V double blocks T9 and 98 and even though he took an eccentric bluff line I do think this comes into consideration. I think caller underestimated how much the suits factor in to V's logic. I'd like to know the suits of the 99.
As played, they have to bluff river, but the big mistake is the flop and the turn because you have much worse hands you can bluff with here that you don’t need to turn a hand that will be good a lot of the time on the flop in a bluff
Interesting hand (they always are, love this series). I'd agree 99 just seems unlikely for most players in the UTG spot, trying to bluff out 3 other players multiway just seems very courageous. I think in this spot I'd be putting villain on QQ on the turn, based on all the analysis QQ seems like the hand the only overpair that doesn't 4 bet, but still needs to protect a good hand and raise on the flop. From this, seeing a Q hit the river would have sent me running even more than the prospects of UTG playing T9 and hitting. I guess I just underestimate players' willingness to bluff in multiway.
I think this line from villain is quite excellent at some frequency (you can’t do it always). Hero says suits are irrelevant, but that makes me think that villain is a stronger player than hero. Blocking 89s as villain is critical here because that is the primary 8x that hero can show up with. So if there are red 8s on the flop for example, black 9s are an excellent bluff candidate (also a good way to control the frequency). Furthermore, the other advantage of this play, is that since we sometimes just have the best hand here, we protect our equity against light over calls from the players behind. We have a great triple barrel candidate that puts over pairs in jail, and we have a bluff on this river where it’s almost impossible to have any. Hero has to fold river here, but really well played by villain.
Agree with this comment 100%, pretty trivial fold on the river for hero. Interesting comment from Bart at the end regarding what Villain would do on a complete blank.
The problem I have running this bluff is that you are piling the pot already before making your bluff hand. On the turn, he bets while knowing that he will make his bluff hand 20% of the time, and he said he puts our hero on an overpair, which means half of the times he makes his hand a Q will come giving the hero another possible full house which never folds.
Sick spot, but I think Hero is getting to the river at close to the bottom of his range that takes this line and can make the fold knowing he'll have better hands to call with.
Villain raised 99 on the flop trying to see if Hero had Ace high or a big pair. He flats the $600 and then the $1000 so at this point its safe to say hero has a Jack. Over pair would have reraised the flop or even the turn bets. People not giving villain credit but its a good play especially with that river and holding 9s (same if holding 10s).
Hero is never rerausing flop with A-A-QQ only thing that folds is bluffs. Even the straight draws would have to probably fold. Like Bart said the guy was using his 9-9and 10-10 hoping to fill up or straight card comes in for future streets
Credit to V??. Could H had 9T? JJ? . Also, what is V repping with such a small raise into 3 opponents?😂 . BTW, once H called flop raise, he certainly had better hand than V. Smart to Cbet a brick turn?? A: hell no! Then, after such horrible play. V continued it as a DESPERATE BLUFF on river. Now, after it worked, thanks to H awful play, people supposed to give him a credit?? Not me.
I don’t think it was a horrible fold by hero though but yes pre flop play was horrible. I don’t think AA-QQ should be re raising flop always though. Idk I also don’t play these stakes so what do I know😂😂
Stopped at 15:30. I would fold, but I disagree with what hands foe has here, there are going to be some bluffs that you beat, but it is going to be a HARD call, and likely losing over time. The two players behind him, are much shorter, and do not seem to be good players, this means UTG can have pair from 88-TT, and any suited connectors in that range. I call them Nut Miners, they are like set miners, but also understand when they block the nuts, and use that in their bluffing range. They also don't mind weaker calling players behind them, because when they make or block the nuts, they get more money. As played, I'd rule out 88, as these players don't raise when they have the absolute nuts, but 99 and TT, and 98 (especially 9c8c) will play this way, as they block you from having the nuts, and they could have T9 as well. They will use position and nut advantage to bet 3 streets, because they understand it is very hard to call when you can't have the nuts. As player stated, "what do I beat here?" You only beat 99 and TT, and even knowing that, it is a very hard call. BTW, if you fold, and foe shows 99 or TT, next time, they will likely actually have the nuts.
Here’s why villain was able to execute this so quickly from the flop; a down Bet serves two purposes, to keep your opponent wide and to protect yourself from being raised when your opponent has a nutted hand. Villain quickly realized what hero was doing especially being a 3bet pot and knew his 99 was essentially as good as 72o. The down bet is still the correct play, however I will frequently raise down Bet cbets precisely because I know what my opponent is attempting to achieve with them
Yep, and this is why if I’m hero here I prefer either checking the flop for pot control / to allow worse hands to bluff or value own themselves, or I would bet 50-66% pot to reduce the likelihood of getting bluff raised and having to make more difficult decisions down the line. Let’s say hero bets $375-$450 on the flop, is V going to now risk $1200 on the flop as a bluff raise and bluff jam turn? Maybe, but it has to be much less likely vs the down cbet size which allows the villain to bluff a much smaller size and more easily put the hero in a tough spot.
