You keep giving a nervous self-deprecating laugh after making a statement, Joyce. Your observations are strong, valid, and succinct. You should own them and feel proud and confident -- you have more than merited such an award and are good at what you do.
I appreciate the encouragement, John! My nerves still get the better of me from time to time, but I'm slowly learning to be more confident as I speak. Thank you for noticing.
@@johnknight9150 INFJ here, of course I can't speak for all of us, but I think is a natural reflex we have when we are exposed to a bunch of different people hearing our deep thoughts without reading a script. Even if we are quite confident in what we know, we also know it might not get across the right way as we want it or think of it in our mind, it can be misunderstood or in many cases be come off as arrogant and know-it-alls so we make silly jokes about ourselves or laugh awkwardly to try to release some tension?.... I don't know, at least that is me haha. I actually Admire Joyce and Frank a lot because I would be a awkward laughing mess if I tried to do this kind of videos on UA-cam.
Te seeks the shortest route between an starting point and an objective Ne seeks the shortest route to connect one concept to another one. That's why it helps to think of things as "hacking", since hacking is finding the shortcut too. Te is logical outsmarting, Ne is basically abstract outsmarting. Ni knows the long route and Ne knows the shortcuts between one point and the other, quite regularly in a somewhat controversial manner that excites them. The extroverted functions seem to like challenges more than the introverted ones. The introverted ones are slower and take the saver long road.
Yes!! Fantastic insights as always. :) Extroverted functions prefer to shortcut as you said. I refer to Fe as shortcut-ing a sense of identity by being a social chameleon.
1 of my friends told me before that I'm always looking for shortcuts lol now I know why. I'm a Te dom. I wonder what type she is. She picks something and sticks with it then expands from there. She's had her stuff together since she was in her 20s. She learned from her mother's mistakes. Thanks for sharing your insights.
I think it would be worthwhile for understanding Ni and Ne to go back and look at what Dario Nardi has described. Ne uses “Christmas tree lights” patterns when processing information, meaning it is run through everything the Ne person already knows to find connections and Ni, when with low stimulus, will use their whole brain at once (not Christmas tree) to solve a problem. As always, I hope the idea that all functions are different but equal will come across.
i have a question. Ne seems like the perfect function for 'play' and as someone who has Ni, I'm wondering, how can ppl with Ni be more playful and engage in more play?
I think that applies to every adult tbh. My suggestion is to try new things not to be good at them or be competitive but to enjoy them it simply seems what they are like
Very good exploration of how the two work . Now I understand myself better and my place so far as the exact points we differ in, given that I have that NI reference
Thanks a million for the discussion. 1.Ok,i have this tendency.I spend a great deal of time over imagined conversations, especially when i am alone and some of the thoughts are random. 2.I tend to connect points in an inductive way. ARE THESE Ni or Ne. Thanks
So Ni is basically like J (judging) manifested in the form of intuition, and Ne is like P (Peceiving) manifested in the form of intuition... Now it makes sense why every personality with a J in their cognitive stack never has Ne in their top 2 dominant functions (& vice versa; every personality with a P never has Ni their top 2 dominant functions). Once one is a Perceiver (or as l like to call them, "Subjective thinkers" who like to see things as mostly subjective with many possibilities) they automatically can't have Ni as a dominant function... Similarly, once one is a Judger (an Objective thinker who likes to boil down all subjective possibilities into one Objective reality/truth), they can't have Ne as a dominant function... It seems like Perceiving and Judging are intrinsically entangled/linked to Ni and Ne (particularly for the intuitive xNxx types). If my summation is true, that means Ni is essentially Objective Intuition, and Ne is Subjective Intuition.
32:58 I thought it's the opposite. To me (as an Ne-blind ISFP) it can be hard enough to just understand some relatively more complex Ti system (for example a type system that I never read about before (other than that specific type system's name)), that can be hard enough, but if I get an Ne talking style explanation of that system (from an ENTP or an INTP), then there is a high chance that I won't understand a big chunks of that explanation, simply because when I'm listening to that Ne-talk-style explanation, there is just too many words (to my Ne-blind brain at least). The other big problem can occur for me is the vast amount of synonyms that ne users tend to use in their Ne-talk-style explanations. To my brain, when trying to understand a relatively difficult concept, synonyms get very distracting, because now that the Ne user said that synonym I have a new thought in my mind in paralell while still trying to listening to his/her explanation, and that thought is usually something like this: "Did he/she really meant 100% precisely the same thing with that synonym and he/she just talking in his/her wide-vocabulary-Ne-talk-style, or maybe he/she meant a slightly different thing with that synonym, but he/she is unaware of that slight difference, because he/she considers that word he/she used as a 100% precisely same meaning synonym?"
