Su-27 Should Be Nerfed? : Su-27 vs F15, F16, Gripen, and Mirage 4000!!
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2023
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Should the Su-27 be nerfed in war thunder? I am saying this because many people think it should be the case and how superior the F-15 is to the Su27! To be completely honest, the Su-27 is really good! yet it is not game breaking or anything! most fights that happen in realistic battles are going to be long range missile kills and planes like the F-15 or F16 as an example shouldn't have a problem competing. To say it simply the Su-27 is a lighter more maneuverable Russian version of the F-14 tomcat. Planes like the JAS39 Gripen or the Mirage 4000 should kill it easily in a dogfight yet at long range and in BVR they will suffer against it.
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As for the people who are worried how their favorite aircraft will perform in matches, don’t worry about it. In air rb matches, winning even a 1v1 is not difficult and not super dependent on your aircraft since all top tier aircraft perform similar enough to each other.
Just enter the fight at the right speed and you win within the first turn or two.
Grind out and play your favorite aircraft without worry of the “meta.”
I mean, the F-4J will end up in matches with these planes... Not really 'fair' tbh.
For playing all nations top tier air wise, I’d just like for most, or all, of the fm to be realistic or somewhat “realistic” to how it would actually perform. Dislike when Gaijin adds vehicles but they’re suppressed in their performance. Armament wise, I understand why some armament can’t be added, that’s ok. But not ok when the fm’s are completely messed up either over performing or underperforming
Yeah but then change their tiers and brs…
Or just wait to introduce certain planes.
Funny how some people don't understand how strong the m4k is in a dogfight
yea lol m4k has unlimited energy
That thing is a UFO
I never saw one on the dev server to fight it unfortunately
@@areyou0k98 and the update is coming tomorrow , bruh gripen is gonna pull 17Gs lol.
@@hemendraravi4787wow tomorrow a u sure?
Muh eagle!!!!
the Su-27 is lacking climb rate and acceleration, the Chinese Su27SK which is the j11a in the game was slightly heavier (570kg+/-) than the Su-27s/p, it had an acceleration rate on average two seconds behind the F15 ( I don't remember it being A or C), rate of climb at almost exact 300m/s, in the game it's almost as if the su27 had the TWR of a tomcat, whereas the average TWR of a flanker was above 1.11 at its combat weight (22.5t of weight/ 25t of thrust)
If you have files that can prove that report it
@@CREELASTIf his comment is true, he'd need to get lucky for anything to happen, gaijin is going through a phase right now where nothing is being accepted, you can find several videos of these cases on youtube rn.
Irl the Chinese one irl is not heavier.
Oh shut up, it does not need nerfed lmao
Honestly both su27s and f15s are as they should be with maybe a bit of tweaking to thrust but the mirage 4k and gripen are definitely a bit cracked they should definitely be able to pull high aoa but damn being able to pull nearly 20gs in a turn and sustain it in a gripen is crazy
fr, who knew the two more obscure aircraft of the patch would be cracked out of this world... I'm glad the Gripen will be good, but it should be (imo) slightly worse than the F 16 with its own quirks. The M4K though... that thing is ridiculous.
The F-16As FM respectively is complete and utter bullshit, it is probably the most over performing gen 4 in game currently on the live server.
The F-15 and Su-27 should be bvr monsters, i dotn get why more people dont show off their bvr capabilities.
Because people still think war thunder is about dogfighting for some reason. The mindless furball doesn't count as a dogfight and if you try to you're just gonna get a missile up the ass.
BVR of the f15A is a joke compared to the su27.
Because they arent that better then the f16c and mig29smt
@@Brother_Ronyyes they are 💀
BVR is very lame Not worth It
Actually ive heard somewhere that su-27 should be at certain speed better in two circle than f-15.. not by much, for like 1.5-2 degree but still.. so technically it should be better but for players that are managing speed with mouse in two circle fights dont allow that. I would like to test it out in WT but yeah dev server is off..
su27 does indeed outrate f15 at low speeds.
When both are at their ideal rate speeds though the f15 has 1 degree over the flanker
@@bt_the_yank6234 under 700kmph flanker is better in a rate. above that f15 is good.
