As Keco's self proclaimed best friend (one of), I need to step in here (as he said in that Tobey interview 😂). Firstly, let me say, Keco's videos are unique in this community because they are honest, direct, and influential in terms of creating larger, more productive conversations. I also greatly admire his willingness to stand up for what he believes to be in the best interest of the larger collecting community. That said, let me explain why I think he's off-base here. For those who have not already discounted my opinion due to some sort of perceived InArt allegiance ("shilling"), please allow me to explain the logical fallacy at play here. Let me be clear, I am fan of InArt's, and I do work with them, but I am always as objective as I can be. InArt is not responsible for what other businesses do, and they're extremely unlikely to be privy to their negotiations with licensors. Could they be lying about the $1000 Warner Bros. imposed limit on a Joaquin Joker figure? Of course they COULD be, but it doesn't make any sense for them to do so. If they were in fact lying about this $1000 imposed minimum, why wouldn't they just sell ONE Murray Franklin Joker for $1000 to maximize their profits? Instead, they provided you with 2 figures for $1100-$1200 shipped through Kit, and $1700 for 4 figures. They packed a ton of value into their offerings to give you just that, value. Why would they add this extra cost if they were nefariously trying to screw collectors over to maximize profits? No one knows the truth except InArt, but the idea that InArt somehow strong-armed collectors into doing something they didn't want to do is silly. These are luxury items, and by their nature, are completely non-essential purchases. You don't NEED to buy a 1:6 scale Joaquin Joker figure. It's not essential to your well-being and thus InArt, nor any other collectible company can coerce you to spend money you don't want to. If collectors felt the price was too steep and they just wanted the Murray Franklin Joker, they can either pass, buy a loose copy off another collector, or some other alternative. The blame deflecting for a collector now regretting their purchase because Hot Toys announced a cheaper alternative is unfair, to any company in InArt's position. It's also entirely possible that the licensing restrictions changed, or Hot Toys simply negotiated more favorable terms. I don't think people realize how influential Sideshow Collectibles is as a collectible company. They are probably the biggest collectible distributor on the planet and they are extremely well connected. They probably are the ones who negotiated with Warner Bros for the license and simply extended it to Hot Toys, as has been reported with the 1:6 Marvel and Star Wars licenses. A new film is coming out, and Warner Bros. probably negotiated different terms with Hot Toys. This is a far more likely scenario than InArt lying. Let me leave you with an analogy: Keco comes to me and asks me should he buy the Beast Kingdom Iron Throne. I say yes because it's the cheapest I've ever seen it at $180 and Amazon told me they won't lower the price further. I tell him to use my affiliate link to help the channel and he obliges. Keco buys the throne, and 2 weeks later Beast Kingdom announces a diecast throne it's being sold for $140. Keco subsequently is mad at me because he says I lied to him. Is this fair logic? I couldn't project Beast Kingdom would make another one...why would InArt worry about what other companies MIGHT do after they already announced their version? EDIT: Wanted to contribute one additional thought. The statement that "InArt owes us answers" is silly. InArt doesn't owe any collector who pre-ordered their products an explanation of their business negotiations with licensors. This entitled mindset villainizes InArt based on the premise that they communicated with us in the first place. Maybe this is why Hot Toys doesn't talk to anyone, because this is how people act (entitled). Collectors pre-ordered a product because they felt it was a good quality product and it offered good value. Now a perceivably better value comes along and collectors are entitled to InArt explaining their private business negotiations and pricing models...? No.
yeah sorry dude, you’re defending the indefensible. You’re getting Harry Potter soon and most of us have had radio silence on our Batman while InArt release two more figures and send them to their “influencers” and make hobby lobby bases. InArt blows, I’m done.
I love Will and value his opinion. My favorite thing about our friendship (as we've stated numerous times) is our ability to have TOTALLY different views, share them respectfully, and then switch gears to argue about Team Green vs Team Black in HOTD. ✊🏼
Will, the point here is beyond the values Inart provide. I agree with you that there is tremendous value in paying 1100 for 2 rooted hair figures. The math IS mathing. However, what irks folks here is Inart imply they have no choice. 1000 is the requirement. The way they frame it as they are "doing the collectors a favour" by providing more stuff plus the quality. What they should have said is that each contract is unique. In their situation, 1000 is required. It is understandable since Inart is a new company. They probably have less leverage compared to Hottoys. Totally understandable. To add to that, Inart should state that other companies could sell for less since every contract is different. This just demonstrates that Inart PR is terrible. Their messaging is bad. Their post-release update is bad. (Yes I'm one of the customers who is still waiting for the Inart Batman)
I agree that this release calls into question Inart’s claims about that price point. It’s really weird and now I think a lot of people are stuck with 3-4 figures from those sets they probably don’t really want. That said, just comparing the quality, I do think the Inart red suit Joker looks significantly better than what Hot Toys just showed so I don’t think those who ordered it lost the battle except when it comes to how badly their wallets were hit.
I have a feeling you aren't going to let Will forget that he called the Kenobi version the definitive Darth Vader lol. This new one looks really damn amazing
I think people that bought the standard edition of that Vader will be salty, but it still has swap out parts with the deluxe. Still, this new announcement puts that one to shame in terms of battle damage.
No one should listen to Will. He overhypes figures constantly and declares that everything is a "definitive" of "grail" for "true" fans. I would be pissed so many times if I'd listem to that guy...
I think today just showcases how powerful and influential Hot Toys is as a company. It just flexed all over its competitors (clearly in its contract negotiations for Phoenix Joker), and just rendered a new release still coming to hands of collectors practically obsolete overnight (BD Vader). Hot Toys doesn't just break the rules, it sets its own rules for the game.
I mean given how long they have been in the game and the position they have achieved I am not surprised. U could almost say they are the game at this point. The upcoming artisan Black Widow has a mag base. Wonder what inspired them to do that? 🤔I said some people are start calling InArt liars with Hot Toys releasing this Joker. What's funny is its totally possible Hot Toys had the license way back when the movie was released but never utilized it until now. Not like they haven't done shit like this before. But hey competition. Lets see how InArt responds. U aren't going to win by saying well we were told this. Keep moving forward and crank out some bangers. Hell a rep on JNDs live stream said you could get the license for Nurse Joker but they don't think people want it. What stats they are looking at I have no clue. Meanwhile John from InArt said Nurse Joker was a hard no go from WB. Totally possible JND and InArt would told two different things are one is wrong. Dunno. We may never know. Personally I dont care. This is a hobby not something I need to survive. I will go with whatever company offers the best product imo that I want.
Hot Toys: “It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message.” They really fired shots with this Joker announcement! I’m not a huge fan of this version either way, but I can certainly understand and empathize with what’s going on here and why so many are upset with Inart right now. Legit my first thought when I saw this was, “wait, didn’t they say they couldn’t do a single release cause of licensor restrictions?? BS.” I hope we get those answers as I have four preorders with them. Anyways, great video as always Keco!! Keep it up
Keep bringing the fire and passion Keco! Not even on the topic of the Joker but in any other industry a company like Inart would not exist with their supply chain issues or shipping delays. Its like in sports, an athlete's best ability is availability. They don't have availability.
Another good straight talking video. I didn't pre-order the Phoenix Joker purely because I didn't want to spend that money on multiple Jokers, I love the movie but I only really like the red suit look so I passed. I think the Inart is much better and if it was a movie I adored I wouldn't be too upset because as it stands I would feel I've gotten the best product. However, what's to stop Hot Toys from getting The Lord Of The Rings license and doing those figures as it's a beloved trilogy and I think competition is needed there.
@@KeCoCollects absolutely, I think Inart have gotten good products out that look better than Hot Toys like their TDK Joker is still better than Hot Toys second effort in my opinion. Hot Toys could have the edge on Lord Of The Rings because Inart are doing it first but I'm wondering if it's a licence they'd go for. I could see Hot Toys picking up LOTR and Harry Potter possibly.
So, it's clear it's one of two scenarios. 1) WB lowered the threshold, allowing HTs to come in at a lower price due to their volume, or just lowered it to give out the license since WB loves to do that. This also means JND is around the corner. 2) In business, there's the LTV:CAC ratio (lifetime value to customer acquisition cost), which basically means how much money I can make if I spend $1. So, if their LTV:CAC is a 1:20 for example, then they can be aggressive and have Joker be a loss leader to 1) Compete with InArt and cause negative PR, 2) Bring new collectors into the market, 3) Provide collectors with more value, or 4) all the reasons listed. PS It's silly to think that InArt would really create a $1,000 paywall knowing they didn't sign an exclusivity agreement, which means anyone can come and get the license as well.
In all likelihood, it's probably both. It's fairly obvious that Hot Toys are not taking kindly to the recent competition from other new companies who have tried to muscle in on their market superiority (and thereby probably causing them to have to increase R&D costs to maintain their leadership role in the market, the artisan and hono lines for example) and also, WB has probably reduced the threshold for the Joker license as a way to build anticipation for the Joker sequel.
