I just feel they could make the graphics bit more better ....comparing to age 2 I just feel this became more cartoonish...age 2 had bit more realism and I think they need to go for that sweet spot..
People are so stupid.. addressing the wrong things. Its so obvious the immersion is lost just seeing how the units are disproportional to the buildings.
ofc you idiot, because its part of balancing and realistic. Its like they shoot from the walls with their muskets and canons like they did in that century from above the fortifications and fortresses. walls would be useless if they couldnt shoot through it. And In AoE 2 units and siege were already able to shoot over walls, so whats your point?!?
Relic is great at making rts games but cant stop thinking of when people saw the first game play trailer of dow3 and now aoe4. Its the same argument and its making me worried
Age of Empires 2 has been such a success because the graphics was realistic and good from the get go, it was so good that it remains beautiful, rustic and realistic even to this day. DE just improved on that and in doing so increased the longevity of the games graphics. It is gritty, dusty, dirty , bloody, gorey and realistic. I love it, Cities in DE2 look like actual medieval cities and I love it! I even created a mod that gave each civ historically accurate unit skins using Civ 3 sprites and it looks amazing!! Even with hundreds of differing units ,with complex historical skins, I have absolutely no problem identifying any unit. Detailed realism is what we crave! WIth the advanced technology of today , I expect age IV to be breathtaking and realistic. AoE IV from the get go has a certain style that is not focused on historical realism nor rustic beauty but instead focuses on ease of identification in the hopes that it will make the game easier for mobile game playing 6 year olds to get into and play. Tiny cretins whom have wealthy parents love cartoon trash like fortnight , and in attempting to appease that market, the devs hope to cash in and achieve vast amounts of sales to said 6year olds. I for one despise this decision and will not be buying this game. During the reveal trailer there was one image that didn't look like a mobile game , one image that I thought: wow! that looks rustic and so good!...and when I paused the video, I saw that it was a short clip from DE2 XD At one point you see a Cathedral (Not a basilica or a church ,a cathedral) in the city and the cathedral looks like it can hardly fit 5 people inside. I really just hope they make the graphics more realistic, I can't stand the cartoon graphics, I won't be buying the game if the graphics don't become better. Rather give me more DE content any day.
completely agree. I hope they will listen to the criticism, but my expectation and prediction is that this game will (a) competely flop, (b) not give rise to any serious and competitive play, and/or (c) have a fan base that is totally cut off from, say, the AoE 2 fan base,
Exactly, they are aiming for the mobile market. As A true pc gamer , for a long time , i've played many games. I fear the worst! Its not about making a perfect game anymore for the pc... Those mobile are invested with commercial adds, by to win strategy.... There was a time once....
It is reassuring that they are aware of all of this and working through things and not just sweeping things under the rug in a rush to take our money. I might eat my words though.
But to be honest, he kind of did sweep everyone's criticisms under the rug in the podcast (I've only watched the clips shown in this video though, so it might not be representative). He says art is subjective and that visibility and colourfulness are key to him. There was a rigidness there, which at times can be admirable, but on the other hand it sounds stubborn and as if he isn't listening to valid criticism.
@@sanethoughtspreader I thought so as well, he gave off an impression that "we know what we are doing so we won't change anything until we are forced to"
@@Milidious Which is a dangerous attitude when it comes to designing something. Obviously pandering to every whim of a mass of people can make a terrible game, but so can ignoring valid criticism. I hope they take care to have a lot of feedback and listen to it. (Like Diablo 2 resurrected seems to be doing well on.)
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me
Hearing the people working on the game explaining their choices and also taking note of the critiscism by the communty gives me good faith that this will be an amazing game!
@@thehandleisuseless yeah i heard it also. They will do that because of the readability of the game. They will implement a feature in the settings where u can ajust the brightness of the colours to give it a darker look. Still far away from realism but it is something. Gameplay for me is way more important than grapichs in a rts. If relic is more confident to deliver with this art style. It is fine by me. But i am wondering. Which kind of art style did you hope for? Compared to which game? Cheerio Ivar
@@thehandleisuseless To be fair to them, AoE2 and 3 had a lot of goofy design choices. The series was never meant to be super hardcore and grounded. Besides, actual Medieval colors were quite vivid, so bright colors isn't exactly wrong - don't buy into the Hollywood portrayal of everything as gray and depressing.
@@thehandleisuseless Because thats AOE. All the previous parts of the franchise were no dark and gritty or even realistic presentations of the history. They were bright and colorful. Bruce Shelly himself said when he made AOE1 (and the same goes for AOE2) that one of the central rules of developing the game was "The Sun always shines in Age of Empires." Because he, as he explained, wanted a friendly and welcoming represantation of the history. One were everyone likes to go and have fun.
It looks so trash, the colorscheme looks like fucking dragonvale. Would be so much cooler with muddy gloomy battles. Instead we get a mobile game. It wouldnt even surprise me if they include battlepasses to get skins for your elephant. Disgrace to the people waiting 20 years for a follow up.
Personally I would prefer to look as good as possible with option to scale that down, that way it could run smoothly today and still look good in 5-10 years when hardware will be much better to run it at max easily.
@@shykorustotora Not broken, just hardware intensive with option to to take it down, and if engine is decent it is not hard to do, dynamically scale down textures and number of polygons on models, only disadvantage you will get is large game files. Also I am talking about todays average PC and average PC in 5 years, so high end will run it just fine today, does not have to be top high end either.
It's crazy how everyone is mixing resource consumption with art direction, it doesn't need to eat your pc to look better and less cartoon, texture sizes can be the same. The shaders & lightning themselves define the whole feeling of the game.
I'm confused. Scaling reverted? The developer seemed pretty adamant that they favored 'readability' instead. No mention at all about reverting scaling, quite the opposite.
Age of Empires 2 is probably my favorite game ever but in 2021, Age of Empires 4 is a pathetic attempt with games like for example Manor Lords on the horizon.
Yepp hell that is an indie game but even looks more promising than AoE IV. If tha series cannot visually evolve then the franchise will sooner or later die. And we were not even comparing it to Anno 1800 or Total War Troy for example.
The thing I had with the graphics is that the units look like they are superimposed onto the game. But then I noticed it looks way better when units are standing in the taller grass. So I would say it might actually be the smoothness of the ground in a lot of the shots that is keeping it a bit down. We'll see when the game approaches launch or when the betas come out to see how the art direction turns out. For me it is like with every game nowadays, I am in as soon as the game is out and I can make an actual opinion about they game. Days of pre-orders are over.
Arrows look a bit weird yeah, but other things don't really bother me. Maybe I am just different, but I play RTS games like it is chess. I play chess for the fun that lies in chess itself rather that the aesthetics of the chess pieces and the board. Chess piece made of gold and silver are nice add-ons, but It's not the reason why I am playing. Same goes for the core gameplay and graphics, at least for me.
Agreed. You don't play the AoE series to marvel at the graphics or see movie-like battles. There are other games available if you want to do that. In AoE there are so many aspects of macro decision making and unit micro that you don't have the time to sit around at full zoom and watch things happen.
Sure, but city building is a big part of the fun for me and a lot of other people. If the city looks like crap I don't really have an incentive to defend it. Also, some people purchase very beautiful chess sets for the aesthetics. If the game comes out looking like it does in the trailer with bad scaling and cartoon graphics I'm not buying. I'm sure people can criticize my view but a lot of people share it with me.
I have a worry that the maps are going to be way too small, hope they don't end up like the ones in Simcity 5, wherein the engine was great but due to the small map sizes the scalability & long playability was hampered.
if you start making everything big think how much space that will take on your screen, also bigger could mean a need for better textures so it doesn't look bad, which also could make the game more demanding. Also units getting hidden behind buildings become more of a issue. there's a ton of small reasons why super big scale is often avoided in rts games.
@@ashesofaranea Empire Earth managed to scale everything properly in 2001. There was also a hotkey to control building opacity to where if you had units behind the building it would appear transparent.
Well if I check Anno 1800 or Total War Troyes, after that go back and check Age of Empires IV I cannot unsee the inferior graphics of AoE IV anymore... :(
@@Hopkins955 Those are completely different styles of game, though. Anno is more of a city builder, and Total War has always been more focused on cinematic battles. Also neither of those 2 series of games are designed to be competitive multiplayer games, while that is a big component of the Age series. AoE is more focused on resource management, multitasking, unit micro, positioning and map control. It's pointless to expend too much working time on graphics because the player doesn't have time to sit around at full zoom and watch things happening; they have to constantly make decisions, give unit commands and produce units. Also a cleaner, easy-to-read graphics style is useful because you need to be able to get information and recognize units at a glance as you multitask.
@@axoltl1 Maybe it is just me but I am sometimes just sitting and observing my village, zooming in and watch how my workers are are working or building...