My mom is isfj but she is also someone who likes to summarize things more, while I as an enfp son tend to be more expansive in what I say with walls of text haha.
How is ne seeing divergent things and "connecting" them into one thing different from ni "distillation" of several things into one thing? That sounds pretty much the same.
"It is what it is" is something I have observed coming from the mouths of Se users. In some ways it is a good thing since so much around us can't be changed, so why waste valuable time and energy trying? On the other hand, there are some situations which annoy us and are arbitrary social constructs that can be changed with some effort but the Se users just "let it be" since they perceive the situation as immutable...or so I think 😀
Yep... Ayn Rand's essay "The Metaphysical vs. the Man-Made" deals with that distinction and the problems people have with it at length. Also, Leonard Peikoff's chapter 1, "Reality", of his book "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand".
Joyce I'm doubtful that your type is FF NiTi SCPB. Thing is that you are consistently applying emocional pressure towards positivity some times at the cost of ti. So I think that your type is FM NiTi SCPB.
You're implying I could be M-Fe right? It's possible. One of my close friends thinks so too. I'm planning to have a call with Dave and Shan to ask about it one day =]
NE feels like your brain wants to drink the entire universe in both the current and all future variations. It feels like the auditory system where the input stream is omni-directional. It feels like your mind is exploding outward in both space and time to touch what can be sensed and to attempt to predict all iterations of what can happen.
Huge fan of Joyce Meng's channel. Going through and watching all videos from the first up through the last (and marking Like on everyone single one). Good Job!
Also, INFJ and INTJ sometimes feel more like predators in the sense that they lock on to a future and make it happen through action where NE users like INTPs feel a little bit more like prey in that they sense in order to detect and avoid without filtering towards a goal but filtering towards detection. You will often see an INTJ lock on to a future outcome he wants and become the person he needs to be now in order to impose his will on the present and make his future predictions become the new reality he imagined was possible. Whereas, you will often see an INTP off to the side picking a single blade of grass (which seems entirely unrelated to the current goal) because he is attempting to use his perception of future outcomes combined with the butterfly effect of causal connections to expend the least amount of effort and achieve some future state. INTPs will do things that seem unrelated to a goal when relating to other people if they feel the action increases the probability that the environment as whole will be probabilistically more likely to arrive at a given outcome without as much effort on their part. (Other times just seeing clearly the universe of possibilities is the objective and the action feels soul crushingly prescriptive..)
You keep giving a nervous self-deprecating laugh after making a statement, Joyce. Your observations are strong, valid, and succinct. You should own them and feel proud and confident -- you have more than merited such an award and are good at what you do.
I appreciate the encouragement, John! My nerves still get the better of me from time to time, but I'm slowly learning to be more confident as I speak. Thank you for noticing.
@@JoyceMeng22 Frank James does something similar quite a lot. Is this an INFJ thing?
@@johnknight9150 INFJ here, of course I can't speak for all of us, but I think is a natural reflex we have when we are exposed to a bunch of different people hearing our deep thoughts without reading a script. Even if we are quite confident in what we know, we also know it might not get across the right way as we want it or think of it in our mind, it can be misunderstood or in many cases be come off as arrogant and know-it-alls so we make silly jokes about ourselves or laugh awkwardly to try to release some tension?.... I don't know, at least that is me haha. I actually Admire Joyce and Frank a lot because I would be a awkward laughing mess if I tried to do this kind of videos on UA-cam.
Te seeks the shortest route between an starting point and an objective
Ne seeks the shortest route to connect one concept to another one. That's why it helps to think of things as "hacking", since hacking is finding the shortcut too. Te is logical outsmarting, Ne is basically abstract outsmarting. Ni knows the long route and Ne knows the shortcuts between one point and the other, quite regularly in a somewhat controversial manner that excites them.
