Ivan Illich | Life as Idol, with David Cayley (1992)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2021
- In 1989, Ivan Illich made an extraordinary presentation to a convocation of American Lutherans. He began it by pronouncing a solemn curse on the contemporary conception of "life." He was thinking of the life that is imagined when one says, "Get a life!" or the life that so many current discourses seek to to conserve and manage. David Cayley was intrigued by Illich's argument that life had become a dangerous contemporary idol and sought an opportunity to talk with him about this theme, which had been entirely missing from their first conversation recorded in 1988.
The opportunity came in the winter of 1992 in Bremen, and the results were broadcast as a single program later that year. A transcript of that conversation also comprised the final chapter of the book "Ivan Illich in Conversation" (www.amazon.com/Ivan-Illich-Con.... The broadcast remains probably the least commented and least listened to program Cayley ever put on the air. It was almost as if neither of the men had even spoken. This was especially striking, with Illich's claim so bold, so pertinent, and so illuminating: he was doing nothing less than identifying the very shape of contemporary religiosity.
In the hope that it will get a better hearing in a post-pandemic world, when claims to manage and save "life" have justified unprecedented interventions, here it is...
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For more of Cayley's insights related to Ivan Illich and the idolatry of "life" - especially in the context of the recent pandemic - there are three tremendous essays (which we aspire to record and post on this channel, in the future):
** 4/8/20: Questions About the Current Pandemic From the Point of View of Ivan Illich (archive.is/4lOZN)
** 12/4/20: Pandemic Revelations (archive.is/TCtOv)
** 4/1/21: Gaia and the Path of the Earth: Lovelock, Illich, & Latour (archive.is/ic9da)
And while not written by Cayley or directly addressing Illich's thought, Charles Eisenstein's essay "The Coronation" from March of 2020 has deep resonance with these ideas, as well (archive.is/181EJ)
For those who would prefer to read rather than listen, David Cayley has graciously hosted the transcript of this episode, here:
www.davidcayley.com/s/Life-as-Idol.pdf
Listening allows one to hear Illich himself. This is an invaluable resource.
Even better, thanks to UA-cam, one may skip the glosses.
thank you for this. it's a miracle we can hear his voice and feel his personality thru all these years and changes and thru the oblivion.
Glad you found it! All credit goes to David Cayley and the CBC for publishing these interviews, I'm just mirroring them and trying to grapple with what's presented, myself. I'm hoping to add something decent by getting the closed captions right and eventually by recording some of Illich's written commentary on the themes of Life-as-Idol and the Corruption of Christianity that has not been put in audio format, yet.
if i could be of any help to you, i am here to do all i can.
i look for illich's voice and presence anywhere i can find it, perpetually, i always feel like i cannot get enough of his thoughts and his energy, to bless and enable this existence.
i did not find this on david cayley's site before, although maybe i just did not even expect to find unseen, un-youtubed videos there, and maybe i am wrong.
i do know there is a german video of him for which there exists a transcript that i wish i knew german to decipher.
What and amazing piece of interview with incredibly challenging thoughts. If you have more of those, please share them, the voice of this man is so important to try grasp our technological and scopic time.
I wonder if Wendell Berry read Illich. I wouldn't be surprised. Lots of parallels here to Life Is a Miracle by Berry.
Amazing
im glad someone uploaded this to youtube, i always came back to it on cayley's site and now in covidworld it helps explain why this current "biological" state of exception holds such inarguable authority in peoples minds
What is the name of the song at the start and end? Thanks for this upload! Lovely thinker this man is. I envy his erudition and eloquence. I hope to be like him
Last 5 minutes , were an admonition of what’s happening today , He was a prophet , a philosopher and a deeply convinced primitive Christian.
A time when we hear "we are the virus". Yeah terrible religiosity that, if it continue going on the endline will be sacrifice, mass sacrifice.
1989年，伊万·伊利奇(Ivan Illich)在美国路德教会的一次会议上做了一次特别的演讲。 他一开始就对当代的"生活"（life）概念宣布了一个庄严的诅咒。他想到的是当人们说"Get a life!"（好好享受生活！）时想象出来的生活，或者是当前许多论述试图保护和管理的生活。 David Cayley对Illich关于生活已经成为危险的当代Idol的论点很感兴趣，并寻求机会与他讨论这个主题，这在他们1988年录制的第一次谈话中完全没有提及。
这个机会是1992年冬天在不来梅出现的，结果在当年晚些时候作为一个单一节目播出。 那次谈话的记录也构成了《Ivan Illich in Conversation》一书的最后一章。这次节目可能仍然是Cayley在节目中评论最少、听得最少的节目。这一点尤其引人注目，因为Illich的主张是如此大胆，如此中肯，如此具有启发性：他所做的不过是确定当代宗教性的形态而已。
In the Lord's Prayer, we pray ' give us THIS day our daily bread'. It is THIS day that matters, it is THIS day that nourishes, it is THIS day we share together. We do not hoard or go without for fear of not having enough, we do not pray for tomorrow's bread also. We pray for God to provide for THIS day. THIS day is the gift and we treasure it the way we treasure the most miraculous gift.
Ah, so you're also a sun worshiper.
Very good, though Illich ought not to have chided activism; "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead.
For a different view than Mead’s, I recommend you read or listen to writer and former environmental activist Paul Kingsnorth on what led him to abandon his activism.