Can't wait for the Tesla NACS Connector and the Magic Dock to essentially "work". A few weeks ago, I decided to take a risk and charge my 2022 Volvo C40 Dual Motor EV at The Tesla Superchargers in Vicksburg, MS. Terrible charging experience! I loved the fact that the CCS Magic Dock was installed, but when I plugged it in, I couldn't really get a charge to go through from the Tesla "Charge your Non-Tesla" app. I tried this at 8 different stalls with the same connection error. So, I don't believe this is ready for Prime Time for Non-Tesla owners. Volvo Cars USA hasn't come out and certified the Magic Dock connection either. I landed up getting stranded in Vicksburg at 10% SOC and had to stay overnight at a hotel so I could charge at a L2 charger to my final destination (Baton Rouge, LA). I have had no issues going I40 East to Nashville, I40 West to Little Rock, AR and even Saint Louis (MO) utilizing Electrify America's DCFC
Very well done, Max! I’ve no doubt there will be some growing pains with this conversion to NACS, but if people will be patient and the car companies do a competent job on their end, it will as you say be a game changer. Look forward to more info and news from your channel.
From my perspective the emotional change of going to the Tesla is going to present many reality issues, short cables, parking issues, different car systems likely all going to result in "we thought this was going to be the fix". If Tesla opens their chargers to non Tesla vehicles you WILL have parking issues, mark my words. We see that now at CCS sites, people are ignorant. CCS actually is very flexible, they just need to work.
The one I went to in Vicksburg, MS didn't work on my 2022 Volvo C40 Twin Motor. I have seen some Hyundai IONIQ5, Kia EV6 and Ford Mustang Mach Es being successful. I wonder if the 800V architecture makes a charging difference!
Max, 13 superchargers with magic dock. The team that installed the Fort Worth location claimed there are a dozen sites in the Texas region slated for them. That is hearsay by them, but they showed how easy the retrofit is on v3's. They told me after i was surprised that the new installation didnt come with the magicdock pre-installed. 10:4310:4310:43
@@anthonyc8499 Easy, there is government money to be had that is quickly drying up. I am more surprised they had to install them secondary to the install of the superchargers. I would assume if a new site was planned and they wanted to magic docks, why not do it at time of build install of install the units and then add the magic docks right after initial install.
Jim Farley at Ford said his agreement with Tesla was that payment would be made using the Ford app. Jim said no Ford customers would ever need to have the Tesla app.
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe said basically the same thing about their vehicles recently as well; that payments would be done through Rivian's existing on-board payment system. But he also said no data would be transmitted to Tesla during the charge, which seems in opposition to all this. Something about the vehicle is being shared to authenticate the start of the charge, track the amount of current used and to whom. It's all very curious. In Europe, with every vehicle being CCS-2, it's all done through Tesla's app.
I really hope the portable adapter is optimized for non-Tesla charge port locations. It needs to be like the Chademo adapter and be 2-3' long to reduce strain on the cable.
Strictly speaking, no it doesn't. The issue isn't with the cable position or length. However, Any fairly simple way to adjust location to suit *more* (not all) cars is to move the white lines. If the point at which the cable connects to the charger is central in the parking bay, it should reach most "corner charge port" cars. The "side port" vehicles may be out of luck. The adaptor will essentially be the removable portion of the Magic Dock. It doesn't need to be any more complicated. . I suspect that many of the accessible chargers will simply be new V3/4 units, installed in positions which allow access. It's likely Tesla will have installed sufficient numbers between November(?)2022 a d January 2024 to reach the required number.
gr8 vid Max, very informative and as a Q4 owner cant wait until we can charge at Tesla..........notice in the background at least 2 Tesla's drive up, plug in and start charging........thats what we want. Going to interesting how the control use of adapters on non Tesla cars being shared with manufacturers that havent signed as one assumes the connections can physically be made?
Boy, that answered a crap ton of questions I had. I am a new EV6 owner and you addressed pretty much everything I was wanting to know about the NACS transition for CCS vehicles. SUBSCRIBED!
If manufacturers of CCS vehicles like Hyundai were smart (and I am not saying they are not), they would deliver FOR FREE the NACS adapter to customers who bought cars with CCS ports. This would help insure customer loyalty for the next time that customer wants to purchase a new vehicle: it would help prove they really do care about customer support. Or they could save some money and possibly lose that future customer.
Tap to pay on new V4 units in Europe/ UK. . Its going to be interesting to see if the card users on TESLA chargers have issues with card payment but those on the same charger using the Tesla app (or actual TESLA owners) have zero problems?