@@Hopkins955 In which game, aoe2? Because graphics there are certainly not the pinnacle of realism in gaming. Like people are saying, for a competitive RTS readability is much more important than being pretty, so that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to a certain point, personally. I mean, I play a lot of the Total War games every now and then, but most of the time I struggle a lot to actually identify and differentiate units, and just get a good grasp of whatever is going on in a battle. Don't get me wrong, I still love those games, but it's a different kind of enjoyment, and I certainly hope not all RTSes follow this trend that has been going on in some other genres, of striving to make each game the graphics card benchmark of the moment and more realistic and grittier than the last, many times at the expense of gameplay qualities.
People generally have a meltdown about art-style with any 3d strategy game. Civ 6 obviously, but it also happened to Civ 5 and Civ 4 back in the day for those that can remember. Runup to CK3 was also plagued with intense art-style discussions. So far the reaction we have seen for AoE4 is nothing but business as usual.
The game need blood options, age always had blood. Who played as child is now adult, we want BLOOD! (nvm if it's as a dlc for some ratio audience problem like esrb or pegi).
About scale, those people should compare the sizes of land units and some ships and buildings in the other AoE games and think on the number of people for each house.
It's not just the current aoe2 community it's aiming for, it's aiming for everyone who grew up with age of.empires and the aesthetics were definitley a draw that stopped people coming back (expecting big changes in the next)
I have this sickening feeling.... That we finally got Age 2 in a great place, with a decent community and regular updates and such. And when age 4 comes out its definitely gonna take some players with it, and if its fun, great we can adopt it. But if it sucks like age 3, it could end up just chernobyling the franchise.... The player base will be permanently split and the game will die from there.
I don’t think Age 2 is ever going to lose it’s player base. Age 4 isn’t out yet, but I am pretty certain this is in no way going to compete with or come close to age 2. Just like none of the other ages split fans away from 2, this one won’t either. This game honestly looks like it’s making all the same mistakes 3 did, but with even worse gameplay mechanics. I am not getting my hopes up.
5:18 "...making sure everyone....knows what's going on in the battle..." sounds like spectating is going to be a focus which is probably an important aspect for building the game's popularity. If people who don't really play the game can tell what's happening, it makes for a better esport as it's more accessible to the untrained eye.
Indeed. Having to micro manage is nice, but the pace of the game should also be design to give the players enough little breaks to witness the fights and graphics. Otherwise it's just too hectic.
@@MsabResearch Yes, I think that's the biggest hurdle for RTS games to overcome to become more popular. I think that's why MOBA's were able to become so much so. A great RTS will always have micro management, but too much puts off a lot of people.
@@falaflani4831 I love AOE2 but if you're going to judge it by appearance then you've got to admit that even the defenitive edition looks like nothing special, it is only when you play the game, know the mechanics and see the pros push it to its edgd that you can truly judge a game
@@cylvonkoursfelt4742 to me looks like AOE3 with added features from Stronghold and Total War but somehow looks worse than those 2 games. But I have to admit gameplay is king. If they somehow manage to make base building fun like in aoe2, 1 and Stronghold and fun, strategic combat like in aoe2 (No way the combat can be like total war. That's like a different genre. Even the devs of Total War seem to not know how to make a Total War game since Shogun 2) and navy combat with more realistic scaling than the idiotic aoe2 balance where a single knight can take down a war galley on the beach and balance it out by making ships cheap to produce (reason I never play water maps. Just make war ships powerful like how they should be and adjust resources accordingly) it WILL be a hit
Honestly, the colorful bit is actually historically accurate in medieval era. You should see how colorful Burgundians armors are. What disappoint me is the cartoony style of it. It seriously looks like a mobile game now.
The problem is some, not all, of the models use the player colour too much and are a big blob of a single homogeneous colour. It appears wherever your player colour appears on the model there is a lack of other details, some of the units/buildings look like they've been painted in plastic. AoE 1 & 2 were very colourful games but AoE 2 im particular was great at making that colour look like a part of the world.
I hate the "Looks like a mobile game" nonsense. Any artstyle that is not realistic is now just trying to be a mobile game? Let alone the fact that the artstyle existed in PC games and consoles long before mobile games existed looking at you Team Fortress 2. You are not obligated to like an artstyle, but stop being silly by calling it a mobile game. It is genuinely annoying.
Art is subjective only when it's intended to be consumed entirely by it's own merits. After is not subjective when you have teams working together to create a game that is not supposed to make you think. Gee, this pattern here is reminiscent of the Delhi sultanate which is in the wrong time period. Art is subjective when it's the focus.
I agree, but some things are objectively beautiful or ugly. Pretty much everyone who sees St. Paul's Cathedral would agree it's a beautiful building, whereas a Brutalist concrete structure is almost always atrocious. Good art inspires emotion, and a great artist controls which emotions.
I finally broke down and bought a gaming PC last year just for this game and the DE, so i'm already in. This is promising they're listening to the community. 👌🏼Its gonna be a fantastic game, like everyones favorite AOE 2 but enough will be different that it won't be just a graphical upgrade. So glad RTS is back, i missed playing these games as a kid back in 98'
@@shykorustotora For me it was the new cover system they implemented which made cover pointless, the power scaling between elite and standard units being way off balance. I actually think there werent enough abilities! In Dow2 every unit had at least one if not multiple abilities and weapon upgrades whereas dow3 its one ability and no funky wargear. I thought the art was good enough (better looking than aoe4 which is perhaps a different problem) but in a medium or larger battle the screen was an absolute mess and you cant tell whats going on. A gorgeous mess, but a mess. The objective style gameplay with the towers and generators that was the only type of map at launch was just plain awful. It totally eliminated rushing mechanics from the game. Oh, and they made lascannons lame which is the greatest crime of all. The ork scrap mechanic was pretty cool though. And some amazing map design. But theres alot of valid reasons why dow3 went down to 500 players after a couple weeks.
He's on the right track tho, they are prioritizing playability and substance over stylitics. Look what they've done to warcraft III reforged, they ruined it with the over realistic, gritty graphics because no one understands wtf is going on in the battles, so everyone in the comunity got back to the cartoony graphics
After waiting so long I do expect graphics significantly better than AOE3DE. I'm not too woried since the game is still in alpha but those explosions in 7:29 look hideous. I'm sure they can make a good looking game that runs on a mid-range PC.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even notice that in the game. It was a very close-up shot. In the game you'll see it from a much bigger distance and you'll also be paying attention to other stuff.
In RTS games I still think 2D graphic is better then 3D. I don't know if 3D have some other bonuses than different angle of camera but 2D is more friendly to my CPU and you can have bigger maps and more units.
I'm curious how many reasons there are other than fashion that RTS have all gone 3D. Hades proved that pre rendered sprites can still make some of the best looking graphics in the world. Brigador as well, I'd love to see an RTS in that style.
"Art is subjective" worries me. Age of Empires 3 DE looks better than this. I mean, it does look like a mobile game. Does that mean I won't play it, or that it's automatically bad? No, but its off-putting, enough that it concerns me for the game as a whole. I'll wait until there's a consensus before buying.
because xbox era is a podcast that is not a afiliated with xbox in any way it just xbox fans doing a podcast about xbox, showing a new trailer in a podcast like that is impossible lmao + it was an interview not a event of anything, is clear that xbox is only showing gameplay and that type of thing in events
Problem with new UI is to me, it looks like, it comes from Starcraft. Empire games have wooden/stone textured UIs. Even more "technological" Aoe3 has that wood/old feeling.
What you need to make an engaging game is thrilling animations and gameplay. You don't need high end graphics, just something that works and has an appealing artstyle.
Yeah, but I think most people saying the graphics suck are including the artstyle in that statement. The artstyle just looks so different from what a lot of age fans wanted.
Seems like most fans want realism in terms of graphics, physics, combat and scaling.. How are the people who made company of heroes not getting it, they nailed all those checkboxes off 15 years ago..
Yeah, either there is a tyrant lead dev at Relic who prefers cartoon graphics, or they have a plan to make a mobile version. Because the community never asked for cartoon graphics. I remember when Age Online was laughed off for looking ridiculous.
I am kinda hyped for AoE 4, but i have 3 issues with it: a) It just looks like a modern remake of aoe 2 with better grafics and some new mechanics. b) Trying to combine AoE 2 and 3 into a game while having 2 excelent definitive edition games - I hope that once the AoE 4 comes out, the support and development for Aoe 2 and 3 DE does not end. Both games are recent and are still having massive upgrades, why leave all that for a game with lesser options in civs/mechanics. Also, aoe 2 and 3 have very different type of players, since the first takes way more time than the very fast paced aoe 3. I dont think this will translate to a bigger community in aoe 4. c) The idea of 8 civs + a new 4 Civ DLC per year not only will amount to a fairly expensive game, but also a game with substancially less civs and variety than aoe 2 or 3 (The current civs are Britons, Franks, HRE, Vikings Mongols, Chinese, Indians and Russians.) All these civs are linked through the campagins, but they dont represent the biggest empires in their age, which imho falls short than what it should be.
