THE REDEMPTION OF MORTARION!
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we end our week long dive into Mortarion with a discussion about the latest events... could he be redeemed by the Emperor of Mankind?
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If any legion deserves to be redeemed, it’s either the Thousand Sons or the Death Guard.
I agree, as the Death Guard didn't really have a choice but to turn, the sons of Magnus really, *REALLY* didn't have a choice
agreed! however 'deserve' has got nothing to do with it!
Both need to be redeemed
no chance, i can see Mortarion doing some unexpected climactic noble deed and then being abolished by Nerguule
Your wrote Iron Warriors wrong. Dont worry it happens to the best of us.
Redeemed Mortarion vs Daemon Prince Typhus + Clonegrim vs Daemongrim both have a ton of potential as extended storylines.
What I wouldn't give to see a clone grim and clone ferrus manus against demon Fulgrim. Could you imagine that fight!
@@SCCGunny even better for me would be the legion of the damned and their primarch, Ferrus Manus, coming to aid the dire need of Clonegrim as he is losing to Daemongrim. I'd cry.
I think trazyn is busy finding a pretty enough set of armor for Clonegrim, then he's gonna unleash him in a time of do or die circumstances
@@jamesmckenna4460 Oh my Emperor yes! GW, please deliver!
@Les bons amis sanguinus is busy fighting his own battles.
I don't see Mortarion ever getting Redeemed, but lets say he was for the sake of argument. I think Isha would play more of a part then the Emperor IF for some reason Mortarion was to rescue her and give her over to Guilliman who as a Eldar connection, this would go along way to show Guilliman that Mortarion wanted to rejoin his brother. This would also be a boon to Guilliman in making his bonds with the eldar that much stronger and maby a willing ally vs Chaos.
That’s a good theory I like that
How could he give a goddess over to Guilliman? Isn't it impossible for 40K gods to exist outside of the Warp?
@@Yggi11 From my understanding ( tho limited with eldar ) she dose have a physical presence, think of her in terms of a saint. I fully admit I could be wrong, but from what I have read on the matter Nurgle keeps her caged and tests out his plagues on her. So this leads me to beleave she must have a living body otherwise he couldnt test his plagues on a god, just like Khaine he uses a avatar, Isha could also have one as well and its that Nurgle as, by setting her free, my guess is she could appear anywere she wished. But this is 100% guess work am no eldar fan boy xD
Naaa Let him rot I say Nurgles blessings to all :)
@@typhus9640 and I say any whom are blessed by nurgle should feel the burn of my thermite launcher.
Mortarion "Father can I ever be redeemed?"
Emperor "Here, take this ax and it will set you on the path."
Mortarion "How would a weapon.."
Emperor "No, its a... deodorant."
Took me a second but ….nicely done pie, nicely done!!!!
Very good. Ha ha ha That is very good.😂
The Emprah protects. Even against odor
I can see this definitely happening in TTS.
How cool would it be to have back an redeemed Mortarion trying to make it all good again by purging demons and psykers like he was intendet to?
This could be the opportunity to expand the Isha and lemon Russ storylines. Aiding the wolves in free isha for his own freedom as well as using isha to show defiance to Nurgle. This can also be used to “redeem” mort by undoing the thousands of years of disease he spread by protecting and ensuring isha removes blight from the galaxy.
I agree that for Mortation’s narrative arc, his redemption would come in a ‘true death’ where he embraced hope for the Imperium and his brothers.
To be clear, not that crazy-blue-feathered-schemer hope, a hope that there is a future for mankind. Mortarion was in many ways the human ideal of resilience. Of suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that a cold uncaring galaxy can throw at him and humanity only to stand back up and say “Let’s get to work.”
To let Mortarion get a proper send off by fighting to protect Russ while he rescued Isha, to laugh at the Warp embodiment of Entropy, Decay, and Despair because he knows now he will no longer break, it would be the best send off for him.
And perhaps for a moment, with his last thoughts, he’s look over to see his father standing beside him; not to save him as before, to stand with him him and thank him for being the strong one.
@@charleswacker7166 that would be an awesome scene tbh, but idk of any weapons besides the emperor's sword and the lion's great sword that can give true death to demons and someone with morts situation. Are there any conveniently available around mort or Russ to give mort a death he chooses rather than being left at the mercy of Nurgle?
And of course
The shipping.
@@chestnut4860 I knew the 'M' in Mortarion stood for Milf Hunter.
@@chestnut4860 There isn't much of it in 40k but we will take it where we can get
I can see mortarian getting along well with cawl he's planning on using the Necrons tech to not only travel but close the great rift cutting the galaxy off from the warp for good forfulling the promise made to him by the emperor and malcador
Cutting off the galaxy from the warp entirely was shown to have dangerous effects upon humans.
The goal isn't to cut off the warp.
The goal is to defeat the Chaos powers and becalm the warp plus to use a safer manner of transport than warp travel.
That's always been the goal.
