What is the Relationship between Borderline Personality Disorder and Shame/Guilt?
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- This video answers the question: What is the relationship between borderline personality disorder and shame and guilt. Borderline personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). That is the dramatic, emotional, and erratic cluster. There are nine symptom criteria for borderline personality disorder: 1) frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, 2) an unstable, intense relationship pattern - sometimes we think of this as an idealization devaluation cycle, 3) identity disturbance, 4) impulsivity in at least two areas that would be self-damaging, 5) recurrent suicidal behavior, like gestures, attempts, and threats, 6) affective instability, 7) chronic feelings of emptiness, 8) intense and appropriate anger (this one's particularly important when we talk about shame and guilt) and, 9) paranoid ideation and dissociation. Five symptom criteria are required for a diagnosis, which can only be made by a licensed and qualified clinician. Shame and guilt are not specifically mentioned anywhere in the symptom criteria, but we know they are features associated with borderline personality disorder. This idea of being more likely to experience shame is referred to as shame proneness and there's a lot of research that shows that borderline personality disorder has this component. For example, we see with borderline personality disorder an increased level of shame when compared to other disorders that have an affective instability component. We also see that the effect of shame lasts longer in borderline personality disorder than we see with other negative effects. This shame component is really considered a cornerstone borderline personality disorder. We also know that guilt has a relationship with borderline personality disorder. We usually think of this relationship as being less guilt, so we see more shame but less guilt.
There is a difference between shame and guilt. Both shame and guilt are self-directed negative emotions. With shame, there's this belief that individual has that they are bad, are not good enough, or have a defect or a deficit. Guilt is when someone believes their behaviors are bad. Guilt is more logical than shame, and it's actually more useful than shame in a lot of ways. We generally view shame as destructive. Shame has been associated with increased feelings of anger, increased aggression, and an increased probability of externalizing blame. All three of those characteristics have an association with borderline personality disorder. We also see with increased levels of shame an increased probability of ruminating about experiences that led to the anger in the first place, whether those experiences would have normally resulted in anger or not. Guilt is associated with less anger and less aggression. This really gives us the idea that in general, shame is bad and unhelpful and guilt is good and helpful. Of course, that's not always true. We see with other mental disorders, like major depressive disorder for example, where there's oftentimes inappropriate and unhelpful levels of guilt. It is a generalization to say that shame is unhelpful and guilt is helpful, it's not necessarily appropriate or accurate for every situation.
Peters, J. R., & Geiger, P. J. (2016). Borderline personality disorder and self-conscious affect: Too much shame but not enough guilt? Personality Disorders: Theory, Research, and Treatment, 7(3), 303-308
Imo shame is what I think the core content of the borderline is. We feel defective & out of sync with the rest of the world. we pretend that we're fine and normal, so to speak; when all the while these symptoms just keep going round and round and round. We're great pretenders, really, we would make fantastic actors and actresses since we act on a daily basis - heck maybe some of the great actors already are
If many of us had you as a therapist...many of us would be better....
Truth... I've watched 10000000 of his videos
You must be American - they spent every dime on fake wars and can’t give their citizens basic healthcare . I’m from nz- a tiny economy but with free healthcare
@@camogrrl Well whoopdie do. New Zealand has free healthcare
For real! I’d like to see a show like nanny 911 or fix my life but for mental health issues. It would give everyone a window into these disorders and perhaps it would be less stigmatized.
To continue: Being American is not relevant to the comment to which you are replying. Neither is your opinion of wars in which the USA has been involved. Nor is your opinion of the American healthcare. The comment expresses admiration for Dr Grande's knowledge and his excellent delivery of that knowledge and his ability to use that knowledge to the betterment and relief of troubled persons.
Methinks your comment may indicate a, shall we say hatred, of Americans. Not much in common with opinions on Dr. Grande's knowledge and abilities as a therapist.
I passed my national exams because of your videos. Thank you and God bless. 😊
Congratulations!
You are quite welcome!
Awesome!
Awesome
Congratulation
Anger at myself is more accurate for me.
When Empaths manage to beat back feelings of shame they can learn to be healthy enough to make good value judgements about other people. That way they don’t get run over by people who act like the Road Runner in the cartoon. A little porcupine behavior is a really good thing for people over run by jerks. Dr. G taught me this. Thanks to him.
I've read the first sentence in your comment a few times. Powerful. I've never thought of it that way!
Maturity is earned, yes, exactly! When surrounded by toxic people, our quills r triggered wayyyy 2 often, so that they can kick us while we r down, w/out getting as quilled. Our quills r a great analogy 4 healthy boundaries, that I must borrow... They r wasted among people w/shifty or less healthy boundaries, that leave all who r concerned wondering where they end & we begin.