I think it's even simpler - WB has different tiers of licenses and does not want different companies crossing over one another and creating too much competition in the same price or scale/size category. John of Inart alluded to this in Will's stream. He basically said WB would only give Inart a license (and not THE license) with the requirements to sell a premium version. I think the obvious way to read between the lines here (and the way John may have even communicated it) is that Hot Toys already has THE 1/6 scale global license from WB for their typical size/quality/cost range and WB didn't want Inart eating in to and/or wasn't allowed to let them eat in to it due to existing license agreements that HT and WB had. This happens literally everywhere when it comes to companies and licenses. I feel strongly that no one was deceitful and even when John explained it he did so truthfully based on the limitations and requirements that WB imposed on all licensors in each of their respective categories.
@@Sivart321 Yeah, so basically scenerio one. Different volume, different tiers, etc. I agree. I agree that InArt was not deceitful. You (collectors) can dislike them for any other reason, sure, but this shouldn't be one of them.
Someone needs to superimpose Keco's videos over the hackers messages - on the tv screens - that feature in the John Carpenter classic, They Live. Stellar work Keco, you're fast becoming the Morpheus of the figure collecting community.
Great video as always Keco! Just wanted to let you know your Suicide Squad Harley fell backwards against the Jokers jail cell. Wouldn't want paint rub.
I saw Will's video and had some other discussion about it with some folks and I've heard possible explanations but at the end of the day, nobody really knows why this is set up how it is. I agree they definitely should say something. I do think, like Will was saying, that they weren't trying to take everyone for a ride...simply because of everything that they offered for the price point of that 4 pack. Of course, to your point, how many people would buy just straight up Arthur Fleck by himself? Probably not a whole lot. So I guess value can be argued, but they did still have to make 4 different figures...well, 3 and maybe a quarter...since the bathroom scene and the hospital scene were really just the difference of a head sculpt, shoes, and lab coat.
If you look at the Hot Toy though, they clearly went all out. It has seamless arms for no real reason. The base is a real backdrop that lights up and everything, rooted hair. plus the curtains and the chair which Hot Toys would normally never do to cut costs. They obviously purposefully padded this thing to make it more expensive because of the license. This thing will be crazy expensive.
Im a huge InArt supporter, but these are great questions. Now, what i would think the situation is, Hot Toys has a ton of pull with licenses. Case in point, they blocked Joost from selling the Catwoman in the US. I don't think InArt would purposely put this figure behind a large paywall when sales would have been much higher to offer the red suit version only. I liked this movie a lot, but not enough for me to spend over $1000 on it and have so many figures. Therefore, this is one of only two InArt releases so far I haven't ordered. I will be purchasing the HT version because I only need one figure for this. I truly think this is a HT planned out move to damage InArt's reputation and orders. Great move on their part. I just want great figures from both companies and dont care who's providing them. I have the Artisan TDK Joker on order and think it will be better than InArt's, that I have the sculpted version of. Maybe InArt should stop with the DC figures and just focus on franchises like LOTR, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, and others in that relm. Great video KeCo
I want a rooted winter soldier from Winter Soldier. That's one of my favorite films for the next artisan. But to get what this video is about and what you were talking about, i agree 100 percent. I already canceled mine. After the way the joker dropped so much from the prototype,( the 1st one ) the eyes , the makeup everything else . I'm still waiting for my inart batman, the batch system crap, the lies and everything else I feel I won't be preordering anything from them anymore. We have 2 kids, and like you said, we have to watch our fun money, and my fun money isn't going towards inart anymore. I'll stick with hot toys like i have the last 13 years ( last I love my inart joker, I'm just making a point how much it lost and looks completely different and adding that to the list of crap 💩 they pulled )
It’s no longer that lame line “wait for inart” anymore. It’s wait for HOT TOYS 🔥 And boy am I glad I did with Phoenix’s Joker. You know, the one we all wanted without a 15 joker paywall of figures we don’t want in order to get this one. 🥴🤣
@@WillFoxificationsorry dude I love your channel but I don’t see how you can defend this shambles of a company anymore. You’re literally receiving Harry soon and most of us still have gotten radio silence on our Batman for ages.. Meanwhile they’re making hobby lobby bases and releasing Aragorn and Harry and getting them to their VIPs and UA-camrs. After I receive my Batman I’m fully done with InArt. Their QC is dog shit unless you’re a VIP or influencer.. the amount of bent cowl ears I have seen is stupid. Some guy received his Batman recently with no zips attached at the back. So now InArt may send him the zippers, but he now has to glue them onto a $500 figure himself? Abysmal company, InArt BLOWS.
I personally don't blame you for reacting this way this is a lot of money at the end of the day and we as collectors want to purchase but spend our money wisely and try to find good value in what were buying in the products but seeing things like this is why and I realized it when hot toys brought out there he ledgers Joker that is basically a anything you can do we can try and do and make it a little bit cheaper which is the main reason why I am not buying any 6 scale figures from this new company not that they're not good not that the detail is very amazing and incredible but because I know especially if it's something that I want personally hot toys will try and copy it and make their own for a whole lot cheaper I love this community I love these figures but I'm not going bankruptcy on them
Great video as always! Glad to have you on the silence/average collector side! Not trying to knock those "First Batch reviewer/influence" channel, but its really pointless for them to get it first because their batch always get the top quality, and after reviewing it, half of years later people starting to get their figure and end up having QC issues and missing stuff. its felt like a bait and switch.
I want to believe that something involving licensing has changed, or HT was able to negotiate. I dont regret getting the 4 pack from Inart, as i see the value of both sets. But if they lied then thats not a good business move. Happy to see you calling out anything thats sus. I know you'd call out anything HT does too.
@@KeCoCollects I know! I hate that people associate you as the "Inart hater" when you just call it like you see it. Everybody has to take a side now, when at the end of the day, I just want good figures. Something HT and IA deliver on.
@Ajxskyline I wouldn't exactly say it's not warranted though. I love Inart, but the one thing that can't be fully defended is their speed. Once you get the figures, they are awesome. But distribution sucks.
@@Ajxskyline because they do silly things. I equally call out hot toys, they just do less of it (that we can see) - the repaints are silly, etc. BS regardless of who it comes from is still BS
If u pay attention on the headsculpt The inart one is far more better and accurate To be honest i have 0 hype with the hot toys one Even my custom the joker look far better that hot toys one (headsculpt made by creg)
One JND representative said there is no ban on the Nurse Joker , now this . On top of the blatant lie John said about “ who decides who to get the influencer batch “ also exposed 😅. It seems InArt lie a lot , on top of the slow shipping and tons of QC complains by more and more people . InArt has a problem .
shots fired !!!!!! man I be thinking the samething. I stand with you !!! where’s the figures !!!! makes me more upset I really think they are superior and really want the figure
@WillFoxification On a positive note. Will, I just purchased the Beast Kingdom Iron Throne from Amazon. Couldn't pass up $184 for a 1/6 Iron Throne. I absolutely love it. ended up getting 272/3000. It's definitely a centerpiece. Now I just need a good Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons 1/6 figure lmao
I'm just disappointed we’re not getting other IP's. Competition is good but there are so many other figures we would go nuts for and were just getting duplicates. Well, if you missed out on Inart then this is a great chance to get this Joker. Also, since Inart doesn't have distribution in the states it makes it harder to obtain those figures. Can't argue with KeCo's rant though - agree on all accounts.
These are definitely questions that have to be asked. There's also a possibility that they thought that they were telling the truth from their perspective. Maybe the licensor was asking for a premium product over $1,000 but then hot toys came along and was able to negotiate with better leverage just because they're bigger and can throw their weight around. Maybe the licensure saw the results of the Inart pre-order and wanted to go bigger with hot toys so they didn't have the same requirements because of hot toys status in the industry. Anyway, this is pure speculation and at the very least the question has to be asked.
I never got on board with inart as a 1/6 scale company I did buy there DK Joker but that was because I never owned a 1/6 scale Joker and did know if hot toys was going to come out with one or I definitely would've passed. Inarts prices are absurd and the whole Joaquin Phoenix Joker debacle was a "cash grab" for them to line there pockets they could've sold those figures separately but nope they wanted to reel in the community on a huge profit 📈 for them. For me I've been passing on inart figures one because of price and two because they don't give you the same sculpts as the prototypes not even close and that the DK Joker, the Aragorn from LOTR even Optical20 gave an in depth review on that inart Joker in comparison with the prototypes it's night and day to me. Honestly I collect all 1/6 scale as yourself Keco but inart is not one of them was disappointed with my DK Joker and the price forget about it especially for sculpted hair?! Yeah fool me once I'm good. I'm definitely day one going to snatch up that Joker from hot toys along with that black widow and possibly the Iron spider Tom Holland. But glad you are talking about this I definitely will make a video on this topic. Thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts great video overall.