This helps a lot. There's quite a bit of confusion regarding the Supercharger network opening to non-Teslas, and this answers my questions so far. For Teslas, Superchargers are like ICE vehicles pulling up to a gas pump (but slower), for everything else, as you said, it's complicated 😢
"slower".... Unless the driver using the gas pump wishes to use the facilities in the station, in which case, they must. Fill up. Pay. Move the vehicle (if busy) Then enter the building before "doing whatever" . Tesla owner. Exit vehicle. Plug in Walk away. Immediate saving.
Just a thought… couldn’t the nacs to ccs adapters be specific to each manufacturer, allowing the cable length issue to be addressed by increasing the length of the adapter. This would allow each vehicle to park in the designated space while charging.
I wonder if the non Tesla EV adapters will add length to the supercharger cable for reach sort of like the Tesla chademo cable so those cars won’t take up 2 spots??
The SAE charging time test of 10 minutes is ridiculous because it cherry picks the best 10 minutes of a charging curve. Stick with the 10-80% metric since chargers are getting better and is irrespective of the curve.
Max, will a first generation Harley Davidson Livewire electric motorcycle, which fast charges with CCS, be able to use an adapter next year to charge via NACS or is that only for vehicles that make a deal with Tesla and that Tesla approves? Thx.
I like your videos and the information this channel provides. I've learned a lot from you guys Towards the beginning of the video, it is a little bit confusing when you said this is a NACS connector not Supercharging. One is a connector the other is the action of charging at a Supercharger. Can't compare those. It's like saying this is a CCS connector this is not fast charging. I think I know what you were trying to imply but it could be confusing. Keep up the good work.
Tesla and the big car makers use CCS2 all over Europe and it works fine, so when their cars work fine with it here why are they going to the NACS in the USA when they have tons of experience with CCS2?
Your stats are a bit misleading. Yes, there are 12,000 Tesla Supercharger UNITS in the US, but there are far less than 1000 Tesla Supercharger SITES in the country. A lot of their sites contain 20-40 Supercharger units, which greatly distorts the numbers, making it sound like there is a Supercharger on every corner in the corner, when the truth is that in some states, like my home state of Oklahoma, there is only ONE Supercharger site in the entire western half of the state including the panhandle, and there are no Superchargers between I-40 and I-70 and between I-25 and I-35, a HUGE gap.
Whatever, and only 4 of those are located in the entire state of Oklahoma, one in the western half of the state and in their announcement about “doubling” the Supercharging network, Tesla has not announced any plans to add any charging locations either here, or anywhere within that huge area I outlined in my previoius comment. Nothing is going to change in this area. The move to the NACS connector will have little to no effect here. Here is a quiz: Zoom in on Dodge City, Kansas and get back to us on where all the Tesla Superchargers are, either within that city or within 100 miles of there, or where the new ones will be in this upcoming 2024 “huge” new expansion of Superchargers. @@Techridr
I'm glad I've recently ordered one last ICE vehicle before making the switch. I would just rather wait until everything has been sorted out and pretty much all new cars are EV. Too much money for something so new. You guys can do all of the testing and trials and errors and I'll sit back for a while and see how it all plays out.
Wake me up when everyone gets this stuff sorted, when battery electric vehicles can be charged within 5 minutes, and there is some way that renters and people in multi-family housing can "charge at home." But I won't join your ELECTRIC REVOLUTION until this nonsensical "early adopter" period moves into working, useful personal vehicles that people in this country can actually afford.
People have questions now and there's lots of misinfo spreading so it's worth clearing up what we do know now. Absolutely will be more details next year.
Can't wait for the Tesla NACS Connector and the Magic Dock to essentially "work". A few weeks ago, I decided to take a risk and charge my 2022 Volvo C40 Dual Motor EV at The Tesla Superchargers in Vicksburg, MS. Terrible charging experience! I loved the fact that the CCS Magic Dock was installed, but when I plugged it in, I couldn't really get a charge to go through from the Tesla "Charge your Non-Tesla" app. I tried this at 8 different stalls with the same connection error. So, I don't believe this is ready for Prime Time for Non-Tesla owners. Volvo Cars USA hasn't come out and certified the Magic Dock connection either. I landed up getting stranded in Vicksburg at 10% SOC and had to stay overnight at a hotel so I could charge at a L2 charger to my final destination (Baton Rouge, LA). I have had no issues going I40 East to Nashville, I40 West to Little Rock, AR and even Saint Louis (MO) utilizing Electrify America's DCFC
Great video Max! Keep up the good work.
Very well done, Max! I’ve no doubt there will be some growing pains with this conversion to NACS, but if people will be patient and the car companies do a competent job on their end, it will as you say be a game changer. Look forward to more info and news from your channel.
Thank You for supporting Electric Vehicles and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
From my perspective the emotional change of going to the Tesla is going to present many reality issues, short cables, parking issues, different car systems likely all going to result in "we thought this was going to be the fix".
