This is the first race where ive actually sometimes chose liquid stream over max and it was entirely the cast they had but dedinitely emphasis on dratty
I bricked 1 key intentionanally in 8 years... the guy invited me and kicked me to invite the same exact spec with 30 more points on rio. He did the same thing to another guy in the group before me.... so i tried and logged my main, signed for this fall 27 and guess what? he kicked the third person in 2 minuts to invite me , ofc. So yeah i left the group without saying a word after he put in his key, and i felt like Batman, you don't need to thank me... change my mind.
i am 100% with dorki about the pings! its such a helpful thing in general and playing classic hc without it after being used to having it in retail feels like im missing a leg.
Blizz should give the same amount of crests for finishing AND depleting the key, that way big part of the leavers in lower keys wouldn't leave. But the main question is for Dratnos: where's the dino pillow? 🤔
Yep pretty much. Blizzards system is the reason people are incentivized to leave when they think the key won’t be timed. I can’t see any issue with still getting a paltry 12 crests if you miss the timer
One of the most fun things I've ever done in wow was the 30 man tank nyalotha runs on heroic where every tank just equipped as much corruption as they could with unlimited stacks of twilight dev and just blasting and having fun. Everyone had a tank alt at that time cus it was just fun to tank in general, we didnt have this tank drought where people would wait half an hour for a tank to show up to keys. Everyone who disliked the last patch of bfa was cus of the cloak grind but aside from that one thing the last patch of BFA was the most fun wow has been in a long time.
You forget the whole first half of the patch that sucked. No corruption vendor meant tour fate was left to RNG. The patch only became fun when you could target corruptions
8.0 was actually crazy though for World PvP you turned War Mode on for the extra Azerite and did the Mine World Quests and it was a straight up warzone and it was insane fun.
I remember whenever a chest would drop and players from both factions would just swarm like flies to the location, there were actual large-scale battles happening in the open world that they haven't really replicated since then.
Not sure if meme-ing but it's because Echo cheated to win Amirdrassil raid. TLDR is Echo used a script to basically automate one of the private auras on Fyrakk. This specific mechanic was relatively difficult and even a hundred pulls in, other guilds were having early wipes because of it. Echo used an edited game file to completely bypass this issue and then immediately after winning, they gave orders to all their raiders to delete the file and in post raid interviews, they pretended like they had to deal with the private auras the same way Liquid did. It's pretty clear Liquid would have won that race if Echo hadn't cheated because on reclears, it took Echo an irregularly long time to reclear Fyrakk but no one was paying attention to reclear times because the race was over.
@@khoitrieubro can they win anything legit these days? Gifted two wins because of nerfs and then literally fucking hack the game? And then they go around beating their chest? So glad they got BODIED this entire last tier.
I never thought of this, but final patch of BFA (corruption) is similar to PoE. All classes are different, but there is a external power that ALL classes have access to. It helps with balance because you can do what others do...
Legion was just PEAK WoW. Best story for lore nerds. Best class fantasy for rpg enjoyers. Super fast schedule. Suramar was the best endgame zone ever added. People complained about AP and legendaries, but honestly for an avg player it really never mattered. Being a midcore player in the Legion was THE best time to play WoW.
100% agree, but I've gotta be really real... I had almost as much fun in DF. Ik that sounds crazy but the zones in DF were so damn good & full of personality (ESPECIALLY compared to SL), the massive reworks for flying, professions, outdoor content, UI, etc. were an incredible breath of fresh air, and maybe most importantly... the most toxic WoW anti-fans weren't playing AT ALL for the vast majority of the expansion. It just felt so nice to log on.
@@drageras i do think they should do a similar expansion to Legion but with the warband system in place, even making things like ap account wide. Having bad luck legendary vendors and so on.
@@wm-wl8wsonly for players that super tryhard the game and believe they must be BiS to enjoy the game. The thing about legion was it was pre classic. All types of players enjoyed it. Honestly the "must be optimal" mindset has sucked out so much fun from the game.
@@wm-wl8ws the launch was bad, but the content was still amazing. they have made mistakes with legion but they most likely wouldnt repeat them if they were to bring it back.
reddit taught me that if people say they were unfairly banned, they are lying. Majority of the time you check the comments, and they admit they did it and called the groups slurs.
The recent(ish) revelation that Echo used special weakauras to break Blizz's private aura settings on Fyrrak. Basically they got the kill using WAs that blatantly break blizzs terms of service.
Ngl the felcycle hunt has been keeping me engaged for the last few weeks. Not for everyone for sure, but as my first "secret" it's been a blast engaging with WoW in a different way
"how do we get viewers off of your channel and onto ours?" honestly the RWF coverage was really frustrating because it constantly took focus *away* from the race. it felt like they were recording a podcast while the RWF happened to be going on in the background. i lost track of the amount of times i muted the official TL stream because the casters were doing a transmog contest or talking about some completely random subject *while pulls are happening in the background*. maybe once an hour, for all of five minutes, we were listening to actual raid comms and the casters were talking about what was happening on screen. so yeah, once i realized you were streaming the entire race with comms i never went back.
It's good to have the option tho. Not everyone is interested in watching 100 pulls where nothing new really happens. It's not like you're gonna miss anything since the casters tune in plenty and are most likely getting signaled by production if something is popping off in the fight while they're yapping
@@Jaybeezt13 if it was a better balance i'd agree, but while watching live it felt like damn near 80% of the time they were just chatting amongst themselves or barely acknowledging the action going on behind them. i understand it's not gonna be all action all the time, but it's definitely a trend with livecasters (definitely not just TL) acting like podcasters instead of casting the event.
For the first season in years, i quit within a month. Haven't unsubbed in years. M+ was the least fun possibly ever. Everything once you to a 12 was below garbage. This patch shows very clearly that the devs dont play the game. Whoever thought a stun should just have everything recasting in a few seconds does not play m+.
Same. Been an avid m+ player since legion and this season SUCKS. My entire friends list and guild is struggling to find motivation to even do weekly vault keys. What I find interesting is each individual change they made can be looked at independently and can be seen as positive. But when you put it all together the experience in m+ is TERRIBLE. And by the way, never in this history of wow has it been negative for tanks and healers to be strong. Stop listening to JBs neckbeard takes, that guy is an idiot.
