Charging A Toyota At A Tesla Supercharger Isn't All Sunshine And Roses
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2023
- Tesla opening their charging network to other EVs does NOT confer a "Tesla-like charging experience" to other EVs, it simply allows you to have a typical CCS experience at a station with a Tesla logo and you don't need a Ford to try it.
If you're lucky enough to have a "Magic Dock" location near you, you can charge any EV with a CCS connector (pretty much everything except a Leaf). But... It doesn't always go according to plan. Here's what I found when I charged a 2023 BZ4X
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This is a nice split-view widescreen thing you've got going. It somehow looks better than is has before, so whatever you're doing -- good job.
Woohoo! We are trying a few new things. Glad you liked it!
@@EVBuyersGuide What dashcam are you using?
Hi Alex. Just tested my Cadillac Lyriq at the local Tesla SuperCharger with the MagicDock this past weekend. All the same physical challenges (even worse with that car), but didn't have any of the connection issues you experienced. Worked first time, and started charging in seconds. 131kW max seen, but I started at relatively high SOC of 40% so more is likely possible on that car - even if the adapter is limited to 350A as has been said. Thanks again for all the great content, and look forward to more charging videos with the MagicDock and other vehicles.
LOVE THE SPLIT SCREEN .. ITS NICE TO JUST GO FOR A RIDE AND SEE WHERE WE ARE GOING WHILE YOU CHAT 😁...HAVE A BEAUTIFUL SUNDAY EVERYONE ✌️
Thanks alex for showing us the experience and challenges of this, great content!
great content as always!
Great video as always, thanks Alex
What camera did you use for the drive? and I s it a car dash cam because I really need a new one and the split view of your drive is amazing.
I travel a lot, across the country several months out of the year and I could really really use whatever setup you have going.
I think this video is a great example of why the Tesla Supercharger experience only really works with a Tesla. And it doesn't even allow for a typical CCS experience with its short cables, bad user experience (only an app!) and compatibility issues you don't find at regular CCS stations.
Tesla making the cables longer is also going to mean that these will become heavier, and less easy to handle. Something so many Tesla owners are proud of today. Shorter cables mean less heat losses, easier to cool and less weight dragging over the ground.
And as an eGMP car owner, I know I should just avoid them, unless it is an emergency, until the day they are converted to 1000V
Having a Ford Lightning I would just pull up on the other side of the supercharger and try to plug it in because the orientation would be correct being on the left side of the parking spot just a thought I've had. I'm not in California or NY so I can't try it
Probably the only way the other ccs services make maintenance on their own chargers. BTW that "abyss" between the steering wheel and the small screen is huge.
At 3:57 you are pointing at a Destination Charger (level 2). There are only 2 Superchargers with Magic Docks in California. Soctts Valley and Placerville.
Thanks for the test. I’m going to stick to EVgo for charging my Bolt EUV; much better user experience with Autocharge+ and appropriately sized cables.
Where I live, there is another layout of Tesla charging stations, similar to gas station design. No problem at all charging any vehicle. It saved my day several times then other charges were occupied or out of order. (Also, in Europe, even Tesla use CCS.) Tesla charging is not the cheapest, but plenty of stalls, almost never busy and just works. I didn't have your problems with my Bz4x. Other charging brands was a hazzle, but Tesla charging just worked. Country: Sweden, Europe.
I recently took an almost 3,000 mile trip at about 350 miles a day. Driving this car would have required stopping for hours to recharge and having to drive miles out of the way(and wasting a lot of time). In Nebraska there are places where there are no charging stations within the range of the car. I will stick with ICE.
I connected to Scotts Valley charger 4D last weekend, with ID4 backed in, handshake was extremely fast first try (faster than EA)
Alex, Do you ever ask yourself whether subscribers can handle the whole, unvarnished, possibly ugly truth before you confront us with it? 🤔😉😂
My subs are bright people, of course they can!
