I will. I just need to do the "Top 10 Most Profound Moments" in the "Top 10 Most Profound Moments in Gaming History" list first. Stay tuned. Stay yellow. Something something Carl Jung...
For me, one of the most profound moments was in Fable 2 where you go into an idyllic dream world with your dead sister. You know it's just a dream and you have to leave to continue the game but it's so emotionally hard to leave because this is what your character truly wants but can never have.
SOMAs "coin toss" moment when you realize that you can't transfer yourself into the deep dive body, but only a copy. Hearing yourself from the other room asking why it didn't work like planed was my favorite moment in gaming. It changed my whole view on several related topics like teleportation in Star Trek.
My first time playing through SOMA I just sat there staring at the screen during the ending once you launch the Ark. I felt so so stupid, because Catherine had been spelling it out for Simon and the player from the start. It was always going to be a copy paste, rather than a cut and paste. We can't even call that ending a plot twist, because really, the game just did a beautiful job of making us forget entire conversations between Catherine and Simon about how the AIs work
The fact that they never stop calling it a "coin toss" despite the fact that it never was one; the person going into the copy machine was never going to be the one coming out the other side. But the language everyone keeps using to talk about it really illustrates how and why so many people misunderstood what it would actually do.
Kinda reminds me of the movie the Prestige. I'm not gonna spoil why because you all owe it to yourselves to watch it. Trust me, it's absolutely brilliant and easily one of the best movies of the 2000s
There's a few picks here and there I can't say I agree with, but some of these did make me think. I hadn't even considered that Portal's twist was actually a twist once upon a time for one. I played it by the time this was common knowledge and literally hadn't even considered that it was previously a moment that actually shakes the game up so much. And I really need to get around to Playing NieR Automata sooner than later.
I'd say my favourite profound moment is in Dark Souls, but it isn't the one you mentioned (even though I quite like that one as well). For me, it's a certain realisation: if you found out about Gwynevere being an illusion, and that Gwyndolin has been ruling over a literally god-forsaken city in secret all along, and you proceed to link the fire, you eventually come to the realisation that the Chosen Undead has been manipulated from the get-go into sacrificing himself to uphold the status quo. You learn what "becoming a lord" really means. Prophecies and promises of royalty... You're nothing but fuel for the fire.
To add a little something, in Dark Souls 3 comes the revelation that this "status quo" is being prolonged unnaturally, so if the manipulation was already bad enough, the fact that everything is crumbling down because of that status quo, is even worse. The player is fuel to a fire that should have been extinguished long ago.
This is what pisses me off about from software. If they just did a decent job telling their stories people would realize they're actually great stories but instead, a lot of people don't even know it has a story
- The walk to the observatory in Everybody's Gone to the Rapture - the hard decision made at the end of The Music Machine - The demon's argument for destroying humanity in A Machine for Pigs - Mary's letter reading in Silent Hill 2 - The silence at the end of The Beginner's Guide
Came here for LoK, got what I wanted. I would've chosen the moment Raziel realises his fate at the end of SR2 but the coin toss scene is just as powerful.
Beautiful analysis as always, Max! Personally, I found Bioshock 1 to fall flat for me because after the brilliant "Would you kindly" scene you get your brain fixed and are no longer a slave, yet you still follow instructions from a voice on the radio until the end, only this time it's portrayed positively because... you're following a good person's instructions this time, I guess? It felt like the game wanted to criticize railroading players yet didn't know how to make a game without railroading players
The inclusion of Spec Ops: The Line was a great shout. It was completely unforgettable for me playing what I thought was just a passable shooter and then becoming completely absorbed by the psychology and philosophy of what it was doing towards the end.
For me in Spec Ops: The Line its greatest moment was the fight in the mannequin room against the Heavy. It was the point where the entire plot of the game clicked for me. And it was done with gameplay not a cutscene.
Perhaps what i found most interesting in Spec Ops is when i first played it, i completely immersed myself in Walker's delusion. I figured out pretty early (or relatively anyway) that he was hallucinating, but i didn't take a step back, i doubled down instead. For me, i was playing Walker - and i despised him to the core of my being, but i also felt the need to do as he would. So i doubled down. I shot Conrad, and i shot the rescue team that comes to try and get you out. The unfortunate thing is that i saw what was coming during the white phosphorous scene. "There's always another way", Lugo put it. But i couldn't, i *HAD* to shoot the last shell, there was no way to break the scene, all the way in the back at the trench. Because when i saw the blips on the radar, i knew those were not going to be combatants. It kind of ruined the impact of the scene for me. I did not feel guilt, but i felt set up by the game. There's also an absolutely amazing breakdown of Spec Ops's story where it's actually stated that the opening scene in the helo is a flashback, something that you figure out later, as Walker has a deja vu when you experience the very same scene all over. Notice how the screen fades to black when it transitions from a cutscene, but after that point, it fades to white. It is here that we can speculate (with a lot of good evidence to back that up) Walker is actually dead, and he is now continiously re-living his last moments for eternity until he makes the 'right' decision. That being, shooting yourself in the mirror. Because that's the moment you actually break from the delusion. There's many other things the game does that i think it does so, so well. Particularly just how much i love that the game is actually a pretty 'dumb' third person Gears clone. That you start shooting everything and everyone without regard. The game will constantly berate you for what you're doing, which is why i think it gives so much food for thought. How many other shooter games have you played where the ends always justify the means? You're always doing it for the 'right' reasons, or so you're told, but did you ever take a step back to think about how many fucking lives you took in the process? When Lugo gets lynched by an angry mob, you can't pass the mob without firing into the crowd the game's implying that you should fire into the crowd, but you don't have to: Warning shots alone will suffice. You get a directive and stick to it mindlessly, all for the pursuing of the greater goal that you're said to believe is the right thing to do. The fact that such a thing comes bundled up in an otherwise 'dumb' shooter just makes it all the more powerful as games like these generally just tend to never question the player's actions. There's exceptions here and there, like Dishonored for instance, where the more death you cause, the world gets worse off for it. But even then it never truly takes a step back to allow you to reflect, and you will not be berated for causing more death. That's where Spec Ops really got me. I haven't looked at shooters the same way since.
@@finns99 I loved Spec Ops: the Line, but writers completely missed it with the target audience, their goal was a pretentious message "video game violence bad", and the "always a choice" referred to be turning off the game. Which is ridiculous, they're trying to chastise YOU for the story THEY wrote UNLESS you don't experience a toy you paid for. "you can't pass the mob without firing into the crowd the game's implying that you should fire into the crowd, but you don't have to: Warning shots alone will suffice" There are tons of little moments like this, like civilians jumping line of fire to provoke you shooting them, I remember moving aim away and smirking at the game trying to make a gotcha... it's all irrelevant in the end as Dubai ends up like Mariupol after r%^&*ns anyway but writers being basic they blame CIA for everything (and not, say, Sheikhs). However, the message SOME got was "su1 cid3 is an answer" FFS NO! This is WRONG, so wrong!!! Because the ONLY choice in the game that matters happened to be shooting your player character, this is the worst kind of message to possibly get in a game which actually lets you goddamn surrender to authorities and possibly face an actual tribunal, but gamers with their "new indoctrination theory" (Spec Ops being Mass Effect IN SPA-OUT OF SPACE!) decided that being edgy and shooting yourself is the "right" ending somehow. The game is pretty clear on what was the right choice at the start tho: following your goddamn orders, their mission was to check for survivors... and report back to HQ. But Walker had to play the hero. Him being dead ringer for ShepLoo also has a cool duality of him being a renegade while thinking he's paragon... then AGAIN, Konrad did tons of atrocities before the game even started, it's just that the hero "becomes the dragon" yet at the start, not in the end like in most media (and IIRC, Charlie Sheen REFUSED to take the place of Marlon Brando in the movie, yet I cheered at napalm in titles as the cult is shown as completely uncurable). In the end, the game fallout ended up like Apocalypse Now before: all supposed anti-war moments with cool music were shown too badass as "do not do this cool thing" variety, and pictures like this help recruitment more than they harm it... which is fine. American anti-war media was the biggest drive for signing up since forever lmao. They should make more "war is hell" vidya to get more volunteers to come to Ukraine.
I was already typing a response, assuming my personal favorite would be overlooked, when Braid appeared as your first honorable mention. As someone who's had issues over the years with a distorted perception of reality due to trauma and dissociation, that moment still hits me hard.
I would argue that in Soul Reaver 2 the moment you realise you were the one who killed your brothers and set up the events of the first Soul Reaver was a more profound moment, at least a more personal moment. When you realise that you can't always escape your fate, that things aren't always as they seem and your hatred may blind you to the truth.
I don't think that's really how "profound" is defined in this context. None of that stuff really reaches the player and speaks on matters outside of the game's story. Finding out that you killed your own brothers as humans is just an in-game twist that is significant only to Raziel. But it doesn't go any deeper than that.
By that point in the game though, that revelation isn't exactly profound or especially consequential. As Raziel himself says, he could finally appreciate the irony of Kain's "private joke", and is more than willing to participate in it. Given that he doesn't really hold any regard for his former vampire brethren, and has just discovered that everything he thought he admired about them as Sarafan was a lie, there's no real emotional connection. The ending, however, where, upon killing his former self, Raziel discovers that the soul-devouring entity within the Soul Reaver is and always has been himself, would definitely qualify as profound.
You mentioned first KOTOR and the twist is great, but the most profound moment, for me, was in the second game, the summit with Jedi council. There are three outcomes depending on what happens earlier in the game as you meet the masters: if all of them are dead, Kreia knocks you out telepathically and chastises for being a bad girl, if you have just one of them dead from earlier missions (ignoring master on Korriban whom you find dead), they attack you without words, but if you saved ALL of their sorry asses, they give you a lecture and... try to kill you. THAT was the moment that struck with me... If you are goodie two shoes who goes out of her way to help everyone despite the odds (you're cut off from the force and imprisoned on a mining asteroid at the start, and get no help from Jedi later), they STILL decide to punish you, because you are too influential and MIGHT do something bad and people will follow you. That's it! There can be not a single fault within you and they will always declare you a-thing-that-must-not-be regardless, simply because you are strong. Bullying the dragon in the name of questionable greater good... no wonder Anakin went Sweet F.A.