Let us pause keys to replace leavers. The dungeon already goes non-interactive on completion, so technically it can be done. Would just have to pause cooldowns as well.
I remember looting the Pyro bracers on my fire mage doing a trial of valor normal run 2 weeks before antorus came out. For weeks I was doing every difficulty of current and old raids, all mythic 0's, world quests etc. Got my avengers shield leg legendary on my prot pally doing a eoa key. Frost dk helm a week before it got nerfed from a halls of valor, but got the empower rune weapon ring the next week from vault of the wardens. The legendary system without the vendor was so frustrating but felt so good when you would get a good legendary.
My dead last Shadow Priest legendary was the belt. The one that enabled the spec to not overcap its cooldowns and let them properly use a 60s rotation.
@@destrmathbig oof. I was gonna say I had a hard time with my SPriest looting Sephuz ring as dead last drop, but not getting the belt must’ve been a big downer.
Please give keys 3 charges before depletion. It can't hurt the game... As a tank you can practice pulls, dps can get used to a route, you can test new stuff in a premade... Instead as it is right now, tank tries a new pull (lets say in high NW key), you wipe with bloodlust and cds and it's a gg gl next.
Same man, got to 2990 io and can’t even get groups to push further. To reroll meta spec im looking at 90 dungeons. Hard to find people to make a push group with. Mythic raid being locked to groups I can’t put it either… I don’t have 6 hours a week of time I can set aside. I need to be able to log on and off when I want to. Guess wow isn’t for me anymore
@@jacobmitchell9227Sounds like you got your money worth if you made it that far. I just play a new character when I get bored, no need to rush to the same ilvl it’s all getting replaced in the next patch
Ngl usually m+ keeps me playing throughout the whole season after I get KSH cus I usually gear alts and help people/pugs out trying to earn KSM or KSH but m+ this season has just been the most unfun experience its been in a while... Like even trying to pug keys around KSM/KSH range is miserable and annoying 90% of the time and not fun.
Blizz should force you to choose if this group is supposed to be a completion or a time it key. That would already somewhat fix the expectation of people in keys
I'm sure unpopular opinion, but for me 7.0 Legion was an F tier patch. I've been playing the game for 20 years and it's the only time that I've ever unsubed from the game due to being disappointed with the game. I had finally climbed the ladder and made it into top 100 raiding guids... and then my character got two worthless legendaries. That put me on perma bench, and I tried applying to other good guilds and none would take me because I didn't hit good legendaries. I ended up just quitting because the patch's RNG system basically said "you don't get to play the game in challenging content". Legion Legendaries, as they were at launch, is the single worst thing to ever exist in World of Warcraft, and it's not close. If they brought it back exactly as is in a hypothetical 12.0 Midnight patch, the expansion would be dead on arrival no matter how good the rest of it was.
2:26:00 "i do think the hero talents have gone really well. They're cool, they've been getting good tuning, there's a lot of fun game play..." meanwhile, havoc DHs are about to disable glide and jump off a cliff with blizzard cheering them on
I know you said hero talents and not the DF talents, but priests having almost the same general talent tree that they had in the first itteration of Dragonflight beta is absolutely ridiculous as well. They added 3 new talents to replace the mindgames stuff, other than that it has never been changed since the first day of DF beta.
It's hilarious to watch Max praise every patch in which they won the RWF and essentially talk shit about every patch they lost (Legion excluded because they were no competition back then).
I wish I played this game during Legion. I started at the end of BFA but Legion seemed so sick. Here’s to hoping for a Legion remix so I can feel what it was like.
legion was dope af but u only knew once it was over, nowadays i regret taking a break on tomb of sargeras tier, at the time it just felt like a normal break like i do every few tiers
Legion wasnt that great, and was the start of WoWs dark history (the most alt unfriendlyness and 3 expansions in a row of ap grinds). I think people enjoyed it because it followed WoD where there was legitimately nothing to do. The end of Legion where you could wear 3 legos was fun tho.
Biggest problem with covenants is the dramatic impact to performance and gameplay if you pick the wrong thing. The difference between races in wow is like 1% at most. The differences in covenants were crazy. And we all rightfully had 0 faith in blizzards ability to tune them
I love this podcast, and it is one of my top 3 watched for the year. If the bonus episode was accessible via youtube using the members program, I'd 100% pay for it, but the fact that I'd need to use a different website to subscribe for the bonus content is enough for me not to bother. Worth thinking about :)
I don't know if it would actually end up being good stream content but I would absolutely watch Max play through the WC3 campaign since the recent fix/update.
There are 4 reasons you join a key: score, end of dungeon loot, vault or crests. Lets say you are in a +9 and you rack up 13 deaths in the first 2 pulls of the dungeon. Why would you stay? You will not do it in time, so no score, almost no crests and at that key level a 610 ilvl gear from the chest is 95% of the time useless for everyone. And if the lead just wants a dungeon to be finished, I think it should be advertised as such (completion). By removing the deplete mechanic, all of these problems will be solved.
The Visions of N'Zoth patch in Tol'Dagor Prison Dungeon I was Tanking as Vengeance DH and the Worgen boss where he stuns you and runs down the hall opening cells. Right before the Stun I Meta massively boosting my Max HP a Twilight Devastation proc happened as I was getting stunned. Twilight Devs Damage scaled of your Max HP. Well when the proc happened the boss ran with Twilight Dev staying in the beam the whole Beams movement getting crit multiple times and was deleted lol it was really funny.
There needs to be a vote to disband option for those early wipe scenarios. Some people are eternal optimist type players. There are other players are eternally efficient and want to maximize their time. Vote to disband will allow players not to get caught up in a ban wave unfairly.
