Loneliness and Borderline Personality Disorder
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2018
- This video describes the loneliness aspect we see with borderline personality disorder. When we talk about loneliness and borderline personality disorder, we're talking about an experience that is fairly common for individuals with that diagnosis. When we look at the borderline personality disorder symptom criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, we won't see any symptom criteria that used the word loneliness, but rather we see a symptom criterion that says a chronic feeling of emptiness and usually that's the one we tie to this sense of loneliness. Sometimes we also tie in the fear of abandonment with this construct. Loneliness is really about a perception of social isolation and a feeling of being alone, but social isolation is a lack of interpersonal relationships. Social isolation and loneliness aren't exactly the same thing. One can be lonely without being socially isolated, but usually we do think of the two as strongly associated. Another way we can think of loneliness is that it is a perception of a difference between how many relationships somebody actually has and how many relationships that they desire. We could also look at it in a similar way: it's about the quality as well as the quantity of relationships. Loneliness is a construct that's associated with borderline personality disorder. Individuals with borderline personality disorder report higher levels of loneliness and social isolation. Loneliness has some severe consequences, whether it's associated with borderline personality disorder or not, including: higher morbidity with both mental and physical illnesses, and higher mortality. Individuals with borderline personality disorder report smaller social networks, so they have regular contact with a smaller number of people. Individuals with borderline personality disorder generally have the same number of people available to talk to, but impaired communication ability gets in the way.
Loneliness feels like a slow & excruciatingly painful death, but then you get used to it & numb or dissociate. It’s partly impaired communication & partly that people don’t understand & have a tendency to judge.
Live Life You just described me to perfection. I am always empty, lonely and wish I had never been born. It’s worse than death.
Same here... We all experience it differently, yet we deeply struggle with it.
Will it ever go away?
That's interesting to me. I never feel loneliness.....starting in my mid 30s I crave alone time, so many endless activities to do! would rather DO STUFF than interface with people 🤓
We isolate and deal with the loneliness as a courtesy to family/friends. We are fully aware that we bring absolutely nothing to the proverbial table other than drama and chaos. Its absolute hell and wouldnt wish it on anyone but its better than watching the torture and hurt that we bring and how it affect people around us.
That is a remarkably candid self-assessment. Which makes me think that your prognosis must not be terribly negative. Wishing you all the best.
I'm quiet, but I lash out from time to time. They made me this way, but it's hopeless and toxic wanting them to feel the pain they've inflicted on you growing up. All you can do is wait for the storm to pass. Ignore those who you can't stand
I can feel very lonely in a crowd.
Me too
I am not so sure if it is a communication issue when it comes to loneliness as wanting something from people that they cannot provide. I find myself being overly friendly to people I have only just met, when I notice most people are not like that. It's not that I 'drop' people, it's just that I perhaps expect more from some people than they can emotionally provide.
Accepting that I will forever be lonely despite whoever is around me is the hardest pill to swallow. I wouldn’t wish bpd on anyone it’s a nightmare.
Twelve years before my mother passed away she left the city where she'd spent all her adult life. The move allowed her to live alone over 500 miles from any family or friends -- she had alienated them all, including me -- and start fresh. When she became terminally ill I got to know her again, and she had changed quite a bit. Instead of being socially gregarious, immersed in the drama of marriages and affairs and family feuds, she was now living very quietly with her little dog for company. Her neighbors, the store clerks she saw regularly, the mechanic who worked on her car, all these incidental people seemed to truly love her, and she was very sweet and unassuming with them. I think she had matured into the best she could be, perhaps lonely and isolated but no longer tormented and at odds with the world.
My bpd has affected all my friends so they booked. I'm isolated, no friends, lonely and trying to get thru the pain daily. My actions brought it on as crazy lady :(
TL Andrews sane all my friends left me
Same. Now Im learning to be alone. Its very painful but hopefully I'll get used to it
I feel like that too from time to time. Just keep trying.
