First ranking the Doctors by "size" and now obsessing on Daddy Brigs sex-life... yeah, The lack of 'Action' during lockdown is starting to get to ye, ain't it Davis?
You forgot to mention how the Brigadier survived into 2050s. He was rejuvenated at Bernice Summerfield and Jason Kane’s wedding in 2010. Lived in the realm of Avalon after Doris died in 2012 and only returned to Earth in 2032 with a new wife. Or in the mentioned story, he and Doris met the Doctor in 2017. Don’t even get started on his encounters with the 6th Doctor
NO! But do read The Scales of Injustice and Harvest of Time. They're good. Though Harvest nearly ruins the Master. I'd give you more recommendations, but I've only read five Doctor Who books so far and only two of them are genuinely good. Two of them (The Eye of the Giant and The Devil Goblins from Neptune) are supremely average, and Deadly Reunion is bad.
Starting to think I've been watching Doctor Who all wrong. - I never minded the CyberBrig - I've never been furious about Hell Bent, or Series 9 in general for that matter (it's actually a great series) I could go on but the rest aren't really relevant. Also the Brig is a power top
I wasn't furious, more '...is that it?' But Clara being immortal sparked a fanfic idea where she teams up with Delgado's Master and a robot bounty hunter on a Tarantino-esque adventure. One day I'll write that. So Hell Bent will have done some good then? Or possibly immeasurable evil, hard to tell...
8:54 Wasn't expecting a Monster Hunter reference in Broke Canon! For those who don't know, the depicted water dragon is Guanzorumu, from Monster Hunter Frontier. It is indeed a water dragon.
I feel hell bent is an underappreciated masterpiece. it completely avoids the boring ass gallifrey homecoming story and instead concludes the thematic arcs and character arcs that have been developing throughout s9 by telling the far more interesting and compelling story of a companion finally becoming a true equal to the doctor. also subverting the classic rtd arc word trope by making the hybrid the doctor and clara's toxic and destructive relationship instead of some embarrassing cgi monster is chefs kiss material
i love both the doctor becoming a tyrant and the clara drama, and they’re both one in the same story as the doctor broke all his rules because he wanted to save his soulmate. I don’t think I was clear but what I find completely boring and dull is a gallifrey episode that explores the lore and mythology (basically the timeless children and we all know how that turned out). maybe im in the minority but i don’t think gallifrey and its lore is that interesting, so having an entire episode dedicated to a mythical creature called the hybrid from some random prophecy would be boring af and would feel out of a place from such a character arc driven series
@@nightowl8477 yes!!!!! In 2015 I didn't. In 2020, after seeing the concept played out in earnest by stories like The Timeless Children and Spyfall, I absolutely do. They have absolutely vindicated stories that have subverted those types of lore-heavy stories in retrospect.
@@krosisen - lore can be boring when you get too stuck into it, yeah. But the Doctor vs. the Time Lords has never reached its potential, and I could have had a whole series of it (if we had the budget.) You can see why I'm pissed we only got 20 minutes.
@@SamyulDavis For me, her not going back immediately ruins it because if there is time fallout because of this she looks just as reckless as the Doctor by not going back straight away. If there isn't and she can come back at any time then the whole conflict is pointless. 12 looks really silly for shooting the General now if the solution was that simple. Yes, there was no time-related consequences for 10 in Waters of Mars, but that was framed around 10's arrogance, and there were consequences for that, Adelaide killed herself.