Some of the BfA Essences were amazing. At least as Healers. Apart from some passive DPS bonuses, we had Well of Existence which stored Healing up to your own max HP and when an ally dropped below 30% (Health% depended on Essence Rank) it would take Healing from the Well and bump it into that injured player. It also worked with HoTs so Rejuvs, Riptide, Renews and other spells were amazing as they would trigger Well whenever needed as a kind of Smart Heal. We also had Vitality Conduit where if I healed a person the Essence would transfer HP to the target from an ally nearby and give that ally an absorb. So with a Druid's Rejuvs ticking there would be a lot of small absorbs. The Essence Major effect would also transfer Health to whoever you used it on which would override Necrotic so a Healing Immune tank could still be Healed with that Essence. There were some Essences that you just kept because they were "the best" but you could also swap some Major and Minor essences depending on if you needed extra mana or extra throughput or some extra damage! If they had just enabled a system to get Essences othr than their one source (I knew I would not be optimal without it but over my dead body I spent time in Arena for Blood-essence...) it would have been really great.
I don't usually leave until it becomes apparent it's 100% untimeable. But I was in discord with my buddy who basically only pvp's (we get him portals every season 2600+ IO or w/e) and he just let it slip that he could never get invites as a warlock so he just started bricking all the keys he could get into. ??????. Dude's out there bricking the keys of people who were nice enough to invite him lol. moral of the story, asshats exist and it's unfortunate lol.
Legion classic comes out and the mage tower artifact appearances become an account-wide achievement everyone would end up playing classic legion. Just so they can get the appearances they missed when they were either more casual at the game, get a chance to play classes they weren't able to level up during that time cus 110 was level cap.
2:51:47 I'm a paramedic and highly effective teams calmly communicate during stressful situations, it is not like tv where everyone is yelling and screaming. That doesn't work, and it kills people.
38:00 Story time: Early this season my guild was doing a Heroic clear for Nerub-ar Palace and explicitly stated in LFG "discord required, guild run, recruiting mythic raid". Warrior joins on Broodtwister, post discord link, we wait, post again, we wait, PM warrior and get "I don't join comms for heroic clears." Me: Cool.. well this is a recruitment run you don't have to talk but we want people to get a feel for our environment, the purpose is to recruit. Warrior: Why would I join comms? Heroic is easy, you don't need them. it's you're problem if you don't know the fights. Me: Were recruiting, that the purpose of this run... Warrior: Why would I join your guild if you cant even do heroic without comms?" At this point I'm over it. We're 8/8, we know the fights, I don't know what this guy is going on about. I just kick him. He pulls boss and starts harassing me in PMs. I just hear "what an asshole" followed by "GO GO GO GO, kill the boss I wanna see if he gets a zero parse on logs." Boss goes down easy. Dude flips out because he's trying to find a guild and now he has a super shitty average parse for that boss. Moral of the story: Win in spite of jackasses like this, don't lose because of them.
3 people who has promoted that people should leave keys if they feel like something goes wrong. Are now finding out that blizzard does not like that. But yes the banning is probably a very low number
Return to Kara to me is the best wow patch of all time. Not only was Legion just GOATed anyway but that mega dungeon was the best dungeon content ever added in WoW imo.
Imagine the following scenario: You have 1) a host who pretty much does only high M+ keys, 2) a host who casts the MDI for several years now and 3) a host who is the reigning RWF champion (meaning he enjoys competitive WoW the most) and you do a 3-hour-podcast. And then ... instead of talking about MDI Globals (1 of 3 competitive events of the season), you do a patch ranking Oo The MDI really needs changes - because it seems no one seems to care about it.
I remember reading something a while back that players that were not top rated but good enough to get into +12 easily were intentionally joining 12s or higher and leaving after the key started to keep the season title rating down. Blizzard probably is not banning people for leaving keys after the first pull like 8 or 10 times a week. They are banning people who are leaving keys like hundreds of times a week.
Not that Max would see this, But i got into Gundam Model kits because I also couldn't find a game to get sucked into. it's actually really nice, and it's a good way to get away from a screen, while keeping my ADHD engaged
Later Ce guilds not needing to test dmg, I have a point that y’all missed. Often times we have so much more dmg in our kills that we are able to kill a boss before a major mechanic check. For example fyrakk, you could skip multiple of the blazed line sets with your seeds out if you just did more dmg. Considering those line sets were the hardest mechanical part of the boss, being able to skip 1 or 2 of them was huge value
2:55:25 Max is referring to Colombian Footballer/soccer player Andres Escobar, who scored an own-goal at the World Cup in 1994 and was murdered about a week after he returned to his home country. There's an ESPN 30 for 30 about him and Pablo Escobar that is very interesting.
Omg! N’Zoth is one of the best bosses they ever made! Love that fight and it’s the one boss I had the most fun doing ever and I’ve played since vanilla release
ya so all of ragnaros server is banned for sure, i think ive had like 10 keys this season where a rag player just leaves within 3 mins of the key starting.
1:04:18 Ironically this is a positive drawing point of the most popular Classic+ vanilla server going on. People like having salv and windfury who would have thought.
Tier list is telling me AP grind=good, and I do kinda agree. Is it nice not feeling you have to play and grind for power? Yes. However, there feels like there is nothing to do outside M+ and raids for people who only focus on those aspects. For a lot of people, rep and world quests/events are not fun, and it gives nothing other than cosmetic rewards such as mounts or tiltes. Give us a new AP grind, with the knowledge of how to implement it from Legion/BFA
It boggles my mind that Corruption was never re-done/did not become an evergreen feature. It was clearly inspired by Diablo/hack and slash gearing and it made so much sense for WoW to spice up loot beyond having 4 stats to care about (which is really not enough). I really don't get why they don't try it again it was the only patch in WoW history where I cared about loot to that extent and could remember the name of the affixes and stuff I was looking for.
I wouldn't be worried about false detection in the long term. If Blizz does some kind of mass ban and people wrongfully get targeted the community will eat em alive
To the engineering manager from Pateron Q: You are possibly way too focused on your "role" of being a manager and putting too much emphasis on "evaluation" processes and procedures, which is why you are asking this question. In order to not have this question, a manager needs to be heavily involved with the production that the team is doing. Really being there is what makes you aware of who is doing what and it becomes painfully obvious. As an engineer with 20 years of experience, the clueless absentee managers trying to find a "process", while being completely un-involved in any of the problem solving and general business we are doing, is among the most frustrating things about the industry, and there's way too many of these.
