capability for local driving and gas for road trips. It was ahead of its time, and here we are 14 years after the first Volt was sold and there's surprisingly few PHEV options out there.
The Scout looks awesome and I think the decision to offer a range extender is a good one, I just hope it can do everything on gas that it can do on battery, like the Volt.
Trains have been using this tech for 30 years
@williamadams4843 indeed, far longer than that actually! Just without the battery to store any energy.
Thats a great 75% picture size at 4:01 😅
This is the subject that I am watching Scout for. Also, during an interview with a RAM engineer, he was asked why the V6 in the Ramcharger. His response was because that is what they had. It seemed less about capability and more about what they had on the shelf that fit.
Why would they ever consider something that they didn’t have?
I think there's a little more to it than "that's what they had", although that certainly helps a lot with development cost. The Ramcharger is designed to tow 14,000 pounds, it'll probably weigh close to 8,000 pounds, that's 22,000 pounds you need to lug up and over say, the Rockies. Not gonna do that with a little 4 banger generator.
@@ackattacker yes you could. towing such a trailer will require a constant 50 horsepwer, maybe
@@Drewcardello Ramcharger and all electric full-sized pickups average 2 mi/kwh flat highway not towing. Typically you get half that towing flat (1 mi/kwh) and roughly half again going up grade (0.5 mi/kwh). To sustain towing uphill at 75 mph you are going to need minimum 150kw (75 mph/0.5 mi/kwh) generated electricity, plus some extra for efficiency loss. This is right in the range of the special Atkinson cycle Pentastar when you add generation losses. It was an existing asset and to develop a new Atkinson generator would be expensive, but it also fits the need very well.
Thanks for the clarification on Volt vs BMW I3 and what this likely means to Scout. As an owner of a 2011 Volt (was on a waiting list for that too), if Scout builds this similar to how our Volt operated, that is run independently on gas without having to charge, I will be all over keeping my reserved unit with Range Extender. However, if it will simply be used to slow down the loss of full battery power, I will change to full EV. I already own an EV (replaced Volt with Mach E) and I definitely desire the full EV performance with range and acceleration. The main reason I would get the range extender would be because that would truly make new owners to the tech more accepting by eliminating range anxiety, just like the Volt did for me. That would be huge for resale. But I can also live without that as I rarely need to charge outside of home as it is.
As a note, with the Volt you did lose power when climbing extensively unless you prepared beforehand and set it to Mountain mode which had the limit where the gas engine kicked in at 50% instead of close to 0%.
After confirming the width they originally stated is with mirrors (thank god), im very interested in the range extended SUV. The only reasons i don't have a reservation are:
- i don't buy first year vehicles
- i want to know, once the battery and fuel tank are empty, if you refuel the tank, what kind of range and power does that offer? I do a lot of road trips, up to 1000mi in a day, and I can't wait around to charge for long. It doesn't need to be 500 miles of range on just a tank with no charging, but it has to be enough to get from nowhere to somewhere with a dc charger that is available, fast, and operational. Which sadly isn't trivial in Canada or the US yet
Agreed on diesel. Farmers have been using diesels as irrigation pumps for decades. They make good generators. Have to get past American perceptions- but look to Europe- they have been using diesel vehicles for decades.
The fact that it's a VW based company will make selling it with a diesel generator a hard sell in the US
Now is not the time to look at Europe.
I'll drive my 2008 320 CDI until they throw me in jail for doing so. Miss my wife's Passat TDI terribly. 50+ mpg all day long, every day.
I have to say, as a very happy i3S rex owner, I've had my mind set on eventually trading it up to the Neue Klasse 3 that's on the horizon. However, since the Scout reveal I think I've changed my mind. As a northwesterner who loves the outdoors it would better fit my lifestyle and the extra range would be better suited to the longer distances between places out here.
While typing this, it seems I've made up my mind to place a reservation order... 🤔
Something Scout should seriously consider is additional partnering with Rivian to help build out the Adventure Network and get a elevated level of access as a result (similar to what Rivians get). One of the big issues is charging availability in the remote areas Scout is designing for.
When Tommy was at the Scout event there was a sample of the charger that uses the Tesla network. Scout added the range extender engine so you can go to remote locations without charging stations by taking Jerry cans of gas with you.