KeCo... your videos reflect my thoughts 100percent. I could not agree with you more bro. InArt have alot of explaining to do. I cancelled my preorder of Inart Joker immediately. No hit as it was with Popcultcha....for the price of the Inart 2 pack I will order 3 (different) HT figures. And about quality... please... Inart have no QC.... i was a victim of a damaged Gandalf and that left a sour taste in my mouth
This thing about it is a new Hot Toys was going to do it because when they see the height of people and those trees back is money on the table that they're leaving But I'm wondering if they're gonna create another one from the bathroom scene and then that's going to leave collectors wondering should they cancel the three pack and go for that considering I've heard people enough say they're buying the three pack so they can get the bathroom scene And sell the other one With the four sales sign but what hot toys did today they copied a little bit from inart
I love it when you get to the hard truths Keco and I 100% agree with what you’re saying here. Basically InArt locked those in, including yourself into a paywall system to get the red suit Joker, while Hot Toys just came out with the recent announcements today and the artisan version by Hot Toys is way cheaper than what InArt was charging for on the 4 pack in order to get the red suit version of the Joker. I think that’s kinda sus and sleazy on InArts part. But maybe that’s the contract they have signed with WB who knows, but I can see the frustration on this topic. Thanks for another honest to truth and down to earth video Keco. 🔥👊🏻 Looking forward to more on what you have to say on this weeks livestream with Will on Friday, cannot wait!
@@KeCoCollects lol... Same! I messaged Kit and asked if he had a clue as to when I might receive my Batman and he literally replied " No idea".... (sigh)
I agree however could be WB changed their contract since then..i wanted inart joker but didn’t feel like having 4 jokers..so I’m going with hot toys Great video
I really want the InART Batman but just seems like I will probably never be able to actually purchase it from them. Guess I will just go with the Hot Toys version when it's available instead. There just seems to be too much trouble with actually purchasing from InART.
Still waiting for Pattinson Batman to ship. All of Inart's issues makes me not want to preorder. I'd like to preorder their Superman, but the process is horrible right now. I hope they fix it soon.
Mafex just revealed they’re doing a Joaquin joker as well so I’m assuming the character just got green lit finally. Maybe because the second movie is close.
DEFINITELY NOT defending but really trying to get the bigger picture here. I wonder - you know how Microsoft has its gaming division with Xbox and then it has everything else i.e. computers, etc? Now I have no idea if revenue affects one or the other or if it all goes to one place but I wonder if there's a similar situation with Warner Bros. When they mandated - if that's really the case - to lock Red Suit Joker behind a paywall, I wonder if that's because they were confident in their overall finances at the time they gave that instruction. Since then, or around that time, Warner Bros announced that they took around a $200 million loss because of the failure of Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League. So I'm wondering if, in a panic to try and make as much money as possible, they went to Hot Toys and told them to make a mass production Red Suit Joker so that they could make money however. Plus, with the recent price hike of MAX, could that have affected things as well? Obviously, figure sales won't recoup $200 million but it does make me think if that's a possibility. Hopefully that makes sense - like does their streaming service revenue, affect their movie video game revenue, affect their merchandise revenue, etc etc and that's why when one fails the other "branches" have to make up for it? BUT you have every right to be upset about the business practice of InArt. And your voice is SUPER important especially with how you're not willing to hold back on certain issues and really ask the hard hitting questions. Voices like yours are really the only defense consumers have from these companies potentially taking complete advantage of people. Keep it up! I wish you were also into video games so you could've interviewed the Xbox people a couple months ago and not let them get away with evading questions
Your opinion makes sense. I appreciate your information on your videos. Also I been following you since I saw you on Wil,s channel. Keep up the good work. 👍
I’ve pre ordered my inart pennywise since last year February and still haven’t received it. It’s unacceptable to wait that long for something they said would be available to have them in stock since last summer
I think hot toys most be using the license for the new Joker instead of the one of the last movie and Inart is using the old one what concerns me is that Inart said in multiple times they had access to everything under the Warner umbrella so I don't know why the couldn't just use the new movie's license 🤔🤔😳
I dare say an explanation would be nice BUT the price requirement of the license matter has been referenced in numerous other areas of merchandising, it absolutely was not invented by In/Art as a sneaky sales tactic. Around the time of the film's release for example, I was in conversation with some friends I had at Mondo, - pre-Funko Mondo that is - and when I asked about licensed posters fir the film, I was told about the licensing restrictions,. Perhaps in the interest of fairness, we also need an explanation from Hot Toys from the flip side... I do have the In/Art version on order and I' fine with it given the 4-figures etc etc... am wondering if perhaps there was an expiration on the restriction or perhaps the license was obtained via other means? Not suggesting skull-duggery but it's entirel possible, and legal, to license essentially the same product via two different licensing channels - this is how certain print companies release Star Wars prints when Acme Archives have the Star Wars 'art' license... it's not a print, it's merchandise!! If you get my meaning.... ultimately, let's all try to behave rationally...
@KeCoCollects haha. But your points were valid in the podcast. That screenshot doesn't look anywhere near like a legit document. Well all we need now is the Terminator announcement
Do you think there WAS a $1000 threshold, and then WB changed their mind?? It is a possibility 🤣 I’d take a stab at the dark and say that’s what Hot Toys were waiting on, it’d be more sensible to say WB had this threshold and HT had been in talks to void it - Possibly because WB seen how much collectors want a 1/6 official Joker through Inart pre-order sales! They thought ‘Damn, they’ll spend $1000+ for this thing?’ And then ‘Sales numbers are small though, let’s give the go ahead for Hot Toys to sell theirs at a lower price, selling more units and thus make us more money!’ - Good theory or nah? 🎉😂
Sadly I don't feel like we will get answers, only more questions... just like The Acolyte 😂. I feel like there will be lots of canceled inart POs. Here's to all the HT 🔥 from today! Can't wait for the live on Friday!
This is why I’m loyal to just hot toys. I’d rather wait for them to release their products. Grievous is a great example. Why buy the sideshow version when you can wait for a higher quality product from hot toys.
Glad you made this video! To be honest I’m starting to feel a little inconvenient with the way they are operating giving the fact they also claimed they released Pattinson in March… well yeah nowhere to be found. Now this…they lied to us. Jon also said they couldn’t give a rooted Heath Joker in 500 dollar because of the license… yeah right.
If you look at the promo image of all the Hot Toys showcase figures, written underneath the Joker promo it states the license is taken from The Joker 2 upcoming movie - might explain how Hot Toys have gotten around the $1k minimum threshold that InArt have stated they were bound to? Does this ger them off the hook? Looking forward to hearing John "The Con" trying to salvage some credibility here.
I think the MJ angle is a HT issue and nothing to do with Inart. So if HT make another MJ then so be it. That's the chances we take as collectors. As for the joker situation, surely they can't be held accountable if another company makes their own version? Licensing exclusivity is a rare thing these days and Inart was all about giving us premium figures. HT has now caught up.
Man that shirt is fire lol I can see both yours and Will's viewpoints here, but InArt is offering 4 unique looks for a pretty reasonable price considering the bases and rooted sculpts. I do not blame them here whatsoever, they probably just had a different licensing agreement. I don't really see an issue here, they can not control what Hot Toys or Warner Bros. does. However, I 100% will continue to criticize their release process and lack of timeliness.
The cost per figure is actually VERY fair. It's just the unfortunate deal of being forced to get potentially one you don't really want just for the look you do.
As someone who has more or less stepped away from the collecting community but has the InArt Joker on PO, I just find it a joke how the community is complaining. These companies don’t owe us any explanation. If you don’t like it, don’t buy. It’s all part of the game. Do you see luxury fashion labels putting out reasoning/explanation for why their products are thousands of dollars? No you don’t. This community likes to bitch and moan. The InArt figure will likely be the superior one in quality. If you don’t like InArt’s offering and the fact that you needed to get 2 or 4 figures, simply don’t buy it. KeCo Collects, this isn’t necessarily an attack on you, it’s just my thoughts generally to the collecting community. Hot Toys, InArt, JND … etc … none of them owe us ANY explanation in my opinion.
You are totally correct, and there is plenty of over reactions all the time. Agreed the inART SHOULD be the superior, I think most are just miffed on the entry point where we were told this is the only way to get it. Easy to "not buy" if there is another option - but there wasn't at the time. But alas, we take what we got :)
@@KeCoCollects it could very well be that what InArt has said is what they were mandated. There probably is different agreements for different companies. I don’t think it’s worth worrying and speculating about whether they lied or not. Appreciate your response and great video overall 😊
It’s crazy that they are scurrying around and justifying that high price and that four pack behind “it’s because of the license issue” like what- Like you said Keco: Stop beating around the bush and be at least honest. Every company needs money and profit that’s clear. It’s they way it is and how they can continue that work but literally lying and playing around is just low
Inart likely was beholden to that $1,000 minimum. They put their offering up for preorder and it must have been a success. Hot Toys gets word, and Howard plays hard ball with WB and negotiates a better deal using the power of his brand. The only reason the Hot Toys one is even an offering is b/c of Inart. Just my opinion obviously, but I don't think there's much more to this.
