Hmm, how about playing Go 2 it but with modded projectiles that never collide with walls, so this kind of bullshit and chaos was even more likely to happen?
@@Mixa_Lv Are you playing with a GzDoom mod? The hit detection in GzDoom is mostly much more reliable, so in most cases it should basically not happen.
........JUST ADDING *+NOCLIP* FLAG SOLVING PROBLEM FOR EVERY KIND OF PROJECTILE .....BUT THERE'S EVEN MORE WEIRD THING......ABOUT *A_VileStart* ACTUALLY IGNORES LINE OF SIGHT......FOUND IT OUT WHEN MAKING ARCHVILE BOSS....AND FIXED SO IF NOT IN LINE OF SIGHT,NO A_VileStart =...
@@asticlolThe yellow background ones are unique and informative. The regular ones are just an unremarkable let's play. Also, your Caps Lock key seems to be broken.
As an extra fun fact, this effect is also behind the BLJ in Mario 64. In fact, all video game movement is effectively teleportation if you don't code in some sort of interpolation. If I'm not mistaken, that's what the FASTPROJECTILE flag does in GZDoom.
the overflow glitch is really fun - there's a map in NoYe called, well, Overflow, where you have to fire rockets down a corridor for two minutes and then hide in a small alcove while a couple hundred enemies spawn in front of you, eating your old rockets (and your new ones, you have to team up with your past self!)
If you're having trouble being hit by projectiles clipping through walls, then the solution is obvious: simply jump when the demon fires at you. That way, even if the projectiles do clip through the wall, they'll simply fly over your head harmlessly when they reach you!
@@Distriived That's actually a little doom community in joke, explaining why, in the original ports of the games, Doomguy can outrun a car, but can't clear a knee high ledge.
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o if the in-game "architects" for doom levels were not dead from the demon invasion they would catch such hell in court for being out of compliance with ADA
don't forget, the fact that mancubi always shoot multiple times even after their target is out of sight also makes their projectiles do this more often
"You know, whenever I want to analyse a feature in Doom I always think: huh, that's not too complicated. Finally a short analysis video that won't take me a month to make - but then I discover stuff like..."
@@sunrisejackdaw1779Explosion forms a jet of particles It functions a lot like a tickrate check to me: explosion happens at a tick, but there's a "gap" and then the jet goes through a "thin" wall since it has such high penetration
so interesting to finally have the nuts and bolts of this explained. In Map29 of Scythe the room at the top of the lift with shotgunners has mancubi outside, and that wall there is terrible at keeping their fireballs out.
I seen this mechanic used in Extermination Day on a few of the latter levels. I thought at first it was a one way wall but nope, it was an Imp behind a wall. The second time was with a hell knights but I killed it with hitscan and melee when I figured out it wasn't a custom statue wall shooting it. I couldn't kill the imp one though.
That's horrifying... Imagine a stray projectile hitting you when you're low on health, and said projectile hits you either on your way to the exit switch or when you're about to press it. Also, someone should have a Petron named "Mother Demon's Womb." or another twisted Doom-related pun for Decino to say during the Credits.
Saw this happened in Doom 2 map 8 when Looper was speedrunning. Baron from the room to the right of the exit room shot through the wall into the pre-exit room, hit Looper, and dropped him into the death pit.
Awesome video as always. Just ironic that you increased the "shout-out Patreon limit", and now it seems we're just as many (if not more) than when you inforced the new limit. Crazy. Keep it up!
Man I've been hearing random fireball explosions in my games forever, finally know what that's about. I've got a good video idea! When I'm in normal Doom 2, sometimes I'll noclip out and run in a straight line for as long as I can. Eventually, I'll start hearing aggressive monsters, even if all the monsters in the map are dead or most of em, but I'll hear a bunch of monsters, then eventually I'll end up back at the map borders because of position overflow, and the noises will stop.
Analysis videos like this really make you appreciate just how intricate and complex Doom’s programming is and how ahead of its’ time it was when it was released.
It's amazing how many small details there are, I dread the day you genuinely run out of things to explain Do you see yourself doing these kinds of videos for other games in the future?