Absolutely agree with these, and pretty much the order. Just like you, years ago as a teen playing through MGS2, though I had a handful of my own profound moments through gaming, none were ANYTHING like the ending of that game. None stuck with me throughout all these years like it did and actually began my, just like you, existential dread concerning the state of society, especially as the years went on and those fears increasingly came true and at a rapid pace, where we do aren't even seeing the worst it could get. My introduction to you was actually through that first most profound moment video and I'm thankful for it not just because I learned in not alone in my experience with MGS2, but through the rest of your content I learned of Jungian concepts that I desperately needed to learn and apply to myself in my life so ended up buying a few books by Jung and learning a ton (and on a smaller note, never seeing TOOL the same way again!). Anyway, great video. And I love the few times you randomly did light-hearted mocking. Glad to hear you sounding rather positive after seeing the video about you feeling burn out.
Hey Max, I really appreciate the content you’ve been producing over the last couple years, especially your video analysis’/essays. Would you consider covering Disco Elysium anytime soon? It’s one of my all time favorites and has a plethora of philosophical merit to offer that would make for an amazing video!
Excellent as always, Max :-) 'Would You Kindly' blew my mind when I first played Bioshock - what a masterpiece! Am extremely excited for Elden Ring & look forward to your deep-dive Lore videos after I finish the game myself.....have fun!
Lovely and great video Max, as always. One of the recent games I played and had a profound moment for me was Hades. There is a place where you will see Sysuphis and his stone. At this moment I realized all gamers are actually Sysuphis that goes again and again in these painful and hard stages of Hades, just to die and start over again. You might argue that Zagreus would eventually escape, but the gamer doesn't. Once he or she finishes the game (delivers the stone at the top of mountain) they would start another game (roll stone downwards) to enjoy playing again. To put in Camus's words "One must imagine Sysuphis happy." All gamers are Sysuphises who enjoys playing (rolling the ball upward) so it would fall down and roll it up again.
For me the profound moment that stuck with me was the final assault on Conrad base from mentioned here Spec Ops The Line. When the "hero" is assaulted by white phosphorus grenade - Willy Pete- he starts hallucinating again - Conrad greets him saying "Welcome to hell Walker. We've been waiting for you." and burning figures start assaulting Walker. Imo this moment stands out for 3 reasons: semantics, implications and delivery. Semantics- Conrad quite firmly says"waiting"and that implies certainty. Since Colonel is fragment of fractured Walker's mind, it means that at some level Walker himself knows what's waiting for him for crimes he commited. And yet Walker keeps going forward. Those are implications - people won't stop until their"goal" ( whatever this might be) is completed. Often even when they know how harmful their actions will be in the long run. When it comes to presentation, that's also the main problem I have with MGS2. The Line overall takes itself rather seriously and both graphics and VO performance support it. Conrad voice is serious, firm, scorning and yet you can hear a bit od irony under it. For me, MGS2 was overall goofy as hell, with it's characters taken straight from G.I Joe villains rejects, only final codec had some deeper meaning. Because of that, I never saw MGS 2 as a profound piece od art, rather a dumpster fire of Kojima's work that someone smarter and wiser than him tried to save by adding to it really meaningful observations about life and society.
But the goal is defeating Konrad's crazy cult of a unit that went rogue in harsh conditions... the story is from Apocalypse now, except your mission was "confirm survivors and report to HQ". REST was needless and more harmful in the long run heroics... With how much Walker goes insane, people miss the fact that Konrad was not a good guy, and if anything, you're just continuing paving the road to hell with your good intentions. MGS2 is just neat, Spec Ops is a take that to Mass Effect and Call of Duty, while Metal Gear Solid 2 is, obviously, a call out to MGS 1 players. Different genres, pal. Deconstruction of spy movie vs action flick.
I've never had the pleasure to play Bioshock for a mutitude of reasons so I went and show some recap of the all game, and when Jack got to Rupture and just started blindly following everything Atlas told him I said "This guy is so stupid why would you just do what he says and not even questions it" when we get that "Would you kindly?" reveal I understood that I was the stupid one. Till this day, is the best twist in any game I've ever seen, just brilliant.
I didn't even ask that question. I just thought, this video game, I do what it says so i can progress. The game making a play on that fact by making the protagonist also have a reason to blindly do what he's told was so cool. Especially because Andrew Ryan fucking rules and he wanted to go out on his own terms
For me my favorite profound gaming moment has to be the ending from Assassins Creed 2 when the Isu Minerva looks directly at the camera and reveals her whole monologue about mankind’s extinction wasn’t even towards Ezio the main character, but to Desmond his decendant from 500 years after
@@Windraesa well by definition itself it is a great state of intensity or revealing a great knowledge of something much like Max’s og video of MG2 so I think I’m partially right lol
Ezio Trilogy was FULL of moments like this, and I loved the part in (Revelations IIRC) where Ezio... gets it. That he's not the only one experiencing these things and some messages are not for him. Shivers!.. then they ruined it all with Lucy becoming a higher-profile actress and they put her character on a bus in worst way possible because devs. didn't want to pay Kristen Bell higher salary or deal with her schedule. Dx I didn't get back to AC until Origins and THAT was great, but mostly in final DLC (Curse of the Pharaohs) and the optional tombs that, again, had messages for Layla, not Bayek... still won't forgive sexist Ubisoft executives forcing developers to remake 75% of the game because they didn't want the hero (which was Amunet ever since AC2 talked about her, not her husband) to have cooties. I wish more games had plots like MGS2, Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect... And I see a lot of people lobbying to remove modern day from AC, which would destroy the main charm... it would make the games lose the sci-fi elements that were already going down in favor of fantasy recently. I agree with Mr. Raxicorniopholus that the main value in MGS is the fourth-wall breaking mind-screw stuff, and not the philosophy. In that, Patriots and the cryptic codec convos are very similar to when you find messages for modern era in AC2 (remember searching for glyphs and hearing CIA and Manhattan project stuff? You get that in both medieval Italy and on Big Shell), and also Reaper/Prothean stuff in ME.
Max' take on MGS2 most profound moment in gaming history is still one of my favorite videos on youtube. It scares me every time i think of it, little did i know back when it was released how important a videogame could be.
The Ending E in Nier: Automata, the whole sequence from the moment you get "the [E]nd of Yorha" on screen to when you go back to the main title, is still the most profund moment I've ever had in games. At First it was because of the whole helping others throught deleting your save data, knowing the others did the same for you, without getting any rewords for you sacrifice only the notion that you helped someone getting through something extremely difficult, was just amazing, it was a great way to hammer home the ideia of the game. But then when I started thinking about the whole sequence I noticed something, all of the struggle to beat the credits, getting taunted by those questions was the way of the game putting you the player in the shoes of the caracters of the game. Althought it was near impossible beat those credits (BUSSINESS DIVISION flashbacks), even thought you're stuck in this spiral of dying and comming back over and over, if you preservere you're rewarded for that, and that's what happens to the characters (not all of them of course). When I realised this, that sequence was elevated for at least 157 levels above anything I've seen in gamming. We can control the carachters in a game, make tought decisions (kill, spare, stuff like that) and immerse ourselves in them but I've never seen a game putting you in the place of the carachters that you've only been controlling like that, it's just too good, too perfect, and that's why Ending E of Nier:Automata is the most profund momment in my gaming history.
Honestly, the entire sequence is a life changing experience. From what basically amounts to "no, there SHOULD be a good ending!" to the realization that it's the game creators preventing one from occurring, and you have to literally defeat them to achieve one. The taunting every time you fail, slowly turning into messages from other players cheering you on that fill more and more of the screen. The feeling of triumph when you actually get other players joining to to aide you, only to feel terrible when you get hit and see a message that their data has been deleted. Getting to the end and realizing they came to help fully aware that their data would get deleted in the process, and that you would also (hopefully) gladly make the same sacrifice to help others. What starts as an "escape the game" type of scenario gradually turns into a stronger and stronger message about how we're all connected.
Philosophy is such an under appreciated study. Being in my mid 30’s, philosophical questions become much more prevalent. Thanks to games becoming an artistic medium to ask philosophical questions, they have helped me in my life’s journey. I have several friends now asking these questions too. I direct people to Max’s video and the games he suggests. These videos are more than just a conversation piece
Games are toys for kids, and sometimes, very rarely, some games have some interesting content, not much, just a little, this is not an intellectual medium in reality, shame, you want intellectual, read books and don't play games.
I want to hear your take on Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker. SO. BAD. Also, I love the shoutout to Ash Lake in DS1. That moment has stuck with me heavily for years.
MGS2 is mind bogglingly profound in its entirety. Not even just the ending, the entire game and advertising for it just flipped everything on its head. The hype was at a fever pitch after the immensely successfully MGS, and I can't believe how daring Kojima was to disregard any sense of hype or expectation to deliver what is, in my opinion, still the most fascinating and profound game to date. I know some people downplay it to an extent because it wasn't the first medium to put forth these ideas, but to do so as an interactive experience and make the player feel personally confronted by those ideas just puts it on a whole other level. The Patriot AI in MGS2 is utterly terrifying because of the realism of what it describes...if it didn't shake you in 2001 it will now.
When I was in college I wrote a presentation on why I think dayz is one of the best social experiments and markers of what humans will do in a similar environment. The struggle to get food weapons etc, really adds a level of importance on your own life in the game. I think that would be a great topic for a channel like yours to cover.
I'd add the white phosphorus scene in Spec Ops The Line, the beginning of Route C in Nier Automata, and "You gave me a name when I was a number" in Tales of Berseria.
A profound game I played recently was Darq. At the end, the main character goes through a white hole with a light and you hear baby cries. People assume the main character is being born or dying finally. Then the dlcs seem to imply something else.