@@aerynlovell4754well all EVs are switching to NACS, including Rivian it doesn’t mean that they have a deal to only work with Tesla. I agree that I hope they work with Rivian to build out the RAN to offer legit competition to the supercharger network.
Lots of people are still unsure about bev. I was, but own an r1s and charging hasn't been an issue at all. But for those who want gas as a backup, this is a great solution. Had this been out, i likely would have opted for the ev version with locking diffs.
I’m a fan but as we all know tech is constantly changing it’ll be interesting to see how it’ll stand against the competition by the time it rolls off the lot
I’m with you on the diesel generator. That’s what my locomotives use and we absolutely abuse those engines. Still, hoping Scout pulls this off as I reserved one with a gas generator. If they don’t, I’ll just buy some old Jeeps and mod them to modern standards.
This is what they should have been doing from the beginning.
Somewhere I heard it called a generator. That makes me assume it's just that, a generator to recharge the battery for 150 more miles.
Agreed. That's why they don't call it an engine, because it isn't driving anything. Just charging the batteries.
@@TheBeatenPaths I expect that the battery will be smaller and extender will add more like 200 miles.
@@rickmcdonald7075 Have any battery size details been released?
@ it’s all conjecture at this point.
100 hp 1000cc Flat TWin !!! 500cc cylinder displacement is the German ideal size for an engine and the rest of the world seems to agree. With the flat twin you can have the same cylinder for more economy of scale with the head rotated 90 degrees to the bore to have the ports horizontal ... BMW have been doing it forever.
I agree with previous comments with use of VWs 3 cylinder to manage volume, cost and weight. As advertised, this is a range extender, with the idea of leaving home with a full or relatively full battery to bypass a charge stop or two during a lengthy road trips. It will most likely be running continuously on the highway, and only while in motion in the city. Lawyers will most likely restrict use of this to while vehicle is in motion, to avoid carbon monoxide buildup within enclosed spaces. I wouldn't expect this to be designed for prolonged stationary charging.
In my estimation, the only engine that makes sense for this generator in the current VW lineup globally is the 1.4L TSI. Maybe the Porsche 2.0L, but that adds a lot of unnecessary cost and complexity.
But because the engine doesn't power the wheels it doesn't need to meet the same highway emissions regulations. Diesel is still too heavy, bulky, expensive, etc. But it opens the door to outside manufacturers like Kawasaki or Rotax. Or perhaps the best possibility, leaning on their previous partnership with Ford and getting the 2.5L Duratec.
I LOVE the idea of the range extender, I just am worried that it is such an afterthought that they might screw up the implementation
They haven't built anything yet (even the plant is still under construction). How can it be an afterthought?
@@WramblinWreck2187 They talked in another video about how they finished the design process and weren't sure where they were going to put the engine
@@stephenreaves3205 hopefully it's designed with the intent to use generator's waste heat. I would only use the generator in cold weather. Actually it would be nice to be able to remove it for the summer. Kinda like when you have to winterize your boat and house
Thanks, Tommy! Another great job explaining all this!
My thoughts on the generator are that it will be an air-cooled gasoline engine, like the BMW had. That will work fine as long as it comes on early and keeps the battery charge high enough to maintain normal driving. A decent air-cooled gas engine should add some significant range to it. It seems to work in the BMW.
Based on your description of where it will live on the Scout, I think air-cooled is the only option. There's no room for a cooling system, I don't believe. I don't think they need to mess with a liquid cooled engine here to get what they need. I also think it will not be connected to the drive wheels. It will only make electricity go for the battery.
This is actually a great way to do this kind of EV. You do not have to compromise the EV's battery or storage space needs/benefits for the onboard generator. But you still get the additional miles benefit the ICE generator brings.
One follow-up thought I have is the theory that you could put batteries in that space instead of the ICE generator. Doing this might increase the range to a similar amount as the ICE generator would do. This would also eliminate the added complexity of the ICE generator. However, the additional batteries could weigh more than the generator. That would negatively impact the payload and performance. The extra batteries could cost more than adding the generator, and they would definitely increase the overall charge time. So I think this type of range extender vehicle is an interesting concept. I hope Andre has an order in for a TFL long tester!
As a tow truck driver seeing what i'm seeing and what people are doing right now in the Detroit area, some major MAJOR!!! changes are going to have to happen to the infrastructure, alot more range and all these fires and people being lied to about the actual cost of owning an EV in the real world.