That answers that mystery from Hell Revealed! I just recently watched that video and remember how confused you were about it at the time. It’s very interesting to now learn how that happened and I can appreciate it even more for how truly rare that actually was! Thanks for this video!
Another "yellow video" topic suggestion: I was always really amazed about Doom's lighting system, especially in terms of rendering its world in the original 8 bit video mode. The rendered colors of a texture or a sprite depends on the brightness of the sector and the distance from the player, except when using light amplification, when everything is rendered with their original colors (I guess). I would really love to learn about how this is achieved. What palette is used and how are the rendered colors mapped to achieve that shading? Is there a restriction for usable colors for the textures and sprites? Is the palette temporarily altered when using a rad suit, berserk or invincibility and when receiving damage? I suspect so but then how is it achieved in invincibility mode that the sky and the HUD remains unchanged? Do they use separate palette colors? It would mean that all textures are allowed to use just a strict subset of palette entries to work properly. Some specific textures (eg. lamp and candles) remain always bright even in the dark or from far away. Are they just left out from shading or do they use specific palette entries that are simply not transformed? Or isn't there any restriction for the textures and is everything just quantized to a generic static 8 bit palette (eg. RGB332)? Of course, all of these are not relevant when using modern Doom engines with 32 bit rendering. But achieving all this using just 256 colors... it must have been quite challenging.
I haven't tried, but I believe the vertical angle is too steep for projectiles to hit Romero's Head without hitting the floor from below first. Pretty sure GZDoom strict fixes it.
@@decino I guess this could be only TAS strategy but how about jumping into the brain's opening and then use cacodemon's fast projectiles? Those have gaps of 8 bits and caco's can fly, ergo altering the angle. Couldn't there be a way?
GzDoom uses much tighter collision detection by default, preventing Mancubus fireball shenanigans and making the player's melee much more reliable (in Vanilla it's really difficult to punch or saw a Mancubus or Arachnotron, but in GzDoom it's as easy as any other monster). I think it lets you use the old collision detection, but I fail to see the point when the improved collision detection is one of the biggest reasons next to mods to be using GzDoom.
GzDoom *mostly* fixes it, but if you have modded a very fast/small projectile, there is a chance it may noclip. I'm guessing this is just because GzDoom checks tics at twice the rate that original Doom did.
Dude! DUDE! I *just* started your Hell Revealed playlist today, and when 3:45 happened, I thought to myself, "Surprised there's no yellowback video on clipping fireballs..."
I love how Doom is nearly 30 years old and yet not only does this channel frequently find something from it to talk about but they always manage to make it extremely interesting.
I think the one way I can interpret the mancubus fireball passing through stuff lore wise is probably because the fireballs (even from other enemies) are so hot that they phase through walls thin enough but dissipate upon contact with flesh or thicker walls. Basically like throwing globs of hot gasoline at foes.
All of these years and I didn't know this was a bug in the game. Makes me wonder how many times I've died to this and raged because I couldn't see any monsters shooting projectiles at me.
The collision size of mancubi fireball is always so surprising even when you know it and how it always tends to catch you off guard and now this on top
decino, you've got me playing on PRBoom+ and I have to say, I like it. I played on GZDoom mainly before, but I've been using Boom and I can see why you like it. There is just something about it. It feels very vanilla, but also smooth and responsive, as well as fixing the blood colours. You've turned me into a purist. A couple of years back when i first started watching this channel I was playing with Smooth Doom, IDKFA.WAD and Bolognese mod. Now all i want is the spritefixes, widescreen hud and sweet midi.
Mancubus is too strong when they're telling your mama jokes xD 0:42 decino is doing speedrun lol It's interesting that you can still get surprised by 20+ years old game. It'll never stop surprising us. Doom is *Eternal* xD
Awesome. I did not know that the projectiles could wrap around the map and come back in from the void. I am more than sure now that I have heard the sounds of various fireballs hitting the boundaries of the map seconds after combat over the last 2 decades of playing.
That explains the random explosion sounds that scared me during all of those years playing Doom. Happens around maybe once or twice a year to me but it always gets me good. Luckily the Mancubus fireball thing hasn't happened to me but more than way too often I get blasted in the face by the Revenant missile clipping through the wall. I guess Im just unlucky when it comes to the spook-bois.