The extroverted functions seem to like challenges more than the introverted ones. The introverted ones are slower and take the saver long road.
Yes!! Fantastic insights as always. :) Extroverted functions prefer to shortcut as you said. I refer to Fe as shortcut-ing a sense of identity by being a social chameleon.
@Mr X INTP
@Mr X and thanks! It could be related to enneagram 6, but I have hardly any knowledge about enneagram
1 of my friends told me before that I'm always looking for shortcuts lol now I know why. I'm a Te dom. I wonder what type she is. She picks something and sticks with it then expands from there. She's had her stuff together since she was in her 20s. She learned from her mother's mistakes. Thanks for sharing your insights.
@@icanrelate That makes sense (about you). I am not sure which type she is based on these few things you said about her
Ne expands ideas. Ni narrows down ideas.
Ni is a tortoise (slow) because of Se
Ne is a bunny (faster) because of Si is already "Organized"
Thanks to both of you for this informative discussion on Ni-Ne bringing further clarity to me. 🙏❤ISFP
"Si: human order
Ni: nature order
Se: human chaos
Ne: nature chaos"
😲😲😲 I'd love an elaboration on this!!
As if humans are not part of nature
Me talking to my grandmother: Oh wow, are those new curtains?
Grandma: I've had those for 3 years. You never notice anything.
Ni - spiral in
Ne - spiral out
Yep! Right on, Sem. 😃
Keep Going!
Thanks for complimenting my attention span.
Only managed to watch over 40 mins because it's good content!
NIC!! :') THAT'S SO KIND
@@JoyceMeng22 NO IT'S HONEST! :)
I think it would be worthwhile for understanding Ni and Ne to go back and look at what Dario Nardi has described. Ne uses “Christmas tree lights” patterns when processing information, meaning it is run through everything the Ne person already knows to find connections and Ni, when with low stimulus, will use their whole brain at once (not Christmas tree) to solve a problem. As always, I hope the idea that all functions are different but equal will come across.
I felt you explored the differences with Ne and Ni well
Thank you, @malikyo0 💜!!
in a fast pace society i really dread having Ni and how it works so slowly.
I feel you! Having Ni can be hard in a society that values immediacy and speed of response.
Where can one find the Dario Nardi talk on Ne? I'm super curious to learn more about how to create our own flow state.
i have a question. Ne seems like the perfect function for 'play' and as someone who has Ni, I'm wondering, how can ppl with Ni be more playful and engage in more play?
I think that applies to every adult tbh. My suggestion is to try new things not to be good at them or be competitive but to enjoy them it simply seems what they are like
Very good exploration of how the two work . Now I understand myself better and my place so far as the exact points we differ in, given that I have that NI reference
Great description of Ne vs Ni
Thanks a million for the discussion.
1.Ok,i have this tendency.I spend a great deal of time over imagined conversations, especially when i am alone and some of the thoughts are random.
2.I tend to connect points in an inductive way.
ARE THESE Ni or Ne.
Thanks
"Ne = extrapolation; Ni = synthesis"
Would that in include their counterparts?
Ne = extrapolation/interpolation; Ni = synthesis/analysis?
I've heard people say Ne means creative connection
Pinging is our natural flow state, warp speed 💫💜
So Ni is basically like J (judging) manifested in the form of intuition, and Ne is like P (Peceiving) manifested in the form of intuition... Now it makes sense why every personality with a J in their cognitive stack never has Ne in their top 2 dominant functions (& vice versa; every personality with a P never has Ni their top 2 dominant functions).
Once one is a Perceiver (or as l like to call them, "Subjective thinkers" who like to see things as mostly subjective with many possibilities) they automatically can't have Ni as a dominant function... Similarly, once one is a Judger (an Objective thinker who likes to boil down all subjective possibilities into one Objective reality/truth), they can't have Ne as a dominant function... It seems like Perceiving and Judging are intrinsically entangled/linked to Ni and Ne (particularly for the intuitive xNxx types).
If my summation is true, that means Ni is essentially Objective Intuition, and Ne is Subjective Intuition.
32:58
I thought it's the opposite.
