Loading The 357 Magnum For Our Rifle / Handgun Paired Battery
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2022
- Having the same ammo for both our rifle and handgun has been a popular concept ever since the Westward Movement after the Civil War. And the 357 Magnum has been one of America's favorite calibers since its introduction in 1935. Let's put the two together for reloading primary ammo for our 357 Magnum two gun paired battery...We'll use Lyman and Lee reloading gear for this video...
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It's difficult to find 357mag loads that work well in both handgun and long gun, especially when it comes to hollowpoint expansion. It seems hand loading is clearly the best way to make it happen. I wish I'd gotten into hand loading before the world went crazy. I didn't really pick up shooting until about 2015, and I was just looking into reloading at the end of 2019. You all know how that story ended. Maybe someday it'll be feasible again to make the investment because it looks like a lot of fun.
The answer to your dilemma is a semi-wadcutter bullet, if worried about lead then coat them - liquid alox or one of the new coatings.
Herb - We've seen supply and price problems in the past, but things settled back down. Inflation is on-going so prices will settle down on par with the inflation. But with the policies coming out of DC, this time the problems will take longer to settle down. It will happen though. So look forward to doing some good reloading...The Hornady XTP bullet has been designed to expand at lower velocities and yet still hold together at magnum. As RS says below, cast bullets give a good option, especially in SWC persuasion as that happens to be a very fine hunting bullet cast a bit on the softer side. Steve
I've carried and reloaded for both handgun and rifle in .357 mag. caliber for a lot of years. I used a Rossi Puma model .357 rifle and as a truck gun in the ranch truck until I wore it out. I have learned I like a 140 grain bullet the best for the rifle and a 158 grain bullet for the handguns. Either round will work in either handgun or rifle. I have no load manuals that show any loads for the rifle that is heavier than loads for the pistol but the longer barrel of the rifle increases velocity a lot. 357 is an amazing cartridge that brought home a lot of game including 3 elk.
My choice was to go with the 158 grain XTP-FP bullet version. I use my 357 Mag carbine for protection up north from black bears, wolves, coyotes and cougars. I wanted a bit more penetration capability than the 125 grain offers. The load I made up is this bullet with 15.2 grains of H110. Seems to work really well in carbine (Winchester 1873) and my Smith 686s with 4 and 6 inch barrels.
Well this is just serendipity. I was actually developing my own handloads just this past weekend for combined 357 revolver and rifle. I tested a dozen different powders with the 125 gr Hornady XTP and GFL/Fiocchi brass. The fastest was 300-MP powder, the most accurate was 2400 but the best overall was Vihtavuori N-110. It gave the best combination of speed, accuracy and had the lowest SD and ES of all the powders. In my 6" Ruger GP-100 and my 16" Marlin CST (using the max load per Vihtavuori manual of 18.4gr) I was getting an average of 1450 FPS in my Ruger and 2100 FPS in my Marlin rifle. My SD's were less than 10 and my groups with both were only about 1.5" (pistol at 15yrd and rifle at 35yrd). Recoil was stout, I won't lie, but the overall result was worth it. As always, load carefully, never exceed published max load data and use at your own risk.
Mike - Yes indeed, serendipity..!! And your SD points are well taken - H110 and WW296 are the flamethrowing powders, but the SDs are not impressive. High SDs in our handgun ammo have little effect inside of 25 yards, or even our short rifles out to 50 yards. That's where your VV powders would come in - fine powders, pricey, but many say worth it. We wind up with Fiocchi brass because we bought the factory ammo at reasonable pricing before the flap. The 300MP powder is intriguing - I'll be a-pouncing on that if and when I ever see that one. But the Ramshot powders are also mighty interesting. Thanks for bringing 2400 into the mix...I'm really low on 2400 at this time - saving it for my 44 Mag Keith loads (really no need with Enforcer on hand). These are some very powerful and effective loads. My velocities are the same as yours, except my shorty Win94 only gets 2000 fps. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC Steve, thanks for the reply! Seems like we were both on the same reloading quest. Like you, I have plenty of 296 and H110 powder (they are currently available), but when I tested them I got oddly low velocity from them in my 6" Ruger GP-100 (only an average of 1,383) and it required a compressed load at that. Plus, 296 gave me such large SD and ES numbers along with only acceptable accuracy, that I just decided to go with the more consistent VVN-110. I was able to find 2, 4lb containers of VVN-110, so I'm set in that department. But you make a very good point about SD and ES not really being important inside of 50 yards. But for reloaders like us who obsess over these kinds of minutiae, it seems like a personal goal to make the very best ammo for one's self. May your reloading supplies be large and your groups small! -Mike
P.S. With the 300-MP powder I was getting an average of 1,483 fps in my Ruger and just over 2,200 fps in my 16" Marlin CST! Probably too much for the 125gr XTP to handle.
