Ivan Illich | The Corruption of Christianity: Corruptio Optimi Pessima (2000)
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- This series was broadcast in 2000, twelve years after David Cayley's first interviews with Ivan Illich were presented on CBC's program "Ideas". Cayley and Illich had become friends in the meanwhile, and had spent as much time together as Illich's peripatetic style and Cayley's settled life in Toronto allowed. During that time they again and again discussed a theme that was barely present in the first series: Illich's idea that the Western civilization that grew out of Latin Christendom could only be fully grasped when understood as the corruption, or perversion of the New Testament. When it became clear that he would never be able, in the the time remaining to him, to write a book on this theme, Cayley offered to try and elicit his ideas in a series of interviews. These took place over a period of several weeks in 1996 and 1998 and were then broadcast on Ideas. Four years later, and two years after Illich's death in 2002, a complete transcription of these interviews was published, with a preface by Canadian philosopher Charles Taylor, under the title "The Rivers North of the Future: The Testament of Ivan Illich" (2005).
Here is the five-part radio program...
00:00:00 Part I- The Church as the source - for good & ill - of modern institutions of health, schooling, and commodified consumption.
00:51:10 Part II - A look back to the Christian Middle Ages, where [Illich] finds the origin of contemporary ideas of conscience, the rule of law, nature and technology.
01:41:43 Part III - The way in which the sense of sight has changed under the influence of the Christian claim that Jesus was the image of God.
02:33:16 Part IV - The disintegration of cosmic fittedness and contingency into atomization as a perversion of Christianity
03:24:00 Part V - The New Age of Systems, and the vocation of the friend
Here are some additional resources related to Illich's thesis on the corruption of Christianity:
1992: Illich on "Life-as-Idol," which he saw as a particular manifestation of this broader corruption of the Gospel ( • Ivan Illich | Life as ... )
2005: "The Rivers North of the Future: The Testament of Ivan Illich" as told to David Cayley
2015: "Christ and Anti-Christ in the Thought of Ivan Illich" (archive.is/IePX2)
2016: "'The Apocalypse Has Begun': Ivan Illich and René Girard on Anti-Christ" (archive.is/d78ry)
2021: "Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey" by David Cayley, specifically Chapter 12, "Corruptio Optimi Pessima"
Thank you for posting this. Important to archive programs like this
Merci mille fois !!! Un esprit lumineux ! On va au fond du problème et on en ressort plus libre. Un prophète ???
This is such a gem. Thank you for posting 🙏
no fluff here, a youtube title that is real, a treasure ..
Thanks for posting this.
For our times!
Thanks great upload
The way this ends is sublime!
Talk about a Prophet, every seed sown here has now, in 2022 AD become a Black Spring. This man IIych, may prove, for me at least, a Game Changer.
For those who would prefer to read rather than listen, David Cayley has graciously hosted the transcripts of these episodes:
**Part 1 - www.davidcayley.com/s/corruption1.pdf
**Part 2 - www.davidcayley.com/s/corruption2.pdf
**Part 3 - www.davidcayley.com/s/corruption3.pdf
**Part 4 - www.davidcayley.com/s/corruption4.pdf
**Part 5 - www.davidcayley.com/s/corruption5.pdf
Awesome👍
Magnificent and truly starling from Cayley and Illich! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you
Thank you 🙏🏼 I hear wisdom.
This was excellent - thank you for posting the whole thing!
You're welcome! I agree, Part 3 especially is something I come back to repeatedly for its insight into the historical shift in how we see. Much to chew on, here.
thank you for this ❤️
He was seeing our present day ills
BOYO ALERT
Interesting interpretation of the Good Samaritan. Would also apply to Jesus's view of family-"Who is my mother?"
Can anyone point me towards sources about conspirazio?
The idea that Jesus was divine -- as a human being -- does that change each of us somehow?
Yes. The term is Predestined. Foundation of the world means conception of the world. Predestination is tied to the conception of the world meaning start of the universe or beginning of the universe. Meaning Predetermined universe. What this really means is by God's Grace if one believes and obeys Christ, one will gain knowledge of God and obey his will through the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer. That brings one into the family of God which is Predetermined or chosen beforehand. This indwelling of the Spirit in the beliver is part of God's divine will after the Fall of Man. This is also why we are called Sons of God, which is to say reformed into the image of his Son. Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30-31 KJV - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Ephesians 1:4-6 KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
1 John 3:1-2 KJV - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
The sons of God existed before physical creation. Part of what happens to us after glorification is to become exactly that. To become Sons of God. We know the sons of God existed before Adam was made because they were there when God made the Stars.
Job 38:1-11 KJV - Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
God is speaking to Job and talking to him about the creation of the world and mentions how the Sons of God shouted for Joy at the stars. We also know that Satan was among and still is one of the Sons of God. This is why Satan is in the Garden and can speak to Adam and eve but no other humans existed before Adam and even. This also is the reason behind who God is talking to in Genesis while he's in the Garden after casting out Adam and Eve.
Job 1:6 KJV - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Genesis 3:1 KJV - Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Revelation 20:2 KJV - And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Genesis 3:14 KJV - And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis 3:22 KJV - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
John 15:26-27 KJV - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
He devolved into an Anabaptist.
All true people of faith eventually recognise the errors of Rome
> Blessings for same-sex unions possible in Catholicism, Pope Francis wrote to conservative cardinals
The latest in a string of demoralizing headlines from the RC. I'm not an anabaptist, but when it comes to the See of Rome: Ye shall know them by their fruits. We've reached the "blessing fornication" stage of accepting liberal presuppositions.
@@thegoldenthreadlet’s look back to Orthodoxy
Lol. What utter tripe.@@kadeyt9637
What utter tripe. Embarrassing.@@kadeyt9637