Visions of Nzoth is probably the most polarizing patch of the entire game. Ya'll put it at S+ in a tier of it's own, I'd put it at C or potentially even F. The game was straight up pay to win for a small period of time, all of the issues with corruption were behind a grind even after they fixed the initial problems. You were permanently behind on corruption resistance because it wasn't BoA. They refused to make the essences from the previous patch BoA. You either logged in and played your main and had a really fun time, or you logged in and saw the 40-50 hours of grinding required to play your alt and closed the game. And RE - Classic Legion. There is no good way for them to release it. It'll be almost 3 years since they've removed affixes from keystones that have impact from a weekly rotation and people will hate that feeling going back. There were massive issues with AP grinding, and farming throughout the entire expansion that didn't start to clear up until near the end. There were massive imbalances that weren't properly identified because we didn't optimize the game like we do today, there were massive systemic changes to AP acquisition and subsystems IE artifact knowledge wasn't always server wide, no discounting and progression for alternative specs of the same class, soft requirement caps to progress through bosses ect. To make Legion classic be enjoyable by the majority of players, you have to massively nerf this. Most people want to log in and do hoodrat stuff with their friends for a few hours a week. But then you're going to alienate the people who want to come in and spend 20-30 hours into a game to make their mains extremely powerful. I honestly hope they don't do it, not because I don't love the game. But I know for a fact if I were to try and go back to it those nostalgia goggles will hurt big time. There's so much shit in Legion that got improved on within the last 10 years. There's a ton of things in Legion that are gonna age like Milk, and it's just gonna get more sour with more QoL changes in retail.
Quit Legion week 4 after my guild was half way through Mythic and I had TWO! functionally bricked characters in a row due to legendary "soft"cap. I'll never accept any argument that they made the right call on that system in 7.0. (Fire Mage)
I absolutely remember my first Legion legendary At the time I was playing the game with an IRL friend that probably remembers it too because I literally took my phone to call him and be like "IT DROPPED OMG" on phone
Had a Healer dying 4 times on first pull in ara-kara 10 and leaving. if you think about that, that just may be that player's default behavior, as in trying a key, its not going well, imma try join another ara kara 10 until i get this pull right. he got to know he's grieffing the group, but it's just irrelevant to him. that kind of behavior should be sanctioned. I don't really think people are joining keys with sole purpose to intentionally brick it, except if it's targeted. you spoke about toxicity in upper-to-higher brackets rising up until a point but i personally think that, unless the group leader deliberately wrong you in some way, which why would it happen before the key actually starts, it's very rare and actually really hard to do it. you'd have to sit and keep refreshing until you find that leader again listing his key. i mean... i dont even think theres one person per realm who'd engage into such actions.
Wait "Not in a relationship." ???? When did this happen? I"m sorry if its old news but I don't follow to know their every detail. Delve tip of the day: For underwater delves get yourself draenic underwater breathing elixirs that last an hour. pop one of those, and can just use the air bubbles for speed ups. Discovered this from a random tips and tricks vid I found, and its been life changing.
All of the discussion of the troll behavior in mythic is why I do delves lol. Even though I know it's pretty rare, I just hate the idea of players I don't know being able to influence my gearing.
Back in cata, people hated it initially because they made it easier for newer players and took away what made vanilla wow, feel like wow. Classic should have never gone past wotlk at the furthest. For legion, people loved legion because of all the different cosmetic hunts, on top of goated content. Legion is 100% all S tier.
Forgot to mention, unless I missed it, that cross faction and the Creation Catalyst were added to 9.2 EDIT: And all of the great changes to Torghast! Like the Box of Many Things!
The one who carried main channel stream was Dratnos. His charisma and commentary are just too good and people, i think, liked it a lot.
This is the first race where ive actually sometimes chose liquid stream over max and it was entirely the cast they had but dedinitely emphasis on dratty
I bricked 1 key intentionanally in 8 years... the guy invited me and kicked me to invite the same exact spec with 30 more points on rio. He did the same thing to another guy in the group before me.... so i tried and logged my main, signed for this fall 27 and guess what? he kicked the third person in 2 minuts to invite me , ofc. So yeah i left the group without saying a word after he put in his key, and i felt like Batman, you don't need to thank me... change my mind.
That's petty as fuck, I love it.
Justice was served.
Hero
Not the hero we deserved, but one we needed
Max randomly asking dorki did u go to school was completely unhinged
i am 100% with dorki about the pings! its such a helpful thing in general and playing classic hc without it after being used to having it in retail feels like im missing a leg.
Max doing dog yoga while waiting for keys would be 10/10 content
Dorki's icon is so chill
He's just a chill cat.
Blizz should give the same amount of crests for finishing AND depleting the key, that way big part of the leavers in lower keys wouldn't leave. But the main question is for Dratnos: where's the dino pillow? 🤔
He traded it for a ring to get Harbinger of the Gilded for sure
@@FreggeLock100% not worth it, pillow was legendary 😅
Yep pretty much. Blizzards system is the reason people are incentivized to leave when they think the key won’t be timed. I can’t see any issue with still getting a paltry 12 crests if you miss the timer
3 hours ? Boys giving us free content on this thanksgiving!
One of the most fun things I've ever done in wow was the 30 man tank nyalotha runs on heroic where every tank just equipped as much corruption as they could with unlimited stacks of twilight dev and just blasting and having fun. Everyone had a tank alt at that time cus it was just fun to tank in general, we didnt have this tank drought where people would wait half an hour for a tank to show up to keys. Everyone who disliked the last patch of bfa was cus of the cloak grind but aside from that one thing the last patch of BFA was the most fun wow has been in a long time.
Bro 30 tanks nylotha all with twilight dev was actually the most fun I had on wow since timeless isle.
tanks were also crazy fun in dragonflight, but blizzard doesnt want tanks to have power for some reason.
You forget the whole first half of the patch that sucked. No corruption vendor meant tour fate was left to RNG. The patch only became fun when you could target corruptions
8.0 was actually crazy though for World PvP you turned War Mode on for the extra Azerite and did the Mine World Quests and it was a straight up warzone and it was insane fun.