@@EVBuyersGuide 😁
I have an ioniq 2020 ev, with the 38kwh battery and the max fast charge rate of about 45kw. Access to superchargers would be a godsend for me
3:41 fyi through the adapter the sc is limited to 350A however, so 140kw ish.
Tesla won't comment officially as to the current cap on the magic dock connector. CCS goes to 500A, Tesla goes above 500. The issue would be finding an EV that can support high current / low voltage outside of a Tesla. Tesla is fairly unique in still using lower nominal voltages in their EVs.
i have 300000 miles on battery that is wild
Was that other guy with the camera with you? I wonder if we're going to see a post online with someone saying "Look at this jerk with a BZ4X taking up two parking spots!!!"
I bet that other guy was thinking “look at that hideous bz4x.😂 My Tesla has nothing to worry about”
nope....
Fanboys are too busy praying to Elon to notice other vehicles ;)
He was from bloomberg doing a story on the Magic Dock LOL
This guy is good I didn’t know my ev6 gt has peak power at 55 and up soc
Hey what camera are u using?
Tesla recently added non-Tesla support to the 8 chargers in Placerville, CA.
Please choose a format. Very strange with the paragraph next to the video, while you explain how the charging works…
Legacy EV's will be able to charge just like a Tesla, after they finally outfit their cars in '24,'25,2026 with actual NACS connectors. It is coming.
Wish I had known the Scotts Valley Supercharger site had the magic dock. I was just there on Tuesday with my new EV6 and would have given it a try. I drive down to Scotts Valley from Palo Alto from time to time to visit Ashby’s Confections for their amazing chocolates. We’ll worth the drive.
My understanding for the EV6, the charging will not be the fastest because the EV6 is 800V vs the 400V system for Superchargers.
I drive the EV6 in Europe. Tesla opened for us in June 2022. I have tried it a couple times, but I could only get about 65 kw and it’s more expensive than the competitors so no real advantage. We have the same issue with the cable length.
You don't want to charge your EV6 there, because of the DC-DC conversion, Tesla caps things at about 50 kW. The Kia can upconvert far more than 50kW but there is an incompatibility with Tesla's software that they are working on.
Every EV car manufacturer not named Tesla should be working with all the DC fast charging companies and trying to help out in anyway they can. EA, EVGO etc. If they don't succeed, you don't succeed.
Actually that needs to include Tesla too.... Since they use non-Tesla chargers.... and Ford will be using their network....
Would you get this car if it cost $390 per month for a 3 year lease?
I tried a new Magic Dock location in Colorado with our Ioniq 5. Max charge power was 42 kW.
Have you heard about the challenges between the Kia/Hyundai architecture and Superchargers? -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuide Yes I have heard and read about it. I know some Ioniq 5 owners have reported close to 100 kw at Magic Dock locations. At some point I will try again to see if anything has changed.
So I watched this video and the whole time I said one thing to myself. This is what Ford wants to be part of? Crazy.
But ford "wouldn't be part of this" if you can just plug in and charge like a tesla.
Informative video Alex. Is Toyota being excessively conservative with charging speed on the "Busy Forks" to prevent battery degradation issues from surfacing, thus improving durability of the battery pack? 😮
Toyota will not survive this decade.
I think that's the case here. I wonder how this will work out for them long-term. Battery degradation is quite acceptable on other EVs, meanwhile road tripping with the BZ4X is just nigh impossible due to the conservative charging.
@@ultrastoat3298 Don't be so sure of that. They are massive in other markets. Every other car in Indonesia is a Toyota.
It is possible, but they won't say for sure. Toyota is incredibly conservative so that could be a factor. They have said publicly that their design goal is to have less battery loss over 10 years than average.
@@EVBuyersGuideToyota recently released updated software in Europe that improves charging speed and removes some of the conservatism around miles remaining. That was after Toyota was hit with major criticism by your European peers. Do you know anyone at Toyota USA who can confirm whether the update will (eventually) be released for U.S. bZ4Xs?
