Have you even listen to why I put it in B tier or did you skip? Regardless, people think too highly of mages in open world without understanding what makes Mages very strong in pvp.
@@ThoGreyClassicI disagree man. Its like the biggest point is poly doesn’t work in world pvp (most of the time), because a mob is on you. Im a main mage and you have frost nova, CoC, r1 frostbolts, blink, frostbite, iceblock, etc. I dont even poly someone most of the time. Mages are great in World PvP!
@@timieboy15 Its great versus some of the classes. But realistically, you SHOULD lose versus Druid, Hunter, Shaman, you just go even versus priest ( and thats if you run away). Rogue is a pure skillmatchup in open world, and paladin depends on mana and resets. Warrior is the easy win and warlock depends on the pet they have. Like I understand your pov, I m a main hunter and druid and new SP main. Mages really dont pose a threat except in a bg or duel to me AND no cds from my side
@@ThoGreyClassic A hunter is easy, just get into dead zone. Also you have options vs shamans, but idd druid is hard. Thing is mages can really be gods in world pvp and I think its more important how skilled someone is. Ofc you have counters, every class have them. The thing I just wont put them in a B tier, at least A
I do apologize but I have to strongly disagree with you. Warlocks Mage's and shadow priests are S TIER PLUS when comes to wpvp still appreciate your efforts you doing for the wow community 👍
I mean, In a clean 1V1 Shadow priest is indeed very strong ( Duels tier list ). I do think they BECOME better in later phases. But phase 1 bro.. it's not the same as when we are fully decked out.
HmmmMmmMm, Priest is way lower then, Warrior too. Druid is not that great because you don't have the tools that you would have through gearing / talents. Hunter probably top of the food chain with Rogue still. Warlock depends on faction but missing death coil sucks, and mage would do better but I do think Open world is not the same as duels. But hard to say tbh.
@@GamingDualities Nah, if you are a content creator and you want more people to view your channel you have to provide timestamps on videos of this length. You alright?
@@davidinman6020 lol if u think today content creation is just about how good content u make u know very little. today is all bout how many people and algorithm are u willing to manipulate with promotional accounts and b0ts
@@davidinman6020 I mean, the issue with timestamps is that it encourages people to skip which drops viewtime considerably. From the knowledge I have from my first channel, I just know that people skip in tier lists, I don't want to give them even more of a chance to skip. BUT I understand your pov.
All classes I’ve played wpvp very competitively. The absolute best is Frost mage and Feral Druid. I can 1vX consistently with mage and the only hard counter being feral. The ability to down rank for easy shatter procs is broken. If you can’t get your casts off it’s a user error in my opinion.
In phase 1, I would move druid to S Tier if the player is truly skilled, the same can go for frost mage. Also most average players are going to be destroyed by a good warlock. I understand your reasoning behind the ranks, but I think a lot of it comes down to player skill. Some classes have higher skill floors than others, but some classes have a very high skill ceiling with the right player behind the keyboard.
but.....if all players were hypothetically on the SAME skill level then this chart would be accurate, but I do agree with you 100% on skill level as a skilled D class can smoke an S+ every day of the week.
Skill over everything of course. But it's hard to make a tier list counting on the fact that skill can be different. I had to try to imagine both players being equally skilled, and seeing them at the engager and the engagee. Will never have a 100% satisfaction rate on a tier list like this.
@@adamkelly4308 i respect it, why mate on S tier? I feel like what makes mage very good gets countered if you have a mob on you. Feels also that it loses versus pretty much half of the matchups aswell. Rated mage higher on my duelist tier list
Your opinion ok engy is rarely the case.... yes both parties may have engineering, but not both parties are going to have all of the GNOMISH items equipped all the time. Most engineers onoy use grenades. Most players do not have items like netomatic trink, rocket boots equipped. Especially if hey already have plenty of cc or mobility. They are probably roaming around with dmg trinkets. I always have those items on my paladin for wpvp because ai am missing those abilities from my class toolkit. A rogue already has a sprint, so they are not going to use rocket boots or nifty stopwatch... so when they sprint and i sprint with them i get the advantage because they dont expect a pally to have it.
Yeah, I rate Pally pretty high in regards. I'm leveling as an alt/main btw. Although, I still don't know if I'll level a third class or not. And yes you are right, I try to make it as objective as possible but in general, the one who engages the pvp in wpvp, just wins because likely to be ready to fight too.