2:29 "...this missile will never fail to collide." I guess decino didn't explore all the possibilities with the revenant missile since this has happened "more than way too often" to you.
For anyone wondering if this issue occurs in other games or looking for something to relate this to, this is essentially the same reason why Mario can sometimes clip through things in Super Mario 64 given good enough speed and angles. I don't recall the specifics unfortunately (though if you want that you can watch some UncommentedPannen), but the gist is that if the wall or floor is thin enough and Mario fast enough that Mario can be in front of it for one frame or so and then behind it the next, Mario will go through it even though its solid.
2:08 i have a strange feeling that when you said "its the same as the plasma bolt", that in terms of code it was made (mostly) the same. idk, just a hunch
It's actually rather rare for walls in games, even today, to be solid all the way through! It's rather slow to make all those extra collection calculations, so many games, especially 3d games and games made on now-old hardware, don't have solid terrian, just solid edges. Doom is both (ok yeah it's 2.5d, close enough for the sake of this explainations) so there is no way it could have had completely solid walls and still run even somewhat decently
It's great that you covered this bug, I remember a Hell Knight projectile clipped through a wall while I was playing DOOM 64 on the Nintendo 64, in Level 06: Alpha Quadrant. I swear I was able to re-create it, but not in the 2020 PC port, then again that was 2-3 years ago since I last played that game and I can't exactly remember. Also how long does it take to make these Analysis videos? Especially ones which are around 10-15 mins long, I've tried something similar and it took me around a month (then again it was a completely different game and it takes a while to set it up).
I often assume these videos are going to be boring or confusing, but I’m always wrong. Your visual aides are awesome and this shit is always interesting.
Always interesting to learn about how they used to optimize things in the past, even when the methods may have had their own shortcomings. Wonder if they left this in on purpose like this though in those few instances, cause as you mentioned, they seemingly changed few of these in a way that should prevent collisions to fail. Almost seems like this may be the case for one thing or another... Makes you wonder x)
Big Mac Davis never uses a wall against Mancubus, because it uses projectiles and why block when you can dodge, he's such a strafing pro like any Doom god.
It'd be cool if one of the future mod compats like MBF22 would allow for tighter hit detection like in GzDoom, to solve little issues like these, and to make melee combat much more fun.
Why do people love this crappy vintage game, where not only player-wall collisions are screwed up (wall-running, elastic collisions, Zero-Master clipping out of bounds) but projectile-wall collisions too?
It's the father of all first person shooters, a fast-paced experience with a near constant influx of new maps and mods for nearly infinite different experiences. It's a classic for a reason. Also have you considered that bugs aren't necessarily a bad thing? Smash melee is one of the most played competitive fighting games and basically every major technique is a bug or exploit.
decino: answers the question precisely and quickly also decino: now allow me to explain how this can happen with every other projectile in the game and give more detail about their speed and size
4:12 oooohhh so that's why sometimes I stil can hear undead warrior's axe projectile sound in Heretic, even though they're all already dead. Makes sense now.
This is a bug called tunneling and is quite common in game projectiles like this if not fixed. There are numerous solutions, but a common one is not to detect collision on the projectile, but actually on a ray that is calculated between the previous position and new position - that way it sees if anything between the two positions had any walls or the such between them.
This got me thinking; no clipping Mancubus and Baron/Hell Knight projectiles might open up some possibilities for an Icon of Sin Pacifist run. Theoredically, if you can get a Baron/Hell Knight/Mancubus on the elevator and bait them into throwing a projectile from a perfect height and distance, the projectile could harm Jimmy Romeo's head. It is likely going to require a lot of testing to see if it's possible and luck to actually pull off but I think it's definitely worth looking into versus just hoping for 30 Archviles to zap you in.
So hypothetically you could kill all the monsters in a level, and then get killed before the exit by a clipping projectile
Imagine the rage!
Talk about getting scammed.
Hmm, how about playing Go 2 it but with modded projectiles that never collide with walls, so this kind of bullshit and chaos was even more likely to happen?