Being normal is foreign to me. I thought I was normal, except I felt uneasy, different and never was happy, felt disingenuous with my personality around others, attracted a toxic friend or two who said I'm fake. I was constantly drained, depressed and lashing out on family. Then I came across BPD and it fits. I'm wasting my young years away, bc I'm isolating myself and feel lost. I pray that it gets more manageable
I tried so hard but in the end I’m still so lonely and this recent experience have made me desperately need to search or learn how to be okay being lonely with no real friends. I’m seeking answers how to live my life being alone. I just need to be okay with being lonely. Cause expecting someone to accept you and love you back is just not happening for me lately.
pnaigie hamling Get a hobby, meditation, journaling & exercise help a lot. BPDs make great fiction writers because we dissociate so much.
I know it's 5 months on, and who knows where you're at now. And I know it doesn't really help. But you're together with the rest of us, in the big crowd of the internet. We understand, we're here with you.
I’m your friend 🌎🌎
Re BPD, I think some want a closeness but are aware they have difficulties addressing or resolving conflicts. They pull away from others under a belief they are protecting them. From my clinical experience, some with BPD feel they are a an interpersonal "pain the ass" (due to past relational difficulties) and withdraw socially. Others seem unaware of social boundaries, have difficulty being alone, and associated behaviors drive others away. This seems to reinforce the belief that everyone leaves...so...why bother? Communication skills may be part of the issue, but the cause of loneliness associated for those with BPD is multidimensional and complex. Thanks so much!!!! Your posts are so helpful and thought provoking!!!!
This. I desire it desperately but am so used to the pattern that always leads to something painful that I just stopped trying.
I just don't sync up with other people so I keep to myself. This causes people to say that I am a jerk because I don't t participate in the work place banter. When I do try it comes out awkward so I just don't participate. Most of the time I am lonely and very sad for no reason at all. I have a job that I like with people who do like having me around, I can be pretty funny on an up day. I have a relationship with an ex wife who does love me and wants to be with me. I don't really have any friends. Even the people at AA keep me at arms length. People get tired of me. I think that it is because they never no which Tim is going to show up today. Will it be the smart, capable Tim, or the nervous Tim who can't seem to think strait. Maybe it will be angry or sad Tim, they're never good to be around. I never know either. So I'll stay sober, not shoot myself in the face and get through another day. It's the don't; don't quit my job, don't leave my girl friend, don't do drugs, don't drink alcohol, don't be a dick, don't kill myself, don't do or say anything stupid. Yep, then later everything will be awesome! So awesome that I can't believe how good my life is. No wonder that I'm tired.
I feel this too. I look for friends who are very special. And when I find them I try to avoid going full on FP (fave person) on them, but just keep my joy to myself. They have to be NOT abusers of the manipulative narcisstic kind, but also they can't be codependent or pushovers so that my worst tendencies to be clingy or ask for too much run amok. My best friends are people who have a thick skin but also clear boundaries and a warm heart underneath. I'm like a sea urchin. I'm poky and spiny on the outside but it's mainly because I'm soft Inside. I don't want to hurt most people unless they provoke me first, and ut have to remind myself to be logical before I retaliate an overboard amount. If you're an armadillo or a pangolin, you can be friends with me. Playful, interesting and strong but not a predator. But I won't bother being friends with soft skinned peple like a naked mole rat who I could hurt easily even without meaning to, or a mean fake friend like a feisty crab. (One of the few predators of sea urchins.) The problem is it's not always easy to tell right away who is good armadillo or pangolin material since these people seen kind of rare. I try to show my acceptable facets to people who seem quality for closeness every now and then but I always feel like I have to be careful. You can't share too much of yourself these days because you never know who's gonna get offended, take your words out of context, and END you. As far as communication goes I'm still figuring out how to showcase the best of me, and believing I have anything good to show off, without coming off as annoying. I most of the time think the best way is to keep your head down and let your actions speak for themselves. They are the only concrete way I can guess how people evaluate me. I just try to stick to facts. You look for ways to have validation of your reality and accomplishments without needing other people to do it for you but it takes time and courage.
@@GradyBroyles me too
@@Iquey Beautifully understood and I can relate
Lonely all my life its a total hell to be in
😢
I agree on the impaired communication aspect.
I Also think our demands on others and fear of abandonment drive others away.