@@KeCoCollects yup just your intro song then nothing. And every other video works. I’m super curious on this one. I traded Optical20 my INART 2 pack because I’m disappointed. I also have another Pennywise INART to part with as well
I’m not even sure what I wanna do at this point. Put $200 down with kit for the two pack already. Not satisfied with some parts of the hot toys joker but part of me would rather take a not so well tailored suit and sculpted hair over paying 1k for the two pack now.
Constant QC issues, Announcement > Two Year Wait > Release > Another year wait and completing side quests like hobby lobby bases and announcing/ sending figures to “influencers”. No shade for Will, but the fact he is receiving his Harry soon when the majority of us have had radio silence for our Batman is abysmal.
Like Will said, not knocking the advantages in front of him, and happy he puts out great content with it ... but average collector over here is still waiting
@@KeCoCollects Totally agree with Will, you'd be silly to knock that advantage. But InArt is on the hook for answering these questions.. what could be totally innocent and simply teething issues, appears right now to be scummy business practices.
Makes no sense, we don’t know the full details of their contract and or WB could have removed that price threshold recently - HT figure looks rushed and Mafex announced they have their 1/12 Phoenix Joker coming soon. The $1,000 threshold makes sense, before this year, what collectibles exist for The Joker under $1,000? The hate seems completely unjustified - what would be cool is if InArt can come out and allow people to make modifications to their order and essentially re open new orders for fans just wanting one figure.
There is a good chance InArt has a different deal to Hot Toys. As hot toys has been making Warner figures for years with single figures. InArt were new to the 1/6 scene and WB license. So it could well be that they have harsher terms than HT. From what I know JazzInc is also under obligation to get minimum prices (1000+) for their 1/6 DC vehicles, so it would make sense inArt also has something like that. So I wouldn't call it scandalous or anything as outrageous. It is unfortunate if you only wanted the one Joker and settled for the 2 or 4 pack to get it, but thats nothing new with hot toys re-releasing Vaders, Spiderman, Iron Man, Batman, Jokers, etc... With every release there is a chance now for a better version down the line, so you have to decide on every release what works for your collection. Don't need to know the internal politics of any company to judge the figures for my collections.
This is literally what John said in a livestream. Not everyone can get a license and John said Inart had a hard time getting any license due to HTs global license. The only way to get a limited market release license was to differentiate in price/category/scale which led WB to specify (or Inart to propose) the cost minimum to put them in a higher bracket price point as to not violate WBs license agreement with Hot Toys. This stuff happens literally all the time and John was super transparent about it. JND is likely in a very similar camp and probably has yet another specific set of requirements around their license from WB which may be why their stuff is even higher priced in some ways and even more limited in markets. Occam's razor prevails once again here - the simplest answer is usually the right one and in this instance it's all but a certainty that not all license agreements are the same and Inart, JND and HT all have different license agreements with WB and none of them have lied to us.
I see where your coming from, and I do want answers. I also know hot toys plays games behind the scenes with fake promos and trying to get consumers to pick a side because they don’t want to coexist. This would be a good chest move by them by getting the joker and selling them with a deal from WB. We don’t know what deal hot toys has, so we can’t exactly put all the pressure on inArt. I know we all are rushing to get angry with inArt because of frustration with release time. I guess this is the downside to speaking to the community directly. All the question and frustration go to inArt because they have open communication. Let’s just wait and see before we attack. Maybe just start with questioning.
Hey Keco, I treat InArt as a startup. Let's be honest they are still new and their shipping problems are getting annoying So I tend to give them some break but this...... This no one can or should be defending! It's absolutely unacceptable. Like many I only wanted the red suit joker and now I will most likely have to PO the Hot Toys one and loose my Joker NRD money (which was A LOT!) just so I can get 3-4 figures instead of a single figure and one I don't want. I am upset
it amaze me, how people can be in a Uproar about price, When Hot toys takes 5 years to decide make a figure. after the sequel comes out. and another year before you see it. The question should be why NOW?? The Hot Toys is under the "sequel" licensing? I bet different standards. HOT TOYS will get Gaga fig and make up the difference in price.
I love my Gandalf, but InArt drives me crazy with their 18 months of mismatched batches. Correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't the InArt license technically only for non-US customers. Also, with the all the corporate changes at Warners I can see them "altering the deal."
I don't know all the details admittedly, but I think that only a few of their figures (Paul and MJ) are a Global license ... so yes, they are made for primarily non us customers
As Keco's self proclaimed best friend (one of), I need to step in here (as he said in that Tobey interview 😂).
Firstly, let me say, Keco's videos are unique in this community because they are honest, direct, and influential in terms of creating larger, more productive conversations. I also greatly admire his willingness to stand up for what he believes to be in the best interest of the larger collecting community. That said, let me explain why I think he's off-base here.
For those who have not already discounted my opinion due to some sort of perceived InArt allegiance ("shilling"), please allow me to explain the logical fallacy at play here. Let me be clear, I am fan of InArt's, and I do work with them, but I am always as objective as I can be.
InArt is not responsible for what other businesses do, and they're extremely unlikely to be privy to their negotiations with licensors. Could they be lying about the $1000 Warner Bros. imposed limit on a Joaquin Joker figure? Of course they COULD be, but it doesn't make any sense for them to do so. If they were in fact lying about this $1000 imposed minimum, why wouldn't they just sell ONE Murray Franklin Joker for $1000 to maximize their profits? Instead, they provided you with 2 figures for $1100-$1200 shipped through Kit, and $1700 for 4 figures. They packed a ton of value into their offerings to give you just that, value. Why would they add this extra cost if they were nefariously trying to screw collectors over to maximize profits?
No one knows the truth except InArt, but the idea that InArt somehow strong-armed collectors into doing something they didn't want to do is silly. These are luxury items, and by their nature, are completely non-essential purchases. You don't NEED to buy a 1:6 scale Joaquin Joker figure. It's not essential to your well-being and thus InArt, nor any other collectible company can coerce you to spend money you don't want to. If collectors felt the price was too steep and they just wanted the Murray Franklin Joker, they can either pass, buy a loose copy off another collector, or some other alternative. The blame deflecting for a collector now regretting their purchase because Hot Toys announced a cheaper alternative is unfair, to any company in InArt's position.
It's also entirely possible that the licensing restrictions changed, or Hot Toys simply negotiated more favorable terms. I don't think people realize how influential Sideshow Collectibles is as a collectible company. They are probably the biggest collectible distributor on the planet and they are extremely well connected. They probably are the ones who negotiated with Warner Bros for the license and simply extended it to Hot Toys, as has been reported with the 1:6 Marvel and Star Wars licenses. A new film is coming out, and Warner Bros. probably negotiated different terms with Hot Toys. This is a far more likely scenario than InArt lying.
Let me leave you with an analogy: Keco comes to me and asks me should he buy the Beast Kingdom Iron Throne. I say yes because it's the cheapest I've ever seen it at $180 and Amazon told me they won't lower the price further. I tell him to use my affiliate link to help the channel and he obliges. Keco buys the throne, and 2 weeks later Beast Kingdom announces a diecast throne it's being sold for $140. Keco subsequently is mad at me because he says I lied to him. Is this fair logic? I couldn't project Beast Kingdom would make another one...why would InArt worry about what other companies MIGHT do after they already announced their version?
EDIT: Wanted to contribute one additional thought. The statement that "InArt owes us answers" is silly. InArt doesn't owe any collector who pre-ordered their products an explanation of their business negotiations with licensors. This entitled mindset villainizes InArt based on the premise that they communicated with us in the first place. Maybe this is why Hot Toys doesn't talk to anyone, because this is how people act (entitled). Collectors pre-ordered a product because they felt it was a good quality product and it offered good value. Now a perceivably better value comes along and collectors are entitled to InArt explaining their private business negotiations and pricing models...? No.
yeah sorry dude, you’re defending the indefensible. You’re getting Harry Potter soon and most of us have had radio silence on our Batman while InArt release two more figures and send them to their “influencers” and make hobby lobby bases. InArt blows, I’m done.
@@Illusion_Entity Totally fair. To each their own! If you don't like the company's business model, I'm with you, I wouldn't support it either.
I love Will and value his opinion. My favorite thing about our friendship (as we've stated numerous times) is our ability to have TOTALLY different views, share them respectfully, and then switch gears to argue about Team Green vs Team Black in HOTD. ✊🏼
@@KeCoCollects 100% bro. Keco is my best friend for exactly this reason.
Will, the point here is beyond the values Inart provide. I agree with you that there is tremendous value in paying 1100 for 2 rooted hair figures. The math IS mathing.
However, what irks folks here is Inart imply they have no choice. 1000 is the requirement. The way they frame it as they are "doing the collectors a favour" by providing more stuff plus the quality.
