INTJ here. Re: Fi users giving Te reasons for things, it's parallel to how you have difficulty explaining your logic (because it doesn't directly connect to the outside world). Fi actually does have a lot of non-Te reasons for things, but they're very difficult to explain succinctly. Our Te reasons are usually descriptive of our values, rather than prescriptive. We don't like/dislike things strictly or solely _because of_ the stated reasons, but they do -- within the given context -- give an approximation of our perspective. It's like looking at a watery reflection: it's not the actual thing, but it gets the idea across (as far as we're concerned). I think that's one of the main ways that Ti/Fe users commonly misunderstand/misconstrue our reasoning, because they rarely pick up on any context that isn't made blatantly obvious (just like Te often oversimplifies Ti).
My brother is an INTP, and he is very, very smart. He has so many creative, interesting ideas; he wants to be a filmmaker and I think he'll be a really good one someday. But one thing he does that drives me crazy as a Te and/or Se user (I haven't narrowed down my own type completely yet, but I'm sure I have at least one of those functions) is that he can THINK about doing something that he plans to do pretty much indefinitely without ever actually DOING it. He'll say, "I kind of need a new office chair," and then six weeks later he's still saying it and still hasn't even gone to look at any. Finally, someone else has to say, "Alright, let's go buy one, then!" and he always looks sort of shocked, and says something like, "Wait... today?!"
Another thing about Fi users is ..if you force them to share their emotions when they’re not ready, they can get angry. I think bc they hold their emotions tightly, so it feels invasive to them.
Spacey's got it right with flipping into Te as a Ti Dom. I'm a manager and I tend to trust people to figure it out quite a bit, probably assuming they can work like my Ti brain. If they prove to me they can't, I think we tend to flip into a ENTJ superego and kind of have the "F it, I'll handle it and do it live, then!!!", Lol. But when im around a high Te user I feel like a baby who can't do anything... Or we clash about whether we should figure things out later (alone, Ti) or right now (on a call, Te)
@@dxfifa well it depends. if the way you handle is based on curent understanding of external world (Te) and you perceive external detail (Se), then you use Te. i guess oftentimes we imitate Te yes. But, sometimes i don't. i believe functions is more fluid that we thought.
This was probably the best TypeTalk thus far, really valuable information here, at least for me as an Fi/Te user INFP. I really appreciate the thoughts you guys gave on Fi, what doesn't make sense to you and how you on the other hand appreciate them. Sometimes I can feel kind of wrong or useless as an Fi dom, because my emotions are so strong and I'm not really that logical all the time, but I can't really help being the way that I am either. So yeah, hopefully we can see more discussion about how different function users interact with the opposites--what works and what causes friction. It's very interesting and helps me to understand humans better, which is one of my main Fi goals in life I suppose haha. Thank you!
ENFP here! Such a great conversation to be able to listen in on! I just wanted to say that I cannot relate enough to what Boris said around the 24 minute mark about his difficulty around Fe users. This is where I find most challenges and miscommunication crops up when I’m engaging with high Fe users - especially those I’m close to. There seems to be a resistance to being completely transparent about your own personal feelings, and as an Fi user I find it a bit disappointing when I open up to someone and they respond with the “appropriate” social/emotional behaviour. For me, bonding and intimacy happen when both parties allow themselves to be vulnerable with each other. However, I definitely do not want to downplay how much I appreciate the care and compassion my Fe friends provide me with. When I am truly struggling with something, you guys are always there to make me feel better. When I’m being embraced by Fe kindness I feel like I’m literally the most important person in the world, and my feelings are validated. Love you guys, and love learning more about you :)
(INFP) I can definitely relate. My Fe friends are always looking out and caring for me while disregarding their own feelings sometimes. I feel sort of guilty for not being able to reciprocate in the same way many times. And yeah, sometimes I want to tell Fe dom/aux to just speak their honest opinion lol! Like, I want to know YOUR true feelings.
@@era1442 yes. We definitely have such different approaches to the concept of over-sharing. Few things make an Fi user happier than being in an environment where everyone feels comfortable sharing their honest thoughts and feelings, but I think for a lot of Fe users that kind of environment is highly stress-inducing, because honest thoughts can be hurtful and uncomfortable at times. But I think Fi users feel we can push forward because we inherently trust our values to steer us in the right direction (because we literally spend so much time figuring out what they are, and how to follow them) And esp xNFPs I think feel very well equipped with our Ne that even if something does go wrong as a result of our over sharing, we’ll figure out how to fix it.
Very useful panel for me (intj). Thanks for opening up about Fe! It was strange to see the "timidness" of it but I've definitely seen the reluctance to share opinions. Meanwhile Fi can't wait to share something to shock the group 😉
I loved to see Spacey talking about Fe, how he was naturally talking about his inferior function. And I would say that I (ISTJ) tend to feel some sort of a resonant peace when I'm with ISFJ's.
Okay good, Joyce, you came back to the Fe/Fi thing. YES, we want to guard your sense of you because that MATTERS. Your uniqueness is really important! NOBODY else can bring to the world what YOU can and that goes for everyone. If you don't do it, who will??? Being yourself is just as important as the group harmony. There's a time and a place for both. Woooowww, this is blowing my mind what y'all are saying about it being so hard to see people as individuals. Whoaaaaa. Great insight here! This is really helping me understand Fe users!
This was SUPER interesting! I have several Ti/Fe users in my life so it's great to hear their perspective. INTJ here. I have an ENTP boss and Boris was spot on about the timing issue. I am the one pushing him to complete things. And he's wanting to hold off and wait longer. It's difficult for me because I feel very unsettled when I'm waiting. I am far more productive in my side business when I can control the work pace. I'd rather be getting things done and be productive than waiting. My work quality is top notch even when I move fast so usually there is no justification for us to keep waiting. Taking long does not necessarily mean a better outcome. It very often just ends up wasting time. Also, he is very resistant to doing any Te with me so that's a struggle. He tends to just keep his door closed all the time when he's using Ti, I assume, or he's running around, doing something else and unavailable. It's frustrating for me. That being said, I really like it when we do talk because of our Ni/Ne dynamic. And also the few instances when he does use Te, it's really fun and satisfying for me and really helps me.
On the Fe placating part, high Fe users have a tendency to be too people pleasing. They prioritize social harmony. I've noticed my Fe user friends are almost terrified to rock the boat if they share their authentic opinions and i just want to shake them and tell them it's okay, the harmony will be okay 😭. Sometimes the harmony is disturbed because of lack of authenticity and that compulsion to keep things '' peaceful''. I love them but also want to shake them but also hug them.
Great conversation!! Yeah the Fe/Te struggle is real. For example, my INFJ mom would FREAK OUT when during one of our philosophical conversations, I (an INTJ) would try to explain why I understood, in theory, some psychological reason for why a bad person might do something. I was just perspective-shifting and seeing the Te reasons from that “bad” person’s perspective. It’s as if she thought I was trying to condone and justify their behavior and I was absolutely not! I was just examining the psychological underpinnings, for example, of why a person’s toxic childhood might create more of a tendency for them to commit some crime. She could NOT understand how I did that. She would TOTALLY misunderstood me and as I tried to explain my reasoning, it just made it worse. 😂 It wasn’t funny at the time because we had our moments where we could not communicate. I would be pleading that she was misunderstanding me and she would just go silent and look away, clearly communicating that she didn’t get me. It hurt me at the time (and clearly her as well) and I’m glad now I understand what was happening, but she passed away many years ago, before I was able to determine if she was an INFJ or ISFJ. Yeah, so because of that I’ve often been pretty sure that I need to be with an Te/Fi user. It sucks though because I LOVE INFJs but I feel they just don’t get me and I get hurt by them a lot. My first girlfriend was an INFJ and we had the same struggles. She was incredibly sensitive and misunderstood me a lot and could not seem to get passed her interpretations even though I tried hard to explain. I am not sure if I would have these same struggles with ENFJs (who I also adore) because frankly it’s harder to get close to them to really know what they are thinking/feeling…which is another issue.
That is Fi not Fe that your mother was using. Fe users almost always understand what you're doing because they do all have Ti for their inner world... Even if they choose not to use it often. You are also an Fi user. It shows both of you were Fe blind, refusing to compromise to understand each other. Everything you are saying is pretty much as Fi/Te as it gets, and it shows how Fi you are to be blind to it and think it's Fe Fi people really struggle when others don't feel the same way they would, as they almost always use empathy rather than sympathy. And if they can't imagine themselves feeling that way in that position, they usually don't care. Fe users tend to use general social logic and their knowledge of the person to superimpose a simplistic projection of the other person and analyse how the other person probably feels in their position, not how a fully understood version of yourself would feel
@@dxfifa Hmm, you have a good point there. Maybe it was her 6th slot Fi. As an INFJ, she did have access to her Fi as her critical parent function and I do see that same dynamic in ISFJs as well, (who also have 6th slot Fi) which sucks because otherwise, I typically really love ISFJs but they hurt me when they try to shut me down emotionally. Yes, maybe it’s Fi, but it’s a poor usage of Fi. They are critical of personal feelings and try to tell you how you should or should not feel. They actually try to shut you down when you’re expressing your feelings. I’ve got 3 INFPs VERY close and longterm relationships and they’re totally different. 🥰 My INFP best friend, ex-wife and girlfriend NEVER did/do that. They are always respectful of my feelings. A front stack Fi user is more likely to respect your different feelings whereas the 6th slot Fi user is less accepting.
38:20 yes yes yes. I'm an XNFP in a corporation and I agree with everything Boris said. Not necessarily that I want to "matter", no, I don't think I matter at all in the grand scheme of things because I'm just one replaceable person in a huge corporation. That doesn't bother me, I could care less about their corporation. My main struggle I think is the fact that I have to use a lot of Fe to play the "politics". When I use Fi and I'm being myself I tend to be very bubbly and quirky which is what people in such formal environments really dislike. I can play the corporate game really well when I focus on my Te, but when Fi comes back I tend to get annoyed/frustrated/unhappy. I think my ideal career path would be freelancer or having my own company.
I'm an intj woman and have an entp son. Our creative "what if" conversations are some of my favorites and confuse my esfp husband. Lol My daughter is an esfj and she uses her entp bro as (she says) her support human. I value how entps are consistent, curious, smart and no emotional bs. Though every once in a while I do check in emotionally (as best I can) with my entp son. "You still alive?" is typically how I start off. Lol
You guys! Feelings don't need to be "backed up" or "rational". That's the whole point of your feelings. THEY just are what they are. And that is valid in and of itself. Ooohhhh Joyce that's a good point about the FJs not being able to handle an unexpected disagreement. That explains a lot. I have delayed responses sometimes though. I have them often enough that it's annoying to me. But maybe it's not as much as an FJ user? I'm curious to know more about that. I LOVE this panel!
There are communication gaps with High Fi user people in my life. It’s very much like what Joyce and Natalie said when I’m like communicating an Fe passion or feeling and they don’t give me a response right away or at all. One thing I really do admire about High Fi is there ability to really know what they feel and the authenticity. The love from my high Fi user friends and family really does feel real. Also, I think both Ti and Fi like to go deep the former in the realm of logic and the latter in the realm of ethics. To me, as a Ti user I like to spend time analyzing and trying to figure out why I think this or that. To me, it seems like Te users just care too much about the efficient and logical results at the expense of depth of logic. On the flip side, I’m sure Fi can see Fe as lack depth in the realm of ethics. I’m an ISFJ so (Fe 2nd) and (Ti 3rd).