@@nuklearwinter2892 i dont really like a halfpot bet here though because V is likely to call with all of his pairs and then bet turn if checked to, basically accidentally bluffing
I know. If I took his line. I would have probably checked back turn and hoped the River came with the straight card. This guy went for it. He has heart , I’ll give the villain that
What draw? 9T would not played flop nor turn the way V played. So: straight draw is out of question. . It's not that V played his hand great. It's that H played his hand awfully on 3 streets.
@@knighnp I'd either 3-bet huge or fold flop. No call. UTG cannot represent 9T here. He either has QQ or higher (this includes T8, 98, A8). KJ also could play that way, however, I would not count on it (too risky). So: calling here makes no sense to me. . Myself, If I do not know V profile, I'd folded and never looked back. I agree: "awful" play is an awful term I used. Perhaps, "wrong" play would be more appropriate. Hope, this helps.
I'd rather call 200 with TT/99 than T9(open ended). This deep I'm trying to make full houses above the pair on the board not straights on a paired board. I'm peeling in position vs the raiser with 2 outs all day, those outs are highly valuable.
This is a situation where I like to lead out on a clean turn. If you get raised again you're almost certainly beat. But checking there if a guy is bluffing will likely continue to bluff taking the check as weakness.
I see your point, with a turn bet you almost always will know where you are at. Problem is I think in the long term the most profitable play here is to just fold to any big turn bet or hero call all the way, depending on your oponent. The fold would be cheaper than the turn bet and the hero call makes you a lot of money when you are correct. Is good to hero call because you block JJ.
Yeah. Bart is still far better than I will ever be, but I think he has a blind spot because of the meme "call turn, you gotta call river." This is one of those runnouts where I don't think you can do so on a clean runout (obviously this was probably one of the worst rivers and I think hero was correct to fold). I think when H calls turn, he should be expecting to close his eyes and call most clean rivers. Especially at these stakes, people will fire their bluffs all the way to the end. That said, 99 was kind of surprising as a call on that flop, I do agree with Bart that I would find the muck more often than not, but it can depend on the player.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I said as much above. My point was Bart himself said that even if the river ran out clean and opponent fired on the river, he was probably finding a fold. Not every board should be "call turn, you should be calling river on bricks" but I feel like this should have been one of them. V clearly realizes our range, and took full advantage.
99 is pretty sick here as a multiway bluff, id want to have at least 1 98s blocking suit, then maybe TT and 77 could get in there with exactly the suits that block all T8s and 87s, would give you some pretty unexpected bluffs in exactly this situation, that being said, im folding here with hero all day
If UTG opened with suited connectors, he should be calling most of the time. The two players behind him already just flatted, you can surmise that they'd just flat again. There are good implied pot odds for UTG to call. Sure, he'd be OOP vs the two behind him, but he still has POS over the hero here. I can see how AA could even slowplay preflop there due to position over hero. Postflop, villian's range collapses if he calls with 2 players behind him. The guys behind might even fold AJ once villian calls. Villian is repping a stronger hand than guys behind him. Villian's call on flop is super strong and a good place for floating. It's an advanced play.
Knowing he’s a for profit winning player I would’ve been more tempted to call the river bet. Because good players are capable of making big bluffs like this whereas most people aren’t advanced enough to make this kind of bluff
Made a similar play yesterday with 88 bc I blocked the nut straight in a 3-bet pot and donked into the aggressor in the river. Super weird spots for sure lol
Bluff-jam river would be the sickest bluff of all time - has QQ/JJ full and no one would ever find this bluff. Theoretically 8s and straights could fold, along with bluffs, although the pot odds would be ridiculous and it likely wouldn't work often
What about transforming hero's hand in to a a bluff and check shove? We clearly have more QQ, JJ, AA and KK. We also block AA and JJ that might flat pre... Can we make Villain fold trips or occasional 9T? Just a thought.
9T doesnt play turn like that. 8x doesnt play river like that. Opponent is saying he has a full house or better, either a bluff or a monster hand that never folds. The only play here is to fold turn or hero call all the way.
Why does 8x suited not make sense for raise and flat? Also, 9T suited can make sense. Player dependent as others have said. Both are okay post-flop multi-way. Okay hand you “beat” is AJ. Along those lines, 99 blocks and can rep those hands.
The fact that you've already been recognized by 10 people and said that those people are going to remember that situation which literally ties you right back to it?!?!
Value bluff.. villain did a helluva job! But I think if villain got 9 10 suited he’ll fold preflop when you 3bet.. pretty sure I’ll call, but its tough!
Sometimes you're just supposed to get bluffed. Good fold it's really hard for villain to have a bluff and you have plenty of better hands... JJ, QQ, KK, AA, T9s... AJs is really low in your range so you can fold without getting exploited. If it were me I'd over-fold this spot as an exploit because most players simply have no bluffs here. I know I don't! :D
If we agree that V is only taking this line (for value) with JJ, QQ, 8x and T9 then isn’t AJ arguably a better bluffcatcher than AA/KK due to the fact it blocks both JJ and A8s?
This a a PLO bluff applied to NLH imo. Great blockers to raise the flop in PLO, but here it’s too adventurous as your bit blockers matter less in a 2 card format.
If villain isn't going to have an 8 here based on preflop action, then why would he have 109? My guess is that villain would have alot of 87s with this line and he's not giving up regardless the river card.