I love watching your videos your a true professional.
Heeeeeeey Fortune Cookie! You are just bad to the bone Sir which isn’t prevalent these days! Thank you sir for all you do!
Nicely done sir! I always enjoy your channel and the methods you employ. Thank you... That pistol and rifle combination gets put to use here in both .357Mag and .45 Colt.
This was like watching my loading rig, but only modern. Here, a 1960 vintage Lyman SparT turret press and early Lyman AA carbide dies are used along with an Ideal/Lyman #55 powder measure. Been using the same rig since '60, along with a Lyman Spartan press and a vintage Ideal No.5 powder measure from the early 1900's my great uncle gave me.
AAR - I remember that SparT Lyman press in the gun magazines and Gun Digest back in the 60s. The early carbide dies were expensive until Lee came along and blew all the die makers out of the water with their less expensive carbide dies - good dies as well = high value to reloaders - got a lot of reloaders onto Lee products. Keep on truckin' with those Lyman / Ideal products..!! Steve
Great demonstration on the " How to Load ".. The explanation of what you were doing and why is a big help to anyone learning or brushing up on reloading. Thanks FC45
Lazer - Note that I still keep a bit of nebulosity in the mix so that the sensitivities might not be stirred past the point of conflagration, wherence that might reside.... Best to ya, Steve
Good job Cookie! Great looking ammo for arguably the world's most versatile handgun round. Thanks for posting on YT.
LH - The reloaded ammo rivals factory ammo in every way. It really is a pleasure to make ammo like that - some of our other handgun rounds have little bulges that really amount to nothing in terms of performance, but just show us that there are slight imbalances in our dies and components so that the ammo doesn't quite turn out pristine like factory ammo. But when things are in real balance, the ammo just looks perfect. But again, performance is foremost...we get that and we smile up a storm, and the ammo is all beautiful... Have a great day, Steve
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
I recently bought a 4” Ruger Security 6. I’ve been “Nerding” out on videos and this is one of them. Good stuff! Earned my sub!
"To Maximum pressure" Steve, gotta love your comment !!!!
MTM - I sure love your comment as well, and thanks for it..!! Steve
It's nice to have all the same brass so there is consistent depth on the seating.
Thanks Steve for sharing, I love the same loads for my Rugers as in my Marlin
rifle for Cowboy, hard when it's range brass and seating depth can vary !!
Love those old Winchester Western metal powder cans, today everything is plastics. Very informative and helpful video, including historical content.
Sd - Thanks for posting. And yes, I had all those old powder cans - just threw so many of 'em away, never once thinking that saving them might be a good idea for the future. I do have some old ones that I saved just because there were a few granules of powder left in 'em - the thinking was that I'd just be getting more, and I'd pour the last contents into the next can. Even the old factory ammo boxes are links to the past that are so great to take in and handle... Many of the newer shooters will never contemplate any of this until the passage of time.... Best to ya, Scott..!! Steve
Nicely presented 👍
Grate looking bullets thanks for the video
I just bought some Hornady 158gr xtp bullets to try with H110.
Hello to ya, JBO..!! A lot to like with those XTPs in 158 grain or 125 grain persuasion.... Good reloadin' and good shootin' to ya with those, Steve
I loaded a few of these 158 g with H-110 and while it shot very good it was very flashy. Big muzzle flash more like a ball of flame at the end of the barrel.
Thanks
Before I loaded my own, I shot a ton of the Red Army Standard, steel case, 230 grain FMJ’s. Shot pretty well in all my 1911’s.
Interesting. I have never recrimped the final crimp. I will have to try that. Thanks
maronman556 - Only reason I do that is that I feel a bit more crimp happening with the second strike - like minting coins - the second strike. We'd have to do a concerted study to find out if it has any benefit at all...But once you feel what happens on the second strike, you might develop your own opinion on this... Best to ya, Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC next time I reload some straight case revolver cartridges I will take a first and second look at the crimp up close with a magnifying glass and see if I can tell a difference.