This is very thoughtful, and I'm so glad you made this comment. I just wanted to highlight one thing though: in my experience as someone with BPD, one might want to be careful of making value judgements about others. I've noticed that I can get a little (well, let's be honest, more than a little) carried away with them sometimes. We all have different definitions of good and evil, but I think there's very few, if any, people in the world who are wholly good or evil. However, due to my propensity for black and white thinking, I often find myself labeling people as good or bad in my head, which can result in some negative experiences and thoughts. I try now to just view actions as good or bad, and moreover, only good or bad relative to me or to people I care about. I think it really helps keep my emotions in check.
I am BPD and I constantly suffer from self blaming
I was criticized, mocked and rejected as a child. I believe it is that background that makes me unable to show much aggression toward others. I was built of shame...so how can I act aggressively? My physical self consciousness, alone, would prevent it. I was called repulsive, feel repulsive and, yet, was named the Prom Queen. I was so desperate not to show my true repulsive self, that I over compensated to model that ideal. And did. On the outside. That just led to anorexia and self harming/burning, and all the other excessive, impulsive and self destructive behaviors.
The same thing for me
I feel like I wrote this - I was prom queen too but there was just so much shame inside me...I never felt enough. The bullied kids at school wondered why I could relate to them and felt connected to them despite being popular (because of people pleasing and being conscious of how I looked). I felt like it was because I was bullied in my own home.
@JujuChange01 Can you you imagine if we had known eachother? I hope we could recognize eachother truthfully. I'm afraid I would have only seen your outside, never imagining you could feel as insecure or as jealous as I would have been of you. It's so sad. Maybe we would have learned to trust eachother? I don't know? Anyway, your reply helps me, even now! So, thank you! 😊💔
Thank you for putting out such factual and none judgemental content, ever since been diagnosed with bpd 15 or so years ago, it has been my experience that so much of what is out there in the media and society about bpd is negative and often cruel in the way the disorder is talked about. Even by fellow people in the mental health community. Which let's be fair is super unhelpful for those dealing with bpd as it can easily fuel anger at others or shame and guilt towards ourselves and can increase feelings of paranoia and fear of abandonment.
I am now a lot less open with people due too the toxicity that is often directed towards bpd.
This video is a really good way for me to help explain and share some of the aspects of bpd in a non bias way
Thank you
You're welcome!
Jasmine Mack I also struggle with bpd and it is my mission to end the stigma. Please support my project that promotes mental health. We are on Instagram @hopethebluerobot
Check out Dr Jes Fox on UA-cam too. He is so compassionate towards BPD'ers
@@DrGrande can you respond more throughly in a separate video in regards to this? A simple thank you does no justice to the damage the stigma that exists in the professional world does upon those who suffer from BPD. It often seems these videos are speaking to those who don’t suffer from BPD rather than speaking to those who do.
I wish you used the word remorse as opposed to guilt. To me, innocence is a lack of inner condemnation and feelings of wrongness about the self and guilt inspires me to feel wrong about what I’ve done and in turn who I am. In Remorse, I honor that I’ve made a mistake and work to correct it/my behavior without letting any of these things prod up against my identity. Guilt and shame always come hand in hand and are downward spirals. Remorse is another story.
I've found that rationalizing helped me manage my emotions and a lot of the symptoms. And in time, I've learned to feel guilt rather than shame, which has helped me realize how my behavior harmed myself and others around me and what I could do to fix it.
To take a phrase from another Doctor these people must be made to understand that they are hurting other people and that should never be allowed to continue,This must be our major concern,not just how it may hurt them when they are caught,no one should be made a Victim simply to avoid hurting the perpetrator.
The Victim is the Victim and the Perpetrator is the perpetrator. Thanks again for your help today.
Yes, SHAME is a HuGE component in BPD; shame and invalidation early in life! plus insecure attachment (maternal bonding). Shame is personal, guilt is less personal because it is about the act; not about the person. Totally understand the lack of socially adaptive guilt (consideration, empathy, scruples). Anger/aggression = lashing out, dysregulation. But people with BPD also experience regret after they do things; they feel bad, not sure if it is shame or guilt. Ah, you answered it at the end of the video. Awesome information!
They carry it for their parents. That's the relationship. When they get away from them they carry it for everyone else they meet including the "mental health system."
OMG that's me.
I've just recently been diagnosed with bpd and bipolar 2 .. when my nurse and pdoc told me there was reasons for all the ways I feel , it was such a relief .
Anger at abusers which wasn't permissible as a child and so was redirected inwards. Unable to believe our caretakers we were helplessly dependent on could be bad, we had to internalize it as being our fault, that something was wrong with us. That's the source of shame.
We don't actually feel guilt, because we lack empathy. We believe we feel guilt, but we don't know that we don't because it's hard to know you're not experiencing something that you have never felt before. We actually simply fear losing control of our lives, partners, friends, jobs, or environment. We also feel self pity over having to experience negative consequences for our actions, sometimes to the point of tears (this appears to others as remorse).
Im on YT trying to gain some knowledge on BPD to better understand someone who may have it and to also understand the effect that it has on the family, friends, and partners of someone diagnosed with BPD and I saw your comment and I have to admit. The part about being completely devoid of empathy is honestly very disturbing and very damaging to all parties. Overall its saddening to realize that essentially you're trying to love someone who doesn't have the capacity to love you or themselves. Especially considering their lack of compassion leaves them without any compelling reasons to change.