@@Mixa_Lv Are you playing with a GzDoom mod? The hit detection in GzDoom is mostly much more reliable, so in most cases it should basically not happen.
Imagine this glitch ruining your world record speed run.
“You hear a Mancubus talking smack about your mum” already love this
Mancubus delinquents. What a society are we bringing our children too.
@@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189 we truly live in a society
Civvie was right, the mancubus does say "hump your mom"
Mancubi are pigs. Even Romero couldn't quite cover that one up.
Ha ! If he knew what kinda shit my mom is, he'd either be too ashamed or realize it's pointless :D
I told GmanLives the same :P
" We like fireballs, let's give them IDCLIP. "
- ID Software, probably.
It'll always be IDSPISPOPD for me.
........JUST ADDING *+NOCLIP* FLAG SOLVING PROBLEM FOR EVERY KIND OF PROJECTILE
.....BUT THERE'S EVEN MORE WEIRD THING......ABOUT *A_VileStart* ACTUALLY IGNORES LINE OF SIGHT......FOUND IT OUT WHEN MAKING ARCHVILE BOSS....AND FIXED SO IF NOT IN LINE OF SIGHT,NO A_VileStart =...
@@robotnikkkk001 what
@@ReverendTedI remember this one in Doom Shareware in 1993.
Good things in life:
Chocolate
Friendships
Decino uploading a yellow-background video
agreed
Bad things in life:
Dark chocolate
Enemies
Decino uploading a non-yellow background video
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o how is that bad? His non yellow background videos are still bangers
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o HEY SHUT UP DARK CHOCOLATE IS SUPREME AND NORMAL DECINO VIDEOS ARE AMAZING TOO
@@asticlolThe yellow background ones are unique and informative.
The regular ones are just an unremarkable let's play.
Also, your Caps Lock key seems to be broken.
"Walls? From where we are shooting, we don't hit walls" (probably, one of the Dead Simple mancubi)
When this fireball hits 88mph, you are going to see some serious sh*t
Could just be an early example of bullet wall penetration in fps games? 😁 Everything might as well be plywood compared to those fireballs!
'sup fellow top commenter
@@liangseng7474 i get the reference. nice one
@@5spec Back to the Future is one of my favourite movies
That guy's Patreon was worth it just to make you read "Agonizing Rectal Pain."
Also very informative video!
"beaks make me coom" is even better.
I first heard about Agonizing Rectal Pain on Digital Foundry. Legend.
i bet people do that just ot hear the words read out loud
The way he said "Riley!" in a surprised tone got me :)
As an extra fun fact, this effect is also behind the BLJ in Mario 64. In fact, all video game movement is effectively teleportation if you don't code in some sort of interpolation. If I'm not mistaken, that's what the FASTPROJECTILE flag does in GZDoom.
the overflow glitch is really fun - there's a map in NoYe called, well, Overflow, where you have to fire rockets down a corridor for two minutes and then hide in a small alcove while a couple hundred enemies spawn in front of you, eating your old rockets (and your new ones, you have to team up with your past self!)
That sounds sick as hell!
If you're having trouble being hit by projectiles clipping through walls, then the solution is obvious: simply jump when the demon fires at you. That way, even if the projectiles do clip through the wall, they'll simply fly over your head harmlessly when they reach you!
Except Doomguy is a paraplegic in a rocket powered wheelchair.
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o So That explains why he can go so fast for very long distances.
@@Distriived That's actually a little doom community in joke, explaining why, in the original ports of the games, Doomguy can outrun a car, but can't clear a knee high ledge.
But here's the thing:
He doesn't know how to jump
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o if the in-game "architects" for doom levels were not dead from the demon invasion they would catch such hell in court for being out of compliance with ADA
don't forget, the fact that mancubi always shoot multiple times even after their target is out of sight also makes their projectiles do this more often
So do the cyberdemon, and sometimes the chaingunner.
@@RationalFunction yeah but rockets can't go through walls and chaingun bullets aren't projectiles
@@Bober26681 rockets most certainly can.
"You know, whenever I want to analyse a feature in Doom I always think: huh, that's not too complicated. Finally a short analysis video that won't take me a month to make - but then I discover stuff like..."
