Finally a face to the name! I’m a 35 year old framing contractor out of California. I’ve been framing since I was 18 and been in business on my own for 8 years as of October 2023. Your book has been in my toolbox from day 1! Cheers 🍻
100%. . . It’s the same here in the UK. Other than gas and electrical installation, I handle everything on the renovations I do. The number of hours making architectural and structural designs actually work is just crazy. Aren’t they supposed to be the smart ones?! Interesting seeing how you handle the bastard hips. Always good to see how our brothers across the pond work.
My mind is geared towards the practical so seeing as I was interested in Geometry, but wasn't inclined to study it purely for academic interests, decided to blend the two hence ROOF FRAMING, and that's what works for me! :)
I am so happy this came out! I would like to better understand the math though such as how you came up with that 6in offset. Does the book give more detail?
The amount of the hip offset depends on the pitch combination and the width of the overhang. The formula is: (high pitch - low pitch) x overhang width ÷ Low pitch = the hip offset. This is given in the book. The book also gives the hip and valley offsets for several standard overhangs already pre-calculated on each of the 68 different pitch combinations in the book. Thanks for watching!
My short and simple reply . . . For (“More Perfect") Irregular Hip/Val roofs, the “Effective Tail lengths” should be detailed to include or from the outside of the Fasia materials to the bearing plates (HAPs) so that the equal dimension of the materials is properly accounted for and keeping the H/V line intersecting the at the outer long-points Fascia Corner Miters.
If it is to be accurate you would have to back the hip since the hip drop would be different for each side. But, if the pitch spread isn't too wide you could cheat a little and drop the hip the average of the two sides hip drop. It wouldn't be perfect, but good enough for it to work. Thanks for watching!
I’m trying to figure the formula for getting the pitch on a bastard hip. In your video and book I see it’s 9 3/8” pitch on the hip from a 8/12 and 12/12 pitch. Trying to figure the formula. There is no tables for some bastards that I have coming up like 6.5/12 and 8.75/12 pitch. Thanks in advance. Also is there any place I can go to see more on how to use the book.
If you look on page 216 there are universal roof formulas. You can use those to get the runs of the rafters of any pitch, including the fractional pitches that you mention. Unfortunately I don't have a simplified formula to give the hip pitch. It will require some calculation. However if you take it piece by piece you can calculate the various pieces. If you calculate the run and rise of the hip rafter you can determine the overall hip pitch. The UA-cam videos are the most in depth explanation of the book that is available. I wish you well, and as always thanks for watching!
Looking at your website, you definitely build impressive structures. For that reason, I was thinking you might direct me to a solution for my sunroom project. I am adding a cathedral ceiling sunroom by extending the first floor on the back of my home which has a second floor 12" cantilevered extension. The challenge is supporting the ridge beam on the rim of the cantilever. What methods should I consider? I would appreciate any guidance you can provide. Thank you, Chuck Raleigh, NC
Supporting any significant load on an existing cantilever is a problem. There are too many variables to give you an answer. You need a competent professional to check it out. I suggest you call Kevin Munson, PE of Residential Structures, Inc. They are very good structural engineers that I have known for 20 years. Good luck!
Great video! the example at the 22:10 mark... wouldn't that drop the entire rafter by 1"... even at the ridge? Do you have to adjust the angle of the seat cut and plumb cut at the ridge? Or is that change in angle trivial?
No, I guess I didn't communicate that well. The rafter isn't moving at all. It stays in exactly the same place. In the example we needed a 4" plate build up due to the pitch difference. Because plates are 1 1/2" thick, it is cumbersome to get that 4", so instead we built up the plate 3" (two 2x4's) and moved the birdsmouth seat cut the last 1". The rafter didn't move. The seat cut line moved down 1" which allows the rafter to bear on the lower plate at 3". I hope that explains it better. Thanks for watching!
Well, that is just the math. It takes several steps to get those lengths, but once you have them you can use a "factor" to get other lengths of the same pitch combination. Since the relationship of one value to the other is proportional, you can use those factors to get the lengths in one calculation instead of several. The factor chart is just a shortcut way to get the answer. Thanks for watching!
Since the hip often crosses the wall off of the corner on bastard hips, the plumb cut will be cut on an angle. If you have unequal overhangs the hip would hit on the wall corner. In that case I don't bevel the plumb cut. I would just cut it square. Thanks for watching!