I know two ESTJ really well and they are really different like Boris is saying. They are both very serious about getting the job done but one of them is just hilarious and fun much of the time, as long as things are being accomplished. The other one never cracks a smile. I love ESTJs in general though. I really respect their work ethic a lot and love working with them because we work really well together and are super productive together, even the ones who can't seem to lighten up. :-)
Yeaaah when there's no one to calm people for example in a stressful sitiation or no one to bring back harmony to the group, i will take it but otherwise no
This video helped me realize my mom is mistyped as Fe-ti (entp) when she’s actually Fi-te (enfp) She is rarely ever motivated by the group by is always motivated by her personal feelings which actually are very inconsistent like was mentioned here. She is a doctor, and I think her interest in science is what caused her to be mistyped. BUT enfp use Te, so they can be scientific as well…it will just present in a different way. I always feel the need to talk about the big picture of how things affect humanity as a whole, and her response is “ok but how does that affect me?” It seemed dispassionate like I wasn’t receiving the feedback I need to ping pong as you say. Now I totally understand where the disconnect comes from.
This is so relatable! A well balanced discussion on the positives and negatives of both sides coming from Ti and Fe users. The conversation flowed nicely too.
I wish this was a longer video. So valuable content ❣️ I really liked when you said the higher Fe is insecure to speak about their Ti logic. I resonate with that. A lot of times I am not sure if my logic is correct and I tend to ask the tribe what is their opinion on things and than I internalize it and look for my own truth.. I was not sure if I am FeTi in the middle or TeFi, after watching this video I am more inclined to FeTi
It's interesting cause I feel like for me, it's the opposite. Im usually pretty confident in what I know unless it's a topic I haven't learned. However I'm usually unsure of how people will respond or are feeling in the group. So I'd rather just keep my ti logic to myself so I won't upset anyone or ruin the group vibe. I'll end up just saying, "I'll do whatever you guys wanna do" or just do my own thing in the way I've thought through
This panel was super interesting. You guys have a good understanding of Fi/Te. It's interesting to see how you view our preferred functions. And Spacey's cat is warming my heart and making me laugh at the same time. 💓💗💓💗
just don't ask fi users why. observe them and come up with your own explanations for their behaviours. there's always a reason, there is always a cause, there's always a pattern. including the music they like. if it's not genre, then it might the mood. if not mood then it might be vocals, if not vocals it might be wall of sound, if not wall of sound maybe it is gothic twin guitars etc. don't expect them to give you super specific ti categorical explanation. don't you like that as a puzzle? i love it. figuring nfps out is very entertaining for me as an entp. why everything must be obvious and super clear? where's the fun or mental stimulation in that? also do not expect them to explain what they feel or what's the problem either. watch their body language, listen to the tone of voice. beeeep, beeep as a robot i must tell you my battery is at %10 so charge me up please. can't you tell robot needs charging when it start acting slower or whatever? also be proactive. make them feel new stuff instead of trying to fix how hey feel now. show that you care, show that you feel with them. when tell you about the guy from work say "what a sonnuva bitch!" and then say "oh noes! and then what happened?" they generally do not want or need fixing, they want to be heard and they want to be understood.
@@demogorgon4244 I can see that it might be fun if something is complicated to figure out (it keeps Ne busy). However, I am curious if it makes you perceive to be understood with your Ti wiring? For example, I like it when I explain how a something works in myself or someone else explained logically, that the other understands what I am saying and can see the value of it. It feels frustrating to me (personally) to talk to people who do not understand me. Whenever I have miscommunicatoin with my ENFJ girlfriend, it's always about us perceiving things in a different manner with our different perceiving axis, while when we judge things or reason we always understand eachother and have no miscommunication. However, for you your Ti might be more of a Toy and you share your Ne of course, which makes her understand the Ne naturally I would guess? Kinda messy story, but you get the point (I'm about to go sleep)
@@PowerRedBullTypology i find it more enjoyable when i explain a complex ti or fi thing with my ne. for example that phenomenology fi connection comment of mine at binyamin's channel (i read most phenomenologists so i know fi better than fi doms) or when i said "oh, as a ti dom you don't know what you like? then just think in terms of what are some cool things to you. maybe robots or some shit huh?" how do i "ne" explain things exactly? i don't lose myself in details, i get rid of unneccessary details, i simplify things and then i see how x and y and z are variants of each other and coming from a and then i explain something like how demon function of beebe and socionics's role function is exact same thing. i won't get fooled by titles and terminology. my comment above is an ne comment more than a ti one too. i am telling entps and intps: hey, look at from this ne perspective: see infps and enfps just like any other puzzle, try to understand them like any other complex thing, aren't you an explorer? aren't you into wierd stuff? open your mind to the world of fi.
The ENTP talking about flipping into Te mode is definitely something I see with my ENTP coworker. After procrastinating as long as possible, it will get to the point where he's about to be called out for lack of getting anything done and he'll suddenly engage his Te. I LOVE that EXCEPT he does it at the last minute which ticks me off because it usually means that now I have to be in panic mode with him. I hate that. I've been trying to work all along in a good pace somewhere between the rabbit and the tortoise and he flips from one extreme to the other. It drives me crazy and stresses me out as an introvert who does NOT do well with sudden changes. He'll literally ask me 1 minute before a conference call to take over and lead part of the meeting when I have had no warning. It's actually pretty disrespectful. But it's so easy for him to just fly by the seat of his pants that he doesn't realize what kind of position he's putting me in. Fortunately he doesn't do that too often. He knows now that I don't like it at all.
I'm so proud of Joyce being able to share what Fe is in such a positive manner. It is afraid of sharing too much info because it is afraid of breaching what is comfortable in the atmosphere. Very true. The Fe-Ti axis is arguably the highest energy function so it must expend a lot of energy to placate others and thus it must judge if their sacrifice will actually help others. Anyway, fantastic talk!
Agreed on all counts. I am Ti dom and I heard once "You can't use Ti and Fe at the same time" and kind of assumed that was the typical "logic VS feeling" metaphore. Hearing this (I don't hear much about energy in MBTI personally) , I wonder if THIS is the real reason why. It's just too hard to "run" both program functions at the same time. I see my INFJ wife having trouble using both Fe and Ti, but I also notice she CAN seem to use them at the same time but for me, I basically can't. Not fully at least. I chalk that up to them being in her middle slots and both of them function a little less than my Ti at her "full force" but there's some problems she can address much better with a balanced approach, whereas I struggle if my Ti isn't sufficient for a solution. I actually have a youtube video coming out about this literally tomorrow, haha.
@@vazzaroth Energy in MBTI is rarely thought of but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've got a Fi hypothesis but I'll give you the Te guarddog answer anyway. Nardi has measured brain activity of certain activities in "Our brains in color". Certain cognitive activities like maths and use cell phone measure the highest in wattage in his chart.
@@vazzaroth I think you can improve using the inferior function if you’re exposed to a healthy user of it as a dominant function. It just takes practice.
Extremely well put, Andrew. I always enjoy reading your comments whenever you post! Thank you for understanding us Fe-Ti users so well. :) The compulsion to placate and smooth over the emotional tension in a room is real.
The part about the inferior Ti reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where George knows exactly what he would have said hours later, then goes back to the person to try to win the argument. Lol.
Oh yeah I totally spend a lot of time trying to understand people's intentions and also their underlying motivations and what drives them...and what could have caused them to be that way.
I want to dispel the rumor that te is the most bossy….Fe is equally as bossy except knows how to do so in a way that is wrapped in a pretty package lol I have an enfj coworker who has very strong opinions about “appropriateness” like if you do something inappropriate socially or what she deems as “rude,” you will get this sour look as she retreats to talk about what you just did to other co-workers. On the other hand, when she wants you to do something, she knows how to butter you up when asking..which I am fully aware of but appreciate her not being brash unlike my estj coworker. My estj coworker trained me. We got along so well bc I am naturally oblivious to detail, and her direction and extreme attention to detail helped me a lot. It was ONLY after I became trained and proficient at my job that I became annoyed, bc like you said, unhealthy te has a tendency to micromanage..and the tert fi will get offended when you display your distaste for being micromanaged. Anyway, all types have their ups and downs. 🙃
As a Fe user, though inferior, I don't even see myself as an individual most of the time. I see myself as a collection of demographic tags, and that's what I consider to be "identity". It's always freaky to be reminded that Fi folks don't think this way and may not even understand when I try to explain social trends and demographics. Extremely interesting panel for me, makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one with these gripes about Fi, haha. But also nice to know that others see the value in Fi while not quite understanding it.
Oh wow, I LOVED the discussion between Boris and Joyce about what is driving the Fe placation. I too feel less close with people who do that and always wondered why they do it. Great explanation Joyce! ...Wait.... noooo...you stopped your explanation just when it was getting sooo good! I was eager to hear the rest of your opinion Joyce and you stopped yourself and then all 4 of you started talking about the fear of being authentic. :-(
Placating, it isn’t actually placating, it is recognizing the shortest distance between two points, and taking it only when it doesn’t violate our deeper values. We don’t align with placating as a concept, we hate it, but we get how the world works and we work it. Not maliciously, but hopefully usefully. I was a professor, and the classes were very long, so we would have a dinner break in between, and sometimes I would meet a former student for dinner, and one in particular, who was an intj, had the kind of personality I am able to be more myself around. One night I came down to meet her, and I just said “ugghhhh I’m so tired..I’m so glad it’s you because I won’t have to talk much” and she was floored by this. She said she had no idea my personality could be so different from the jovial, energized, warm professor I am when I’m in that role vs. the way I am, in more of a “friend”, role, or around an intj, who just gets that quieter and more critical side of me.
@@hasgoodles7807 I LOVE seeing the more "real" side of INFJs and ENFJs. I wish I could see that side of them more often. I crave it. When I see them relying too much on Fe, it literally makes me sad...like we can't truly connect and I want to connect so much but that Fe often won't allow it. :-(
When I hear music I like or dislike, I can't help to think about why I like or dislike it. "oh this melody is too cliche, this bores my Ne because it's too simple' . "oh this chorus seems inconsistent with this verse because it's structure is inconsistant" . "The admosphere is similar , which makes sense becaue the chord structure is similar"
ENFP here. Fascinating to see the Fe just naturally & seemingly effortlessly harmonize with each other on the panel. They can share their Ti debates & differences yet stay socially harmonious. 💗💗💗
I sometimes struggle to listen to songs when the instruments are overpowering the voice in the mix. You sometimes encounter songs that to me are overproduced or maybe thinking in the back of my head like, this could be better if they tone down the instrument or if they want to go that way, find a singer that can keep up with the band.
@@Slippernips INTP here as well, and I 100% agree. I basically don't even like something if I can't break it into the reasons why. Otherwise it'll "bother" me until I figure it out. My (Fe 2nd) feeler wife confirmed that she doesn't even understand what I mean by that, she just "feels" what she likes so I think it's may be a feeling-inferior thing perhaps. The good side of that is that I'll listen to a song or play a game over and over until I do, the bad side is that I can, at times, have a closed mind to new things or get somewhat obsessed with what I already like. (Ie, sticking to a few genres only) Luckily Ne enjoys novelty so I don't stay closed for long.