I don't like this bluff by villain, because how do you balance this with value? Like Bart says, given the muttiway dynamic, he has no 8x and probably no JJ. Does he even overcall T9s preflop? Even if he does, he's saturated with bluffs on the flop and turn. Given the title of the video, I'd say it's a lucky river for villain, but the logic doesn't add up. Now maybe he's relying on hero not having 8x either, but if both ranges are pretty depleted in trips then it seems like level 1 logic.
Its not a lucky river honestly. 9T never plays turn like that, there is no reason to be scared or a Q. Its either a turn fold or a hero call all the way. I dont like the bluff either, specially since the villain bluffed as early as the flop on a 4 way pot. His real luck was no one having an overpair, JJ or 8x. Because doesnt hands are never folding. Villain used the fact that it was a 4 way pot to create fear and it worked because no one had more than 1 pair. But if you call turn here you always need to call river.
3bet size seems rather small to me, especially with stacks at a minimum of $1500 and the $10k stack. Clearly having all 3 players call isn’t ideal when out of position. I would have raised to at least $200-225 pre. Being out of position sucks and I don’t want to play a bloated multi-way pot oop. Also would have cbet larger on the flop or simply checked for pot control / let someone bluff or value bet worse. I’m curious how a solver would play this post flop, very interesting hand.
The $200 flop bet set yourself up for the bluff. Should’ve just checked vs just $200 bet😮. If you call the $1k on turn no matter what the river is the $2k bet from the (play for profit winning player) 3-1 on River call I think is necessary against that particular player with his stack . He just simply out played you from position that he stole when he raised the flop bet because he knew the 2 flatters were weak. Risky but it worked out for him. That’s why he’s a winning player 😅
Is it just me or when the villain should’ve all in on the river if he had it, but instead he bet half pot 2k with 1500 something behind it was a live poker tell that obviously he was bluffing? How many instances have you seen the exact same scenario play out like this?
I'm in disagreement here. I don't see the queen as a scare card because I'm never thinking T/9 is taking this line. Maybe I'm dead wrong but my initial gut on seeing the river queen was positive until both the caller and Bart said otherwise.
Pre is a pure call from the BB. So caller started the hand off poorly. I don't have much experience with a gazillion people seeing the flop but I do like callers sizing though
Oh god... yesterday I flop a boat with J8.. I bet a guy is about to call and the dealer takes the board away not seeing him. Then the guy goes you know what it's ok I'll fold... cost me between $12 and $400
I guess turning 99 into a bleff 10% of the time and fold 90% of the time on the flop c bet is a good play. Then if you get called and have to show 99 as a bleff..You're gonna end up printing money at the end of the day.
Honestly this is a classic "fold turn or call it down" situation. There are no value hands that bet that big on turn other than 8x or JJ. Those hands are never checking and you just have to take the L if you decide to call. The ONLY semi bluff is 9-10s. But I think is super unlikely because of the call preflop and the big turn bet. There is no reason to bet that big on the turn on such a dry board (very easy to hero call) and you could also be drawing dead against JJ with hero trapping. Conclusion is: 95% of the time this is a made hand on the turn or a complete bluff. Therefore the Q doesnt change anything. Once you call turn you need to call river, no matter the price. Personally I would have folded on the turn 60% of the time and hero called all the way to the river the other 40%.
Yikes! I don't think a turn call is profitable against the pool and a river call would be lighting money on fire. If it's a sick bluff, god bless him. Well played. Next hand.
I think is the same tbh. No one is calling here for value (maybe 22, but super unlikely to have). You either are folding, going all in with a full house or better or calling with a bluff catcher. In all those scenarios the play is the same for a shove or a bet. But depending on the player and the game this could be a tell.
On the turn…. Before seeing the river…. I fold always. Maths and psychology be damned. Ok, I see the river and villain action. Before reveal…. I claim turn fold was correct! Ok…. I was wrong….. maybe that is why I’m a loosing player? Only Mr Postel could have won this hand!!!!!
99, TT is an auto fold even if you got a complete donk in the bb continuation betting you sigh and fold cuz of the 2 donks behind with 2 cards each 🤣 Plus you block big blinds obvious draws with those pp
maybe you’re thinking too high-level but this seems like incomplete logic to me On the flop hero, that’s a tiny amount that does not represent top pair or better - it is very likely that a deep Stack good player will not believe that hero will have or defend against a hand that represents strength 99 could very well be saying this is a shit flop bet with Ace King - And feels like he has the maid hand maybe even believing he is best This is not exactly, high stakes poker, and this mentality persists across even winning players It matches up with how this played out and something that should be considered at this level
Your only scared of 8 in case villain was bluffing to see where you are since you bet small you can call his raise on the flop but lead on the turn to see where he is and he would have folded 99 and 9/10 cause if you check on the turn he has to bet with bluffs if he has 9/10 he can check on the turn for free card and blast on the river and you have to fold with Q on the river. From villains perspective you missed the flop I'm sure he was shock to see you had AJ. Sure villain could have had QQ but not likely since he didn't reraise with people behind.