I remember whenever a chest would drop and players from both factions would just swarm like flies to the location, there were actual large-scale battles happening in the open world that they haven't really replicated since then.
2:17:55 does anyone know what recent information he is talking about?
Lus.sneak
I tried to find out and couldn't find anything
Im assuming hes talking about how close fyrakk was and the fact that Echo used an external script to deal with one of the harder mechanics
Not sure if meme-ing but it's because Echo cheated to win Amirdrassil raid. TLDR is Echo used a script to basically automate one of the private auras on Fyrakk. This specific mechanic was relatively difficult and even a hundred pulls in, other guilds were having early wipes because of it. Echo used an edited game file to completely bypass this issue and then immediately after winning, they gave orders to all their raiders to delete the file and in post raid interviews, they pretended like they had to deal with the private auras the same way Liquid did. It's pretty clear Liquid would have won that race if Echo hadn't cheated because on reclears, it took Echo an irregularly long time to reclear Fyrakk but no one was paying attention to reclear times because the race was over.
@@khoitrieubro can they win anything legit these days? Gifted two wins because of nerfs and then literally fucking hack the game? And then they go around beating their chest? So glad they got BODIED this entire last tier.
Damn when Dorki brought up Jeff Nippard that literally blew my mind
I never thought of this, but final patch of BFA (corruption) is similar to PoE. All classes are different, but there is a external power that ALL classes have access to. It helps with balance because you can do what others do...
Not perfect but very fun idd
Not expecting the Jeff Nippard shoutout from Dorki but I am all for it
Legion was just PEAK WoW. Best story for lore nerds. Best class fantasy for rpg enjoyers. Super fast schedule. Suramar was the best endgame zone ever added.
People complained about AP and legendaries, but honestly for an avg player it really never mattered. Being a midcore player in the Legion was THE best time to play WoW.
100% agree, but I've gotta be really real... I had almost as much fun in DF.
Ik that sounds crazy but the zones in DF were so damn good & full of personality (ESPECIALLY compared to SL), the massive reworks for flying, professions, outdoor content, UI, etc. were an incredible breath of fresh air, and maybe most importantly... the most toxic WoW anti-fans weren't playing AT ALL for the vast majority of the expansion.
It just felt so nice to log on.
@@drageras i do think they should do a similar expansion to Legion but with the warband system in place, even making things like ap account wide. Having bad luck legendary vendors and so on.
L take, legion launch was one of the worst patches in the game and AP / legendary acquisition was utter garbage
@@wm-wl8wsonly for players that super tryhard the game and believe they must be BiS to enjoy the game. The thing about legion was it was pre classic. All types of players enjoyed it. Honestly the "must be optimal" mindset has sucked out so much fun from the game.
@@wm-wl8ws the launch was bad, but the content was still amazing. they have made mistakes with legion but they most likely wouldnt repeat them if they were to bring it back.
reddit taught me that if people say they were unfairly banned, they are lying. Majority of the time you check the comments, and they admit they did it and called the groups slurs.
Can someone explain z what was Max talking about when they mentioned world first in Amirdrasil?
The recent(ish) revelation that Echo used special weakauras to break Blizz's private aura settings on Fyrrak. Basically they got the kill using WAs that blatantly break blizzs terms of service.
Ngl the felcycle hunt has been keeping me engaged for the last few weeks. Not for everyone for sure, but as my first "secret" it's been a blast engaging with WoW in a different way
"how do we get viewers off of your channel and onto ours?"
honestly the RWF coverage was really frustrating because it constantly took focus *away* from the race. it felt like they were recording a podcast while the RWF happened to be going on in the background.
i lost track of the amount of times i muted the official TL stream because the casters were doing a transmog contest or talking about some completely random subject *while pulls are happening in the background*. maybe once an hour, for all of five minutes, we were listening to actual raid comms and the casters were talking about what was happening on screen. so yeah, once i realized you were streaming the entire race with comms i never went back.
It's good to have the option tho. Not everyone is interested in watching 100 pulls where nothing new really happens. It's not like you're gonna miss anything since the casters tune in plenty and are most likely getting signaled by production if something is popping off in the fight while they're yapping
@@Jaybeezt13 if it was a better balance i'd agree, but while watching live it felt like damn near 80% of the time they were just chatting amongst themselves or barely acknowledging the action going on behind them.
i understand it's not gonna be all action all the time, but it's definitely a trend with livecasters (definitely not just TL) acting like podcasters instead of casting the event.
I'll be playing Legion Classic just to remember what it felt like to play Affliction in its prime, before they fucking destroyed it.
Id be more inclined to say that MoP would br considered the start of retail since that's when the talent system got changed so drastically.
For the first season in years, i quit within a month. Haven't unsubbed in years. M+ was the least fun possibly ever. Everything once you to a 12 was below garbage. This patch shows very clearly that the devs dont play the game. Whoever thought a stun should just have everything recasting in a few seconds does not play m+.
Same. Been an avid m+ player since legion and this season SUCKS. My entire friends list and guild is struggling to find motivation to even do weekly vault keys.
What I find interesting is each individual change they made can be looked at independently and can be seen as positive. But when you put it all together the experience in m+ is TERRIBLE.
And by the way, never in this history of wow has it been negative for tanks and healers to be strong. Stop listening to JBs neckbeard takes, that guy is an idiot.
Let us pause keys to replace leavers. The dungeon already goes non-interactive on completion, so technically it can be done. Would just have to pause cooldowns as well.
NGL. I’d Watch Dratty PoE. His way of explaining just works and the chill vibe is what people want in arpgs
I remember looting the Pyro bracers on my fire mage doing a trial of valor normal run 2 weeks before antorus came out. For weeks I was doing every difficulty of current and old raids, all mythic 0's, world quests etc. Got my avengers shield leg legendary on my prot pally doing a eoa key. Frost dk helm a week before it got nerfed from a halls of valor, but got the empower rune weapon ring the next week from vault of the wardens. The legendary system without the vendor was so frustrating but felt so good when you would get a good legendary.
My dead last Shadow Priest legendary was the belt.