@@shykorustotora Things like minecraft, roblox, fall guys are all different games than the aoe series; We like to feel the atmosphere of medieval era, early modern era. And shit graphics takes it away, imagine playing battlefield 1 with shit graphics, or shit stuff(why bf5 had so much hate, no one likes cyborg females in ww2) lol.. AoE series has to be serious and has to have realistic graphics, its nor minecraft nor the players have the same mindset as minecraft players.... lmao sry for grammer mistakes tho :P
The arrows were one of my main issues, and I didn't even find it to be that bad. I'm glad they're fixing it, but it wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me anyway. I do think some of the weapons (particularly some lances) look too big and goofy, but hopefully that's addressed as well. As for unit scaling, I don't have a big problem with that: the units in every game have been giants compared to their buildings, that's just how it is: this one may be a bit more extreme, but not by that much, and it sounds like they're fixing it.
The real issue is the frame rate drops in the trailer. Genuinely surprised that all I’ve seen is people complaining about “muh graphics” when the graphics are fine, they’re good enough, I legit don’t care. But if the game suffers from performance issues, that’s a real concern for me.
Someone should have told Adam to stop slapping his table while talking on the podcast lol. I think people are way overreacting to these issues, it's good to make criticism heard, but I've seen so many people going way too far
Based on how he handled other perspectives/opinions/criticisms in the podcast, I'm not entirely sure he would have accepted it. "Some people like no background noise in podcasts, but that's subjective. Our team likes slapping the table and that's just more important to us." ;) Sorry to be so cynical, but he didn't seem to massively respect the opposing opinions he faced in feedback given so I'm sceptical about his ability to take criticism.
relic made a great work with Homeworld Remastered, and they are working in a third entry of the game! relic is a great company for RTS but yeah... DOW3 sucked really bad
So I think the cartoon colors are exactly what the game needs. Very inviting and helpful for unit distinction. Especially when we have team games. But they NEED to improve the unit models a bit. The colors can be out there, but this game needs to be a blatant improvement on unit model quality. It’s been so many years I want to see some units like a total war game. Even is they are slightly cartoony. They can’t have crappy definition.
sorry, but i never understand why cartoony even mattered? the series is always as cartoony as ever even since the first aoe. its just that because the 4th was 3d rendered it suddenly becoming more obvious. for me, i think the scale problem are more important right now. in fact, i'm not sure that they're gonna change the cartoony looking style as it required to rebuilt the asset of the game from 0, which take a long time to do
@@Synsky we just had aoe2de and aoe3, im really okay to wait for game,plenty of content. For aoe4 to have a chance to be huge, it needs to be "clean" and what it is now just too much noise.
CoH was so revolutionary... When I first started the tutorial and order soldiers to shoot I was thinking they will stand in place and shoot. Oh boy... I was so wrong... they split and took nearby cover (AI was amazing in that game - unbelievable for 2006 game)
@@TheOperationHastings Well but both were more of tactical in nature. In Age people expect bigger battles and more economy. But there is no reason to look like mobile game ad
Good news, but I remain sceptical as long as I haven't seen current gameplay. Besides arrows also animations in general are a big problem. Some of them didn't look very modern and sometimes units were clunky. Also some details need to be improved like the terrain. It looks blurry sometimes. Many people also wish a blood/skeleton toggle option in game. At least a gore DLC pack would be good.
I too like the colorful art style, but it's really hard not to hate your braindead argument for it. One of the best parts about Age of Empires is its niche community. You will not find it as easy to communicate with the developers or anybody when it goes mainstream.
Hear this out : AGE OF EMPIRES trademark is good unit design, iconic building design, epic sounds, real terrain, real lightning and real landmarks. Do it
Why is nobody talking about the magic siege weapons moving without operators... like guys its 2021, I know it looks funny in age 2 but looks horrendous and cringy in age of empires 4, pls get those operators on the siege weapon 😪 and I hate how they try to include everyone on aoe 4 when the goal audience is so exclusive, like we want a serious [dont care about scale or colors] but serious realistic looking units, not a mobile game in a PC. People playing fortnite won't put a look in aoe 4... and you should be loyal to the nostalgic audience that play this game since 1998... Ok, Its relic, they did realistic soldiers in CoH and it looks amazing and all vehicles got an operator. I know they are making aoe 4 great , but listen the community, we dont want cartoonish graphics.... we have not been waiting 3 years for a game, it's been 20 years!! Make it worth it, CoH got great graphics, gameplay and campaign. We know aoe 4 can be like that too!!
I still think it will be a huge failure and end of the Relic. Because they still focused to make this game "for everyone" which is bullshit. Rts fans want genuine rts games. Especially fans for a cult game geries like this. 20 years on and people will still be playing aoe 2.
They better not try and make shit for mobile give me a god damned break. The graphics are a little shoddy if you consider these trailers should be rendered in the highest possible settings.... Im okay with scale. The arrow issue does stand out now that youve pointed it out, but if the animations are fast, it will be okay. But the graphics definitely could use some more polygons and shaders.
It doesn’t look the way I hoped. A little too bright and glowing, but the fact that they’ve narrowed down the civs gives me hope maybe they’ll be super different with enough common ground to advance the series but stay true to it
Oh come on! What is with these late 90's graphics? The soldiers, the buildings, the textures on everything, the grass, the snow, the foliage, the walls, the straw roofs of houses, the cranelation-textures on towers...etc. These are pre AoE3 era graphics...in 2021. It seriously has graphics far worse than AoE3's graphics. At least AoE had nice water textures and decent snow and foliage textures. And this guy is sitting there, stubbornly defending the cheap, late 90's graphics and the terrble building size scaling. It's making the game look ridiculous. And he seems satisfied, saying he thinks they got the core of it "and want to work and improve from there". I bet he isn't working on improving this circus of a game. It looks too bright and cartoony. Like Fortnite. If Fortnite was a historic RTS game....that was released in 1998. I'm part of a large number of AoE fans that would like to see AoE develop into a more mature, much more realistic looking AoE game. From a 2021 AoE game we should at least be able to expect: -3D looking, lush green and dried up yellow short and all grass -Thick layers of sparkling white snow. -Detailed, realistic foliage on bushes and trees. -Realistic lighting effects. Light colors, shadows -Reflective surfaces; Water, ice, smooth stones, plant foliage, glass..etc -Realistic fire effects: Flames, muzzle flashes, flying embers, blazing thatched roofs, smouldering wood..etc -Realistic scaling. People should actually fit inside houses. Castles should be huge. I was expecting that an game AoE game being developed in 2021 would have that covered and already be busy adding in new elements like daytime/nighttime cycles & the ability to age up from the middle ages all the way up to the WW1 or even the Vietnam era.
Age 2 is the greatest RTS ever made on so many levels. I don’t know why they don’t just adhere to that blueprint (like Starcraft adheres to theirs). A game with modern tanks, planes, infantry, trenches and barriers for walls, oil fields instead of stone mines, snipers, artillery, jeeps, helicopters, etc. that plays just like Age 2 but with aerial style units kind of like in Starcraft would be so much cooler imo. They could’ve stuck to that Age 1-5 graphic from forever ago too. Mythology and 3 were ok fun but demonstrated why you shouldn’t deviate from what Age 1-2 laid out in terms of core base building and fighting mechanics. I just see a studio missing an opportunity to show us what age is all about in the hopes they will make a unique standout age game. I also don’t agree with recycling an era of history we’ve already seen. The era isn’t why age 2 is amazing. It’s the base building, balance, fighting mechanics, and resource management. Maybe I’ll be wrong, but my hopes are not high.
I'm 100% for accessibility options for people with poor eyesight or something, but I'm not at all for assuming the RTS player base as a whole is mentally handicapped and need to have arrows as big as bolts from roman ballistae to get a grip on what's going on on the battlefield. I don't need my units to be as big as units in Civ games to not lose track. Don't treat people like idiots. Yes, that includes newcomers. Don't keep lowering the bar to accommodate imbeciles. That's not how you build quality products, nor create a healthy player base. People that are not super invested will fall off after completing campaigns, skirmishes and maybe some mp matches. And then dedicated players will be left with a product forged with stupid peo- UGH! I mean 'broad market' in mind. Don't go Dawn of War III path.
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me
For as much as I want and will play this game the graphic style it’s a turn off, I was 12 when I started playing AoE and now in my 30’s this kind of graphics do bother me, it could be I’m old or whatever but it just feels like another mobile game. I know it’s a game and “realistic” it’s just a term but they should’ve kept the graphics close to reality just like AoE2 did.
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me . Age of empire 4 is remake of age of empire 2 with cartoon graphics ???? Dude they should have focused on the civil war era with the union and the confederate and cowboys , kind of like the red dead redemption video game
Animation, textures, explosion effects are nice - for a mobile game. For a PC game that will last at least 10 years, not really. Company of heroes 1 a game that Relic mage in 2006 (but those developers have left relic long long time ago) is much more modern then this. Graphics seems to be somehow pretty only when camera is max zoomed out , and I can not see myself playing AOE in that style
I think it looks great! Rather have good readability and gameplay than insane graphics that clutter the screen. Only thing that bothered me a little was the smoke and explosions from the gunpowder, it was a bit much.