I’m never folding here. No value hand on flop and turn plays like this. And the only reasonable draws T9 suited don’t pick up equity on the turn with the rainbow and likely shut down most of the time. So this river is a call. If the turn was club, diamond , or spade , then I fold river more. Maybe always.
I agree with you, but the raise on the flop on a 4 way 3 bet pot is just so strong i might fold turn. But if I call turn I'm never ever folding river. This is never 9T because of the huge turn bet. Which means is either a flop made hand like 8x or JJ or a complete bluff. The river bet doesnt change anything. If oponent has full house or better than he has, nothing to be done.
POKER CAN HUMBLE ANYONE AND AT ANY TIME. JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU OWN THE DECK YOU LOSE ITTT!!!! FOUR OF 2'S WILL PUNK YOU AND LEAVE YOU COLD IN THE DUST EVEN WITH POCKET AA'S IN THE HOLE.
I think that if everyone at the table watches this channel, this guy was silly to try to hide his identity. He's toast. They will all recognize the hand and the guy. They will especially love hearing things like that he thought the suits didn't matter, and that QQ didn't cross his mind. They'll also take it as a reminder that he shifts gears into passive/weak mode at the first sign of strength, even after hitting a flop and betting small. Speaking of which, after betting small and being raised small on the flop, those are both "seeing where I'm at" type actions. A 3-bet there would give villain his answer, he'd fold. The chance that he'd call down is low, but the chance that he'd turn his hand into a bluff after that is almost zero. He's not 4-betting without JJ or 88, and he'd be in extreme pain even with QQ or KK, mild pain with AA. You're in a good spot to represent JJ, having one in your hand. Folding out 99, TT, QQ, and some KK, is a fair enough deal. I'm shocked that AA and KK were mentioned as possibilities for villain, but not QQ. For me, QQ would be near the top of the list of my worries. After hero's 3-bet squeeze, QQ isn't always going to 4-bet UTG when there are 3 guys who might then 5-bet him. AA and KK are more likely to 4-bet, even at the risk of blowing away the flatters, because the flatters have position on victim, and hero doesn't.
Maybe it's my age that's not responsive to the algorithm but i just don't like these new thumbnails. They're actually off-putting which is weird because I otherwise love this channel.
This is the type of bluff is just completely unnecessary and was completely bailed out by a scary river. The Hero knew exactly what he was doing and got unlucky playing against a player with a severe case of Fancy-play syndrome. If that river was anything that wasn’t a Q, 7 or 9 the villain gonna get called down here.
Yeah the line really just seems like he decided "he 3 bet, he shouldn't have an 8, I'm going after him" and didn't consider that it doesn't take an 8 to call down here. An overpair is probably never folding on any sort of decent runout and AJ might not even to 3 streets of pressure if the river is anything below a 7. Bluffing here is one thing, but doing it with a hand that beats basically every hand that's going to fold to the bluff anyway is just plain stupid.
The opponent is not gonna bluff on a brick if he thinks a little. I mean u're trying to make fold an overpair on J8824 type of board, good luck with that.
@@Mathemagical55 Zero. There are zero bluff spots on this board when he cannot know what hero has. Hero has 3:1 to call. He is highly probably going to call, given the action.
@@TomRauhe For there to be zero bluffs the prior action would need to be extremely polarizing in some way, or the board highly unusual, and neither applies here. Villain is repping 9T so 99 and TT are the best bluffs.
V double blocks T9 and 98 and even though he took an eccentric bluff line I do think this comes into consideration. I think caller underestimated how much the suits factor in to V's logic. I'd like to know the suits of the 99.
As played, they have to bluff river, but the big mistake is the flop and the turn because you have much worse hands you can bluff with here that you don’t need to turn a hand that will be good a lot of the time on the flop in a bluff
@@timothynguyen4446when hero C-bets into 4 people it seems extremely unlikely for 99 to be good.
Interesting hand (they always are, love this series). I'd agree 99 just seems unlikely for most players in the UTG spot, trying to bluff out 3 other players multiway just seems very courageous. I think in this spot I'd be putting villain on QQ on the turn, based on all the analysis QQ seems like the hand the only overpair that doesn't 4 bet, but still needs to protect a good hand and raise on the flop. From this, seeing a Q hit the river would have sent me running even more than the prospects of UTG playing T9 and hitting. I guess I just underestimate players' willingness to bluff in multiway.
I think this line from villain is quite excellent at some frequency (you can’t do it always). Hero says suits are irrelevant, but that makes me think that villain is a stronger player than hero. Blocking 89s as villain is critical here because that is the primary 8x that hero can show up with. So if there are red 8s on the flop for example, black 9s are an excellent bluff candidate (also a good way to control the frequency). Furthermore, the other advantage of this play, is that since we sometimes just have the best hand here, we protect our equity against light over calls from the players behind. We have a great triple barrel candidate that puts over pairs in jail, and we have a bluff on this river where it’s almost impossible to have any. Hero has to fold river here, but really well played by villain.
Agree with this comment 100%, pretty trivial fold on the river for hero. Interesting comment from Bart at the end regarding what Villain would do on a complete blank.