The one that enabled the spec to not overcap its cooldowns and let them properly use a 60s rotation.
Shaman ring from weekly. IFE for my Boomie at the Valajar emmissary. Keg from Darkheart Thicket. Pala legs from Valsharah Emmissary. It was so peak.
@@destrmathbig oof.
I was gonna say I had a hard time with my SPriest looting Sephuz ring as dead last drop, but not getting the belt must’ve been a big downer.
@@destrmathmy frost mages last legendary was bracers :(
people that demand PI and leave dungeons also listen to the bench podcast
Please give keys 3 charges before depletion. It can't hurt the game... As a tank you can practice pulls, dps can get used to a route, you can test new stuff in a premade... Instead as it is right now, tank tries a new pull (lets say in high NW key), you wipe with bloodlust and cds and it's a gg gl next.
For me, this expansion started STRONG. I was having fun. It ended up being too fractured, too drawn apart and I'm ready to move on.
Same man, got to 2990 io and can’t even get groups to push further. To reroll meta spec im looking at 90 dungeons. Hard to find people to make a push group with. Mythic raid being locked to groups I can’t put it either… I don’t have 6 hours a week of time I can set aside. I need to be able to log on and off when I want to. Guess wow isn’t for me anymore
@@jacobmitchell9227Sounds like you got your money worth if you made it that far. I just play a new character when I get bored, no need to rush to the same ilvl it’s all getting replaced in the next patch
Ngl usually m+ keeps me playing throughout the whole season after I get KSH cus I usually gear alts and help people/pugs out trying to earn KSM or KSH but m+ this season has just been the most unfun experience its been in a while... Like even trying to pug keys around KSM/KSH range is miserable and annoying 90% of the time and not fun.
I did all I wanted in S1 and am now chilling in classic relaunch and waiting for S2, so far TWW was quite good imo
You're not supposed to play the patch the entire duration
Blizz should force you to choose if this group is supposed to be a completion or a time it key. That would already somewhat fix the expectation of people in keys
I'm sure unpopular opinion, but for me 7.0 Legion was an F tier patch. I've been playing the game for 20 years and it's the only time that I've ever unsubed from the game due to being disappointed with the game. I had finally climbed the ladder and made it into top 100 raiding guids... and then my character got two worthless legendaries. That put me on perma bench, and I tried applying to other good guilds and none would take me because I didn't hit good legendaries. I ended up just quitting because the patch's RNG system basically said "you don't get to play the game in challenging content".
Legion Legendaries, as they were at launch, is the single worst thing to ever exist in World of Warcraft, and it's not close. If they brought it back exactly as is in a hypothetical 12.0 Midnight patch, the expansion would be dead on arrival no matter how good the rest of it was.
To be honest I skipped the whole tierlist and listened to everything else, good content indeed this week
2:26:00 "i do think the hero talents have gone really well. They're cool, they've been getting good tuning, there's a lot of fun game play..."
meanwhile, havoc DHs are about to disable glide and jump off a cliff with blizzard cheering them on
I know you said hero talents and not the DF talents, but priests having almost the same general talent tree that they had in the first itteration of Dragonflight beta is absolutely ridiculous as well.
They added 3 new talents to replace the mindgames stuff, other than that it has never been changed since the first day of DF beta.
It's hilarious to watch Max praise every patch in which they won the RWF and essentially talk shit about every patch they lost (Legion excluded because they were no competition back then).
I wish I played this game during Legion. I started at the end of BFA but Legion seemed so sick. Here’s to hoping for a Legion remix so I can feel what it was like.
honestly it really was, didnt realise it at the time but thats the best the game has ever been imo
legion was dope af but u only knew once it was over, nowadays i regret taking a break on tomb of sargeras tier, at the time it just felt like a normal break like i do every few tiers
Legion was PEAK
Legion wasnt that great, and was the start of WoWs dark history (the most alt unfriendlyness and 3 expansions in a row of ap grinds). I think people enjoyed it because it followed WoD where there was legitimately nothing to do. The end of Legion where you could wear 3 legos was fun tho.
Biggest problem with covenants is the dramatic impact to performance and gameplay if you pick the wrong thing. The difference between races in wow is like 1% at most. The differences in covenants were crazy. And we all rightfully had 0 faith in blizzards ability to tune them
I love this podcast, and it is one of my top 3 watched for the year. If the bonus episode was accessible via youtube using the members program, I'd 100% pay for it, but the fact that I'd need to use a different website to subscribe for the bonus content is enough for me not to bother. Worth thinking about :)
I don't know if it would actually end up being good stream content but I would absolutely watch Max play through the WC3 campaign since the recent fix/update.
The yapping makes work go by so much quicker always great
There are 4 reasons you join a key: score, end of dungeon loot, vault or crests. Lets say you are in a +9 and you rack up 13 deaths in the first 2 pulls of the dungeon. Why would you stay? You will not do it in time, so no score, almost no crests and at that key level a 610 ilvl gear from the chest is 95% of the time useless for everyone. And if the lead just wants a dungeon to be finished, I think it should be advertised as such (completion).
By removing the deplete mechanic, all of these problems will be solved.
The Visions of N'Zoth patch in Tol'Dagor Prison Dungeon I was Tanking as Vengeance DH and the Worgen boss where he stuns you and runs down the hall opening cells. Right before the Stun I Meta massively boosting my Max HP a Twilight Devastation proc happened as I was getting stunned. Twilight Devs Damage scaled of your Max HP. Well when the proc happened the boss ran with Twilight Dev staying in the beam the whole Beams movement getting crit multiple times and was deleted lol it was really funny.
Don't have to talk about how down bad retail is when the content the poddy delivers is a tier list. Holy
There needs to be a vote to disband option for those early wipe scenarios. Some people are eternal optimist type players. There are other players are eternally efficient and want to maximize their time. Vote to disband will allow players not to get caught up in a ban wave unfairly.
Some of the BfA Essences were amazing. At least as Healers.
Apart from some passive DPS bonuses, we had Well of Existence which stored Healing up to your own max HP and when an ally dropped below 30% (Health% depended on Essence Rank) it would take Healing from the Well and bump it into that injured player. It also worked with HoTs so Rejuvs, Riptide, Renews and other spells were amazing as they would trigger Well whenever needed as a kind of Smart Heal.
