There are still people looking for and discovering new things in the world of Shadow of The Colossus. It baffles me how the community around this game is still as in love with it as the day it launched (me included).
To play it in the ps2 as a kid, then in the ps3 as a teen and finally in the ps4 as an adult, it certainly has been a journey!! Edit: a lot of money as well hahaha
@@maxderrat it may not be profound necessarily but a good psychological game I'd like you to do a review on or to get your take on would be martha is dead
“Kids, in this class we’re going to cover the entirety of the Metal Gear Solid series, and explore what Kojima-san means when he talked about the war economy, artificial intelligence, memes, and the ramifications of genetically modifying child soldiers.”
The BioShock series is taught me a a lot, it showed me that people in position's of power do not liked to be challenged, they will lable you "the bad guy" and get rid of you by any means necessary, it also shows how easy it is to manipulate people and turn them against you, anyway BioShock is a great series and I'm glad it made your list Max 👍
Get rid of you by any means necessary? That reminds me of the current epidemic we have, cancle culture. And the side that's the biggest perpetrator of cancle culture by far.
@@iHaveTheDocuments anyone who recognizes this is immideately labed an "enemy of the people". Weaponizing the common men of the country you're in charge of never fails.
Nier taught me it’s all fun and games until you’re Roomba stars flicking red and stars saying cute things like “this cannot continue” and “become as gods”
The first Nier also poses many difficult questions, mainly regarding what fulfills people in their lives, and if there is any meaning in trying to find who is right or wrong in conflicts. Really excited to play the remaster/pseudo-remake that's soon to be released!
This guys notion of profundity seems to revolve quite heavily around media featuring cybernetics, AI, and human consciousness. Otherwise I could pull up plenty of profound games that would outclass some of the ones on this list. Planescape: Torment is one of them. Along with 2 games he even showed clips for, Hellblade: Senuas Sacrifice, and Spec Ops: The Line. Hell, as simple and grotesque as it is, "The Binding of Isaac" is pretty profound
I have started SOMA 2x now, and have to finish it! Max, a game that really blew my mind recently was Death Stranding. It is incredible and cerebral and made me think for a long time.
Disco Elysium should be near the top as one of the most introspective thought-provoking that really delve into the human psyche addiction loneliness depression no other video game let's you contend with your mind and how your mind and experiences have shaped you and shape your experience in the world
@@averagesoul8256 nier replicant? Or nier gestalt? (Because im pretty sure the old replicant version was only available in the Japanese dub) the remaster with the English dub won't be available until April. (They're the same game anyways)
I not too sure about 2 of your selections. INSIDE and Limbo are very minimalistic in their story telling and don’t really try to teach you certain things. Their very abstract games so they are design to raise more questions than answers. Maybe I’d argue that INSIDE does teach you, perhaps about the value of life but like I said, both of their stories are abstract, and make the player ponder and focus more on the story, than a message. When the objective should be for a student to learn something from these games.
@@george9057 That depends, both of these games could be studied for years in how to develop a story that can touch people so deeply without a single line of dialogue. The environmental storytelling is just masterfully done. Making a story that could be interpreted in zillions of ways is not an easy task, because the developers always have to be inserting details that are coherent with the game in order to make sure that it's not just a bunch of random things put together and it's impossible to find the final pieces of the puzzle you're trying to solve. A good example of a story that put a lot of random things around trying to become a movie that could be interpreted in several ways and failed horribly is Donnie Darko imo
Inside uses images in order to make you "feel" and, most important thing, it doesn't give you any answer, therefore it stimulates your subconscious in order to get answers that go beyond rationality. It is a true masterpiece, one of the best games I've ever experienced.
My personal honorable mention would be Death Stranding. I know that in terms of important profound moments it falls behind your list and especially to Metal Gear Solid 2, but what I personally liked about DS in particular was its themes on isolation, death, and connection among people, and those themes seem to be becoming more and more relevant in this current age. Not only do we have to deal with the crises and themes addressed by MGS2, Deus Ex, and Bioshock, we also have to deal with the fact that we all are becoming more and more isolated and cut off from each other as time passes on. Sure, once the vaccine starts rolling out in larger numbers people can finally start to intermingle again (safely) but as a whole humanity seems so fractured and incapable of understanding and connecting with each other. I like how Death Stranding emphasizes these themes of connections, and in an ever increasingly online world we’re living in those themes are going to be more and more important. Definitely not as profound as the games you listed Max, but a hopefully worthy honorable mention
the pandemic doesn't end with vaccination, it starts with it. Once the governments realize that they can make people take vaccinations that aren't really tested at all, they can do EVERYTHING with them.
I would rather watch or read a thousand things about death stranding than actually play it. I was hyped for that game, but while actually plaing it I noticed that I had no fun and that my time would be better spend doing other things. Neverless, I am still very interested in it's story. BUT: The main turn off for me was the like system. Other people feel connected when they see that their bridge has 10000 likes, but I feel more disconnected, because there are 10000 people that may thought that "someone" did something helpfull, but this exact people are ultimately worthless to me and I am worthless to them as a human beeing, because we do not know each other. I think, that first of all we need to satiate our primal needs like food. But after that come the social needs which (at least for me) are beeing understood and understand others yourself. Connections between humans can be hollow or deep. A like is something really hollow. Sorry for the bad english.
I really liked it more than most people also. It kind of came out too early. This game was made for lockdowns. I liked the gameplay, in a real zoned out way. I don’t always want to be sitting up straight arguing with other players. Its a great time kill TBH.
100% agree, Planescape Torment shaped who i am as a person as i played it at the age of 12. So many questions where asked and any answers gained had to be questioned. Minor Spoilers but, at one point in the game a rich person offers you money to murder you just to see what its like to kill someone without the legal and moral problems to deal with because you are immortal. This is a small unimportent moment in the game but later you learn that every time you die, someone else dies in your place recontextualising the whole senario and when you replay the game, which you will as you will not find all the secrets in one playthough, you have a choice to make get payed to help someone kill a random person, through killing youself, with absolutely no ramifications to the killer or not. And thats is just one small moment.
I've tried playing it before but oldschool CRPG's are extremely tedious, Lots of Times even straight Up annyoing and exhausting to me. Is it worth sitting through gameplay mechanics I don' Like for multiple hours to experience the Story?
@@Zockanumber1 Yes, the gameplay isn't actually tedious, you just probably aren't used to it. Everyone I know who actually had some experience with isometric RPGs would consider this one to be one of the easiest to get into. But it is easily the best history in video game history and to a larger extent than something like MGS, Nier or Silent Hill 2 it actually utilizes mechanics unique to video games to tell that story. The story is also really personal, emotional and it has one of the most original setting ever created. So yeah, it's fuckin worth it. I mean if it's not, then what video games aren't worth it in general.
@@Pacal_II Well Then I'll definetely give it another Shot. Also I'm Not saying the Game is tedious compared to Other titles in its genre. Its Just that I could never get into isometric RPG's in General. But I'm a sucker for great Stories and original settings so it Looks Like I'll have to experience this Game. Thanks for your reply 👍
Will have to give Nier Automata another go, I've tried playing through it several times now but haven't been able to fully feel what it was going for, both plot-wise and in terms of the gameplay. This video has definitely inspired me to persevere and see it through.
I was in the same boat as you a while ago and it’s totally valid to feel that way about the game. I thought Nier was very unsatisfying when I finally decided to power through it and finish. It’s a great story concept but it’s executed and presented poorly which is why I am indifferent about the game overall. SOMA presents a similar story but it was presented in a much more engaging and horrifying way that really makes it one of the more memorable games I’ve ever played because it hooks you immediately. Nier doesn’t get to its “point” until a very significant moment happens halfway through the story. Which personally made me feel like the entire 1st half, as well as a specific character, should’ve just been scrapped as a whole. Idk if you’re at that point in the story yet but once you get there, that’s when it finally gets interesting imo. But it may make you still feel like the game is forgettable by the end simply due to just not being as hooked early on as most other people were who played this game
Nier's presentation made me never want to touch it. It's themes are explored by other games like Soma and Deus Ex, only those games feel a lot more engaging to play and the way the messages and themes are carried are much better IMO.