What they should have said is that each contract is unique. In their situation, 1000 is required. It is understandable since Inart is a new company. They probably have less leverage compared to Hottoys. Totally understandable. To add to that, Inart should state that other companies could sell for less since every contract is different.
This just demonstrates that Inart PR is terrible. Their messaging is bad. Their post-release update is bad. (Yes I'm one of the customers who is still waiting for the Inart Batman)
I agree that this release calls into question Inart’s claims about that price point. It’s really weird and now I think a lot of people are stuck with 3-4 figures from those sets they probably don’t really want. That said, just comparing the quality, I do think the Inart red suit Joker looks significantly better than what Hot Toys just showed so I don’t think those who ordered it lost the battle except when it comes to how badly their wallets were hit.
Yes - quality never was in doubt. The process on the other hand...
I have a feeling you aren't going to let Will forget that he called the Kenobi version the definitive Darth Vader lol. This new one looks really damn amazing
I mean... you aren't wrong
I think people that bought the standard edition of that Vader will be salty, but it still has swap out parts with the deluxe. Still, this new announcement puts that one to shame in terms of battle damage.
If it came with a clean look it would be
No one should listen to Will. He overhypes figures constantly and declares that everything is a "definitive" of "grail" for "true" fans. I would be pissed so many times if I'd listem to that guy...
@@equos5060clearly an inart shill to boot.
I think today just showcases how powerful and influential Hot Toys is as a company. It just flexed all over its competitors (clearly in its contract negotiations for Phoenix Joker), and just rendered a new release still coming to hands of collectors practically obsolete overnight (BD Vader). Hot Toys doesn't just break the rules, it sets its own rules for the game.
Hard to argue their influence in this hobby
I mean given how long they have been in the game and the position they have achieved I am not surprised. U could almost say they are the game at this point.
The upcoming artisan Black Widow has a mag base. Wonder what inspired them to do that? 🤔I said some people are start calling InArt liars with Hot Toys releasing this Joker. What's funny is its totally possible Hot Toys had the license way back when the movie was released but never utilized it until now. Not like they haven't done shit like this before. But hey competition. Lets see how InArt responds. U aren't going to win by saying well we were told this. Keep moving forward and crank out some bangers. Hell a rep on JNDs live stream said you could get the license for Nurse Joker but they don't think people want it. What stats they are looking at I have no clue. Meanwhile John from InArt said Nurse Joker was a hard no go from WB. Totally possible JND and InArt would told two different things are one is wrong. Dunno. We may never know. Personally I dont care. This is a hobby not something I need to survive. I will go with whatever company offers the best product imo that I want.
Hot Toys: “It’s not about money. It’s about sending a message.”
They really fired shots with this Joker announcement! I’m not a huge fan of this version either way, but I can certainly understand and empathize with what’s going on here and why so many are upset with Inart right now. Legit my first thought when I saw this was, “wait, didn’t they say they couldn’t do a single release cause of licensor restrictions?? BS.”
I hope we get those answers as I have four preorders with them.
Anyways, great video as always Keco!! Keep it up
I just want some answers!!
I didnt order the inart one, price point was just too much...but i will go for the hot toys one!
100% agree on this. I cancelled my order with Kit and took the hit. I just don’t like this InART process anymore
InArt really pooped the bed in this one.
💩💩💩
Keep bringing the fire and passion Keco! Not even on the topic of the Joker but in any other industry a company like Inart would not exist with their supply chain issues or shipping delays. Its like in sports, an athlete's best ability is availability. They don't have availability.
Correct. And just like JOE BURROW will be AVAILABLE this season, Bengals winning it all ...
And we will host the Lombardi before these Jokers ship
Another good straight talking video.
I didn't pre-order the Phoenix Joker purely because I didn't want to spend that money on multiple Jokers, I love the movie but I only really like the red suit look so I passed. I think the Inart is much better and if it was a movie I adored I wouldn't be too upset because as it stands I would feel I've gotten the best product.
However, what's to stop Hot Toys from getting The Lord Of The Rings license and doing those figures as it's a beloved trilogy and I think competition is needed there.
Hot toys is pretty much in the drivers seat
@@KeCoCollects absolutely, I think Inart have gotten good products out that look better than Hot Toys like their TDK Joker is still better than Hot Toys second effort in my opinion.
Hot Toys could have the edge on Lord Of The Rings because Inart are doing it first but I'm wondering if it's a licence they'd go for.
I could see Hot Toys picking up LOTR and Harry Potter possibly.
So, it's clear it's one of two scenarios.
1) WB lowered the threshold, allowing HTs to come in at a lower price due to their volume, or just lowered it to give out the license since WB loves to do that. This also means JND is around the corner.
2) In business, there's the LTV:CAC ratio (lifetime value to customer acquisition cost), which basically means how much money I can make if I spend $1. So, if their LTV:CAC is a 1:20 for example, then they can be aggressive and have Joker be a loss leader to 1) Compete with InArt and cause negative PR, 2) Bring new collectors into the market, 3) Provide collectors with more value, or 4) all the reasons listed.
PS It's silly to think that InArt would really create a $1,000 paywall knowing they didn't sign an exclusivity agreement, which means anyone can come and get the license as well.
This solid business example is MUCH appreciated.
In all likelihood, it's probably both. It's fairly obvious that Hot Toys are not taking kindly to the recent competition from other new companies who have tried to muscle in on their market superiority (and thereby probably causing them to have to increase R&D costs to maintain their leadership role in the market, the artisan and hono lines for example) and also, WB has probably reduced the threshold for the Joker license as a way to build anticipation for the Joker sequel.
@@gpanthony both scenarios can be a possibility. Intentional paywall? That's reaching.
I think it's even simpler - WB has different tiers of licenses and does not want different companies crossing over one another and creating too much competition in the same price or scale/size category. John of Inart alluded to this in Will's stream. He basically said WB would only give Inart a license (and not THE license) with the requirements to sell a premium version. I think the obvious way to read between the lines here (and the way John may have even communicated it) is that Hot Toys already has THE 1/6 scale global license from WB for their typical size/quality/cost range and WB didn't want Inart eating in to and/or wasn't allowed to let them eat in to it due to existing license agreements that HT and WB had. This happens literally everywhere when it comes to companies and licenses. I feel strongly that no one was deceitful and even when John explained it he did so truthfully based on the limitations and requirements that WB imposed on all licensors in each of their respective categories.
@@Sivart321 Yeah, so basically scenerio one. Different volume, different tiers, etc. I agree. I agree that InArt was not deceitful. You (collectors) can dislike them for any other reason, sure, but this shouldn't be one of them.
Someone needs to superimpose Keco's videos over the hackers messages - on the tv screens - that feature in the John Carpenter classic, They Live.
Stellar work Keco, you're fast becoming the Morpheus of the figure collecting community.
Morpheus?? That's a lot of responsibility
Great video as always Keco! Just wanted to let you know your Suicide Squad Harley fell backwards against the Jokers jail cell. Wouldn't want paint rub.
Great catch!
I saw Will's video and had some other discussion about it with some folks and I've heard possible explanations but at the end of the day, nobody really knows why this is set up how it is. I agree they definitely should say something. I do think, like Will was saying, that they weren't trying to take everyone for a ride...simply because of everything that they offered for the price point of that 4 pack. Of course, to your point, how many people would buy just straight up Arthur Fleck by himself? Probably not a whole lot. So I guess value can be argued, but they did still have to make 4 different figures...well, 3 and maybe a quarter...since the bathroom scene and the hospital scene were really just the difference of a head sculpt, shoes, and lab coat.
Will makes great points
If you look at the Hot Toy though, they clearly went all out. It has seamless arms for no real reason. The base is a real backdrop that lights up and everything, rooted hair. plus the curtains and the chair which Hot Toys would normally never do to cut costs. They obviously purposefully padded this thing to make it more expensive because of the license. This thing will be crazy expensive.
Did they? It could be seamless forearms just like Wolverine ... I'm interested to see what they offfer
Im a huge InArt supporter, but these are great questions. Now, what i would think the situation is, Hot Toys has a ton of pull with licenses. Case in point, they blocked Joost from selling the Catwoman in the US.
I don't think InArt would purposely put this figure behind a large paywall when sales would have been much higher to offer the red suit version only. I liked this movie a lot, but not enough for me to spend over $1000 on it and have so many figures. Therefore, this is one of only two InArt releases so far I haven't ordered. I will be purchasing the HT version because I only need one figure for this.
I truly think this is a HT planned out move to damage InArt's reputation and orders. Great move on their part. I just want great figures from both companies and dont care who's providing them. I have the Artisan TDK Joker on order and think it will be better than InArt's, that I have the sculpted version of.