Honestly after thinking more and more about it I have decided that While not as iconic and not as meta to the player, the nuclear launch scene in the first Modern Warfare is a more powerful anti-war message than the white phosphorus scene in Spec Ops. The storytelling in that game is very underrated and too overshadowed by the No Russians scene in Modern Warfare 2.
Ending E in Nier Automata. The only time I’ve ever had to stop, put down the controller, say “wow” out loud and deeply contemplate the game I had just experienced. I mean that game had been consistently blowing my mind with existential revelations the whole playthrough. But that end…
Excellent choices for profound moments. Dark Souls 3 also did the whole 3rd option thing that was in Legacy of Kain, but Kain did it first. Super excited for Elden Ring personally!
Undertale has many, MANY profound moments, but the one that hit me the most was when (in pacifist run) reaching the final town that's all-gray, and the song "Undertale" plays while you ascend. The monsters, instead of fighting you, tell you what happened to Asgore, and your role in all of this. "You're going to set us free..." 😭
It’s great to see KoTOR as an honorable mention here, Max. Wasn’t expecting Portal to be here. Mainly tried to play Portal 2 for completion and shenanigans and funny hijinks with a friend who liked puzzles. Also, the lore of Doug Ratman is just eerie and dark. I think Valve and writers Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw (who co-wrote the story and scenario for Half-Life 2 Episode 1 and 2 alongside Laidlaw) Jay Pinkerton did an excellent job creating a dirty lab mood and environment as well as fleshing out the mysteriousness of Ratman. Cave Johnson was cool too because he was voiced by J. Jonah Jameson from the Raimi Spiderman trilogy (JK Simmons)
Awesome! Love your vids Max. Have you played Senua? I’m manic depressive bi-polar and hear voices sometimes also. It’s pretty good about the paranoia you feel and the fact that sometimes you feel like everything g is destined and set up for you.
Honestly, who didn't see the last of us's "twist" coming from the beginning of the game. As soon as the central quest started, I realized that this time Joe wouldnt let his "daughter" die. This means that the culmination would necessarily have a hard choice. Given that it would be too simple for the game to be "get her there and everything is solved" I thought the reveal was cheap and predictable and that Joel's choice was the only one that left. It was not the zombies that took his daughter but humans and he wont tolerate it again. This is a common trope in a lot of zombie media, that people are worse than zombies.
My bias is towards JRPGs so I was expecting / hoping to see death of Aerith, Fei is Id, FF8 amnesia, Tidus is a dream, Vivi’s death (it was on the list, right?), etc. Keep up the good work!
While I wouldn’t say it’s a better moment, I think the nuclear disarmament ending in Metal Gear Solid V matches Automata’s Ending E. While you don’t have to sacrifice something valuable (a nuclear bomb is only beneficial if you want to defend your base), the main difference is that you need to cooperate with other players. If the number of bombs in a platoform isn’t 0, you won’t see the ending. PS3 players got it legally and It’s a beautiful reflection of how while humans have the ability to destroy, they can also work together for a better future. Great list btw, I don’t agree with the Would you kindly twist (in fact I think Spec Ops does it better) but every example was interesting 👍
Max!!!! in metal gear solid 3, there is a part where you go through a river,in a very creepy haunting athmosphere, and you face all the people, all the soldiers,characters, whom you have killed before during the game. very thought provoking, check it out! btw that part is a dream actually
Have you ever played the game "soma"? I think it's questions about what it even means to be alive or contious are quite profound. There is even this conversation about life and the afterlife when the player is in an elevator to the bottom of the ocean that inspired quite a lot of thought on my part.
Soma is a truly powerful experience, and i certainly hope anyone reading this is willing to give it a try. Just know you might be stuck with a few sleepless nights from there on out.
The particularly chilling thing about Undertale for me, is that if you do go for the pacifist ending after getting the genocide one, the pacifist ending is forever corrupted by Chara replacing Frisk. Like, the game knows you willfully decided to kill everyone, and it wants you to remember that, even if you save everyone in later runs. It's pretty much a commentary on how some people just want to see every last possibility of a game, just because they can.
* I want to say that _XenoGears_ is missing from this list, but I'm hard pressed to find a single moment to suggest. I guess the profundity of that game comes from the whole and not so much its separate parts (though finding out the root of Fei's trauma was pretty goddamn chilling, not to mention Ramsus' origin story). * _Chrono Cross_ is a similar story: amazing experience overall, but which part to pick? * I'd even say _Resident Evil_ deserves a mention here, with the infamous "Itchy, scratchy..." diary which shows the descent into madness by a man infected by the T-virus. RE gets a lot of crap for having mediocre story and dialogue, but I think the original game masterfully made the mansion into a character of its own while also going at great lengths to show that the zombies you're fighting were once living, breathing human beings. * _Max Payne_ perhaps, when he has a drug induced hallucination and realizes he is in a video game. * _Silent Hill 2_ when the letter from the intro sequence (which you can access via de menu) gradually fades to a blank sheet as the game progresses. * _Pathologic 2_ when you die for the first time and Mark gives you a lecture that starts to imply the truth behind the events in the disease stricken town.
Metal Gear is legit but Nier Automata stands above the rest for me. It used the medium of video games in the most innovative way to make a point about the will to live, cooperation and the meaning of life.
The game is a masterpiece but it didn't use the medium of video games in innovative way. Video games are about choice and player input. The game was completely linear. You could make a movie out of it, and it would be the same.
@@damazywlodarczyk have you gotten ending E? It is literally the most innovative way to ise the medium of videogames. There are 26 endings so plenty of player choice and input too, though I dont consider that to be important. If anything, ending e was the most meaningful choice in videogame history. You could NEVER do what ending E did in a movie.
@@NWOtion You didn't even played 1% of the games in the video game history so saying stuff like THE MOST IMPORTANT CHOICE IN VIDEO GAME HISTORY IS gargantuan pathos, also according to who? You? This game was all linear, the only choice was ending e, so its what? 5 minutes of game? 0.01% of the game? And of course you could do it in movie form, because the point was to achieve ending e, and not not achieve it, so it was still linear storytelling. The game didnt use the game medium game in a meaningful way, you could make a movie out of it and the whole content would be intact, just think a little.
@@damazywlodarczyk honestly you’ve completely missed the point of the game or havent played it. Youve resorted to ad hominems because you are a poor writer and obviously are not smart. The implication that I am the one who needs to think is silly when youre talking about the objective is to get the ending and not not get it. You also have no idea what pathos is so go look that up lol. Now, please tell me how a movie can force you to delete your data so that you can help another stranger in finishing the story.
A lot of those would also be in my top 10, even if I only include the ones I've seen for myself. But I would give significantly more representation to examples over dialogue. Actions or reactions to the hand the characters have been dealt, or storytelling in gameplay that encapsulates a feeling of peace and tranquility long after I've taken my hands off the controller.
The Legacy of Kain had the greatest story and constantly profound dialogue any video game had ever been given, and it was killed by the sequels going down a hack'n'slash path, instead of the original gameplay of Blood Omen, which was an actual open-world sandbox playable on a console many folks today would consider archaic.
For me personally it was the decision to kill or side with Robert House in New Vegas. For once a dictator in history truly embodies the 18th century ideal of a "enlightened monarch" and it is up to the player to decide whether this truly fertile ground for this experiment to truly take place, or whether the conditions of this idea never really changed and it still wouldn't work and therefore should be stopped. What makes it even more heartbreaking is that if you decide to kill him, you don't have an epic battle or whatever, but you see and confront a shriveled up old man who forsake everything in his life in the name of progress judge you face to face for your decision.
I’m a nurse with two different jobs in two different departments. One of them is psych. Whenever asking something from a patient I actually preface it with “would you kindly” and not only have I not been called out for it yet, it actually works very well. Shits crazy
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, but there was one hell of a profound moment in the series. While the series is kind of kiddish and focuses more on moral points (it is a Disney based game), there is a profound conversation in the Kingdom Hearts 3 DLC, ReMind. It is a very philosophical speech between the main villain and a mysterious figure, the goes beyond the scope of the games. Of course you’d have to spend days playing through the games to get to this point for context, but it could be interesting to dissect!
Honestly, I think that some of the writing in the Kingdom Hearts series is smarter than most people give it credit for, simply writing it off as weird or too anime. "I simply realize that it is easier to dismiss what you don't understand"
@@megabyte01 it’s actually good and complex. It’s just that on the surface level it’s geared more to children. Hell, even the beginning of KH 2 and themes throughout that game and Days could be considered as profound if you get into it
@@tyke2829 man, I cannot say enough good things about 368/2 days. I swear it got the perfect balance between adventure and tedium to tell its story about lingering in a bad situation when you know you should move on or find a way to fix it.
For me, the most profound moments in games are 1. Modern warfare 2 No Russian and loose ends 2. When you learn the truth about the Faro plague and Project Zero Dawn from Horizon Zero Dawn.
I am surprised that Shadow Warrior remake (2013) or at least its ending did not got on the list. It is beautiful story about Forbidden love, betrayal, revenge, exile, unlikely partnership that is becoming genuine friendship after being putting it to the test and ultimately, redemption for sins of the past. The fact that both character are on the path of it own redemption without knowing it till the end resonate incredibly strong in players mind. I cried like a little baby i wont lie...and that was the only time the game made me cry. Plus the soundtrack really caches the atmosphere better than most other story driven games.
The ending of Final Fantasy XIV's Endwalker would also be on my personal list. (Spoilers!) When they created Meteion to figure out meaning and life on other planets and she only sees the worst things in humanity and living beings so instead of bringing back hope from her astral journey, she enters a deep state of fatalism and within that existential crisis she tries to erase her creators amd every life form due to its deficiency.. And then you try to fight her in a dark void in the universe and all of your friends disappear one by one and it seems like you've been lulled in by the darkness, too. But then your friends return and show you the path to the last encounter, the last trial of the expansion. And then you hear the vocals and the lyrics of the music for thte first time (after only hearing the instrumental version for so long)... This was probably the most breathtaking moment in my personal video game life... Btw: Here's the music: ua-cam.com/video/xBR0IWf4t0o/v-deo.html And yeah, play FFXIV! It's amazing! :D
Under the first definition of profound "(of a state, quality, or emotion) very great or intense" the ending of The Last Guardian is #1 for me. The realization that he has to leave just gutted me. I've never been more attached to a fictional character in my life and the way the ending cut me into pieces was very profound
I think you should check out Higurashi When They Cry. Its old and long and to the distaste of some, anime, but I think there are a few great and potentially profound moments to be found within. Personally, the end of part 3 floored me and I hope you can have as good of an experience. If you do, be sure to read the visual novel rather than any of the adaptations, and use the 07th mod for the original experience. In any case, this was a nice video. Great choices.