Cosmic Rhino I’m not exactly sure what impaired communication would be. Maybe it’s that some people just can’t think of the right words well; they can’t explain what they feel. Possibly they can’t read people’s faces well and thus can’t differentiate between the emotions people convey with their expressions. Or maybe they say wrong or inappropriate things that put people off. Certainly a fear of abandonment can bring about the very thing they fear as people don’t like clinginess. I tried.
When he brought up the impaired communication aspect I felt relief bc that’s what I struggle w most, or at least focus & sike myself out on
Personally it has always been insanely difficult to communicate with other humans. Like I have this complex filtration system that tries to connect thoughts and words and phrases but also trying to adjust to the audience. It’s like I get lost in my head and by the time I’ve got a sentence that makes sense the time to say it has long since passed and we go back to square one of trying to figure out how and when to use my words. I hate being alone but I hate other people.
With regards to not having very diverse social groups, it could be related to the extreme ideation and devaluation. One thing I find myself doing a lot is distancing myself from one person or group by latching onto another. So I currently hate my family, so I cut them off and devote myself totally to my relationship with my partner or my gaming group or my coworkers. Then in a few months, I'll hate them and find a new thing to obsess over, only ever really being involved with a small group of people at a time because that obsession takes up SO much of my emotional energy.
Well the thing is, we can feel people around us. We not only can sence their energy and emotion but we also feel every single word that comes out of them, and since we sometimes tend to have thin skin we could get hurt (and lash out on them, which no one likes) from just a word or action of theirs and cause of that - we get really picky and specific about who we have around.
It all comes down to us having a lot of love for certain ppl, and if they don't even try to understand us, we get hurt and angry and vioula! There you have it. Less ppl in our social group
But I personally think that I'm slowly healing and I'm getting and having merier friends who I do have some healthy arguments with but I stay, and they stay.
I can see and feel the positive process
Lovely. Hope for my BPDers...
That is soo true, i think we can feel everything, or we just triping but i think we learn how to do automatic analysis by subconscious so fast so we can be safe!!
Good for u u explained borderline healing it is about behaviour fake it until u make it and survive but the mood swings that u try to hide from healthy people Can make u get mad good luck
I have BPD I prefer to be alone 99% of the time away from people by choice thank goodness
"Laugh and the world laughs with you
Cry and you cry alone"
And when you do
Everyone else seems to be laughing all at once
Nobody cares about that because they don't know
I don't want to bore anyone
I nearly messaged three people for help, but what's the point in burdening people.
Its very complex. I'm 60 and can't figure myself out. I just stay alone often because I get psyched out by human interaction.
Both my parents were commited to the psych ward when I was young and I was raped at elementary school by a pedophile so I struggle to feel safe in the world.... Its hard to feel real...
What about deep, trait loneliness which is brought on by childhood neglect and abandonment, which isn't alleviated with relationships?
I can relate as well. Because of this childhood neglect and abuse, plus a poor social environment (my parents don't have any friends, and they tend to control me a lot), relationships' models are unefficient. I much prefer to be on my own because I do not genuinely understand the benefits and the pleasure of friendship or close relationships, even though it makes me suffer because of the social pressure. That's difficult.
That's different, and there's no solution for what you're describing.
Im loney all the time, its more like the feeling of being the odd one out and knowone understands or believes you, even the odd 1 or 2 friends i have i keep at arms length because im scared if they see my mood swings there leave , and i dont want to say or do the wrong thing, so il will go out alone and eat shit, spend money just to try and take my mind off it, if im constantly active and dealing with a different drama, il even cause a drama just to try and take my mind away from it, but in the end im just constantly alone
Spot on! There is a lot of videos posted on here showing us with BPD in a ‘negative’ light. You speak the facts and give me hope! And make me understand myself and my actions, so much more. You break it down!!! In laimen terms and that is a BIG thing for us
My communication skills are fine, I don’t have friends because if I have a friend, they leave eventually so I just don’t have them.
Something just occurred to me.
Dr. Grande is Grande!