@@bt_the_yank6234it doesn't, the su 27 sustains 23° while the f15 is around 20-21 and it will begin losing its speed fast
@jaek__ people saying the su-27 is over preforming crack me up! 😆
The su27 is completely fine, the problem is that we got the worst possible f15 variant. There's no reason to play with the Eagle instead of the Viper unless you, for some reason, want to carry 2 more 7Ms which are absolute dogcrap missiles, not to mention that the f16 can carry up to 6 9Ms, if we think about it, if the f15A got added back in Apex Predators with 9Ls together with the f16 and the mig29, it would make no difference. Apparently they plan to release fox3s very soon and maybe they weren't ready yet so that's the reason for not getting the C variant instead of the A, until then, unfortunately, US will kinda suffer a bit, but that's just how war thunder works.
bro f16 is already the meta lol , calm down us having the 2nd best dogfight or maybe the f16 is still >> gripen , just for 2 months till they add amraams. just how they add better aim7s like aim7p or aim7mh
@@hemendraravi4787 dogfights are kinda not so important rn, even so, the f16 can perform better only against the russians in that regard, it loses to both the mirage4k and the gripen aaaand we need to consider the fact that the f16 is also overperforming, it may be nerfed very soon
@@hemendraravi4787they haven’t added the AMRAAMs or AIM-7MH so it’s fair to complain until then. Plus the F-15 is mega underperforming right now
@@Iden_in_the_Rain yea surprised that ppl r not crying for amraams or aim7mh/p maybe we will get it 1 week after the update like r27er
@@hemendraravi4787 mh and p wouldn't be that different from the m, they should add amraams imo
I'm very curious, how weight sensitive is the SU27.
Will it turn into a bus when fully loaded with missiles kind of like the F-16?
its energy retention is a bigger problem than missile weight from what ive seen
yes, with max fuel and missiles it turns kinda like a bus at lower speeds
You gotta factor in the facts that Soviet designers made the jets more light and agile so that they could do harder turns
And then if you add the feature of movable jet engine nozzle made the jets do even harder turns
All this was to compensate for the fact that the jets were to be used for like 40 years so having features that still are hard to beat 20 years later is a good thing
it feels good, as a sweden aficionado, to finally be on a level playing field.
The 27 also missing it’s weapon selection in the cockpit
Ah yes, that age old narrative that the USSR cant have awesome things and that anything that shows strength from that nation is obviously just bias....
It used to make me mad, now I find it amusing. Pity we cant just appreciate the endeavors of each nation as it deserves, each has its things it dominates at, but I don't see that when it comes to nations labeled as "the bad guys".
Meh just my opinion.
*Adding some context:
I'm not saying this video shows any of this, I guess it was just on my mind reading the title and considering the remarks. again just my thoughts :P
Who says they can’t have awesome things? Everyone literally loves, and if anything, overhyped their military tech to the moon. It’s the best performing all around nation in the game as well….?
The flankers FM is under preforming actually, this can be proven by real videos of the flankers actual turn preformance, the issue is it gets unfair weapons.
There’s a thing I’ve noticed with war thunder. So I was not complaining and I never complained about the f15 performance what we want is missiles because the f15 doesn’t stand a chance, what did we get? We got the SU 27 Nerfed and then better model and way better performance for the f15… nobody asked for. Nobody was asking for the F-16 to get that insanely good at dogfighting. Are we complaining? No not necessarily but I grind the entire tree for this and I’m I am disappointed, I’m not gonna get the 29s because they suck the SU 27 I think is pretty OK but now you can’t outturn out speed the F 15, which, considering the small ammunition you have basically makes it so if you dogfight you lose. Yes, I’m aware I have it but my brother who I played against the majority of the time. I’ve never been able to hit him with any missiles and yes, I know we’ve only played for one day, considering how the update just dropped, but still have not hit him with a single one😂 error on my part, or has a problem with constantly adding things nobody asks for and then you end up with some stuff that’s just blatantly overpowered. Yes I Maine who loves the US more than anything. Think that a lot of US planes don’t get added necessarily but Either in the server or in later updates to just get crazy good. I’m hoping that when the F150 gets its missiles, they make it so it turns less.
how have you manage to launch your R73 at flares
You know he had the enemy locked but than he drops flares and the IR seeker locks onto the flares. Also he did not have the time to turn off the seeker head and turn it back on to get a better lock.
I mean personally I wouldn’t have launched any missile at that scenario. But I guess with the pressure of the battle everyone makes mistakes
Can do one of these with the mirage 4000 I don’t hear abt it enough
not even one day of it being released and people already saying it needs to be nerfed
Grippen with its active canard is a thing i wonder if the mirage 4000 can do the same
no, the canards on the M4K are fixed in place.
