NASCAR Front Steer vs Rear Steer: What's The Difference?
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
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Long time late model and super late model crew chief here. Front steer cars will understeer (push) under deflection while rear steer cars will oversteer (loose). From the drivers perspective, the front steer car will usually only require a little more input in the same direction to get around the corner if there's a slight push. If the car is loose it'll take countersteering to get around the corner. Although it's been said that "loose is fast," it makes for a long day for the driver if the car is loose and he's sawing on the steering wheel for a few hundred laps. A less experienced driver will nearly always feel more comfortable with the front steer car. FWIW.
Makes sense! I guess the goal would be to have your steering components strong enough to not have any deflection?
Is first time I ever heard it explained to where I understand what the difference in the terms simplified to where a dummy like me can understand
Get your car ready you've made a lot of friends in NC. You paid your dues with respect,and making videos that will last forever! Go Racing!!! It's not a dream anymore have some fun!😊
Thank you!!
I think a big reason for rear steer being popular at first was back in the days when most cars had to drive gravel and dirt roads front steer was really prone to damage from striking things and messing up alignment. With rear steer the axle protected the steering so you could mow over logs or plow off the top off a dirt rut and not damage anything.
That is a valid observation. My 72 Monte Carlo has a little frame horn skid plate that goes under the drag link probably for that reason!
I always knew the difference regarding in front or behind the hub, but didn't know the history and reasons. The comments have been educational, too!
Thank you Steve! I agree. We’re fortunate to have a good community around here
I recall from my days at Greenville-Pickens Speedway in the early 1970s that Banjo was known for the slogan “Banjo Matthews, Where Money Buys Speed”. Tim in northern TN
Love this kind of content, ive really begun to appreciate the science and thought behind car setups ever since i binged Mark Martin's podcast but the way you present it is easy for the layman to understand. Good work 👍
64 years young and yet another day goal archived, I learned something new. I had heard the term "front steer" and "rear steer car" over the years but really never heard an explanation until now!
Thank you again brother, I appreciate it!
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity boys lets go racing!!!
Fun fact: American cars were doing this far before many of the european makers. BMW didn't switch to front steer until the 90s. I converted my '84 E28 BMW from rear to front steer and the handling was much improved.
Had a shop teacher talk about this 20 yrs ago he said he used to build chassis back in the day keven Gingrich
any car, front or rear steer, if in a straight line, and if the front tires are splayed with toe out. the car will be "hunting", veering to the right sometimes or the left other times, being hard to control and keep steady.
a car with front steer will gain toe-out the sharper it is turned. a car with rear steer will gain toe-in as the wheel is turned.
Awesome! Two days in a row I get videos from Stapleton42 Thanks Mitchell and Logan..
Our pleasure!
Always heard these talked about, never heard anyone take the time to explain the handling characteristics of each. Glad to hear it!
I aliken it to holding the steering wheel under handed or overhanded.. Its a feel thing to the drivers hands.. Leverage... Some like the overhanded grip.. Some hold the wheel "in their lap" or underhanded.. Great video... Keep'em coming man.
I am salvage business and there are front and rear steer cars in everyday cars... Depends on design and room where they can fit the rack in i guess. Most all power or electric now.
I recall seeing Bobby Allison's hauler at Mike Laughlin's shop many times here in Greenville, SC. Ronnie Hopkins was here in Greenville, too. Banjo Matthews was about an hour away in Arden, NC.
You know, I followed NASCAR since about 30 years before you were born, and I never knew what forward or rear steer car was. I thought rear steer somehow meant the rear axle would do the turning in the corners. In all the shows on TV, not a one explained how that worked. Thanks Mitchel!
Thank you Larry!
Oh my I love this. It’s so hard to get technical info like this as just a fan.
Chevelle 1964 came out was always front steer.The Camaro Nova rear steer.keep up the good work 👏
Thanks, Mitchell! I've always driven front steer passenger cars. Chevelle, El Camino, etc. The physics of pulling v pushing seems like not beig on the brakes when turning...it doesn't bind the suspension up, it just works smoothly!
Thanks Mitchell for the explanation, always wondered what the geometry/strength/feel differences were. Have a great weekend!
I will also add that I have old timers say that rear steer worked better with bias ply tires, and front steer is better on radial tires!
Now is that accurate, maybe or maybe not, yet I drove both styles and I prefer front steer.
The best way I heard the difference between front and rear steer, is the difference between having the mule push or pull a wagon!
I get so many compliments on my shirt that's the Stovola style.
That’s awesome. What should we do next?
Yess I was hoping you were doing the IROC thing! I was hoping to get out there myself but it doesn't seem likely. At least I'll get to live vicariously through y'all :D.
I picked up a while ago on what the front vs rear steer was, but my mind ALWAYS goes to the rear wheels steering at first, haha. Thanks for the explainer, and I see some nice info in the comments too!
Thank you!
Explain wedge adjustment. Great technical video.