It explains of the abusive behavior to loved ones and close friends. It explains it, but its very hard to accept and feel compassion for them when their manipulating and abusing their loved ones and those closest to them.
This absolutely nails it. I've a friend who's very much BPD and he is absolutely crippled by shame, but can have real problems understanding why he's crossed the line with individual acts.
Wow, thank you for posting this comment. It really opened my eyes to some things I'm going through. If you knew that your friend was trying to transition from shame to guilt, albeit slowly (and becoming a lot more aware of their BPD as well), what would you want him to realize or to do?
Don't feel ashamed. Learn your strengths, keep watching videos like these, use yourself for good and embrace yourself. You have heightened senses, the ability to analyze, you're unpredictable
I have bpd I just reason ly found out that is my problem from a young age I never knew what was wrong with me but I knew it was something not right I dropped out of school during my ninth grade because I didn't fit in so I really don't know how to write and explain myself I don't know how to put periods where they belong so I'm sorry everything runs into one I am 67 yrs.old and I live a very avoidance life I'm alone all the time and that's where my shame and my guilt come in so I am glad I ran across your video because I'm tired of this and I need help bad if I'm ever to have a life thank you
Thank you, Dr. Grande.
I recently left a religious cult. Which has made the BPD extremely difficult. The shame and guilt is through the roof. I have no idea who I am, if I’m a terrible person, etc.
This video helped calm me down, so thank you.
Interesting I'm going through the same thing.
Thank you Dr. Grande for also explaining about the difference between shame and guilt.
Wouldn't it be an idea to do a video about OCPD and shame and guilt? People with this disorder are very conscientious and feelings of guilt can appear often when they didn't behave 'perfect'. That makes them vulnerable for becoming depressed. They also blame others easely, because these others didn't behave 'perfect'. Feelings of anger, because of these imperfections are often not allowed to express, because that doesn't fit in with their idealised self that tells them to be emotional in control.
Doing some kind of a video about perfectionism and feelings of shame and guilt would be appreciated very much!
I hope you consider it sir.
I learn so much from your videos and you are so helpful in posting these great vids each week. 👍👌
You're welcome! I will add your video idea to my list. Thank you!
This makes so much sense to me. Not wanting to feel ashamed makes me avoid doing a lot of things and I do also actually tend to feel less guilty about NOT telling someone that I accidentially made a mistake, leading to problems throughot my whole life. Because I just can`t stand it, feeling shame is like being kicked in the n**s when you are lying on the ground after you already got beaten up by yourself. I also get very easily triggered when someone (my Parents used to do this all the time) uses my past mistakes to humiliate me in front of other people.
Thanks for shedding some light on some of the issues I unknowingly have been dealing with for two decades now, Dr. Grande. Your scientific and matter-of-fact approach to this make me consider getting and official diagnosis and going into therapy.
Amazing video Dr Grande, and I find it very helpful for someone like me who has BPD and it's really interested in science in general, I wish there was more scientifically acurate videos like yours on the internet. Thanks for the good work!
You are quite welcome!
Absolutamente Nadie hello there, I also struggle with bpd, I created a project that promotes mental health. Please support us. We are on Instagram @hopethebluerobot 🙏🏻
I definitely get the feeling of how I will feel bad & feel guilt for something, but not actually feel like a guilty person overall, but when I feel shame, then I feel like I am actually a total disgrace. The majority of the worst shame has come with gaining insight into how awfully I know I have appeared to others at times when my emotions had overwhelmed me into borderline tendencies & traits. I lived over 10 years of my childhood being so anxious and guarded that I often felt totally disabled by simple social things that normal people wouldn't think twice about. But my actual biggest fear that I was trying to avoid at all costs was shame. Any small imperfection or mishap would cause such intense shame and horror that it bothered me for years, so I tried my best to be as robotic and devoid of emotions as possible, just hoping to get through each school day without anything that drew any attention to myself at all, so that no chance of embarrassment or shame could plague me. I often wanted to be like other kids, carefree and acting like kids were expected to, but it was an incapacitating anxiety that overtook me. I guess extreme shyness coupled with being a highly sensitive person, as well as being dismissed and unvalidated at home and feeling none of the adults charged with my care could ever possibly understand or even care. I found myself able to only express negative feelings at home. Anger and complaining were the only things I could show to my family, but I showed Nothing at school or in public. This was my life from 4 to around 14. At age 14 I had become so miserable for so many years feeling trapped in the existence of a child when I couldn't bring myself to play the role and felt such shame over being classified as an immature kid that was not taken seriously, yet feeling all the loneliness and deep black depression of someone who had been supremely beaten down under misery and fear for over 10 years without ever feeling joy or hope or acceptance or belonging. It was as if the floodgates opened and all that pain starting bursting out in the form of borderline traits. Nobody talked about cutting back then. It was not widely known or talked about outside psychiatric settings. I had never heard of it. But suddenly one night I got the idea to cut my leg. It was as if