@@Ben-vf5gk To be fair, 12 comes to his senses just in the nick of time, and that's only because the actual conscience voice of Clara (not the voice of Clara in his head) that brings him back to the brink. I completely empathise with the perspective of the one closest to you, setting you straight. The 12th Doctor DOES look silly for shooting the general. He looks evil and unhinged, in fact. But that's also kinda the point. And he does face ramifications for it. If he had just left Clara's memory as Me described it "fleeting and beautiful", he would've remembered her as she was. That's the price he pays. It's not quite 'bane of Gallifrey', sure. But that's not really what the story was about. The Doctor is a demigod by the time of Heaven Sent, and the only consequences he deserves at this point are his personally inflicted and intimate ones. A major part of 12 not killing himself is being reunited and completed with the memory of Clara IMO. Hope this adds to your vision of the series, rather than takes away. I also struggled with Hell Bent for years, and dislike a lot of Moffat material despite seeing the intention in it (Good Man Goes to War, Wedding of River Song etc)
Regarding the dragon thing, it reminds me of how the Tenth Doctor was skeptical of the devil when meeting the Beast in The Satan Pit, and 13 said she didn't believe in the devil, despite the Doctor meeting numerous beings who are devil-like or claim to be the devil throughout multiple incarnations previously. Especially after 10's encounter, it's a little weird to be in such denial, but then again 10 himself was in denial. I can understand not wanting to believe in the devil, but what reason is there to deny dragons, since that has no religious implications?
Well he had a daughter. Kate Lethbridge-Stewart? First appeared in Series 7's Power of Three, last appeared (on television) Series 9's Zygon Invasion two parter.
@@eli_berdugo04 I was shocked by this strange Moffat adherence to canon. Love that like all showrunners and creators, Moffat used the supposedly 'non-canon' with the 'canon.' It's allllll arbitrary. Ideas are sitting these to be picked and plucked.
Wouldn't call Hell Bent a masterpiece myself. It doesn't know what it wants to be - *Doctor, Tyrant of Gallifrey,* or *Doctor, Lovesick for Clara.* Steven could have done either story masterfully but together...we just don't get enough time with either. Maybe it should have been a three-parter. Or four-parter if you include Face the Raven.
I've rewritten Hell Bent without Clara, and it just flows so much better. I barely even added in anything new, too. Plus, Face the Raven was just a better episode for Clara to die in. She didn't *need* to come back, and the thematics aren't good enough to justify it. Sorry not sorry, bro.
Sure it does. Its the end of the Clara arc, pretending to mirror a Gallifrey homecoming epic as a subversion for what every Who finale since the revival has returned to: character resolution There is no hell bent without clara, it doesnt exist. You've just written The Timeless Children!
@@SamyulDavis - personally, I was satisfied with Clara's resolution in Face the Raven - with Heaven Sent almost acting as a coda to her arc. I think Clara being an adrenaline junkie trying to be the Doctor was explored at it's best in Face the Raven itself, and unearthing that supposedly finished arc in Hell Bent just feels gratuitous. The Timeless Children was just exposition dumping lore changes. I'd have 12 embody the Time Lord Victorious. For all the Doctor tells us about how dangerous he can be, we rarely see the full extent. Heaven Sent would have been the calm before the storm, and Hell Bent would have shown us Tyrant Twelve. Maybe my need to see more Rassilon vs. Twelve is superficial, but I think it would have worked better for most.
@@SamyulDavis - in my rewrite, Twelve acknowledges how important Clara was to his identity (The Name of the Doctor, the 50th, Listen, etc.) and - with her gone - must rediscover who he is. It would have been a nice (somewhere mocking) acknowledgment of those who called Series 8 and 9 'The Clara Show', and would actually make the Doctor's pursuel of the Hybrid make more sense. I mean, we're on Gallifrey! Use that setting to your thematic advantage, and embed some themes of identity. The Hell Bent Steven wrote could have been set anywhere, really.
@@nightowl8477 Every bit of payoff that S9 set up requires Clara in person The fact that Clara's real reaction to his pain is completely different to how 12 pictured it in his TARDIS ass mind palace. 12 isn't reasonable enough to be given agency or the reigns of this story. Id even go as far to say it ends up as more of a Clara story than a Doctor one. Clara taking control of her own fate is also a purpose of the story.
DAVIS AAA I remember, he said that he slew Polish mythological dragon, I forgot it was said there sorry! Btw it stirs things so much more cuz that dragon was a part of the myth?¿ some supernatural shit going on here lol
DAVIS yup Kraków! Funny, I picked the novel bc I’m myself polish and heard this legend 18378384 times but overtime I forgot it was actually in the book hahah
1:31 - I'm sorry but that Nazi burning book reference was in really poor taste. I get that it might have intended sarcastic but it's honestly really hard to tell.