Severing the warp from the galaxy entirely could have catastrophic effects. Including upon The Emperor himself
@@markrtoffeeman yeah my bad that's the Necrons plan not cawls got it mixed up
@@joechurchill6945 given the impact of the Great Rift. Its no surprise you got confused. It's screwing up everything everywhere. But might of also just released The Emperor from his throne too
Pharos devices don’t hold back or limit the warp. That’s the pylons/Blackstone.
He dies redeemed fighting against nurgle but takes a few nurglins with him
With the power of the Emperor all things are possible.
Nice.
So jot that down.
except failure.
Press X to doubt: *'X'*
Typhon is one who is definitely not redeemable!
I've always been frustrated by the Typhus-Mortarion dynamic, where Typhus always does what Nurgle wants, talks down to Mortarion and Kugath, gets Nurgle's favor, and generally seems to have no struggle with being a Herald of Nurgle.
What I would love to see is Mortarion split from Nurgle while Typhus stays. He could either become a rogue faction or maybe be set on the path to redemption. Games Workshop could lean into the Reaper/Death aspect of Mortarion. If he was redeemed maybe he could act like Charon (the ferryman) or Hades for the emperor and help ferry and keep the souls of the dead safe in the Immaterium or something like that.
Mortarion cannot split from nurgle, because nurgle owns his soul.
@@Cyrus-rodn45 Big E said he could wrestle it back but it wouldn't worth it for anyone else
@@dean_l33 when and where ???
@@Cyrus-rodn45 My bad it's implied but its in the video
Give him a shave, clip his wings and make him take a bath…maybe 3 and boom loyal morty
in the first version of plague wars there is a sequence were silence is described as "mysteriously clean of nurgle rot" if i remember correctly. in the followup novels this is retconned. i think 40ktheories had the idea of him hiding part of his soul in there from chaos.
during the siege of terra there is a dialogue between him and magnus - he admits he hates what he has become and obviously mort is going to get heavy punishment from nurgle in the godblight aftermath.
there are alot of signs of him going at least rogue against chaos some day.
i love it. pre heresy mort and deathguard are my favourite marines legion.
Maybe Mortarion would have a more sympathetic view of psykers, now that he has faced chaos himself and knows the knife's edge psykers face.
Wouldn’t it be neat if the emperor was able to reconcile with Mortarion and then Perterabo. Those two by Guillimuins side would forge the empire anew
Agreed…that would actually be pretty awesome
Guilliman would never stand for it. Especially Mortarion.
Why do people want perturabo back? Wasn't he one of the most evil/spiteful traitor primarchs?
I don't have enough knowledge about the setting nor the lore, but based on what I know, I think the story of Mortarion should go towards him defecting to Ynnead. He hates Chaos and I don't think the Imperium will accept him back (I don't know if he could even reside in the material world, or retain a fisical form without a patron god, I don't think he can). So perhaps, and this is just me making up a possible storyline, during Ynnead's awakening, Mortarion's link with Nurgle could be severed for enough time for him to make decisions of his own without being manipulated, maybe Yvraine could pull some stunt like she did with the Rubric marines, maybe the link with Nurgle can be severed with Ynnead's psychic backlash, or maybe even Russ' warp nulling capabilites if they decide to involve him, which I think it would be a good idea lorewise since he could be trying to stop the awakening of another chaos god. Having Mortarion's mind free from influence would help him ponder and make a decision, maybe even have a little hearth-to-hearth conversation with Reboute (and maybe Leman) which would do for amazing exposition and character development, so after that, Mortarion could come to the conclussion that since he can't return to the material world and he's not willing to return with Nurgle, he could plead alliance and patronage from Ynnead, out of desperation (and perhaps thankfullness for Evraine's effort/sacrifice?) He already has the whole reaper archetype, so why not go full on reaper of souls? Or even better: Sheppherd; in this hypothetycal story, Mortarion could become an entity who protects dead souls from the chaos gods, from Death Guard to Dead's Guard, fighting Chaos by limiting their food supply of souls as much as he can, guiding the dead of both imperials and eldar (drukhari included) through safe spaces and fighting raids, and maybe through all that, Ferrus could make an few appereances, helping his brother, now standing as a neutral in the conflict, trying to do the good that he couldnt do in life by being of service to the dead, that could also introduce a new faction, a totally neutral one focused in restoring some semblance of order in the Warp, without the pressure form the costant wars of conquest from the material world or influence form the chaos gods. But all this is just my two cents, WDYT?
That's not a bad idea, seems pretty cool
Thow in the Legion of the Damned and that's a cool idea.
Feel like..story wise..the only way he could be redeemed is through death…if he turns loyal again that backup godblight will come into play..
Mortarion takes a shower
Could Mortarion be redeemed?
Possibly.
Does Mortarion WANT to be redeemed?
I very much doubt it.
Mortarion sees himself as a victim and to be frank, revels in that vision.
We still don’t know what’s up with the uncorrupted scythe Mortarion has. I thought his mere presence would corrupt anything.