Yeah I listened. And imo no upside down isn’t correct but it’s closer than what you have. My biggest gripes is with priest and lock being so low. They really should be right below rogue. I know dueling and open world are not the same but they are similar and try telling snutz that warlocks suck. Also in 2019 I mained a dwarf spriest (rank 13) and I sooooo rarely lost a open world 1v1. Not that I’m a PvP got. Spriest is just SO broken. And mages are prob the best 1vX class after rogue, and can escape fairly well with blink and sheep (something that admittedly locks and priests cannot do) I think it really needs to look more like… Rogue, Priest, Mage, Lock, Druid, Hunter, Pally, Sham, Warr
@@kumuqua I mean, you could check my duelist tier list and you'll see how I see these specs mate. I really think World PVP isn't the same as duels. I respect people that say Mage should be higher, and yes they are good at 1vX, but alot of things need to be right. ( like not having any mobs on the enemy), be fighting in open ( so no LoS ). Things that alot of classes don't have to deal with. World PVP / Non Competitive tier lists are always going to be hard to hit 100% right with everyone because it's simply not possible. It's subjected to POV. I was a druid main in 2019 and never lost a pure 1V1 in open world equally gear vs a mage. When I did lose, It's because a gearing difference or purely no CD Druid vs a Full CD Mage. Would be nice to be able to debate with someone and make a video about it.
This list just shows a lack of sweaty WPvP play in Classic. S Tier: Rogue, Druid (depending on skill), and Hunter ---> These classes can completely pick and choose their engagements and also get out of almost any engagement that doesn't favor them at almost any time (hunters not as much, but if they have Engineering and know how to manage space really well they can). They also have very good 1v1 matchups vs all the other classes, especially with engineering. A Tier: Mage, Priest, and Warlock ---> These classes are extremely strong and can win basically ANY 1v1 they want with enough skill (especially Priest and Warlock), they only suffer from not having as much freedom in the open world with movement, stealth, etc. The rest don't really need to be talked about. The others are very gear dependent and matchup dependent.
There is no lacking. I've played Hunter , druid and rogue. In reality, the one who engages should win the fight since he is more prepared. I already explained all my placements and feel you disregard most of it. It will always depend on the eye of the beholder on placements because a War will obviously put mage S tier, while a druid sees mages as free food.
@@ThoGreyClassic You prove my point further. Any druid who sees a mage as "free food" hasn't fought a good mage in the open world... " In reality, the one who engages should win the fight since he is more prepared." Not at all. If a warrior gets the jump on 90% of classes he will still lose... Your explanations for your placements are ignorant. The WPvP tier list follows almost EXACTLY the 1v1 tier list for PvP, with the only changes in placements happening for hunter going up and other classes going down slightly. This game has existed for a long time, and the broader PvP community disagrees with you. Also: "There is no lacking. I've played Hunter , druid and rogue." Doesn't mean anything. Just because you play the classes doesn't mean you main PvP on them, nor does it mean you're any good. My time on Classic is almost 100% in WPvP, its the entire reason I play the game.
@@ThoGreyClassic Even the way you describe the priest placement... They're one of the best PvP classes PERIOD. They're one of the best 1vXers AND they can win almost any 1v1 in the game, regardless of whether or not they get the open or not... Seriously. I just don't think you're deep enough into Classic PvP to actually know...
@@ThoGreyClassic "Mage has mostly ok matchups"???? What? They're favored in EVERY matchup except against Warlock and Shadow Priest. Dude please. B tier? There's also no class in the game who 1vXs better than mage...
I think you are the one smoking if you think Mage and Warlock in Phase 1 with no gear is better than a fkin hunter. Damn, people can't read the title, nor watch the video to understand the points. Attention span of a little kid.
@@ThoGreyClassic phase 1 includes mc my guy? plus blink nova sapper block has no gear requirements my guy? priest? LOL. every serious and sweaty gamer knows that priest is at LEAST a tier. this list blows outside of identifying that rogue is in a tier of it's own. you almost have said the opposite of the truth.
Yeahhh…. Having warlock in B tier is the funniest joke I’ve seen. Can literally fear anything while dots rot your target down. Fear, coil, pet sac, seduce, strong instant cast dots, drain tanking, healthstone, succubus damage is insane… sorry but this list is scuffed.
Drain tanking in wpvp? xd Phase 1 Warlock being stronger than B? Sorry but your arguments are just null. Every class can be having a resume of good points in a vacuum.