Nier Automata would make me pause at times for like 10 minutes + because I was in awe at some of the key big moments in it. That final part with Pascal for example... Yeah
@@gibas_3177 i left him. they make it clear mid route b that machines are bound to repeat humanity's flaws over and over forever as part of the endless war, so if he was reset he was bound to have done it again
Jesus christ, I’m at 1:23 and I had to stop. I don’t play video games anymore but starting from a fascination with videogame stories eventually got me into reading psychology and from there on to nietzsche, jung, freud, reich, zizek, lacan etc. I’m pretty much obsessed with psychoanalysis and philosophy nowadays, I usually read books 2-3 hours a day, as soon as I get some time off I usually lay down in bed with a marker and read, and I hated reading 6 years ago. And reading philospohy and psychoanalysis got me into weightlifting , eating healthy and facing my fears in life. Finally I got good self confidence in my life, and I seriously think Psychoanalysis is THE religion for our generation. I have had major problems with depression almost all my life and I recently ended a 3 year old relationship with a girl i loved and yeah, shit sucks, it hurts, and I got alot of anxiety right now, but I know that I will get through it because I’ve been through it before. And even though it hurts just as much as the last time, I’m so much stronger mentally today and much better prepeared. So this is now pretty much MY personal philosophy in life after years of learning about life both in reality and theory. ( (I’m 32 today and I have so much, much more to learn about life yet, and I know it will be alot pain in the future, i still want to try to embrace it because there is always something beautiful at the end of the tunnel that totally changes your life and your perspective again and again and again.) - Intellectual pursuits should be seen as only a hobby. (If you don’t make money from it). - dancing, moving, lifting, painting and listening/making music and crying like a little bitch is therapy for the soul. Its Alchemy. - Truth can only be found in your body and in your feelings. ”Your body has more wisdom than your deepest philosophy.” Because your UNCONSCIOUS is located in your body. Therefore your darkness and your shadow can be seen and felt in your body. - All the pain, shame, guilt, betrayal, anger and sorrow you feel/felt/will feel in your life should be embraced as something that will make you tougher. - You are not static, you are always Becoming. - Laughter and Humour is holy. - Avoid lying. - Live dangerously. Embrace chaos. - Belief in something (even in psychoanalysis) is the death of intelligence. Because it is ALL memes and ideology. - Respect the psyche and it will respect you back. - Question all morality. - Reality is always superior to Internet, video games, smart phone usage etc. etc. - A text message or a phonecall can never be a genuin interaction with someone, only face to face is genuin. - Be extremely aware and careful of where you choose to put your attention. It affects the thoughts you will have in the future. - Anger is one of your best tools in life, it gets shit done.
I have more: 1. Shenmue: A game that incorporates a lot of Asian culture to the point where when I went to Asia, I saw a ton of similarities to what was in the game. 2. Detroit: With the current rise of A.I. it's a story where Robots (A.I.) lived alongside humans. They worked and did the same jobs that humans do. Some robots got into trouble with the law (like humans); some were involved with gangs, etc. those robots had emotions, and those robots did almost EVERYTHING that humans do. It was a good glimpse into what our future could be like if we keep going on with A.I. and if those robots develop Artificial General Intelligence and we keep getting Robots like Ameca.that lives in our reality right now!
Realistically it has no business being anywhere on a modern list, but MASSIVE SHOUTOUT to Missile Command (1980). Absolutely a breakthrough pioneer in designing game mechanics to tell an emotionally impactful story.
You are doing us all a great service Max People like you have inspired me to be prouder of loving video games Loving the stories they tell, the characters, the worlds and the journeys
Man, its so nice to actually find someone thats implementing the vision that I’ve had of videogame psychology since I was a little boy that didn’t understand crap about life. Its gonna sound cheesy, but its an honor to follow and het to to see the work that you put into your videos. And to add to the list, I would have to mention Remember me from Capcom. Very underrated game with an impactful concept of the need to remember things as they were and forget about how they are.
To this day I still can't decide whether my favourite game ever is Silent Hill 1 or 2. I know how you feel Omg almost all my favourite games are in this video. Thanks for mentioning The Talos Principle.
Just one mans opinion: SH 1 was much more compelling minute by minute, but the last 30 minutes of SH2 hit you like an emotional ton of bricks and you’re left just thinking about the whole thing for hours afterwards.
I remember playing it for the first time and not knowing much about it thinking it will be like Call of Duty. But by the end I was fucking blown away. Just thinking about it gives me chills.
That tease of Journey! When i first played Journey and got to the end i had a moment that could only be described as "religious ecstasy" with how it changed my world view, i've played through it multiple times and it's so comforting and wonderful to this day. I think it's short length would also help support it for teaching, as compared to some of the other games which are tens of hours long.
I remember I got to the end of Journey with my partner and we sat down at the summit of the mountain and then they got up and ran around drawing a heart in the sand around me. This moment was absolute magic for me. With no other way of communicating with me they were able to let me know they enjoyed our time together. It was awesome.
Great video. Personally, one of my favorite "profound" games is Life Is Strange. Not only does the story have many things that make it profound, but the gameplay succeeds at conveying meaning in a way not possible through any other medium of storytelling. In college, I actually conducted a social psychology experiment where I recorded people playing the first hour or so of the game. Disregarding the story entirely, the gameplay alone can be used to demonstrate cognitive dissonance, Brehm's free choice paradigm, and self-verification. Things get even deeper if you play the whole game and take the story into account. The game builds upon the previously mentioned base with effort justification and self naratives; it brings up various questions in ethics like personal interests vs greater good, and the story was crafted to be naturalist (I won't give an example to prevent spoilers).
Really happy with the number 1 placement (not gonna spoil it) because I am currently replaying that game. I loved your description of dark souls, and I feel it kind of applies to the number 1 game too. With the high-speed, fun, intense gameplay it would be truly remarkable on its own, yet it also has one of gamings best stories.
Omg so glad you included Soma and The Talos Principle. TTPs puzzles were legitimately challenging but I also found myself trying to seek out every audio recording so I could piece the story together. Both Soma's ending and TTP's entire game stuck with me for LONG after I beat them
Absolute Top Tier List. I really feel like you put a lot of thought into this and that you were able to explain why every game deserves to be on the list.
FFVII was a dive into the socioeconomic structure. We lived in a world that promoted a climb through the corporate ladder with revenue being the ultimate goal. To play as a separatist organization seeking the greater good for mankind at any cost was profound. You see these people’s home lives in the slums. The intricate web of scientists, soldiers, political leaders, community leaders, underlying motivations… Add to that the metaphor of the planet fighting back, the devastation of foreign influence, the disillusionment of a teenager unaware of who he actually is during all of this turmoil…. Definitely the most substantial impact any game has left on me.
That intro alone is why I dig your channel Max. You're using your platform to educate people on their level. I'm one of those kids you mentioned ( well more like a 28 year old man) but I never took interest in psychology until I stumbled upon your videos. The way you explore these themes and concepts really sparked my interest in the subject. It's that same spark of interest I got when listening to Issac Arthur's science and futurism stuff. Just wanted to say keep up the good work, I hope your channel grows and reaches many more people. We could all really benefit from this type of education! 💎
i want to play it, but im curious about something. I heard theres a narrator, is that the only way the story is told? Or is it more organic where u solve puzzles that directly tell the story?
@@AJ-pc9gu The story is told by many means but it's not that organic: there's the narrator (who speaks only during important moments); there's documents to read from terminals; there's some audiologs around the levels of a scientis from the past and comments on the world/puzzles/believes from other characters that have been there before you. I can think of only one part of the game where the puzzles are really bound to the narrative, supporting and enhancing it visually and with gameplay; I think it's the best part of the game, "sadly" everything else of the story is experienced in a passive way.
@@trashboi576 thanks my man. I saw it for 3 pounds so i went for it. Bit of a shame the game isn't more cohesive, but a miracle all the same that it even exists; creating a cerebral game when your the makers of serious sam.
@@AJ-pc9gu best way of telling a story in Talos Principle is dialogues and they’re roots of Road to Gehenna DLC “Must play” game with beautiful philosophy questions and OST
I‘d love to see you make the same list for movies even though that‘d probably be a lot harder considering how long movies been around (or maybe just do your personal 10 favorite profound movies, that‘d be easier)
@Jill Valentine how and why does that even matter? He's talked about games that are almost as old as it, maybe just as old. And it's about the themes contained within that fit what he was talking about. No need to be closed-minded.
@Jill Valentine Yet he clearly asked for recommendations... hmm. Also seems to me like you're a little offended by my recommendation to even comment on it in the first place, yet claim to be neutral. Ok, sure. Genre, age, visual style, or "intricate and fun gameplay" shouldn't matter in this case. He had a Silent Hill game on the list, those aren't exactly the definition of "fun" nor do they have intricate gameplay. And yes, the fact that you're shutting down a recommendation that would fit what he's asking just because YOU assume it's not right makes you kinda closed-minded. There's nothing wrong with just thinking "sure, I'll check that out" before being negative.
@Jill Valentine Wow... you're still going at it. I forgot you existed. Lol The points you mentioned made no sense. Who the fuck cares if the "audience" is different than what was recommended? What matters is if the subject matter of the recommendation fit the themes he was talking about. Holy shit... what you're saying if like completely excluding a foreign film from a topic of discussion just because it's subtitled. Closed-minded ignorance, as simple as that.