I watched The Machinist featuring Christian Bale last night. The Story really reminded me of Silent Hill 2, in terms of facing your guilt. You ever watched that one Max?
Shutter Island was another movie that ripped off Silent Hill 2 story... I got the Mary ending in the game tho, and won't consider other canon. They KINDA repeated themselves in Silent Hill Homecoming, and I got psych ward ending, which I loved... but UFO is the only canon one that ties all games together. xd
I've played every game on the list & agree. I'd maybe add Mother 3 if you haven't played it. Great game. & TBH FF14 is incredible. You would really love the Hermes/Fandaniel/Meteon arch. For an MMO it stays true to its roots. I get it you can't use 5 games from the Final Fantasy series though. You should do a video on every Final Fantasy game & their nods to existentialism
The Last of Us has been released in 2013. The Pitt (Fallout 3 DLC) released in 2009 includes similar concept of child being a cure (no need of killing her, but her parents are controversial at best).
Realizing Kreia's plan in KOTOR2 was my #1, as it changed my entire outlook on the Star Wars franchise that has had a significant impact on my life. Everything in that franchise is now colored through the lens of her beliefs (whether they are true/canon or not). And yep, ready for Elden Ring, got 5 days off of work to dive in. Probably not enough to finish but enough to avoid the shelling of early spoilers.
Kind of connected to that moment in KOTOR 2 is The moment that the Jedi council explains how your player character became so incredibly powerful so quickly. I had not seen ludo narrative resonance like that
Breath of Fire 4 has some really deep and profound plot twists, stuff like the way the WMD-equivalent "Carronade" is powered and the game's ending really affected me as a kid (no spoilers) - there's a lot of other philosophical moments like fighting something that thinks it's a God and the difference in the nature of how different cultures view and worship Gods as a kind of necessary component of the world... it doesn't get as much attention being a PS1 JRPG sadly.
Max, existentialism is very profound, but there is one thing that is more profound than "am i real", and that is "is change possible". It is encapsulated in gaming in the question "what can change the nature of a man", from planescape:torment. This question is brought up several times in the game, but it is at the very end when the protagonist ask the antagonist the question, that is the most profound moment.
The Longest Journey has many profound moments. It's a game about other dimensions and alternate timelines and the story blew my mind! I still rank it as one of my favorite games ever but since its a point & click, it's criminally underrated! I literally cried at the end because it shocked me so much even though it was staring me right in the face the entire game! The main protagonist, April Ryan is witty and hilariousl! Everyone should check it out so i thought it deserved a mention!✌️
I would strongly argue that *BIG ASS SPOILER ALERT FOR DISCO ELYSIUM* encountering the Insulindian Phasmid in Disco Elysium deserves a spot. One of the most moving experiences I've ever had playing a video game
I don’t think this would be in the upper half of the list but I do think what I’ll call “V’s Choice” also known as Don’t Fear the Reaper in cyberpunk 2077 is deserving of this list. For context this is the moment where V and the engram of Johnny Silverhand who lives in their mind decide what to do about their final mission When you first reach the end game after meeting with Hanako at embers and almost dying, V is given 2 (secretly 3) choices. V can take a pill that will keep them alive a little longer and choose from among the allies they made in game knowing that many of those friends could die. The second option is they take the gun that was given to them and take one last look at Night City before ending their own lives. The reason this is so profound is because when we get to this point the player is fully in the realization that V is going to die as Johnnys Engram will kill him/her sooner than later. We’ve also come to realize that V the merc and Johnny the rockerboy and terrorist are not good people. As Johnny and V sit on that terrace over looking night city they and by extension the player has to come to terms on asking “Are the lives of these two dirtbags worth the lives of our friends?” What’s more this brings us to “V’s Choice Part 2.” In which if V decides to call for help from a friend and make it to their goal that could seemingly save them they find out that the death they wrought isn’t for anything. You see it is revealed by Alt (an AI who’s helping separate the two consciousnesses) that if V is placed back into his or her degrading body she will only live a few more months. Alternatively if you give Johnny the body V will go with Alt and merge with the AI and most likely lose his/her individuality but at least Johnny gets to live a full life. The players and V have to decide if Johnny, this extremely flawed man who pushed everyone away from him in life, deserves a second chance, did Johnny’s character growth in the game warrant this second chance or should V cling to life. Let step back and discuss the suicide ending. Many players consider this ending to be the best because one could argue that neither Johnny Silverhand nor V are worth the death and injury their friends go threw for them, especially when all that blood is shed to give V a few more months or give a terrorist a second chance. Perhaps it’s better to simply accept responsibility? There is that third option. If you wait five minutes after doing right dialogue choices with Johnny earlier in the game, then if you wait you can decide to do the final mission alone but you cannot save. You either succeed alone or you die and it’s game over. Whether you died in this Hail Mary attempt or you chose to die by your own hand the suicide ending cutscene still plays. The great irony is that even though V and Johnny both tried their best to spare those close to them any pain or suffering, by not dragging them into their mess, most of the people you met who call to check up on you express their disgust in you, their anger, their sadness, and disappointment. They aren’t able to see that what you did was selfless, they see it as the height of selfishness. In short, Don’t Fear the Reaper asks the player how far would they go to give bad people a second chance. Would they drag those they spent hours building a relationship with into their mess to buy a little more time for V? Would they give Johnny, a douchebag who only recently began to see the errors of his ways a second chance? Or would you realize that this city and your friends are better off without your baggage? Would you spare them from being dragged into your mess even if they hate you for it? That’s why I feel it’s one of the more profound moments in gaming even if it is under appreciated
My most profound gaming moment was when I realised DOTA 2 is toxic and I uninstalled it and my mental health improved dramatically over the next few months.
Talking about chartering new artistic territory, you have yet to experience the profundity of the game titled “Everything” truly a psychedelic and mystical journey
Fitting list. Indeed I agree with its order and reasoning behind it. Specially Spec-Ops... That game changed my life, for real, along with Metal Gear and the Last of Us. Spec-Ops made me reflect on my time at the army, and how the narrative of "protecting my people" can easily become "I destroy, because they destroyed" once SHTF. Last of Us, when I was confronted with the choice (well, not entirely "a choice", I think) of killing the Fireflies and the doctors/scientists to save Ellie, gods be damned, man, I killed everyone in that building. All the Fireflies soldiers, all the doctors, and I would have pulled the trigger at the woman in the end happily and without delay, if the game gave me that choice. I saw my son in there, and I felt glad that Joel pulled the trigger. Metal Gear has been and always will be an integral part of who I am, and its reflective and questionable nature is perhaps what made me be this curious about everything, and even when I admit that Metal Gear took me YEARS to realize what Kojima san have done, the seeds sowed in my mind were flourishing way before I finally woke up to what he did.
Shoutout to Armored Core 6's 3rd ending with the Coral and humanity finally achieving peace with one another. Only for the the game to go black and you hear "Initiating Combat Sequence"
Awesome video, as always Max! ^^ I wonder, just out of curiosity, if you've ever played either The Witness and/or Antichamber, and what would be you impressions on those.
I don't know what my most profound moments are, but one that shook me to my core was the finale of Okami when Issun unites all of Nippon under Ami. I honestly put down the controller and cried for a good ten minutes.
Do a "Top 10 most profound moments in "most profound moment in gaming history" history" next
I will. I just need to do the "Top 10 Most Profound Moments" in the "Top 10 Most Profound Moments in Gaming History" list first. Stay tuned. Stay yellow. Something something Carl Jung...
always yellow
Somehow this statement just made me think about "A bag of milk inside a bag of milk..."
The word of the day is “meta”
@@maxderrat You're such a sport.
You know Max, your work has had some profound moments itself. You've definitely given me a lot to think about over the years.
SAME
For me, one of the most profound moments was in Fable 2 where you go into an idyllic dream world with your dead sister. You know it's just a dream and you have to leave to continue the game but it's so emotionally hard to leave because this is what your character truly wants but can never have.
SOMAs "coin toss" moment when you realize that you can't transfer yourself into the deep dive body, but only a copy. Hearing yourself from the other room asking why it didn't work like planed was my favorite moment in gaming.
It changed my whole view on several related topics like teleportation in Star Trek.
That ending scene with satellite just flying.... man, it grounded my mind for days
My first time playing through SOMA I just sat there staring at the screen during the ending once you launch the Ark. I felt so so stupid, because Catherine had been spelling it out for Simon and the player from the start. It was always going to be a copy paste, rather than a cut and paste. We can't even call that ending a plot twist, because really, the game just did a beautiful job of making us forget entire conversations between Catherine and Simon about how the AIs work
The fact that they never stop calling it a "coin toss" despite the fact that it never was one; the person going into the copy machine was never going to be the one coming out the other side. But the language everyone keeps using to talk about it really illustrates how and why so many people misunderstood what it would actually do.
Funny enough, that's some Rick n Morty shit and probably was influenced by games and media like that.
Kinda reminds me of the movie the Prestige. I'm not gonna spoil why because you all owe it to yourselves to watch it. Trust me, it's absolutely brilliant and easily one of the best movies of the 2000s
There's a few picks here and there I can't say I agree with, but some of these did make me think. I hadn't even considered that Portal's twist was actually a twist once upon a time for one. I played it by the time this was common knowledge and literally hadn't even considered that it was previously a moment that actually shakes the game up so much. And I really need to get around to Playing NieR Automata sooner than later.
I'd say my favourite profound moment is in Dark Souls, but it isn't the one you mentioned (even though I quite like that one as well).