LOVE the M-die's..... I ran 4,000 9x19s thru the whole process on my single stage press, all ready to go IF I ever get primers again....... I've been crazy busy with 9mm finding a GOOD load for carbines that works 'good' in pistols and virsy visey... LOL ... lots of flat nose 125& 158 s were tried.. ALMOST there......
Hello to ya, Rob..!! Indeed, lots to like about the M dies. Relosders have been appreciating those M dies for decades. Good reloadin' to ya - and someday soon, we hope, we'll be saying Primers Ahoy..!! Steve
Good stuff as always! I've got a Henry in 38/357 and a S&W 686. I've only loaded 158 grain so far. I'll have to get some of the lighter 125's to try. Thanks! 👍
That is what I bought as well!
Love your videos love the information thanks I'm just getting into reloading 357 mag/38 special so I've been looking for some advice I've loaded other pistol calibers like 9mm 45acp tho have you ever used power pro 300 mp before?
Great video Steve, I do the same here except I have the Ruger Blackhawk and the Henry Rifle and reload with RCBS equipment for the same loads and purpose. I use the rifle for deer hunting and it works great in Ohio woodlands.
+1 for mentioning the 44 WCF aka 44-40. My 1873 and Schofield are chambered in that.
John Cooper - You'd have a great discussion with Walter Bunning - he really likes the 44-40 - just got a revolver in that.... Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Both of my die sets seat the bullet and crimp it in the same throw of the lever. I think they're both RCBS sets.
Use one for seating and the other for crimping.
I never got into the .357 lever guns, but absolutely love a good .357 revolver. That said, I would argue 9mm is the modern interpretation of this. If you're crafty you can end up with a sub2k, AR or other firearm that even uses the same mags as your pistol.
Good powder selection makes or breaks this conceptually IMO. In 9mm I found out that shooting Blue Dot from a 4" barreled pistol vs a 16" AR resulted in significant velocity difference while using Titegroup made almost no difference in velocity.I was totally amazed that 12" of barrel netted something like 10-15FPS with Titegroup.
thetriode - It's because of the fast spikey burn rate of Titegroup. Any powders from medium burning Unique to slower will give you the fps you would expect from longer carbine barrels. I could easily get 2100+ fps with 125 grainers using slow handgun powders like H110, WW296, AA9, 2400, Lil Gun, Enforcer, 4227 and with heavier bullets, 4227, and even 1680. Thanks for your interesting comments - good info we can pass on.... Steve
Great video FortuneCookie45LC. This video makes me want to go and reload the 200 hundred 357 mag and 300 or so 44 mag brass that I’ve had laying around for a few years waiting to be reloaded .
CSH - Thanks for all your fine comments CSH..!! No need to load up all of 'em unless you plan to do some big range session. Even going out into the field, loading 50 rounds is plenty. These days, we need to keep primer flexibility, and having hundreds of 'em in committed ammo reduces that flexibility. Whatever, you know what you need better than anyone else.... Good reloadin' to ya..!! Steve
It's a good idea to check case length before flaring the case. Cases of different lengths will cause problems with the crimp process.
If your case length is off you shouldn't be using that case at all.
I think one of my books said only back off 296 3 % from full charge ???
Great video FC45,
I don't have any Winchester 296 powder. ( I have Winchester 244 ) But I'm going to try the .125gr. Hornady XTP's using VIHTAVUORI N350 SLOW HANDGUN POWDER loaded to maximum pressures for my .357 mag. handgun and rifle.
I usually load 158gr. Hornady XTP's for my .357mags. , but I like the idea of trying the .125gr.
Well you be doing a range test on these soon?
I like heavy bullets myself. 125 grain a little light for me.
Hey FC45, looking good brother. I also have a paired battery, a 3" Ruger GP100 and a Rossi M92 Puma with a 20" barrel in 357 Magnum. I load the 158 XTP over a big charge of VV N105 and turn up 1300 in the pistol and almost 1900 in the rifle, Big Boy loads for sure and I don't shoot a lot of them preferring a mid charge of H110 or Titegroup. The TG/158 XTP are my bread and butter loads.
Ken - Nothing wrong with middle of the road loads - they are much more pleasureable to shoot and easier on the whole 3 Circles (shooter, gun, ammo) to boot.... Good shootin' to ya with those Vhitavouri powders... Steve
Do you use that load on deer?
I came to that idea 35 years ago with Rossi saddle gun and a couple of gp100s. Was about to do the same with my Henry 45 colt, was about to close the deal on a 454 super redhawk but Covid and shortage and and,. Now the chances of finding a super redhawk caliber in 454 is… Nonetype..