This was a great list, Max. I've played a lot of horror games in my day, but I don't think any game has disturbed me as much as DEFCON. The cold and simple visuals, the distant and echoed sound effects, and the plain white text that appears when a city is nuked, informing of how many millions are dead. It all comes together to give the experience of sitting in an underground bunker, safe from the bombs above, as you destroy the world with them. I've never had an experience quite like it. Especially when you figure the game out and get into a 6-way diplomacy match. Good times. Honourable mention to Kairo. What seems to be a simple and surreal walking sim/puzzler unveils itself as you notice recurring themse, culminating in an ending that has you asking some poignant questions.
There’s a Bloom County comic strip where Pac Man is sitting at a bar drinking and saying “man- it seems like all we’re doing is eating and running, eating and running...”
This typo is making me imagine a game where Pac is a guy who pack and fit everything into a bunch of boxes. I don't know why but I find it mildy entertaining to think about.
For me is Shadow of the Colossus. Every now and then I listen to the soundtrack especially the ending, but I gotta say that is an awesome list and a great video. Thank you Max
Also, the Metro games for really pushing misery and despair right in your face while you focus on a small piece of hope. Perhaps not so profound in terms of the lore but in terms of visuals, the creatures, and the environment, they really pack a punch.
Haven't played Nier: Automata, but I think my personal number 1 would be Planescape Torment. Silent Hill 2 and Dark Souls would probably be my number 2 and 3.
Xenogears, without a doubt, belongs on this list. Another game that has inspired decades of introspection/discussion after its release. Max, would love to see your take on this one if you ever have time to dive into it. Keep up the great work!
@@maxderrat Awesome, thanks for responding! Based on your past work, I think you will enjoy it. Resonant Arc did a great summary, with Patrick Holleman, of how all the themes explored in the game tie together (Philosphy/Psychology/Religion/Reference to other literary and film works) in this video: ua-cam.com/video/xX1J9xzCJ98/v-deo.html However, if you want to go spoiler-free on your first playthrough, you probably want to avoid that until after you have completed the game.
Not just Nier Automata, EVERYTHING buly Yoko Taro is profound. The first Nier is a beautiful eligy regarding "the past was horrible - we have to handle the now". Drakengard, while clunky and needing some polish, explores themes such as the fetishization of innocence, which I can't say I've seen in a game before. I'd love to see you tackle his games as a whole someday.
Soma, Talos Principle, Deus Ex all these are on my short list of all time favourite games. Been meaning to get NieR:Automata for a long time, but haven't gotten around to it.
Layers of Fear, Antichamber, What Remains of Edith Finch, and The Witness. Those are a few I personally found quite profound. Anyways, amazing video! Thank you :)
I've always loved and appreciated your videos. I also think you've always done great with the video essays and showing how much more potential games have. I personally try to support people like yourself and help share my own love and value for games. Video games are an Insanely powerful art medium.
I once asked one of my university teachers, in a class about climate change in fiction, if I could write a paper on Anthropocene in Shadow of the colossus He told me that he believed i would write an excellent paper but that jhe could never grade it because academics are absolutely against video games and They unanimously refused to consider video games worthy of academic studies We still have a long way to go Man, and People like You that study video games as genuine material for academic research are my own personal heroes, please never lose faith Man
sadly, it's not just games. the academics community seems to be against anything pop culture or "new". i have friends who wanted to -and could- write (with research and interviewing) about serious social issues showcased in manga or comic books and they were discouraged to, for the same reason. it's either you do it their way or not. either you copy/follow already well-established ideologies or not, god forbid you do something different, something unconventional, something _on your own_ .
Great video. Every game deserved to be there. Might want to make "The Swapper" #11. Moody, atmospheric puzzler exploring existentialism and philosophy of mind.
My picks: Demon's Souls, Alice: Madness Returns, Last of Us 1, Binding of Isaac, Shadow of the Colossus, Dark Souls, Portal 2, Red Dead Redemption 1, Dead Rising 2, Brutal Legend. Really excited for what the next decades games will bring!
@@vincentvega7865 It may not be as profound as some as the others, but I would say it is profound because it takes pop culture and turned it into mythology. I think there is something to be said for that. I doubt many people would say its deep, as it is quite a silly game at times, but its surprisingly got more substance than one may initially think. The character Ophelia is even a reference to Shakespeares Hamlet, which seems unnessary for a purely comical crude game. Theres some neat themes too about fighting for freedom and how the true hero (the roadie) is one who stays out of the spotlight and saves the day not for ego, but to simply restore order. Its also just an awesome tribute to music. Metalheads seem to have a passion like no other. Its difficult to imagine a game like this for pop, rap, or country music, you know?
@@movement2contact It is a very nihilistic game, its not for everyone. Its largely a criticism of blind faith. The plot is about a boy (Isaac) whose mother believes she hears the voice of god instructing her to kill her son. Theres lots of references to the bible and pop culture littered throughout the game. The game has a lot of disturbing and disgusting imagery in it, yet somehow remains cute due to the art style. Its a roguelike and gambling is a heavy aspect of every playthrough, making the player themselves rely on faith, which is often unrewarded, giving the player a sense of futility. A fun indie title paying tribute to the classics of the 80s, while exploring the depths of nihilism and faults of religious thinking. I always find myself returning to it.
I’ll never forget the first time getting to experience silent hill in 1999 at 15 years of age and struggling, scared on the edge of my seat going through that game that weekend and finally making it all the way through to the end and getting one of the better endings where you get to fight Samael, on my first try!!!! It is a game I absolutely love and I still play to this very day via emulation.. (I had all the good black label copies of original PlayStation games and one of my friends lost my CD wallet that had all the CDs in it to the games😢) Silent hill is definitely one of the most profound for me-
The legacy of Kain series could have been here also! At least for me it made question my religious beliefs as a teenager, I grew up in a cult so breaking free of that was definitely influenced by the esoteric, philosophical, existential horror story line of the series. Especially having amazing dialogue and voice actors that reminded me of what Shakespeare could have been like if he would have known Aleister Crowley. And it made vampires cool before they became glittery and harmless. I could go on forever about the series. Soul Reaver 2 was probably my favorite when it comes to the story.
Soul Reaver 1 & 2 and conclusion of Raziel's story in Legacy of Kain Defiance, Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, Final Fantasy X & the main story mode of GTA5.
Allow me to humbly mention Drakengard. There's so much more to that game than meets the eye, especially if you're willing to overlook the mediocre, repetitive gameplay. In lore and even in an abstract, conceptual way, Drakengard is one of a kind. It even uses its own repetitiveness in an interesting way, not too differently from what Far Cry 2 does with the respawning outposts.
@@pippop5828 i have played most of then (didnt play drakengard 2 or the nier replicant remaster yet) and i think not. All the games seems to show the nature of men and conflict while asking different questions about then.
When it comes to academic value and balanced discussions (which I believe is important for an individual's mental health) there's no channel I'd rather watch than yours. I remember when your channel only had a few dozen subscribers/views. I sure spent most of this time as a spectator instead of actively discussing "the most pressing issues of our present" with you and our fellow netizens, which I somehow regret; but I truly admire your evolution, Max! I wish I had your strength in this world of madness and polarization. I know it's been a month since this was released but thank you for making these videos, you wonderful bastard!
ah yes there's so much that goes into a game that's overlooked, the 3D art, the sound effects, the music, animations, coding. Video games are really underestimated.
This list is so great! I was expecting Journey as n°1. Now I want to play Nier Automata! I haven't played Deus Ex and Killer 7 (never heard of that one) before. Although, my number 1 would be Death Stranding by far. This is definitely the most profound game I've played, carrying it with me for months. For the rest I would have a similar list as you, but with The Last of Us and Journey. The Talos Principle in my top 3. This game is philosophy in a video game. I highly recommend it.
When i was in my first years of college i was Playing the Xenosaga games while simultaneously taking a philosophy class and the crossover definitely helped keep me interested. Kept running into concepts in the game we would talk about in class...
Great video. So many amazing games out there. Some examples of other profound games I’d say is Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and The Witness. Lots of subtext going on in both. Nocturne has arguably the greatest intro cinematic of any game I’ve played
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture is another one of those existential gems. I'd compare it a lot to Soma in it's large lack of major gameplay. It's a pretty emotional story, lots of pretty lights (although a bit too bright), a wander-friendly world with lots to find, and some very good music.
haha first or second one? I never played either but I heard that Pathologic 2 has way better gameplay and Pathologic 1, the original project, included more concepts since you could play in multiple perspectives and see how each perspective deciphers what's going on differently.
This is very much personal and not perhaps definitive, but Final Fantasy 7 was one of the most profound games for me. The importance of environmentalism, showcasing government corruption and manipulation, controlling the news, etc, as well as the underlying character narratives about identity (which helped me come to terms with my own identity issues) really makes FF7 one of the best games I've played both from a gameplay perspective and from what it teaches the player about real world/modern day concepts. I know u only give original takes on games but it would be really great to have your opinion on FF7.