NACS on car will be the same experience with respect to the handshake.
I know one day this will all be solved, but videos like this are exactly why I got a Tesla Model Y Long Range. 250 kW at its peak, I plug in and it charges. I don't have to fumble with credit cards. I don't have to cross my fingers and hope it works. I can go from 10-80% in 27 minutes. Stop, charge, go to the bathroom, get a bite to eat and come out ready to go. Five years from now when charging is much better, it'll allow people to buy other brands. But right now, it's kind of sketchy driving more than 100 miles from your home in an EV that's not a Tesla.
I’ve noticed some EVs will only fast charge when “on” and others will only fast charge when “off”
At 3:51 you said you could charge at 240kW on non-Tesla EV at a Supercharger, but that is incorrect. The Magic Dock is limited to 350 Amps. So at 500V you'd only get 175kW.
I'm amazed we haven't seen a spike in muggings at these charging stations. Extremely wealthy demographic, most likely unarmed, and their cars are literally immobile for anywhere between 15 minutes to an hour.
This car is sitting in parking lots of Toyota dealership for more than 180 days and now being offered 15K -20k discount on MSRP of $52k . What was Toyota really thinking when pricing this car . Oh and forgot this car only has a range of 220 miles
If they think the majority of the motoring world is going to deal with this parking/cable arrangement and app-based charging format then they haven't spent enough time watching the line of cars fill up at Costco; most people are incapable of even that simple task.
I totally agree. It takes longer to charge an EV than an regular “fuel” car. If one has problems interfacing with the charging equipment (only to find out that they are incompatible), acceptance of EV’s is going to be minimal.
Game over for Tesla!
Every supercharger is CCS2 in Australia because every tesla is CCS2
Maybe you should go to a Toyota Supercharger station.
There's a reason parking lots are where the majority of accident occur. Pays to back in to your parking space. Of course, you need good backup cameras. Pulling forward out of a parking space gives you clear vision to proceed. Yes, I have Teslas now, but I started with Nissan Leafs so I'm familiar with front port charging.
I rarely back into a space, prefer to back out of it. And no, you don't need good cameras or sensors. How do you think we did it before cars came equipped with those? And your Tesla, with its long hood gives no guarantee of good vision when pulling away.
Yes, backing in is a lot safer, large corporations even promote it, oh and that's how Jack Reacher parks.
What do you think is safer: Backing into a parking space you _know_ is empty, or backing into a travelway you _hope_ is clear.
That’s why Tesla calls this stage a pilot program. I’m sure the V4 Tesla units will address these challenges.
Will all Tesla Supercharger stations open to other, CCS connector EVs? Is the "Magic Dock" being installed at all locations nationally?
Only about 12 stations now, a few in California and New York. It may take them years to install the new V4 chargers with longer cables and more adapters.
3500 by the end of 2024 was mentioned when they first opened.
I get the feeling being a Non-Tesla charging at a Teslas charger is a less than ideal Tesla experience!
It's even a less than ideal CCS experience. The only positives are: plenty of stalls, and most will work.
The V4 super chargers will have longer cables. But who knows when that will happen.
Longer yes, long... Not quite. The V4s Tesla has shown have 10 foot cords which would still be a bit too short here.
@@EVBuyersGuide you are the first I’ve heard say they are still too short. But hopefully if they are “too short here” they will make the cables longer when V4 is installed in North America. What we can agree on is it will be awhile before V4 super chargers are in great quantity in North America.
@@Beatles4Sale. I have no basis for this, but I suspect the rollout will be fairly quick in major areas if the V4 station is needed for the upcoming truck launch. Tesla is so secretive that we don't know if they are starting the ramp up in production or if it'll be a slow roll., but I suspect it'll be faster than EA rolling out their new stations.
what about charging a prius prime at a tesla charger? 😅😅😅
I understand that there's a BZ4X firmware update coming that will boost charging and range. Also the BZ4X charge rate isn't that bad and is much better than a Bolt/Bolt EUV, Kona/Niro EV and about the same as the base Mach-E and ID-4.