Uncle Terry didnt always have the midas touch But he's STILL one of 'the' formative who writers, so I'm fine with his weirder works being lovingly joked about for the time being
Honestly! What's up with dropping the F-Bomb? Do you actually think that is appropriate in the context of Doctor Who? You could have said instead, "Does the Brigadier have any romantic encounters?" and your audience would understand.
I don't get why you keep nagging the audience about canon of the show when all the things that "break" said canon are not the show, but books and comics which aren't a part of the Doctor Who TV canon. Like I feel like all these videos are just you nagging at all the DW fans who hate the timeless child because it breaks the canon. Canon isn't pointless. It's the understanding the viewer has with the show that has continuity between stories. If the show establishes a continuity between stories, then any break in that continuity is a breakdown of the trust the audience has in the show. They'll go, if this doesn't matter, then why does anything matter in the show? If there's no continuity between stories, then what makes this show any different than an episode of cowboy bebop, where each episode's event's don't matter and they just do an adventure.
This conversation is so dull The TV show alone contradicts itself constantly. Canon is arbitrary and a bizarre fixture of a way to experience storytelling. If those breaches such as the UNIT dating issue, the Morbius heads or the Doctor's age don't suddenly ruin the show for you, then the same applies to books and audios and comics I know the supposed authority of the TV show, I didn't miss the memo in my first year of fandom, but it's nonsense. You wanna focus on who owns the legal license more than the quality of the story? The only reason to try discount media like the books or comics is because you think they're less valid than any other type of story. At that point, you have to reconsider what canon's imaginary rules are over you if it's invalidating pieces of media designed for your own enjoyment. It all happened. None of it happened. Stories are stories and the only value they have are what you ascribe them.
Honestly there is no other character with a better chance to beat the shit out of Hades than the Brig.
*It's my headcanon that the Veil was so determined to find the Doctor so it could hear the end of his story.*
And he never made it to punchline :,(
Yes, "punchline" was an intentional pun.
"But when Harriet Jones does it..."
THANK YOU!
First ranking the Doctors by "size" and now obsessing on Daddy Brigs sex-life... yeah, The lack of 'Action' during lockdown is starting to get to ye, ain't it Davis?
I doubt he's alone in that...
he does have a daughter so he must have managed at least once, why are we so surprised
@@julieeverett7442... I have a daughter!?!?!?
We actually met Doris in Battlefield!
You forgot to mention how the Brigadier survived into 2050s. He was rejuvenated at Bernice Summerfield and Jason Kane’s wedding in 2010. Lived in the realm of Avalon after Doris died in 2012 and only returned to Earth in 2032 with a new wife. Or in the mentioned story, he and Doris met the Doctor in 2017. Don’t even get started on his encounters with the 6th Doctor
He did mention that he lived all the way to the 2050s according to some sources tho
Brigadier meets 2nd Doctor in the1968 serial The Web of Fear of Classical Doctor Who
These books... it's always the books. Should I actually read Deadly Reunion?
NO!
But do read The Scales of Injustice and Harvest of Time. They're good. Though Harvest nearly ruins the Master.
I'd give you more recommendations, but I've only read five Doctor Who books so far and only two of them are genuinely good. Two of them (The Eye of the Giant and The Devil Goblins from Neptune) are supremely average, and Deadly Reunion is bad.
@Najawin What's that one's deal?
@Najawin Interesting, I'll add it to the pile of things I should watch/read/listen to
I did not need to know that first fact, but know I can't un-know it
Can’t tell if me bringing up the Veil is tragic in another comment section is what caused him to include it, or if he found that out on his own
Starting to think I've been watching Doctor Who all wrong.
- I never minded the CyberBrig
- I've never been furious about Hell Bent, or Series 9 in general for that matter (it's actually a great series)
I could go on but the rest aren't really relevant.
Also the Brig is a power top
into it
With you both. There’s no option but to give him what he wants.
Because you want to, obviously.