Ikr! It's so good that when I experienced it for the first time it out me in such an existential dread for months. Now I've vowed to never go back to the game again lest I suffer the same fate lol!
Great video, Max, glad I got to know you through HBR. Currently replaying the Deus Ex series chronologically and you can see how realistic and close HR's 2027 is. Can't wait to get to the original. I wouldn't say this game's profound, but Tales of the Abyss has a very strong story, stronger than what people give it credit for. It deals with the topics of individuality and the good and bad of (anti-)religion, all very well. If you can dig the gameplay of the series and aren't put off by the presentation, in-game cutscene animation quality and such, it is very worth to check out.
Just wait til you read about the cancelled Deus Ex 3's story. US goes bankrupt by 2027, Hoovervilles return with the onset of mass poverty, etc. If Deus Ex was prophetic and HR being close, I hope to God that DX3's isn't.
Damn I actually Stopped playing Nier Automata during the 2nd playthrough because it got so tedious. Now I wish I would've suffered through it. Your knowledge and Work is greatly appreciated and I really enjoyed the video
I’ve been waiting for this list video for a while haha!! Especially happy to see Bioshock’s inclusion and Spec Ops: The Line’s runner up position recognized in the description. Still hoping for the Lost videos if you decide to do them! I’d LOVE to hear your analyses on them because I’m sure you could find things I even missed!!
Thank you for this video! I just got a PS5 (my first console since the gamecube) and I have a lot to catch up on, and this is already an excellent list. I'm already in love with SOTC since I played it a couple months ago (and binge watching all your videos on it) and I was about to play Soma, so I'm sure everything else on this list is amazing!
In the meantime, I'd recommend you go check out Reinstall Paul's videos on Silent Hill's links to alchemy. If I do my version of it, I would need to get permission from this guy first. Here's a link to it: ua-cam.com/video/N32rQMY9m_0/v-deo.html In regards to religion and dualism, my pre-existing videos tackle those subjects pretty well, I think. Thanks for commenting, broseph.
With how human philosophical ideologies function, anything that has two components being 1. You vs. near all odds, and 2. Overcoming a challenge With how our brains work, in this logic, it could, but logistically that's not the case
I really enjoyed the Longest Journey series, Dreamfall Chapters in particular. It opened me to a lot of new ideas e.g. the character of Abnaxus, a sage 5th-dimensional being that experiences all time concurrently yet is mortal, material.
This was a great video! I love most of the video games here, and just hearing some discussion and promotion on them made me happy. My Top 10 Most Profound Games: 1: Deus Ex 2: Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 3: OFF 4: Shadow of The Colossus 5: Silent Hill 2 6: Grim Fandango 7: Killer7 8: Bioshock 9: Final Fantasy VII 10: Portal Honorable Mentions: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Chrono Trigger Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 Mother 3 Okami Loved this video!
As others have commented, you should try Planescape Torment. Plus I'd add KOTOR 2, Mask of the Betrayer and Pathologic 2 Also unrelated, you might wanna consider starting to upload videos on Odyssee/LBRY
The whole list I was like "I hope Nier Automata shows up somewhere" and then it ended up being number 1. You never dissapoint me, Max. Your channel is truly amazing.
Bloodborne taught me that humanity is not as great or powerful as we seem to be. It is and always will be my favorite video game ever made and is a piece of art that guides my work in writing/ literature to this day.
Max, you do such a good job at this. You have your own voice, which is cool because most other quality gaming channels, just kinda all say the same things.
I find the games by Super Gaint Games to be rather profound. Bastion, Transistor, Pyre and Hades are all games that got me thinking about all the ideas each game raised as well as the underlying struggle against the inevitable that exists in all four games.
I would have put Final Fantasy 9 in there. I usually dislike overly deep existentialism as a topic because its needlessly depressing but FF9 is about the shortness of life and its really quite beautiful.
I believe you should check out Folklore, it was released for PS3 and it managed to show how slowly you have to go through hell while looking for the truth. Among other interesting otherwordly and psychological symbolism.
While it is nowhere on the scale of any of these games in size or complexity in the vein of religion, social responsibilities, the meaning of existence, and the impact of our actions on the environment the game Rain World is a fantastic philosophical survival game that is critically underappreciated. It was recommended once in your discord but never brought up again and I had been considering bring it back to the light for your consideration but couldn't find the right words. It deals heavily with themes of reincarnation, the Ego, artificial intelligence, the pursuit of knowledge and pleasure and the greater impacts of our desire to understand and resolve problems through convenience over the path of enlightenment. I would love to see you review the game at some point because of your wealth of research into theology. I genuinely believe you would enjoy the experience and breaking down of the setting you have to survive in. And its adorable.
Man, SOMA, actually surprised me a lot, I never had a game that got me thinking of my actions like that one .....
Yah and came outta nowhere for me. Started watching a lets play and was like I gotta play this!
The ultimate got ye moment in gaming 😅
Definitely broke me down and had me face my own mortality with a big emphasis on consciousness and reproduction.
I will be checking this one out now.
I think i check it out too!
There are still people looking for and discovering new things in the world of Shadow of The Colossus. It baffles me how the community around this game is still as in love with it as the day it launched (me included).
Yup! I'm part of that community who loves it to death. :D
To play it in the ps2 as a kid, then in the ps3 as a teen and finally in the ps4 as an adult, it certainly has been a journey!!
Edit: a lot of money as well hahaha
@EliT HAHAHAAHAH dude! You have to try it!!!
@@maxderrat it may not be profound necessarily but a good psychological game I'd like you to do a review on or to get your take on would be martha is dead
“Kids, in this class we’re going to cover the entirety of the Metal Gear Solid series, and explore what Kojima-san means when he talked about the war economy, artificial intelligence, memes, and the ramifications of genetically modifying child soldiers.”
"And tomorrow, we will analyze Kojima-san's "Adventures in Babysitting."
The BioShock series is taught me a a lot, it showed me that people in position's of power do not liked to be challenged, they will lable you "the bad guy" and get rid of you by any means necessary, it also shows how easy it is to manipulate people and turn them against you, anyway BioShock is a great series and I'm glad it made your list Max 👍
It's a circus of values!
Get rid of you by any means necessary? That reminds me of the current epidemic we have, cancle culture. And the side that's the biggest perpetrator of cancle culture by far.
@@iHaveTheDocuments anyone who recognizes this is immideately labed an "enemy of the people". Weaponizing the common men of the country you're in charge of never fails.
@@iHaveTheDocumentsExactly. What we call "cancel culture" is another tool for power, to stay unchallenged
Nier taught me it’s all fun and games until you’re Roomba stars flicking red and stars saying cute things like “this cannot continue” and “become as gods”
😂hahaha. For a sec i had to think who Roomba was in N:A! Then i realized ya meant your robot vacuum
Final Boss: SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
Robot sex
@@AgentAlfie OK, I will henceforth refer to it as Drakengard E Ending: Episode 2
@@AgentAlfie episode 1 and and work that yoko taro wanna forget (probably (pls ignore my pfp))
The first Nier also poses many difficult questions, mainly regarding what fulfills people in their lives, and if there is any meaning in trying to find who is right or wrong in conflicts. Really excited to play the remaster/pseudo-remake that's soon to be released!
what remake??
Planescape: Torment
"What can change the nature of a man"
My suggestion.
This and Beyond Good & Evil definitely deserve some mention when discussing profound games.
This should definitely be on the list. One of the greatest stories in gaming.
This guys notion of profundity seems to revolve quite heavily around media featuring cybernetics, AI, and human consciousness. Otherwise I could pull up plenty of profound games that would outclass some of the ones on this list. Planescape: Torment is one of them. Along with 2 games he even showed clips for, Hellblade: Senuas Sacrifice, and Spec Ops: The Line.
Hell, as simple and grotesque as it is, "The Binding of Isaac" is pretty profound
@@Cryogenius333 Man Hellblade really was fantastic, wasn't it? Love that game.
I have started SOMA 2x now, and have to finish it!
Max, a game that really blew my mind recently was Death Stranding. It is incredible and cerebral and made me think for a long time.
Yeah, I really like Death Stranding too! Did three videos on it. :D
@@maxderrat Ohhhh fantastic! I will watch them all as soon as I can :-)
Get through Soma! Its so crazy
I don't know how, but you manage to blow my mind every time I watch a new video.
The Room by Tommy Wiseau: The game
the one from newgrounds?
The Spoons provide a deep and subtle look into the meaning of the existence of the universe.
Truly beyond our comprehension.
_I did naht give her an arrow in the knee; I did nahhhhht. Oh hai Mark_
@@_-Lx-_ “There is no spoon”
Disco Elysium should be near the top as one of the most introspective thought-provoking that really delve into the human psyche addiction loneliness depression no other video game let's you contend with your mind and how your mind and experiences have shaped you and shape your experience in the world
I agree.