For me, it's a certain realisation: if you found out about Gwynevere being an illusion, and that Gwyndolin has been ruling over a literally god-forsaken city in secret all along, and you proceed to link the fire, you eventually come to the realisation that the Chosen Undead has been manipulated from the get-go into sacrificing himself to uphold the status quo. You learn what "becoming a lord" really means. Prophecies and promises of royalty... You're nothing but fuel for the fire.
To add a little something, in Dark Souls 3 comes the revelation that this "status quo" is being prolonged unnaturally, so if the manipulation was already bad enough, the fact that everything is crumbling down because of that status quo, is even worse.
The player is fuel to a fire that should have been extinguished long ago.
The Ringed City time jump with Filianore was extremely profound for me personally.
Exactly and that's why i always say in that game, fuck the gods and pretty much in every souls game. Gods are massive cunts
@@maxesar1 There is so much similarity to real world issues here damn.
This is what pisses me off about from software. If they just did a decent job telling their stories people would realize they're actually great stories but instead, a lot of people don't even know it has a story
- The walk to the observatory in Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
- the hard decision made at the end of The Music Machine
- The demon's argument for destroying humanity in A Machine for Pigs
- Mary's letter reading in Silent Hill 2
- The silence at the end of The Beginner's Guide
Came here for LoK, got what I wanted. I would've chosen the moment Raziel realises his fate at the end of SR2 but the coin toss scene is just as powerful.
Well, Raziel's realisation at the end of SR2 as well as his choice at the end of Defiance is the coin toss monologue coming true.
HISTORY ABHORS A PARADOX
Beautiful analysis as always, Max!
Personally, I found Bioshock 1 to fall flat for me because after the brilliant "Would you kindly" scene you get your brain fixed and are no longer a slave, yet you still follow instructions from a voice on the radio until the end, only this time it's portrayed positively because... you're following a good person's instructions this time, I guess? It felt like the game wanted to criticize railroading players yet didn't know how to make a game without railroading players
Brilliant video, Max.
I sacrificed my data in Nier: Automata, hopefully it was useful to someone out there.
The inclusion of Spec Ops: The Line was a great shout. It was completely unforgettable for me playing what I thought was just a passable shooter and then becoming completely absorbed by the psychology and philosophy of what it was doing towards the end.
Absolutely. Narratively that's one of the greatest games of all time and it's rhe type of narrative that works so much better as a video game
For me in Spec Ops: The Line its greatest moment was the fight in the mannequin room against the Heavy. It was the point where the entire plot of the game clicked for me. And it was done with gameplay not a cutscene.
LUGO IS THAT YOU
Perhaps what i found most interesting in Spec Ops is when i first played it, i completely immersed myself in Walker's delusion. I figured out pretty early (or relatively anyway) that he was hallucinating, but i didn't take a step back, i doubled down instead. For me, i was playing Walker - and i despised him to the core of my being, but i also felt the need to do as he would. So i doubled down. I shot Conrad, and i shot the rescue team that comes to try and get you out.
The unfortunate thing is that i saw what was coming during the white phosphorous scene. "There's always another way", Lugo put it. But i couldn't, i *HAD* to shoot the last shell, there was no way to break the scene, all the way in the back at the trench. Because when i saw the blips on the radar, i knew those were not going to be combatants. It kind of ruined the impact of the scene for me. I did not feel guilt, but i felt set up by the game.
There's also an absolutely amazing breakdown of Spec Ops's story where it's actually stated that the opening scene in the helo is a flashback, something that you figure out later, as Walker has a deja vu when you experience the very same scene all over. Notice how the screen fades to black when it transitions from a cutscene, but after that point, it fades to white. It is here that we can speculate (with a lot of good evidence to back that up) Walker is actually dead, and he is now continiously re-living his last moments for eternity until he makes the 'right' decision. That being, shooting yourself in the mirror. Because that's the moment you actually break from the delusion.
There's many other things the game does that i think it does so, so well. Particularly just how much i love that the game is actually a pretty 'dumb' third person Gears clone. That you start shooting everything and everyone without regard. The game will constantly berate you for what you're doing, which is why i think it gives so much food for thought. How many other shooter games have you played where the ends always justify the means? You're always doing it for the 'right' reasons, or so you're told, but did you ever take a step back to think about how many fucking lives you took in the process? When Lugo gets lynched by an angry mob, you can't pass the mob without firing into the crowd the game's implying that you should fire into the crowd, but you don't have to: Warning shots alone will suffice. You get a directive and stick to it mindlessly, all for the pursuing of the greater goal that you're said to believe is the right thing to do. The fact that such a thing comes bundled up in an otherwise 'dumb' shooter just makes it all the more powerful as games like these generally just tend to never question the player's actions. There's exceptions here and there, like Dishonored for instance, where the more death you cause, the world gets worse off for it. But even then it never truly takes a step back to allow you to reflect, and you will not be berated for causing more death. That's where Spec Ops really got me. I haven't looked at shooters the same way since.
@@finns99 I loved Spec Ops: the Line, but writers completely missed it with the target audience, their goal was a pretentious message "video game violence bad", and the "always a choice" referred to be turning off the game. Which is ridiculous, they're trying to chastise YOU for the story THEY wrote UNLESS you don't experience a toy you paid for.
"you can't pass the mob without firing into the crowd the game's implying that you should fire into the crowd, but you don't have to: Warning shots alone will suffice"
There are tons of little moments like this, like civilians jumping line of fire to provoke you shooting them, I remember moving aim away and smirking at the game trying to make a gotcha... it's all irrelevant in the end as Dubai ends up like Mariupol after r%^&*ns anyway but writers being basic they blame CIA for everything (and not, say, Sheikhs).
However, the message SOME got was "su1 cid3 is an answer" FFS NO! This is WRONG, so wrong!!! Because the ONLY choice in the game that matters happened to be shooting your player character, this is the worst kind of message to possibly get in a game which actually lets you goddamn surrender to authorities and possibly face an actual tribunal, but gamers with their "new indoctrination theory" (Spec Ops being Mass Effect IN SPA-OUT OF SPACE!) decided that being edgy and shooting yourself is the "right" ending somehow.
The game is pretty clear on what was the right choice at the start tho: following your goddamn orders, their mission was to check for survivors... and report back to HQ. But Walker had to play the hero. Him being dead ringer for ShepLoo also has a cool duality of him being a renegade while thinking he's paragon... then AGAIN, Konrad did tons of atrocities before the game even started, it's just that the hero "becomes the dragon" yet at the start, not in the end like in most media (and IIRC, Charlie Sheen REFUSED to take the place of Marlon Brando in the movie, yet I cheered at napalm in titles as the cult is shown as completely uncurable).
In the end, the game fallout ended up like Apocalypse Now before: all supposed anti-war moments with cool music were shown too badass as "do not do this cool thing" variety, and pictures like this help recruitment more than they harm it... which is fine. American anti-war media was the biggest drive for signing up since forever lmao. They should make more "war is hell" vidya to get more volunteers to come to Ukraine.
I was already typing a response, assuming my personal favorite would be overlooked, when Braid appeared as your first honorable mention. As someone who's had issues over the years with a distorted perception of reality due to trauma and dissociation, that moment still hits me hard.
I love your channel, its one of the ones I consistently look forward to videos from
I would argue that in Soul Reaver 2 the moment you realise you were the one who killed your brothers and set up the events of the first Soul Reaver was a more profound moment, at least a more personal moment. When you realise that you can't always escape your fate, that things aren't always as they seem and your hatred may blind you to the truth.
I don't think that's really how "profound" is defined in this context. None of that stuff really reaches the player and speaks on matters outside of the game's story. Finding out that you killed your own brothers as humans is just an in-game twist that is significant only to Raziel. But it doesn't go any deeper than that.
By that point in the game though, that revelation isn't exactly profound or especially consequential. As Raziel himself says, he could finally appreciate the irony of Kain's "private joke", and is more than willing to participate in it. Given that he doesn't really hold any regard for his former vampire brethren, and has just discovered that everything he thought he admired about them as Sarafan was a lie, there's no real emotional connection. The ending, however, where, upon killing his former self, Raziel discovers that the soul-devouring entity within the Soul Reaver is and always has been himself, would definitely qualify as profound.
You mentioned first KOTOR and the twist is great, but the most profound moment, for me, was in the second game, the summit with Jedi council. There are three outcomes depending on what happens earlier in the game as you meet the masters: if all of them are dead, Kreia knocks you out telepathically and chastises for being a bad girl, if you have just one of them dead from earlier missions (ignoring master on Korriban whom you find dead), they attack you without words, but if you saved ALL of their sorry asses, they give you a lecture and... try to kill you. THAT was the moment that struck with me... If you are goodie two shoes who goes out of her way to help everyone despite the odds (you're cut off from the force and imprisoned on a mining asteroid at the start, and get no help from Jedi later), they STILL decide to punish you, because you are too influential and MIGHT do something bad and people will follow you. That's it! There can be not a single fault within you and they will always declare you a-thing-that-must-not-be regardless, simply because you are strong. Bullying the dragon in the name of questionable greater good... no wonder Anakin went Sweet F.A.
Absolutely agree with these, and pretty much the order. Just like you, years ago as a teen playing through MGS2, though I had a handful of my own profound moments through gaming, none were ANYTHING like the ending of that game. None stuck with me throughout all these years like it did and actually began my, just like you, existential dread concerning the state of society, especially as the years went on and those fears increasingly came true and at a rapid pace, where we do aren't even seeing the worst it could get.
My introduction to you was actually through that first most profound moment video and I'm thankful for it not just because I learned in not alone in my experience with MGS2, but through the rest of your content I learned of Jungian concepts that I desperately needed to learn and apply to myself in my life so ended up buying a few books by Jung and learning a ton (and on a smaller note, never seeing TOOL the same way again!).
Anyway, great video. And I love the few times you randomly did light-hearted mocking. Glad to hear you sounding rather positive after seeing the video about you feeling burn out.