the thought was literally placed in my mind out of nowhere. So I did, and felt a unique relief that was just bizarre. So I kept on. When my mother found out from seeing blood in the legs of some pants, she confronted me and forced me to show her. That was one of the most shameful humiliating moments of my life. She cried in horror like never before. Perhaps that was the realization in some way of her seeing how absent and pathetic of a parent she had been. No physical or sexual abuse, but a mom who got the American dream when she finally landed a rich husband when I was 4, after my biological rich father 100% abandoning and denying me in every way except the court compelled payments. Lived in my town, continued to try screwing mom, but never came near me once in my entire life. He was wealthy from a local cotton gin family and everyone knew him at my elementary school as he owned the gin next to it and the corner store across the street. But if anyone mentioned his daughter to him, he denied having children. Even my teachers would see my name and know I was supposedly his child, yet look so puzzled and confused when they would ask me if that was my father and I would confirm. My mother always told me about him and made a big deal to get a DNA test to get the courts permission to force his name on me because he wouldn't agree to it or accept paternity. Murphy cotton gins were a big deal in my small community. But I am the only Murphy I have ever known. So that was a few million pounds of abandonment and shame that I had no clue had any impact on me whatsoever for many years. But the behaviors appeared magically with me having no explanation. Everyone said if you aren't raped or beaten then there's no excuse. My mother was like the goose that finally got the golden egg in life, and that egg to her was her new husband's bank account, not her only daughter that was 4 years old and had never even been around any men, and was especially nervous and terrified in their presence. Her husband was cold, aloof, rigid, and menacing toward me. He never acknowledged my existence except for occasional hateful words. Just existing in front of him when my very soul could feel how unwanted I was brought much shame. I was ashamed of even being alive. The cutting led to an attempt to run away with a 24 year old man in the air force that I met online and lied to about my age. My parents caught us as I was packing his car in the dead of night. My stepfather yelled my age to him and he ran for his life. That incident brought more guilt than shame because I felt so awful for what I had put him through and how I nearly wrecked his life. I was put into a facility where a counselor said I radiated textbook borderline personality disorder. He kept showing me and my file to his colleagues saying this is a prime example of borderline. All I wanted was a life where I could just be a wife and mother. Just a family where I had a purpose and was needed and valued and loved. My soul cried out for only that, and no amount of medication or therapy ever touched the horrible level of misery that I felt 24/7 for the next 10 years. Only in my late 20's, after finally having children and a relationship that eventually became stable and healthy after 7 years of more children and the turbulent shifting of both our cluster b issues into two decent human beings and parents against all odds, only then did I gain the insight into outside perspectives of how it looked to others seeing me living all those years in an emotional abyss roller coaster of a dark night of the soul for over 20 years. Back then my emotions were so wrecked and dysfunctional that I didn't know or care how others perceived it because all I felt was pain. It was as if all that misery and neurosis from childhood had finally drained out of me after ten years of forming and then ten years of purging and escaping as it was able. Well there's a cathartic novel for anyone bored or interested enough to read it lol
I can relate to most of your story. Not the mother and father part… my mom stayed home and took care of us I was usually in trouble for being rebellious so I was grounded to my room a lot. Dad worked all the time. I feel like I only had friends because they felt bad for me so they included me but never did much outside of school, and the part about wanting to be a mother and wife and be valued is the ❤ of how I’ve always felt too. I’m 32 and just this year have been opened up to the fact that something’s actually affecting me and that it’s not actually normal… I’m starting a healing journey I hope but I know it’ll take quite some time.
For myself I realized my sadistic Narc Husband and Mother feed off my emotional instability and angry reactions to their immoral behaviors that's what motivated me to change the disgust I felt for their inhuman lack of care and empathy towards me and others
Just want to say that you are amazing-all the time and effort that must go into all these videos. By talking about these things in the way you do, it helps to de-stigmatize the subject of mental illness and mental health.
Thank you so much for those kind words.
This was a helpful topic and it helped me think about the difference between guilt and shame. I didn't really know there was one and now I do!
Shame= you are bad
Guilt= you did a bad. It's helpful to me because if you focus on behavior it really is more productive than believing you're bad and just gonna fuck up again. Wallowing in shame or believing you're bad is almost a lazy way to excuse bad behavior and we all need to understand that being accountable for our behavior is more helpful than whether at our core we are "good or bad."
Thank you Dr Grande. I find your videos very informative and create more clarity in mind in regards to understanding psychological dynamics. I pledge to watch all the commercials and not skip any to help support your channel. Thanks again!
When my former bpd friend lashed out at me, projecting and what not, it always came as a suprise when I told him a couple of days later how hurt I was. He never reflected on his actions towards me. Ever. Just ”I apologize for being an asshole” and wanted to move on quickly.