Firmware Update? OTA of course. Very well!
You should go ahead and go ahead and go ahead
How much did it cost to charge?
More than Electrify America stations apparently.
@@Trades46 Yes, at least the ones in upstate NY are. If you get the Tesla monthly plan, they are on par however. But doesn't make sense to do that until more SuperChargers have the MagicDocks - and longer cords.
It looks like Clear Sky and Yews. I'll learn to avoid this. Thank you.
I’ve always wondered why don’t ev stations have extendable cords for charging where you can pull them and they extend far, kind of like a measuring tape. Is it that hard to make one?
Longer cables have more resistance and cost.
Yes. Every inch is a lot more cost, and every mechanical system will break over time. Short cables, no mechanisms.
True, extension cords over 10 ft, cost too much and have too much resistance...
I’ve always wondered why we can't be more like the USSR..... Freedom to choose is overrated....
Where did I put my Elon doll, that I need to pray to?
True on cost but I think that this kind of investment would potentially draw in more evs and in the end result Tesla will make more money
naveenthemachine: yes it would....
but it would be contrary to the Elon minimalist mantra.... so I wouldn't bet on it... but occasionally he does something that defies his narrative....
So who knows???
I am good with electrified America
This vehicle is quite possibly the saddest excuse for an EV. Toyota, I expected better. Great video as always Alex!
They won’t get better. They’re done as a brand
Just buy their hybrid/PHEV, they will never interested in pure EV
Subjective. I’m really happy with my AWD limited. Will be even happier once the USA gets the major software update
So you're praising and buying for decades a plastic car advertised as stated of the art premium LOLOL who literally is fall in to pieces , and your trying to bash a Toyota ( a we'll executed car according the MUMBO JUMBO sustainable LIES &INNUENDOS ) , sapere aude!!
@@naveenthemachine Learn 2 READ and STOP being bamboozled by advertising brainwashing propaganda,ZZZZZZZZOMBIESZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Hi Alex - thanks much for the split screen view and the very detailed explanation - much appreciated. As for those Tesla owners, they are in for a rude awakening over the next few years as a bunch of EV newbies show up and try to charge their non-Tesla vehicles at stations like this one. The whole public charging situation is obviously not ready for prime time and, with manufacturers plunging ahead with EV offerings, I fully expect a lot more stranded drivers with empty battery packs on the road or in charging stations in the years ahead.
glad i got a tesla
I feel horrible for anybody who purchases a bz4x/ solterra, also alex, do you think GM will follow fords decision to start shipping their cars w NACS
I think all of us would feel bad if we bought those.
I feel horrible for Ford EV owners
@@nc3826why would you feel bad for Ford owners? Because the next Gen will be better?
@@nc3826 are you ok? You seem to have inhaled a shocking amount of exhaust fumes.
Great video. Ugh.... why can't they standardize this. Also if I had to sit there for an hour+ to charge up, I would not be a happy camper.
You typically charge at home and when using a DCFC you only charge long enough to get to the next charger and/or your destination.
W Rags: listen to D Munro, that's exactly right.
It is standardized, the standard is called CCS.
be grateful we are even allowing peasants in their non-teslas at our superchargers
Of course, a Teslatap is an AC charge adapter.
You would be surprised what I've seen out there...
Tesla Is Tesla Not any Other Car
This shows why EV's are so far from main stream. In the time spent trying to get this damn thing to charge, I could have had my tank filled and been on my way.
and $70 lighter.
How many Gas cars have their filler at the front? just wondering...
Easy to see what e-cars continue to have acceptance challenges when on the road charging is so slow and “buggy”.
I'd just stick to my Tesla for a long while~😉
This is a total turn-off as far as all EVs are concerned. There's just no comparison with the ease (and speed) of just filling up the gas tank.