I agree that the graphics of AOE 4 is similar to mobile game graphics but is more detailed and still looks good for me. Its graphics looks more realistic compare to the graphics of Dota 2 or League of Legends. The graphics of AOE 4 looks great for me :)
The units are bigger than the buildings hahaha They really need to fix that. Apart the arrows and scale, a thing that really bothers me is the naval battles. The physics of the ships are awful. And those people that complain about the graphics are stupid people. Some parts of the game are beautiful, like terrain. It was the same stupid argument in AOE online. The game was beautiful, the gameplay that matters.
Not going to lie - I really love the cartoony graphics. Maybe because as an illustrator I suck at realism xD so I am biased in that regard. But hey - I really can't wait for this game to come out!
Presumably they have a lot of work to do on shadows, lighting, reflections, etc which will probably round off the "cartoony" appearance. I didn't really see any reflections and the shadows had a very low draw distance so hopefully all that stuff is improved as it makes a pretty outsized difference
It's kinda hilarious to see how many people think that cartoon graphics equal bad graphics. The game looks mostly stunning. Realistic, no. Beautiful, yes.
@@raffaelsteinmann7296 Games that take a specific art style over realism also look a lot better than "realistic games" in 10 years time. I do think the game appear differently on release though for the aforementioned reasons. If you took shadows and lighting out of any games they would look cartoony so the finished product may look more realistic than the alpha footage anyway
@@shykorustotora Apparently a lot of people do based on the "not realistic enough" crowd. Realism is to a significant degree shadows and lighting (and reflections for that matter). Shadows, lighting and reflection quality is usually the first thing sacrificed for console releases which is where that criticism is coming from. It looks really odd to see shadows disappear at max zoom so I am assuming it is just because it's still being worked. When you play a game on console and then PC draw distance, especially for shadows, is probably the single most jarring thing. Not saying they are intending to do a console release or this is the final state of the game, quite the opposite as confirmed in the video we are commenting on. Even the dev is telling you they are still working on the game so not sure why you think its done and about to be released, when they have only confirmed a sometime-in-fall release window?
@@shykorustotora no you said I wanted them to delay release to implement more shadows. I simply speculated they MAY at some point before release work on them. I don’t think improving draw distances would be this massive project breaking endeavor, but maybe there is so much h spaghetti code it’s impossible. Maybe they won’t make any improvements to the game beyond fixing arrows, I don’t know and neither do you. Congratulations on working in the industry but unless you are working on aoe4 I’m not sure you can do anything other than speculate either. Some games by veteran companies with experienced developers still turn out like dog shit so obviously there are idiosyncratic factors in each video game’s development cycle, as with any project. We are commenting on a video that is discussing speculation about an unreleased game so I don’t think my comment is that radical
I don't like that there are no people behind the cannons or artillery, scale is off for all units and buildings and it looks a bit cartooonish. I like the path finding and movement of units. The hills and countryside. I like the walls and being able to man them.
I don't know, the closer the premiere of AOE4 gets, the less expectation I have for it. Maybe it is because i prefer the style and historical era of EOE3DE. In a way i expected AOE4 to span the entire timeline of its predecessors, from prehistoric to early 20th century, not in the comic style of Empire earth; but in a way of marking times ... I don't know. After all, age4 is the update of the recent AOE2DE.
Yeah another aoe2... sorry did I say aoe2 5.0? I don't support this. They should have go to modern ages like the aoe3 handbook predicted it. This is simply for getting money of those hardcore aoe2 boys. If aoe2 fans wouldn't be dickheads we maybe would have got what has to be done: AoE4 which is in the timeline of wwI wwII cold war and thats it.
@@TerahAsh My favourite game is AoE 2 but I wanted them to recreate the whole combat, level of detail and camera view Total War style and making the battles even bigger. This ain`t it chief...
The mass conversion timed at 7:58 was totally not timed intentionally with what I was saying, lol.
Yeah I 100% believe you :^)
By looking at it looks fine. No complaints here.
Krappa
I just feel they could make the graphics bit more better ....comparing to age 2 I just feel this became more cartoonish...age 2 had bit more realism and I think they need to go for that sweet spot..
@@akashpm5350 a bit more better hahaha now that's specific lmao
The elephants aren't too big, the houses are too small.
People are so stupid.. addressing the wrong things. Its so obvious the immersion is lost just seeing how the units are disproportional to the buildings.
Him talking about the wall makes me laugh because of all the ranged units in Aoe 3 shooting through walls 😂
Empire Earth / Crusader got that one right years ago thou.
@@Phoenix-qv9hg yes
ofc you idiot, because its part of balancing and realistic. Its like they shoot from the walls with their muskets and canons like they did in that century from above the fortifications and fortresses. walls would be useless if they couldnt shoot through it. And In AoE 2 units and siege were already able to shoot over walls, so whats your point?!?
@@OliverdeClisson you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what? Lol
@@OliverdeClisson Yeah, shooting OVER the wall, not THROUGH the wall, that's the difference
Relic is great at making rts games but cant stop thinking of when people saw the first game play trailer of dow3 and now aoe4. Its the same argument and its making me worried
Age of Empires 2 has been such a success because the graphics was realistic and good from the get go, it was so good that it remains beautiful, rustic and realistic even to this day. DE just improved on that and in doing so increased the longevity of the games graphics.
It is gritty, dusty, dirty , bloody, gorey and realistic. I love it, Cities in DE2 look like actual medieval cities and I love it! I even created a mod that gave each civ historically accurate unit skins using Civ 3 sprites and it looks amazing!! Even with hundreds of differing units ,with complex historical skins, I have absolutely no problem identifying any unit. Detailed realism is what we crave!
WIth the advanced technology of today , I expect age IV to be breathtaking and realistic.
AoE IV from the get go has a certain style that is not focused on historical realism nor rustic beauty but instead focuses on ease of identification in the hopes that it will make the game easier for mobile game playing 6 year olds to get into and play. Tiny cretins whom have wealthy parents love cartoon trash like fortnight , and in attempting to appease that market, the devs hope to cash in and achieve vast amounts of sales to said 6year olds.
I for one despise this decision and will not be buying this game.
During the reveal trailer there was one image that didn't look like a mobile game , one image that I thought: wow! that looks rustic and so good!...and when I paused the video, I saw that it was a short clip from DE2 XD
At one point you see a Cathedral (Not a basilica or a church ,a cathedral) in the city and the cathedral looks like it can hardly fit 5 people inside.
I really just hope they make the graphics more realistic, I can't stand the cartoon graphics, I won't be buying the game if the graphics don't become better.
Rather give me more DE content any day.
completely agree. I hope they will listen to the criticism, but my expectation and prediction is that this game will (a) competely flop, (b) not give rise to any serious and competitive play, and/or (c) have a fan base that is totally cut off from, say, the AoE 2 fan base,
Exactly, they are aiming for the mobile market. As A true pc gamer , for a long time , i've played many games. I fear the worst!
Its not about making a perfect game anymore for the pc... Those mobile are invested with commercial adds, by to win strategy.... There was a time once....
It is reassuring that they are aware of all of this and working through things and not just sweeping things under the rug in a rush to take our money. I might eat my words though.
Let's hope everything turns out great
But to be honest, he kind of did sweep everyone's criticisms under the rug in the podcast (I've only watched the clips shown in this video though, so it might not be representative). He says art is subjective and that visibility and colourfulness are key to him. There was a rigidness there, which at times can be admirable, but on the other hand it sounds stubborn and as if he isn't listening to valid criticism.
@@sanethoughtspreader I thought so as well, he gave off an impression that "we know what we are doing so we won't change anything until we are forced to"
@@Milidious Which is a dangerous attitude when it comes to designing something. Obviously pandering to every whim of a mass of people can make a terrible game, but so can ignoring valid criticism. I hope they take care to have a lot of feedback and listen to it. (Like Diablo 2 resurrected seems to be doing well on.)
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me
Hearing the people working on the game explaining their choices and also taking note of the critiscism by the communty gives me good faith that this will be an amazing game!
well, but at the end when he said we will make it colorful and fun and stir away from realism... I mean, why?.... what's the point of it
@@thehandleisuseless yeah i heard it also. They will do that because of the readability of the game. They will implement a feature in the settings where u can ajust the brightness of the colours to give it a darker look. Still far away from realism but it is something. Gameplay for me is way more important than grapichs in a rts. If relic is more confident to deliver with this art style. It is fine by me. But i am wondering. Which kind of art style did you hope for? Compared to which game? Cheerio Ivar
@@Ivaro11 it's not an artistic choice: they purposely went for very low minimum specs requirements.