EC - Indeed, difficult but not impossible to find what we want...These are times to test our patience... Best to ya, Steve
Do you have any advice for doing .38 special out of a lever gun with plated bullets? I’ve seen the warnings not to exceed 1200 fps, having trouble finding data on .38s out of a lever action.
Awesome Content! When Ukraine was invaded, I thought to myself there is a possibility where I ma find myself camping, hunting, fishing or being ready for almost anything, so I bought A Henry Lever action .357 & a Smith & Wesson. 357 revolver & I really like that setup.
What year did you buy your Trapper carbine in .357? I bought mine new in '01 give or take a year for under $500.
I tell you what Steve it's like I was doing the reloading. Everything you have used is the same as I use accept for the powder measurer. I only use the M die fory expanding. Have you ever had any issues with the brass mouth getting thinner then the rest of the case walls. I have had a few cases break off at the base of the expanded mouth. It only happens on brass that has been reloaded a few times. I think that it's not a big deal but it's a pain in the neck. It has only happened a few times but it's something that I look out for. Just asking. Did loads of bacon make that ring on your turret of your press? I like it and want to get one when I get back to reloading. I'm also going to get a electronic powder drop like you use. I have always wanted one. One more question. I have 2 cases of the tula large pistol primers and haven't used them before. What do you think of them. They must be good because you are using them. I got a deal on them a few years ago. I think I paid $140 per case. This was before everything went screwy. I restocked my primers and powder at the right time. I try to keep 2 cases of each size primer both standard and magnum. I feel bad because everyone is fighting to just buy a brick of primers these days and I'm sitting on a few cases of them and I can't shoot legally. Of coarse I don't 5ake any chances and i just packed everything away. I don't like to break the law even if I think the law is unjustified. Especially when it comes to my firearms. Any way I wish I could talk to you live. If you want to call me you can. My phone number is 815-520-0922. I think it would be nice to actually talk to you instead of using the internet. Im just like that. Anyway I hope to hear from you some day. I'm just catching up on your videos. I haven't been getting any notifications. I always love your videos. Thank you very much for spending half a day reading this. 😁 You are a good man. Happy Safe Shooting.🇺🇸💪
I am loading a 158 gr Hornady xtp bullet with AA #9. It says the 158 has a max limit of 1500 fps. Is that safe to shoot out of a 24" barrel lever gun, or would the hollow point expand too quickly?
That’s a great little model 94 357 magnum there Cookie , don’t ever sell it mate .
CSH - Amazingly, there were months when Big 5 ads were featuring the Win 94 Trapper in 357, 44 and 45 caliber - racks of 'em with no hurry to buy them. I finally bought one in 357 caliber, standing there at Big 5 "thinking about" whether I should buy it or not, intending on getting the other calibers eventually. OK, I "broke down" and bought the rascal. Competition pistol shooting and the High Power rifle competition got in the way. Little did I know that I'd be a lot happier today if I had just pulled the trigger back then... Best to ya, Steve
A moment of silence for the end of readily available cheap and decent ruski primers.
LV - Putin has put a black mark on his country and everything Russian for many years to come. Hopefully, we'll be able to get primers imported from Bulgaria or Czech in the near future - they make good primers as well, and we are hungry for them. Our domestic brands seem to all be going to the military or to our DHS. Why they need all the primers more than in the past is up to conjecture. Best regards, Steve
That is news I can use! Yes it is curious about the DHS.
Damn! 20 grains?
357 with lead 158 flat nose on black powder, whay about that?
Hell yeah! It'll work like magic. 357 mag is an excellent cartridge for BP.
Im getting set to load some holy black 44 mag for an R92.
Another great video! Would the 230 grain Thunderhead work?
TT - That bullet is just too plain long and flat - If we get the seating OK, they'd be OK in single shots and revolvers, but my lever guns might choke on these. Of course, I'd have to try 'em out before being able to say anything definitive. Heaviest I've done in this caliber is the 200 grain Lee cast, and they shoot well in revolver and lever guns. The extra 30 grains in the big flat profile would make a huge difference though, and possibly not to the better.... Good shootin' to ya, Steve
Thank you, I always look forward to your videos
Excellent thanks fc, for my combo I have a rossie 92 and blackhawk 3 screw, which I load 148 swc with AP70 powder.
For my wife I brought her henry H1 and single 6, both in .22
Thanks to watching your App press videos, I brought 1 and love it, I reload using a super simplex press (made in Australia.