Fun fact: this is actually how shaped charge projectiles penetrate tanks.
Yup. For door charges they use water as the barrier for force projection on the back side if I remember correctly.
*World of Tanks fails flashbacks*
Not exactly, but practically.
Yes.
...no?
@@sunrisejackdaw1779Explosion forms a jet of particles
It functions a lot like a tickrate check to me: explosion happens at a tick, but there's a "gap" and then the jet goes through a "thin" wall since it has such high penetration
Pro Tip: In order to prevent projectiles noclipping through walls, simply prevent the monsters from shooting at walls.
so interesting to finally have the nuts and bolts of this explained. In Map29 of Scythe the room at the top of the lift with shotgunners has mancubi outside, and that wall there is terrible at keeping their fireballs out.
Get outta here and go make more videos for your new subs (including me 😜)
fancy seeing you here. just saw that video on 1.666 changes in doom 2
I seen this mechanic used in Extermination Day on a few of the latter levels. I thought at first it was a one way wall but nope, it was an Imp behind a wall. The second time was with a hell knights but I killed it with hitscan and melee when I figured out it wasn't a custom statue wall shooting it. I couldn't kill the imp one though.
That's horrifying... Imagine a stray projectile hitting you when you're low on health, and said projectile hits you either on your way to the exit switch or when you're about to press it.
Also, someone should have a Petron named "Mother Demon's Womb." or another twisted Doom-related pun for Decino to say during the Credits.
3:05 “Did I pull these numbers out of my a*s? Ehh, kind of.”
- Decino 2021
Saw this happened in Doom 2 map 8 when Looper was speedrunning.
Baron from the room to the right of the exit room shot through the wall into the pre-exit room, hit Looper, and dropped him into the death pit.
Oof!
Now THAT is real bull.
Doomguy’s eye-bulging 😐 face will always be unsettling.
Awesome video as always. Just ironic that you increased the "shout-out Patreon limit", and now it seems we're just as many (if not more) than when you inforced the new limit. Crazy. Keep it up!
Enforced
How have you been around this site for 14 years
Moe Lester How have you been around this site for 3 years
The real question is "How have you been guys?" < 3
4:07 he had a... BONE to pick with that Revenant aaahahahahaha gottem 🦴
Banned.
@@decino BURN BURN
Good to know, never knew a wall would scam me in a game.
Man I've been hearing random fireball explosions in my games forever, finally know what that's about. I've got a good video idea! When I'm in normal Doom 2, sometimes I'll noclip out and run in a straight line for as long as I can. Eventually, I'll start hearing aggressive monsters, even if all the monsters in the map are dead or most of em, but I'll hear a bunch of monsters, then eventually I'll end up back at the map borders because of position overflow, and the noises will stop.
That's some borderline creepypasta stuff right there.
Analysis videos like this really make you appreciate just how intricate and complex Doom’s programming is and how ahead of its’ time it was when it was released.
It's amazing how many small details there are, I dread the day you genuinely run out of things to explain
Do you see yourself doing these kinds of videos for other games in the future?
I have some planned for Quake and Quake II, but that's about it. For Doom I won't run out of analysis stuff for a looong time.
@@decino This is the best news I've received all year
@@decino Will you do any for Heretic and Hexen?
I won't. That's Dwars's territory.
@@decino possibly Q3/QL as well ?
"Agonizing Rectal Pain"
Never thought those words would come out of your mouth in that order XD
Kinda sounds like the name of a level in a sunlust-esque wad. I'd name a level that, but i don't make doom levels...
That's what usually happens to Cyberdemons when Decino uses his fists on them
That answers that mystery from Hell Revealed! I just recently watched that video and remember how confused you were about it at the time. It’s very interesting to now learn how that happened and I can appreciate it even more for how truly rare that actually was! Thanks for this video!
Good stuff. I didn't know fast monsters also triggered this bug. FYI, you mixed up cardinal and ordinal. Cardinal is NESW; ordinal is diagonals.
Good to see someone point this out. This should perhaps be pinned.