@@thehandleisuseless To be fair to them, AoE2 and 3 had a lot of goofy design choices. The series was never meant to be super hardcore and grounded. Besides, actual Medieval colors were quite vivid, so bright colors isn't exactly wrong - don't buy into the Hollywood portrayal of everything as gray and depressing.
@@thehandleisuseless Because thats AOE. All the previous parts of the franchise were no dark and gritty or even realistic presentations of the history. They were bright and colorful.
Bruce Shelly himself said when he made AOE1 (and the same goes for AOE2) that one of the central rules of developing the game was "The Sun always shines in Age of Empires."
Because he, as he explained, wanted a friendly and welcoming represantation of the history. One were everyone likes to go and have fun.
It looks so trash, the colorscheme looks like fucking dragonvale. Would be so much cooler with muddy gloomy battles. Instead we get a mobile game. It wouldnt even surprise me if they include battlepasses to get skins for your elephant. Disgrace to the people waiting 20 years for a follow up.
No where near the graphics upgrade of a 15 year old game, what a bummer.
I want the game to run smoothly before looking more realistic
Personally I would prefer to look as good as possible with option to scale that down, that way it could run smoothly today and still look good in 5-10 years when hardware will be much better to run it at max easily.
@@shykorustotora Not broken, just hardware intensive with option to to take it down, and if engine is decent it is not hard to do, dynamically scale down textures and number of polygons on models, only disadvantage you will get is large game files.
Also I am talking about todays average PC and average PC in 5 years, so high end will run it just fine today, does not have to be top high end either.
@@shykorustotora Uhmm have you heard of Wither 3 for instance? Try run that on max settings on average pc on day of release and get more than 5 fps.
@@belisarian6429 well its natural you were born in 2012 for all we care dude
It's crazy how everyone is mixing resource consumption with art direction, it doesn't need to eat your pc to look better and less cartoon, texture sizes can be the same. The shaders & lightning themselves define the whole feeling of the game.
I'm confused. Scaling reverted? The developer seemed pretty adamant that they favored 'readability' instead. No mention at all about reverting scaling, quite the opposite.
Age of Empires 2 is probably my favorite game ever but in 2021, Age of Empires 4 is a pathetic attempt with games like for example Manor Lords on the horizon.
Yepp hell that is an indie game but even looks more promising than AoE IV. If tha series cannot visually evolve then the franchise will sooner or later die. And we were not even comparing it to Anno 1800 or Total War Troy for example.
The thing I had with the graphics is that the units look like they are superimposed onto the game. But then I noticed it looks way better when units are standing in the taller grass. So I would say it might actually be the smoothness of the ground in a lot of the shots that is keeping it a bit down. We'll see when the game approaches launch or when the betas come out to see how the art direction turns out.
For me it is like with every game nowadays, I am in as soon as the game is out and I can make an actual opinion about they game. Days of pre-orders are over.
I agree, the ground kind of just looks painted right now.
Arrows look a bit weird yeah, but other things don't really bother me. Maybe I am just different, but I play RTS games like it is chess. I play chess for the fun that lies in chess itself rather that the aesthetics of the chess pieces and the board. Chess piece made of gold and silver are nice add-ons, but It's not the reason why I am playing. Same goes for the core gameplay and graphics, at least for me.
Agreed. You don't play the AoE series to marvel at the graphics or see movie-like battles. There are other games available if you want to do that. In AoE there are so many aspects of macro decision making and unit micro that you don't have the time to sit around at full zoom and watch things happen.
well said
Sure, but city building is a big part of the fun for me and a lot of other people. If the city looks like crap I don't really have an incentive to defend it. Also, some people purchase very beautiful chess sets for the aesthetics.
If the game comes out looking like it does in the trailer with bad scaling and cartoon graphics I'm not buying. I'm sure people can criticize my view but a lot of people share it with me.
@@perfectwhine742 I totally respect your idea. My comment was just stating my very personal opinion.
I have a worry that the maps are going to be way too small, hope they don't end up like the ones in Simcity 5, wherein the engine was great but due to the small map sizes the scalability & long playability was hampered.
You can change the size of the maps in the current games, I'm sure you can do the same in this
@@knights162 well hopefully, as a lot of games nowadays sacrifice map sizes for complex game plays which in turn hampers the game repayability.
The map they showed was a 1 v 1 map. Pretty big for just a 1 v 1
Cartoony graphics and effects are a real turn off for me, I'm sad it was addressed as only being subjective. I don't mind it being colorful.
Agreed. Big shame. 15 yrs I think we all hoped for a big jump from aoe3.
how will you say it is caroony when you are moving 50 units in 5 sec and changing screens every 1-2 sec? when you zoom out it looks georgeous.
So why not just scale towers and castles higher?
if you start making everything big think how much space that will take on your screen, also bigger could mean a need for better textures so it doesn't look bad, which also could make the game more demanding. Also units getting hidden behind buildings become more of a issue. there's a ton of small reasons why super big scale is often avoided in rts games.
@@ashesofaranea Empire Earth managed to scale everything properly in 2001. There was also a hotkey to control building opacity to where if you had units behind the building it would appear transparent.
I was really hoping for realistic graphics like Company of Heroes tbh. starcraft 2 might even look better and that came out in 2010
When I saw the trailer, the only thing I complained about is the arrows. The arrows seemed weird to me haha
They do, they stick around a bit too long after they hit, they are oddly large and their arcs feel a bit weird. I hope that they look better now!
They look like guided missile arrow
I dont care for the density of the towns, i like something that feeling ilke im concerning a city, not some little thing. Aoe 2 got it right there.
Those weren't elite skirmisher javelins? (Surprised pikachu)
I don't play mobile games just release age of mythology 2 already
Lol
Nobody adressed my bigger issue:
- the maps seem way too small
They said the maps from the preview was a 1vs1 map and they look great and big for a 1VS1 , imagine a 4vs4 , they said the 8 players fit perfectly
Especially for a game like this wide playability is way more important than having maxed out graphics
Graphics are NOT a major factor for an RTS. Its a hygiene factor. The graphics need to be good enough, but unit readability is more important.
Well if I check Anno 1800 or Total War Troyes, after that go back and check Age of Empires IV I cannot unsee the inferior graphics of AoE IV anymore... :(
@@Hopkins955 Those are completely different styles of game, though. Anno is more of a city builder, and Total War has always been more focused on cinematic battles. Also neither of those 2 series of games are designed to be competitive multiplayer games, while that is a big component of the Age series. AoE is more focused on resource management, multitasking, unit micro, positioning and map control. It's pointless to expend too much working time on graphics because the player doesn't have time to sit around at full zoom and watch things happening; they have to constantly make decisions, give unit commands and produce units. Also a cleaner, easy-to-read graphics style is useful because you need to be able to get information and recognize units at a glance as you multitask.
@@axoltl1 Maybe it is just me but I am sometimes just sitting and observing my village, zooming in and watch how my workers are are working or building...
@@Hopkins955 In which game, aoe2? Because graphics there are certainly not the pinnacle of realism in gaming. Like people are saying, for a competitive RTS readability is much more important than being pretty, so that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to a certain point, personally. I mean, I play a lot of the Total War games every now and then, but most of the time I struggle a lot to actually identify and differentiate units, and just get a good grasp of whatever is going on in a battle. Don't get me wrong, I still love those games, but it's a different kind of enjoyment, and I certainly hope not all RTSes follow this trend that has been going on in some other genres, of striving to make each game the graphics card benchmark of the moment and more realistic and grittier than the last, many times at the expense of gameplay qualities.
the people that think this is too cartoony must have had an absolute meltdown when they first saw civ 6
I recall MANY people having meltdowns when Civ 6 came out. People were way angrier about Civ 6 then AoE 4, I follow both communities
It's funny cos Civ 6 looks so much better than Civ 5
People generally have a meltdown about art-style with any 3d strategy game. Civ 6 obviously, but it also happened to Civ 5 and Civ 4 back in the day for those that can remember. Runup to CK3 was also plagued with intense art-style discussions. So far the reaction we have seen for AoE4 is nothing but business as usual.
The game need blood options, age always had blood. Who played as child is now adult, we want BLOOD! (nvm if it's as a dlc for some ratio audience problem like esrb or pegi).
Age 3 don’t have blood , I don’t think is a important think to make but maybe they do the dlc
About scale, those people should compare the sizes of land units and some ships and buildings in the other AoE games and think on the number of people for each house.
bruh right? none of the aoe2 players complain about the Galleons being the same height as a knight
It's not just the current aoe2 community it's aiming for, it's aiming for everyone who grew up with age of.empires and the aesthetics were definitley a draw that stopped people coming back (expecting big changes in the next)
Yeah scale in this game looks better than aoe2 to me
@@l1saneki36 Bruh it`s 2021...we expect more
@@Hopkins955 I'm pretty sure we expect a readable game first. And trying to keep scale to realism can absolutely get in the way of gameplay.
i just hope they get rid of those yellow ghosts building things. They kinda ruin the atmosphere.