@@vazzaroth I think it's more a Ti thing. Wanting to break down how it works. There may also be a Ti connection to what you like which makes it possible to dissect why you like it but maybe feelers don't like things for Ti reasons and therefore can't even theoretically break it down into words. (I happen to believe that there's always a reason for what makes good art. Being able to define it and articulate it is hard.)
If Ti/Fe users are together, they (in optimal conditions) want to communicate in a polite positive manner and make eachother feel good and while doing that they analyse stuff and learn stuff about things and eachother (Ti) (or at least that's how I know it) . It seems simple to imagine how this plays out in close relationships. I am curious what the the Te/Fi counterpart of this is. Is it more doing things together? I would imagine working together could work well, since it's a more Te related subject (since Te is the extroverted one) However, typically that's not what you do when you interact with people that are friends or that you are in a relationship with. Or do you more open up with the Fi and share your deepest vulnerabilties and then the other sort of listens and gives you advice how to do things? (Te). I am curiouss how this plays out.
if i’m close to someone who is also Fi-Te in either order, i will usually open up with the Fi (unless it’s an area in which they’ve proved themselves untrustworthy, i can sometimes be selective in that regard), which will hopefully encourage them to do the same, and then probably brainstorm ways to solve (with Te) any issues that need solving. there’s also a helluva lot of ”putting the world to rights”, which to the outside (Fe) observer, it can sometimes seem a bit categorical, ”impolite” and even aggressive. check out Joyce’s INFP only vids for examples of the ”passion” 😃 if i know an Fe user can handle this approach, i’ll use it with them too. otherwise, they won’t really get very much out of me on a personal level. i’m either authentic or not at all 😆
@@AS-jq4lb ah thanks for you reaction. So the beginning of what you write is a bit like I described. Also, you mention "putting the world to rights". What does that sentence mean? English is not my native language? Do you mean like social justice worrior things? And what is categorical? Putting people in boxes you mean? Also, what do you mean with either authentic *or not at all* . Either authentic or not at all authentic or either authentic or you are not there at all? (like no contact?)
@@PowerRedBullTypology ”putting the world to rights” means discussing world problems (often loudly and possibly angrily) and attempting to come up with solutions. ”categorical” is used in the sense of having very definite views about something. and ”not at all” means that if i can’t be authentic in a conversation, i probably won’t bother with the conversation at all, at least if i can avoid it. i feel uncomfortable tiptoeing around people (and by that i mean having to use more Fe than i’m capable of).
@@AS-jq4lb Oh yeah, world problems. I have Fi dom or aux friends who do the same thing (getting all angered by stuff like that, so indeed sounds like a pattern). I also recognize the thing you experience with Fe, but then I have it with Te as dom Ti user. When there an individual or even more so group all believe a certain thing is true (usually the consensus, the common belief) then I have a hard time acting like I think like them when I do not. Possibly what you experience with being authentic, is what I experience with not being feeling I can be authentic with what I belief to be true. Fi and Ti want no filters whereas Fe and Te have them (but different ones).
Great talk ! I learn a lot and relate to a lot of the struggles for understanding the Te/Fi axis. That's great to see that I share some of your conclusions on what is really going on with Te/Fi user. Not speaking the same axis create so much pain just because of misunderstanding. That's a lot of time just sad. Anyway, Thx !! That was really insightful. I'm curious Joyce if you can share their 512 type ? IF they have been typed ofc :)
Yes… everything is personal - Joyce-if that’s the clincher than I’m FiTe because there is no truer statement. Every minute of every day- every interaction. I’m seeing a lot of your videos differently since our chat
Joyce diplomatically says "Fi likes a job they enjoy and pays well". My Ti Dom mind simply hears " Right, Fi wants everything, yes, I knew it." haha. Anyway yea, me too but with an inferior feeling function it's difficult to allow myself to feel like I "deserve" something that nice. Plus the bigger challenge for me has been finding out what I like, rather than just what I'm good at...
interesting..can you elaborate about the 'deserve' thing? What do you think you 'deserve' ? Is it that you mean you perceive that you do not deserve much or do you mean that the concept of 'deserving' does seem foreign to you?
@@PowerRedBullTypology I'm actually putting the finishing touches on a video that sort of covers this as an INTP (Mainly overcoming inferior Fe) but to summarize: 1. I know there are people in society that have MUCH MUCH less than I. (Lower-middle class white guy from a managerial-class family) 2. I also know there are people with MUCH MUCH more than I, and EVEN MORE than the people who are below me. 3. I have my basic needs met, but I"m not happy that often, on the whole. 4. Therefor, I want the people who are not getting their basic needs met to have theirs met FIRST (Ie, if something good is "coming", I'd prefer it was defferred to them first, then I can have what I 'want' after they get what they 'need', if that makes sense) So for me to say "I want a job I like ( a want) and that pays well" (A mix of want and need), it feels like a seriously self-centered thing to me. And, to a degree, it objectively is. That's what Fi is, being self centered. Not always to a character-flaw level, but with Fi being my EIGHTH function, it's the thing I am the LEAST uncomfortable with. There is basically no time in life that I stop seeing "society" and just see myself, unless perhaps when I'm in a Ti-flowstate. (writing, some video games, system(s) creation/interaction) I recently described having inferior Fe to my wife as "Wanting to be the last one to get on the lifeboat" and that I largely view myself as a tool rather than a tool-user. I have this impulse to "sacrifice" myself at all times, and the only time I can suppress that (without significant internal effort) is when I put individual people in the "bad person" or "bad faith" bucket. Like someone that proves they are anti-social/selfish/unable to be worked with. Then I "turn off" my Fe for them and I will never go out of my way for them, and there's a shortlist of repeat offender I consider enemies at this point. (Luckily, none are required to be in my life any longer.) Plus, mix that with having Ti high in my stack and I have sets of "If-Then" rules that get people into the bucket unless they can prove otherwise. (Ne is constantly pinging for updates, never closing the door like an Ni person may.) I guess that's what they mean with Ti and INTPs being judgement-focused Perceivers. I have found many people don't like to be clued in that I'm running this kind of analysis program at ALL times, but it's the truth. I don't tell most people, is all.
@@vazzaroth Why can’t you judge them and then work with them anyway? Sorry for the question, I just don’t get why you need to throw them out as if a bad person, judging someone as bad is fine, but why do you need to see yourself as sacrificing yourself if that person is bad? Maybe you need to change the programming that putting yourself first is bad, and that people will Fe hate you for it. We can work with our inferior function, it’s hard for everybody too, but maybe putting yourself first is in fact what will make the tribe value you more.
Sorry I’m an entp I didn’t mean to come across as a know it all, Im probably more clueless than most people, I have so many struggles with my inferior too. It was just my opinion.
@@hirsch4155 "Why can’t you judge them and then work with them anyway?" Who said I don't? To be clear, the "bad people bucket" is for people that I consider too far gone, too rotten and deep in a superego (or something) to be willing to do anything in good faith. There's, like, 6 people in that bucket that I know IRL. Additionally, you didn't have context for this but, I'm mainly speaking in a client relationship at work. So at a certain point, if I'm having a personality clash (Ie, someone who seems ONLY hostile to my view) it's in my and my company's best interest to seperate us, regardless of why. I suppose this is always the problem with revealing this type of programming (Also, you say to change it, as if I can just move my Ti to another slot.), everyone brings THEIR rules in and assumes I use THEIR rules as the standard. My Ti rules are quite functional because I give people the benfit of the doubt often. Usually, I notice, my benefit of the doubt extends FAR beyond the average person's. It's only after repeated "bad faith" actions that you even get CLOSE to going in the bucket. Only people that trend hostile or do one particularly bad faith action that they go IN. And of course, no one is in there forever, if they improve their behaviour. It's always up to them to be responsible for how they're perceived, if you ask me. If you WANT to be a tyrant who yells at people, belittles folks who try their best (Not me, btw, I can take. My Fe mostly defends others), or put zero effort into understanding others, then go right ahead. But I, personally, will not be there to help, support, or interact with you and I certainly won't reccomend that any else does, either. What I try to avoid (although my animal brain wants me to with 3rd slot Si) is put entire demographics of people in the bucket at once. I used to when I was younger, btw. There's no way I can know EVERY person in that demographic, so to make a judgmeent would be irresponsible. I theorize most of this type of judgement happens below cognition/conciousness for feeler types. I'm just a Ti-dominant who is fine being an extrovert when online so I'm sharing how my thinking presents itself in the absence of just "gut" feelings when it comes to social interaction. (Your 2nd comment is a great example of "good faith", btw, at least by my definition. Stating clear intention, making sure the other party understands what you are asking and why you need it, so there is no room for misinterpretation and "social lies". An honest question with true curiosity behind it, presumably, with the goal of mutual understanding. Now THAT is the kind of social interaction I love, even as an introvert! Even if people disagree with me, we can do so while still respecting the other person. It's just hard to live life that way and even I don't get it perfect every time.) Not diagnosed but I MAY be on the autism specturm btw, so whether it's that or being an INTP, I find that my goals with social interaction don't tend to be the same as most people's.
For Fe users - plz don’t control the game of life. All opinions are valid. This is true. BUT since it is so, so do yours. Don’t quash it, stand up for what you believe. Let the ‘game’ play out naturally because then it doesn’t invalidate anyone. Hope this makes sense.
Definitly true, but also for Fi users: Don't assume that you're the center of the universe. If YOU had a problem with something happening, it's up to, indeed, YOU to explain the reasons why others should change or do something about it. If that boils down to "Becuase you make me feel bad", that's ok, but you also need to understand that some situations are inherently "bad" for feelings. In a work enviroment, some jobs simply aren't for high feeling folks. I work as an internet moderator and I've reviewed hundreds if not thousands of pictures of murder scenes, gore, etc. I'm a thinker and honestly it doesn't bother me that much. I've seen plenty of folks come and say "Yes! I can handle this!" and then have to quit after a week because it was affecting them. And I always appreciate those that do, since they clearly mis-estimated or didn't know themselves very well and capitalism encourages people to lie to get access to funds to live. But we can't change the entire world around you, sometimes YOU need to understand that YOU (and your feeligns) are the outlier here. TLDR: The world functions with both Fe and Fi working together and people, through the process of maturing, need to work on understanding themselves to know what they can do and identify when they are met with something they cannot do.
@@vazzaroth Thank you. All feelings are valid however, it's what you do with them that counts. It's worth pointing out that most Fi people don't assume they are the center of the universe, just like most Fe users don't lack a spine/agree with you just to fit in. Most people are just being themselves, regardless of other people's interpretations. "In a work enviroment, some jobs simply aren't for high feeling folks." - Sure, just like some work environments simply aren't for highly rational folks. But most workplaces require people with different kinds of strengths to work together. Great leaders know how to leverage those strengths towards a common goal without trying to force fit everyone into a single box. Let's not assume rational individuals don't pose any problems at a workplace.
I was really concerned when there were no Fi users to have a voice and refute untrue things like that Fi is inconsistent. Fi is very consistent about Fi values. I think later at around 22:00 this idea of consistency of values got brought up, but not enough for it to stick. It was an interesting discussion and 3 people along with moderator seems to be a good number for a Zoom, but this could have gone bad, I’d say when the people you’re talking about aren’t there and most comments become conjecture.
I too noticed their impression of Fi as “inconsistent”, felt a bit of a cringe inside and I almost commented on their misunderstanding myself (ok I guess now I I have 😂) but then I realized that even though WE Fi users understand that we have our subjective personal consistency and we can see it in other Fi users, I can see that they may not have the nuanced understanding of Fi to be able to get that and I can see why to them it seems random, so I left it alone. They probably feel the same way about our simplified understanding of Ti.