If Tesla opens their chargers to non Tesla vehicles you WILL have parking issues, mark my words. We see that now at CCS sites, people are ignorant.
CCS actually is very flexible, they just need to work.
In West Texas, there are 250 kW Superchargers in all the places I want them. Fingers crossed they actually work. 🤞
The one I went to in Vicksburg, MS didn't work on my 2022 Volvo C40 Twin Motor. I have seen some Hyundai IONIQ5, Kia EV6 and Ford Mustang Mach Es being successful. I wonder if the 800V architecture makes a charging difference!
Max, 13 superchargers with magic dock. The team that installed the Fort Worth location claimed there are a dozen sites in the Texas region slated for them. That is hearsay by them, but they showed how easy the retrofit is on v3's. They told me after i was surprised that the new installation didnt come with the magicdock pre-installed. 10:43 10:43 10:43
I am surprised that any new Magic Dock locations opened up after the initial 11 back in March and Ford made the NACS announcement.
@@anthonyc8499 Easy, there is government money to be had that is quickly drying up. I am more surprised they had to install them secondary to the install of the superchargers. I would assume if a new site was planned and they wanted to magic docks, why not do it at time of build install of install the units and then add the magic docks right after initial install.
Magic dock is a good way of testing the tesla-css converter converter that they will sell at some point
Jim Farley at Ford said his agreement with Tesla was that payment would be made using the Ford app. Jim said no Ford customers would ever need to have the Tesla app.
Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe said basically the same thing about their vehicles recently as well; that payments would be done through Rivian's existing on-board payment system. But he also said no data would be transmitted to Tesla during the charge, which seems in opposition to all this. Something about the vehicle is being shared to authenticate the start of the charge, track the amount of current used and to whom. It's all very curious.
In Europe, with every vehicle being CCS-2, it's all done through Tesla's app.
Tesla is continuing to deploy new/additional Magic Dock chargers in North Western Ontario where there is a paucity of charging infrastructure.
I really hope the portable adapter is optimized for non-Tesla charge port locations. It needs to be like the Chademo adapter and be 2-3' long to reduce strain on the cable.
Strictly speaking, no it doesn't.
The issue isn't with the cable position or length.
However,
Any fairly simple way to adjust location to suit *more* (not all) cars is to move the white lines.
If the point at which the cable connects to the charger is central in the parking bay, it should reach most "corner charge port" cars.
The "side port" vehicles may be out of luck.
The adaptor will essentially be the removable portion of the Magic Dock. It doesn't need to be any more complicated.
.
I suspect that many of the accessible chargers will simply be new V3/4 units, installed in positions which allow access.
It's likely Tesla will have installed sufficient numbers between November(?)2022 a d January 2024 to reach the required number.
gr8 vid Max, very informative and as a Q4 owner cant wait until we can charge at Tesla..........notice in the background at least 2 Tesla's drive up, plug in and start charging........thats what we want. Going to interesting how the control use of adapters on non Tesla cars being shared with manufacturers that havent signed as one assumes the connections can physically be made?
Boy, that answered a crap ton of questions I had. I am a new EV6 owner and you addressed pretty much everything I was wanting to know about the NACS transition for CCS vehicles. SUBSCRIBED!
If manufacturers of CCS vehicles like Hyundai were smart (and I am not saying they are not), they would deliver FOR FREE the NACS adapter to customers who bought cars with CCS ports. This would help insure customer loyalty for the next time that customer wants to purchase a new vehicle: it would help prove they really do care about customer support. Or they could save some money and possibly lose that future customer.
CA regulations (to get CA funding) also require on-station payment. Other states may also require this.
Tesla already turned down the CA funding because of this AFAIK, could be wrong but that's what I remember off of the top of my head
@@Black-Villain right
Tap to pay on new V4 units in Europe/ UK.
.
Its going to be interesting to see if the card users on TESLA chargers have issues with card payment but those on the same charger using the Tesla app (or actual TESLA owners) have zero problems?
This helps a lot. There's quite a bit of confusion regarding the Supercharger network opening to non-Teslas, and this answers my questions so far.
For Teslas, Superchargers are like ICE vehicles pulling up to a gas pump (but slower), for everything else, as you said, it's complicated 😢
"slower".... Unless the driver using the gas pump wishes to use the facilities in the station, in which case, they must.
Fill up.
Pay.
Move the vehicle (if busy)
Then enter the building before "doing whatever"
.
Tesla owner.
Exit vehicle.
Plug in
Walk away.
Immediate saving.
When purchasing a charging adapter be sure than the one you buy is built to handle 50 Amps or higher.
Just a thought… couldn’t the nacs to ccs adapters be specific to each manufacturer, allowing the cable length issue to be addressed by increasing the length of the adapter. This would allow each vehicle to park in the designated space while charging.