I have this sickening feeling.... That we finally got Age 2 in a great place, with a decent community and regular updates and such. And when age 4 comes out its definitely gonna take some players with it, and if its fun, great we can adopt it. But if it sucks like age 3, it could end up just chernobyling the franchise.... The player base will be permanently split and the game will die from there.
I don’t think Age 2 is ever going to lose it’s player base. Age 4 isn’t out yet, but I am pretty certain this is in no way going to compete with or come close to age 2. Just like none of the other ages split fans away from 2, this one won’t either.
This game honestly looks like it’s making all the same mistakes 3 did, but with even worse gameplay mechanics. I am not getting my hopes up.
@@Sarge226 Yeah I thought the same thing.
I try to look at it in a positive way, aoe4 will pull away many casuals and make the aoe2 subreddit less annoying 11
5:18 "...making sure everyone....knows what's going on in the battle..." sounds like spectating is going to be a focus which is probably an important aspect for building the game's popularity. If people who don't really play the game can tell what's happening, it makes for a better esport as it's more accessible to the untrained eye.
Indeed. Having to micro manage is nice, but the pace of the game should also be design to give the players enough little breaks to witness the fights and graphics. Otherwise it's just too hectic.
@@MsabResearch Yes, I think that's the biggest hurdle for RTS games to overcome to become more popular. I think that's why MOBA's were able to become so much so. A great RTS will always have micro management, but too much puts off a lot of people.
the unit scaling reminds me of warcraft 3 somehow
Which wasn't a bad game!
guess we are gonna play aoe2 for another 10 years
damn you have not even played the game yet :)
@@cylvonkoursfelt4742 I'm sorry but it looks like a poor man's Total War Shogun II, and that game is like 10 years old
@@falaflani4831 I love AOE2 but if you're going to judge it by appearance then you've got to admit that even the defenitive edition looks like nothing special, it is only when you play the game, know the mechanics and see the pros push it to its edgd that you can truly judge a game
@@falaflani4831 also shogun 2 was awesome
@@cylvonkoursfelt4742 to me looks like AOE3 with added features from Stronghold and Total War but somehow looks worse than those 2 games. But I have to admit gameplay is king. If they somehow manage to make base building fun like in aoe2, 1 and Stronghold and fun, strategic combat like in aoe2 (No way the combat can be like total war. That's like a different genre. Even the devs of Total War seem to not know how to make a Total War game since Shogun 2) and navy combat with more realistic scaling than the idiotic aoe2 balance where a single knight can take down a war galley on the beach and balance it out by making ships cheap to produce (reason I never play water maps. Just make war ships powerful like how they should be and adjust resources accordingly) it WILL be a hit
Honestly, the colorful bit is actually historically accurate in medieval era. You should see how colorful Burgundians armors are. What disappoint me is the cartoony style of it. It seriously looks like a mobile game now.
I agree. There is a difference between bright colours and being cartoon.
This
Just if you're zoomed in.
From the default the distance it looks pretty good
The problem is some, not all, of the models use the player colour too much and are a big blob of a single homogeneous colour. It appears wherever your player colour appears on the model there is a lack of other details, some of the units/buildings look like they've been painted in plastic. AoE 1 & 2 were very colourful games but AoE 2 im particular was great at making that colour look like a part of the world.
I hate the "Looks like a mobile game" nonsense. Any artstyle that is not realistic is now just trying to be a mobile game? Let alone the fact that the artstyle existed in PC games and consoles long before mobile games existed looking at you Team Fortress 2. You are not obligated to like an artstyle, but stop being silly by calling it a mobile game. It is genuinely annoying.
Art is subjective only when it's intended to be consumed entirely by it's own merits.
After is not subjective when you have teams working together to create a game that is not supposed to make you think. Gee, this pattern here is reminiscent of the Delhi sultanate which is in the wrong time period.
Art is subjective when it's the focus.
I agree, but some things are objectively beautiful or ugly. Pretty much everyone who sees St. Paul's Cathedral would agree it's a beautiful building, whereas a Brutalist concrete structure is almost always atrocious. Good art inspires emotion, and a great artist controls which emotions.
Art style looks good just hope there’s mod support. The community will be able to make the game into what they want or prefer with mods.
Adam isgreen has confirmed mod support, but he said it might not be available on launch
Not a fan of the art style. Perhaps I'm being too critical, but the visual just seems too cartoony for my liking. But of course I'll give it a chance.
I finally broke down and bought a gaming PC last year just for this game and the DE, so i'm already in. This is promising they're listening to the community. 👌🏼Its gonna be a fantastic game, like everyones favorite AOE 2 but enough will be different that it won't be just a graphical upgrade. So glad RTS is back, i missed playing these games as a kid back in 98'
This guy clearly was not let down by Dawn of War 3. i admire your optimism though!
@@shykorustotora For me it was the new cover system they implemented which made cover pointless, the power scaling between elite and standard units being way off balance. I actually think there werent enough abilities! In Dow2 every unit had at least one if not multiple abilities and weapon upgrades whereas dow3 its one ability and no funky wargear. I thought the art was good enough (better looking than aoe4 which is perhaps a different problem) but in a medium or larger battle the screen was an absolute mess and you cant tell whats going on. A gorgeous mess, but a mess.
The objective style gameplay with the towers and generators that was the only type of map at launch was just plain awful. It totally eliminated rushing mechanics from the game. Oh, and they made lascannons lame which is the greatest crime of all.
The ork scrap mechanic was pretty cool though. And some amazing map design. But theres alot of valid reasons why dow3 went down to 500 players after a couple weeks.
Make buildings bigger and have scrolling in and out become more of a mechanic. I think we can have larger battlefields.
Total War showed that haha
@@TheFre1509 Yes exactly I wanted them to do something like Total War combat and camera wise! But no, we are still stuck to the old mechanics...
He's on the right track tho, they are prioritizing playability and substance over stylitics. Look what they've done to warcraft III reforged, they ruined it with the over realistic, gritty graphics because no one understands wtf is going on in the battles, so everyone in the comunity got back to the cartoony graphics
WC3 was a failure at launch because it was a buggy, unplayable mess.
The graphics were wow rips they weren't gritty at all
@@icarus9661 Compare it to the original
@@capitanmarmota8562 You mean the thing wow still bases models off of?
After waiting so long I do expect graphics significantly better than AOE3DE. I'm not too woried since the game is still in alpha but those explosions in 7:29 look hideous. I'm sure they can make a good looking game that runs on a mid-range PC.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even notice that in the game. It was a very close-up shot. In the game you'll see it from a much bigger distance and you'll also be paying attention to other stuff.
In RTS games I still think 2D graphic is better then 3D. I don't know if 3D have some other bonuses than different angle of camera but 2D is more friendly to my CPU and you can have bigger maps and more units.
I'm curious how many reasons there are other than fashion that RTS have all gone 3D. Hades proved that pre rendered sprites can still make some of the best looking graphics in the world. Brigador as well, I'd love to see an RTS in that style.
@@EmperorSigismund I asume that biggest villian in this story is w3. There is 3D made really great.
Aoe4 fans? how can you be a fan of something that isnt out yet???
"Art is subjective" worries me.
Age of Empires 3 DE looks better than this. I mean, it does look like a mobile game. Does that mean I won't play it, or that it's automatically bad? No, but its off-putting, enough that it concerns me for the game as a whole. I'll wait until there's a consensus before buying.
He is actually right about the scaling, those units would like ants on a mobile.
jajaja. Yes, on a mobile will be awful, they can not lose all that market.
Simple fix. Just have different scaling for mobile and make everything right on PC
Why didn't they just show us new footage? That vid felt super corporate and I think that was the biggest red flag for everyone
Also, it's hard to see how they avoid the exact same balance and bug problems as AoE 3
because xbox era is a podcast that is not a afiliated with xbox in any way it just xbox fans doing a podcast about xbox, showing a new trailer in a podcast like that is impossible lmao + it was an interview not a event of anything, is clear that xbox is only showing gameplay and that type of thing in events
My worry is the micro looks week, which means this won’t take over AoE2 for the dominant age pro game.
Problem with new UI is to me, it looks like, it comes from Starcraft. Empire games have wooden/stone textured UIs. Even more "technological" Aoe3 has that wood/old feeling.
What you need to make an engaging game is thrilling animations and gameplay. You don't need high end graphics, just something that works and has an appealing artstyle.
If the graphics does not evolve this franchise is dead. Compare this to Anno 1800 or Total War Try and you will understand what I am talking about.
Yeah, but I think most people saying the graphics suck are including the artstyle in that statement. The artstyle just looks so different from what a lot of age fans wanted.
Last time i was this early, age of mythology definitive edition was still in the air
they confirmed it not happening?
So what about the star wars one using the DE engine?
It still is
historically some arrows were that large. check the sizes i shoot
I'm having strong AOE Online vibes unfortunately...