I like the idea of range extenders but it seems alot is going to have to change in 3 years to get the mainstream public on board, and with people leaving the EV market and going back to Hybrids and ICEs at a rapid rate that we are seeing right now, Scout better play there cards right with this.
If this was a straight up Hybrid, this would be gold, i just don't know what 3 years will bring, hopefully things will get better, but i see alot of people become all googly eyed over things like the Lightning, Cybertruck, Rivian, Hummers ECT... and we see them on the hood or getting traded in with in 6 months to a year because they just didn't deliver the promises they were told and keep up with their Gas and Hybrid counterparts.
It by no means is going work well if electric costs keep going up as we've seen now 4 or 5 times where it's costing people more to charge than to fill up, perhaps Scout should have a 3rd option to by a straight up Hybrid for States that have less EV mandates and only have the EV and range extender in more stringent states.
Reserved a Scout as soon as it was announced. They hit a home run with this one. Currently a Land Rover Defender owner and the Scout Traveler is the only vehicle that would make me part ways with the Defender
I have two second generation Volts and my sister and law has the first generation. The first generation’s gas engine does not supply power to the wheels. If you did not put it in “Mountain” or “Hold” modes, then on steep climbs, you were hosed. The second generation does connect to the wheels and operates like a hybrid without any really mpg hit. That was clearly the right decision.
That said, I have a reservation for the Scout Terra with the Harvester. With the bigger battery, I expect you will want to keep 25% of battery in reserve when you know there will be some climbs ahead. I think this will be the perfect electric truck for me to tow my travel trailer. I agree a diesel generator makes the most sense, and I hope they ignore the potential complaints and hope they do one. I can live with the Blue DEF if it has to have it.
A big problem with dual or quad motor 4x4s is steep inclines. For example, the BYD Shark has a 31° incline limit. The issue is that when traversing steep inclines the front wheels produce very little grip as most of the weight is on the rear axle. With dual motors, that means you really only get the power from the rear motor which will be roughly only half the overall power of the truck. A conventional 4x4 can send all of the engine power to the rear axle when the transfer case is locked. It can then multiply that power even further with low range. In theory a conventional 4x4 with an overall similar power output can put down around 4 times more power to the rear axle because of low range and locking transfer case. This is important for those who use their rigs off-road or tow a boat up a boat ramp.
Handsome truck indeed Tommy, and a very good spotlight, well done! 👍🐴🐴🥌
In the UK the Rouge is an X Trail and the E Force 213bhp version is a gas vehicle where the engine doesn’t drive the wheels only generating electricity for the electric motors to drive the wheels. Unfortunately there is no plug in option.
I think this is great, I think tuning the motor to come on when the battery is down to say 70% or so would work well. Keep that ele tric, towing motor, charged.
The BMW i3 story is so typically BMW. I have a 328 diesel and one day while cleaning it I realized that there was an extra set of lightbulbs in the tail lights. But when I turned my lights on or stepped on the brakes, the lights didn’t illuminate. I later learned that the extra lights were rear fog lights. Apparently rear fogs are required in Europe but not America, so BMW builds all their cars the same, to include putting in the light bulb, but then locks out the rear fog function via software lol.
😊 70s Volvos had them....just had to add a switch.
@ Haha yeah BMW even has the switch on the dash, it’s just unmarked lol. I just coded them back on and vuala, my car now has rear fogs which are actually very useful when backing into my dark driveway.
@@Soh90 and the fog😂
@@muddywater6856 🤣🤣 yes that too lol
Nice review, I'm actually holding out for the Scout truck. That is after watching reviews for the Ram Charger and Gladiator 4xe. Scout has done something here with lockers, disconnects, sliding roofs, 35" BFG KO3's, on board air, and the range extender. No one else comes close to that. Not to mention the personal choice for the retro style. There is something that these reviews miss. That is, people are already range extending their electric and plug in hybrids by using portable power stations and dual fuel gas/propane generators. And a portion of these same folk don't charge from the grid at home. They have home solar battery setups like my solar shed I'm building. Of course not charging from the grid is a barrier to entry for the non diy folks. But that is changing rapidly. Elons Tesla roofs and Tesla walls are an hands off consumer solution, and the solar industry announced at their show this year that they are moving to adding battery solutions to their solar packages. This allows EV and PHEV to charge from the home batteries when the sun is not out. What I would really like to see as us individual citizens who are solving the grid crisis one house at a time. Would be that we could get subsidized like the grid power companies. One could dream, but I'm not holding my breath. 😂
There are a zillion speculations on the size and functionality of the Harvester (range-extended version). Each component needs to be optimized for this function, that means if you want to run as a range extender, the battery system needs to be able to provide “full power” on just the battery. This is not just in terms of maximum amps, but also the impact of high power draw on smaller battery packs (if you halve the size of the battery pack the electric draw is spread across the smaller number of batteries thus increasing the duty-cycle impact on that smaller set of batteries).