@@yungsmug7110 thank you
Yup that game is beautiful and sublime.
So, so looking forward for the new version to come to consoles.
Yup
automata is my favourite game ever made. It changed me on a completely different level
Glory...to mankind...
"Cause we're gonna shout it loud,
Even if our words seem meaningless"
You are going to LOVE replicant then
@@2-dsynctium773 played replicant
@@averagesoul8256 nier replicant? Or nier gestalt? (Because im pretty sure the old replicant version was only available in the Japanese dub) the remaster with the English dub won't be available until April. (They're the same game anyways)
Love the list! But i would have inserted Limbo, INSIDE, Disco Elysium, Bloodborne and Pathologic 2, as these are the games that touched me the most
Yea pathologic is dope as heck
I not too sure about 2 of your selections. INSIDE and Limbo are very minimalistic in their story telling and don’t really try to teach you certain things. Their very abstract games so they are design to raise more questions than answers.
Maybe I’d argue that INSIDE does teach you, perhaps about the value of life but like I said, both of their stories are abstract, and make the player ponder and focus more on the story, than a message. When the objective should be for a student to learn something from these games.
@@george9057 That depends, both of these games could be studied for years in how to develop a story that can touch people so deeply without a single line of dialogue. The environmental storytelling is just masterfully done. Making a story that could be interpreted in zillions of ways is not an easy task, because the developers always have to be inserting details that are coherent with the game in order to make sure that it's not just a bunch of random things put together and it's impossible to find the final pieces of the puzzle you're trying to solve. A good example of a story that put a lot of random things around trying to become a movie that could be interpreted in several ways and failed horribly is Donnie Darko imo
Inside uses images in order to make you "feel" and, most important thing, it doesn't give you any answer, therefore it stimulates your subconscious in order to get answers that go beyond rationality. It is a true masterpiece, one of the best games I've ever experienced.
My personal honorable mention would be Death Stranding. I know that in terms of important profound moments it falls behind your list and especially to Metal Gear Solid 2, but what I personally liked about DS in particular was its themes on isolation, death, and connection among people, and those themes seem to be becoming more and more relevant in this current age.
Not only do we have to deal with the crises and themes addressed by MGS2, Deus Ex, and Bioshock, we also have to deal with the fact that we all are becoming more and more isolated and cut off from each other as time passes on. Sure, once the vaccine starts rolling out in larger numbers people can finally start to intermingle again (safely) but as a whole humanity seems so fractured and incapable of understanding and connecting with each other.
I like how Death Stranding emphasizes these themes of connections, and in an ever increasingly online world we’re living in those themes are going to be more and more important.
Definitely not as profound as the games you listed Max, but a hopefully worthy honorable mention
Hey, I remember you from Dark Souls Amino
the pandemic doesn't end with vaccination, it starts with it. Once the governments realize that they can make people take vaccinations that aren't really tested at all, they can do EVERYTHING with them.
I would rather watch or read a thousand things about death stranding than actually play it. I was hyped for that game, but while actually plaing it I noticed that I had no fun and that my time would be better spend doing other things. Neverless, I am still very interested in it's story.
BUT: The main turn off for me was the like system. Other people feel connected when they see that their bridge has 10000 likes, but I feel more disconnected, because there are 10000 people that may thought that "someone" did something helpfull, but this exact people are ultimately worthless to me and I am worthless to them as a human beeing, because we do not know each other. I think, that first of all we need to satiate our primal needs like food. But after that come the social needs which (at least for me) are beeing understood and understand others yourself. Connections between humans can be hollow or deep. A like is something really hollow.
Sorry for the bad english.
@@Konamalunu that's my feelings towards gaming in general lately....👴🏻
I really liked it more than most people also. It kind of came out too early. This game was made for lockdowns. I liked the gameplay, in a real zoned out way. I don’t always want to be sitting up straight arguing with other players. Its a great time kill TBH.
Planescape-Torment is THE best media ive ever experienced. The story of that game will be with me forever.
Same. I replay it every other year or so. A game akin to a really, really good book.
100% agree, Planescape Torment shaped who i am as a person as i played it at the age of 12. So many questions where asked and any answers gained had to be questioned. Minor Spoilers but, at one point in the game a rich person offers you money to murder you just to see what its like to kill someone without the legal and moral problems to deal with because you are immortal. This is a small unimportent moment in the game but later you learn that every time you die, someone else dies in your place recontextualising the whole senario and when you replay the game, which you will as you will not find all the secrets in one playthough, you have a choice to make get payed to help someone kill a random person, through killing youself, with absolutely no ramifications to the killer or not. And thats is just one small moment.
I've tried playing it before but oldschool CRPG's are extremely tedious, Lots of Times even straight Up annyoing and exhausting to me. Is it worth sitting through gameplay mechanics I don' Like for multiple hours to experience the Story?
@@Zockanumber1 Yes, the gameplay isn't actually tedious, you just probably aren't used to it. Everyone I know who actually had some experience with isometric RPGs would consider this one to be one of the easiest to get into. But it is easily the best history in video game history and to a larger extent than something like MGS, Nier or Silent Hill 2 it actually utilizes mechanics unique to video games to tell that story. The story is also really personal, emotional and it has one of the most original setting ever created. So yeah, it's fuckin worth it. I mean if it's not, then what video games aren't worth it in general.
@@Pacal_II Well Then I'll definetely give it another Shot. Also I'm Not saying the Game is tedious compared to Other titles in its genre. Its Just that I could never get into isometric RPG's in General. But I'm a sucker for great Stories and original settings so it Looks Like I'll have to experience this Game. Thanks for your reply 👍
Will have to give Nier Automata another go, I've tried playing through it several times now but haven't been able to fully feel what it was going for, both plot-wise and in terms of the gameplay. This video has definitely inspired me to persevere and see it through.
I was in the same boat as you a while ago and it’s totally valid to feel that way about the game. I thought Nier was very unsatisfying when I finally decided to power through it and finish. It’s a great story concept but it’s executed and presented poorly which is why I am indifferent about the game overall. SOMA presents a similar story but it was presented in a much more engaging and horrifying way that really makes it one of the more memorable games I’ve ever played because it hooks you immediately. Nier doesn’t get to its “point” until a very significant moment happens halfway through the story. Which personally made me feel like the entire 1st half, as well as a specific character, should’ve just been scrapped as a whole. Idk if you’re at that point in the story yet but once you get there, that’s when it finally gets interesting imo. But it may make you still feel like the game is forgettable by the end simply due to just not being as hooked early on as most other people were who played this game
Nier's presentation made me never want to touch it. It's themes are explored by other games like Soma and Deus Ex, only those games feel a lot more engaging to play and the way the messages and themes are carried are much better IMO.
tell me u played it now plz
Nier Automata would make me pause at times for like 10 minutes + because I was in awe at some of the key big moments in it. That final part with Pascal for example... Yeah
That destroyed me.
What did you chose. Although it might seem cruel I just left him there
@@gibas_3177 I don't think it was cruel to leave Pascal. Pascal would've gone through the same loop even if you chose to reset.
@@gibas_3177 i left him. they make it clear mid route b that machines are bound to repeat humanity's flaws over and over forever as part of the endless war, so if he was reset he was bound to have done it again
Kids, this is what we mean by a “waifu”, and what the android badonkadonk can do for the glory of mankind.
Jesus christ, I’m at 1:23 and I had to stop. I don’t play video games anymore but starting from a fascination with videogame stories eventually got me into reading psychology and from there on to nietzsche, jung, freud, reich, zizek, lacan etc. I’m pretty much obsessed with psychoanalysis and philosophy nowadays, I usually read books 2-3 hours a day, as soon as I get some time off I usually lay down in bed with a marker and read, and I hated reading 6 years ago. And reading philospohy and psychoanalysis got me into weightlifting , eating healthy and facing my fears in life. Finally I got good self confidence in my life, and I seriously think Psychoanalysis is THE religion for our generation.
I have had major problems with depression almost all my life and I recently ended a 3 year old relationship with a girl i loved and yeah, shit sucks, it hurts, and I got alot of anxiety right now, but I know that I will get through it because I’ve been through it before.
And even though it hurts just as much as the last time, I’m so much stronger mentally today and much better prepeared.
So this is now pretty much MY personal philosophy in life after years of learning about life both in reality and theory. (
(I’m 32 today and I have so much, much more to learn about life yet, and I know it will be alot pain in the future, i still want to try to embrace it because there is always something beautiful at the end of the tunnel that totally changes your life and your perspective again and again and again.)
- Intellectual pursuits should be seen as only a hobby. (If you don’t make money from it).
- dancing, moving, lifting, painting and listening/making music and crying like a little bitch is therapy for the soul. Its Alchemy.