Seems like most fans want realism in terms of graphics, physics, combat and scaling.. How are the people who made company of heroes not getting it, they nailed all those checkboxes off 15 years ago..
Yeah, either there is a tyrant lead dev at Relic who prefers cartoon graphics, or they have a plan to make a mobile version. Because the community never asked for cartoon graphics. I remember when Age Online was laughed off for looking ridiculous.
Relic have changed a lot since the days of CoH
I am kinda hyped for AoE 4, but i have 3 issues with it:
a) It just looks like a modern remake of aoe 2 with better grafics and some new mechanics.
b) Trying to combine AoE 2 and 3 into a game while having 2 excelent definitive edition games - I hope that once the AoE 4 comes out, the support and development for Aoe 2 and 3 DE does not end. Both games are recent and are still having massive upgrades, why leave all that for a game with lesser options in civs/mechanics. Also, aoe 2 and 3 have very different type of players, since the first takes way more time than the very fast paced aoe 3. I dont think this will translate to a bigger community in aoe 4.
c) The idea of 8 civs + a new 4 Civ DLC per year not only will amount to a fairly expensive game, but also a game with substancially less civs and variety than aoe 2 or 3 (The current civs are Britons, Franks, HRE, Vikings Mongols, Chinese, Indians and Russians.) All these civs are linked through the campagins, but they dont represent the biggest empires in their age, which imho falls short than what it should be.
i don't want a cyberfuck game give me an aoe game, and this art style is good imo
mobile aoe4
@@shykorustotora I do care about shit looking visuals tho, its 2021 and those graphics are way too outdated imo
@@shykorustotora what minecraft lmao are u feelin well bro?
@@shykorustotora Things like minecraft, roblox, fall guys are all different games than the aoe series;
We like to feel the atmosphere of medieval era, early modern era. And shit graphics takes it away, imagine playing battlefield 1 with shit graphics, or shit stuff(why bf5 had so much hate, no one likes cyborg females in ww2) lol.. AoE series has to be serious and has to have realistic graphics, its nor minecraft nor the players have the same mindset as minecraft players.... lmao
sry for grammer mistakes tho :P
@@shykorustotora they were good at their time lol, they still dont look like made out of dough :)
The arrows were one of my main issues, and I didn't even find it to be that bad. I'm glad they're fixing it, but it wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me anyway. I do think some of the weapons (particularly some lances) look too big and goofy, but hopefully that's addressed as well. As for unit scaling, I don't have a big problem with that: the units in every game have been giants compared to their buildings, that's just how it is: this one may be a bit more extreme, but not by that much, and it sounds like they're fixing it.
Art style is terrible
The real issue is the frame rate drops in the trailer. Genuinely surprised that all I’ve seen is people complaining about “muh graphics” when the graphics are fine, they’re good enough, I legit don’t care. But if the game suffers from performance issues, that’s a real concern for me.
Someone should have told Adam to stop slapping his table while talking on the podcast lol.
I think people are way overreacting to these issues, it's good to make criticism heard, but I've seen so many people going way too far
Based on how he handled other perspectives/opinions/criticisms in the podcast, I'm not entirely sure he would have accepted it. "Some people like no background noise in podcasts, but that's subjective. Our team likes slapping the table and that's just more important to us." ;) Sorry to be so cynical, but he didn't seem to massively respect the opposing opinions he faced in feedback given so I'm sceptical about his ability to take criticism.
Im definetly getting it, i really hated what they did to DOW3 but probably they learned from their mistakes, i think relic deserves another chance.
relic made a great work with Homeworld Remastered, and they are working in a third entry of the game! relic is a great company for RTS but yeah... DOW3 sucked really bad
Unlike Blizzard.
Relic is most likely going to learn from their mistakes.
I feel like developers can’t really show alpha footage anymore.. it’s like people don’t understand how a games development works.
6:45 His dog patiently waiting in the background
hahaha what a good boy
So I think the cartoon colors are exactly what the game needs. Very inviting and helpful for unit distinction. Especially when we have team games. But they NEED to improve the unit models a bit. The colors can be out there, but this game needs to be a blatant improvement on unit model quality. It’s been so many years I want to see some units like a total war game. Even is they are slightly cartoony. They can’t have crappy definition.
Scaling and cartoony look still very veru sceptical. (unit feel one of the most important thing in rts for me)
sorry, but i never understand why cartoony even mattered? the series is always as cartoony as ever even since the first aoe. its just that because the 4th was 3d rendered it suddenly becoming more obvious. for me, i think the scale problem are more important right now. in fact, i'm not sure that they're gonna change the cartoony looking style as it required to rebuilt the asset of the game from 0, which take a long time to do
@@Synsky we just had aoe2de and aoe3, im really okay to wait for game,plenty of content. For aoe4 to have a chance to be huge, it needs to be "clean" and what it is now just too much noise.
I am not satisfied at all, it looks like SHIT lol.... but no problem, I'll happilly stick to aoe1,2&3
just remember dawn of war and the first company of heroes graphics... and now this. 2021 game looks like age online
CoH was so revolutionary... When I first started the tutorial and order soldiers to shoot I was thinking they will stand in place and shoot. Oh boy... I was so wrong... they split and took nearby cover (AI was amazing in that game - unbelievable for 2006 game)
@@Baldur1005 dawn of war and coh both were waaaay ahead of its time. And when i play c&c i was so fkn disapointed by the graphics and gameplay .
@@TheOperationHastings Well but both were more of tactical in nature. In Age people expect bigger battles and more economy. But there is no reason to look like mobile game ad
Yeah I was going to say it looks like Age online
Good news, but I remain sceptical as long as I haven't seen current gameplay.
Besides arrows also animations in general are a big problem. Some of them didn't look very modern and sometimes units were clunky. Also some details need to be improved like the terrain. It looks blurry sometimes. Many people also wish a blood/skeleton toggle option in game. At least a gore DLC pack would be good.
I too like the colorful art style, but it's really hard not to hate your braindead argument for it. One of the best parts about Age of Empires is its niche community. You will not find it as easy to communicate with the developers or anybody when it goes mainstream.
I hope they keep the trade carts and trade ships.
this game doesnt look special to me. idk why i should buy it :D
As long as they have Ludicrous random gen maps, I’ll be in.
Am I the only one expecting more?
Hear this out : AGE OF EMPIRES trademark is good unit design, iconic building design, epic sounds, real terrain, real lightning and real landmarks. Do it
don't you mean lighting instead of lightning?
Not looking good for aoe4, might have to pass on it
What about the fact that villagers are a solid 4 feet away from the resource they gather. I feel like that's an easy fix
I wish the building were a little bigger, they feel to small compared to the units like in aoe1, aoe2 feel the right size game with aom
Why is nobody talking about the magic siege weapons moving without operators... like guys its 2021, I know it looks funny in age 2 but looks horrendous and cringy in age of empires 4, pls get those operators on the siege weapon 😪 and I hate how they try to include everyone on aoe 4 when the goal audience is so exclusive, like we want a serious [dont care about scale or colors] but serious realistic looking units, not a mobile game in a PC. People playing fortnite won't put a look in aoe 4... and you should be loyal to the nostalgic audience that play this game since 1998...
Ok, Its relic, they did realistic soldiers in CoH and it looks amazing and all vehicles got an operator. I know they are making aoe 4 great , but listen the community, we dont want cartoonish graphics.... we have not been waiting 3 years for a game, it's been 20 years!! Make it worth it, CoH got great graphics, gameplay and campaign. We know aoe 4 can be like that too!!
Age of empires online has happened and also age of empires 3, both unsuccesfull. What do they do? Create AoE2.5 with a mix of 3/online artstyle
Somehow this looks worse than age 2 DE
I still think it will be a huge failure and end of the Relic. Because they still focused to make this game "for everyone" which is bullshit. Rts fans want genuine rts games. Especially fans for a cult game geries like this. 20 years on and people will still be playing aoe 2.
They better not try and make shit for mobile give me a god damned break. The graphics are a little shoddy if you consider these trailers should be rendered in the highest possible settings.... Im okay with scale. The arrow issue does stand out now that youve pointed it out, but if the animations are fast, it will be okay. But the graphics definitely could use some more polygons and shaders.
It doesn’t look the way I hoped. A little too bright and glowing, but the fact that they’ve narrowed down the civs gives me hope maybe they’ll be super different with enough common ground to advance the series but stay true to it
It kinda really looks like a mobile game, rise of kingdoms or something.. it's unfortunate but I'm sure I'll get used to it
mobile games are advancing way too fast, the barrier is very thin atm. have you seen path of exile for mobile? looking sick.
Oh come on! What is with these late 90's graphics? The soldiers, the buildings, the textures on everything, the grass, the snow, the foliage, the walls, the straw roofs of houses, the cranelation-textures on towers...etc. These are pre AoE3 era graphics...in 2021. It seriously has graphics far worse than AoE3's graphics. At least AoE had nice water textures and decent snow and foliage textures.