But those ”apologies” has nothing to do with me, or with the hurtful action or the content of his words.
I understand now it is strong shame he feels after an episode, directed towards the self.
Thank you so much, Dr. Grande. That was immensely helpful and came just at the right time. Things you suspect about the bpd person all along but you just can't accept because he is utterly charming and fascinating in the beginning. It's all so clear now. I'm going to watch all of your videos. Wish you all the best!!!
So much content, and so little time! I really appreciate the care you give to explaining the studies, both verbally and in writing, which are being conducted on psychological nuance. I look forward to watching and then re-watching your informative videos.
Thank you!
Thank you for speaking about the nuance of how this disorder can present itself in different people - it is so frustrating to be painted as a stereotype by so many people on UA-cam who discuss BPD. Your presentation of this information is really helpful and hopefully will help to end the intense stigma around BPD!
You're welcome!
thegirlinterruptedd BORDERLINES are known abusers hence the stigma.. hell even clinicians say Avoid them‼️
Thank you Dr. Grande-this topic provided excellent content. Also thank you for daily questions and analyses, and Bob Newhart humor.
Thanks for this, I have been diagnosed with it last month and it has cleared many questions.
Interesting concept. Shame and guilt can reek havoc. Coming from someone struggling with MDD
You would make a great Star Trek Vulcan Medical Officer. Love your content!
Great video doctor grande. Love the vids. I feel like my psychological awareness has been improved as a result of watching your vids.
Great video... Thank You for Your work :) I feel some relief... After 2 years of watching psychologists on UA-cam and reading some books - I've just found what my problem is. The exaggerated gilt and shame (even for things I've done many years ago) just blow my mind so many times - getting me into sleeplessness and finally psychosis or depression. Maybe I've got BPD...
Thank you for what you do.
Once again Dr Grande has laid down the facts; made it easy in this world of massive information tech. Thank you for your help Dr.
You are quite welcome!
''You clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews. You have granted me life and steadfast love, and your care has preserved my spirit.''- Job 10:11-12
I have expressed anger in a constructive manner many times. If the person you are expressing anger or even disappointment to is a narcissist you will be shamed for simply having those feelings. The mental health professionals I've been with don't have that level of honesty. They would rather have clients who are pleasant to work with. Expressing feelings with these "professionals" however constructively or calmly is dismissed.
Very informative, thank you
Dear Doctor...thank you
Overwhelming guilt & shame is so toxic for me; my go to crutch is cutting when I feel this way. I take a clean, new razor blade & I cut the insides of my upper thighs, it takes minute or so to see the blood, then I start to feel numb instead of ashamed & guilty - the blood is the tears I shed & vengeance to the one who made me
You are brilliant thank you
Thank you very much
The shame and guilt runs deep. I was the first person on the scene of a fatal accident. I had medical training, the person still died. Later that week the news paper wrote a little blip, kind of portraying me as a hero. I already felt suicidal with guilt. The news paper article lead to an even deeper shame, I was so useless I let someone die.
I've been addressing this issue, among others for over a year in counseling.
If I really think about it now I know I shouldn't feel like that at all. But it's only with deep thought and reflection. My automatic feelings about the situation are still shame and guilt.
Dr. Grande isn't it true that there is a difference between the experience of short term guilt when realizing that some responsibility as been overlooked and the kind of guilt experience which feels and looks a lot like ruminating in and running around in circles? The experience of self-directed internal behavior contempt during social dominance behavior while trying to cause shame in another person is of course a far different than the former inner experience I just mentioned called - short term guilt until a responsibility overlooked gets filled. A responsibility like doing whatever it takes to help clear up only a couple of simple misunderstandings at work after some rule changes there between a few people instead of blowing it up all up out proportion in making it seem to others like it is a couple of insurmountable problems unless one or more of the other employees and/or students leave the premises for good.
Interesting take. I have to say I think the path forward should be focused more on getting to the root of shame feelings, probably leftover from previous experiences, rather than trying to pile guilt on top of them. But these connections are interesting, particularly the relationship between shame and anger. I’ve always suspected shame played a major role in the disorder but hadn’t made that connection.
Higher levels of shame and lower physical aggression: belief that one’s physical abilities will not carry them physically. They are fully ashamed of all abilities in all circumstances
I haven’t been diagnosed with BPD only major depression but I think I have BPD with outbursts of rage and then feel shame afterwards then it becomes guilt it’s a horrible feeling when I’m angry I cannot control it and I become physically aggressive it’s terrible. I am emotional mess, I can’t stand myself sometimes, those who know me say I’m a ticking bomb.
How old u were when u found it out ? I think my ex has it and he doest know he thinks he is mayor depression too . I wish help him but he let me for other woman idk
I have BPD, but instead of being frantically trying to keep relationships, I could care less who comes or goes. I don’t cry at funerals. I can’t ATTACH to ANYONE.
Victoria Morgan feels like I’m heading this way
No borderline can attach to anyone, you are just honest about it. Attachment would require you to be able to deal with your emotions and to have an actual self.