Another "yellow video" topic suggestion: I was always really amazed about Doom's lighting system, especially in terms of rendering its world in the original 8 bit video mode. The rendered colors of a texture or a sprite depends on the brightness of the sector and the distance from the player, except when using light amplification, when everything is rendered with their original colors (I guess).
I would really love to learn about how this is achieved. What palette is used and how are the rendered colors mapped to achieve that shading? Is there a restriction for usable colors for the textures and sprites? Is the palette temporarily altered when using a rad suit, berserk or invincibility and when receiving damage? I suspect so but then how is it achieved in invincibility mode that the sky and the HUD remains unchanged? Do they use separate palette colors? It would mean that all textures are allowed to use just a strict subset of palette entries to work properly. Some specific textures (eg. lamp and candles) remain always bright even in the dark or from far away. Are they just left out from shading or do they use specific palette entries that are simply not transformed? Or isn't there any restriction for the textures and is everything just quantized to a generic static 8 bit palette (eg. RGB332)?
Of course, all of these are not relevant when using modern Doom engines with 32 bit rendering. But achieving all this using just 256 colors... it must have been quite challenging.
4:50 the disappointment in his voice as he has to read that name
Any chance the no clipped projectiles can harm the icon of sin? Also, going to guess gzdoom fixes this unless you play with strict compatibility set?
I haven't tried, but I believe the vertical angle is too steep for projectiles to hit Romero's Head without hitting the floor from below first. Pretty sure GZDoom strict fixes it.
@@decino I guess this could be only TAS strategy but how about jumping into the brain's opening and then use cacodemon's fast projectiles? Those have gaps of 8 bits and caco's can fly, ergo altering the angle. Couldn't there be a way?
GzDoom uses much tighter collision detection by default, preventing Mancubus fireball shenanigans and making the player's melee much more reliable (in Vanilla it's really difficult to punch or saw a Mancubus or Arachnotron, but in GzDoom it's as easy as any other monster).
I think it lets you use the old collision detection, but I fail to see the point when the improved collision detection is one of the biggest reasons next to mods to be using GzDoom.
You can use the old detection in GZDoom, AFAIK
GzDoom *mostly* fixes it, but if you have modded a very fast/small projectile, there is a chance it may noclip. I'm guessing this is just because GzDoom checks tics at twice the rate that original Doom did.
Dude! DUDE! I *just* started your Hell Revealed playlist today, and when 3:45 happened, I thought to myself, "Surprised there's no yellowback video on clipping fireballs..."
that footage from the hell revealed playthrough made me feel kinda nostalgic
I love how Doom is nearly 30 years old and yet not only does this channel frequently find something from it to talk about but they always manage to make it extremely interesting.
@4:06 That wrapping fireball hit is amazing. Congrats on capturing it!
04:15 Freakin' insane. That explains why so many times while playing in UV-Fast I'd ocassionally hear projectiles exploding
Another excellent analysis video. I really like how you visualize everything as well.
Yay my first time getting to be a patreon! Awesome video as always 👌
4:20 this is the first time I noticed the *Get to it* map has a scared face in the top.
I think the one way I can interpret the mancubus fireball passing through stuff lore wise is probably because the fireballs (even from other enemies) are so hot that they phase through walls thin enough but dissipate upon contact with flesh or thicker walls. Basically like throwing globs of hot gasoline at foes.
the amount of info this guy dives into to keep up with content is insane. major props
All of these years and I didn't know this was a bug in the game. Makes me wonder how many times I've died to this and raged because I couldn't see any monsters shooting projectiles at me.
The collision size of mancubi fireball is always so surprising even when you know it and how it always tends to catch you off guard and now this on top
decino, you've got me playing on PRBoom+ and I have to say, I like it. I played on GZDoom mainly before, but I've been using Boom and I can see why you like it. There is just something about it. It feels very vanilla, but also smooth and responsive, as well as fixing the blood colours.
You've turned me into a purist. A couple of years back when i first started watching this channel I was playing with Smooth Doom, IDKFA.WAD and Bolognese mod. Now all i want is the spritefixes, widescreen hud and sweet midi.