Great comment, and agree this bluff by villani is very high IQ vs average grinding reg
The problem I have running this bluff is that you are piling the pot already before making your bluff hand. On the turn, he bets while knowing that he will make his bluff hand 20% of the time, and he said he puts our hero on an overpair, which means half of the times he makes his hand a Q will come giving the hero another possible full house which never folds.
Sick spot, but I think Hero is getting to the river at close to the bottom of his range that takes this line and can make the fold knowing he'll have better hands to call with.
Villain raised 99 on the flop trying to see if Hero had Ace high or a big pair. He flats the $600 and then the $1000 so at this point its safe to say hero has a Jack. Over pair would have reraised the flop or even the turn bets. People not giving villain credit but its a good play especially with that river and holding 9s (same if holding 10s).
Hero is never rerausing flop with A-A-QQ only thing that folds is bluffs. Even the straight draws would have to probably fold. Like Bart said the guy was using his 9-9and 10-10 hoping to fill up or straight card comes in for future streets
Credit to V??. Could H had 9T? JJ?
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Also, what is V repping with such a small raise into 3 opponents?😂
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BTW, once H called flop raise, he certainly had better hand than V. Smart to Cbet a brick turn?? A: hell no!
Then, after such horrible play. V continued it as a DESPERATE BLUFF on river. Now, after it worked, thanks to H awful play, people supposed to give him a credit??
Not me.
I don’t think it was a horrible fold by hero though but yes pre flop play was horrible. I don’t think AA-QQ should be re raising flop always though. Idk I also don’t play these stakes so what do I know😂😂
Stopped at 15:30. I would fold, but I disagree with what hands foe has here, there are going to be some bluffs that you beat, but it is going to be a HARD call, and likely losing over time.
The two players behind him, are much shorter, and do not seem to be good players, this means UTG can have pair from 88-TT, and any suited connectors in that range. I call them Nut Miners, they are like set miners, but also understand when they block the nuts, and use that in their bluffing range. They also don't mind weaker calling players behind them, because when they make or block the nuts, they get more money.
As played, I'd rule out 88, as these players don't raise when they have the absolute nuts, but 99 and TT, and 98 (especially 9c8c) will play this way, as they block you from having the nuts, and they could have T9 as well. They will use position and nut advantage to bet 3 streets, because they understand it is very hard to call when you can't have the nuts. As player stated, "what do I beat here?" You only beat 99 and TT, and even knowing that, it is a very hard call.
BTW, if you fold, and foe shows 99 or TT, next time, they will likely actually have the nuts.
Pocket queens is a big possibility.
Here’s why villain was able to execute this so quickly from the flop; a down Bet serves two purposes, to keep your opponent wide and to protect yourself from being raised when your opponent has a nutted hand.
Villain quickly realized what hero was doing especially being a 3bet pot and knew his 99 was essentially as good as 72o.
The down bet is still the correct play, however I will frequently raise down Bet cbets precisely because I know what my opponent is attempting to achieve with them
Yep, and this is why if I’m hero here I prefer either checking the flop for pot control / to allow worse hands to bluff or value own themselves, or I would bet 50-66% pot to reduce the likelihood of getting bluff raised and having to make more difficult decisions down the line.
Let’s say hero bets $375-$450 on the flop, is V going to now risk $1200 on the flop as a bluff raise and bluff jam turn? Maybe, but it has to be much less likely vs the down cbet size which allows the villain to bluff a much smaller size and more easily put the hero in a tough spot.
@@nuklearwinter2892 i dont really like a halfpot bet here though because V is likely to call with all of his pairs and then bet turn if checked to, basically accidentally bluffing
Thank God for the villain the draw he was pretending to have got there 😆
Bro your name is Ryan... why is your English so god damn terrible? Fix your sentence.
I know. If I took his line. I would have probably checked back turn and hoped the River came with the straight card. This guy went for it. He has heart , I’ll give the villain that
What draw? 9T would not played flop nor turn the way V played. So: straight draw is out of question.
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It's not that V played his hand great. It's that H played his hand awfully on 3 streets.
@@pot_kivach160 how would you have played that hand then man? How did he play it awful, would you have three bet the flop?
@@knighnp I'd either 3-bet huge or fold flop. No call. UTG cannot represent 9T here. He either has QQ or higher (this includes T8, 98, A8). KJ also could play that way, however, I would not count on it (too risky). So: calling here makes no sense to me.
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Myself, If I do not know V profile, I'd folded and never looked back.
I agree: "awful" play is an awful term I used. Perhaps, "wrong" play would be more appropriate.
Hope, this helps.
I'd rather call 200 with TT/99 than T9(open ended). This deep I'm trying to make full houses above the pair on the board not straights on a paired board. I'm peeling in position vs the raiser with 2 outs all day, those outs are highly valuable.
This is a situation where I like to lead out on a clean turn. If you get raised again you're almost certainly beat. But checking there if a guy is bluffing will likely continue to bluff taking the check as weakness.
I see your point, with a turn bet you almost always will know where you are at. Problem is I think in the long term the most profitable play here is to just fold to any big turn bet or hero call all the way, depending on your oponent. The fold would be cheaper than the turn bet and the hero call makes you a lot of money when you are correct. Is good to hero call because you block JJ.