Borderlines simply seek people who have addictive personalities, and basically pay for companionship with sex. What else can it be, if you are unable to deal with your emotions? If you can never be truly sorry, never experience real quilt etc.
Even the fake attachment is done behind a mask, a fictional person is formed that is the copy of the other. This personality can be then disposed if necessary, if the person no longer provides what is required.
Purely instrumental relationships, where borderlines violently force the person to play the role of the "good mother".
BPD don't try and keep relationship... They try their best to find reasons for it to not work... Then break up
@@Nobody-Nowhere I really care about and want to help my friend and be there for them, however from most of the comments I've read, including yours, it seems like its the equivalent of trying to get a robot to love you. No matter how realistic its actions and responses may appear..no matter how much you love it, the robot in incapable of loving you back. Its just running a program and you will never feel valued, be loved, or appreciated! Essentially you'll just be stimuli and entertainment to that person. The darker side of it all is when the person with BPD doesn't seek treatment because of denial, laziness, ego, or refusal to take responsibility or accountability for their actions. Perhaps they just think its okay to treat people in such an abhorrent manner and are fully aware of the abuse and hurt they're inflicting on others and they seemingly sadistically do it on purpose as a means of making everyone around them feel the pain they're feeling.
A "thought process" sort of like:
"I'm going to punish you because I don't know how to deal with my emotions. And when you have expressed feelings for me, instead of reciprocating, I think of all my insecurities and hidden low self esteem issues and I panic and become defensive out of fear that you might see them or see the real me, so I punish you and abuse you for loving me Because deep down inside your attempt to love me reminds that im not good enough to be loved, (stemming from perceived abandonment by father) im now the way I'm going to punish you is by manipulating you, toying with your emotions, then im going to abuse you, so you feel hurt just like I do. Their number one fear is abandonment while simultaneously doing EVERYTHING they can think of to turn people off and push people away.
Its virtually impossible to not get hurt and sustain severe emotional damage by the person with untreated BPD. Resulting in the people around them needing therapy as well.
Hvala!
Keep the good work
Thank you!
I have a contradiction when it comes to blame. I blame myself for everything, I don't push it off onto other people.
Then do you repeat the behavior?
Everyone awakens on their own timeline. The easiest way to shake off all old patterns and beliefs is detoxification & meditation..just for those who wanna attempt a solution or to ease the magnitude of the symptoms..ease the mind. Gut Brain Health... i suppose. It takes lots of time and experimentation..healing is a process..
Hi Dr. Grande. Great content as always. Could you do a video about Paranoid PD vs Narcisistic PD? Since one of the side efects of paranoia is megalomania, it can sometimes lead to a wrong diagnosis.
I will add this to my production list. Thank you!
Could you please produce this kind of videos again, Dr Grande!?
Powerful info. I had grasped how unconstructive it is to blame others but did not realize that this was linked to shame.
I feel shame for just existing, but I think it's a symptom of my social anxiety. I want to know what's the root cause of all this.
My ex would break up with me every week for different reasons.. Like she wasn't good enough...to my family is too cold. To im always going to cheat. I never ever cheated in my life... Always a different reason and always before the weekend.. She lives 58 km away 1hour drive... I had to drive up every weekend to save the relationship... If I didn't reply on time or my phone is off im automatically cheating... And I get dumped and blocked... I went on a hike with my friends and she decides she going to leave now while we were halfway on the hike... So we had to cut the hike short... Because she felt abandoned. And left my house unlocked... Screaming over the phone with so much hate and angry... No fight ever gets resolved.old issue you think got resolved get brought up and is escalated she escalates an argument and gets super angry and abusive by making her own crazy illogical connections spamming msgs I can't even get a chance to reply.... Bam... Blocked... She would phone my work to make sure im there on weekends because im taking too long to reply( busy working ). I contacted her ex... And she did exactly the same to him... She really traumatised me... She said the most hurtful things.. Extremely abusive... And she never admits she has a problem, she believes there's nothing wrong with her.. And she always right.. Even if you prove her wrong she doesn't accept it.. And apparently, if I don't adopt her way of controlling a relationship im going to get cheated on... She doesn't believe in privacy or boundaries if you have them you cheating... Abe she LIES... Omg she would lie about everything.. Naturally most of the lies get exposed... But I will never know the try extent if the lies... Shes probably the biggest liar I ever met...and always the victim... Life is Always unfair to her... Always saying im lucky coz I have a good job... I'm much smater than her and caught her lying alot.. Should have never let that red flag go... I hate liars
Would it be possible to explore prolonged emotional dissociation in regards to BPD? I’ve been in a constant state of dissociation for over 2 weeks, triggered by a break up with my daughters father (who has bpd and npd). I would like to understand it more.
What I've noticed is that most untreated people with BPD (I'm not sure I've experienced anyone with treated BPD and it seems to be rare) are able to feel regret. Regret for the way their own negative actions have affected themselves. I have not noticed any kind of remorse from people with untreated BPD. Remorse for the way their negative actions have affected other people.