Hey Max, I really appreciate the content you’ve been producing over the last couple years, especially your video analysis’/essays. Would you consider covering Disco Elysium anytime soon? It’s one of my all time favorites and has a plethora of philosophical merit to offer that would make for an amazing video!
What a game. I haven't finished it yet, but the aren't many titties out there that leave me constantly thinking like it does.
Excellent as always, Max :-)
'Would You Kindly' blew my mind when I first played Bioshock - what a masterpiece!
Am extremely excited for Elden Ring & look forward to your deep-dive Lore videos after I finish the game myself.....have fun!
Lovely and great video Max, as always.
One of the recent games I played and had a profound moment for me was Hades.
There is a place where you will see Sysuphis and his stone. At this moment I realized all gamers are actually Sysuphis that goes again and again in these painful and hard stages of Hades, just to die and start over again. You might argue that Zagreus would eventually escape, but the gamer doesn't. Once he or she finishes the game (delivers the stone at the top of mountain) they would start another game (roll stone downwards) to enjoy playing again. To put in Camus's words "One must imagine Sysuphis happy." All gamers are Sysuphises who enjoys playing (rolling the ball upward) so it would fall down and roll it up again.
Max, I know I post on almost every single video, but I always feel the need to say…
I really appreciate you. You’re a good soul.
There are few creators I consistently comment on whatever I watch. Max is definitely one of em
Cloud’s discovery in FF7 was also one of the most profound in all of gaming. Extremely well written.
For me the profound moment that stuck with me was the final assault on Conrad base from mentioned here Spec Ops The Line. When the "hero" is assaulted by white phosphorus grenade - Willy Pete- he starts hallucinating again - Conrad greets him saying "Welcome to hell Walker. We've been waiting for you." and burning figures start assaulting Walker. Imo this moment stands out for 3 reasons: semantics, implications and delivery. Semantics- Conrad quite firmly says"waiting"and that implies certainty. Since Colonel is fragment of fractured Walker's mind, it means that at some level Walker himself knows what's waiting for him for crimes he commited. And yet Walker keeps going forward. Those are implications - people won't stop until their"goal" ( whatever this might be) is completed. Often even when they know how harmful their actions will be in the long run. When it comes to presentation, that's also the main problem I have with MGS2. The Line overall takes itself rather seriously and both graphics and VO performance support it. Conrad voice is serious, firm, scorning and yet you can hear a bit od irony under it. For me, MGS2 was overall goofy as hell, with it's characters taken straight from G.I Joe villains rejects, only final codec had some deeper meaning. Because of that, I never saw MGS 2 as a profound piece od art, rather a dumpster fire of Kojima's work that someone smarter and wiser than him tried to save by adding to it really meaningful observations about life and society.
But the goal is defeating Konrad's crazy cult of a unit that went rogue in harsh conditions... the story is from Apocalypse now, except your mission was "confirm survivors and report to HQ". REST was needless and more harmful in the long run heroics... With how much Walker goes insane, people miss the fact that Konrad was not a good guy, and if anything, you're just continuing paving the road to hell with your good intentions. MGS2 is just neat, Spec Ops is a take that to Mass Effect and Call of Duty, while Metal Gear Solid 2 is, obviously, a call out to MGS 1 players. Different genres, pal. Deconstruction of spy movie vs action flick.
I'm so happy that you mentioned Legacy of Kain. One of the formative games in my teenage years.
Nice video. And I got say this too. The theory about the linked story of Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and Last Guardian is very profound aswell.
I've never had the pleasure to play Bioshock for a mutitude of reasons so I went and show some recap of the all game, and when Jack got to Rupture and just started blindly following everything Atlas told him I said "This guy is so stupid why would you just do what he says and not even questions it" when we get that "Would you kindly?" reveal I understood that I was the stupid one. Till this day, is the best twist in any game I've ever seen, just brilliant.
I didn't even ask that question. I just thought, this video game, I do what it says so i can progress. The game making a play on that fact by making the protagonist also have a reason to blindly do what he's told was so cool.
Especially because Andrew Ryan fucking rules and he wanted to go out on his own terms
For me my favorite profound gaming moment has to be the ending from Assassins Creed 2 when the Isu Minerva looks directly at the camera and reveals her whole monologue about mankind’s extinction wasn’t even towards Ezio the main character, but to Desmond his decendant from 500 years after
I thoroughly enjoyed that moment, but I'm not exactly sure how it's 'profound' by Max's choice of definition.
@@Windraesa well by definition itself it is a great state of intensity or revealing a great knowledge of something much like Max’s og video of MG2 so I think I’m partially right lol
Ezio Trilogy was FULL of moments like this, and I loved the part in (Revelations IIRC) where Ezio... gets it. That he's not the only one experiencing these things and some messages are not for him. Shivers!.. then they ruined it all with Lucy becoming a higher-profile actress and they put her character on a bus in worst way possible because devs. didn't want to pay Kristen Bell higher salary or deal with her schedule. Dx
I didn't get back to AC until Origins and THAT was great, but mostly in final DLC (Curse of the Pharaohs) and the optional tombs that, again, had messages for Layla, not Bayek... still won't forgive sexist Ubisoft executives forcing developers to remake 75% of the game because they didn't want the hero (which was Amunet ever since AC2 talked about her, not her husband) to have cooties.
I wish more games had plots like MGS2, Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect... And I see a lot of people lobbying to remove modern day from AC, which would destroy the main charm... it would make the games lose the sci-fi elements that were already going down in favor of fantasy recently.
I agree with Mr. Raxicorniopholus that the main value in MGS is the fourth-wall breaking mind-screw stuff, and not the philosophy. In that, Patriots and the cryptic codec convos are very similar to when you find messages for modern era in AC2 (remember searching for glyphs and hearing CIA and Manhattan project stuff? You get that in both medieval Italy and on Big Shell), and also Reaper/Prothean stuff in ME.
Max' take on MGS2 most profound moment in gaming history is still one of my favorite videos on youtube. It scares me every time i think of it, little did i know back when it was released how important a videogame could be.
I suddenly got the urge to hit that like button. Not sure how this happened.
Would you kindly ?
@@JazzyPete "Would you kindly?" yes... powerful words.
They made me do it.
The Ending E in Nier: Automata, the whole sequence from the moment you get "the [E]nd of Yorha" on screen to when you go back to the main title, is still the most profund moment I've ever had in games. At First it was because of the whole helping others throught deleting your save data, knowing the others did the same for you, without getting any rewords for you sacrifice only the notion that you helped someone getting through something extremely difficult, was just amazing, it was a great way to hammer home the ideia of the game. But then when I started thinking about the whole sequence I noticed something, all of the struggle to beat the credits, getting taunted by those questions was the way of the game putting you the player in the shoes of the caracters of the game. Althought it was near impossible beat those credits (BUSSINESS DIVISION flashbacks), even thought you're stuck in this spiral of dying and comming back over and over, if you preservere you're rewarded for that, and that's what happens to the characters (not all of them of course). When I realised this, that sequence was elevated for at least 157 levels above anything I've seen in gamming. We can control the carachters in a game, make tought decisions (kill, spare, stuff like that) and immerse ourselves in them but I've never seen a game putting you in the place of the carachters that you've only been controlling like that, it's just too good, too perfect, and that's why Ending E of Nier:Automata is the most profund momment in my gaming history.
Honestly, the entire sequence is a life changing experience. From what basically amounts to "no, there SHOULD be a good ending!" to the realization that it's the game creators preventing one from occurring, and you have to literally defeat them to achieve one. The taunting every time you fail, slowly turning into messages from other players cheering you on that fill more and more of the screen. The feeling of triumph when you actually get other players joining to to aide you, only to feel terrible when you get hit and see a message that their data has been deleted. Getting to the end and realizing they came to help fully aware that their data would get deleted in the process, and that you would also (hopefully) gladly make the same sacrifice to help others.
What starts as an "escape the game" type of scenario gradually turns into a stronger and stronger message about how we're all connected.
Philosophy is such an under appreciated study. Being in my mid 30’s, philosophical questions become much more prevalent. Thanks to games becoming an artistic medium to ask philosophical questions, they have helped me in my life’s journey. I have several friends now asking these questions too. I direct people to Max’s video and the games he suggests. These videos are more than just a conversation piece
Games are toys for kids, and sometimes, very rarely, some games have some interesting content, not much, just a little, this is not an intellectual medium in reality, shame, you want intellectual, read books and don't play games.
@@damazywlodarczyk think you're just pretentious and haven't played enough/ the right games
I want to hear your take on Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker. SO. BAD.
Also, I love the shoutout to Ash Lake in DS1. That moment has stuck with me heavily for years.
MGS2 is mind bogglingly profound in its entirety. Not even just the ending, the entire game and advertising for it just flipped everything on its head. The hype was at a fever pitch after the immensely successfully MGS, and I can't believe how daring Kojima was to disregard any sense of hype or expectation to deliver what is, in my opinion, still the most fascinating and profound game to date. I know some people downplay it to an extent because it wasn't the first medium to put forth these ideas, but to do so as an interactive experience and make the player feel personally confronted by those ideas just puts it on a whole other level. The Patriot AI in MGS2 is utterly terrifying because of the realism of what it describes...if it didn't shake you in 2001 it will now.
Brilliant video! I'm glad Ash Lake got a shout out, I can't even describe how finding this has made me feel
Another video from Mr Derrat, and it's another insightful study of video game narrative power, it's Christmas!
When I was in college I wrote a presentation on why I think dayz is one of the best social experiments and markers of what humans will do in a similar environment. The struggle to get food weapons etc, really adds a level of importance on your own life in the game. I think that would be a great topic for a channel like yours to cover.
Damn man..what a great video as always..keep at it. These really resonate with me and bring me back
I'd add the white phosphorus scene in Spec Ops The Line, the beginning of Route C in Nier Automata, and "You gave me a name when I was a number" in Tales of Berseria.
A profound game I played recently was Darq. At the end, the main character goes through a white hole with a light and you hear baby cries. People assume the main character is being born or dying finally.
Then the dlcs seem to imply something else.
Max, thank you so much for putting so much effort on making these videos
I can t believe it took me so long to discover your videos. Thank you for everything Max.