That's first time I saw someone mix the funny game with science and programming
Thanks very much bro for your nice work
Mancubus is too strong when they're telling your mama jokes xD
0:42 decino is doing speedrun lol
It's interesting that you can still get surprised by 20+ years old game. It'll never stop surprising us. Doom is *Eternal* xD
I knew about this phenomenon but as usual your visual aides and thorough explanation made it perfectly clear. Well done as usual man.
That Doom lesson on a good Sunday morning, thanks decino, amazing work
AGONIZING RECTAL PAIN
that's a beautiful name, respect
Doom: A game so merciless at times, that not even the walls will save you.
Awesome. I did not know that the projectiles could wrap around the map and come back in from the void. I am more than sure now that I have heard the sounds of various fireballs hitting the boundaries of the map seconds after combat over the last 2 decades of playing.
That explains the random explosion sounds that scared me during all of those years playing Doom. Happens around maybe once or twice a year to me but it always gets me good. Luckily the Mancubus fireball thing hasn't happened to me but more than way too often I get blasted in the face by the Revenant missile clipping through the wall. I guess Im just unlucky when it comes to the spook-bois.
2:29 "...this missile will never fail to collide."
I guess decino didn't explore all the possibilities with the revenant missile since this has happened "more than way too often" to you.
The best part of Decino videos? Listening to him say all the naughty names during the credits... xD
For anyone wondering if this issue occurs in other games or looking for something to relate this to, this is essentially the same reason why Mario can sometimes clip through things in Super Mario 64 given good enough speed and angles.
I don't recall the specifics unfortunately (though if you want that you can watch some UncommentedPannen), but the gist is that if the wall or floor is thin enough and Mario fast enough that Mario can be in front of it for one frame or so and then behind it the next, Mario will go through it even though its solid.
4:00 And on that day, satan said:
*_"Fuck this revenant in particular"_*
2:08 i have a strange feeling that when you said "its the same as the plasma bolt", that in terms of code it was made (mostly) the same. idk, just a hunch
Amazing as always, great work, decino!
I didn’t actually know walls weren’t solid all the way through! I love these videos, this game has a lot to unpack behind the scenes.
It's actually rather rare for walls in games, even today, to be solid all the way through! It's rather slow to make all those extra collection calculations, so many games, especially 3d games and games made on now-old hardware, don't have solid terrian, just solid edges. Doom is both (ok yeah it's 2.5d, close enough for the sake of this explainations) so there is no way it could have had completely solid walls and still run even somewhat decently
The shocked Doomguy faces are brilliant. Also this was a really nicely done short analysis video! Can't wait for future ones :D
4:26: When viewed overhead, this map looks exactly like a monkey covering its ears! :D
As I said before, your videos are a full Game Design course on a real project. 100/100 would enroll to such a course.
It's great that you covered this bug, I remember a Hell Knight projectile clipped through a wall while I was playing DOOM 64 on the Nintendo 64, in Level 06: Alpha Quadrant. I swear I was able to re-create it, but not in the 2020 PC port, then again that was 2-3 years ago since I last played that game and I can't exactly remember.
Also how long does it take to make these Analysis videos? Especially ones which are around 10-15 mins long, I've tried something similar and it took me around a month (then again it was a completely different game and it takes a while to set it up).
A few weeks depending on the length and visuals.
@@decino Interesting, thanks for responding!
I often assume these videos are going to be boring or confusing, but I’m always wrong. Your visual aides are awesome and this shit is always interesting.
So that's what caused Hexa's first death in his Doom 2 revisited let's play.
It's funny how projectiles just wrap around the map like they're going around the planet
Always interesting to learn about how they used to optimize things in the past, even when the methods may have had their own shortcomings. Wonder if they left this in on purpose like this though in those few instances, cause as you mentioned, they seemingly changed few of these in a way that should prevent collisions to fail. Almost seems like this may be the case for one thing or another...
Makes you wonder x)
Probably, because to make it run on machines of the time they had to massively cut corners.
...literally in this case.
"Ok, but wouldn't it be funny if we position the mancubi here, and make their shots a coin flip to wallbang you?"
"Hell yeah, go for it"
It's incredible how, 25 years later, we are still talking about this engine. It's a lesson in game design!
