I wonder if the prevalence of fallen empires in fantasy has something to do with the fact that (in addition that it's a ready-made source of Stuff For Players To Do) most Western fantasy is based upon medieval Europe, and the prevailing attitude among historians for a long time was that the IRL Dark Ages (hence the name) were essentially that kind of post-apocalyptic setting, a period of chaos and weakened civilization in the wake of the fall of Rome, which had left its traces all over the continent. While the historical picture is a lot more complex, that model is still almost assumed if one is creating a Europe-like world, even if the precursors might be a lot more fantastical. (Also..glad I didn't wait until after work to support the Kickstarter, because damn, those Early Birds aren't going to last through my lunch break.)
I actually had written a section into my script about that very topic! I ended up removing it, obviously, but the adherence to a romanticized version of the "dark ages" for our fantasy landscapes is very interesting. It's a sort of liminal space that is easy to populate with adventures and heroes.
This really is at the core of it, to be honest. It also shows how NW-Europe centric the average fantasy setting is. I would love to run a world where the Empire is actually just getting started, in stead of in decline (so the rise of the Roman Empire, to compare it to real history). Or one where the focus is rather on the surviving remnants of the fallen Empire (so like the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantines). You could also go for a setting where for the first time in centuries, they are about to surpass the previous grand civilization (renaissance).
I didn't realize I've already done it in my actual world. Two ancien worlds actually. I should put them more upfront as it's a great storytelling advice you've just put there :)
I am a huge fan of apocalypses in fantasy settings. I think it is a great way to explain why technology only has advanced so far in most fantasy settings. The world keeps being destroyed, keeping major technological advancement at bay - either by the knowledge to use/create being lost or with a lack of many inventors being able to effectively communicate advancements. I've actually incorporated this idea into my current world. There is a god whom all others refuse to name - the god of destruction. Whenever mortals begin to advance "too much" he comes and destroys their cities and technology. The other gods don't really stop him because it doesn't concern them so long as the mortals survive so they can be worshiped. My current game is heading towards this happening again - the players have no idea because they haven't put together the clues yet.
I like the ideas here a lot - but for me, I would need the foundry VTT portion at a much lower tier. I can't justify 200 for digital assets, even though I love your work and DnD in general. Truth be told, if I got the other tier with just the document, I would end up never using it as is - I would end up importing and creating a lot. At that point, I may as well just make everything from scratch.
Can you make a video about writing a story that takes place at the height of a civilization? When the magic or technology is at its peak and people can do absolutely crazy things that nobody has seen before.
One idea I was kicking around is the concept of a wish gone horribly right being the disaster that caused massive destruction in the world the players inhabit and changed the political and geographical landscape... Namely a greedy pirate got a hold of some powerful artifact capable of granting him a single wish.... He wished for all of the gold in the world. (This being a magical fantasy world this of course meant that he magically robbed every dragon in the world, and because dragons have an innate sense for where their gold IS this basically meant that he created a literal sea of gold, that every dragon in the world was now going to converge on simultaneously.... Needless to say said pirate did not survive what came next...) Of course this sea of gold also displaced the actual sea causing massive flooding around it's shores resulting in what would come to be called the dragon mire....(A massive swamp ringing the pile of coins, dotted with mountains and all of this swamp is heavily populated by dragons that just instantly know if you're trying to cross it with any of their gold....)
The fallen empire cycle is the NORMAL state of humanity. Once you see that Egypt, Greece and Rome preceded medieval Europe and informed their beliefs enormously, we suddenly understand why we have this worldview. We’ve had ancient ruins for almost the entire length of civilisation itself. Interesting that Zelda Breath of the Wild was a huge hit because it was a chance to wander a very rich world full of ignorant people who can’t do More than just survive. 💡 The only criticism is that treasure hunting at the castle is hinted at but it’s not viable until endgame. But yeah. Good video.
Weird how this became a base assumption in D&D, but it’s helpful to explain dungeons and I’ve been building it into my current homebrew world.
I wonder if the prevalence of fallen empires in fantasy has something to do with the fact that (in addition that it's a ready-made source of Stuff For Players To Do) most Western fantasy is based upon medieval Europe, and the prevailing attitude among historians for a long time was that the IRL Dark Ages (hence the name) were essentially that kind of post-apocalyptic setting, a period of chaos and weakened civilization in the wake of the fall of Rome, which had left its traces all over the continent. While the historical picture is a lot more complex, that model is still almost assumed if one is creating a Europe-like world, even if the precursors might be a lot more fantastical.