The untreated BPD is almost entirely incapable of recognizing or empathizing with the way their actions affect other people. Which is where the constant victim hood comes into play.
Unfortunately I've currently been having to learn this the hard way.
Imo the borderline feels it, but quickly buries it & rationalizes it away. The sociopath or narcissistic never feel guilt, so there's nothing to bury that's the difference to me between the disorders
God I'm so sorry you had to experience this. It can be so hard to deal with someone who has BPD when it's untreated. Even treated or in treatment, it can still be rough, as the road to self-awareness can be long and winding. In my experience, if you sit the person with BPD who hurt you down and talk through why they hurt you and how it affected you, and you really tell them how you feel and how you've suffered, they will hopefully empathize with you. You might need to ask them to recount their actions and thoughts or to try to put themselves in your place, but I think for some people with BPD it will work, because some people with BPD have incredible empathy. Unfortunately, it may take some understanding for them to engage that empathy in the specific situation in which they're feeling incredible shame. It may take tremendous patience from you, but hopefully having that recognition of wrongdoing from them will be worth it. Of course, you may want to reach out to them after they've seeked treatment for some time. And sometimes you might want to just cut them off. All feelings are valid
18 months dealing with this shit then she pre emotive cheated ans blames me
Can you please speak about …Shame more? Like shame of not having things that matter to us a lot ….and not being even able to talk about them in therapy
This video was very interesting. I would appreciate your analysis of the Keli Lane Australian murder conviction of daughter Teagan Lane in 1996.
What is your opinion on shame and guilt being deflected onto partners, family and friends because the borderline can't deal with it? My partner, his daughter and I are trying to deal with this in his ex-wife's behaviour. She always had a serious spending addiction and it became a big part of the end of the marriage because she wouldn't get therapy for it and blamed him for being a "control freak". After she divorced him she blew through the entire $350K she got in the settlement in 5 years and is now broke, but is trying to "guilt" everyone into thinking it's all everyone else's fault.
That's interesting shame and guilt while they seem the same are different similar to sign and symbol.
Just so you know, this video was helpful to me (like your other ones) but I'm too ashamed to like it. I don't want Google to know.
Hi, Would you do a video to confirm if there is a relation between MTBI and Personality Disorders?
Ty
There's not.
Dr. Grande don't all people in the cluster B range of personality disorders share feelings of shame to some degree or other? After all, to understand the emotion of shame well enough to feign that emotions which is hard to hide after experiencing guilty feelings people in the cluster B range who do not have Borderline Personality Disorder the person who shares in the other cluster B personality traits would have had to experience it themselves at least once in life. Another question I have is since because in most families male children are encouraged more often to take risks in life more than female children are wouldn't that be one of the reasons why females are diagnosed with Borderline PErsonality Disorder more often? Furthermore, since people with Borderline Personality Disorder tend to limit their destructive behavior more towards only themselves while taking too many risks to do so what is to say that men with the same Borderline PErsonality behavior patterns being carried into early adulthood in some cases after starting to feel more in a safer to themselves environment go on to express and develop more and more as they reach around age 30 the kind of behavior patterns we see expressed in people with the other cluster B Personality Disorder traits while adapting to whatever environmental contributing factors are around them besides the factor of continuing to be encouraged in taking unnecessary risks to others. Taking unnecessary risks to others like purchasing a weapon or while being only a business man insisting that some of their employees carry a weapon for the sole purpose of maybe killing other human beings when that isn't part of their assigned paid by any municipal or federal government role. And so in a way all people from the cluster B Personality Disorder range could be said to have only mild to severe Borderline Personality Disorder brought on perhaps by not getting enough aromatic protein nourishment while in the womb and/or some degree or other of child abuse, child endangerment through violence towards them or child abandonment and child neglect in for example a war zone around many exhibiting the very worst behavior of all which always is a part of war...
Do you think BPD and CPTSD are similar ? In Australia Cptsd is not a diagnosis yet .My therapist said because the two are very similar .
There are similarities between the two but they are different xxx
@@RecoveryMum
Thank you for your reply .
I'm diagnosed PTSD but I believe I'm Cptsd so does my therapist .
Although I've read they are very similar.
Xo
@@southernland425 I am in recovery from bpd and have done a video before called bpd vs cptsd. Ptsd is generally caused by a one off traumatic event. Cptsd is caused by on-going or long term trauma - such as an abusive childhood or if someone has been sold into slavery/sex trade - obviously they are not the only ways it can be caused - but abuse that someone felt they couldnt escape from. Many people (but not all) with bpd have suffered abuse, neglect or trauma in their pasts. Im sorry to hear you are suffering with ptsd. Big hugs! Xxx
Dr. Grande's video on the difference between BPD and CPTSD ua-cam.com/video/aUv-_3aiNTc/v-deo.html
@@RecoveryMum
Awesome I'll watch it .
I'm 50 and just starting my healing with neuro feedback therapy and EMDR .