@@CarolusR3x Aahh so sad :(
Su27 does not need a nerf, f15 should have its amraams though. The BFM capability is close enough but 6 Top tier missiles in game is an issue. Furthermore more advanced tactics allow the ER's not even give the opposing pilot a RWR ping if done correctlly
F-16A can beat everyone in the 1-circle which is ridiculous since it shouldn't be beating everything in the 1-circle. Did some testing and noticed it can beat the M2K, MiG-29, Su-27, F-15J, and M4K. F-16 is not polished FM, its over-buffed to the point it is flying like a UFO right now.
If anything russian is good people instantly call it bias, but when it comes to others, its simply because they are good! People need to grow up, vehicles are designed to do their jobs and almost all of them do their designated job pretty good.
Why are all fights 10ft off the ground? I'd merge high enough to split S.
cuz gaijin made low flying target not reachable by SARH missiles and no threats from MPADS to set a hard floor
@@nelsonh.9651 But the Su-27 has the most best SARH missiles. It can just kill anything that challenges it right?
This terrain following shit is rat behaviour for inferior fighters and bombers and it is not "air superiority"
I don't want any vehicles getting nerfed ever. But they should make the F15 a real F15.
It's the F-15A MSIP. It's only missing the TWS radar and the AMRAAM. It is a real F-15.
@Independent118 Pretty sure it is also the incorrect engines.
Every update content creators comparing vehicles in these dogfight videos but it just not tells the truth of the planes real performance. In an air RB dogfight is just the worst decision you can make in a plane with BVR missiles. Playing 16v16 TWS radar matters the most first of all then the radar missile and the quantity. The manouverability only matters in the end of the match when not that many players left but the distribution always favors one team and you have to realise you cant win a 5v2 with dogfight on top tier.
I think the problem is similar performance to the F15, while havingthe best radar missiles and a crazy dogfight missile (loadouts of 6 and 4 or 4 and 6 respectively) which is ridiculous, where is the Aim-7MH? That would level the field atleast a bit...
What does the MH add over the M?
@@Doberman300 slightly better guidance and lofting for long range shots.
@@CorneliusTheWizardDog thanks!
the aam-3 is nasty already
@@sherifaljeddawy2467 that's an IR missile.
I don't want the flight model nerfed. I want the number of missiles nerfed or the aim-120 added because the bvr capability of the su-27 is going to be op. just want some way to counter the jet not just by flying low.
Aim 120 is slower than an ER missile
It's a Fox 3, meaning it can still go on after losing the radar lock. That's why its better.@@mich421
you can go cold
As a U.S main its nice to see other nations like Japan, France and Sweden rise up in the meta as well as maybe the U.K with their own gripen. I usually dont like having 2 or a single nation constantly dominate the meta all the time.
Update tommorow Fr fr
Going to be a good day when the snail stops gatekeeping HOBS IR weapons.
At 5:05 that fucking R-73 did a full 180.
Ye,ye,ye, all soviet/russian tech should be nerfed af
If NATO has thermal imagers... smart bombs... laser guided ammo and can carry heaps of it plus 4 AAMs at the same time, then the SU27 deserves to have 10 AAMs but nearly no ground capabilities.... Besides the Gripens are all getting HMD so why are you not talking about it getting nerfed???????
no match for my po 2
12/14
12:00 GMT
Prepare yourselves people CHRISTMAS IS EARLY THIS YEAR
Am i the only one seeing that the mirage is better than the gripen in a dogdight?
I have seen it
Not in longer terms one circle mirrage wins it but after a few turns gripen shreds the mirrage
@@CruLisP depends because in rate fight mirage wins thanks to the thrust, it wins in one circle thanks to the enormous delta wings, the only thing gripen wins is instantaneous turn rate which only lasts 2 turns
Is not russian bias, cause the flankers are king of dogfight although has bad bvr capabilities
Bad bvr capabilities? For 90s idk man....
ER still a good missile even against the first fox3s
F15A(1976)/C(1988) dont have a single missile to use 100% of its radar capabilities in a normal combat (no awacs, no big advantages against enemies) etc and etc...
Bad in BVR? Bro that thing has 6 R27ERs
@@rgaeaben8043think he means the 27 radar which is still incorrect
Limit the Flankers to 2 ER/ET at a time, and give F-15 AIM-7MH. That's about the best you can do to balance it right now.
The best option is to continue on the path they're on. An overpowered flanker means AMRAAM sooner. Especially since the AIM-7MH won't actually matter most of the time, the only kinetic advantage is the ability to loft and that only happens at long range, when inside the loft range the performance would be just about the same as the M with a slightly improved seeker.
@@sometoastxd true, but when AMRAAM comes so does R-77, which is still superior at least in range, so nothing will change.
@@jacobbaumgardner3406 there's no reason to assume R-77 must come alongside. Also the current flankers being added shouldn't be able to carry them to the best of my knowledge.