Maybe InArt should stop with the DC figures and just focus on franchises like LOTR, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, and others in that relm. Great video KeCo
Thanks for watching! I do 100% agree it was a calculated move by hot toys ... perhaps even petty lol
"InArt! You f@#k!n with my money!!!!" Dark KeCo 2024
And the millions watching around the world
I want a rooted winter soldier from Winter Soldier. That's one of my favorite films for the next artisan. But to get what this video is about and what you were talking about, i agree 100 percent. I already canceled mine. After the way the joker dropped so much from the prototype,( the 1st one ) the eyes , the makeup everything else . I'm still waiting for my inart batman, the batch system crap, the lies and everything else I feel I won't be preordering anything from them anymore. We have 2 kids, and like you said, we have to watch our fun money, and my fun money isn't going towards inart anymore. I'll stick with hot toys like i have the last 13 years ( last I love my inart joker, I'm just making a point how much it lost and looks completely different and adding that to the list of crap 💩 they pulled )
I too would love a winter soldier ... he's looking a little weak at the moment on my shelf
It’s no longer that lame line “wait for inart” anymore. It’s wait for HOT TOYS 🔥 And boy am I glad I did with Phoenix’s Joker. You know, the one we all wanted without a 15 joker paywall of figures we don’t want in order to get this one. 🥴🤣
This 👆🏼
Will is working on Inarts defense right now!!! Wait for it
100% I am lol
I welcome his opinion! I love hearing both sides and anything he shares will most likely be much better articulated than me :)
@@WillFoxificationsorry dude I love your channel but I don’t see how you can defend this shambles of a company anymore. You’re literally receiving Harry soon and most of us still have gotten radio silence on our Batman for ages..
Meanwhile they’re making hobby lobby bases and releasing Aragorn and Harry and getting them to their VIPs and UA-camrs. After I receive my Batman I’m fully done with InArt. Their QC is dog shit unless you’re a VIP or influencer.. the amount of bent cowl ears I have seen is stupid.
Some guy received his Batman recently with no zips attached at the back. So now InArt may send him the zippers, but he now has to glue them onto a $500 figure himself? Abysmal company, InArt BLOWS.
@@Illusion_Entity Appreciate you bro. You know I disagree, but I respect the hell out of your honesty.
I personally don't blame you for reacting this way this is a lot of money at the end of the day and we as collectors want to purchase but spend our money wisely and try to find good value in what were buying in the products but seeing things like this is why and I realized it when hot toys brought out there he ledgers Joker that is basically a anything you can do we can try and do and make it a little bit cheaper which is the main reason why I am not buying any 6 scale figures from this new company not that they're not good not that the detail is very amazing and incredible but because I know especially if it's something that I want personally hot toys will try and copy it and make their own for a whole lot cheaper I love this community I love these figures but I'm not going bankruptcy on them
Just trying to be smart over here 🙏🏻
Great video as always! Glad to have you on the silence/average collector side! Not trying to knock those "First Batch reviewer/influence" channel, but its really pointless for them to get it first because their batch always get the top quality, and after reviewing it, half of years later people starting to get their figure and end up having QC issues and missing stuff. its felt like a bait and switch.
InART needs to figure it out for sure
I want to believe that something involving licensing has changed, or HT was able to negotiate. I dont regret getting the 4 pack from Inart, as i see the value of both sets. But if they lied then thats not a good business move. Happy to see you calling out anything thats sus. I know you'd call out anything HT does too.
And I DO! I even said HT was shady in this
@@KeCoCollects I know! I hate that people associate you as the "Inart hater" when you just call it like you see it. Everybody has to take a side now, when at the end of the day, I just want good figures. Something HT and IA deliver on.
Except if you watch his previous videos and live podcast keco shits on inart all the time lol
@Ajxskyline I wouldn't exactly say it's not warranted though. I love Inart, but the one thing that can't be fully defended is their speed. Once you get the figures, they are awesome. But distribution sucks.
@@Ajxskyline because they do silly things. I equally call out hot toys, they just do less of it (that we can see) - the repaints are silly, etc. BS regardless of who it comes from is still BS
If u pay attention on the headsculpt
The inart one is far more better and accurate
To be honest i have 0 hype with the hot toys one
Even my custom the joker look far better that hot toys one (headsculpt made by creg)
We will find out soon enough!
One JND representative said there is no ban on the Nurse Joker , now this . On top of the blatant lie John said about “ who decides who to get the influencer batch “ also exposed 😅. It seems InArt lie a lot , on top of the slow shipping and tons of QC complains by more and more people .
InArt has a problem .
Im trying to be understanding, but the gaffes are piling up
shots fired !!!!!! man I be thinking the samething. I stand with you !!! where’s the figures !!!! makes me more upset I really think they are superior and really want the figure
Great products for sure, VERY odd choice of marketing and business strategy
Totally agree, you don't play with other people's money, we need answers, Keco you're the man! 🤘🏻
Thanks for the vote of confidence 👍🏻
@WillFoxification
On a positive note. Will, I just purchased the Beast Kingdom Iron Throne from Amazon. Couldn't pass up $184 for a 1/6 Iron Throne. I absolutely love it. ended up getting 272/3000. It's definitely a centerpiece. Now I just need a good Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons 1/6 figure lmao
You pulled a great number!
I'm just disappointed we’re not getting other IP's. Competition is good but there are so many other figures we would go nuts for and were just getting duplicates. Well, if you missed out on Inart then this is a great chance to get this Joker. Also, since Inart doesn't have distribution in the states it makes it harder to obtain those figures. Can't argue with KeCo's rant though - agree on all accounts.
The non US distribution for most pieces really does stink.
These are definitely questions that have to be asked. There's also a possibility that they thought that they were telling the truth from their perspective. Maybe the licensor was asking for a premium product over $1,000 but then hot toys came along and was able to negotiate with better leverage just because they're bigger and can throw their weight around. Maybe the licensure saw the results of the Inart pre-order and wanted to go bigger with hot toys so they didn't have the same requirements because of hot toys status in the industry. Anyway, this is pure speculation and at the very least the question has to be asked.
Speculation for sure on my part... but it all good be "from a certain point of view"
@@KeCoCollects I should clarify that the speculation was mine. I’m looking forward to your interview with Jon the next time it comes around
I never got on board with inart as a 1/6 scale company I did buy there DK Joker but that was because I never owned a 1/6 scale Joker and did know if hot toys was going to come out with one or I definitely would've passed. Inarts prices are absurd and the whole Joaquin Phoenix Joker debacle was a "cash grab" for them to line there pockets they could've sold those figures separately but nope they wanted to reel in the community on a huge profit 📈 for them. For me I've been passing on inart figures one because of price and two because they don't give you the same sculpts as the prototypes not even close and that the DK Joker, the Aragorn from LOTR even Optical20 gave an in depth review on that inart Joker in comparison with the prototypes it's night and day to me. Honestly I collect all 1/6 scale as yourself Keco but inart is not one of them was disappointed with my DK Joker and the price forget about it especially for sculpted hair?! Yeah fool me once I'm good. I'm definitely day one going to snatch up that Joker from hot toys along with that black widow and possibly the Iron spider Tom Holland. But glad you are talking about this I definitely will make a video on this topic. Thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts great video overall.
I HAVE to get that Widow
Most definitely I thought I was good with the white suit black widow but NOPE HOT TOYS did it again 😅@KeCoCollects
KeCo... your videos reflect my thoughts 100percent. I could not agree with you more bro. InArt have alot of explaining to do. I cancelled my preorder of Inart Joker immediately. No hit as it was with Popcultcha....for the price of the Inart 2 pack I will order 3 (different) HT figures. And about quality... please... Inart have no QC.... i was a victim of a damaged Gandalf and that left a sour taste in my mouth
No NRD??? Nice
@@KeCoCollects yeah dude... fortunately!
Mas Fuego 🌶🌶🌶 😂 Gotta love KeCo for his conviction! Never pulls his punches.
I still think the leaks are fake and that we never landed on the moon
Thank you for all you do plus we all think highly of you voice for the 1/6 community
I appreciate you watching
This thing about it is a new Hot Toys was going to do it because when they see the height of people and those trees back is money on the table that they're leaving But I'm wondering if they're gonna create another one from the bathroom scene and then that's going to leave collectors wondering should they cancel the three pack and go for that considering I've heard people enough say they're buying the three pack so they can get the bathroom scene And sell the other one With the four sales sign but what hot toys did today they copied a little bit from inart
If they made a Hot Toys Bathroom scene, that would be diabolical lol
Have you seen the Hot Toys Joaquin Phoenix Joker? not a patch on the amazing InArt Joker.
I have the 2 pack on pre_order ^_^
I agree, the inART one looks great
KeCo my man, you are the GOAT. Thanks for speaking the truth
Far from GOAT status, but appreciated
I love it when you get to the hard truths Keco and I 100% agree with what you’re saying here. Basically InArt locked those in, including yourself into a paywall system to get the red suit Joker, while Hot Toys just came out with the recent announcements today and the artisan version by Hot Toys is way cheaper than what InArt was charging for on the 4 pack in order to get the red suit version of the Joker. I think that’s kinda sus and sleazy on InArts part. But maybe that’s the contract they have signed with WB who knows, but I can see the frustration on this topic. Thanks for another honest to truth and down to earth video Keco. 🔥👊🏻 Looking forward to more on what you have to say on this weeks livestream with Will on Friday, cannot wait!