Cables are liquid-cooled. I don’t think adding an air-cooled extension cable would be supported (or safe).
Really informative video and you covered it all. Keep up the great work!!
I wonder if the non Tesla EV adapters will add length to the supercharger cable for reach sort of like the Tesla chademo cable so those cars won’t take up 2 spots??
NACS is not actually identical to the previous Tesla connector, but most people do not need to understand the differences.
Correct, but since it's backwards compatible, it's nothing people need to worry about.
Nice informative video. Ty
Is there a visual way of easily telling the difference between the charging units ? Ford has plug and charge.
All I want to know is when my CCS cars will receive an adapter and allowed to create an account on the Tesla app to charge at a Tesla SuC.
The SAE charging time test of 10 minutes is ridiculous because it cherry picks the best 10 minutes of a charging curve. Stick with the 10-80% metric since chargers are getting better and is irrespective of the curve.
How about urban superchargers? Will these work with CCS cars on the adapter?
Ford has announced that they will give Lightning and Mach E owners FREE adapters.
Max, will a first generation Harley Davidson Livewire electric motorcycle, which fast charges with CCS, be able to use an adapter next year to charge via NACS or is that only for vehicles that make a deal with Tesla and that Tesla approves? Thx.
There has to be the deal made with Tesla. No issue at superchargers with magic dock adapters built in though.
@@outofspecguide ok, thanks. there are only two magic dock superchargers in all of California at the moment.
I like your videos and the information this channel provides. I've learned a lot from you guys
Towards the beginning of the video, it is a little bit confusing when you said this is a NACS connector not Supercharging. One is a connector the other is the action of charging at a Supercharger. Can't compare those. It's like saying this is a CCS connector this is not fast charging.
I think I know what you were trying to imply but it could be confusing.
Keep up the good work.
Great job
Tesla and the big car makers use CCS2 all over Europe and it works fine, so when their cars work fine with it here why are they going to the NACS in the USA when they have tons of experience with CCS2?
CCS-2 uses three-phase AC power, which isn't common here in the U.S. except for businesses. CCS-1 and NACS are designed for single-phase AC.
Thanks. Is there any announcement that Bolt will get Supercharger access? I suspect Tesla would not want to allow Bolt Supercharging.
There is an agreement to allow GM vehicles access to Tesla Superchargers starting next year, which I assume would include Bolts.
@@ab-tf5fl “assume” , you say.
Your stats are a bit misleading. Yes, there are 12,000 Tesla Supercharger UNITS in the US, but there are far less than 1000 Tesla Supercharger SITES in the country. A lot of their sites contain 20-40 Supercharger units, which greatly distorts the numbers, making it sound like there is a Supercharger on every corner in the corner, when the truth is that in some states, like my home state of Oklahoma, there is only ONE Supercharger site in the entire western half of the state including the panhandle, and there are no Superchargers between I-40 and I-70 and between I-25 and I-35, a HUGE gap.
Less than 1000? No. There are about 1900 Supercharger locations in the US and growing fast.
Whatever, and only 4 of those are located in the entire state of Oklahoma, one in the western half of the state and in their announcement about “doubling” the Supercharging network, Tesla has not announced any plans to add any charging locations either here, or anywhere within that huge area I outlined in my previoius comment. Nothing is going to change in this area. The move to the NACS connector will have little to no effect here. Here is a quiz: Zoom in on Dodge City, Kansas and get back to us on where all the Tesla Superchargers are, either within that city or within 100 miles of there, or where the new ones will be in this upcoming 2024 “huge” new expansion of Superchargers. @@Techridr
Full ev adoption is the same as fusion... It will never happen😂
True, EVs will never fully replace bicycles, horses, or walking
Thank goodness we put a man on the moon. Seems like small problems to overcome. It will all work out.
I'm glad I've recently ordered one last ICE vehicle before making the switch. I would just rather wait until everything has been sorted out and pretty much all new cars are EV. Too much money for something so new. You guys can do all of the testing and trials and errors and I'll sit back for a while and see how it all plays out.
Wake me up when everyone gets this stuff sorted, when battery electric vehicles can be charged within 5 minutes, and there is some way that renters and people in multi-family housing can "charge at home." But I won't join your ELECTRIC REVOLUTION until this nonsensical "early adopter" period moves into working, useful personal vehicles that people in this country can actually afford.
this video seems premature. its literally nonexistent yet.....just wait.
People have questions now and there's lots of misinfo spreading so it's worth clearing up what we do know now. Absolutely will be more details next year.
@@iMaxPattenI'm really curious about CCS charging at Tesla and am glad the OoS team is making this content to share what's happening.
Tftc
I have a Hyundai ioniq 5 2023 I have an adapter for Tesla level 2. Tried to use it on Super Charger. Didn't work