All that said, I would like to see something around the size of the old VW bug flat fours, maybe the 1.3 liter at 40 hp and 250 lbs weight with only about 1/3 of the full EV version battery being sacrificed. Keep in mind that engine was built in 1966-1970, and optimized for a range of RPMs, an engine optimized for a generator will still be vastly different from the design standpoint.
And, yes my reservation is for the Harvester edition, but I am hoping for a few more efficiency points in batteries so I can go all EV.
In your previous video you wondered about how powerful range extender is needed. I think this is something you can find out yourself. Get a cheap bluetooth OBD2 reader and an app like Torque that can show the power produced by engine. Then drive it up the Ike Gauntlet and some highway towing and log the measurements. I feel that the hybrid drivetrains in such a way that the electric motor and battery provide the power and range extender the endurance. The battery should be big enough to get the vehicle up a mountain and the ICE can then slowly charge it up.
When I did these power measurements on my car I was surprised how low they were. At highway speeds Torque claimed I was only using 10-15 HP. But then I started thinking about how the power requirements go up squared with the speed it makes. My car had 150HP with a top speed of 220km/h. Half the speed and take a square root of 150HP and we are pretty close to the measurement by Torque.
The Chevrolet Volt was also a 'Range Extender' concept that was out long before most of these other offerings here in the USA.
Another tip as I’ve worked in a Rex project before - a driveshaft is always more efficient than an inverter so you are gonna lose power from the combustion engine which is why a plugin drivetrain is better. Also diesel is not ideal because it is heavy and you want power with a generator not torque 😊
I placed a reservation on the extended range Traveler. Looks like I am in the majority.
One way of possibly saving weight and cost would be to use one of the drive motors as the generator (driven by the engine). It would mean only having 2 wheel drive while using it but on long highway journeys it wouldn't be a problem.
Interestingly, the VW ID2 concept showed a huge storage area under the rear trunk floor, and i thought at the time it would be great to put a rex in there.
In the 80's we used to have that yellow international scout. The thing was a beast but a rust bucket.
We drive from the mid-west to each coast to visit grandchildren. My wife and I are considering the traveler with harvester. I'm waiting to see how the charger maintains the battery so we don't have a BMW type issue. It will also have to be cushy for long road trips. Offroad capable for snowy and light offroad day trips.
These seem great and are going to be available right when my current lease will be up, but I'm hesitant to reserve one sight unseen and the first editions will probably have a few problems. I think it's safer to wait a few years for them to work out the bugs first.
BEV makes the most sense for cars; REX for offroad, towing, work, etc. Home-charging for both.
But I still think propane should be explored for range ext
Diesel generator because I always say that. On top of the fact that when we eventually start finding less gas stations on the highways there will most likely still be semi trucks around, for a lot longer not to mention diesels availability for trains. Having a diesel run a vehicle like this makes so much sense.
Tommy,
I think in this case you’re off base. My expectation is that they’re going to run something small like a 50 or 60 hp generator set under the back of the scout platforms. I bet that you’ll be able to have the range extender run as soon as the battery drops below a certain relatively high threshold like 60 or 70%. If the generator set will be able to keep up with a vehicle that is getting about 2 miles/kWh and then will continue to run and charge the batteries when you shut the vehicle off that would be ideal. At least that’s what I’m hoping for. There really is no reason to have a generator set that can keep up with the peak need of a depleted battery. There should be an expectation that the battery is charged when the vehicle is stationary either through the charge port or the range extender M2C
Generally agree, although I suspect it will be more about slowing the rate of battery discharge. Enough to charge around 15Kwh/hr.