Oh man, natalie saying she likes people trying to solve her problems... I knew there was a reason I started to like ISFJs as a Ti Dom! Similar to the Te doms, it's SO hard to turn off solution brain and it's gotten me into a lot of different problems in life...
Functions are situationally purposed , so the same way it usually wouldn't be a good idea to bring my Fi to work environment, you also probably shouldn't resolve relationship stuff with Ti. Know when to utilize your specific set of tools.
very interesting! as intj i also have run into mild to severe difficulties with estj. i think it's the te/si combo that creates the conflict. so even though we are both tj, i theorize that ni conflicts with si to varying degrees which makes sense bc we would be more forward looking and perhaps they are more backward looking. so entj/intj vs estj/istj might conflict over ideas and methodology and its actually our shared te function that drives our ni/si to butt heads. i also found it interesting the ti can flip to te bc i have also thought that my te can flip to ti but haven't yet read or heard of anyone saying that. for example, on weekends or vacation when there is no time-sensitivity or any need to get anything done in any particular way, i love to spend my introverted little heart just voraciously researching/learning things in a detailed way and following endless threads of thinking without a care in the world. the things i learn may or may not be useful and its just for fun or interest and doesn't need a goal or reason
Your weekend studies sounds more like your Te. Ti is not a gathering function like that. Or, if it truly is “useless meanderings”, then it could be your Fi and Se having some fun as a relief from the daily struggle of using Ni/Te.
I find as a ti user, that high te is really abrasive but love their efficiency ..fi can lose the plot in a second.. which can make me wary on what I'm saying.
Do you think it's Fi users are the only ones who make emotional inferences? A friend, who I believe is ESFJ, reads a lot into people's behavior and decisions and says it with conviction. It seems delusional at times.
In this context, we were kinda referring to how Fi users will assume someone is feeling a certain way like saying "You're angry right now, aren't you?" when all you're doing is talking slightly loud. I would imagine an ESFJ, in Fe-Ti fashion, is more likely to draw "logical" conclusions about people based on externally observed behavior, like "This person is just angry because they didn't have their coffee". It's possible that the lines here are blurred with an Fe/Te dominant in some cases.
@@Slippernips Reality TV is a great example of this, since it seems like Fi 1st/2nd folks are pretty much the norm there. This season of the bachelor is great for identifying Fi interactions, lol. Person does something a little weird. Fi people all start gossiping saying they're DEFINITLY doing it for X reason, then cut to that person talking to the camera and saying their reason, and it's way off. What I notice is that likely Fi types (esp people aren't into MBTI) seem to conflate the reason that THEY might do something with the reason why SOMEONE ELSE might do something. Fe or Tx can too, don't get me wrong. but I tend to look for this as a likely Fi indicator. (Esp if they're obsessed with this logical fauilure)
@@vazzaroth I respectfully disagree. As an Fi user I absolutely hate gossip. Not only that but I usually don't even have theories about people's behaviors as I tend to care more about my own emotional/internal world than other's (unless someone is going through something bad and they need emotional help from me). My way of interacting with the world is live and let live.. Fi is quite internally focused, whereas Fe is external and more prone to discussing other people's behaviors. Let's agree to disagree.
intp here and i heavily relate to what spacey started talking about at 31:02. it doesn't come natural to me to fall into that Te and healthily use it and i usually let other people take charge of a situation. but when i have to work with others (group work already falls into my least fav things) and i can feel that no one else is capable of using that Te to get us ahead, i can actually seem kinda controlling which can develop pretty badly
Spacey has a point, i notice this alot about Fi-Te or Te-Fi, they will invoke their valuations to direct or exert control for their wants, likes, attachments and desires. I really dislike when they pull the "what about the children?!?!?!?".
So is Fi the only function that sees itself as a person? I’m confused about what Fe sees from its perspective, it sees itself as a bunch of tribe, just like my Te feels like a bunch of tribe, but then Ti would need to provide a sense of identity right? But Ti is impersonal, somewhere is the human in the TiFe?
Consistency is an illusion… there are just patterns, some are simpler and some more complex. Complex patterns can still be consistent. It is just harder to spot the pattern. It’s like chaos theory in physics which has found order in what we perceive as chaos. Those T doms who are sensitive and patient enough will pick up on enough data to understand the patterns and logic of emotions and desires of an INFP 😊
Why would there be a rule set for what type of music Fi likes!? 😆 Wouldn’t that limit the potential and box it in if there was a rule about music selection? I like Bass and hate high pitch vocalists... I’m said to have Fi. Are those rules? I call them preferences. I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️
oof, the point of Fi users not being able to summarize and explain music genres liked hit me hard as an INFP and musician struggling hard on trying to describe my "brand" LMAO
I afraid of my ESTJ manager. Because he don't understand depth of the given task, rushing for no reason. Blackmailing... insecurity, micromanaging... ENTP
To me, it sort of bothers me a lot when people act like someone else and not like they truly are. i don't even think at the moment, it's just this sort of repulse that comes to me when i see that happening which makes me literally forget all the polite rules and say ''ok act normally right now'' or ''stop putting on that mask''. I think that's just my Fi getting triggered.
Well, she said she continued thinking about it, that's the real interesting thing; I would just stop caring about it in a few days, maybe weeks if it was very important
@@giacomocasartelli5503That is interesting. Do you think it has to do with cognitive functions? I am trying to remember a conversation i had before or recently and i can't remember anything too (but that is because i think my head is rotting) i don't trust my memories and will write down important details or important events. I don't even memorize my phone number or even google password. I always wrote it down somewhere
@@giacomocasartelli5503 Or could it be that our brain can be lazy too specially when we take notes and save that ''memory'' externally because we find it dependable? Or as we get old the brain naturally can only hold certain informations and automatically trash old unused information. I remember in 2nd grade we were taught to recite the multiplication table and now i can't recite it, i solve it traditional way or calculator. Although our teacher said calculator makes the brain lazy... but even if we use a calculator, we still ask how the answer came to be and compute it traditionally. Right? Can our brain be lazy
@@hanjesse31 Our brain can indeed be lazy, but I think it has nothing to do with rote memorization. I study mathematics and I can't remember many of the formulas I've learned through my studies, but I don't deem my brain to be lazy; in fact I think it has more to do with how much you are willing to challenge your brain with interesting problems or discussions. Also, I think saving memory externally is necessary if you don't want to risk losing it and particularly in our society it's dumb to spend useful time memorizing something that you can usually find in little to no time: one should focus on learning concepts and skills or on creating abstract principles or systems to apply in everyday life's problems.
It’s so funny when Boris said objective personality disorder Sometimes to joke around with people I say stuff like “you’re wrong” or “have you looked into this perspective” but I actually wouldn’t have an idea and only after I said them I would make up something, of course when I’m not kidding around I depend more on my Ti to make the claim “you’re wrong”
Lol, I do the same thing. Making stuff up on the fly, but then the other person would keep thinking about it and I'd have moved on. It can be really fun when I make the claim that something is wrong and then be put on the spot and have to weasel my way out with a good enough answer to get out of trouble lol
Ngl I think I *despise* Fe. It almost 100% of the time appears fake and manipulative and so many of the people that I know who have this function, anywhere in their stack, cannot, for the love of god, just tell me what the feel about something. The reluctance is SO FRUSTRATING. Do you even know what you feel? Bc I end up in situations where I want to give an Fe user what they want and they can't just be clear about it. As an Fi user, I'm aware of what I feel all of the time, and I'm not obligated to be stagnant in that emotion, it's just a recognition of a feeling. Like who cares if someone feels differently, they are not me! I am not them! I have to live with *myself*. One good thing Fe users have taught me is my delivery, although I still get frustrated when someone is paying more attention to my tone than the content of my words. Like sure, I'm feeling something, anyway, pay attention to what my Te is trying to explain. It feels very entitled to expect me to change how I feel so you can receive me better, so you can hear the content of my words. Can you plz do a video on explaining Fe? How it is when it's toxic, how it is when healthy? Say all the things. SAY. THEM. Bc when you don't for fear of conflict, all I end up hearing is silence.
Can we just talk about how different Fj and Tp's background setting look like?? XD
INTJ here. Re: Fi users giving Te reasons for things, it's parallel to how you have difficulty explaining your logic (because it doesn't directly connect to the outside world). Fi actually does have a lot of non-Te reasons for things, but they're very difficult to explain succinctly. Our Te reasons are usually descriptive of our values, rather than prescriptive. We don't like/dislike things strictly or solely _because of_ the stated reasons, but they do -- within the given context -- give an approximation of our perspective. It's like looking at a watery reflection: it's not the actual thing, but it gets the idea across (as far as we're concerned). I think that's one of the main ways that Ti/Fe users commonly misunderstand/misconstrue our reasoning, because they rarely pick up on any context that isn't made blatantly obvious (just like Te often oversimplifies Ti).
Love the contrast in background between the IXFJ and XNTP here lol. One is so messy and the other so neat
Oh how funny! Yes! 😂
My brother is an INTP, and he is very, very smart. He has so many creative, interesting ideas; he wants to be a filmmaker and I think he'll be a really good one someday. But one thing he does that drives me crazy as a Te and/or Se user (I haven't narrowed down my own type completely yet, but I'm sure I have at least one of those functions) is that he can THINK about doing something that he plans to do pretty much indefinitely without ever actually DOING it. He'll say, "I kind of need a new office chair," and then six weeks later he's still saying it and still hasn't even gone to look at any. Finally, someone else has to say, "Alright, let's go buy one, then!" and he always looks sort of shocked, and says something like, "Wait... today?!"
You can have both Te & Se! If you feel like these two are strongest than tou might be either ENTJ or ESFP
ENTJ - (Te Ni Se Fi)
ESFP - (Se Fi Te Ni)
It's called 'sleeping on it' 😂
Another thing about Fi users is ..if you force them to share their emotions when they’re not ready, they can get angry. I think bc they hold their emotions tightly, so it feels invasive to them.
Yes. I think it accurate. I also a Fi user (Intj) I struggle to share emotion and if i am not ready I can snap. It is hard thinking about it.
As an Fi Dom, I feel very special that you talked about us for so long! Thank you.
No one mentioned the cat living its life behind Spacey. Watching it was fascinating.
I love that damn cat so much
LOLLL
@@Slippernips can Ti have feelings ?!? Jk
As an INFP this was very enjoyable. I like that Ti doms are as fascinated about Fi doms as Fi's are with Ti's
Spacey's got it right with flipping into Te as a Ti Dom. I'm a manager and I tend to trust people to figure it out quite a bit, probably assuming they can work like my Ti brain. If they prove to me they can't, I think we tend to flip into a ENTJ superego and kind of have the "F it, I'll handle it and do it live, then!!!", Lol.
But when im around a high Te user I feel like a baby who can't do anything... Or we clash about whether we should figure things out later (alone, Ti) or right now (on a call, Te)
To clarify, we imitate Te actions but we do not use Te. We just switch Ne off and use Ti-Si with much more stress than Te users
@@dxfifa well it depends. if the way you handle is based on curent understanding of external world (Te) and you perceive external detail (Se), then you use Te. i guess oftentimes we imitate Te yes. But, sometimes i don't. i believe functions is more fluid that we thought.