@@sometoastxd J-11 can, and they’d just add a modification for the Su-27 or just add a new Flanker for Russia.
Also, it’s gaijin, they’ll add it especially if it fucks over everyone else but Russia.
R-77 is 100% coming when AMRAAM comes, that’s a fact.
Поплачь, не у что хоть раз ввели советскую/российскую технику не кастрированной так запад сразу ноет, из-за вас и ограничивают все возможности советских/российских машин, тем более для америкосов уже дали волшебный баф Ф15 который в реальности не способен перекручивать Су-27, а вы продолжаете ныть
What i think about plane F-15 a down bad need buff
Su-27 it overwhelming plane not good but not bad it lack a bit of thrust
Gripin & mirages the deltawing and canned is so op man the turn performance is god like i think deltawing should be good performance for low speed only good for gripin and mirage player they have a good plane if weapons is accurate no one have change of dog flight
This is my personal opinion gg my eng
Even more buff?
I want f15 load out buff
Y’all finna go bananas when the su35 gets added if y’all think this is op finna get him 100km away from a r37M
Mig31 go brrrrrrrrrrr 🤣 the R37M would break the game a little but would be fun to make the US mains cry harder than ever
@@Corefailure24that’s like saying let’s add the aim-120 c to make Russia mains cry💀
@@Corefailure24the meteor would kill any fun the su 35 and mig 31 would try to have ngl, that missile is actually scary unlike the glorified Soviet Phoenix
ngl, r37m and aim120c would break the game too much, gaijin would need to introduce country sized missions and specifics mechanics to let it sit for balance
if anything the su-27 flight model should be buffed it loses way to much speed which is gonna make it unfun to fly in air rb
"6× R-27ER"
That explains everything.
It's complete bias by using 1990's missile while anybody can't.
And, the solution is simple: Limit the R-27ER count. thats all.
Hahahaha, I love it when Western players cry
@@Qwerty-gs1uxsame
People think su27 is bad, wait till we get the rest of the flankers 😂
Wait till we get the better US plane, don't worry
@@fqeagles21USA has the best performance in the top tier aviation line. The only thing there is to bitch about is the missles from Russian planes.
@@Ghost-tw7xw Armaments it's still part of the equation
The F-16A is also hilarously over performing
Which variant? If you mean the Block 10, that is Gaijin's implementation of it. No aircraft in this game flies 100% realistically.
Su-27 always wins if you just turn on full real control
Nope you just make yourself in more harder situation the gripen will gets around you even faster while you bleed your energy
Su-27 needs buffed
The only problem with su27 rn is the missiles yes the missiles. It doesn’t need a buff or nerf rlly. I can fight them well as long as the missiles can be flared which cannot be accomplished at the moment😂
Yes they can
hi
Hello!
soooooooooooo f15 not that good .....USA screams for f18....
Su-27 must be upped. It heavily underperforms right now
Agree
It really doesn’t.
People just expected air show aerobatics against a blue backdrop to be indicative of the plane’s maneuver utility and actual combat capabilities.
It’s a huge plane. It’s not going to be light as an F16 or as dominant at turning as a delta wing.
Yes, maybe it can use a slight improvement, but it’s in no way “heavily underperforming”.
Just cause it can’t beat every 4th gen fighter in the game people are crying.
It’s fine in the dev server and is absolutely scary when it’s used by someone who knows what they’re doing.
I don’t even like approaching them in the F15 cause the disadvantage is so great.
Doesn't it have like 6 R27? Why should it be buffed?
@@212thfives8 We playing realistic game, not WoT.
@@Takemura76 It realy does!
It lags far behind in terms of g-force and turning speed at low speeds.
At speeds less than 600 kph it should outperform the F-15 by 5 degrees/s, and only lose the advantage after 1100 kph.
Also note that the Su-27 can be a large aircraft and heavy, but in comparison with it the aerodynamics of the F-15/16 are more like a brick
The su-27 is still lacking low speed performance along side the f-15. The flanker realistically shouldn't lose to anything in the merge because it gets its nose around ridiculously fast i went against a buddy in the gripen (dcs mod) and i always got my nose around faster than him. Tried with the eagle and it went either way because both fighters perform so similarly that its ultimately down to who fucks up first. Gripen should be unshakable and the flanker should win every 1 circle unless its a eagle. If you dont believe me, watch growling sidewinders video on both dogfights. Gripen won because of Iris-T being insane (both of his losses was because the flanker did some crazy shit) and the flanker won against the eagle because he played his cards better
Gripen in dcs is a f15 fm just saying
@@CruLisP ik but with the way it flies in dcs and irl, the flanker should always win in the merge while the gripen should be able to perform decently against a flanker until it gets on its six, then its ggs for the flanker. The gripen shouldn't win the 1 circle or the merge because the flanker just pulls harder. The gripen is a hunter, the flanker is a ballerina
Su-27 is better.