$0.02 as a volt owner... My guess is that it will likely be the 1.0 TSI EA211 3-cylinder engine with a few modifications for a few RPM set points, oil sump. Likely a belt drive to a fix DC voltage output, with variable amp eliminating the need for a separate DC-to-DC converter or AC-to-DC converter. The engine itself could be packaged in less than 200 pounds and with another 40 pounds for 5 gallons of fuel it could be easily offset by the smaller battery. The unit will be modular in that it can be lowered out, serviced while separated from the Scout without impacting the Scout as an EV.
People love their gasoline, but just thought I would mention Scout lives or dies by Stellantis' hardship and VW's ability to strengthen their balance sheets.
You should do an episode on Edison Motors. They are mostly semi trucks but are coming out with a pickup truck retro fit kit. They do a diesel generator to charge the battery.
Got our reservation in and agree with you completely. I will be shocked if we see these in 2026 though. Guess we will see. Also hoping this nudges Jeep in the same direction.
For the 4xe you have to charge it to get the extra horses from the electric motor. Does it work without charging? Yes, but the engine does not charge the battery
The range extender is a real afterthought. They don't know where it goes, and they don't know what it is. That is going to be real problem when bringing this product to market. It's going to impact every aspect of the vehicle design, especially once you start considering crash testing, heat management, exhaust placement, etc etc. I think Scout has some good ideas here, but they clearly haven't thought-through the impact of the generator. Also, there is _no way_ that what we are seeing here will come to market at $60k. None. They are either going to de-content this drastically, or raise the price.
My thoughts exactly
If only the designers and engineers had access to the knowledge base that comes from a wide range of automobiles which have been placing the engine behind the rear axle for almost 90 years?
lol! @ClintJohnsonWriter I couldn’t agree with you more.
Well yeah the base model will be de-contented vs the show car. 50k is totally reasonable for a base vehicle. In line with 4xE sport
Ramcharger is already in play with this design
Great video! there was a glitch at about the 4:02 mark where the screen goes black and just says "75% picture size" for about 10 seconds...
Trains have been doing this for decades. This makes the most sense for our country.
Personally I reserved the full electric. My driving habits with my 2013 Volt, as well as my 2017 Volt have been 95% electric while charging overnight at home. in 3 years I feel that the charging network will be strong enough to support the full electric choice. I also don't want to have the extra maintenance that comes with adding thousands of moving parts. I get that a lot of people are hesitant to make that move though so I love that it is an option and I hope that it brings more buyers so that the price can be reasonable. Can't wait for it though, I haven't been this excited for a vehicle since the Model 3 was announced, didn't make sense to get one for me at the time or I would be in one now. I plan on having the Volt until I get my Scout.
I wouldnt say never on the diesel. While you are right, VW will probably go with the porche flat 4 because of the fit. But in general, a vw 1.8 diesel would ROCK! Infact....Ive been WANTING to do that very thing for over a decade now... 1.8t VW engine as a generator for EV batteries/motor. Additionally Deboss garage is using a cummins 4cyl in their project/conversions that meets emissions guidelines without def. the flat, constant pull will be INCREDIBLY efficient.
I say go all in on the EV version.. why... a lot less maintenance..less to go wrong.. cheaper to operate.. I dont tow so perfect for me..
I agree. They should both be full EVs with native NACS ports and full access to the entire Tesla SuperCharger network.
I love the idea, but if there too expensive, they might as well call it now. Everyone's trying to hit this 40 to 65k price point but truth be told, that's a really big monthly bill for most buyers. I want to see a version start around 35k. Hit that price point and these will do well.
You’re DREAMING!
Great Video! You should interview Edison Motors. They’re doing some pretty cool stuff with diesel range extended pickup truck conversions.
I'd like to see if the Innengine concept could be a possibility. I've always thought that apposed pistons, with the heads facing each other, made more sense to get more of the combustion converted into motion.