@@tcplaya2882 Doesn't work like that, You can't tell things that are all not applicable because in open world, you aren't running around with felhunter all the time, you aren't pet sacc'ing, you aren't succubus'ing all the time. Stop acting WPvP has a perfect scenario every single time. Go watch my duel tier list and you'll understand how I see the classes when things are ''fair''. People act like WPVP is only fair, when as a warlock, good luck when a hunter gets the jump on you, when a rogue jumps on you, when a warrior gets on you. HOW can a class be higher when it gets destroyed by multiple classes itself? Stop acting like a kid and reason with logic. Tell me what happends when a warlock has a felhunter out when a warrior is on him? Those are real situations in pvp. ( also very race dependant, tell an Alliance Warlock to face any Undead Rogue, i'll wait.)
@ lol…. I am an alliance warlock and have fought plenty of undead rogues in world pvp. Sometimes I win, most times I don’t because of will of the forsaken, warriors I absolutely shit on, hunters I haven’t really had a problem with, so since warlocks have one class they are weak against ONLY if they are undead, that puts them in B tier? Makes perfect sense. Also, I only ever use a Succubus because the damage is too good not to. VW is only good for sacrifice since it can’t hold agro for shit and does 0 damage, and felhunter is only good for counterspell.
@@tcplaya2882 I win versus every class, does that make my class S tier? Thats how silly that argument is. You may play versus very bad warriors or rogues? Makes sense.
Frost mage in B tier, seriously??? Opinion and future videos disregarded
Have you even listen to why I put it in B tier or did you skip?
Regardless, people think too highly of mages in open world without understanding what makes Mages very strong in pvp.
@@ThoGreyClassicI disagree man. Its like the biggest point is poly doesn’t work in world pvp (most of the time), because a mob is on you. Im a main mage and you have frost nova, CoC, r1 frostbolts, blink, frostbite, iceblock, etc. I dont even poly someone most of the time. Mages are great in World PvP!
@@timieboy15 Its great versus some of the classes. But realistically, you SHOULD lose versus Druid, Hunter, Shaman, you just go even versus priest ( and thats if you run away). Rogue is a pure skillmatchup in open world, and paladin depends on mana and resets.
Warrior is the easy win and warlock depends on the pet they have.
Like I understand your pov, I m a main hunter and druid and new SP main.
Mages really dont pose a threat except in a bg or duel to me AND no cds from my side
@@ThoGreyClassic A hunter is easy, just get into dead zone. Also you have options vs shamans, but idd druid is hard. Thing is mages can really be gods in world pvp and I think its more important how skilled someone is. Ofc you have counters, every class have them. The thing I just wont put them in a B tier, at least A
I do apologize but I have to strongly disagree with you. Warlocks Mage's and shadow priests are S TIER PLUS when comes to wpvp still appreciate your efforts you doing for the wow community 👍
There is always space to disagree on mate! I personally think phase 1 with limited gear, they are way more manageable imo.
I think you are wrong about shadow priest… they are top tier one v one in classic.
I mean, In a clean 1V1 Shadow priest is indeed very strong ( Duels tier list ). I do think they BECOME better in later phases. But phase 1 bro.. it's not the same as when we are fully decked out.
Shadow Priests are BEASTS to be honest.
Would you say this list is the same if you arbitrarily stopped level 30-40 range to pvp without any desire to hit 60?
HmmmMmmMm, Priest is way lower then, Warrior too. Druid is not that great because you don't have the tools that you would have through gearing / talents.
Hunter probably top of the food chain with Rogue still. Warlock depends on faction but missing death coil sucks, and mage would do better but I do think Open world is not the same as duels.
But hard to say tbh.
Please add timestamps in future videos!
bro it is like 7 classes u can just skip part of the video. mybe if he would do smite god tier list with 100 gods that's a diff story
@@GamingDualities Nah, if you are a content creator and you want more people to view your channel you have to provide timestamps on videos of this length. You alright?
@@davidinman6020 lol if u think today content creation is just about how good content u make u know very little. today is all bout how many people and algorithm are u willing to manipulate with promotional accounts and b0ts
@@davidinman6020 I mean, the issue with timestamps is that it encourages people to skip which drops viewtime considerably.
From the knowledge I have from my first channel, I just know that people skip in tier lists, I don't want to give them even more of a chance to skip.
BUT I understand your pov.
@@ThoGreyClassic Good luck with your channel bud.
All classes I’ve played wpvp very competitively. The absolute best is Frost mage and Feral Druid. I can 1vX consistently with mage and the only hard counter being feral. The ability to down rank for easy shatter procs is broken. If you can’t get your casts off it’s a user error in my opinion.