Do you have any videos on 3d printed accessorys for reloading?
gavin fry - Nice rifle/handgun combos you have there..!! Too bad that Aussie press isn't marketed here in the States - Australia would be adding to their exports of Varget powder, Tim Tams and kangaroo meat. Yes, there are 3D accessories that are being made from theReloadersNetwork and others. ADI is a significant player worldwide...here in the States, it is not widely circulated. Have a great day, Steve
I've been looking to do this for the .327 and .45 Colt. I figure for .327 it'll be a 100gr with AA#9 for the max power load and something light in .32 Mag for small game.
The .45 IDK, still havent gotten a lever action yet. I guess something under a 250 gr bullet (maybe even a Matts wadcutter) would do.
Love my Single Seven in .327. Looked at getting the Henry lever gun to go with it.
Justin - I tried to get started with that with my SP101. To this day, I still consider that a grab gun for taking out the garbage or working in the front yard. We've had some attacks on home invasions in our neighborhood. If it comes to it, I'll inflict some major damage before they get me.... Best to ya, Justin Steve
Sir, what have you done with that turret press? Do you have a video on it? I MUST know! 😄
Fab7 - I've got numerous videos out using that Lyman 8 press - It's a fine press for our use. I've found that 4 out of the 8 stations produces less run out than the other 4, so I know which stations to use for precision loading and the other 4 are fine for loading up handgun ammo where a little extra run out is immaterial. Best to ya, Steve
Anyone have experience with accurate #5 and #7 powders for 38/357 ?..... & CCI small rifle primers, I have the Rossi r92 16" barrel.
Is that a Ruger blackhawk? The bluing looks sick!
ss88 - Yes, that's a Ruger Flat Top 357 with 4 5/8" barrel. It has the smaller frame and smaller grip frame. Handles all 357s like Mae West saying, "Is that all ya, got, Big Boy?" Funny, quoting MW - I don't know anything else about her. Best to ya, Steve
I have a henry steel in 357m with a 1873 cattleman 1875 remington outlaw and a automatic Coonan also in 357m . I have a glock version in 9mm still looking for a 45 colt lever action rifle to go with the 1873 cattleman chambered in 45colt / I really planned every thing in rifle /pistol with only 1 type of ammo per set
critter9a - May all your plans come to full fruition..!! Steve - and thanks for posting....
No Lee FCD to ensure chambering ?
Or is it banned by MienTube ?
I think a pistol and rifle same caliber is great idea in 357 mag but in 9mm it depends alot on the gun
Very true. Sadly 9mm doesn't gain as much velocity from a longer barrel compared to 357mag, but you do still get the other advantages of a carbine such as longer sight radius for irons and a more stable platform for magnified optics. Many people don't realize that long steel barrel sticking out front acts as a stabilizing bar, like a tightrope walker's pole. Try putting a high powered magnifier on a very short barreled platform like a PC Charger and see how squirrelly your view is when shooting offhand, even with a good cheek/shoulder weld. Obviously most people just stick with red dots on PCCs, particularly the shorter ones, but if you have a 16-18" PCC there's no reason you can't go with a 6x scope and make it a real nail driver.
@@herbderbler1585 - Great points you make, says Yoda. I remember taking my red dot sighted UZI with 16" barrel to the Saturday Night Steel shoots. All the other shooters wanted to shoot it as they mowed down the 8" plates at 20 yards like the pros on the videos of the day. They just shook their heads saying the plate racks with 9mm carbines were "a joke". Best to ya, Steve
FortunCookie45LC
i have a question that I have not been able to get a solid answer for. Sorry this is off the topic of the video. In any event I'm new to reloading and I'm going to start off loading for my Henry 45-70. The load data that i find is often titled "for Winchester 1886 and Marlin 1895 only." That being said, is my Henry modeled after either of these rile actions and thereby safe to use these published loads? Or is it a weaker design requiring lighter loads? Any recommendations?
You should contact the rifle's manufacturer with that question.
look at the hogdon reloading manual for lever action reloading
Good ideas run in the jeans. I'm enjoying a paired up S&W model 66 and 20" 1892 Miroku Winchester in 357mag. The lightest I'd go, keeping the carbine in mind, would be a 158gr of some kind. If I had to take a deer, I'd rather do that with something heavier than 125gr.