Thought it would be worth mentioning
Relative poverty eqauls lack of transportation and less options for socializing.
mallory //its not even that
Loneliness is part of western culture and blueprint. Its a demanding fast-pace culture which requires optimum productivity and thereby forcing people to abandon moral/ethical/ cumulative tribal customs of loyalty to friends and family and to the outer community in general, making it harder even unnecessary for people to have friends. I don’t think you or i or anyone could change that. So sad ...
I find your videos to be very helpful. I struggle with trying to understand my diagnosis and also with feelings of shame around it. The neutral/straightforward way that you approach these subjects provides a clear explanation with no judgements attached. Thank you for your work.
I have BPD and one of my main reasons for being a loner is that I don't understand people. I do isolate myself and have no friends out of choice because I struggle to connect and relate to people and vice-versa. The other problem is that I currently have one person I admire and love bomb greatly but when the person is out of reach, the loneliness reaches an all-time high which causes depression and impulsiveness, and identity issues on my part. I rely fully on my favorite person to be my social crutch in this world. My favorite people were my parents but they both passed away.
I have pretty much all of the symptoms of BPD but I'm not allowed to be diagnosed with it until I am 18. I find that stupid because they are treating me as I am bipolar. Its dumb.
I would like to think that all mental health disorders have some aspect of loneliness associated with them and not just BPD. I would presume that having a mental health disorder would automatically give one a feel of alienation towards others, especially if they haven't dealt with anyone with a disorder before or just the related stigma in general that mental health disorders continue to have. Hopefully awareness and empathy for those with mental health disorders will increase within time to counteract the stigma.
Sir..... Your spss videos r single-handedly getting me through my Phd. Sometimes a text book just doesnt cut it. You explain processes and interpretation so sensibly and methodically. Thank u so much. I've started watching all your vids now lol. Not my field at all but u make it interesting. Many many thanks. J
You are quite welcome!
There is a really good Psychology professor from Stanford University who has a lot of videos if you are looking for relaxing ideas.
In terms of borderline coming from childhood sexual abuse, it's always felt as though I'm different than them kind of feeling. I've had a few friends but not what is considered a normal friendship and not always lasting long. My closest friends are ones I see occasionally not daily or even weekly. Even relationships tend to be lonely because no one understands.
I think that my mind has made another personality just so i could survive in the outside world,i'm calling it chad, this person in funny, sociable and can actually talk to people, i don't know how this person "activates", but it always do when i have to talk to people i don't have a high conection with, the thing is i'm actually very shy and i hate meeting people, also, the more close i'm to a person, the less of that chad personality i have, so in my home in ever depressed (excludind when the manic depression comes in), and in the university i'm this sociable guy, i can't control chad, he just makes stuff when it needs to be done, and i thanks him for that, but all this twisted thoughs make my head hurt and just makes me more confuse on who i am
Wow! Thank you for making us aware of the serious nature of loneliness.
This was extremely helpful. Thank you.
I found it interesting that loneliness has consequences of higher morbidity with both physical and mental health issues and a higher mortality rate.
Wow, this video is just me! With the exception that I work & live with my boyfriend. Love your videos Dr. Grande! 💖
the study makes a lot more sense to me as someone who is looking at getting a diagnosis for bpd. I have lots of friends but i don't feel like I can connect like normal people connect, and so I feel lonely. Obviously this is only the tip of the iceberg as to why I think I have bpd but for once i'm actually relating to these symptoms and there is some relief in that, however short lived that relief might be.
I started to feel lonely in the past I was very interesting person but after my previous Hotel career I lost my individuality. Now I have my dream job Graphic Designer I lost my ability to communicate. I have became too polite and that makes me a boring person worst thing that I cannot change this behavior. I feel lonely even when I'm talking to someone.
Well explained Dr Todd thanks I have BPD and I agree with this Loneliness 🙏😁👍
Hi. Living with BPD here. Can you please do a video about self-doubt after a BPD diagnosis? I'm 41 years old, recently got diagnosed as BPD by two doctors. I'm experiencing a lot of emotional self doubt as I realize how BPD has affected me, affects me and how to manage it. Thank you.