I wasn't furious, more '...is that it?' But Clara being immortal sparked a fanfic idea where she teams up with Delgado's Master and a robot bounty hunter on a Tarantino-esque adventure. One day I'll write that. So Hell Bent will have done some good then? Or possibly immeasurable evil, hard to tell...
Honestly, this series is currently my favorite thing on the internet!
tiddies?
I've been thinking the same thing about "Hell Bent", my head cannon is swimming.
You could do a whole Broke Canon based on the Kingmaker with all the bizarre things it does.
He's the brigadier. He can do anything.
The doctor saying he dosent believe in ghosts or dragons is like ben 10 saying he dosent believe in aliens! .. OH WAIT!
8:54 Wasn't expecting a Monster Hunter reference in Broke Canon! For those who don't know, the depicted water dragon is Guanzorumu, from Monster Hunter Frontier. It is indeed a water dragon.
Thank you DAVIS! Lol.
Anyone else remember when Rose called the Doctor Gay? Anyone?
This is Doctor Who, nothing will ever make sense.
I feel hell bent is an underappreciated masterpiece. it completely avoids the boring ass gallifrey homecoming story and instead concludes the thematic arcs and character arcs that have been developing throughout s9 by telling the far more interesting and compelling story of a companion finally becoming a true equal to the doctor. also subverting the classic rtd arc word trope by making the hybrid the doctor and clara's toxic and destructive relationship instead of some embarrassing cgi monster is chefs kiss material
You find the Doctor becoming a tyrant of Gallifrey boring and Clara-drama interesting?
i love both the doctor becoming a tyrant and the clara drama, and they’re both one in the same story as the doctor broke all his rules because he wanted to save his soulmate. I don’t think I was clear but what I find completely boring and dull is a gallifrey episode that explores the lore and mythology (basically the timeless children and we all know how that turned out). maybe im in the minority but i don’t think gallifrey and its lore is that interesting, so having an entire episode dedicated to a mythical creature called the hybrid from some random prophecy would be boring af and would feel out of a place from such a character arc driven series
@@nightowl8477 yes!!!!!
In 2015 I didn't. In 2020, after seeing the concept played out in earnest by stories like The Timeless Children and Spyfall, I absolutely do. They have absolutely vindicated stories that have subverted those types of lore-heavy stories in retrospect.
@@krosisen This of course, its the best answer you'll find.
@@krosisen - lore can be boring when you get too stuck into it, yeah. But the Doctor vs. the Time Lords has never reached its potential, and I could have had a whole series of it (if we had the budget.) You can see why I'm pissed we only got 20 minutes.
The lockdown corrected your opinion about Hell Bent? Joy!
Its still clunky. But it's also a masterpiece of character work. An absolute success of an arc in terms of characterisation.
@@SamyulDavis I probably would have liked it better if Clara had returned to her death immediately
@@Ben-vf5gk I go back and forth on it for sure.
@@SamyulDavis For me, her not going back immediately ruins it because if there is time fallout because of this she looks just as reckless as the Doctor by not going back straight away. If there isn't and she can come back at any time then the whole conflict is pointless. 12 looks really silly for shooting the General now if the solution was that simple.
Yes, there was no time-related consequences for 10 in Waters of Mars, but that was framed around 10's arrogance, and there were consequences for that, Adelaide killed herself.
@@Ben-vf5gk To be fair, 12 comes to his senses just in the nick of time, and that's only because the actual conscience voice of Clara (not the voice of Clara in his head) that brings him back to the brink. I completely empathise with the perspective of the one closest to you, setting you straight.
The 12th Doctor DOES look silly for shooting the general. He looks evil and unhinged, in fact. But that's also kinda the point. And he does face ramifications for it. If he had just left Clara's memory as Me described it "fleeting and beautiful", he would've remembered her as she was. That's the price he pays. It's not quite 'bane of Gallifrey', sure. But that's not really what the story was about. The Doctor is a demigod by the time of Heaven Sent, and the only consequences he deserves at this point are his personally inflicted and intimate ones.