Coming soon when we do the setup video on my GNSS car!
Thanks for this. Was wondering from the last vid.
Understand the car taking over your time. Do what you gotta do
Don’t listen to knuckleheads🤘🏻Thx bud🏁
Thanks for the explanation. I have wondered what that all meant.
You answered my question on the crossmember cut out. I was faced with that problem and wasn't sure exactly how to tackle it. You solved it for me also you explanation on front and rear steer was spot on thank you for that I keep looking for close-up shots of the inside of your car with the springs and where the air ducts for the rotors are located. Take care of my friend look forward to one day being able to meet you both God bless and stay safe 🙏👍👍👍👍
Thank you Steve!
I really miss the show NASCAR Performance. You should talk tech in some videos and maybe bring in some of your crew chief contacts occasionally. Love the content!
Good idea!
Cool your going to IROC I live in Connecticut
Are you going?
Nicely done!
Front steer all day long,the stick in the sand is a good analogy,
I googled it first time i heard someone say it in your video lol
This was great Mitchell! Can you do a video on coil binding and explaining its advantages and is your car going to be coil bound?
Great suggestion! That’s a topic for Doug to explain 😂
happy 4th of july buddy,
awesome info and can’t wait for july videos 👏🏼
Thanks! You too!
Explained perfectly. Now I understand. Thanks buddy
As I recall Banjo Matthew’s chassis were front steer and everything else was rear. I could have that backwards but I do know drivers had preferences once there were preferences available. This was before teams started building the chassis in house and went to different steering for different tracks. I also recall the steering ratio was different for front vs rear steer.
Banjo was rear steer. The ratio probably was different because the pitman arm length between the two was different. Gotta change the box ratio to get the same end result in wheel movement if your pitman arm is not the same length
Omg you have other thing going. Shocking.... not . Thanks for all you guys do. Its greatly appreciated
Thank you Ben!
The biggest problem for a rear steer car is the center link has to run under the oil pan of the engine - a freaking nightmare for the engine's oiling system. The stick pushing in the sand is a good analogy , but it is worse than you were told: both the left and right tires splay out the faster the car goes down a straight making any toe adjustment meaningless. And none of that BS is going to help you when you get down into a corner to try and turn the car. And you can forget about the bumpsteer and roll center geometry of the front end - it is worse than the nightmare the engine Dudes had to deal with.
Great video mate
Thanks 👍
Looking forward to Julys videos , good job team !
Thank you Brian!
Very Kool video ty
Glad you enjoyed it!
I wish todays NASCAR racecars had soul like they did back in the day.
Me too
I agree…I never realized how much love I had for the car and the team and the guys at the shop until I didn’t have them
Do an explanation of a 'dropped front end clip'.
Great quick explanation, don't think it needs to be much longer than that. And yeah when are you going to do shirts with your car on them?
Very soon! We are working on that
Rear steer is also used currently by screwing the rear end housing in the car.
Who created the 9 inch flooter
I’d love an update on the 72’ Monte
That can be found in the upload before this one!
Was the decision on front steer/rear steer dictated at all by how the 'stock' car was set up, or do you think just driver preference? Thx! Looking forward to the next two segments on the race car and the Johnny Benson video. Shirt suggestion--how about doing one like you have on today only put your car on it?
It was that way in a sense because the "stock" modified galaxies were that way and it just kinda stayed. Like the same Ford floorpan stamping being used up until the end of Gen 4 era! We are working on a shirt with my car. I need to finish the front graphics before the artwork can be done lol
I'm curious about tires. Most of my racing is online and the occasional late model fill in for my brother in law. Why does every lower series run Hoosier? Is it a cost thing or is Hoosier actually the better tire. I'd imagine if Goodyear was the premier tire, they'd be all over the lower series and not just cup, Xfinity and trucks.
Hoosier makes bias ply tires I don’t know if Goodyear does. It’s likely a cost vs effort thing for the manufacturers. They have their own lanes for the most part.
Hoosier had (has?) a better Contingency Award Program. When the tire wars were going on and we had a choice, Goodyears were the faster tires, but somehow tracks kept selling Hoosiers and they became "spec" tires for many tracks and series. We speculated that the tracks were also getting kickbacks, but had no way to prove it.
bobby allison won all those races with bud moore including daytona 500 in rear stear banjo cars. fact!!
Maybe bud wouldn’t change it for him 😂
@@stapleton42extra nobody ran front stear at that time. bobby won alot of races for bud. i dont think he would want to change a thing. banjo cars were the chassis to run lat 70s early 80s
Pulling is stronger and quicker.
Old Ford stuff then Old Chevy stuff
I'm #49 on the "like Button" Hi! When I tried SCCA Road racing I had a 67 Camaro. It was Rear steer. I sold it to get a 71 Camaro because it was Front steer I was told that was better
Interesting. The factory 71 Camaro was front steer maybe yours was on a different chassis or something