To me (as an Ne-blind ISFP) it can be hard enough to just understand some relatively more complex Ti system (for example a type system that I never read about before (other than that specific type system's name)), that can be hard enough, but if I get an Ne talking style explanation of that system (from an ENTP or an INTP), then there is a high chance that I won't understand a big chunks of that explanation, simply because when I'm listening to that Ne-talk-style explanation, there is just too many words (to my Ne-blind brain at least).
The other big problem can occur for me is the vast amount of synonyms that ne users tend to use in their Ne-talk-style explanations.
To my brain, when trying to understand a relatively difficult concept, synonyms get very distracting, because now that the Ne user said that synonym I have a new thought in my mind in paralell while still trying to listening to his/her explanation, and that thought is usually something like this: "Did he/she really meant 100% precisely the same thing with that synonym and he/she just talking in his/her wide-vocabulary-Ne-talk-style,
or maybe he/she meant a slightly different thing with that synonym, but he/she is unaware of that slight difference, because he/she considers that word he/she used as a 100% precisely same meaning synonym?"
My mom is isfj but she is also someone who likes to summarize things more, while I as an enfp son tend to be more expansive in what I say with walls of text haha.
I do positive procrastination 🌼 and rename a routine as a pattern. Kinda trying to outsmart myself 😆😎
Great job girls from an a western Aussie INFP.
I love my aux Ne. It is the thing that makes me funny and interesting. Brilliance in a flash.
Kaleidoscope and feather maybe 🤔 lovin it. Chaos order fly spider ☀️
How is ne seeing divergent things and "connecting" them into one thing different from ni "distillation" of several things into one thing?
That sounds pretty much the same.
This confirmed I am not an extroverted intuitive.
In breath and out breath 💫
"It is what it is" is something I have observed coming from the mouths of Se users. In some ways it is a good thing since so much around us can't be changed, so why waste valuable time and energy trying?
On the other hand, there are some situations which annoy us and are arbitrary social constructs that can be changed with some effort but the Se users just "let it be" since they perceive the situation as immutable...or so I think 😀
As an INFP with NE "it is what it is" is a terrible idea as there are always possibilities
Yep... Ayn Rand's essay "The Metaphysical vs. the Man-Made" deals with that distinction and the problems people have with it at length. Also, Leonard Peikoff's chapter 1, "Reality", of his book "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand".
As a child I wondered why some kids thought they were better than the others. I didn't see a difference other than them being snobby. Is that Ni?
Joyce I'm doubtful that your type is FF NiTi SCPB.
Thing is that you are consistently applying emocional pressure
towards positivity some times at the cost of ti.
So I think that your type is FM NiTi SCPB.
You're implying I could be M-Fe right? It's possible. One of my close friends thinks so too. I'm planning to have a call with Dave and Shan to ask about it one day =]
Where can I test myself for this type?
@@mcgil8891 You can get theory from here ua-cam.com/users/DaveSuperPowers
@@mcgil8891 there is also a facebook group " unofficial objective personality study group "
@@tomasg9795 thanks!
NE feels like your brain wants to drink the entire universe in both the current and all future variations. It feels like the auditory system where the input stream is omni-directional. It feels like your mind is exploding outward in both space and time to touch what can be sensed and to attempt to predict all iterations of what can happen.
Huge fan of Joyce Meng's channel. Going through and watching all videos from the first up through the last (and marking Like on everyone single one). Good Job!
Also, INFJ and INTJ sometimes feel more like predators in the sense that they lock on to a future and make it happen through action where NE users like INTPs feel a little bit more like prey in that they sense in order to detect and avoid without filtering towards a goal but filtering towards detection.
You will often see an INTJ lock on to a future outcome he wants and become the person he needs to be now in order to impose his will on the present and make his future predictions become the new reality he imagined was possible.
Whereas, you will often see an INTP off to the side picking a single blade of grass (which seems entirely unrelated to the current goal) because he is attempting to use his perception of future outcomes combined with the butterfly effect of causal connections to expend the least amount of effort and achieve some future state. INTPs will do things that seem unrelated to a goal when relating to other people if they feel the action increases the probability that the environment as whole will be probabilistically more likely to arrive at a given outcome without as much effort on their part. (Other times just seeing clearly the universe of possibilities is the objective and the action feels soul crushingly prescriptive..)
Attention spans aeons when it's wide and deep enough 💫🧘🌼
This video is an INTJ drool session.
Gestalt
You know that girl who talks to much 😏 lol jk