Thanks for watching my friend. Means a lot!
@@KeCoCollects You can’t argue with the facts and what you said makes sense. 👊🏻
I never ordered with InArt because something didn’t seem right about that price point. I ordered all their other products.
And I'm still waiting on my Batman lol. Watch them never ship it now out of spite lol
@@KeCoCollects lol... Same! I messaged Kit and asked if he had a clue as to when I might receive my Batman and he literally replied " No idea".... (sigh)
@@restlessyouthproductions sigh indeed
I agree however could be WB changed their contract since then..i wanted inart joker but didn’t feel like having 4 jokers..so I’m going with hot toys
Great video
Entirely possible!
I am totally agree with you!
Appreciate you watching!
I really want the InART Batman but just seems like I will probably never be able to actually purchase it from them. Guess I will just go with the Hot Toys version when it's available instead. There just seems to be too much trouble with actually purchasing from InART.
Lots of questions to be answered for sure
Just need hot toys to kick that limited run BS
Yeah, I think everything revealed today is exclusive lol. Pain!
5:24 Damn, Inart broke Keco so bad he’s literally spitting in his rant. HAWK TUAH!! 💦 🤣
LOLLLL! Spit on that thang
@@KeCoCollects 🥹😅
lol
Their license could be different from the license that Hot Toys has.
I'm thinking it is for sure
Still waiting for Pattinson Batman to ship. All of Inart's issues makes me not want to preorder. I'd like to preorder their Superman, but the process is horrible right now. I hope they fix it soon.
Yeah, I'm still waiting too
🙋🏾......i don't have tik tok, instagram,you tube channel or even facebook........THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ‼️🦾
"I never got to thank you..."
BATMAN - "...and you'll never have to"
@@KeCoCollects .......
CLASSIC ‼️ 😅
Mafex just revealed they’re doing a Joaquin joker as well so I’m assuming the character just got green lit finally. Maybe because the second movie is close.
This is looking very likely
DEFINITELY NOT defending but really trying to get the bigger picture here. I wonder - you know how Microsoft has its gaming division with Xbox and then it has everything else i.e. computers, etc? Now I have no idea if revenue affects one or the other or if it all goes to one place but I wonder if there's a similar situation with Warner Bros. When they mandated - if that's really the case - to lock Red Suit Joker behind a paywall, I wonder if that's because they were confident in their overall finances at the time they gave that instruction. Since then, or around that time, Warner Bros announced that they took around a $200 million loss because of the failure of Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League. So I'm wondering if, in a panic to try and make as much money as possible, they went to Hot Toys and told them to make a mass production Red Suit Joker so that they could make money however. Plus, with the recent price hike of MAX, could that have affected things as well? Obviously, figure sales won't recoup $200 million but it does make me think if that's a possibility. Hopefully that makes sense - like does their streaming service revenue, affect their movie video game revenue, affect their merchandise revenue, etc etc and that's why when one fails the other "branches" have to make up for it?
BUT you have every right to be upset about the business practice of InArt. And your voice is SUPER important especially with how you're not willing to hold back on certain issues and really ask the hard hitting questions. Voices like yours are really the only defense consumers have from these companies potentially taking complete advantage of people. Keep it up! I wish you were also into video games so you could've interviewed the Xbox people a couple months ago and not let them get away with evading questions
Video game drama??? Intrigue 👀
Next up... Artisan Harry Potter.
Coming SOON! Lol
Coming soon to influencers yah
Hope inart agrees to a stream with you... I'll definitely tune in for that one. Cheers for sharing as always Keco ✌🏻
Open invite! It would be for the good of everyone
Your opinion makes sense. I appreciate your information on your videos. Also I been following you since I saw you on Wil,s channel. Keep up the good work. 👍
Thanks for watching!
Keco buddy I need you to deny everything so we can get everything 😂😂😂
Deal 👍🏻
That Harley figure in the background needs to be readjusted lol got that inart joker lean going on lol Great video by the way 👍
Lollll. You aren't wrong
I am so glad I haven't had any interest in any of the Joker figures that have been released or announced from any of the movies (or comics).
Saved some headache for sure!
@@KeCoCollects absolutely! and saved my wallet too
I’ve pre ordered my inart pennywise since last year February and still haven’t received it. It’s unacceptable to wait that long for something they said would be available to have them in stock since last summer
It's truly absurd
I think hot toys most be using the license for the new Joker instead of the one of the last movie and Inart is using the old one what concerns me is that Inart said in multiple times they had access to everything under the Warner umbrella so I don't know why the couldn't just use the new movie's license 🤔🤔😳
Not sure. But interesting times we live in for sure
I dare say an explanation would be nice BUT the price requirement of the license matter has been referenced in numerous other areas of merchandising, it absolutely was not invented by In/Art as a sneaky sales tactic. Around the time of the film's release for example, I was in conversation with some friends I had at Mondo, - pre-Funko Mondo that is - and when I asked about licensed posters fir the film, I was told about the licensing restrictions,. Perhaps in the interest of fairness, we also need an explanation from Hot Toys from the flip side... I do have the In/Art version on order and I' fine with it given the 4-figures etc etc... am wondering if perhaps there was an expiration on the restriction or perhaps the license was obtained via other means? Not suggesting skull-duggery but it's entirel possible, and legal, to license essentially the same product via two different licensing channels - this is how certain print companies release Star Wars prints when Acme Archives have the Star Wars 'art' license... it's not a print, it's merchandise!! If you get my meaning.... ultimately, let's all try to behave rationally...
For sure! Logical, well put response 👍🏻
Now that grevious has been announced, do you think that leak might be true?
lol. I feel I MAY have to back peddle
@KeCoCollects haha. But your points were valid in the podcast. That screenshot doesn't look anywhere near like a legit document. Well all we need now is the Terminator announcement
Do you think there WAS a $1000 threshold, and then WB changed their mind?? It is a possibility 🤣 I’d take a stab at the dark and say that’s what Hot Toys were waiting on, it’d be more sensible to say WB had this threshold and HT had been in talks to void it - Possibly because WB seen how much collectors want a 1/6 official Joker through Inart pre-order sales! They thought ‘Damn, they’ll spend $1000+ for this thing?’ And then ‘Sales numbers are small though, let’s give the go ahead for Hot Toys to sell theirs at a lower price, selling more units and thus make us more money!’ - Good theory or nah? 🎉😂
Any theory is valid!
Sadly I don't feel like we will get answers, only more questions... just like The Acolyte 😂. I feel like there will be lots of canceled inart POs. Here's to all the HT 🔥 from today! Can't wait for the live on Friday!
Acolyte talk is banned on this channel lol
@@KeCoCollects I knew that would get ya 😏
You need to consider the relationship betwen Disney and Hottoys. And think about when will Hottoys release the Joker.
I think I'm missing what you are trying to say
InArt ain't never coming back to Will Foxification, but you are speaking a lot of truths. 👍😁
Truth has nothing to fear from honest investigation 👍🏻
This is why I’m loyal to just hot toys. I’d rather wait for them to release their products. Grievous is a great example. Why buy the sideshow version when you can wait for a higher quality product from hot toys.
I get what you are saying, but nothing is ever guaranteed... but when the pieces fall in place, it's pretty cool
Took the words right out my mouth
💥 boom
I don't know why but I can only hear you in one of my headphones. I can hear background music in both of them tho.
Cheers mate!
That was on the mic setting. I'll fix it for next time 😮💨
Thought it was only me. 😂
Glad you made this video!
To be honest I’m starting to feel a little inconvenient with the way they are operating giving the fact they also claimed they released Pattinson in March… well yeah nowhere to be found.
Now this…they lied to us.
Jon also said they couldn’t give a rooted Heath Joker in 500 dollar because of the license… yeah right.
Definitely thought provoking!
Yea I really want that Batman figure but it honestly looks like it will never actually be available lol. What a joke.
LMAO.... You should see what Todd Mcfarlane announced at SDCC.
Oh I did lol
If you look at the promo image of all the Hot Toys showcase figures, written underneath the Joker promo it states the license is taken from The Joker 2 upcoming movie - might explain how Hot Toys have gotten around the $1k minimum threshold that InArt have stated they were bound to? Does this ger them off the hook? Looking forward to hearing John "The Con" trying to salvage some credibility here.
Unless I'm missing it, I'm not seeing anything that says Joker 2
@@KeCoCollects right at the bottom, under the DX, next to the WB logo, man - "Joker Folie à Deux" which is the name of the sequel
My left ear really enjoyed this video
At least one side did lol. My mic messed up
Can’t forget watchmen keco arguably the best of them all
Say true?