A major part of 12 not killing himself is being reunited and completed with the memory of Clara IMO. Hope this adds to your vision of the series, rather than takes away. I also struggled with Hell Bent for years, and dislike a lot of Moffat material despite seeing the intention in it (Good Man Goes to War, Wedding of River Song etc)
Regarding the dragon thing, it reminds me of how the Tenth Doctor was skeptical of the devil when meeting the Beast in The Satan Pit, and 13 said she didn't believe in the devil, despite the Doctor meeting numerous beings who are devil-like or claim to be the devil throughout multiple incarnations previously. Especially after 10's encounter, it's a little weird to be in such denial, but then again 10 himself was in denial. I can understand not wanting to believe in the devil, but what reason is there to deny dragons, since that has no religious implications?
4:36 the authentic Hell Bent experience (at this point I’m firmly in the “It’s actually a masterpiece” stage)
........I liked Brigadeer coming back one last time to protect his daughter and old friend, even if it was as a Cyberman.
Next episode the 2nd Doctor sung springtime for Hitler
Christ, probably
Nice Mawdryn Undead music at 01:00
My head cannon is Cyber Brig survived the explosion and was rejuvenated to look like how he was in the 70s.
I didn't know the twelfth doctor was Welsh Indian? Hmmm 😁
I think the Doctor could say goodbye to the Brigadier without acknowledging this will be the last time he will see him, even though they both know
I think 13 would've popped by to say goodbye, right at the last moment.
4:27 he was still pissed in the next story tbf.
Like 3 minutes!
@@SamyulDavis - for Classic Who standards, that's like a series arc.
The Doctor doesn't believe in dragons, because he plans to kill them all as well /s
stekenxu or he’s already wiped them all out and is getting his tenses muddled
Well he had a daughter.
Kate Lethbridge-Stewart? First appeared in Series 7's Power of Three, last appeared (on television) Series 9's Zygon Invasion two parter.
She actually first appeared in a home video release by Reeltime Pictures from 1995
@@eli_berdugo04 I was shocked by this strange Moffat adherence to canon. Love that like all showrunners and creators, Moffat used the supposedly 'non-canon' with the 'canon.' It's allllll arbitrary. Ideas are sitting these to be picked and plucked.
"Nobody liked that twist" i never knew loving it was an unpopular opinion and now i feel sad ;((
Nothing to feel sad about, more power to ya
The cyberman brigadier infuriates me
Davis buddy, you ok?
These videos have now gotten me into the bad habit of buying used Doctor Who books online...So in other words thanks😂
Do You Have Recommendations?
Mine Are Engines Of War, Day Of The Doctor, Only Human And Scratchman.
@@millievariants Touched by an Angel is really good
ReUpload pog
I think after reading tardis wiki or hearing about the things on there we're all tragic figures
To be fair i don’t think the modern show runners believe in sea devils either
Wouldn't call Hell Bent a masterpiece myself. It doesn't know what it wants to be - *Doctor, Tyrant of Gallifrey,* or *Doctor, Lovesick for Clara.*
Steven could have done either story masterfully but together...we just don't get enough time with either. Maybe it should have been a three-parter. Or four-parter if you include Face the Raven.
I've rewritten Hell Bent without Clara, and it just flows so much better. I barely even added in anything new, too.
Plus, Face the Raven was just a better episode for Clara to die in. She didn't *need* to come back, and the thematics aren't good enough to justify it. Sorry not sorry, bro.
Sure it does. Its the end of the Clara arc, pretending to mirror a Gallifrey homecoming epic as a subversion for what every Who finale since the revival has returned to: character resolution
There is no hell bent without clara, it doesnt exist. You've just written The Timeless Children!
@@SamyulDavis - personally, I was satisfied with Clara's resolution in Face the Raven - with Heaven Sent almost acting as a coda to her arc. I think Clara being an adrenaline junkie trying to be the Doctor was explored at it's best in Face the Raven itself, and unearthing that supposedly finished arc in Hell Bent just feels gratuitous.
The Timeless Children was just exposition dumping lore changes. I'd have 12 embody the Time Lord Victorious. For all the Doctor tells us about how dangerous he can be, we rarely see the full extent. Heaven Sent would have been the calm before the storm, and Hell Bent would have shown us Tyrant Twelve.