Yeah. Bart is still far better than I will ever be, but I think he has a blind spot because of the meme "call turn, you gotta call river." This is one of those runnouts where I don't think you can do so on a clean runout (obviously this was probably one of the worst rivers and I think hero was correct to fold). I think when H calls turn, he should be expecting to close his eyes and call most clean rivers. Especially at these stakes, people will fire their bluffs all the way to the end.
That said, 99 was kind of surprising as a call on that flop, I do agree with Bart that I would find the muck more often than not, but it can depend on the player.
@@ZeraLordthe Q wasn’t a clean river though. It completed the obvious draw.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I said as much above. My point was Bart himself said that even if the river ran out clean and opponent fired on the river, he was probably finding a fold.
Not every board should be "call turn, you should be calling river on bricks" but I feel like this should have been one of them. V clearly realizes our range, and took full advantage.
@@ZeraLord sorry yeah hadn’t fully understood your comment.
Yeah I think a brick river should be a call.
99 is pretty sick here as a multiway bluff, id want to have at least 1 98s blocking suit, then maybe TT and 77 could get in there with exactly the suits that block all T8s and 87s, would give you some pretty unexpected bluffs in exactly this situation, that being said, im folding here with hero all day
If UTG opened with suited connectors, he should be calling most of the time. The two players behind him already just flatted, you can surmise that they'd just flat again. There are good implied pot odds for UTG to call. Sure, he'd be OOP vs the two behind him, but he still has POS over the hero here. I can see how AA could even slowplay preflop there due to position over hero.
Postflop, villian's range collapses if he calls with 2 players behind him. The guys behind might even fold AJ once villian calls. Villian is repping a stronger hand than guys behind him. Villian's call on flop is super strong and a good place for floating. It's an advanced play.
I have done that bluff alot. Paired middle cards it is easy to rep the straight
You sure
@@katebucks2640 it scary but doable and makes some sense.
Knowing he’s a for profit winning player I would’ve been more tempted to call the river bet. Because good players are capable of making big bluffs like this whereas most people aren’t advanced enough to make this kind of bluff
This happeneds quite often especially online. Always happends on paired flops. Villian put you on AK or something and didn’t want to get out drawn.
Lol what? No way AK calls the turn. Most combos probably don’t even C-bet the flop into 4 people.
V put him on AK and other 2 opponents on nothing?? V played crap. Funny is that crap worked. This time, though.
Very well played by the villain. Can't be mad at your fold.
Made a similar play yesterday with 88 bc I blocked the nut straight in a 3-bet pot and donked into the aggressor in the river. Super weird spots for sure lol
Bluff-jam river would be the sickest bluff of all time - has QQ/JJ full and no one would ever find this bluff. Theoretically 8s and straights could fold, along with bluffs, although the pot odds would be ridiculous and it likely wouldn't work often
What about transforming hero's hand in to a a bluff and check shove? We clearly have more QQ, JJ, AA and KK. We also block AA and JJ that might flat pre... Can we make Villain fold trips or occasional 9T? Just a thought.
A check shove on the river would only be $1200 into $7800. Trips won’t fold, KK AA probably won’t let go there either
9T doesnt play turn like that. 8x doesnt play river like that. Opponent is saying he has a full house or better, either a bluff or a monster hand that never folds. The only play here is to fold turn or hero call all the way.
Why does 8x suited not make sense for raise and flat? Also, 9T suited can make sense. Player dependent as others have said. Both are okay post-flop multi-way. Okay hand you “beat” is AJ. Along those lines, 99 blocks and can rep those hands.
I would have checked the flop and then play defensively. Second choice would be a bigger c-bet on flop.
The fact that you've already been recognized by 10 people and said that those people are going to remember that situation which literally ties you right back to it?!?!
Value bluff.. villain did a helluva job! But I think if villain got 9 10 suited he’ll fold preflop when you 3bet.. pretty sure I’ll call, but its tough!
Sometimes you're just supposed to get bluffed. Good fold it's really hard for villain to have a bluff and you have plenty of better hands... JJ, QQ, KK, AA, T9s... AJs is really low in your range so you can fold without getting exploited. If it were me I'd over-fold this spot as an exploit because most players simply have no bluffs here. I know I don't! :D
If we agree that V is only taking this line (for value) with JJ, QQ, 8x and T9 then isn’t AJ arguably a better bluffcatcher than AA/KK due to the fact it blocks both JJ and A8s?
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj It's a good point.
This a a PLO bluff applied to NLH imo. Great blockers to raise the flop in PLO, but here it’s too adventurous as your bit blockers matter less in a 2 card format.
If villain isn't going to have an 8 here based on preflop action, then why would he have 109? My guess is that villain would have alot of 87s with this line and he's not giving up regardless the river card.
I didn't get that either
UTG should pretty much never be calling a 3 bet with 78 with 2 people behind
pre flop*
The power of being in position
People are getting better at NLHE I find myself calling down a lot more In low stakes cash games these days and being good
Dam that's a big home game.