LA - Nice two gun battery there in your Smith and Winchester..!! A strong case can be made for the 158 grain XTP or Speer Deep Curl or Sierra 158s as well. You'd have a slightly better chance with raking angles on deer sized game over the 125s. But otherwise, the 125s will do quite nicely,. We'd even go to the 180 grainer JHP / JSPs if more penetration was needed like for mule deer or elk in the woods. Good shootin' to ya, Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC Yeah, I'd be staying below 100 yards with the 357mag in the carbine, to ensure good impact energy and penetration.
If six rounds of max loaded 357 doesn't do the job, you should have called in an airstrike
Betsy - I agree, yet sometimes it comes to that....recently, a friend was attacked in her own driveway in Oakland. A windowless van followed her as she came into her own neighborhood, blocked the driveway after she pulled in. Three men got out, and the leader said "Grab her..!!". Police think they were going to do a car jack. But the friend started screaming and swinging her fanny pack. She wound up tripping as she backed away, falling and hitting her head a bit as she fell. A neighbor came running out yelling, "What's going on...!!" And the three men jumped back into the van and hauled out. The friend is still getting treatments for her back - a couple of months have passed. She wants to get a home protection gun at this time. An overhead drone dropping a defined munition on that van during the attack would have been very welcomed. Sure one solid hit with the 357/125 LE load stops hostilities, but there is comfort in a 17 round magazine stuffed with 124 gr JHPs - pity we can only have 10 in CA. If the police need 17 rounds, civilians sure need the same. Best to ya, BF, and thanks for posting, Steve
I've been working with levergun/revolver pairs in several calibers. So far, I have .32-20, .357, .44 Magnum and .45 LC covered, and looking for a .22LR levergun.
I'm having problems with the 358-200 RF in the M92 and three different S&Ws due to the long bullet vs short lifter/cylinders. I'm going to have to either use .38 SPL brass or deep-seat the bullets. I'm looking for a pair of .357 Blackhawks; also planning on rechambering a pair of .30 Carbine Blackhawks to .32-20 so I can retire the 1905 ch 4 that I'm pairing with a Model 53 in that caliber.
Update: I traded for a 4-5/8" Blackhawk, traded a mold for some of the MP 357 Hammer HPs, and bought the MP 358429-HP mold. In 357 brass, both the Hammer and the 358429 are too long for the 92's lifter and the Blackhawk's cylinder, the same as the Lee 200RF. So I'm still stuck either deep-seating the bullets, trimming .357 brass down the way the FTX bullets require in the .44 Mag/45 Colt iterations, or using .38 SPL brass.
I believe a previous owner shortened the front sight on the Blackhawk because it hits radically high with any load I've tried in it. I've loaded some of the Lee 105 SWC, their little 95 RF, and some 110 XTPs to see if I can bring the POI down to a useful degree, and if that doesn't work, I'll have to get my 'smith to install a taller front sight.
If hunting white tail deer like game is part of the package I would like a heavier bullet. If the goal is to make mixed use hunting and wild west defense the 140 or 158gr. bullets may be a better choice.
Garret - Didn't mention this in the video, but a two gun combo of 357 short lever gun and 357 handgun make great home defense - 125 grainers at 2000+ fps don't tend to shoot through the outside walls of the house to endanger others in the neighborhood. Plus, like splitting playing cards at the range at 40 feet, that short lever gun is as fast as we need when the chips are down (how's that for a comparison?). It's the energy that the 125s deliver - LE used the 125s for their own reasons. I agree that for deer hunting, I'd go with the 158s. But if all I had was the 125, I wouldn't hesitate to use the 125 XTP out of my Winchester on deer providing I'd avoid the steep raking shots - just pass on those - wait until the deer turns a bit. Even on mule deer, using 158s, I'd still avoid the steep raking shots if at all possible. If in doubt, the 180 gr 357s will do in the woods. Best to ya, Garret, Steve
I hand load the rifle load data 158 grain over 16 grain of h110 and shoot it in my revolver just the same I call it the ouch rounds LMAO when you shoot it someone is gonna say ouch. When I feel it I know on the receiving end it's way worse than the recoil bite .
OK cookie white poisoning you can't just measure that in the blood that doesn't tell you anything it's anything it's skeletal lead concentrations that matter over time because it can be there for decades and then it all released back into the blood and then that's where you're gonna get damage so just because you're low cause you're low now or you were slightly high and then brought it down doesn't mean you're cumulative skeletal levels won't damage your
Not a good round for personal defense?! Wtf?! .357 is one of the BEST….. its a one hitter quitter …… anyone who says that is dumb and as far as capacity 6 ROUNDS OF .357 MAG….. cmon you can’t shoot then if you profess that! Sheesh