@@KeCoCollects I wish we could get licensed figures of those
Shoot if Hot Toys got Harry Potter I definitely would drop greenbacks on it lol
Incoming perhaps??
Will will see them this weekend at SDCC. Send him in.
He plans to!
@@KeCoCollects hopefully john does another interview soon, where we can maybe have better questions with you there.
I think the MJ angle is a HT issue and nothing to do with Inart. So if HT make another MJ then so be it. That's the chances we take as collectors. As for the joker situation, surely they can't be held accountable if another company makes their own version? Licensing exclusivity is a rare thing these days and Inart was all about giving us premium figures. HT has now caught up.
I'll take as many MJs as people will make
I'd bet they have a different contract than hot toys does.
It would certainly appear so!
Man that shirt is fire lol I can see both yours and Will's viewpoints here, but InArt is offering 4 unique looks for a pretty reasonable price considering the bases and rooted sculpts. I do not blame them here whatsoever, they probably just had a different licensing agreement.
I don't really see an issue here, they can not control what Hot Toys or Warner Bros. does. However, I 100% will continue to criticize their release process and lack of timeliness.
The cost per figure is actually VERY fair. It's just the unfortunate deal of being forced to get potentially one you don't really want just for the look you do.
@KeCoCollects 100% I got you there. Entertaining video as always man.
¿What if HT paid WB a good amount to get the license?
That's very possible
As someone who has more or less stepped away from the collecting community but has the InArt Joker on PO, I just find it a joke how the community is complaining. These companies don’t owe us any explanation. If you don’t like it, don’t buy. It’s all part of the game. Do you see luxury fashion labels putting out reasoning/explanation for why their products are thousands of dollars? No you don’t. This community likes to bitch and moan. The InArt figure will likely be the superior one in quality. If you don’t like InArt’s offering and the fact that you needed to get 2 or 4 figures, simply don’t buy it. KeCo Collects, this isn’t necessarily an attack on you, it’s just my thoughts generally to the collecting community. Hot Toys, InArt, JND … etc … none of them owe us ANY explanation in my opinion.
You are totally correct, and there is plenty of over reactions all the time. Agreed the inART SHOULD be the superior, I think most are just miffed on the entry point where we were told this is the only way to get it. Easy to "not buy" if there is another option - but there wasn't at the time. But alas, we take what we got :)
@@KeCoCollects it could very well be that what InArt has said is what they were mandated. There probably is different agreements for different companies. I don’t think it’s worth worrying and speculating about whether they lied or not. Appreciate your response and great video overall 😊
It’s crazy that they are scurrying around and justifying that high price and that four pack behind “it’s because of the license issue” like what-
Like you said Keco: Stop beating around the bush and be at least honest. Every company needs money and profit that’s clear. It’s they way it is and how they can continue that work but literally lying and playing around is just low
I just released an update video to this with inarts sharing their thoughts
Inart likely was beholden to that $1,000 minimum. They put their offering up for preorder and it must have been a success. Hot Toys gets word, and Howard plays hard ball with WB and negotiates a better deal using the power of his brand. The only reason the Hot Toys one is even an offering is b/c of Inart. Just my opinion obviously, but I don't think there's much more to this.
Perhaps, I would love to hear what goes on behind the scenes!
I still have no sound weird. Oh well
None?? I know the audio was only coming in one headphone
@@KeCoCollects yup just your intro song then nothing. And every other video works. I’m super curious on this one. I traded Optical20 my INART 2 pack because I’m disappointed. I also have another Pennywise INART to part with as well
I’m not even sure what I wanna do at this point. Put $200 down with kit for the two pack already. Not satisfied with some parts of the hot toys joker but part of me would rather take a not so well tailored suit and sculpted hair over paying 1k for the two pack now.
It's a tough decision, but let's wait and see what HT actually is offering and the price .
Constant QC issues, Announcement > Two Year Wait > Release > Another year wait and completing side quests like hobby lobby bases and announcing/ sending figures to “influencers”. No shade for Will, but the fact he is receiving his Harry soon when the majority of us have had radio silence for our Batman is abysmal.
Like Will said, not knocking the advantages in front of him, and happy he puts out great content with it ... but average collector over here is still waiting
@@KeCoCollects Totally agree with Will, you'd be silly to knock that advantage. But InArt is on the hook for answering these questions.. what could be totally innocent and simply teething issues, appears right now to be scummy business practices.
i'm here for the heat 🔥
Strap in baby
Makes no sense, we don’t know the full details of their contract and or WB could have removed that price threshold recently - HT figure looks rushed and Mafex announced they have their 1/12 Phoenix Joker coming soon.
The $1,000 threshold makes sense, before this year, what collectibles exist for The Joker under $1,000?
The hate seems completely unjustified - what would be cool is if InArt can come out and allow people to make modifications to their order and essentially re open new orders for fans just wanting one figure.
We are pretty in the dark, but the speculation breeds good conversations i think
Could the list of new figures that were leaked be real, seeing that General Grievous came out?
👀👀👀 perhaps lol
Your audio is only coming out of the left channel.
Yes -- I'll have that fixed next time
I think John is the one literally said those words lol
I wanted to put that clip in, but I didn't have time to go through the archives. No hate on him, he's just relaying the info he has.
There is a good chance InArt has a different deal to Hot Toys. As hot toys has been making Warner figures for years with single figures. InArt were new to the 1/6 scene and WB license. So it could well be that they have harsher terms than HT. From what I know JazzInc is also under obligation to get minimum prices (1000+) for their 1/6 DC vehicles, so it would make sense inArt also has something like that. So I wouldn't call it scandalous or anything as outrageous. It is unfortunate if you only wanted the one Joker and settled for the 2 or 4 pack to get it, but thats nothing new with hot toys re-releasing Vaders, Spiderman, Iron Man, Batman, Jokers, etc... With every release there is a chance now for a better version down the line, so you have to decide on every release what works for your collection. Don't need to know the internal politics of any company to judge the figures for my collections.
Logical, and well thought out response 👍🏻
This is literally what John said in a livestream. Not everyone can get a license and John said Inart had a hard time getting any license due to HTs global license. The only way to get a limited market release license was to differentiate in price/category/scale which led WB to specify (or Inart to propose) the cost minimum to put them in a higher bracket price point as to not violate WBs license agreement with Hot Toys. This stuff happens literally all the time and John was super transparent about it. JND is likely in a very similar camp and probably has yet another specific set of requirements around their license from WB which may be why their stuff is even higher priced in some ways and even more limited in markets. Occam's razor prevails once again here - the simplest answer is usually the right one and in this instance it's all but a certainty that not all license agreements are the same and Inart, JND and HT all have different license agreements with WB and none of them have lied to us.
@@Sivart321 appreciate this perspective
This is no better time to do what you said many times "Vote with your wallet"
I may have to
R.I.P my wallet 01/25/1989-07/22/24
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
🔥🔥🔥
✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼
I see where your coming from, and I do want answers. I also know hot toys plays games behind the scenes with fake promos and trying to get consumers to pick a side because they don’t want to coexist. This would be a good chest move by them by getting the joker and selling them with a deal from WB. We don’t know what deal hot toys has, so we can’t exactly put all the pressure on inArt. I know we all are rushing to get angry with inArt because of frustration with release time. I guess this is the downside to speaking to the community directly. All the question and frustration go to inArt because they have open communication. Let’s just wait and see before we attack. Maybe just start with questioning.
The questions have been voiced, now we await the answers hopefully
😮
👁️🫦👁️
Hey Keco,
I treat InArt as a startup. Let's be honest they are still new and their shipping problems are getting annoying So I tend to give them some break but this...... This no one can or should be defending! It's absolutely unacceptable. Like many I only wanted the red suit joker and now I will most likely have to PO the Hot Toys one and loose my Joker NRD money (which was A LOT!) just so I can get 3-4 figures instead of a single figure and one I don't want. I am upset
I feel you. The Math is hard to swallow
it amaze me, how people can be in a Uproar about price, When Hot toys takes 5 years to decide make a figure. after the sequel comes out. and another year before you see it. The question should be why NOW?? The Hot Toys is under the "sequel" licensing? I bet different standards. HOT TOYS will get Gaga fig and make up the difference in price.
Totally possible! Though it seems they are actually releasing a Deadpool to coincide with the release of that one
Inart is “in” over their head
Har har
yessss
haha starting your video right now
Enjoy!!
Like you said before..... Possibly is Ozark of the collecting community.... A giant money laundering system... Transparency is everything!
COLLUSION?! Lol
I love my Gandalf, but InArt drives me crazy with their 18 months of mismatched batches.
Correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't the InArt license technically only for non-US customers. Also, with the all the corporate changes at Warners I can see them "altering the deal."
I don't know all the details admittedly, but I think that only a few of their figures (Paul and MJ) are a Global license ... so yes, they are made for primarily non us customers