(Also..glad I didn't wait until after work to support the Kickstarter, because damn, those Early Birds aren't going to last through my lunch break.)
I actually had written a section into my script about that very topic! I ended up removing it, obviously, but the adherence to a romanticized version of the "dark ages" for our fantasy landscapes is very interesting. It's a sort of liminal space that is easy to populate with adventures and heroes.
This really is at the core of it, to be honest. It also shows how NW-Europe centric the average fantasy setting is. I would love to run a world where the Empire is actually just getting started, in stead of in decline (so the rise of the Roman Empire, to compare it to real history). Or one where the focus is rather on the surviving remnants of the fallen Empire (so like the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantines). You could also go for a setting where for the first time in centuries, they are about to surpass the previous grand civilization (renaissance).
I didn't realize I've already done it in my actual world. Two ancien worlds actually. I should put them more upfront as it's a great storytelling advice you've just put there :)
I am a huge fan of apocalypses in fantasy settings. I think it is a great way to explain why technology only has advanced so far in most fantasy settings. The world keeps being destroyed, keeping major technological advancement at bay - either by the knowledge to use/create being lost or with a lack of many inventors being able to effectively communicate advancements.
I've actually incorporated this idea into my current world. There is a god whom all others refuse to name - the god of destruction. Whenever mortals begin to advance "too much" he comes and destroys their cities and technology. The other gods don't really stop him because it doesn't concern them so long as the mortals survive so they can be worshiped. My current game is heading towards this happening again - the players have no idea because they haven't put together the clues yet.
I'm running a session in an hour was just thinking about this subject. You just sparked a sweet idea, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Technically, the whole King Arthur story is set in the post apocalyptic landscape of Rome abandoning Britain.
I like the ideas here a lot - but for me, I would need the foundry VTT portion at a much lower tier. I can't justify 200 for digital assets, even though I love your work and DnD in general. Truth be told, if I got the other tier with just the document, I would end up never using it as is - I would end up importing and creating a lot. At that point, I may as well just make everything from scratch.
Can you make a video about writing a story that takes place at the height of a civilization? When the magic or technology is at its peak and people can do absolutely crazy things that nobody has seen before.
I absolutely love your videos. I have been using your CoS videos and this one is awesome. Just backed your Kickstarter too ^.^ Best of luck!
Awesome, thank you!
this is why Dark Sun will always be S Tier setting
One man’s trash is another man’s ancient relic
One idea I was kicking around is the concept of a wish gone horribly right being the disaster that caused massive destruction in the world the players inhabit and changed the political and geographical landscape... Namely a greedy pirate got a hold of some powerful artifact capable of granting him a single wish.... He wished for all of the gold in the world. (This being a magical fantasy world this of course meant that he magically robbed every dragon in the world, and because dragons have an innate sense for where their gold IS this basically meant that he created a literal sea of gold, that every dragon in the world was now going to converge on simultaneously.... Needless to say said pirate did not survive what came next...)
Of course this sea of gold also displaced the actual sea causing massive flooding around it's shores resulting in what would come to be called the dragon mire....(A massive swamp ringing the pile of coins, dotted with mountains and all of this swamp is heavily populated by dragons that just instantly know if you're trying to cross it with any of their gold....)
Yeah the physical book prices are bonkers. Kindle price is decent though
Are the adventures for your Kickstarter already finished, or still in progress?
Finished!
Great advice, as always!
Glad you think so!
amazing video! Keep them coming haha also can you add content for PF2e?
The fallen empire cycle is the NORMAL state of humanity. Once you see that Egypt, Greece and Rome preceded medieval Europe and informed their beliefs enormously, we suddenly understand why we have this worldview. We’ve had ancient ruins for almost the entire length of civilisation itself.
Interesting that Zelda Breath of the Wild was a huge hit because it was a chance to wander a very rich world full of ignorant people who can’t do
More than just survive. 💡
The only criticism is that treasure hunting at the castle is hinted at but it’s not viable until endgame.
But yeah. Good video.
Interestingly, the original concept for this video was world building lessons from Legend of Zelda. Obviously I pivoted away from that, but yeah
I like the use of AI art in the video. Midjourney?
Yup! Always handy in a pinch.
@@LunchBreakHeroes yeah I use it to provide NPC images and concept drawings of rooms they enter in my games