That isn't a dumb question at all. There are a lot of situations that will force the use of two different pitches on a hip roof, but the most common one is narrow building lots. This often causes the homes to be deeper than they are wide. If you use the same pitch all the way around then the ridge will run front to back instead of side to side. This doesn't make the front elevation very attractive. By using steeper pitches on the ends, the designer can massage the ridge direction and /or lengths to make the elevations better looking. Thanks for watching!
No, we don't have a metric edition. I would recommend the metric edition of Roof Cutter's Secrets, written by my friend, Will Holladay. Thanks for watching!
We don't have a metric edition. I have sold these in metric countries for years. I presume where the pitch ratio is the same, say a 12/12 pitch, or 45 degrees, then they could still use the factor chart. The factor chart doesn't care what the unit of measure is. It would still be valid. I'm not sure exactly what they are doing, but many have used it. Thanks for watching!
Amen! Architects and engineers both should have mandatory exposure to real life job conditions as a part of their training. I never cease to be amazed at the level of ignorance, and frankly laziness, of even long tenured architects. Turning out some half drawn unworkable design doesn't seem to faze them. It is unfortunately the rule rather than the exception. There are some good ones out there. It is a real pleasure when you get to work with them. Thanks for watching!
Without a doubt, bastard hip roofs are not for the beginner. The "blue book" that comes with a speed square is useful for simple roofs, but of course has no info for bastard roofs. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for watching! Be sure and check out our playlist for all of our videos
ua-cam.com/play/PLnAGFrVJFLUvFnLYGOE40E3ye9vtuXjY8.html
Finally a face to the name! I’m a 35 year old framing contractor out of California. I’ve been framing since I was 18 and been in business on my own for 8 years as of October 2023. Your book has been in my toolbox from day 1! Cheers 🍻
Good deal! Great to hear from you.
Thank you for this great video
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching!
sir you are the master of roof framing
I'm just an old carpenter. Thanks for watching!
100%. . . It’s the same here in the UK. Other than gas and electrical installation, I handle everything on the renovations I do. The number of hours making architectural and structural designs actually work is just crazy. Aren’t they supposed to be the smart ones?!
Interesting seeing how you handle the bastard hips. Always good to see how our brothers across the pond work.
Some things are just universal. In the end a carpenter has to fix it. Thanks for watching!
My mind is geared towards the practical so seeing as I was interested in Geometry, but wasn't inclined to study it purely for academic interests, decided to blend the two hence ROOF FRAMING, and that's what works for me! :)
I'm building a 12x16' storage shed and I want to put a hip roof on top. I found your channel and also ordered the roofers bible. Thank for your help.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Very useful ,you are an excellent instructor!
Thank you sir. Thanks for watching!
Hi, thanks for that book I bought it 24 years ago , did help me alot
That's great! Thanks for watching.
So glad to have subscribed!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Got the roof framers Bible brilliant book
Glad you like it, and thanks for watching!
I am so happy this came out! I would like to better understand the math though such as how you came up with that 6in offset. Does the book give more detail?
The amount of the hip offset depends on the pitch combination and the width of the overhang. The formula is: (high pitch - low pitch) x overhang width ÷ Low pitch = the hip offset. This is given in the book. The book also gives the hip and valley offsets for several standard overhangs already pre-calculated on each of the 68 different pitch combinations in the book. Thanks for watching!
My short and simple reply . . . For (“More Perfect") Irregular Hip/Val roofs, the “Effective Tail lengths” should be detailed to include or from the outside of the Fasia materials to the bearing plates (HAPs) so that the equal dimension of the materials is properly accounted for and keeping the H/V line intersecting the at the outer long-points Fascia Corner Miters.
this is good video sir thanks for sharing this good stuff
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
Does the top of irregular hip have to be beveled or can you drop it like regular hip ? Thx for the good teaching.
If it is to be accurate you would have to back the hip since the hip drop would be different for each side. But, if the pitch spread isn't too wide you could cheat a little and drop the hip the average of the two sides hip drop. It wouldn't be perfect, but good enough for it to work. Thanks for watching!
@@RoofFramersBible thankyou
I just posted the bastard hip part 2 video. It specifically answers your earlier question. Check it out.
Ok thx
I believe it is shifted if you don't bevel. They use this technique called french scribe I believe. It's complex to achieve
I’m trying to figure the formula for getting the pitch on a bastard hip. In your video and book I see it’s 9 3/8” pitch on the hip from a 8/12 and 12/12 pitch. Trying to figure the formula. There is no tables for some bastards that I have coming up like 6.5/12 and 8.75/12 pitch. Thanks in advance. Also is there any place I can go to see more on how to use the book.