We also had Vitality Conduit where if I healed a person the Essence would transfer HP to the target from an ally nearby and give that ally an absorb. So with a Druid's Rejuvs ticking there would be a lot of small absorbs. The Essence Major effect would also transfer Health to whoever you used it on which would override Necrotic so a Healing Immune tank could still be Healed with that Essence.
There were some Essences that you just kept because they were "the best" but you could also swap some Major and Minor essences depending on if you needed extra mana or extra throughput or some extra damage!
If they had just enabled a system to get Essences othr than their one source (I knew I would not be optimal without it but over my dead body I spent time in Arena for Blood-essence...) it would have been really great.
Maybe a weird scenario, but i have played other games people bully to get people to leave. So they can then leave.
Dratnos breaking out the customer service voice to read Blizz’s statement. 😂😂
I don't usually leave until it becomes apparent it's 100% untimeable.
But I was in discord with my buddy who basically only pvp's (we get him portals every season 2600+ IO or w/e) and he just let it slip that he could never get invites as a warlock so he just started bricking all the keys he could get into.
??????.
Dude's out there bricking the keys of people who were nice enough to invite him lol.
moral of the story, asshats exist and it's unfortunate lol.
Legion classic comes out and the mage tower artifact appearances become an account-wide achievement everyone would end up playing classic legion. Just so they can get the appearances they missed when they were either more casual at the game, get a chance to play classes they weren't able to level up during that time cus 110 was level cap.
Was not expecting a Jeff Nippard mention here lol
2:51:47 I'm a paramedic and highly effective teams calmly communicate during stressful situations, it is not like tv where everyone is yelling and screaming. That doesn't work, and it kills people.
*Yes* I was literally listening to the old dratty patch tier list a couple days ago and was wondering if there will be more 🙌
38:00 Story time: Early this season my guild was doing a Heroic clear for Nerub-ar Palace and explicitly stated in LFG "discord required, guild run, recruiting mythic raid".
Warrior joins on Broodtwister, post discord link, we wait, post again, we wait, PM warrior and get "I don't join comms for heroic clears."
Me: Cool.. well this is a recruitment run you don't have to talk but we want people to get a feel for our environment, the purpose is to recruit.
Warrior: Why would I join comms? Heroic is easy, you don't need them. it's you're problem if you don't know the fights.
Me: Were recruiting, that the purpose of this run...
Warrior: Why would I join your guild if you cant even do heroic without comms?"
At this point I'm over it. We're 8/8, we know the fights, I don't know what this guy is going on about. I just kick him.
He pulls boss and starts harassing me in PMs.
I just hear "what an asshole" followed by "GO GO GO GO, kill the boss I wanna see if he gets a zero parse on logs."
Boss goes down easy. Dude flips out because he's trying to find a guild and now he has a super shitty average parse for that boss.
Moral of the story: Win in spite of jackasses like this, don't lose because of them.
What surprised me was Max asking Dorki if he still had his muscles from back in the day. I assumed they knew what Dorki looks like, but I guess not.
3 people who has promoted that people should leave keys if they feel like something goes wrong.
Are now finding out that blizzard does not like that.
But yes the banning is probably a very low number
low key if there was a channel membership exclusive video each week id pay, i just don't want to tab over to another website
Return to Kara to me is the best wow patch of all time. Not only was Legion just GOATed anyway but that mega dungeon was the best dungeon content ever added in WoW imo.
Imagine the following scenario: You have 1) a host who pretty much does only high M+ keys, 2) a host who casts the MDI for several years now and 3) a host who is the reigning RWF champion (meaning he enjoys competitive WoW the most) and you do a 3-hour-podcast.
And then ... instead of talking about MDI Globals (1 of 3 competitive events of the season), you do a patch ranking Oo The MDI really needs changes - because it seems no one seems to care about it.
2 and half hour podcast, about time you boys put the work in and do a real podcast 🎉
I remember reading something a while back that players that were not top rated but good enough to get into +12 easily were intentionally joining 12s or higher and leaving after the key started to keep the season title rating down. Blizzard probably is not banning people for leaving keys after the first pull like 8 or 10 times a week. They are banning people who are leaving keys like hundreds of times a week.
Not that Max would see this, But i got into Gundam Model kits because I also couldn't find a game to get sucked into. it's actually really nice, and it's a good way to get away from a screen, while keeping my ADHD engaged
Lily and Reptar go so fucking hard this episode.
Later Ce guilds not needing to test dmg, I have a point that y’all missed. Often times we have so much more dmg in our kills that we are able to kill a boss before a major mechanic check. For example fyrakk, you could skip multiple of the blazed line sets with your seeds out if you just did more dmg. Considering those line sets were the hardest mechanical part of the boss, being able to skip 1 or 2 of them was huge value
I'm not paying you money
thats fair
You did feel the hype later in Legion, or at least to me, because you dropped just as randomly the item to trade in for the legendary you wanted.
2:55:25 Max is referring to Colombian Footballer/soccer player Andres Escobar, who scored an own-goal at the World Cup in 1994 and was murdered about a week after he returned to his home country. There's an ESPN 30 for 30 about him and Pablo Escobar that is very interesting.
Dorki is just a chill guy who likes to do The PoddyC(hill)
Omg! N’Zoth is one of the best bosses they ever made! Love that fight and it’s the one boss I had the most fun doing ever and I’ve played since vanilla release
ya so all of ragnaros server is banned for sure, i think ive had like 10 keys this season where a rag player just leaves within 3 mins of the key starting.
Only takeaways - Dorki is jacked and has a CS degree.
1:04:18 Ironically this is a positive drawing point of the most popular Classic+ vanilla server going on. People like having salv and windfury who would have thought.
8.2 getting A tier despite the travesty of Benthic, Eternal Palace, and adding Essence grind on top of AP grind is insane.