- Truth can only be found in your body and in your feelings. ”Your body has more wisdom than your deepest philosophy.” Because your UNCONSCIOUS is located in your body. Therefore your darkness and your shadow can be seen and felt in your body.
- All the pain, shame, guilt, betrayal, anger and sorrow you feel/felt/will feel in your life should be embraced as something that will make you tougher.
- You are not static, you are always Becoming.
- Laughter and Humour is holy.
- Avoid lying.
- Live dangerously. Embrace chaos.
- Belief in something (even in psychoanalysis) is the death of intelligence. Because it is ALL memes and ideology.
- Respect the psyche and it will respect you back.
- Question all morality.
- Reality is always superior to Internet, video games, smart phone usage etc. etc.
- A text message or a phonecall can never be a genuin interaction with someone, only face to face is genuin.
- Be extremely aware and careful of where you choose to put your attention. It affects the thoughts you will have in the future.
- Anger is one of your best tools in life, it gets shit done.
thanks
wait, why did the video make you stop?
@@benedict6962 just to write the comment, nothing more
I always read the most interesting comments under Max’s videos
It’s sad that jrpgs are so “inaccessible”, because Xenogears should be a must to this list.
Xenogears is to gaming what Evangelion is to anime
I have more:
1. Shenmue: A game that incorporates a lot of Asian culture to the point where when I went to Asia, I saw a ton of similarities to what was in the game.
2. Detroit: With the current rise of A.I. it's a story where Robots (A.I.) lived alongside humans. They worked and did the same jobs that humans do. Some robots got into trouble with the law (like humans); some were involved with gangs, etc. those robots had emotions, and those robots did almost EVERYTHING that humans do. It was a good glimpse into what our future could be like if we keep going on with A.I. and if those robots develop Artificial General Intelligence and we keep getting Robots like Ameca.that lives in our reality right now!
Realistically it has no business being anywhere on a modern list, but MASSIVE SHOUTOUT to Missile Command (1980). Absolutely a breakthrough pioneer in designing game mechanics to tell an emotionally impactful story.
Absolutely love videos like these, this is great for progressing the academic evaluation of games. Thanks for all your great work Max
You are doing us all a great service Max
People like you have inspired me to be prouder of loving video games
Loving the stories they tell, the characters, the worlds and the journeys
Man, its so nice to actually find someone thats implementing the vision that I’ve had of videogame psychology since I was a little boy that didn’t understand crap about life. Its gonna sound cheesy, but its an honor to follow and het to to see the work that you put into your videos. And to add to the list, I would have to mention Remember me from Capcom. Very underrated game with an impactful concept of the need to remember things as they were and forget about how they are.
To this day I still can't decide whether my favourite game ever is Silent Hill 1 or 2. I know how you feel
Omg almost all my favourite games are in this video. Thanks for mentioning The Talos Principle.
Just one mans opinion: SH 1 was much more compelling minute by minute, but the last 30 minutes of SH2 hit you like an emotional ton of bricks and you’re left just thinking about the whole thing for hours afterwards.
I think Spec Ops: The Line also belongs here somewhere.
I've never played a game except Spec Ops that made me feel like an absolute worthless piece of shit in the best way possible
I remember playing it for the first time and not knowing much about it thinking it will be like Call of Duty. But by the end I was fucking blown away. Just thinking about it gives me chills.
The Horror
A game with the goal of making you feel terrible about your choices and never wanting to play it ever again. It's genius.
What Remains of Edith Finch imo deserves a place on this list, because of game's interesting and refreshing take on family relations and death.
That tease of Journey! When i first played Journey and got to the end i had a moment that could only be described as "religious ecstasy" with how it changed my world view, i've played through it multiple times and it's so comforting and wonderful to this day. I think it's short length would also help support it for teaching, as compared to some of the other games which are tens of hours long.
I'm suprised it's not on the list. Definitely more profound experience than e.g. any Souls game.
I remember I got to the end of Journey with my partner and we sat down at the summit of the mountain and then they got up and ran around drawing a heart in the sand around me. This moment was absolute magic for me. With no other way of communicating with me they were able to let me know they enjoyed our time together. It was awesome.
Great video. Planescape-Torment though
Masterpiece
Great video. Personally, one of my favorite "profound" games is Life Is Strange. Not only does the story have many things that make it profound, but the gameplay succeeds at conveying meaning in a way not possible through any other medium of storytelling. In college, I actually conducted a social psychology experiment where I recorded people playing the first hour or so of the game. Disregarding the story entirely, the gameplay alone can be used to demonstrate cognitive dissonance, Brehm's free choice paradigm, and self-verification.
Things get even deeper if you play the whole game and take the story into account. The game builds upon the previously mentioned base with effort justification and self naratives; it brings up various questions in ethics like personal interests vs greater good, and the story was crafted to be naturalist (I won't give an example to prevent spoilers).
Really happy with the number 1 placement (not gonna spoil it) because I am currently replaying that game.
I loved your description of dark souls, and I feel it kind of applies to the number 1 game too. With the high-speed, fun, intense gameplay it would be truly remarkable on its own, yet it also has one of gamings best stories.
Omg so glad you included Soma and The Talos Principle. TTPs puzzles were legitimately challenging but I also found myself trying to seek out every audio recording so I could piece the story together. Both Soma's ending and TTP's entire game stuck with me for LONG after I beat them
Absolute Top Tier List. I really feel like you put a lot of thought into this and that you were able to explain why every game deserves to be on the list.
FFVII was a dive into the socioeconomic structure. We lived in a world that promoted a climb through the corporate ladder with revenue being the ultimate goal.
To play as a separatist organization seeking the greater good for mankind at any cost was profound. You see these people’s home lives in the slums. The intricate web of scientists, soldiers, political leaders, community leaders, underlying motivations… Add to that the metaphor of the planet fighting back, the devastation of foreign influence, the disillusionment of a teenager unaware of who he actually is during all of this turmoil….
Definitely the most substantial impact any game has left on me.
That intro alone is why I dig your channel Max. You're using your platform to educate people on their level.
I'm one of those kids you mentioned ( well more like a 28 year old man) but I never took interest in psychology until I stumbled upon your videos.
The way you explore these themes and concepts really sparked my interest in the subject. It's that same spark of interest I got when listening to Issac Arthur's science and futurism stuff.
Just wanted to say keep up the good work, I hope your channel grows and reaches many more people. We could all really benefit from this type of education! 💎
Talo's Princible is amazing. Should be a must play for every academics.
i want to play it, but im curious about something. I heard theres a narrator, is that the only way the story is told? Or is it more organic where u solve puzzles that directly tell the story?
@@AJ-pc9gu The story is told by many means but it's not that organic: there's the narrator (who speaks only during important moments); there's documents to read from terminals; there's some audiologs around the levels of a scientis from the past and comments on the world/puzzles/believes from other characters that have been there before you.
I can think of only one part of the game where the puzzles are really bound to the narrative, supporting and enhancing it visually and with gameplay; I think it's the best part of the game, "sadly" everything else of the story is experienced in a passive way.
@@trashboi576 thanks my man. I saw it for 3 pounds so i went for it. Bit of a shame the game isn't more cohesive, but a miracle all the same that it even exists; creating a cerebral game when your the makers of serious sam.
@@AJ-pc9gu best way of telling a story in Talos Principle is dialogues and they’re roots of Road to Gehenna DLC
“Must play” game with beautiful philosophy questions and OST
Ugh...F that game lol
You’re content is fantastic my dude.
YOU'RE FANTASTIC.
@@maxderrat You're breathtaking!
I‘d love to see you make the same list for movies even though that‘d probably be a lot harder considering how long movies been around (or maybe just do your personal 10 favorite profound movies, that‘d be easier)
I'd recommend checking out Xenogears. That games story focuses heavily on philosophy and religion.
@Jill Valentine Huh? What does that even mean? I'm sure if someone recommends something that might fit the topic, he would check it out.
@Jill Valentine how and why does that even matter? He's talked about games that are almost as old as it, maybe just as old. And it's about the themes contained within that fit what he was talking about.
No need to be closed-minded.
@Jill Valentine Yet he clearly asked for recommendations... hmm. Also seems to me like you're a little offended by my recommendation to even comment on it in the first place, yet claim to be neutral. Ok, sure.
Genre, age, visual style, or "intricate and fun gameplay" shouldn't matter in this case. He had a Silent Hill game on the list, those aren't exactly the definition of "fun" nor do they have intricate gameplay.
And yes, the fact that you're shutting down a recommendation that would fit what he's asking just because YOU assume it's not right makes you kinda closed-minded. There's nothing wrong with just thinking "sure, I'll check that out" before being negative.
@Jill Valentine Nope. Just don't care to interact with an ignorant dumbass anymore.