This was probably the best TypeTalk thus far, really valuable information here, at least for me as an Fi/Te user INFP. I really appreciate the thoughts you guys gave on Fi, what doesn't make sense to you and how you on the other hand appreciate them. Sometimes I can feel kind of wrong or useless as an Fi dom, because my emotions are so strong and I'm not really that logical all the time, but I can't really help being the way that I am either.
So yeah, hopefully we can see more discussion about how different function users interact with the opposites--what works and what causes friction. It's very interesting and helps me to understand humans better, which is one of my main Fi goals in life I suppose haha.
Thank you!
As an Fi-Dom I really appreciated hearing all your Fi insights, and attempts to understand it. You guys were pretty on point. 🙂
ENFP here! Such a great conversation to be able to listen in on!
I just wanted to say that I cannot relate enough to what Boris said around the 24 minute mark about his difficulty around Fe users. This is where I find most challenges and miscommunication crops up when I’m engaging with high Fe users - especially those I’m close to. There seems to be a resistance to being completely transparent about your own personal feelings, and as an Fi user I find it a bit disappointing when I open up to someone and they respond with the “appropriate” social/emotional behaviour. For me, bonding and intimacy happen when both parties allow themselves to be vulnerable with each other.
However, I definitely do not want to downplay how much I appreciate the care and compassion my Fe friends provide me with. When I am truly struggling with something, you guys are always there to make me feel better. When I’m being embraced by Fe kindness I feel like I’m literally the most important person in the world, and my feelings are validated.
Love you guys, and love learning more about you :)
(INFP) I can definitely relate. My Fe friends are always looking out and caring for me while disregarding their own feelings sometimes. I feel sort of guilty for not being able to reciprocate in the same way many times. And yeah, sometimes I want to tell Fe dom/aux to just speak their honest opinion lol! Like, I want to know YOUR true feelings.
@@era1442 yes. We definitely have such different approaches to the concept of over-sharing. Few things make an Fi user happier than being in an environment where everyone feels comfortable sharing their honest thoughts and feelings, but I think for a lot of Fe users that kind of environment is highly stress-inducing, because honest thoughts can be hurtful and uncomfortable at times.
But I think Fi users feel we can push forward because we inherently trust our values to steer us in the right direction (because we literally spend so much time figuring out what they are, and how to follow them) And esp xNFPs I think feel very well equipped with our Ne that even if something does go wrong as a result of our over sharing, we’ll figure out how to fix it.
Is any “completely transparent” about their personal feelings? That’s a lot to ask of anyone. I don’t see why it’s an issue.
@@hirsch4155 “completely transparent” was a poor choice of words. How about “substantially forthcoming”? Lol
@@eckey03 lol Yes I get what you mean now :)
I really enjoyed this one. It really helped me get my head around what FeTi or TiFe must feel like from the inside.
Excellent to hear, Janine!! :)
Very useful panel for me (intj). Thanks for opening up about Fe! It was strange to see the "timidness" of it but I've definitely seen the reluctance to share opinions. Meanwhile Fi can't wait to share something to shock the group 😉
Great to hear!! Glad it was helpful! :) Thanks for tuning in,
Michelle.
I loved to see Spacey talking about Fe, how he was naturally talking about his inferior function. And I would say that I (ISTJ) tend to feel some sort of a resonant peace when I'm with ISFJ's.
Thanks Samuel! You're a swell guy.
Okay good, Joyce, you came back to the Fe/Fi thing. YES, we want to guard your sense of you because that MATTERS. Your uniqueness is really important! NOBODY else can bring to the world what YOU can and that goes for everyone. If you don't do it, who will??? Being yourself is just as important as the group harmony. There's a time and a place for both. Woooowww, this is blowing my mind what y'all are saying about it being so hard to see people as individuals. Whoaaaaa. Great insight here! This is really helping me understand Fe users!
This was SUPER interesting! I have several Ti/Fe users in my life so it's great to hear their perspective. INTJ here. I have an ENTP boss and Boris was spot on about the timing issue. I am the one pushing him to complete things. And he's wanting to hold off and wait longer. It's difficult for me because I feel very unsettled when I'm waiting. I am far more productive in my side business when I can control the work pace. I'd rather be getting things done and be productive than waiting. My work quality is top notch even when I move fast so usually there is no justification for us to keep waiting. Taking long does not necessarily mean a better outcome. It very often just ends up wasting time.
Also, he is very resistant to doing any Te with me so that's a struggle. He tends to just keep his door closed all the time when he's using Ti, I assume, or he's running around, doing something else and unavailable. It's frustrating for me. That being said, I really like it when we do talk because of our Ni/Ne dynamic. And also the few instances when he does use Te, it's really fun and satisfying for me and really helps me.
On the Fe placating part, high Fe users have a tendency to be too people pleasing. They prioritize social harmony. I've noticed my Fe user friends are almost terrified to rock the boat if they share their authentic opinions and i just want to shake them and tell them it's okay, the harmony will be okay 😭. Sometimes the harmony is disturbed because of lack of authenticity and that compulsion to keep things '' peaceful''. I love them but also want to shake them but also hug them.
Great conversation!! Yeah the Fe/Te struggle is real. For example, my INFJ mom would FREAK OUT when during one of our philosophical conversations, I (an INTJ) would try to explain why I understood, in theory, some psychological reason for why a bad person might do something. I was just perspective-shifting and seeing the Te reasons from that “bad” person’s perspective. It’s as if she thought I was trying to condone and justify their behavior and I was absolutely not! I was just examining the psychological underpinnings, for example, of why a person’s toxic childhood might create more of a tendency for them to commit some crime. She could NOT understand how I did that. She would TOTALLY misunderstood me and as I tried to explain my reasoning, it just made it worse. 😂 It wasn’t funny at the time because we had our moments where we could not communicate. I would be pleading that she was misunderstanding me and she would just go silent and look away, clearly communicating that she didn’t get me. It hurt me at the time (and clearly her as well) and I’m glad now I understand what was happening, but she passed away many years ago, before I was able to determine if she was an INFJ or ISFJ.
Yeah, so because of that I’ve often been pretty sure that I need to be with an Te/Fi user. It sucks though because I LOVE INFJs but I feel they just don’t get me and I get hurt by them a lot. My first girlfriend was an INFJ and we had the same struggles. She was incredibly sensitive and misunderstood me a lot and could not seem to get passed her interpretations even though I tried hard to explain. I am not sure if I would have these same struggles with ENFJs (who I also adore) because frankly it’s harder to get close to them to really know what they are thinking/feeling…which is another issue.
That is Fi not Fe that your mother was using. Fe users almost always understand what you're doing because they do all have Ti for their inner world... Even if they choose not to use it often. You are also an Fi user. It shows both of you were Fe blind, refusing to compromise to understand each other. Everything you are saying is pretty much as Fi/Te as it gets, and it shows how Fi you are to be blind to it and think it's Fe
Fi people really struggle when others don't feel the same way they would, as they almost always use empathy rather than sympathy. And if they can't imagine themselves feeling that way in that position, they usually don't care. Fe users tend to use general social logic and their knowledge of the person to superimpose a simplistic projection of the other person and analyse how the other person probably feels in their position, not how a fully understood version of yourself would feel
@@dxfifa Hmm, you have a good point there. Maybe it was her 6th slot Fi. As an INFJ, she did have access to her Fi as her critical parent function and I do see that same dynamic in ISFJs as well, (who also have 6th slot Fi) which sucks because otherwise, I typically really love ISFJs but they hurt me when they try to shut me down emotionally. Yes, maybe it’s Fi, but it’s a poor usage of Fi. They are critical of personal feelings and try to tell you how you should or should not feel. They actually try to shut you down when you’re expressing your feelings.
I’ve got 3 INFPs VERY close and longterm relationships and they’re totally different. 🥰 My INFP best friend, ex-wife and girlfriend NEVER did/do that. They are always respectful of my feelings. A front stack Fi user is more likely to respect your different feelings whereas the 6th slot Fi user is less accepting.
38:20 yes yes yes. I'm an XNFP in a corporation and I agree with everything Boris said. Not necessarily that I want to "matter", no, I don't think I matter at all in the grand scheme of things because I'm just one replaceable person in a huge corporation. That doesn't bother me, I could care less about their corporation. My main struggle I think is the fact that I have to use a lot of Fe to play the "politics". When I use Fi and I'm being myself I tend to be very bubbly and quirky which is what people in such formal environments really dislike.
I can play the corporate game really well when I focus on my Te, but when Fi comes back I tend to get annoyed/frustrated/unhappy. I think my ideal career path would be freelancer or having my own company.
🤔🤔🤔 is that why it's hard to play politics?
@@fattysl26 I guess. When you have strong Fi you want authenticity, not pretense.
@@alexandra9944 Definitely
I'm an intj woman and have an entp son. Our creative "what if" conversations are some of my favorites and confuse my esfp husband. Lol
My daughter is an esfj and she uses her entp bro as (she says) her support human.
I value how entps are consistent, curious, smart and no emotional bs.
Though every once in a while I do check in emotionally (as best I can) with my entp son. "You still alive?" is typically how I start off. Lol
You guys! Feelings don't need to be "backed up" or "rational". That's the whole point of your feelings. THEY just are what they are. And that is valid in and of itself. Ooohhhh Joyce that's a good point about the FJs not being able to handle an unexpected disagreement. That explains a lot. I have delayed responses sometimes though. I have them often enough that it's annoying to me. But maybe it's not as much as an FJ user? I'm curious to know more about that. I LOVE this panel!
Lots of good insight on Fe, Te, Fi, as well as how Demonstrative and Ignoring functions can manifest. I really enjoyed this one.
Excellent!! Happy to know, Oliver! :)
As an isfp, this panel made me realise a lot about my behavioural patterns!
There are communication gaps with High Fi user people in my life. It’s very much like what Joyce and Natalie said when I’m like communicating an Fe passion or feeling and they don’t give me a response right away or at all. One thing I really do admire about High Fi is there ability to really know what they feel and the authenticity. The love from my high Fi user friends and family really does feel real.
Also, I think both Ti and Fi like to go deep the former in the realm of logic and the latter in the realm of ethics. To me, as a Ti user I like to spend time analyzing and trying to figure out why I think this or that. To me, it seems like Te users just care too much about the efficient and logical results at the expense of depth of logic. On the flip side, I’m sure Fi can see Fe as lack depth in the realm of ethics. I’m an ISFJ so (Fe 2nd) and (Ti 3rd).
Absolutely, @KJ Daniels! Well said. :)
I know two ESTJ really well and they are really different like Boris is saying. They are both very serious about getting the job done but one of them is just hilarious and fun much of the time, as long as things are being accomplished. The other one never cracks a smile. I love ESTJs in general though. I really respect their work ethic a lot and love working with them because we work really well together and are super productive together, even the ones who can't seem to lighten up. :-)
Are they men or women. Estj men are worse if unhealthy
(INFP) I Fe, well enough, but only almost at gunpoint. Resonate with Spacey's "having to" Te.
haha i feel you (INFP)
Same, XNFP here
Yeaaah when there's no one to calm people for example in a stressful sitiation or no one to bring back harmony to the group, i will take it but otherwise no
Great content, Joyce! Very insightful! Thank you for making the world a better place! 💗💗
Thank you so much! You're a sweetie, Linds. :)
@@JoyceMeng22 You're very welcome, Joyce! Aww Thanks! 💗💗💗
This video helped me realize my mom is mistyped as Fe-ti (entp) when she’s actually Fi-te (enfp)
She is rarely ever motivated by the group by is always motivated by her personal feelings which actually are very inconsistent like was mentioned here. She is a doctor, and I think her interest in science is what caused her to be mistyped. BUT enfp use Te, so they can be scientific as well…it will just present in a different way. I always feel the need to talk about the big picture of how things affect humanity as a whole, and her response is “ok but how does that affect me?” It seemed dispassionate like I wasn’t receiving the feedback I need to ping pong as you say. Now I totally understand where the disconnect comes from.