Just imagine if you came up with a way of transferring energy fast in a couple of minutes that stored for a long time so you did not need huge power lines to the charge station.. Maybe in liquid form.
and the product of that energy is a gas that's bad for your lungs and the people around you, also one of the reasons why global warming exist
I know the next generation of ev chargers is 1600v because I see them talking about 1800v charge controllers at work. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the big fancy stations going in quietly have this
As a retired engineer that worked with designing generators that go onto generator sets, I don’t relish being around such higher power input into an EV. The amount of energy in 50 kW is phenomenal. Now kW charging levels are pushing 350 kW up to 1000 kW. I am really concerned about a catastrophe failure at an EV charging station. It would be nice to know what agency is regulating the safety requirements (if any) for these EV charging stations. As usual, great video.
Reminds me of the time when I was filling my ICE car and the automatic shut off failed. Gas just kept pouring out down the side of my car onto the ground as I quickly shut it off. I was thinking, that stuff is flammable...
Superchargers are not so fluid now that they have to support more than just their own built and tested EVs, are they?
The fix has to be that manufacturers have to send at least one model of every new EV they make to charging manufacturers at least 6 months prior to releasing them to the public, so they can be thoroughly tried and tested. If the EV manufacturers change anything charging wise during those 6 months, then that's on them and the customers will be informed as such.
This goes to show that the CCS standard.... is just a set of protocols that are used radically different, from one automaker's EV to another....
But Europe has found a way to use it effectively.... Apparently they require more testing....
If the US govt had any backbone they would have legislated CCS to be the standard like Europe did years back.
Of course now that Ford stupidly signed with Tesla, the opportunity to do this has now come and gone. The only losers here are the end users/consumers.
Keep smoking whatever you’re on. Reality ain’t for you.
This is the future? No thank you
Are Toyota and Tesla frenemies? Toyota need to swallow the EV pill and really get serious. Looks like they did not learn the piano black interior is prone to fingerprints. Thanks Alex for the video.
You would think they play nicer together after Toyota bought Elon technology for the RAV4 EV....
But it's hard to stretch a ridiculously short cable....
@@nc3826 totally agree. Toyota has no choice now as they scramble for a piece in the EV space. It's funny how the tables have turned.
They won’t. Toyotas done. They had a good run but now other brands are better. They’re no longer relevant
Thanks for showing Ford EV owners, the great experience they can look forward to.....
Ford is working with Tesla and going to use their plug standard instead of ccs. I imagine that all new ford EVs will have the charge door in the same location as Tesla.
Ford will offer an extender cord.
@@CAINtheBULL where did you see this?
As Derek mentioned, Ford is working with Tesla for a seem less experience.
@@CAINtheBULL nobody knows if the Tesla-Ford adapter will be just a portable magic dock or include a cable length to fit Fords better.
I know that I should care about this, but I don’t care if Toyota can charge at a Tesla supercharger.
Just buy a Tesla, no problem!
I wonder how mad Tesla drivers will be when I have to take up 3 charging spots to charge my Mach-E, and then have to initiate the charge 5 times to even get started.
Who knows, maybe it'll work out, but at first blush this seems like a very half-assed effort by Tesla that will cause a lot of blowback from their real consumer base.
WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR SUPERCHARGERS, TESLA BOIS
Did you even watch the video?
@@TheGOF Yes, did you?
This is honestly a bit of a clown show (thank you Alex for the accompanying music) and it really all boils down to Tesla doing the absolute minimum needed to say to the US govt "hey we are an open standard too, now gimme EV infrastructure $$$" while having 0 considerations for actual users of non-Tesla EVs.
Ford and Tesla now have an agreement to share the Tesla supercharger network. Magicdock stations seem to be a test program.
Tesla controls the IP and the network.... is only doing it to get government NEVI money....
That's not sharing.....
That will leave more Superchargers available for Tesla vehicles!