@Jill Valentine Wow... you're still going at it. I forgot you existed. Lol
The points you mentioned made no sense. Who the fuck cares if the "audience" is different than what was recommended? What matters is if the subject matter of the recommendation fit the themes he was talking about. Holy shit... what you're saying if like completely excluding a foreign film from a topic of discussion just because it's subtitled. Closed-minded ignorance, as simple as that.
This was a great list, Max.
I've played a lot of horror games in my day, but I don't think any game has disturbed me as much as DEFCON.
The cold and simple visuals, the distant and echoed sound effects, and the plain white text that appears when a city is nuked, informing of how many millions are dead. It all comes together to give the experience of sitting in an underground bunker, safe from the bombs above, as you destroy the world with them. I've never had an experience quite like it.
Especially when you figure the game out and get into a 6-way diplomacy match. Good times.
Honourable mention to Kairo. What seems to be a simple and surreal walking sim/puzzler unveils itself as you notice recurring themse, culminating in an ending that has you asking some poignant questions.
Yeah, but in terms of exposing life truths in the most brutal manner, packman still takes the cake.
There’s a Bloom County comic strip where Pac Man is sitting at a bar drinking and saying “man- it seems like all we’re doing is eating and running, eating and running...”
This typo is making me imagine a game where Pac is a guy who pack and fit everything into a bunch of boxes.
I don't know why but I find it mildy entertaining to think about.
As soon as I started watching I was like: "I wonder where NieR: Automata is going to rank". I was not disappointed.
For me is Shadow of the Colossus.
Every now and then I listen to the soundtrack especially the ending, but I gotta say that is an awesome list and a great video. Thank you Max
Super pleased to see SOMA in here, absolute hidden gem of a game
Also, the Metro games for really pushing misery and despair right in your face while you focus on a small piece of hope. Perhaps not so profound in terms of the lore but in terms of visuals, the creatures, and the environment, they really pack a punch.
They're based on books though... so kinda cheating to count here. The author is on russian federal wanted list also))) Which is a compliment.
Parents: Video Games teach you nothing!
This video: You were saying?
As they're on the couch flicking through cable tv.
Games like FIFA and Destiny make the argument of “Games are a waste of time.”
Damn max, back at it again with an amazing video!
Haven't played Nier: Automata, but I think my personal number 1 would be Planescape Torment.
Silent Hill 2 and Dark Souls would probably be my number 2 and 3.
You should definitely play it, it will surprise you.
You have to Play Nier Automata. And don’t stop after finishing route a. The best comes after
Xenogears, without a doubt, belongs on this list. Another game that has inspired decades of introspection/discussion after its release. Max, would love to see your take on this one if you ever have time to dive into it. Keep up the great work!
I recently downloaded it to my PS Vita. :D As soon as I'm done getting through Persona, I'm going to start playing that.
@@maxderrat Awesome, thanks for responding! Based on your past work, I think you will enjoy it. Resonant Arc did a great summary, with Patrick Holleman, of how all the themes explored in the game tie together (Philosphy/Psychology/Religion/Reference to other literary and film works) in this video: ua-cam.com/video/xX1J9xzCJ98/v-deo.html However, if you want to go spoiler-free on your first playthrough, you probably want to avoid that until after you have completed the game.
Not just Nier Automata, EVERYTHING buly Yoko Taro is profound. The first Nier is a beautiful eligy regarding "the past was horrible - we have to handle the now". Drakengard, while clunky and needing some polish, explores themes such as the fetishization of innocence, which I can't say I've seen in a game before. I'd love to see you tackle his games as a whole someday.
Soma, Talos Principle, Deus Ex all these are on my short list of all time favourite games. Been meaning to get NieR:Automata for a long time, but haven't gotten around to it.
You’re in for something good if you’re getting automata
Seeing Nier Automata on the first spot really put a smile on my face. Yoko Taro is a genius.
I agree completely, not only is Nier one of my favorite games of all time, but it has also made me think more then any other game
Layers of Fear, Antichamber, What Remains of Edith Finch, and The Witness.
Those are a few I personally found quite profound.
Anyways, amazing video! Thank you :)
A Max video! My crap day just got brighter! Thanks Max!
Your comment just made my day brighter! Thank you.
I've always loved and appreciated your videos. I also think you've always done great with the video essays and showing how much more potential games have. I personally try to support people like yourself and help share my own love and value for games. Video games are an Insanely powerful art medium.
I once asked one of my university teachers, in a class about climate change in fiction, if I could write a paper on Anthropocene in Shadow of the colossus
He told me that he believed i would write an excellent paper but that jhe could never grade it because academics are absolutely against video games and They unanimously refused to consider video games worthy of academic studies
We still have a long way to go Man, and People like You that study video games as genuine material for academic research are my own personal heroes, please never lose faith Man
sadly, it's not just games. the academics community seems to be against anything pop culture or "new". i have friends who wanted to -and could- write (with research and interviewing) about serious social issues showcased in manga or comic books and they were discouraged to, for the same reason. it's either you do it their way or not. either you copy/follow already well-established ideologies or not, god forbid you do something different, something unconventional, something _on your own_ .
Great video. Every game deserved to be there. Might want to make "The Swapper" #11. Moody, atmospheric puzzler exploring existentialism and philosophy of mind.
My picks: Demon's Souls, Alice: Madness Returns, Last of Us 1, Binding of Isaac, Shadow of the Colossus, Dark Souls, Portal 2, Red Dead Redemption 1, Dead Rising 2, Brutal Legend. Really excited for what the next decades games will bring!
Holy shit brütal legend? :D i should really finish it some time because now i am curious why you would say it is profound.
What's with that Binding of Isaac thing... 🤔 I've had it on 'ignore' on Steam for years now... 🙄
@@vincentvega7865 It may not be as profound as some as the others, but I would say it is profound because it takes pop culture and turned it into mythology. I think there is something to be said for that. I doubt many people would say its deep, as it is quite a silly game at times, but its surprisingly got more substance than one may initially think. The character Ophelia is even a reference to Shakespeares Hamlet, which seems unnessary for a purely comical crude game. Theres some neat themes too about fighting for freedom and how the true hero (the roadie) is one who stays out of the spotlight and saves the day not for ego, but to simply restore order. Its also just an awesome tribute to music. Metalheads seem to have a passion like no other. Its difficult to imagine a game like this for pop, rap, or country music, you know?
@@movement2contact It is a very nihilistic game, its not for everyone. Its largely a criticism of blind faith. The plot is about a boy (Isaac) whose mother believes she hears the voice of god instructing her to kill her son. Theres lots of references to the bible and pop culture littered throughout the game. The game has a lot of disturbing and disgusting imagery in it, yet somehow remains cute due to the art style. Its a roguelike and gambling is a heavy aspect of every playthrough, making the player themselves rely on faith, which is often unrewarded, giving the player a sense of futility. A fun indie title paying tribute to the classics of the 80s, while exploring the depths of nihilism and faults of religious thinking. I always find myself returning to it.
I’ll never forget the first time getting to experience silent hill in 1999 at 15 years of age and struggling, scared on the edge of my seat going through that game that weekend and finally making it all the way through to the end and getting one of the better endings where you get to fight Samael, on my first try!!!!
It is a game I absolutely love and I still play to this very day via emulation.. (I had all the good black label copies of original PlayStation games and one of my friends lost my CD wallet that had all the CDs in it to the games😢)
Silent hill is definitely one of the most profound for me-
The legacy of Kain series could have been here also! At least for me it made question my religious beliefs as a teenager, I grew up in a cult so breaking free of that was definitely influenced by the esoteric, philosophical, existential horror story line of the series. Especially having amazing dialogue and voice actors that reminded me of what Shakespeare could have been like if he would have known Aleister Crowley. And it made vampires cool before they became glittery and harmless. I could go on forever about the series. Soul Reaver 2 was probably my favorite when it comes to the story.
Deffo agree with you.
Soul Reaver 1 & 2 and conclusion of Raziel's story in Legacy of Kain Defiance, Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, Final Fantasy X & the main story mode of GTA5.
Allow me to humbly mention Drakengard. There's so much more to that game than meets the eye, especially if you're willing to overlook the mediocre, repetitive gameplay. In lore and even in an abstract, conceptual way, Drakengard is one of a kind. It even uses its own repetitiveness in an interesting way, not too differently from what Far Cry 2 does with the respawning outposts.
would you say that nier: automata was the culmination of the Drakengard series? or do they have nothing in common?
@@pippop5828 I haven't played Nier Automata yet, so I don't know how much they're related, actually. I plan on playing it soon, though.
@@pippop5828 i have played most of then (didnt play drakengard 2 or the nier replicant remaster yet) and i think not. All the games seems to show the nature of men and conflict while asking different questions about then.
When it comes to academic value and balanced discussions (which I believe is important for an individual's mental health) there's no channel I'd rather watch than yours.