Not sure I like the all-black background and black shirt? Feels a bit bleak? I rather liked your office setting & mixed clothing. Uncontrived & more in alignment with your unique gifts as an academic. There are so few professionals like yourself in this space. No need to modify how you look, or where you broadcast. You are a real gift in breaking through new-age bullshit & MSM nonsense. We so need minds like yours online. Thank you.
what we need to know is where we can go to get help and support and meet others we can talk to and make friends
you can't handle rejection (the pain is unbearable, sometimes takes days to get over), so you avoid social situations that put you there. Even just planning what might put me in a situation I could feel rejection, I'm filled w/ a sense of dread...so it's emotionally painful to even plan to do these things.
Dr Grande: This information is excellent. Can you provide additional insights on both why quiet BPDs sometimes will not talk, and how a lived one can facilitate communication?
excellent explanation
Thank you!
It's lonely when no one gives a shit and bpd is the universal scapegoat.
Hey Dr. Grande, I'm a big fan of your videos! I was wondering if you know anything about the boundaries of the mind and the connection to borderline and schizotypal pd's? I'd also be interested in seeing if you think there's any link between primary psychopathy and thick mental boundaries, which would further distinguish secondary psychopathy and primary psychopathy.
How do the aspects of early mother child bonding and parental interaction during developmental stages have an effect on the various personality disorders?
On point Doc.
I appreciated how you explained the symptom criteria ( in dealing with loneliness) that ties into a sense of emptiness and possibly abandonment in accordance to the DSM.
Same. The explanation helped me understand the feeling of loneliness better as it relates to BPD.
I have BPD. I can understand.
Thanks again.
Not to be sarcastic, how can we ever get lonely, we entertain ourselves constantly. I never felt loneliness, but emptiness is a big one. I have to be alone, to consider my decisions every day. But I also need time to focus on my numerous hobbies that I love, and if I had too many people in my life, I would feel like I would have to give up my bobbies. Art, bike riding. We only trust a few people, and I have to agree, my communication is shy and impaired, due to making an effort to mirror my answers. But I have to say, I don't get lonely, and never have. Just empty.
Very interesting
Well, if you’re a very inconsistent person and people can’t get a sense of who you are, as in BPD, people get frustrated with you and don’t know who you are. Naturally, they give up. ( not that I have bpd, I just love psychology).
Living with this condition is so painful. Why people suffering like us be offered assisted suicide?
No, suicide is not an answer.
@@rose4490 Yes it is.
@@jolielive3 suicide is never the answer. My dad took his own life and it has tortured me my whole life.
i just 🧿 disassociate 🧿 through it
Very true…
I know someone that I suspect might fall into this category. She lives alone, but she has animated a book that she talks to as if it is a child or an ex. I was curious if others could relate to this, BTW she is elderly.
Dr. Grande i am choosing to be not the least bit lonely any more now that I am seeing many videos all of a sudden advertised next to videos I am watching in support groups for those who have suffered from narcissistic abuse -- Advertised there by Sam Vaknin as distraction from those videos -- Right after you published that last video on a research study about Borderline PErsonailty disorder as it relates to marrital problems that you described in detail including a description of the couples who were chosen in both the study group and the control group What a coincidence eh? Is Sam Vaknin maybe hoping to garner more synpathy from the public to himself for being still married to one according to him by any chance to ease his own lonliness because of depersonalization experienced with the narcissistic wound he claims to have?
It comes from lack of meaning..the loneliness that is. Does he talk anywhere about work and BPD?
There are several points made here that I appreciate. The symptoms of fear of abandonment and chronic emptiness are often used to infer loneliness. It is important to assess social isolation versus perceived loneliness. The factors of quantity, quality, and diversity have different implications. Factors, such as impaired communication affect socialization more so than limited social domains.
I think there is something wrong with this because the Bpd can really be happy and active and social ppl if it's not trager them disorder that they have about getting abandoned from other's that they are interested to be with.
I want loneliness because nobody understands my feelings and I will eventually push someone away because I can't deal with closeness and can't deal with distance. I look for problems when they are not there.
Interesting
having short train of thought now after watching this.
what if a traumatic experience can be kinda anything ?