0:34 quickest video ever
I haven't played this game in like 20 years, and yet this content is so interesting.
Big Mac Davis never uses a wall against Mancubus, because it uses projectiles and why block when you can dodge, he's such a strafing pro like any Doom god.
Mancubus: Why my fireballs can go through walls? Because F you, that's why xD
This was one of the most annoying things I’ve ever put up with in doom.
I've never encountered this issue before, so I'm guessing GZDoom fixes this particular bug.
@@zungrysoft GZ fixes block map and this bug by default.
Always entertaining, and informative
Well the game doesn't say that nightmare isn't even remotely fair for nothing
Your meme thumbnails are the best, glad you put them on display at the end of the video
It'd be cool if one of the future mod compats like MBF22 would allow for tighter hit detection like in GzDoom, to solve little issues like these, and to make melee combat much more fun.
Zap Rowsdower definitely plays Doom. He downs Molson beer, lives in the back of his truck, wears acid-washed jeans, trims his mullet, and plays Doom.
I am so glad the church of Rowsdower has not died!
Game's broken. Time to uninstall.
Get a doom 95 refund
This stuff is fascinating. Kudos to you for taking time to analyze all of these.
Why do people love this crappy vintage game, where not only player-wall collisions are screwed up (wall-running, elastic collisions, Zero-Master clipping out of bounds) but projectile-wall collisions too?
S O U L
O
U
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funny unf man shoot gun
Because in new games even glitches are boring. 😋
It's the father of all first person shooters, a fast-paced experience with a near constant influx of new maps and mods for nearly infinite different experiences. It's a classic for a reason. Also have you considered that bugs aren't necessarily a bad thing? Smash melee is one of the most played competitive fighting games and basically every major technique is a bug or exploit.
I can't tell you how many times this would happen to me when I would be playing doom. I needed this information. Thank You!
AGONIZING RECTAL PAIN
Amazing content as always, and loved that intro lol! Learnt something new too.
Adore your tutorial videos, keep doing and have a lot of fun.
This was great, cheers dude! Always love the game mechanics videos.
That solves my issue of seeing some projectiles passing through walls, thanks decino.
Thanks dude, love the analysis videos. Even more info with which to improve my chances.
If only my reaction speed was as fast as my recollection.
decino: answers the question precisely and quickly
also decino: now allow me to explain how this can happen with every other projectile in the game and give more detail about their speed and size
4:12 oooohhh so that's why sometimes I stil can hear undead warrior's axe projectile sound in Heretic, even though they're all already dead. Makes sense now.
I really love your sarcasm and irony used in recent videos. This is what I'm trying to imply in my vids xd
another way to chill by watching analysis videos by decino :))
Quickly and thoroughly explained it, including diagrams 👍👍
This is my first video I ever watched on your channel!
love your analysis videos. Learned so much about doom from them
I just Love this channel
This is a bug called tunneling and is quite common in game projectiles like this if not fixed. There are numerous solutions, but a common one is not to detect collision on the projectile, but actually on a ray that is calculated between the previous position and new position - that way it sees if anything between the two positions had any walls or the such between them.
Not enough memory 30 years ago to do that on every projectile
Great video, as always. :) From now on, I will only seek cover behind thicker walls against a mancubus. :D
Thicker walls do not guarantee that!
@@decino Okay, I'll be careful about it. xD
This got me thinking; no clipping Mancubus and Baron/Hell Knight projectiles might open up some possibilities for an Icon of Sin Pacifist run.
Theoredically, if you can get a Baron/Hell Knight/Mancubus on the elevator and bait them into throwing a projectile from a perfect height and distance, the projectile could harm Jimmy Romeo's head.
It is likely going to require a lot of testing to see if it's possible and luck to actually pull off but I think it's definitely worth looking into versus just hoping for 30 Archviles to zap you in.
Can't go through walls that have a floor above it.
@@decino RIP. Well worth a shot
Yellow background on the thumbnail?
Aw yeah, it's a decino video. :D
0:43 got me 💀
that rev missile width reveal, shit no wonder i get snagged by them even when i thought i barely slipped away