I love the idea of the scout and if they can actually stick to that 60k price tag it'll definitely be a good option but by the time they'll be releasing Edison motors will be releasing their diesel range extended conversion kits which will most likely be a cheaper and better option
For reference, 400cc single cylinder is plenty to output 12,000 running watts
what turned me off of the Harvester was from my experience owning the 4xe. In colder temps the engine would keep working because it would be stuck in FORM mode (Fuel Oil Remix Mode) to try and heat up the engine. Because of that I couldn't really use the benefit of driving pure electric and ended up awful fuel econemy for a 4 cylinder. It will be interesting to see how they implement this. For people thinking they will drive pure electric and only use gas once a week or every other week.. think again. That engine will want to keep the grease and engine going.
An extremely good looking product. So nice to see VW put out a clean sheet design. I am sure inspired by the Bronco's innovative design. A diesel motor would be the logical thing, but we will see an Atkinson cycle tiny 4 cylinder motor, probably 1.5 L or 1.2 L which corresponds to motors already being sold around the world
Need to look at what Edison is doing and the new kits for trucks. Diesel generators are the way to go.
I agree that I don't think there will be a mechanical linkage between the generator and the wheels in the Scout. This will save a lot of space but will be less efficient. I actually think that the 350 mile EV version will use the same battery as the EREV. But the usable energy will be much less on the EREV to keep a large enough buffer to handle steep grades or other longer duration high load events. The bigger question isn't just where is the gas engine. But where is the gas tank, exhaust system and emission controls?
Of note the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Volts worked quite a bit different. The Gen 2 could link the gas engine to the wheels through a (quasi electronic eCVT) that worked through a torque split between the two electric motors and the gas engine. It was really a masterpiece of engineering.
Logistics and supply chain risk management expert here. Without fail the diesel engine train argument always seems to get the fan boys going. Unfortunately, as with everything there is always a trade off. It might surprise people that these trains aren’t very efficient on their own. It only makes sense when you can disperse the energy cost across significant load.
That said, I’m curious to see how both this Scout and BYD shark work over time. Only time will tell.
This is a fascinating option, and while you can tell people that 30 or 40 miles of all electric range gets them to work and back, this just seems the best of both worlds.
Thanks Tommy
I really wish the Lightning offered a range extender like the Ram Charger. Put in a 50 KWh battery (75-100 miles per charge)then put the 2.7 eco boost range extender in the front.
The most efficient generator would be a gas-turbine genset. After that a diesel running at constant RPM. Both are VERY expensive.
I absolutely love my Bolt EV ( as does everyone who has one) but living in snow country would like the new Scout. If there was a small range extender
Could it come on with 75% charge when going on a 400 mile trip? Could the engine run at night charging when you’re camping in the wilderness?
Thanks for the informative video!
Have been combing the internet for details about this tech...given my recent Scout Traveler-Harvester resi. Have all the same questions/concerns you outline here...how well this tech is executed will drive product viability in the US, IMHO. If they can practically solve for off road and towing use models, guaranteed game-changing success. Truth be told, and I know this will rub some of the EV diehards the wrong way, I would gladly sacrifice the fronk for more utility (ie- larger geni)...just sayin. Either way, as a legacy '77 IHS II owner, I'm super stoked about the potential of owning a Scout again...just hope I can afford it if/when it drops, lol.
Great information, keep it up!
You should check out what Deboss Garage is doing with a diesel hybrid truck.
Based on the three bumps illustrated in the "generator" photo Scout put out, it appears it could be a 3-cylinder engine. Ideally, if it were a diesel engine, it would be best of both worlds.
I pre-ordered a Scout Pickup in the REX version hoping they reach Canada🍁. For my needs, 60 miles of EV range is plenty for a daily use. The only time I need more than 60 miles range is when I road trip, off road or tow my RV. So for the couple times a year I need to get far, the REX is the best option because I can reach remote areas and go camping. As far as the acceleration, I would rather have a slower and cheaper truck that getting a ridiculous 0-60mph accel time, this is a useless spec for my needs.
Ducati is part of the VW group so it could be a motorcycle engine. Hopefully not woefully small like the i3!!
I don’t think the gas motor will drive the vehicle at all. And it will be just a generator to recharge the batteries on the go when needed or until it runs out of gas. Which I suspect the fuel tank will be rather small.
Rivian says….hold my beer. 😜 🤦🏻♂️ What will change between now and when this actually hits the market…..A great many things!! To me this is great hoopla for UA-camrs, lots of blah, blah, blah. By the time it comes out it’ll be half forgotten or the markets moved onto whatever the next new thing is. Good luck to Scout(I’m a deposit holder), test drive you in 3 years or read about you in bankruptcy court in 5.