Good call. Was a tricky one to figure out
Nicely played. I think you win/successfully bluffcatch on most other rivers
I don't like this bluff by villain, because how do you balance this with value? Like Bart says, given the muttiway dynamic, he has no 8x and probably no JJ. Does he even overcall T9s preflop? Even if he does, he's saturated with bluffs on the flop and turn. Given the title of the video, I'd say it's a lucky river for villain, but the logic doesn't add up. Now maybe he's relying on hero not having 8x either, but if both ranges are pretty depleted in trips then it seems like level 1 logic.
Its not a lucky river honestly. 9T never plays turn like that, there is no reason to be scared or a Q. Its either a turn fold or a hero call all the way. I dont like the bluff either, specially since the villain bluffed as early as the flop on a 4 way pot. His real luck was no one having an overpair, JJ or 8x. Because doesnt hands are never folding. Villain used the fact that it was a 4 way pot to create fear and it worked because no one had more than 1 pair. But if you call turn here you always need to call river.
3bet size seems rather small to me, especially with stacks at a minimum of $1500 and the $10k stack.
Clearly having all 3 players call isn’t ideal when out of position.
I would have raised to at least $200-225 pre. Being out of position sucks and I don’t want to play a bloated multi-way pot oop.
Also would have cbet larger on the flop or simply checked for pot control / let someone bluff or value bet worse.
I’m curious how a solver would play this post flop, very interesting hand.
Every time you say, "They really shouldn't have X here," I laugh and laugh and laugh. You should see the hands I see.
The $200 flop bet set yourself up for the bluff. Should’ve just checked vs just $200 bet😮. If you call the $1k on turn no matter what the river is the $2k bet from the (play for profit winning player) 3-1 on River call I think is necessary against that particular player with his stack . He just simply out played you from position that he stole when he raised the flop bet because he knew the 2 flatters were weak. Risky but it worked out for him. That’s why he’s a winning player 😅
Is it just me or when the villain should’ve all in on the river if he had it, but instead he bet half pot 2k with 1500 something behind it was a live poker tell that obviously he was bluffing? How many instances have you seen the exact same scenario play out like this?
I'm in disagreement here. I don't see the queen as a scare card because I'm never thinking T/9 is taking this line. Maybe I'm dead wrong but my initial gut on seeing the river queen was positive until both the caller and Bart said otherwise.
This is a very player dependent/image dependent kinda hand.
How does villain have 9T, but not 89? I thought the river worked in villains favor here....but it should have been irrelevant.
Feel better Bart, good luck at WSOP♠️♥️♣️♦️
Also Qeens are not a pure 4bet from UTG pre
Pre is a pure call from the BB. So caller started the hand off poorly. I don't have much experience with a gazillion people seeing the flop but I do like callers sizing though
Oh god... yesterday I flop a boat with J8.. I bet a guy is about to call and the dealer takes the board away not seeing him. Then the guy goes you know what it's ok I'll fold... cost me between $12 and $400
I guess turning 99 into a bleff 10% of the time and fold 90% of the time on the flop c bet is a good play. Then if you get called and have to show 99 as a bleff..You're gonna end up printing money at the end of the day.
Honestly this is a classic "fold turn or call it down" situation. There are no value hands that bet that big on turn other than 8x or JJ. Those hands are never checking and you just have to take the L if you decide to call. The ONLY semi bluff is 9-10s. But I think is super unlikely because of the call preflop and the big turn bet. There is no reason to bet that big on the turn on such a dry board (very easy to hero call) and you could also be drawing dead against JJ with hero trapping. Conclusion is: 95% of the time this is a made hand on the turn or a complete bluff. Therefore the Q doesnt change anything. Once you call turn you need to call river, no matter the price. Personally I would have folded on the turn 60% of the time and hero called all the way to the river the other 40%.
Yikes! I don't think a turn call is profitable against the pool and a river call would be lighting money on fire. If it's a sick bluff, god bless him. Well played. Next hand.
New to poker but does anyone else feel that the 2k bet instead of a jam is stronger?
I think is the same tbh. No one is calling here for value (maybe 22, but super unlikely to have). You either are folding, going all in with a full house or better or calling with a bluff catcher. In all those scenarios the play is the same for a shove or a bet. But depending on the player and the game this could be a tell.
Yes it is very strong and V knew what he was doing
The river almost never goes check, check. Maybe 5% of the time.
Against this particular player making crazy plays it changes things greatly.
If he has 10/9 suited he can have 8s in his range??
On the turn…. Before seeing the river…. I fold always. Maths and psychology be damned.
Ok, I see the river and villain action.
Before reveal…. I claim turn fold was correct!
Ok…. I was wrong….. maybe that is why I’m a loosing player?
Only Mr Postel could have won this hand!!!!!
guess he figures 99 is huge removal to hero having an 8 in his hand and can go for it
99, TT is an auto fold even if you got a complete donk in the bb continuation betting you sigh and fold cuz of the 2 donks behind with 2 cards each 🤣
Plus you block big blinds obvious draws with those pp
maybe you’re thinking too high-level but this seems like incomplete logic to me
On the flop hero, that’s a tiny amount that does not represent top pair or better - it is very likely that a deep Stack good player will not believe that hero will have or defend against a hand that represents strength
99 could very well be saying this is a shit flop bet with Ace King - And feels like he has the maid hand maybe even believing he is best
This is not exactly, high stakes poker, and this mentality persists across even winning players
It matches up with how this played out and something that should be considered at this level
Your only scared of 8 in case villain was bluffing to see where you are since you bet small you can call his raise on the flop but lead on the turn to see where he is and he would have folded 99 and 9/10 cause if you check on the turn he has to bet with bluffs if he has 9/10 he can check on the turn for free card and blast on the river and you have to fold with Q on the river. From villains perspective you missed the flop I'm sure he was shock to see you had AJ. Sure villain could have had QQ but not likely since he didn't reraise with people behind.