Tier list is telling me AP grind=good, and I do kinda agree. Is it nice not feeling you have to play and grind for power? Yes. However, there feels like there is nothing to do outside M+ and raids for people who only focus on those aspects. For a lot of people, rep and world quests/events are not fun, and it gives nothing other than cosmetic rewards such as mounts or tiltes. Give us a new AP grind, with the knowledge of how to implement it from Legion/BFA
It boggles my mind that Corruption was never re-done/did not become an evergreen feature. It was clearly inspired by Diablo/hack and slash gearing and it made so much sense for WoW to spice up loot beyond having 4 stats to care about (which is really not enough). I really don't get why they don't try it again it was the only patch in WoW history where I cared about loot to that extent and could remember the name of the affixes and stuff I was looking for.
1:53:45 wait... did Dratnos just cuss??
Dratnos has a ridiculously insane memory.
7.0 might have been my most hated patch ever, purely due to the legendaries, and how bad it felt to just get my worst ones back to back to back.
Max objectively loves to use the word “Objectively”
I wouldn't be worried about false detection in the long term. If Blizz does some kind of mass ban and people wrongfully get targeted the community will eat em alive
To the engineering manager from Pateron Q: You are possibly way too focused on your "role" of being a manager and putting too much emphasis on "evaluation" processes and procedures, which is why you are asking this question. In order to not have this question, a manager needs to be heavily involved with the production that the team is doing. Really being there is what makes you aware of who is doing what and it becomes painfully obvious. As an engineer with 20 years of experience, the clueless absentee managers trying to find a "process", while being completely un-involved in any of the problem solving and general business we are doing, is among the most frustrating things about the industry, and there's way too many of these.
Visions of Nzoth is probably the most polarizing patch of the entire game.
Ya'll put it at S+ in a tier of it's own, I'd put it at C or potentially even F. The game was straight up pay to win for a small period of time, all of the issues with corruption were behind a grind even after they fixed the initial problems. You were permanently behind on corruption resistance because it wasn't BoA. They refused to make the essences from the previous patch BoA.
You either logged in and played your main and had a really fun time, or you logged in and saw the 40-50 hours of grinding required to play your alt and closed the game.
And RE - Classic Legion.
There is no good way for them to release it. It'll be almost 3 years since they've removed affixes from keystones that have impact from a weekly rotation and people will hate that feeling going back. There were massive issues with AP grinding, and farming throughout the entire expansion that didn't start to clear up until near the end. There were massive imbalances that weren't properly identified because we didn't optimize the game like we do today, there were massive systemic changes to AP acquisition and subsystems IE artifact knowledge wasn't always server wide, no discounting and progression for alternative specs of the same class, soft requirement caps to progress through bosses ect.
To make Legion classic be enjoyable by the majority of players, you have to massively nerf this. Most people want to log in and do hoodrat stuff with their friends for a few hours a week. But then you're going to alienate the people who want to come in and spend 20-30 hours into a game to make their mains extremely powerful.
I honestly hope they don't do it, not because I don't love the game. But I know for a fact if I were to try and go back to it those nostalgia goggles will hurt big time. There's so much shit in Legion that got improved on within the last 10 years. There's a ton of things in Legion that are gonna age like Milk, and it's just gonna get more sour with more QoL changes in retail.
I remember turning in my wardens cashed and getting my eye been leggo. Immediately went into +20 EoA and blasting 5 EB in on pack good times
the poddyc is what the bench is supposed to be
Ineffable Truth corruption was so insanely fun on my paladin in Visions of Nzoth
40:00 bliz can fix the whole situation by implementation a vote to abandon key feature
Acting like most expansions arent always like this, fun first 2months. - then quickly dies down and the waiting for next raidtier begins
Dorky wants to rant but he’s just a cool guy
Quit Legion week 4 after my guild was half way through Mythic and I had TWO! functionally bricked characters in a row due to legendary "soft"cap. I'll never accept any argument that they made the right call on that system in 7.0. (Fire Mage)
I had an idiot leave a +20 (+10 now) Shadowmoon group once because our blood lust went off 5 seconds late and it missed his opener
I absolutely remember my first Legion legendary
At the time I was playing the game with an IRL friend that probably remembers it too because I literally took my phone to call him and be like "IT DROPPED OMG" on phone
Random question, but what would be the reaction to Classic Remix (like MOP remix) for retail?
Sepulcher - We got tier sets back.
Had a Healer dying 4 times on first pull in ara-kara 10 and leaving. if you think about that, that just may be that player's default behavior, as in trying a key, its not going well, imma try join another ara kara 10 until i get this pull right. he got to know he's grieffing the group, but it's just irrelevant to him. that kind of behavior should be sanctioned. I don't really think people are joining keys with sole purpose to intentionally brick it, except if it's targeted. you spoke about toxicity in upper-to-higher brackets rising up until a point but i personally think that, unless the group leader deliberately wrong you in some way, which why would it happen before the key actually starts, it's very rare and actually really hard to do it. you'd have to sit and keep refreshing until you find that leader again listing his key. i mean... i dont even think theres one person per realm who'd engage into such actions.
We gotta drop this patch to an F tier. It’s so bad Dorki is wanting to go back to gym.
best episode yet
Wait "Not in a relationship." ???? When did this happen? I"m sorry if its old news but I don't follow to know their every detail.
Delve tip of the day: For underwater delves get yourself draenic underwater breathing elixirs that last an hour. pop one of those, and can just use the air bubbles for speed ups. Discovered this from a random tips and tricks vid I found, and its been life changing.
FIRST FOR DRATTY
All of the discussion of the troll behavior in mythic is why I do delves lol. Even though I know it's pretty rare, I just hate the idea of players I don't know being able to influence my gearing.
Back in cata, people hated it initially because they made it easier for newer players and took away what made vanilla wow, feel like wow.
Classic should have never gone past wotlk at the furthest.
For legion, people loved legion because of all the different cosmetic hunts, on top of goated content. Legion is 100% all S tier.
Forgot to mention, unless I missed it, that cross faction and the Creation Catalyst were added to 9.2
EDIT: And all of the great changes to Torghast! Like the Box of Many Things!
2:35:15 no, I listened to the whole thing while playing classic hardcore
You guys are two days early again? 😕😕
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?