In phase 1, I would move druid to S Tier if the player is truly skilled, the same can go for frost mage. Also most average players are going to be destroyed by a good warlock. I understand your reasoning behind the ranks, but I think a lot of it comes down to player skill. Some classes have higher skill floors than others, but some classes have a very high skill ceiling with the right player behind the keyboard.
but.....if all players were hypothetically on the SAME skill level then this chart would be accurate, but I do agree with you 100% on skill level as a skilled D class can smoke an S+ every day of the week.
Skill over everything of course. But it's hard to make a tier list counting on the fact that skill can be different.
I had to try to imagine both players being equally skilled, and seeing them at the engager and the engagee.
Will never have a 100% satisfaction rate on a tier list like this.
JIM YOU ARE SO RIGHT TY
Hunter rogue and mage are all s tier shaman and warlock and Druid are A tier everything else is B tier imo
@@adamkelly4308 i respect it, why mate on S tier? I feel like what makes mage very good gets countered if you have a mob on you. Feels also that it loses versus pretty much half of the matchups aswell.
Rated mage higher on my duelist tier list
@@ThoGreyClassic I didn't really consider preventing the poly and the reset by the mage. B tier makes a lot more sense considering that.
Spriest is S tier if you are horde since shaman is only counter. Spriest is unkillable if you are skilled.
Your opinion ok engy is rarely the case.... yes both parties may have engineering, but not both parties are going to have all of the GNOMISH items equipped all the time. Most engineers onoy use grenades. Most players do not have items like netomatic trink, rocket boots equipped. Especially if hey already have plenty of cc or mobility. They are probably roaming around with dmg trinkets. I always have those items on my paladin for wpvp because ai am missing those abilities from my class toolkit. A rogue already has a sprint, so they are not going to use rocket boots or nifty stopwatch... so when they sprint and i sprint with them i get the advantage because they dont expect a pally to have it.
Yeah, I rate Pally pretty high in regards. I'm leveling as an alt/main btw. Although, I still don't know if I'll level a third class or not.
And yes you are right, I try to make it as objective as possible but in general, the one who engages the pvp in wpvp, just wins because likely to be ready to fight too.
Druid S tier
Looks more like this list is made by someone who read about classic pvp, not played it.
@@989896123 you are crazy.
You look like someone that has skipped the video and just saw the placements.
This list is so bad it makes more sense if u literally turn it upside down, the only think he got right is rogue
have you listen to the video or purely skipped?
Also, Hunter / DRuid / shaman upside down? Do you know what open world pvp is?
Yeah I listened. And imo no upside down isn’t correct but it’s closer than what you have. My biggest gripes is with priest and lock being so low. They really should be right below rogue. I know dueling and open world are not the same but they are similar and try telling snutz that warlocks suck. Also in 2019 I mained a dwarf spriest (rank 13) and I sooooo rarely lost a open world 1v1. Not that I’m a PvP got. Spriest is just SO broken. And mages are prob the best 1vX class after rogue, and can escape fairly well with blink and sheep (something that admittedly locks and priests cannot do) I think it really needs to look more like… Rogue, Priest, Mage, Lock, Druid, Hunter, Pally, Sham, Warr
@@kumuqua I mean, you could check my duelist tier list and you'll see how I see these specs mate. I really think World PVP isn't the same as duels.
I respect people that say Mage should be higher, and yes they are good at 1vX, but alot of things need to be right. ( like not having any mobs on the enemy), be fighting in open ( so no LoS ).
Things that alot of classes don't have to deal with.
World PVP / Non Competitive tier lists are always going to be hard to hit 100% right with everyone because it's simply not possible. It's subjected to POV. I was a druid main in 2019 and never lost a pure 1V1 in open world equally gear vs a mage.
When I did lose, It's because a gearing difference or purely no CD Druid vs a Full CD Mage.
Would be nice to be able to debate with someone and make a video about it.
This list just shows a lack of sweaty WPvP play in Classic.
S Tier: Rogue, Druid (depending on skill), and Hunter ---> These classes can completely pick and choose their engagements and also get out of almost any engagement that doesn't favor them at almost any time (hunters not as much, but if they have Engineering and know how to manage space really well they can). They also have very good 1v1 matchups vs all the other classes, especially with engineering.
A Tier: Mage, Priest, and Warlock ---> These classes are extremely strong and can win basically ANY 1v1 they want with enough skill (especially Priest and Warlock), they only suffer from not having as much freedom in the open world with movement, stealth, etc.