If I had an ice or hybrid car I could go just around the corner to the gas station, put the nozzle in the gas tank receptor, swipe my credit card, wait about 5 - 10 minutes to fill, and I'm ready to go back home.... I guess EVs have a ways to go for practicality and ease of use.
Troll, get back to me when ICEVs, can fill up at home....
@@nc3826 Exactly! These ICE heads think they’re so clever until one day they wake up and Discover 0MG all the gas stations are closed for lack of business, because solar, wind, and Hydroelectricity are going to be the power sources of choice, as all new and old buildings are outfitted with solar panels, back up, battery power walls, and heat pumps using geothermal to heat our Businesses and Homes, no need to refine all that crude oil into gasoline, because that stuff won’t be worth spit, and they won’t be able to give it away, because nobody needs it.
So these ICE heads are literally riding on top of a freaking gas bomb and they think they’re smart, when, in fact, they’re all going by way of the dinosaurs and we all know what happened to them.
Oh, by the way! Imagine if you’re stuck on a busy highway, because some knucklehead decided to run his car into a bridge abutment and the highway cleanup is going to take at least an hour or two before you can get going again and if you’re driving a Tesla, you just recline your seat and punch up, Netflix, Hulu or UA-cam and just chill with the air conditioning on if it’s summertime and it’s 100° outside or it’s winter time, and it’s 0° outside, just imagine what these ICE heads are going to be thinking, because you try that with a gas car and you might not wake up as they warn you not to run your cars engine continuously in a situation like that because of the build up of carbon monoxide poison inside of your car and they warn you not to do that just because it is so dangerous.
So yeah, I love it when these ICE heads try comparing ICE cars to BEV’s! Not even close, as it’s like comparing apples to oranges, and it also makes you wonder how much do they really know about BEV’s versus an ICE car?
If I had to do that even once I'd get rid of the car; what a horrendous process. This is a major roadblock to EV adaptation.
For a Tesla owner, you back in, plugin and ~10 seconds later you're charging, and your CC on file is billed; It's easier than using a gas pump. Most other charging stations allow the use of an RFID card to start the charge after you plug in or they can be set up to use plug and charge which is similar to how Tesla does it for Tesla cars.
Hope the front wheels don’t fall off 😅
This is the very definition of half-ass effort, by Tesla. Virtually every non-Tesla EV out there has the charging port somewhere else other than driver rear, and Tesla knows this. And yet, they add the magic dock while making zero change to the charging cable. I know they are smart enough to know this makes it impossible for non-Teslas to use their stations. So at best, this is a half ass effort to get a piece of the EV infrastructure bill, and nothing more.
I think it was more of a beta test to check out compatibility issues, hence the small number of magicdock stations.
I mean, it’s a v1 very limited trial… so no, none of those things. I hate Tesla, but the charging they offer in the US beats the pants off anyone else.
Yup. All Musk is after is the sweet govt subsidy money. This is incredibly half heart attempt by Tesla and it shows.
Of course, the fanboys will claim the problem lies with other OEMs not playing ball with Tesla and instead of using CCS, but that of itself is just pure deflection.
Of course DCFC is more seamless for a Monopoly..... This post proves it becomes crap, once the networks opened up...
Except for fanboys pretending not to be one.... Enjoy the Kool-Aid....
@@nc3826 Exactly. The easiest use case for an interface design is when you are manufacturing the devices on both sides. Once non-Teslas start using Superchargers I think we are going to see their reliability falling to about the same level as the dedicated CCS chargers using random vehicles. People occasionally still have trouble pumping gas, especially if you consider the 'lock the nozzle on and walk away' scenario.
Short story. Do not buy a Toyota EV.
Man, isn’t that faster than a tesla?
no. def not
Just buy a Tesla. Works all the time everytime.
"Works all the time everytime"......
As long as you drink the Kool-Aid first....
Just buy a Tesla and get it over with!
Just buy a tesla.
And definitely don’t even look at the bz4x
this EV vehicle is a joke, why is it even getting any attention
good excuse to buy a Tesla