This was very helpful to understand Ti-Fe users and where they are coming from. Very insightful and informative! I really enjoyed it, thank you!
So happy this video helped you understand the Ti-Fe perspective more! :) Thanks for watching, Shou!!
This is so relatable! A well balanced discussion on the positives and negatives of both sides coming from Ti and Fe users. The conversation flowed nicely too.
I wish this was a longer video. So valuable content ❣️ I really liked when you said the higher Fe is insecure to speak about their Ti logic. I resonate with that. A lot of times I am not sure if my logic is correct and I tend to ask the tribe what is their opinion on things and than I internalize it and look for my own truth.. I was not sure if I am FeTi in the middle or TeFi, after watching this video I am more inclined to FeTi
It's interesting cause I feel like for me, it's the opposite. Im usually pretty confident in what I know unless it's a topic I haven't learned.
However I'm usually unsure of how people will respond or are feeling in the group. So I'd rather just keep my ti logic to myself so I won't upset anyone or ruin the group vibe. I'll end up just saying, "I'll do whatever you guys wanna do" or just do my own thing in the way I've thought through
This panel was super interesting. You guys have a good understanding of Fi/Te. It's interesting to see how you view our preferred functions. And Spacey's cat is warming my heart and making me laugh at the same time. 💓💗💓💗
One of the best videos I've seen so far about cognitive functions. It was really insightful! Thank you all for the collaborative effort :)
Our pleasure! Thanks for letting us know that this was one of the best cognitive functions videos you've seen, @ImaHumanYesIam. What a compliment!
just don't ask fi users why. observe them and come up with your own explanations for their behaviours. there's always a reason, there is always a cause, there's always a pattern. including the music they like. if it's not genre, then it might the mood. if not mood then it might be vocals, if not vocals it might be wall of sound, if not wall of sound maybe it is gothic twin guitars etc. don't expect them to give you super specific ti categorical explanation.
don't you like that as a puzzle? i love it. figuring nfps out is very entertaining for me as an entp. why everything must be obvious and super clear? where's the fun or mental stimulation in that?
also do not expect them to explain what they feel or what's the problem either. watch their body language, listen to the tone of voice. beeeep, beeep as a robot i must tell you my battery is at %10 so charge me up please. can't you tell robot needs charging when it start acting slower or whatever?
also be proactive. make them feel new stuff instead of trying to fix how hey feel now. show that you care, show that you feel with them. when tell you about the guy from work say "what a sonnuva bitch!" and then say "oh noes! and then what happened?" they generally do not want or need fixing, they want to be heard and they want to be understood.
@PressieAMVs ti word for the latter might be "cathartic" as a mood.
@@demogorgon4244 I can see that it might be fun if something is complicated to figure out (it keeps Ne busy). However, I am curious if it makes you perceive to be understood with your Ti wiring? For example, I like it when I explain how a something works in myself or someone else explained logically, that the other understands what I am saying and can see the value of it. It feels frustrating to me (personally) to talk to people who do not understand me. Whenever I have miscommunicatoin with my ENFJ girlfriend, it's always about us perceiving things in a different manner with our different perceiving axis, while when we judge things or reason we always understand eachother and have no miscommunication.
However, for you your Ti might be more of a Toy and you share your Ne of course, which makes her understand the Ne naturally I would guess?
Kinda messy story, but you get the point (I'm about to go sleep)
@@PowerRedBullTypology i find it more enjoyable when i explain a complex ti or fi thing with my ne. for example that phenomenology fi connection comment of mine at binyamin's channel (i read most phenomenologists so i know fi better than fi doms) or when i said "oh, as a ti dom you don't know what you like? then just think in terms of what are some cool things to you. maybe robots or some shit huh?"
how do i "ne" explain things exactly? i don't lose myself in details, i get rid of unneccessary details, i simplify things and then i see how x and y and z are variants of each other and coming from a and then i explain something like how demon function of beebe and socionics's role function is exact same thing. i won't get fooled by titles and terminology.
my comment above is an ne comment more than a ti one too. i am telling entps and intps: hey, look at from this ne perspective: see infps and enfps just like any other puzzle, try to understand them like any other complex thing, aren't you an explorer? aren't you into wierd stuff? open your mind to the world of fi.
The ENTP talking about flipping into Te mode is definitely something I see with my ENTP coworker. After procrastinating as long as possible, it will get to the point where he's about to be called out for lack of getting anything done and he'll suddenly engage his Te. I LOVE that EXCEPT he does it at the last minute which ticks me off because it usually means that now I have to be in panic mode with him. I hate that. I've been trying to work all along in a good pace somewhere between the rabbit and the tortoise and he flips from one extreme to the other. It drives me crazy and stresses me out as an introvert who does NOT do well with sudden changes. He'll literally ask me 1 minute before a conference call to take over and lead part of the meeting when I have had no warning. It's actually pretty disrespectful. But it's so easy for him to just fly by the seat of his pants that he doesn't realize what kind of position he's putting me in. Fortunately he doesn't do that too often. He knows now that I don't like it at all.
That's not how it works, they are using Ti and Si and avoiding Ne to struggle through Te like functioning
I just LOVE the outro music. I need to download that for when I'm working.
I'm so proud of Joyce being able to share what Fe is in such a positive manner. It is afraid of sharing too much info because it is afraid of breaching what is comfortable in the atmosphere. Very true. The Fe-Ti axis is arguably the highest energy function so it must expend a lot of energy to placate others and thus it must judge if their sacrifice will actually help others. Anyway, fantastic talk!
Agreed on all counts. I am Ti dom and I heard once "You can't use Ti and Fe at the same time" and kind of assumed that was the typical "logic VS feeling" metaphore. Hearing this (I don't hear much about energy in MBTI personally) , I wonder if THIS is the real reason why. It's just too hard to "run" both program functions at the same time.
I see my INFJ wife having trouble using both Fe and Ti, but I also notice she CAN seem to use them at the same time but for me, I basically can't. Not fully at least. I chalk that up to them being in her middle slots and both of them function a little less than my Ti at her "full force" but there's some problems she can address much better with a balanced approach, whereas I struggle if my Ti isn't sufficient for a solution.
I actually have a youtube video coming out about this literally tomorrow, haha.
@@vazzaroth Energy in MBTI is rarely thought of but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've got a Fi hypothesis but I'll give you the Te guarddog answer anyway. Nardi has measured brain activity of certain activities in "Our brains in color". Certain cognitive activities like maths and use cell phone measure the highest in wattage in his chart.
@@vazzaroth I think it’s the same for any function in the top slot. I have trouble using Si in conscious way when using Ne.
@@vazzaroth I think you can improve using the inferior function if you’re exposed to a healthy user of it as a dominant function. It just takes practice.
Extremely well put, Andrew. I always enjoy reading your comments whenever you post! Thank you for understanding us Fe-Ti users so well. :) The compulsion to placate and smooth over the emotional tension in a room is real.
The part about the inferior Ti reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where George knows exactly what he would have said hours later, then goes back to the person to try to win the argument. Lol.
Oh yeah I totally spend a lot of time trying to understand people's intentions and also their underlying motivations and what drives them...and what could have caused them to be that way.
"I can no longer deny that I only have 5 minutes" LOL
I m still looking forward to the reversed one!😃
I want to dispel the rumor that te is the most bossy….Fe is equally as bossy except knows how to do so in a way that is wrapped in a pretty package lol I have an enfj coworker who has very strong opinions about “appropriateness” like if you do something inappropriate socially or what she deems as “rude,” you will get this sour look as she retreats to talk about what you just did to other co-workers. On the other hand, when she wants you to do something, she knows how to butter you up when asking..which I am fully aware of but appreciate her not being brash unlike my estj coworker.
My estj coworker trained me. We got along so well bc I am naturally oblivious to detail, and her direction and extreme attention to detail helped me a lot. It was ONLY after I became trained and proficient at my job that I became annoyed, bc like you said, unhealthy te has a tendency to micromanage..and the tert fi will get offended when you display your distaste for being micromanaged. Anyway, all types have their ups and downs. 🙃
Te is 100% the most bossy, especially with Si, or Se child
As a Fe user, though inferior, I don't even see myself as an individual most of the time. I see myself as a collection of demographic tags, and that's what I consider to be "identity". It's always freaky to be reminded that Fi folks don't think this way and may not even understand when I try to explain social trends and demographics.
Extremely interesting panel for me, makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one with these gripes about Fi, haha. But also nice to know that others see the value in Fi while not quite understanding it.
This was a really great one!! Thanks!! Can you do one from the opposite perspective?😊
Great suggestion! Yes, I can.
Oh wow, I LOVED the discussion between Boris and Joyce about what is driving the Fe placation. I too feel less close with people who do that and always wondered why they do it. Great explanation Joyce! ...Wait.... noooo...you stopped your explanation just when it was getting sooo good! I was eager to hear the rest of your opinion Joyce and you stopped yourself and then all 4 of you started talking about the fear of being authentic. :-(
Placating, it isn’t actually placating, it is recognizing the shortest distance between two points, and taking it only when it doesn’t violate our deeper values. We don’t align with placating as a concept, we hate it, but we get how the world works and we work it. Not maliciously, but hopefully usefully. I was a professor, and the classes were very long, so we would have a dinner break in between, and sometimes I would meet a former student for dinner, and one in particular, who was an intj, had the kind of personality I am able to be more myself around. One night I came down to meet her, and I just said “ugghhhh I’m so tired..I’m so glad it’s you because I won’t have to talk much” and she was floored by this. She said she had no idea my personality could be so different from the jovial, energized, warm professor I am when I’m in that role vs. the way I am, in more of a “friend”, role, or around an intj, who just gets that quieter and more critical side of me.
@@hasgoodles7807 I LOVE seeing the more "real" side of INFJs and ENFJs. I wish I could see that side of them more often. I crave it. When I see them relying too much on Fe, it literally makes me sad...like we can't truly connect and I want to connect so much but that Fe often won't allow it. :-(
When I hear music I like or dislike, I can't help to think about why I like or dislike it. "oh this melody is too cliche, this bores my Ne because it's too simple' . "oh this chorus seems inconsistent with this verse because it's structure is inconsistant" . "The admosphere is similar , which makes sense becaue the chord structure is similar"
ENFP here. Fascinating to see the Fe just naturally & seemingly effortlessly harmonize with each other on the panel. They can share their Ti debates & differences yet stay socially harmonious. 💗💗💗
I sometimes struggle to listen to songs when the instruments are overpowering the voice in the mix. You sometimes encounter songs that to me are overproduced or maybe thinking in the back of my head like, this could be better if they tone down the instrument or if they want to go that way, find a singer that can keep up with the band.
Yeah redbull im pretty much the same way. I always know exactly what it is that i like about a piece of music.