If you look on page 216 there are universal roof formulas. You can use those to get the runs of the rafters of any pitch, including the fractional pitches that you mention. Unfortunately I don't have a simplified formula to give the hip pitch. It will require some calculation. However if you take it piece by piece you can calculate the various pieces. If you calculate the run and rise of the hip rafter you can determine the overall hip pitch. The UA-cam videos are the most in depth explanation of the book that is available. I wish you well, and as always thanks for watching!
Looking at your website, you definitely build impressive structures. For that reason, I was thinking you might direct me to a solution for my sunroom project.
I am adding a cathedral ceiling sunroom by extending the first floor on the back of my home which has a second floor 12" cantilevered extension. The challenge is supporting the ridge beam on the rim of the cantilever. What methods should I consider?
I would appreciate any guidance you can provide.
Thank you,
Chuck
Raleigh, NC
Supporting any significant load on an existing cantilever is a problem. There are too many variables to give you an answer. You need a competent professional to check it out. I suggest you call Kevin Munson, PE of Residential Structures, Inc. They are very good structural engineers that I have known for 20 years. Good luck!
Thank you for the lead.
Great video! the example at the 22:10 mark... wouldn't that drop the entire rafter by 1"... even at the ridge? Do you have to adjust the angle of the seat cut and plumb cut at the ridge? Or is that change in angle trivial?
No, I guess I didn't communicate that well. The rafter isn't moving at all. It stays in exactly the same place. In the example we needed a 4" plate build up due to the pitch difference. Because plates are 1 1/2" thick, it is cumbersome to get that 4", so instead we built up the plate 3" (two 2x4's) and moved the birdsmouth seat cut the last 1". The rafter didn't move. The seat cut line moved down 1" which allows the rafter to bear on the lower plate at 3". I hope that explains it better. Thanks for watching!
I do have a 8/12 and a 15/12 coming up. My question is how did you get the .533 and .854 to get the 15/12 run, rafter length and 1.315 for the hip???
Well, that is just the math. It takes several steps to get those lengths, but once you have them you can use a "factor" to get other lengths of the same pitch combination. Since the relationship of one value to the other is proportional, you can use those factors to get the lengths in one calculation instead of several. The factor chart is just a shortcut way to get the answer. Thanks for watching!
Did you bevel the plumb cut of the birds mouth on the hip rafters at the end ?
Since the hip often crosses the wall off of the corner on bastard hips, the plumb cut will be cut on an angle. If you have unequal overhangs the hip would hit on the wall corner. In that case I don't bevel the plumb cut. I would just cut it square. Thanks for watching!
I use the roofing ready reckoner in the U.K because I use metric mostly. I do own this book though.
Great! Thanks for watching!
Dumb question but what would be an example or senerio someone would build a roof like this?
That isn't a dumb question at all. There are a lot of situations that will force the use of two different pitches on a hip roof, but the most common one is narrow building lots. This often causes the homes to be deeper than they are wide. If you use the same pitch all the way around then the ridge will run front to back instead of side to side. This doesn't make the front elevation very attractive. By using steeper pitches on the ends, the designer can massage the ridge direction and /or lengths to make the elevations better looking. Thanks for watching!
Is there a Roof Framer's Bible in metric?
No, we don't have a metric edition. I would recommend the metric edition of Roof Cutter's Secrets, written by my friend, Will Holladay. Thanks for watching!
Anything in metric?
We don't have a metric edition. I have sold these in metric countries for years. I presume where the pitch ratio is the same, say a 12/12 pitch, or 45 degrees, then they could still use the factor chart. The factor chart doesn't care what the unit of measure is. It would still be valid. I'm not sure exactly what they are doing, but many have used it. Thanks for watching!
As an architect of 50yrs it is because 99% of architects have NEVER worked in the field
Amen! Architects and engineers both should have mandatory exposure to real life job conditions as a part of their training. I never cease to be amazed at the level of ignorance, and frankly laziness, of even long tenured architects. Turning out some half drawn unworkable design doesn't seem to faze them. It is unfortunately the rule rather than the exception. There are some good ones out there. It is a real pleasure when you get to work with them. Thanks for watching!
Got this book its okay but its not for beginners like it says, the blue book is better.
Without a doubt, bastard hip roofs are not for the beginner. The "blue book" that comes with a speed square is useful for simple roofs, but of course has no info for bastard roofs. Thanks for watching!