Thing is, it just has to perceived as being traumatic
like for an example, birth...god...
yes it is the natural way of life, but it pretty much means that after 9 months living somewhere, you get removed from your old home to be in the regular world
Same for anyone leaving you, a person you knew passing away...
now this could all cause maybe in some way PTSD.
But to get PTSD, you do kinda need some actual personality traits to develop it.
I mean, ok, chances are big that if you got like a rough life that involves like for an example that you get born, your dad leaves after 3 years, your mother mentally abuses you and your biological dad comes and goes along with some other partners your mom has for the coming decade and those guys all sexually abuse you during that period that you will develop issues simply because you have actual emotions, which is mandatory for human beings to have....but still, the more emotionally instable in a way, the more chance there is to develop PTSD.
thing is, if this PTSD needs, like any other mental disorder, to have the unfortunate person to have certain personality traits to begin with, then it kinda points into the direction of having personality problems
also ending up with PTSD from childhood, can later thus, when personality is developed, be the cause of a personality disorder, like borderline.
Since like said, many people diagnosed with borderline report traumatic events.
But then, what classifies as a traumatic event though ?
Back to borderliners, they can perceive threats that often are not really there
For an example, there are plenty of stories of borderliners who imagen abandonment and them being intently hurt, but also now and then there is that kind of story of a borderliner who imagens someone else of treathening his or her life.
For an example, i do not remind were the story was from, but some person who was in a relationship with someone with borderline told a story about how they went out swimming in the sea.
He then kinda does something, his partner with BPD ends up pushed in the water, and right after that the partner with BPD starts fighting the other partner, claiming there was an attempt of murder !
I just think it is interesting to note the strong correlation between BPD and PTSD and the fact that BPD kinda can cause behavior that can make things to turn into vicious circles.
Just was reminded of that by this vid by again the talk about how the loneliness is actually what one perceives, not what actually is.
Does anyone know of any good online forums for bpd ?
Thank you for this video doctor. You'd better dop the whole phrase and just say bdp in future.
Wonder if these people who are talking have been through the diognoses, it's when you talk About a subject and been through it yourself some people might listen to what your saying????
This video is so relevant for me rn with this coronavirus nonsense....
In other words: "My loneliness is killing me and I must confess I still believe (Still believe). When I'm not with you I lose my mind. Give a sign. Hit me baby one more time." Followed by the shaving of the head, the smashing out a car window with an "umbrella ella ella ella ay ay ay ay" and giving a black eye to oneself and calling the cops to tell them it was Chris Brown that hit me baby one more time.
rofl
The person in our family with BPD has been so cruel to everyone around her -- family, friends, neighbors and coworkers -- that she has driven almost all of them away. Which has made loneliness almost completely inevitable for her. Much as someone might want to pick up and hold a rattle snake, the rattle snake will "teach" you not to do it.
😂😂😂, I am thinking my body is here and I am unaware about anything else even my existence is questionable
You're absolutely correct on the loneliness factor...And you assert about the complexities in relation to 'impaired communication'...Being the precursor or as A consequence...I would like to think it's not about impaired communication...poor description in my awareness and makes the BPD person feel inferior for all the wrong reason...You really don't need that terminology to be frank..
Love your videos nevertheless
Thank you!
Nobody understands me , I m different 😂😂😂
Can people with BPD be cured?
well shit
Mom has called 22x todqy so far. Fml
Isn't it horrible how we as people with BPD are down deep some of the best people and deserve all good things just like everyone else, we just can't bring ourselves to trust others to be understanding and we definitely can't trust them to want to. We didn't ask for this. I don't have ebola.
Just keep em as far from me as the lord can 🙏🏽💯🙏🏽💯🙏🏽💯🙌🙌🙌💥💥💥💯💯💯
I think you are describing Schizoid and not Borderline. Borderline NEEDS people, and are very clingy
I think its all due to eating plantfoods. As a boy becoming a man you must get strong and grow into that mold. If you don't have enough physical and mental power you cannot expand you abilities. And from the outside you show the traits then.
They need to stay alone😂😂😂😂😂