Maybe my need to see more Rassilon vs. Twelve is superficial, but I think it would have worked better for most.
@@SamyulDavis - in my rewrite, Twelve acknowledges how important Clara was to his identity (The Name of the Doctor, the 50th, Listen, etc.) and - with her gone - must rediscover who he is. It would have been a nice (somewhere mocking) acknowledgment of those who called Series 8 and 9 'The Clara Show', and would actually make the Doctor's pursuel of the Hybrid make more sense. I mean, we're on Gallifrey! Use that setting to your thematic advantage, and embed some themes of identity. The Hell Bent Steven wrote could have been set anywhere, really.
@@nightowl8477 Every bit of payoff that S9 set up requires Clara in person
The fact that Clara's real reaction to his pain is completely different to how 12 pictured it in his TARDIS ass mind palace. 12 isn't reasonable enough to be given agency or the reigns of this story. Id even go as far to say it ends up as more of a Clara story than a Doctor one. Clara taking control of her own fate is also a purpose of the story.
Hahahah tho there was no dragon fighting in “only human” Novel,,, I wish there was
We sure? I'm pretty sure there's a throwaway line.
DAVIS AAA I remember, he said that he slew Polish mythological dragon, I forgot it was said there sorry! Btw it stirs things so much more cuz that dragon was a part of the myth?¿ some supernatural shit going on here lol
@@dioksazin Right? I love throwaway lines that cause existential breakdowns for the characters. It was Krakow, wasnt it?
DAVIS yup Kraków! Funny, I picked the novel bc I’m myself polish and heard this legend 18378384 times but overtime I forgot it was actually in the book hahah
@@dioksazin gareth roberts is a cultured boy
1:31 - I'm sorry but that Nazi burning book reference was in really poor taste. I get that it might have intended sarcastic but it's honestly really hard to tell.
Sorry man, some of my closest friends are books
.... I liked cyber-brigadier...
I have read Deadly Reunion. It's... not a good book.
Uncle Terry didnt always have the midas touch
But he's STILL one of 'the' formative who writers, so I'm fine with his weirder works being lovingly joked about for the time being
DAVIS I mean it’s not weird it’s just poorly thought out.
Eveyone knows Heaven Sent is a Masterpiece what are you talking about?
Hell Bent is the episode after Heaven Sent.
Honestly! What's up with dropping the F-Bomb? Do you actually think that is appropriate in the context of Doctor Who? You could have said instead, "Does the Brigadier have any romantic encounters?" and your audience would understand.
"But do the brig be nasty tho"
Bro, 99th comment, but I gotta dislike this! The Brigadier f*****g? Yes, the truth is too much!
Great vid but god damn that Scottish accent hurt to listen to.
I don't get why you keep nagging the audience about canon of the show when all the things that "break" said canon are not the show, but books and comics which aren't a part of the Doctor Who TV canon. Like I feel like all these videos are just you nagging at all the DW fans who hate the timeless child because it breaks the canon. Canon isn't pointless. It's the understanding the viewer has with the show that has continuity between stories. If the show establishes a continuity between stories, then any break in that continuity is a breakdown of the trust the audience has in the show. They'll go, if this doesn't matter, then why does anything matter in the show? If there's no continuity between stories, then what makes this show any different than an episode of cowboy bebop, where each episode's event's don't matter and they just do an adventure.
This conversation is so dull
The TV show alone contradicts itself constantly. Canon is arbitrary and a bizarre fixture of a way to experience storytelling. If those breaches such as the UNIT dating issue, the Morbius heads or the Doctor's age don't suddenly ruin the show for you, then the same applies to books and audios and comics
I know the supposed authority of the TV show, I didn't miss the memo in my first year of fandom, but it's nonsense. You wanna focus on who owns the legal license more than the quality of the story? The only reason to try discount media like the books or comics is because you think they're less valid than any other type of story.
At that point, you have to reconsider what canon's imaginary rules are over you if it's invalidating pieces of media designed for your own enjoyment. It all happened. None of it happened. Stories are stories and the only value they have are what you ascribe them.
Erm