The rest don't really need to be talked about. The others are very gear dependent and matchup dependent.
There is no lacking. I've played Hunter , druid and rogue. In reality, the one who engages should win the fight since he is more prepared.
I already explained all my placements and feel you disregard most of it.
It will always depend on the eye of the beholder on placements because a War will obviously put mage S tier, while a druid sees mages as free food.
@@ThoGreyClassic You prove my point further. Any druid who sees a mage as "free food" hasn't fought a good mage in the open world... " In reality, the one who engages should win the fight since he is more prepared." Not at all. If a warrior gets the jump on 90% of classes he will still lose... Your explanations for your placements are ignorant. The WPvP tier list follows almost EXACTLY the 1v1 tier list for PvP, with the only changes in placements happening for hunter going up and other classes going down slightly. This game has existed for a long time, and the broader PvP community disagrees with you. Also: "There is no lacking. I've played Hunter , druid and rogue." Doesn't mean anything. Just because you play the classes doesn't mean you main PvP on them, nor does it mean you're any good. My time on Classic is almost 100% in WPvP, its the entire reason I play the game.
@@ThoGreyClassic Even the way you describe the priest placement... They're one of the best PvP classes PERIOD. They're one of the best 1vXers AND they can win almost any 1v1 in the game, regardless of whether or not they get the open or not... Seriously. I just don't think you're deep enough into Classic PvP to actually know...
@@ThoGreyClassic "Mage has mostly ok matchups"???? What? They're favored in EVERY matchup except against Warlock and Shadow Priest. Dude please. B tier? There's also no class in the game who 1vXs better than mage...
@@themasterkey3 stop writing a whole bible to me, Druid wins vs a mage. There is no debate
U must have a chicken filet brain
🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
hunter s? mage and warlock b? what is this guy smoking? i give this list C-
I think you are the one smoking if you think Mage and Warlock in Phase 1 with no gear is better than a fkin hunter.
Damn, people can't read the title, nor watch the video to understand the points. Attention span of a little kid.
@@ThoGreyClassic phase 1 includes mc my guy? plus blink nova sapper block has no gear requirements my guy? priest? LOL. every serious and sweaty gamer knows that priest is at LEAST a tier. this list blows outside of identifying that rogue is in a tier of it's own. you almost have said the opposite of the truth.
@@Wduckplay crazy.
My god, how wrong are you xD
Phase 1. If you think the gearing doens't matter, then you are clueless.
Yeahhh…. Having warlock in B tier is the funniest joke I’ve seen. Can literally fear anything while dots rot your target down. Fear, coil, pet sac, seduce, strong instant cast dots, drain tanking, healthstone, succubus damage is insane… sorry but this list is scuffed.
Drain tanking in wpvp? xd
Phase 1 Warlock being stronger than B?
Sorry but your arguments are just null. Every class can be having a resume of good points in a vacuum.
@@ThoGreyClassic literally everybody in this comment section disagrees with you. Its okay to be wrong.
@@tcplaya2882 Doesn't work like that, You can't tell things that are all not applicable because in open world, you aren't running around with felhunter all the time, you aren't pet sacc'ing, you aren't succubus'ing all the time. Stop acting WPvP has a perfect scenario every single time. Go watch my duel tier list and you'll understand how I see the classes when things are ''fair''.
People act like WPVP is only fair, when as a warlock, good luck when a hunter gets the jump on you, when a rogue jumps on you, when a warrior gets on you.
HOW can a class be higher when it gets destroyed by multiple classes itself? Stop acting like a kid and reason with logic.
Tell me what happends when a warlock has a felhunter out when a warrior is on him? Those are real situations in pvp.
( also very race dependant, tell an Alliance Warlock to face any Undead Rogue, i'll wait.)
@ lol…. I am an alliance warlock and have fought plenty of undead rogues in world pvp. Sometimes I win, most times I don’t because of will of the forsaken, warriors I absolutely shit on, hunters I haven’t really had a problem with, so since warlocks have one class they are weak against ONLY if they are undead, that puts them in B tier? Makes perfect sense. Also, I only ever use a Succubus because the damage is too good not to. VW is only good for sacrifice since it can’t hold agro for shit and does 0 damage, and felhunter is only good for counterspell.
@@tcplaya2882 I win versus every class, does that make my class S tier? Thats how silly that argument is. You may play versus very bad warriors or rogues? Makes sense.