Hero should be folding here at an extremely high frequency because very few players are capable of making this bluff
get money in on the turn? If V has AA or KK then so be it
Suits aren’t irrelevant when talking about villains hand
I would think UTG has 9 - 10 suited
I’m never folding here. No value hand on flop and turn plays like this. And the only reasonable draws T9 suited don’t pick up equity on the turn with the rainbow and likely shut down most of the time. So this river is a call.
If the turn was club, diamond , or spade , then I fold river more. Maybe always.
I agree with you, but the raise on the flop on a 4 way 3 bet pot is just so strong i might fold turn. But if I call turn I'm never ever folding river. This is never 9T because of the huge turn bet. Which means is either a flop made hand like 8x or JJ or a complete bluff. The river bet doesnt change anything. If oponent has full house or better than he has, nothing to be done.
@@pedro.gandra I agree with you it’s never T9. And no value hand on flop plays this way. I mean you said the same thing I said.
I can get behind a call with AJ here and not AA-KK because you block JJ
1:40 Bart, I am soo surprised you are OK with sizing!!?
POKER CAN HUMBLE ANYONE AND AT ANY TIME. JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU OWN THE DECK YOU LOSE ITTT!!!!
FOUR OF 2'S WILL PUNK YOU AND LEAVE YOU COLD IN THE DUST EVEN WITH POCKET AA'S IN THE HOLE.
I think that if everyone at the table watches this channel, this guy was silly to try to hide his identity. He's toast. They will all recognize the hand and the guy. They will especially love hearing things like that he thought the suits didn't matter, and that QQ didn't cross his mind. They'll also take it as a reminder that he shifts gears into passive/weak mode at the first sign of strength, even after hitting a flop and betting small.
Speaking of which, after betting small and being raised small on the flop, those are both "seeing where I'm at" type actions. A 3-bet there would give villain his answer, he'd fold. The chance that he'd call down is low, but the chance that he'd turn his hand into a bluff after that is almost zero. He's not 4-betting without JJ or 88, and he'd be in extreme pain even with QQ or KK, mild pain with AA. You're in a good spot to represent JJ, having one in your hand. Folding out 99, TT, QQ, and some KK, is a fair enough deal.
I'm shocked that AA and KK were mentioned as possibilities for villain, but not QQ. For me, QQ would be near the top of the list of my worries. After hero's 3-bet squeeze, QQ isn't always going to 4-bet UTG when there are 3 guys who might then 5-bet him. AA and KK are more likely to 4-bet, even at the risk of blowing away the flatters, because the flatters have position on victim, and hero doesn't.
Maybe it's my age that's not responsive to the algorithm but i just don't like these new thumbnails. They're actually off-putting which is weird because I otherwise love this channel.
You're against an aggro opponent you have TPTK and 8s don't make sense. You have to make the crying call.
Why 8s don't make sense? And 99s do? If none make sense, then what does??
This is the type of bluff is just completely unnecessary and was completely bailed out by a scary river. The Hero knew exactly what he was doing and got unlucky playing against a player with a severe case of Fancy-play syndrome. If that river was anything that wasn’t a Q, 7 or 9 the villain gonna get called down here.
Yeah the line really just seems like he decided "he 3 bet, he shouldn't have an 8, I'm going after him" and didn't consider that it doesn't take an 8 to call down here. An overpair is probably never folding on any sort of decent runout and AJ might not even to 3 streets of pressure if the river is anything below a 7. Bluffing here is one thing, but doing it with a hand that beats basically every hand that's going to fold to the bluff anyway is just plain stupid.
@@Jermo484 but me double nut blockerzzz!
The opponent is not gonna bluff on a brick if he thinks a little. I mean u're trying to make fold an overpair on J8824 type of board, good luck with that.
Very stupid bluff from him, period. He loses to almost all value that never folds except your hand. You could have Aces, Kings, Quuens, Jacks or an 8.
What hands should villain be bluffing with then?
@@Mathemagical55 Zero. There are zero bluff spots on this board when he cannot know what hero has. Hero has 3:1 to call. He is highly probably going to call, given the action.
@@TomRauhe For there to be zero bluffs the prior action would need to be extremely polarizing in some way, or the board highly unusual, and neither applies here. Villain is repping 9T so 99 and TT are the best bluffs.
@@Mathemagical55 Problem is the hero can have literally everything here. And most of everything is never folding a 3:1.
A lot of people burn money guy that's where we're watching this channel maybe to stop doing it I don't know 😁🤣
first. whatup bart
#1 .. to be correct !!! so its me :P
99 AS A BLUFF NICE MOVE!!