And this guy is sitting there, stubbornly defending the cheap, late 90's graphics and the terrble building size scaling. It's making the game look ridiculous. And he seems satisfied, saying he thinks they got the core of it "and want to work and improve from there". I bet he isn't working on improving this circus of a game. It looks too bright and cartoony. Like Fortnite. If Fortnite was a historic RTS game....that was released in 1998.
I'm part of a large number of AoE fans that would like to see AoE develop into a more mature, much more realistic looking AoE game.
From a 2021 AoE game we should at least be able to expect:
-3D looking, lush green and dried up yellow short and all grass
-Thick layers of sparkling white snow.
-Detailed, realistic foliage on bushes and trees.
-Realistic lighting effects. Light colors, shadows
-Reflective surfaces; Water, ice, smooth stones, plant foliage, glass..etc
-Realistic fire effects: Flames, muzzle flashes, flying embers, blazing thatched roofs, smouldering wood..etc
-Realistic scaling. People should actually fit inside houses. Castles should be huge.
I was expecting that an game AoE game being developed in 2021 would have that covered and already be busy adding in new elements like daytime/nighttime cycles & the ability to age up from the middle ages all the way up to the WW1 or even the Vietnam era.
Age 2 is the greatest RTS ever made on so many levels. I don’t know why they don’t just adhere to that blueprint (like Starcraft adheres to theirs).
A game with modern tanks, planes, infantry, trenches and barriers for walls, oil fields instead of stone mines, snipers, artillery, jeeps, helicopters, etc. that plays just like Age 2 but with aerial style units kind of like in Starcraft would be so much cooler imo. They could’ve stuck to that Age 1-5 graphic from forever ago too.
Mythology and 3 were ok fun but demonstrated why you shouldn’t deviate from what Age 1-2 laid out in terms of core base building and fighting mechanics.
I just see a studio missing an opportunity to show us what age is all about in the hopes they will make a unique standout age game.
I also don’t agree with recycling an era of history we’ve already seen. The era isn’t why age 2 is amazing. It’s the base building, balance, fighting mechanics, and resource management.
Maybe I’ll be wrong, but my hopes are not high.
I'm 100% for accessibility options for people with poor eyesight or something, but I'm not at all for assuming the RTS player base as a whole is mentally handicapped and need to have arrows as big as bolts from roman ballistae to get a grip on what's going on on the battlefield. I don't need my units to be as big as units in Civ games to not lose track.
Don't treat people like idiots. Yes, that includes newcomers. Don't keep lowering the bar to accommodate imbeciles. That's not how you build quality products, nor create a healthy player base. People that are not super invested will fall off after completing campaigns, skirmishes and maybe some mp matches. And then dedicated players will be left with a product forged with stupid peo- UGH! I mean 'broad market' in mind.
Don't go Dawn of War III path.
Castles are too short compared to walls
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me
For as much as I want and will play this game the graphic style it’s a turn off, I was 12 when I started playing AoE and now in my 30’s this kind of graphics do bother me, it could be I’m old or whatever but it just feels like another mobile game. I know it’s a game and “realistic” it’s just a term but they should’ve kept the graphics close to reality just like AoE2 did.
no man what are they doing ???, age of empire 4 should not have been an age of empire 2 expansion , they should have done the 1800's , the confederate and union states and Mexico and Texas in north America , Qajar in Iran , the ottomans , the Zulu's in Africa , the Sokoto Caliphate . Age of empire should have focused in the 1900's instead of going back to age of empire 2 era , I think they made a mistake and they will probably see the sales go down and their fans will probably give the game low ratings , they screwed up big time with age of empire 4 , definitely a thumbs down from me . Age of empire 4 is remake of age of empire 2 with cartoon graphics ???? Dude they should have focused on the civil war era with the union and the confederate and cowboys , kind of like the red dead redemption video game
Animation, textures, explosion effects are nice - for a mobile game.
For a PC game that will last at least 10 years, not really. Company of heroes 1 a game that Relic mage in 2006 (but those developers have left relic long long time ago) is much more modern then this. Graphics seems to be somehow pretty only when camera is max zoomed out , and I can not see myself playing AOE in that style
Why they are saying left and right that they wan to have a realistic game and then throw ugly ass cartoonish graphics and broken scaling.
I think it looks great! Rather have good readability and gameplay than insane graphics that clutter the screen. Only thing that bothered me a little was the smoke and explosions from the gunpowder, it was a bit much.
I am playing this game since 2 decades. AOE 2 and 3 DE graphics are better than AOE 4. Hope creators will do something atleast about war graphics.
I agree that the graphics of AOE 4 is similar to mobile game graphics but is more detailed and still looks good for me. Its graphics looks more realistic compare to the graphics of Dota 2 or League of Legends. The graphics of AOE 4 looks great for me :)
The units are bigger than the buildings hahaha They really need to fix that. Apart the arrows and scale, a thing that really bothers me is the naval battles. The physics of the ships are awful. And those people that complain about the graphics are stupid people. Some parts of the game are beautiful, like terrain. It was the same stupid argument in AOE online. The game was beautiful, the gameplay that matters.
Not going to lie - I really love the cartoony graphics. Maybe because as an illustrator I suck at realism xD so I am biased in that regard. But hey - I really can't wait for this game to come out!
"Leans away from realism" whilst making a game which is based on the real world, and following AOE III.. Ughh
When you reacted live to the videos, you thought the fire looked bad. I agree, and I'm hoping that gets fixed
I'm sorry but the art style absolute dogshit. Indistinguishable from the mobile garbage that they will inevitably convert it to. Not buying.
Presumably they have a lot of work to do on shadows, lighting, reflections, etc which will probably round off the "cartoony" appearance. I didn't really see any reflections and the shadows had a very low draw distance so hopefully all that stuff is improved as it makes a pretty outsized difference
It's kinda hilarious to see how many people think that cartoon graphics equal bad graphics. The game looks mostly stunning. Realistic, no. Beautiful, yes.
@@raffaelsteinmann7296 Games that take a specific art style over realism also look a lot better than "realistic games" in 10 years time. I do think the game appear differently on release though for the aforementioned reasons. If you took shadows and lighting out of any games they would look cartoony so the finished product may look more realistic than the alpha footage anyway
@@shykorustotora it’s in alpha and not coming out for at least six months so don’t hold your breath I guess???
@@shykorustotora Apparently a lot of people do based on the "not realistic enough" crowd. Realism is to a significant degree shadows and lighting (and reflections for that matter). Shadows, lighting and reflection quality is usually the first thing sacrificed for console releases which is where that criticism is coming from. It looks really odd to see shadows disappear at max zoom so I am assuming it is just because it's still being worked. When you play a game on console and then PC draw distance, especially for shadows, is probably the single most jarring thing. Not saying they are intending to do a console release or this is the final state of the game, quite the opposite as confirmed in the video we are commenting on. Even the dev is telling you they are still working on the game so not sure why you think its done and about to be released, when they have only confirmed a sometime-in-fall release window?
@@shykorustotora no you said I wanted them to delay release to implement more shadows. I simply speculated they MAY at some point before release work on them. I don’t think improving draw distances would be this massive project breaking endeavor, but maybe there is so much h spaghetti code it’s impossible. Maybe they won’t make any improvements to the game beyond fixing arrows, I don’t know and neither do you. Congratulations on working in the industry but unless you are working on aoe4 I’m not sure you can do anything other than speculate either. Some games by veteran companies with experienced developers still turn out like dog shit so obviously there are idiosyncratic factors in each video game’s development cycle, as with any project. We are commenting on a video that is discussing speculation about an unreleased game so I don’t think my comment is that radical
I don't like that there are no people behind the cannons or artillery, scale is off for all units and buildings and it looks a bit cartooonish. I like the path finding and movement of units. The hills and countryside. I like the walls and being able to man them.
I don’t like the Ishmae guy. Just make the units the right size and add more zoom. Duh 😒 and stop being pretentious and make it realistic
I don't know, the closer the premiere of AOE4 gets, the less expectation I have for it. Maybe it is because i prefer the style and historical era of EOE3DE. In a way i expected AOE4 to span the entire timeline of its predecessors, from prehistoric to early 20th century, not in the comic style of Empire earth; but in a way of marking times ... I don't know. After all, age4 is the update of the recent AOE2DE.
Yeah another aoe2... sorry did I say aoe2 5.0? I don't support this. They should have go to modern ages like the aoe3 handbook predicted it. This is simply for getting money of those hardcore aoe2 boys.
If aoe2 fans wouldn't be dickheads we maybe would have got what has to be done: AoE4 which is in the timeline of wwI wwII cold war and thats it.
@@obi-wankenobi8813 I agree with you completely. AoE 2 dickheads...
They caused the backward step and now the game is AoE 2 remake.
@@TerahAsh My favourite game is AoE 2 but I wanted them to recreate the whole combat, level of detail and camera view Total War style and making the battles even bigger. This ain`t it chief...
He didn't say scaling was reversed at all.