@@Slippernips INTP here as well, and I 100% agree. I basically don't even like something if I can't break it into the reasons why. Otherwise it'll "bother" me until I figure it out. My (Fe 2nd) feeler wife confirmed that she doesn't even understand what I mean by that, she just "feels" what she likes so I think it's may be a feeling-inferior thing perhaps.
The good side of that is that I'll listen to a song or play a game over and over until I do, the bad side is that I can, at times, have a closed mind to new things or get somewhat obsessed with what I already like. (Ie, sticking to a few genres only) Luckily Ne enjoys novelty so I don't stay closed for long.
@@vazzaroth I think it's more a Ti thing. Wanting to break down how it works. There may also be a Ti connection to what you like which makes it possible to dissect why you like it but maybe feelers don't like things for Ti reasons and therefore can't even theoretically break it down into words.
(I happen to believe that there's always a reason for what makes good art. Being able to define it and articulate it is hard.)
If Ti/Fe users are together, they (in optimal conditions) want to communicate in a polite positive manner and make eachother feel good and while doing that they analyse stuff and learn stuff about things and eachother (Ti) (or at least that's how I know it) . It seems simple to imagine how this plays out in close relationships. I am curious what the the Te/Fi counterpart of this is. Is it more doing things together? I would imagine working together could work well, since it's a more Te related subject (since Te is the extroverted one) However, typically that's not what you do when you interact with people that are friends or that you are in a relationship with. Or do you more open up with the Fi and share your deepest vulnerabilties and then the other sort of listens and gives you advice how to do things? (Te). I am curiouss how this plays out.
if i’m close to someone who is also Fi-Te in either order, i will usually open up with the Fi (unless it’s an area in which they’ve proved themselves untrustworthy, i can sometimes be selective in that regard), which will hopefully encourage them to do the same, and then probably brainstorm ways to solve (with Te) any issues that need solving. there’s also a helluva lot of ”putting the world to rights”, which to the outside (Fe) observer, it can sometimes seem a bit categorical, ”impolite” and even aggressive. check out Joyce’s INFP only vids for examples of the ”passion” 😃
if i know an Fe user can handle this approach, i’ll use it with them too. otherwise, they won’t really get very much out of me on a personal level. i’m either authentic or not at all 😆
@@AS-jq4lb ah thanks for you reaction. So the beginning of what you write is a bit like I described. Also, you mention "putting the world to rights". What does that sentence mean? English is not my native language? Do you mean like social justice worrior things? And what is categorical? Putting people in boxes you mean? Also, what do you mean with either authentic *or not at all* . Either authentic or not at all authentic or either authentic or you are not there at all? (like no contact?)
@@PowerRedBullTypology ”putting the world to rights” means discussing world problems (often loudly and possibly angrily) and attempting to come up with solutions. ”categorical” is used in the sense of having very definite views about something. and ”not at all” means that if i can’t be authentic in a conversation, i probably won’t bother with the conversation at all, at least if i can avoid it. i feel uncomfortable tiptoeing around people (and by that i mean having to use more Fe than i’m capable of).
@@AS-jq4lb Oh yeah, world problems. I have Fi dom or aux friends who do the same thing (getting all angered by stuff like that, so indeed sounds like a pattern).
I also recognize the thing you experience with Fe, but then I have it with Te as dom Ti user. When there an individual or even more so group all believe a certain thing is true (usually the consensus, the common belief) then I have a hard time acting like I think like them when I do not. Possibly what you experience with being authentic, is what I experience with not being feeling I can be authentic with what I belief to be true. Fi and Ti want no filters whereas Fe and Te have them (but different ones).
@@PowerRedBullTypology yes, you got it - although rather than ”no filter” i would say ”my own filter”, not ”society’s filter”.
Fi -what I value doesn't mean anything to you. So, it's conveyed through acceptable reasons of the tribe- Te. Beautiful clarity. ❤🙏ISFP.
Your points around 10:00 (needing to back up a feeling with reasons) are so accurate!
Great talk !
I learn a lot and relate to a lot of the struggles for understanding the Te/Fi axis. That's great to see that I share some of your conclusions on what is really going on with Te/Fi user.
Not speaking the same axis create so much pain just because of misunderstanding. That's a lot of time just sad.
Anyway, Thx !! That was really insightful.
I'm curious Joyce if you can share their 512 type ? IF they have been typed ofc :)
Boris identifies as Play first!
@@JoyceMeng22 Thx !!
the INFJ-INTP energy is there 🥹
I appreciate you guys!
Yes… everything is personal - Joyce-if that’s the clincher than I’m FiTe because there is no truer statement. Every minute of every day- every interaction. I’m seeing a lot of your videos differently since our chat
Joyce diplomatically says "Fi likes a job they enjoy and pays well".
My Ti Dom mind simply hears " Right, Fi wants everything, yes, I knew it." haha.
Anyway yea, me too but with an inferior feeling function it's difficult to allow myself to feel like I "deserve" something that nice. Plus the bigger challenge for me has been finding out what I like, rather than just what I'm good at...
interesting..can you elaborate about the 'deserve' thing? What do you think you 'deserve' ? Is it that you mean you perceive that you do not deserve much or do you mean that the concept of 'deserving' does seem foreign to you?
@@PowerRedBullTypology I'm actually putting the finishing touches on a video that sort of covers this as an INTP (Mainly overcoming inferior Fe) but to summarize:
1. I know there are people in society that have MUCH MUCH less than I. (Lower-middle class white guy from a managerial-class family)
2. I also know there are people with MUCH MUCH more than I, and EVEN MORE than the people who are below me.
3. I have my basic needs met, but I"m not happy that often, on the whole.
4. Therefor, I want the people who are not getting their basic needs met to have theirs met FIRST (Ie, if something good is "coming", I'd prefer it was defferred to them first, then I can have what I 'want' after they get what they 'need', if that makes sense)
So for me to say "I want a job I like ( a want) and that pays well" (A mix of want and need), it feels like a seriously self-centered thing to me. And, to a degree, it objectively is. That's what Fi is, being self centered. Not always to a character-flaw level, but with Fi being my EIGHTH function, it's the thing I am the LEAST uncomfortable with.
There is basically no time in life that I stop seeing "society" and just see myself, unless perhaps when I'm in a Ti-flowstate. (writing, some video games, system(s) creation/interaction)
I recently described having inferior Fe to my wife as "Wanting to be the last one to get on the lifeboat" and that I largely view myself as a tool rather than a tool-user. I have this impulse to "sacrifice" myself at all times, and the only time I can suppress that (without significant internal effort) is when I put individual people in the "bad person" or "bad faith" bucket. Like someone that proves they are anti-social/selfish/unable to be worked with. Then I "turn off" my Fe for them and I will never go out of my way for them, and there's a shortlist of repeat offender I consider enemies at this point. (Luckily, none are required to be in my life any longer.) Plus, mix that with having Ti high in my stack and I have sets of "If-Then" rules that get people into the bucket unless they can prove otherwise. (Ne is constantly pinging for updates, never closing the door like an Ni person may.)
I guess that's what they mean with Ti and INTPs being judgement-focused Perceivers. I have found many people don't like to be clued in that I'm running this kind of analysis program at ALL times, but it's the truth. I don't tell most people, is all.
@@vazzaroth Why can’t you judge them and then work with them anyway? Sorry for the question, I just don’t get why you need to throw them out as if a bad person, judging someone as bad is fine, but why do you need to see yourself as sacrificing yourself if that person is bad? Maybe you need to change the programming that putting yourself first is bad, and that people will Fe hate you for it.
We can work with our inferior function, it’s hard for everybody too, but maybe putting yourself first is in fact what will make the tribe value you more.
Sorry I’m an entp I didn’t mean to come across as a know it all, Im probably more clueless than most people, I have so many struggles with my inferior too. It was just my opinion.
@@hirsch4155
"Why can’t you judge them and then work with them anyway?"
Who said I don't? To be clear, the "bad people bucket" is for people that I consider too far gone, too rotten and deep in a superego (or something) to be willing to do anything in good faith. There's, like, 6 people in that bucket that I know IRL. Additionally, you didn't have context for this but, I'm mainly speaking in a client relationship at work. So at a certain point, if I'm having a personality clash (Ie, someone who seems ONLY hostile to my view) it's in my and my company's best interest to seperate us, regardless of why.
I suppose this is always the problem with revealing this type of programming (Also, you say to change it, as if I can just move my Ti to another slot.), everyone brings THEIR rules in and assumes I use THEIR rules as the standard. My Ti rules are quite functional because I give people the benfit of the doubt often. Usually, I notice, my benefit of the doubt extends FAR beyond the average person's. It's only after repeated "bad faith" actions that you even get CLOSE to going in the bucket. Only people that trend hostile or do one particularly bad faith action that they go IN. And of course, no one is in there forever, if they improve their behaviour. It's always up to them to be responsible for how they're perceived, if you ask me.
If you WANT to be a tyrant who yells at people, belittles folks who try their best (Not me, btw, I can take. My Fe mostly defends others), or put zero effort into understanding others, then go right ahead. But I, personally, will not be there to help, support, or interact with you and I certainly won't reccomend that any else does, either. What I try to avoid (although my animal brain wants me to with 3rd slot Si) is put entire demographics of people in the bucket at once. I used to when I was younger, btw. There's no way I can know EVERY person in that demographic, so to make a judgmeent would be irresponsible.
I theorize most of this type of judgement happens below cognition/conciousness for feeler types. I'm just a Ti-dominant who is fine being an extrovert when online so I'm sharing how my thinking presents itself in the absence of just "gut" feelings when it comes to social interaction.
(Your 2nd comment is a great example of "good faith", btw, at least by my definition. Stating clear intention, making sure the other party understands what you are asking and why you need it, so there is no room for misinterpretation and "social lies". An honest question with true curiosity behind it, presumably, with the goal of mutual understanding. Now THAT is the kind of social interaction I love, even as an introvert! Even if people disagree with me, we can do so while still respecting the other person. It's just hard to live life that way and even I don't get it perfect every time.)
Not diagnosed but I MAY be on the autism specturm btw, so whether it's that or being an INTP, I find that my goals with social interaction don't tend to be the same as most people's.
For Fe users - plz don’t control the game of life. All opinions are valid. This is true. BUT since it is so, so do yours. Don’t quash it, stand up for what you believe. Let the ‘game’ play out naturally because then it doesn’t invalidate anyone. Hope this makes sense.
Definitly true, but also for Fi users: Don't assume that you're the center of the universe. If YOU had a problem with something happening, it's up to, indeed, YOU to explain the reasons why others should change or do something about it. If that boils down to "Becuase you make me feel bad", that's ok, but you also need to understand that some situations are inherently "bad" for feelings.
In a work enviroment, some jobs simply aren't for high feeling folks.
I work as an internet moderator and I've reviewed hundreds if not thousands of pictures of murder scenes, gore, etc. I'm a thinker and honestly it doesn't bother me that much. I've seen plenty of folks come and say "Yes! I can handle this!" and then have to quit after a week because it was affecting them. And I always appreciate those that do, since they clearly mis-estimated or didn't know themselves very well and capitalism encourages people to lie to get access to funds to live. But we can't change the entire world around you, sometimes YOU need to understand that YOU (and your feeligns) are the outlier here.
TLDR: The world functions with both Fe and Fi working together and people, through the process of maturing, need to work on understanding themselves to know what they can do and identify when they are met with something they cannot do.