The su27 is fine how it is i dont believe in nerfing it just buff the f15s weapons with aim120s
How horrible was Russian jet that they’re so embarrassed to put jets from the time era that would be appropriate to the F-15 that they literally just skip 10 years and go right to the flanker . You know why because the fox bat in the fox hound would not stand a chance as a matter fact those planes are not even in the game. And even like today we’re still 10 years more than advanced, and they are. Just sucks that they do that in the game should be fair planes from the same time era as we expand I guess that means we’ll never get to see the fox hound and the Fox bat
It seems like the F-16C is underperforming
search for a video called "the insane engineering of f-16" and skip to 5:26
no friend, the f-16 is not underperforming, it is overbuffed! You don't have to look far to know that an f16 doesn't have as much AOA as is practiced in war thunder
@@Bad_Karma777 Now go to the forum and say this, the main US will say that the test pilot of the plane from their country is wrong and war thunder current FM is correct
@@Bad_Karma777 Mmm is that so. Well to be fair all planes in war thunder doesnt have realistic AoA since irl AoA of the F-16 is mostly based on the pilot's capabilities
@@WarDaddy8917 Have you ever taken a WTRTI and tested their performance plane by plane to say that?
@@WarDaddy8917 all the planes are in relatively good shape, mirage 2000, harrier, mig29, mig23, mirage f1, F-14, they are very similar to IRL performance, well modeled in this case, if you look at the f-16 numbers you will discover that it is not an F-16... at least not in war thunder, the plane was purposely buffed
Oh geez, Gaijin uses bullshit russian theoretical numbers instead of actual real-life performance numbers for Russian vehicles?! NO WAY!!! /s
US mains cant just stop whining cant they? Something russian that's not castrated: oH nO rUssIan biAs neRf plS.
USSR main should stop whining too?
Remember the R-60 age? lmao.
It's endless fight with that logic, having no meaning.
@@Takamiya_Mio R60 was nerfed into the dirt, just like the aim9L, the problem however, is that R60 was nerfed MONTHS before aim9 and now orginal mig 29 had to use those useless missiles and despite all that US mains still whined regardless. USSR mains asking to not castrate their vehicles, while US mains want no competition
@@SovietUnion_Literally when I unlocked the mig 29 it felt like a castrated plane with shitty missiles and I had to endure the f16 spam to get the SMT out and it still feels castrated and like a stone
They have to buff the Su27
You do know everyone said it’s FM is finished right?
You do know it’s the most bias plane in the game right
@@rgaeaben8043 but it needs more muahaha
well more bias needed
@@bc6189
@@bc6189you do know that's not a reason to not buff it to IRL levels
Especially since y'all us mains cope about underperforming and unrealism 247
I look at the wars fought in the last 30 years and I clearly see the superiority of US aircraft. Don't expect more from the Russian game.
dude the su27 also has a good record. go watch general lee vid , he will show that su27 has better raw performance than f15 , just wait for 2 months for amraams , f16 is already the meta.
This is a game not real life pilot training and plenty of other factors made the us win this is just aircraft against aircraft not that hard to understand 😊
@@theycallmetray396 I'm not talking about winning the war, ı'm talking about gaining air superiority. Russian planes were never as good as they were made out to be. Their only advantage is that they are cheap, that's all.
Dude this is a game where you are meant to be competitive with each other. If it wasn’t the only viable air nation at top tier would be US. It’s definitely not biased towards rus anymore, maybe back in the day but not so much anymore. Rn rus has better missiles but US has better performance and when fox3’s drop better missile most likely or at least equally good ones.
@@Axi-Sol The solution to this is not to turn the F15 into a flying piece of tin.
Su 27 is perfectly fine because it has 10 of the game's best missiles
I guess people should be upset at reality then, cause the future flankers we’ll get are only going to get stronger in weaponry and even flight performance for some 😮💨
@@thatoneguy1741F-15 is artificially nerfed by not getting its AMRAAMs
@@Iden_in_the_Rain no
@@ferrous3262 yes, how is it fair for the Su-27 to be both better at dogfighting and BVR? Plus the F-15 is just straight up not getting all of its armament
@@thatoneguy1741oh don't worry if USA won't be nerfed USA would have better planes too
Нато скот сново ноет!