I agree with you .I was traumatized on so many occasions in childhood up until I was 42 . So I believe I have Cptsd but I'm diagnosed PTSD . ultimately I'm no longer a victim I'm a survivor .I think that's the most important thing out of everything .
So awesome your in recovery.
I'll go and watch your videos .
Thank you xo big hugs to you too xo
I have bpd , when I feel shame, I get uncontrollably aggressive and can’t help it. But I’d be in a depressed state, I’ll be drained out of all physical energy to be physically aggressive.
He said it was difficult to control, not impossible, the only one who can try harder to control it is you. Calling your aggression uncontrollable is placing blame in the wrong place.
Is it true that codependents and borderline are both caused from shame?
i just wish i'd stop having thoughts altogether
When I was six years old my stepmother left me in a doorway with a note saying not wanted.....
Oh my God I’m so sorry this happened to you. I hope in time you were able to see this has everything to do with her and not you.
I hate that you had to go through that. But that just speak about what kind of person she is or was. Never about you. Please tell you inner child how wonderful and valuable it is…keep up the fight!!!
My guilt and shame is intense, but has nothing to do with anger, so where does that leave my BPD?
I wonder if shame is a protective mechanism. Not only because anger seems to mitigate and numb other negative feelings, but also because it takes responsibility off of the person. If you believe you are flawed, there is a lot of doubt in your true abilities. Then you externalize all your power to others and you also question your abilities to withstand the difficulties of altering your behavior and take the sting off your negative inner feelings by externalizing them while strawmanning the situation. It would be like you knowing you did wrong, but you don't want to invest into changing in addition you might fail to change if you tried and feel worse. So instead you say others are "making" you feel bad about yourself, I guess I am bad and so I cannot change who I am. Then "they" are saying you're bad instead of to be more pro-social. It would be a lot of mental gymnastics but at one point all we had was time. I'm sure most of us where more free and less distracted, and therefore kind of less shielded from the power of emotions and less in control of the occurrence of provocative situations. Things become automatic and difficult to trace. The conjecturing is kind of pointless but I just wonder how plausible this could be?
It's funny I feel more guilty and shame when I Don't or Can't indicate myself ....even if anger or loud emotions are visible
What’s the difference between shame and just feeling bad about yourself?
I feel like I have BPD but my psychiatrist just says it's ADHD. Idk what to do
Why doesn’t this disorder have mania. With the shame and guilt wouldn’t there be low and high mood swings?
so the person I know feels shame ...
Bpd-s are codependent
I am curing my soul with N.A. program every single day
It's a good thing I'm not a therapist... BPD girl tells me she is a bad person but won't say why, but I happen to know it's because she does X, repeatedly, and she's contemplating suicide yadda yadda but seems incapable of considering cessation of X and denies ever having done it and calls me a bad friend for insinuating such a thing... My patience for this nonsense is about naught point zero zero zero zero zero one.
In time, I've come to believe that I had romanticized the notion of "redemption" and fixing oneself (I blame Hollywood), but it seems, in reality, that most broken people will never fix themselves....
As I said.. it's a good thing I'm not a therapist...
Speaking of therapists .. one day she ABRUPTLY had to switch therapists, it was an emergency but she never said why... I have two theories, each quite plausible. Regardless of which it were -- it was that day I realized why therapy probably would never fix her.
I don't talk to her anymore, well deliberately, but I'm pretty sure every now and then she creates a fake sock account and friends me with it. I can usually tell it is her, because the person reacts ... oddly ... if I mention something she knows is about her, even if I don't specify who I'm talking about
She also sends me hidden messages in songs as the person -- so I guess she knows I know it's her, just .. uh ... I'm supposed to pretend like I don't.... I don't actually know what game she's playing, but I've considered leaving social media permanently over it and I am quite suspicious of all new interactions and friend requests etc
Where does all the guilt and shame come from ? I don't think babies are born with this social knowledge . In my case two F...dup NPD parents used their eldest daughter (whom they seemed to have a strong belief that she would serve the role of family servant from infancy on from what I can tell ) did everything to scrape any shame and guilt they carried onto her . SOMEBODY had to be the scapegoat and I was made to be it . At 30 , married , 3 kids and despite having thought that I was mostly clear of their poison mouths after years of concentrated effort to 'keep me in the fold' they showed up at my house on my birthday . They proceeded to tell me that I 'must be depressed at turning 30 ' , being 'SO OLD' , 'older than us' etc . As this nonsense wasn't having the desired effect , they switched to telling me that 'you must feel GUILTY for owning a house when your brother doesn't' etc etc . This was one of the last times I ever allowed these shitty acting buggers into my home .
From sexual abuse they were subjected to I believe.
I mistook this channel for TVFilthyFrank LOOL :D
BPD are badasses not dependable people
The only cure for BPD is JESUS. I have TRIED EVERYTHING else. Nothing else stabilises me. My guilt and shame were paid for when JESUS died on The Cross.