@@vazzaroth Thank you. All feelings are valid however, it's what you do with them that counts. It's worth pointing out that most Fi people don't assume they are the center of the universe, just like most Fe users don't lack a spine/agree with you just to fit in. Most people are just being themselves, regardless of other people's interpretations.
"In a work enviroment, some jobs simply aren't for high feeling folks." - Sure, just like some work environments simply aren't for highly rational folks.
But most workplaces require people with different kinds of strengths to work together. Great leaders know how to leverage those strengths towards a common goal without trying to force fit everyone into a single box. Let's not assume rational individuals don't pose any problems at a workplace.
I was really concerned when there were no Fi users to have a voice and refute untrue things like that Fi is inconsistent. Fi is very consistent about Fi values. I think later at around 22:00 this idea of consistency of values got brought up, but not enough for it to stick. It was an interesting discussion and 3 people along with moderator seems to be a good number for a Zoom, but this could have gone bad, I’d say when the people you’re talking about aren’t there and most comments become conjecture.
I too noticed their impression of Fi as “inconsistent”, felt a bit of a cringe inside and I almost commented on their misunderstanding myself (ok I guess now I I have 😂) but then I realized that even though WE Fi users understand that we have our subjective personal consistency and we can see it in other Fi users, I can see that they may not have the nuanced understanding of Fi to be able to get that and I can see why to them it seems random, so I left it alone. They probably feel the same way about our simplified understanding of Ti.
Oh man, natalie saying she likes people trying to solve her problems... I knew there was a reason I started to like ISFJs as a Ti Dom! Similar to the Te doms, it's SO hard to turn off solution brain and it's gotten me into a lot of different problems in life...
Functions are situationally purposed , so the same way it usually wouldn't be a good idea to bring my Fi to work environment, you also probably shouldn't resolve relationship stuff with Ti. Know when to utilize your specific set of tools.
36:25 Spacey Cam:
*gf walks enters scene...looks at camera...then walks away*
*cat enters scene...looks at camera...then walks away*
very interesting! as intj i also have run into mild to severe difficulties with estj. i think it's the te/si combo that creates the conflict. so even though we are both tj, i theorize that ni conflicts with si to varying degrees which makes sense bc we would be more forward looking and perhaps they are more backward looking. so entj/intj vs estj/istj might conflict over ideas and methodology and its actually our shared te function that drives our ni/si to butt heads. i also found it interesting the ti can flip to te bc i have also thought that my te can flip to ti but haven't yet read or heard of anyone saying that. for example, on weekends or vacation when there is no time-sensitivity or any need to get anything done in any particular way, i love to spend my introverted little heart just voraciously researching/learning things in a detailed way and following endless threads of thinking without a care in the world. the things i learn may or may not be useful and its just for fun or interest and doesn't need a goal or reason
Your weekend studies sounds more like your Te. Ti is not a gathering function like that. Or, if it truly is “useless meanderings”, then it could be your Fi and Se having some fun as a relief from the daily struggle of using Ni/Te.
I really enjoyed this talk. Thanks!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it, @bett! 🙂
Love this, thanks! 💖
I find as a ti user, that high te is really abrasive but love their efficiency ..fi can lose the plot in a second.. which can make me wary on what I'm saying.
Do you think it's Fi users are the only ones who make emotional inferences? A friend, who I believe is ESFJ, reads a lot into people's behavior and decisions and says it with conviction. It seems delusional at times.
In this context, we were kinda referring to how Fi users will assume someone is feeling a certain way like saying "You're angry right now, aren't you?" when all you're doing is talking slightly loud. I would imagine an ESFJ, in Fe-Ti fashion, is more likely to draw "logical" conclusions about people based on externally observed behavior, like "This person is just angry because they didn't have their coffee". It's possible that the lines here are blurred with an Fe/Te dominant in some cases.
@@Slippernips ohh I see. Okay thanks for the clarification. I can totally see that happening.
Yeah I noticed that too with ESFJs
@@Slippernips Reality TV is a great example of this, since it seems like Fi 1st/2nd folks are pretty much the norm there. This season of the bachelor is great for identifying Fi interactions, lol.
Person does something a little weird. Fi people all start gossiping saying they're DEFINITLY doing it for X reason, then cut to that person talking to the camera and saying their reason, and it's way off.
What I notice is that likely Fi types (esp people aren't into MBTI) seem to conflate the reason that THEY might do something with the reason why SOMEONE ELSE might do something. Fe or Tx can too, don't get me wrong. but I tend to look for this as a likely Fi indicator. (Esp if they're obsessed with this logical fauilure)
@@vazzaroth I respectfully disagree. As an Fi user I absolutely hate gossip. Not only that but I usually don't even have theories about people's behaviors as I tend to care more about my own emotional/internal world than other's (unless someone is going through something bad and they need emotional help from me). My way of interacting with the world is live and let live.. Fi is quite internally focused, whereas Fe is external and more prone to discussing other people's behaviors. Let's agree to disagree.
I wanna take Spacey to my home 🤗 . I want this warm robot. ~ Yours (maybe or maybe not so)beloved (some random) Intj girl☠️☠️
Bye too much Fe for now.
As an INTP married to an INFJ, I can say that the Ni women seem to love us Ti-dom men... I'm not sure why... but I am very thankful!
Well, I'm single again and I stumbled into your comment so now's your chance.
@@vazzaroth i agree w that😹
Joyce where's the panel with Fi/Te? or at least a balance of Ti/Fe and Fi/Te?
intp here and i heavily relate to what spacey started talking about at 31:02. it doesn't come natural to me to fall into that Te and healthily use it and i usually let other people take charge of a situation. but when i have to work with others (group work already falls into my least fav things) and i can feel that no one else is capable of using that Te to get us ahead, i can actually seem kinda controlling which can develop pretty badly
Spacey has a point, i notice this alot about Fi-Te or Te-Fi, they will invoke their valuations to direct or exert control for their wants, likes, attachments and desires. I really dislike when they pull the "what about the children?!?!?!?".
So is Fi the only function that sees itself as a person? I’m confused about what Fe sees from its perspective, it sees itself as a bunch of tribe, just like my Te feels like a bunch of tribe, but then Ti would need to provide a sense of identity right? But Ti is impersonal, somewhere is the human in the TiFe?
Rules=Ti
Preferences=Fi
Consistency is an illusion… there are just patterns, some are simpler and some more complex. Complex patterns can still be consistent. It is just harder to spot the pattern. It’s like chaos theory in physics which has found order in what we perceive as chaos. Those T doms who are sensitive and patient enough will pick up on enough data to understand the patterns and logic of emotions and desires of an INFP 😊
Why would there be a rule set for what type of music Fi likes!? 😆 Wouldn’t that limit the potential and box it in if there was a rule about music selection? I like Bass and hate high pitch vocalists... I’m said to have Fi. Are those rules? I call them preferences. I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️
oof, the point of Fi users not being able to summarize and explain music genres liked hit me hard as an INFP and musician struggling hard on trying to describe my "brand" LMAO
I afraid of my ESTJ manager. Because he don't understand depth of the given task, rushing for no reason. Blackmailing... insecurity, micromanaging...
ENTP
natalie is my wife!!
Hi my love 🥺♥️
This about music… I’m not sure it’s a great example because I have bonded on music with NTP types who were also really into music.
I suffer from objective personality disorder
I’m an INFP if you ever want another INFP on one of your panels let me know 😜😜😜
natalie can be a great ventriloquist.
LOL MY SIXTH GRADE TEACHER SAID THE SAME THING. I don’t move my mouth enough when I talk 😂 thanks for making me laugh today. -Natalie
@@thatoneisfj2810 you gotta make those luscious lips work girl :p
To me, it sort of bothers me a lot when people act like someone else and not like they truly are. i don't even think at the moment, it's just this sort of repulse that comes to me when i see that happening which makes me literally forget all the polite rules and say ''ok act normally right now'' or ''stop putting on that mask''. I think that's just my Fi getting triggered.
3:36, so true.
@28:01 Interesting. She can remember a conversation from 2 years ago like it just pop in her head
Well, she said she continued thinking about it, that's the real interesting thing; I would just stop caring about it in a few days, maybe weeks if it was very important
@@giacomocasartelli5503That is interesting. Do you think it has to do with cognitive functions? I am trying to remember a conversation i had before or recently and i can't remember anything too (but that is because i think my head is rotting) i don't trust my memories and will write down important details or important events. I don't even memorize my phone number or even google password. I always wrote it down somewhere
@@hanjesse31 As far as I know lower Si (maybe even Se), may be a cause of bad memory and difficulty in remembering details.
@@giacomocasartelli5503 Or could it be that our brain can be lazy too specially when we take notes and save that ''memory'' externally because we find it dependable? Or as we get old the brain naturally can only hold certain informations and automatically trash old unused information. I remember in 2nd grade we were taught to recite the multiplication table and now i can't recite it, i solve it traditional way or calculator. Although our teacher said calculator makes the brain lazy... but even if we use a calculator, we still ask how the answer came to be and compute it traditionally. Right? Can our brain be lazy
@@hanjesse31 Our brain can indeed be lazy, but I think it has nothing to do with rote memorization. I study mathematics and I can't remember many of the formulas I've learned through my studies, but I don't deem my brain to be lazy; in fact I think it has more to do with how much you are willing to challenge your brain with interesting problems or discussions. Also, I think saving memory externally is necessary if you don't want to risk losing it and particularly in our society it's dumb to spend useful time memorizing something that you can usually find in little to no time: one should focus on learning concepts and skills or on creating abstract principles or systems to apply in everyday life's problems.
Why did everyone laugh after Boris mentioned OPS?
9.15 yeeeesssssss
It’s so funny when Boris said objective personality disorder
Sometimes to joke around with people I say stuff like “you’re wrong” or “have you looked into this perspective” but I actually wouldn’t have an idea and only after I said them I would make up something, of course when I’m not kidding around I depend more on my Ti to make the claim “you’re wrong”
Lol, I do the same thing. Making stuff up on the fly, but then the other person would keep thinking about it and I'd have moved on.
It can be really fun when I make the claim that something is wrong and then be put on the spot and have to weasel my way out with a good enough answer to get out of trouble lol
Does anybody else feel like they exhibit almost all cognitive functions somewhat equally?
Next time you do an Fi focused video just give us a cat to watch while we listen.
Only an INTP would have toilet paper dead center of their screen
Let me tell you a secret healthy Te have already made plans after you f something up.
Joyce is Fe placating @ 34:10 😛
Ngl I think I *despise* Fe. It almost 100% of the time appears fake and manipulative and so many of the people that I know who have this function, anywhere in their stack, cannot, for the love of god, just tell me what the feel about something. The reluctance is SO FRUSTRATING. Do you even know what you feel? Bc I end up in situations where I want to give an Fe user what they want and they can't just be clear about it. As an Fi user, I'm aware of what I feel all of the time, and I'm not obligated to be stagnant in that emotion, it's just a recognition of a feeling. Like who cares if someone feels differently, they are not me! I am not them! I have to live with *myself*.
One good thing Fe users have taught me is my delivery, although I still get frustrated when someone is paying more attention to my tone than the content of my words. Like sure, I'm feeling something, anyway, pay attention to what my Te is trying to explain. It feels very entitled to expect me to change how I feel so you can receive me better, so you can hear the content of my words.
Can you plz do a video on explaining Fe? How it is when it's toxic, how it is when healthy? Say all the things. SAY. THEM. Bc when you don't for fear of conflict, all I end up hearing is silence.