If the range extender models can maintain 1000 ft lbs of torque without ever plugging in, it will be a game changer for long distance RV towers like me.
The PHEVs were a useful concepts in the 10's when charging infrastructure was almost non existent and people could only charge at home. Nowadays it's unnecessary, the charging network is big and fast enough to go anywhere just on electricity. Considering this vehicle isn't even coming right now but a few more years down the line when batteries will be even cheaper than now and the network even bigger to me it makes no sense to go for the Range extender version.
There are no chargers in the mountains.
If these are supposed to be serious off-road vehicles then you need to be able to drive them out into the forest or other wilderness for camping. A few cans of fuel provide very efficient energy storage, and worse case, someone can run a couple cans out to you.
Solar is another interesting idea for wilderness use, but I suspect the size of panels needed to provide meaningful charging of the vehicle battery would be very large.
there are loads of places where EV charging is neither cheap, easy, or accessible. Here in canada, if i want a car i can road trip, i'm not going to buy an EV. I expect there are still loads of places in the US, where that's the case too. NACS going public may help plug gaps in the network, but it is also likely to drive significantly more customers to tesla superchargers. We also already know that EVs are inefficient at doing truck things. making a pickup a REx is a perfectly logical step to making EV pickups practical and accessible for a broader customer base across a wider market. and i should hope that scout has aspirations of selling cars outside of north america. Ask jeep, dodge, ram and chrysler how its going, not having a viable product to sell outside north america's lax safety and emmissions regulatory environment.
They should make the battery smaller for the range extended vehicles. When it comes to off road or snow weight becomes an issue. My LR3 simply cannot do what an old 4runner that weighs half as much can. Even with twice the horsepower.
These are such good looking EVs, and I’m generally not an EV person. That truck especially 👌🏻
Ideally I would like to see a long range plugin hybrid with flat 1.6L turbo 200 HP engine with a starter/generator, clutched serially to a >3KW main electric drive motor, and standard 8 speed trans.
A Porsche boxer engine is definitely an out-of-the-box approach. I wonder how much more it would cost vs laying an L4 on its side. I wouldn't be surprised if Robin offers an FB derived range extender, perhaps with Atkinson cycle.
I don't completely agree with the statement that directly connecting the range extender gas motor to the drivetrain is more efficient than going thru a generator to the electric motor. If the power demand was high that you needed all the gas motor power to drive the vehicle, then yet that would be true, but I would assume that the range extender motor is large enough that in most driving situations the demand would be much lower than its capacity. I think for most of the time it would make more sense to run the range extender to run at its optimum efficiency and charge the battery, and let the vehicle drive off the electric motor. I think this saves the complication of being able to connect and disconnect the gas motor from the driveline, saves needing a transmission, and gets rid of software trying to balance the electricity and gas power going to drive the vehicle.
I ordered the SUV for my wife with the range extender. I'm in California. There's no way I would ever get a full EV under any circumstance.
BEV with range extender is a great idea. They also look fantastic. Price and workforce means this is probably a pass for me.
I ordered the basic EV setup. Usee to Teslas so not too worried about the range.
The Scout(s) will be hitting the market at almost the exact moment as solid state BEVs which will have a much greater range. I’m wondering if VW will end up skipping the range extender and going right to a solid state battery pack.
Would be cool if they have an easy way to drain the gas tank. So you don’t have to drive around with gas if you aren’t planning to use it for awhile.
Wankel or rotator engine would fit, and a small displacement to charge the battery would hopefully be reliable.
Lots of good points. But how do you build an ifs system robust enough for that weight? No one has yet in a production vehicle. If you cannot switch the engine on manually it will be useless. The driver must be able to select the situations beat suited for ev mode, or gas mode with out running the battery down. Has to be a robust engine, as it will run constantly towing and off road.
Tommy, how are they going cool this engine. Where would the radiator go? The current frunk configuration really limits radiator placement. What do you think?
EREVs are the way to go vs traditional hybrids --no transmission needed.
its VW group, they love a TDI we could very feasibly see a diesel range extender in this.
Diesel would be cool too because in the apocalypse you could power it off vegetable oil or syngas from gasified wood.
I think the range extender will use the frunk just like the BYD Shark.