I remember when your channel only had a few dozen subscribers/views. I sure spent most of this time as a spectator instead of actively discussing "the most pressing issues of our present" with you and our fellow netizens, which I somehow regret; but I truly admire your evolution, Max! I wish I had your strength in this world of madness and polarization. I know it's been a month since this was released but thank you for making these videos, you wonderful bastard!
ah yes there's so much that goes into a game that's overlooked, the 3D art, the sound effects, the music, animations, coding. Video games are really underestimated.
This list is so great!
I was expecting Journey as n°1. Now I want to play Nier Automata! I haven't played Deus Ex and Killer 7 (never heard of that one) before.
Although, my number 1 would be Death Stranding by far. This is definitely the most profound game I've played, carrying it with me for months. For the rest I would have a similar list as you, but with The Last of Us and Journey. The Talos Principle in my top 3. This game is philosophy in a video game. I highly recommend it.
Love how Spec Ops The Line hasn't been forgotten yet.
masterpiece!
Discovered you a few weeks ago, love your content. Keep it up!
When i was in my first years of college i was Playing the Xenosaga games while simultaneously taking a philosophy class and the crossover definitely helped keep me interested. Kept running into concepts in the game we would talk about in class...
Great video. So many amazing games out there.
Some examples of other profound games I’d say is Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and The Witness. Lots of subtext going on in both. Nocturne has arguably the greatest intro cinematic of any game I’ve played
I have had many difficulties understanding others and myself, through games, I feel I've unlocked my empathy.
And difficulty understanding when to use the correct punctuation apparently
That's really sad
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture is another one of those existential gems. I'd compare it a lot to Soma in it's large lack of major gameplay. It's a pretty emotional story, lots of pretty lights (although a bit too bright), a wander-friendly world with lots to find, and some very good music.
We need a part 2...Derrat ,my friend, have you heard about the word of lord? : XENOGEARS?
Mine always froze halfway into the second disc🤦♂️.
This is great. I would also add Star Wars KOTOR 2, in particular the character Kreia. There’s already UA-cam channels about it.
Definitely agree on Automata, although the original NieR would probably come close as well.
I belive that, for the first time in my many years as a gamer never have watched a top ten, that I 100% agree, kudos to you good sir, exelent video.
I can’t stop thinking about "Pathologic" especially during this covid time. Try it you wont regret it
haha first or second one? I never played either but I heard that Pathologic 2 has way better gameplay and Pathologic 1, the original project, included more concepts since you could play in multiple perspectives and see how each perspective deciphers what's going on differently.
This is very much personal and not perhaps definitive, but Final Fantasy 7 was one of the most profound games for me. The importance of environmentalism, showcasing government corruption and manipulation, controlling the news, etc, as well as the underlying character narratives about identity (which helped me come to terms with my own identity issues) really makes FF7 one of the best games I've played both from a gameplay perspective and from what it teaches the player about real world/modern day concepts.
I know u only give original takes on games but it would be really great to have your opinion on FF7.
Soma was an incredible game.
Ikr! It's so good that when I experienced it for the first time it out me in such an existential dread for months. Now I've vowed to never go back to the game again lest I suffer the same fate lol!
Same for me x)
Great video, Max, glad I got to know you through HBR. Currently replaying the Deus Ex series chronologically and you can see how realistic and close HR's 2027 is. Can't wait to get to the original.
I wouldn't say this game's profound, but Tales of the Abyss has a very strong story, stronger than what people give it credit for. It deals with the topics of individuality and the good and bad of (anti-)religion, all very well. If you can dig the gameplay of the series and aren't put off by the presentation, in-game cutscene animation quality and such, it is very worth to check out.
Just wait til you read about the cancelled Deus Ex 3's story. US goes bankrupt by 2027, Hoovervilles return with the onset of mass poverty, etc. If Deus Ex was prophetic and HR being close, I hope to God that DX3's isn't.
Damn I actually Stopped playing Nier Automata during the 2nd playthrough because it got so tedious. Now I wish I would've suffered through it.
Your knowledge and Work is greatly appreciated and I really enjoyed the video
I actually enjoyed the second playthrough, you're almost there tough, once you get past the tedious part, the story advances, very much worth it.
The second playthrough should go by pretty quickly considering how strong you are.
It's a shame, you missed out on half of the game.
I’ve been waiting for this list video for a while haha!! Especially happy to see Bioshock’s inclusion and Spec Ops: The Line’s runner up position recognized in the description. Still hoping for the Lost videos if you decide to do them! I’d LOVE to hear your analyses on them because I’m sure you could find things I even missed!!
The Swapper was good and so was The Fall.
The swapper is so underated.
Yeah I loved how the game had a plot which had elements from the battle between Daniel Dennett and David Chalmers.
Thank you for this video! I just got a PS5 (my first console since the gamecube) and I have a lot to catch up on, and this is already an excellent list. I'm already in love with SOTC since I played it a couple months ago (and binge watching all your videos on it) and I was about to play Soma, so I'm sure everything else on this list is amazing!
I'd love to see that Silent Hill video about religion, alchemy, and dualism. Pretty please.
In the meantime, I'd recommend you go check out Reinstall Paul's videos on Silent Hill's links to alchemy. If I do my version of it, I would need to get permission from this guy first. Here's a link to it:
ua-cam.com/video/N32rQMY9m_0/v-deo.html
In regards to religion and dualism, my pre-existing videos tackle those subjects pretty well, I think. Thanks for commenting, broseph.
Yes! New Max video. This week just got better :)
Anyone else think DOOM could be seen as a metaphor for depression?
The only think holding that man from the brink is killing demons, soooo...
With how human philosophical ideologies function, anything that has two components being 1. You vs. near all odds, and 2. Overcoming a challenge
With how our brains work, in this logic, it could, but logistically that's not the case
Eh, maybe it just reminds me of depression because I really like DOOM and it usually helps cure any bad moods.
The only thing depressin' in DOOM is my thumbs into that enemies skull.
I really enjoyed the Longest Journey series, Dreamfall Chapters in particular. It opened me to a lot of new ideas e.g. the character of Abnaxus, a sage 5th-dimensional being that experiences all time concurrently yet is mortal, material.
Good choice. I discovered Dreamfall at the beginning of my university years & it has stayed with me ever since
The Longest journey & Dreamfall: Longest Journey
Man I'd love to hear these names more often, those two games really deserve a remake/remaster.
Never got to finish that game but it was really good
This was a great video! I love most of the video games here, and just hearing some discussion and promotion on them made me happy.
My Top 10 Most Profound Games:
1: Deus Ex
2: Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
3: OFF
4: Shadow of The Colossus
5: Silent Hill 2
6: Grim Fandango
7: Killer7
8: Bioshock
9: Final Fantasy VII
10: Portal
Honorable Mentions:
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Chrono Trigger
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
Mother 3
Okami
Loved this video!
I learned a lot more from these games than I did from my humanities class.
To me, my humanities classes enhanced my enjoyment of these games.
As others have commented, you should try Planescape Torment.
Plus I'd add KOTOR 2, Mask of the Betrayer and Pathologic 2
Also unrelated, you might wanna consider starting to upload videos on Odyssee/LBRY
The whole list I was like "I hope Nier Automata shows up somewhere" and then it ended up being number 1. You never dissapoint me, Max. Your channel is truly amazing.
Bloodborne taught me that humanity is not as great or powerful as we seem to be. It is and always will be my favorite video game ever made and is a piece of art that guides my work in writing/ literature to this day.
Max, you do such a good job at this. You have your own voice, which is cool because most other quality gaming channels, just kinda all say the same things.
I find the games by Super Gaint Games to be rather profound. Bastion, Transistor, Pyre and Hades are all games that got me thinking about all the ideas each game raised as well as the underlying struggle against the inevitable that exists in all four games.
Calling that dark souls or bloodborne or shadow of the colossus is on this before watching
From Software + GenDesign are my favorite studios ❤️
I would have put Final Fantasy 9 in there. I usually dislike overly deep existentialism as a topic because its needlessly depressing but FF9 is about the shortness of life and its really quite beautiful.
I believe you should check out Folklore, it was released for PS3 and it managed to show how slowly you have to go through hell while looking for the truth. Among other interesting otherwordly and psychological symbolism.
While it is nowhere on the scale of any of these games in size or complexity in the vein of religion, social responsibilities, the meaning of existence, and the impact of our actions on the environment the game Rain World is a fantastic philosophical survival game that is critically underappreciated. It was recommended once in your discord but never brought up again and I had been considering bring it back to the light for your consideration but couldn't find the right words. It deals heavily with themes of reincarnation, the Ego, artificial intelligence, the pursuit of knowledge and pleasure and the greater impacts of our desire to understand and resolve problems through convenience over the path of enlightenment. I would love to see you review the game at some point because of your wealth of research into theology. I genuinely believe you would enjoy the experience and breaking down of the setting you have to survive in. And its adorable.