Honestly after thinking more and more about it I have decided that
While not as iconic and not as meta to the player, the nuclear launch scene in the first Modern Warfare is a more powerful anti-war message than the white phosphorus scene in Spec Ops. The storytelling in that game is very underrated and too overshadowed by the No Russians scene in Modern Warfare 2.
Ending E in Nier Automata. The only time I’ve ever had to stop, put down the controller, say “wow” out loud and deeply contemplate the game I had just experienced. I mean that game had been consistently blowing my mind with existential revelations the whole playthrough. But that end…
Excellent choices for profound moments. Dark Souls 3 also did the whole 3rd option thing that was in Legacy of Kain, but Kain did it first. Super excited for Elden Ring personally!
Undertale has many, MANY profound moments, but the one that hit me the most was when (in pacifist run) reaching the final town that's all-gray, and the song "Undertale" plays while you ascend. The monsters, instead of fighting you, tell you what happened to Asgore, and your role in all of this.
"You're going to set us free..."
😭
I don't comment often, but I think you should have a look at the series of games "LISA" ; especially "The Painful" opus. A heart breaking masterpiece.
I saw some To The Moon in that lead up. What a beautiful and philosophical game.
It’s great to see KoTOR as an honorable mention here, Max. Wasn’t expecting Portal to be here. Mainly tried to play Portal 2 for completion and shenanigans and funny hijinks with a friend who liked puzzles. Also, the lore of Doug Ratman is just eerie and dark. I think Valve and writers Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw (who co-wrote the story and scenario for Half-Life 2 Episode 1 and 2 alongside Laidlaw) Jay Pinkerton did an excellent job creating a dirty lab mood and environment as well as fleshing out the mysteriousness of Ratman. Cave Johnson was cool too because he was voiced by J. Jonah Jameson from the Raimi Spiderman trilogy (JK Simmons)
The ending to Outer Wilds and the ending to its DLC Echos of the Eye were the most profound moments in a game to me
Awesome! Love your vids Max. Have you played Senua? I’m manic depressive bi-polar and hear voices sometimes also. It’s pretty good about the paranoia you feel and the fact that sometimes you feel like everything g is destined and set up for you.
Honestly, who didn't see the last of us's "twist" coming from the beginning of the game. As soon as the central quest started, I realized that this time Joe wouldnt let his "daughter" die. This means that the culmination would necessarily have a hard choice. Given that it would be too simple for the game to be "get her there and everything is solved" I thought the reveal was cheap and predictable and that Joel's choice was the only one that left. It was not the zombies that took his daughter but humans and he wont tolerate it again. This is a common trope in a lot of zombie media, that people are worse than zombies.
yeah i agree with you, i honestly think it's one of the most overrated games i've ever played, no idea why people hold it to such a high standard
Wait... Did people actually believe the cake was real before reaching that room? 🤯
My bias is towards JRPGs so I was expecting / hoping to see death of Aerith, Fei is Id, FF8 amnesia, Tidus is a dream, Vivi’s death (it was on the list, right?), etc.
Keep up the good work!
While I wouldn’t say it’s a better moment, I think the nuclear disarmament ending in Metal Gear Solid V matches Automata’s Ending E. While you don’t have to sacrifice something valuable (a nuclear bomb is only beneficial if you want to defend your base), the main difference is that you need to cooperate with other players. If the number of bombs in a platoform isn’t 0, you won’t see the ending.
PS3 players got it legally and It’s a beautiful reflection of how while humans have the ability to destroy, they can also work together for a better future.
Great list btw, I don’t agree with the Would you kindly twist (in fact I think Spec Ops does it better) but every example was interesting 👍
Max!!!! in metal gear solid 3, there is a part where you go through a river,in a very creepy haunting athmosphere, and you face all the people, all the soldiers,characters, whom you have killed before during the game. very thought provoking, check it out! btw that part is a dream actually
It's a boss fight... the more people you killed the harder it is BTW.
There's a big, Planescape: Torment-shaped hole in your list.
Have you ever played the game "soma"? I think it's questions about what it even means to be alive or contious are quite profound. There is even this conversation about life and the afterlife when the player is in an elevator to the bottom of the ocean that inspired quite a lot of thought on my part.
Soma is a truly powerful experience, and i certainly hope anyone reading this is willing to give it a try. Just know you might be stuck with a few sleepless nights from there on out.
@@finns99 - I got the game free on Steam and EPIC but never played it.
Go through his uploads, he did a general story analysis a few years ago and a very interesting theory breakdown of SOMA.
The particularly chilling thing about Undertale for me, is that if you do go for the pacifist ending after getting the genocide one, the pacifist ending is forever corrupted by Chara replacing Frisk.
Like, the game knows you willfully decided to kill everyone, and it wants you to remember that, even if you save everyone in later runs. It's pretty much a commentary on how some people just want to see every last possibility of a game, just because they can.
* I want to say that _XenoGears_ is missing from this list, but I'm hard pressed to find a single moment to suggest. I guess the profundity of that game comes from the whole and not so much its separate parts (though finding out the root of Fei's trauma was pretty goddamn chilling, not to mention Ramsus' origin story).
* _Chrono Cross_ is a similar story: amazing experience overall, but which part to pick?
* I'd even say _Resident Evil_ deserves a mention here, with the infamous "Itchy, scratchy..." diary which shows the descent into madness by a man infected by the T-virus. RE gets a lot of crap for having mediocre story and dialogue, but I think the original game masterfully made the mansion into a character of its own while also going at great lengths to show that the zombies you're fighting were once living, breathing human beings.
* _Max Payne_ perhaps, when he has a drug induced hallucination and realizes he is in a video game.
* _Silent Hill 2_ when the letter from the intro sequence (which you can access via de menu) gradually fades to a blank sheet as the game progresses.
* _Pathologic 2_ when you die for the first time and Mark gives you a lecture that starts to imply the truth behind the events in the disease stricken town.
Late answer but I just have to say I'm glad people have been noticing Legacy of Kain more recently. Such an underrated gem of a story.
Metal Gear is legit but Nier Automata stands above the rest for me. It used the medium of video games in the most innovative way to make a point about the will to live, cooperation and the meaning of life.
The game is a masterpiece but it didn't use the medium of video games in innovative way. Video games are about choice and player input. The game was completely linear. You could make a movie out of it, and it would be the same.
@@damazywlodarczyk have you gotten ending E? It is literally the most innovative way to ise the medium of videogames. There are 26 endings so plenty of player choice and input too, though I dont consider that to be important. If anything, ending e was the most meaningful choice in videogame history. You could NEVER do what ending E did in a movie.
@@NWOtion You didn't even played 1% of the games in the video game history so saying stuff like THE MOST IMPORTANT CHOICE IN VIDEO GAME HISTORY IS gargantuan pathos, also according to who? You? This game was all linear, the only choice was ending e, so its what? 5 minutes of game? 0.01% of the game? And of course you could do it in movie form, because the point was to achieve ending e, and not not achieve it, so it was still linear storytelling. The game didnt use the game medium game in a meaningful way, you could make a movie out of it and the whole content would be intact, just think a little.
@@damazywlodarczyk honestly you’ve completely missed the point of the game or havent played it. Youve resorted to ad hominems because you are a poor writer and obviously are not smart. The implication that I am the one who needs to think is silly when youre talking about the objective is to get the ending and not not get it. You also have no idea what pathos is so go look that up lol. Now, please tell me how a movie can force you to delete your data so that you can help another stranger in finishing the story.
@@damazywlodarczyk also, your writing is horrible and makes no sense. You’re not smart, lol
A lot of those would also be in my top 10, even if I only include the ones I've seen for myself.
But I would give significantly more representation to examples over dialogue. Actions or reactions to the hand the characters have been dealt, or storytelling in gameplay that encapsulates a feeling of peace and tranquility long after I've taken my hands off the controller.
The Legacy of Kain had the greatest story and constantly profound dialogue any video game had ever been given, and it was killed by the sequels going down a hack'n'slash path, instead of the original gameplay of Blood Omen, which was an actual open-world sandbox playable on a console many folks today would consider archaic.
I’m surprised you didn’t include SOMA and its ending. I’d also put forward INSIDE too.
For me personally it was the decision to kill or side with Robert House in New Vegas. For once a dictator in history truly embodies the 18th century ideal of a "enlightened monarch" and it is up to the player to decide whether this truly fertile ground for this experiment to truly take place, or whether the conditions of this idea never really changed and it still wouldn't work and therefore should be stopped. What makes it even more heartbreaking is that if you decide to kill him, you don't have an epic battle or whatever, but you see and confront a shriveled up old man who forsake everything in his life in the name of progress judge you face to face for your decision.
I’m a nurse with two different jobs in two different departments. One of them is psych. Whenever asking something from a patient I actually preface it with “would you kindly” and not only have I not been called out for it yet, it actually works very well. Shits crazy
Am surprised you haven’t done more videos on control..
Seems like the themes are right up your alley.
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, but there was one hell of a profound moment in the series. While the series is kind of kiddish and focuses more on moral points (it is a Disney based game), there is a profound conversation in the Kingdom Hearts 3 DLC, ReMind. It is a very philosophical speech between the main villain and a mysterious figure, the goes beyond the scope of the games. Of course you’d have to spend days playing through the games to get to this point for context, but it could be interesting to dissect!
Honestly, I think that some of the writing in the Kingdom Hearts series is smarter than most people give it credit for, simply writing it off as weird or too anime. "I simply realize that it is easier to dismiss what you don't understand"
@@megabyte01 it’s actually good and complex. It’s just that on the surface level it’s geared more to children. Hell, even the beginning of KH 2 and themes throughout that game and Days could be considered as profound if you get into it
@@tyke2829 man, I cannot say enough good things about 368/2 days. I swear it got the perfect balance between adventure and tedium to tell its story about lingering in a bad situation when you know you should move on or find a way to fix it.
Your videos are always a treat. Can't wait for the Elden Ring content
For me, the most profound moments in games are
1. Modern warfare 2 No Russian and loose ends
2. When you learn the truth about the Faro plague and Project Zero Dawn from Horizon Zero Dawn.
I am surprised that Shadow Warrior remake (2013) or at least its ending did not got on the list. It is beautiful story about Forbidden love, betrayal, revenge, exile, unlikely partnership that is becoming genuine friendship after being putting it to the test and ultimately, redemption for sins of the past.
The fact that both character are on the path of it own redemption without knowing it till the end resonate incredibly strong in players mind.
I cried like a little baby i wont lie...and that was the only time the game made me cry. Plus the soundtrack really caches the atmosphere better than most other story driven games.
The ending of Final Fantasy XIV's Endwalker would also be on my personal list. (Spoilers!) When they created Meteion to figure out meaning and life on other planets and she only sees the worst things in humanity and living beings so instead of bringing back hope from her astral journey, she enters a deep state of fatalism and within that existential crisis she tries to erase her creators amd every life form due to its deficiency..
And then you try to fight her in a dark void in the universe and all of your friends disappear one by one and it seems like you've been lulled in by the darkness, too. But then your friends return and show you the path to the last encounter, the last trial of the expansion. And then you hear the vocals and the lyrics of the music for thte first time (after only hearing the instrumental version for so long)... This was probably the most breathtaking moment in my personal video game life...
Btw: Here's the music: ua-cam.com/video/xBR0IWf4t0o/v-deo.html And yeah, play FFXIV! It's amazing! :D
YEEEEEESSSSSSS LETS GOOOOOOO 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I LOVE UR TOP 10 VIDEOS ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Always glad to see a fellow Legacy of Kain enjoyer
Under the first definition of profound "(of a state, quality, or emotion) very great or intense" the ending of The Last Guardian is #1 for me. The realization that he has to leave just gutted me. I've never been more attached to a fictional character in my life and the way the ending cut me into pieces was very profound
Man I really love your channel! You’re really a wise and insightful gamer. Thanks for all the deep and thought provoking videos!
I think you should check out Higurashi When They Cry. Its old and long and to the distaste of some, anime, but I think there are a few great and potentially profound moments to be found within. Personally, the end of part 3 floored me and I hope you can have as good of an experience. If you do, be sure to read the visual novel rather than any of the adaptations, and use the 07th mod for the original experience.
In any case, this was a nice video. Great choices.
I watched The Machinist featuring Christian Bale last night. The Story really reminded me of Silent Hill 2, in terms of facing your guilt. You ever watched that one Max?
Shutter Island was another movie that ripped off Silent Hill 2 story... I got the Mary ending in the game tho, and won't consider other canon. They KINDA repeated themselves in Silent Hill Homecoming, and I got psych ward ending, which I loved... but UFO is the only canon one that ties all games together. xd
Inside is one of the few titles I played back to back just to experience it all over again.....a master class of design an narative
When raziel sacrifices himself to the reaver
I've played every game on the list & agree. I'd maybe add Mother 3 if you haven't played it. Great game. & TBH FF14 is incredible. You would really love the Hermes/Fandaniel/Meteon arch. For an MMO it stays true to its roots. I get it you can't use 5 games from the Final Fantasy series though. You should do a video on every Final Fantasy game & their nods to existentialism
The Last of Us has been released in 2013.
The Pitt (Fallout 3 DLC) released in 2009 includes similar concept of child being a cure (no need of killing her, but her parents are controversial at best).
It's a shame I knew the twist to Bioshock before I played it so I lost something there. It's still one of my favourite games of all time.
Realizing Kreia's plan in KOTOR2 was my #1, as it changed my entire outlook on the Star Wars franchise that has had a significant impact on my life. Everything in that franchise is now colored through the lens of her beliefs (whether they are true/canon or not).
And yep, ready for Elden Ring, got 5 days off of work to dive in. Probably not enough to finish but enough to avoid the shelling of early spoilers.
Kind of connected to that moment in KOTOR 2 is The moment that the Jedi council explains how your player character became so incredibly powerful so quickly. I had not seen ludo narrative resonance like that
I agree with your choices, great vídeo Max!, very interesting to see and analize
Breath of Fire 4 has some really deep and profound plot twists, stuff like the way the WMD-equivalent "Carronade" is powered and the game's ending really affected me as a kid (no spoilers) - there's a lot of other philosophical moments like fighting something that thinks it's a God and the difference in the nature of how different cultures view and worship Gods as a kind of necessary component of the world... it doesn't get as much attention being a PS1 JRPG sadly.
Max, existentialism is very profound, but there is one thing that is more profound than "am i real", and that is "is change possible". It is encapsulated in gaming in the question "what can change the nature of a man", from planescape:torment. This question is brought up several times in the game, but it is at the very end when the protagonist ask the antagonist the question, that is the most profound moment.
The Longest Journey has many profound moments. It's a game about other dimensions and alternate timelines and the story blew my mind! I still rank it as one of my favorite games ever but since its a point & click, it's criminally underrated! I literally cried at the end because it shocked me so much even though it was staring me right in the face the entire game! The main protagonist, April Ryan is witty and hilariousl! Everyone should check it out so i thought it deserved a mention!✌️
Hi Max! It's good to see you 🔥
I would strongly argue that *BIG ASS SPOILER ALERT FOR DISCO ELYSIUM*
encountering the Insulindian Phasmid in Disco Elysium deserves a spot. One of the most moving experiences I've ever had playing a video game
I don’t think this would be in the upper half of the list but I do think what I’ll call “V’s Choice” also known as Don’t Fear the Reaper in cyberpunk 2077 is deserving of this list.
For context this is the moment where V and the engram of Johnny Silverhand who lives in their mind decide what to do about their final mission
When you first reach the end game after meeting with Hanako at embers and almost dying, V is given 2 (secretly 3) choices. V can take a pill that will keep them alive a little longer and choose from among the allies they made in game knowing that many of those friends could die. The second option is they take the gun that was given to them and take one last look at Night City before ending their own lives.
The reason this is so profound is because when we get to this point the player is fully in the realization that V is going to die as Johnnys Engram will kill him/her sooner than later. We’ve also come to realize that V the merc and Johnny the rockerboy and terrorist are not good people. As Johnny and V sit on that terrace over looking night city they and by extension the player has to come to terms on asking “Are the lives of these two dirtbags worth the lives of our friends?”
What’s more this brings us to “V’s Choice Part 2.” In which if V decides to call for help from a friend and make it to their goal that could seemingly save them they find out that the death they wrought isn’t for anything. You see it is revealed by Alt (an AI who’s helping separate the two consciousnesses) that if V is placed back into his or her degrading body she will only live a few more months. Alternatively if you give Johnny the body V will go with Alt and merge with the AI and most likely lose his/her individuality but at least Johnny gets to live a full life. The players and V have to decide if Johnny, this extremely flawed man who pushed everyone away from him in life, deserves a second chance, did Johnny’s character growth in the game warrant this second chance or should V cling to life.
Let step back and discuss the suicide ending. Many players consider this ending to be the best because one could argue that neither Johnny Silverhand nor V are worth the death and injury their friends go threw for them, especially when all that blood is shed to give V a few more months or give a terrorist a second chance. Perhaps it’s better to simply accept responsibility?
There is that third option. If you wait five minutes after doing right dialogue choices with Johnny earlier in the game, then if you wait you can decide to do the final mission alone but you cannot save. You either succeed alone or you die and it’s game over. Whether you died in this Hail Mary attempt or you chose to die by your own hand the suicide ending cutscene still plays. The great irony is that even though V and Johnny both tried their best to spare those close to them any pain or suffering, by not dragging them into their mess, most of the people you met who call to check up on you express their disgust in you, their anger, their sadness, and disappointment. They aren’t able to see that what you did was selfless, they see it as the height of selfishness.
In short, Don’t Fear the Reaper asks the player how far would they go to give bad people a second chance. Would they drag those they spent hours building a relationship with into their mess to buy a little more time for V? Would they give Johnny, a douchebag who only recently began to see the errors of his ways a second chance? Or would you realize that this city and your friends are better off without your baggage? Would you spare them from being dragged into your mess even if they hate you for it? That’s why I feel it’s one of the more profound moments in gaming even if it is under appreciated
Excellent as always.
Thank you for being both profound and awake.
My most profound gaming moment was when I realised DOTA 2 is toxic and I uninstalled it and my mental health improved dramatically over the next few months.
Talking about chartering new artistic territory, you have yet to experience the profundity of the game titled “Everything” truly a psychedelic and mystical journey
Fitting list. Indeed I agree with its order and reasoning behind it.
Specially Spec-Ops... That game changed my life, for real, along with Metal Gear and the Last of Us.
Spec-Ops made me reflect on my time at the army, and how the narrative of "protecting my people" can easily become "I destroy, because they destroyed" once SHTF.
Last of Us, when I was confronted with the choice (well, not entirely "a choice", I think) of killing the Fireflies and the doctors/scientists to save Ellie, gods be damned, man, I killed everyone in that building. All the Fireflies soldiers, all the doctors, and I would have pulled the trigger at the woman in the end happily and without delay, if the game gave me that choice. I saw my son in there, and I felt glad that Joel pulled the trigger.
Metal Gear has been and always will be an integral part of who I am, and its reflective and questionable nature is perhaps what made me be this curious about everything, and even when I admit that Metal Gear took me YEARS to realize what Kojima san have done, the seeds sowed in my mind were flourishing way before I finally woke up to what he did.
Shoutout to Armored Core 6's 3rd ending with the Coral and humanity finally achieving peace with one another. Only for the the game to go black and you hear "Initiating Combat Sequence"
Are you saying I can live a profound life while playing videogames? I am touched.
For me the most poignant moment of Journey was discovering who my companions along the way truly were.
Yea that was a really cool realization
Awesome video, as always Max! ^^
I wonder, just out of curiosity, if you've ever played either The Witness and/or Antichamber, and what would be you impressions on those.
I don't know what my most profound moments are, but one that shook me to my core was the finale of Okami when Issun unites all of Nippon under Ami. I honestly put down the controller and cried for a good ten minutes.