The lantern pistol that the emperor gifted to mortarion is unchanged as well apart from size to be usable by the gigantic demon primarch
Suggestion: How about a video at some point in the future regarding which of the (still living) traitor Primarchs deserves a second chance the most?
Everybody know Magnus did nothing wrong
Omegon can be easily be returned to the fold.
I always thought and still think that Perturabo deserves a second chance
Absolutely Magnus. Poor guy fucked up bad, but he could hardly have known. I won't say he "did nothing wrong", but everything he did, he did his best on.
Big E: "You can come back to the house but you need go shower on the porch first and Bobby still gets top bunk "
“But daaaaad Russ keeps eating my slippers!”
I wonder if the emperor decided less psykers in his imperium was the way forward, old Morty might be the man for the psyker purging job. Just a thought.
I know that this is a hell of a stretch but I want to see mortarion work with Isha so that he can break free of deamnonhood and Isha break free of the garden.
And here's the but that is REALLY a stretch... they end up in Imperium Nihilus where they will presumably have 3rd and 14th legion elements after them. So let's assume that they go to Baal as it is the most defendable position that side of the rift and maybe, please, get Sanguinius back up? He could reawaken in the emotional state that he was when fighting Horus giving everyone the challenge of calming down a primarch whilst also dealing with a chaos invasion and the fact that Sanguinius's rage would probably also drive his sons berserk, at least until he calmed down.
Just please give birb back.
They say WAR is the Great Redeemer but when you have waged War for for the ruinous powers and have been a pawn in Nurgles plans, theres no way back! I dont think The Grandfather would let Mortarion go, Morty is one of his favourite toys!
Im not sure the emperor even want to redeem mortarion. but if he does. i say he would sure try
@@amirhaikal6672 Gods dont have much luck telling Nurgle what he can/cant have..... Eldar God ISHA!
@@Duppyman695 eh, considering how he put half his garden to the torch and had Nurgle hiding in house his like a little punk (the word I'm really thinking of starts with a B or a P), I'd say you're overhyping Nurgle. Wether or not he's strong enough to contest the Emperor doesn't matter, in that particular instance, he CHOSE not to.
Also, as far as Isha goes, considering the damage big E did to his garden, she might not stay in said garden for much longer.
@@Duppyman695 The emperor is not an eldari god. he is a god for mankind. besides the emperor has the most worshippers in the galaxy coming behind perhaps the orks and or the tyranids
@@amirhaikal6672 and is Nurgle is the God of pestilence and resilience whats your point?
Maybe he could be put in charge of keeping Psykers in check. Possibly as the head of task force within the Ordo Hereticus, or perhaps as leader of a combined taskforce including Sisters of Silence, maybe some Ordo Hereticus, and perhaps some Cawl-made Sons of Morty or psyker-hating marines (maybe Sons of Russ).
If Nurgle is the master that “Mortarion chos; is The Emperor the master that “chose Mortarion”?
In the board game that Revelation played versus Malcador, i wonder if the Emperor chose to "sacrifice" Mortarion as to throw a wrench in the "predicable loss". Offering him to one of the Gods so that their "cooperation" crumbles faster.
@@fbussier80 if I remember correctly in that same match malcador noticed that the Emperor took a pause when it was revealed that the playing card which stood in place for mortarion suddenly transformed into a corrupted version after which malcador tried to relate and considered that maybe the Emperor was disappointed with mortarions choice and logically progressed to the next best move.
@@robertopompa_ which story is this?
@@garlicbread529 you can reference it to the short story- The board is set
Mortarion was always grumpy and now happy about coming to the imperium. He like Angron didnt conquor his planet with out help.
Clon Mortarion based on a similar premise to clone Fulgrim and acting independently, pethaps?
Mortarian's best reason for returning to the emperor's fold - is in my mind - that he's seen chaos and lived it. He found no solace or kinship in it. It's possible he sees that Gulliman is trying to change things to the emperor's vision and might find that preferable to an eternity of damnation and carnage and puss filled sacs where his balls should've been. Horus was the reason he joined chaos, that reason no longer exists, and has proven to be a mistake
I think redemption doesn't truly mean returning to the fold. Mortarion hates oppressors so his redemptive act could be killing Nurgle or severely damaging him if that's possible. But Morty at least wants the ability to do so, his whole belief in himself, he seems that he's always wanted to prove himself. As for "returning to the fold" maybe ruling the scourge stars and carving out his own empire. Only aiding the Imperium in their most dire circumstances like against Tyranids or a bigger threat.
The Emperor was the reason he joined Chaos, over a slight back on his homeworld.
He needs to let go of his pride first, before he can seek redemption.
I thought being betrayed by Typhus and trying to save his legion was the reason he's stuck with Nurgle? 🤔
@@ThePathStrider The Emperor, from Mortation's perspective, restricting his autonomy without a clear explanation _multiple_ times, was why Mortation joined the _traitors._
Mortarion trying to save his legion after Typhus' betrayal is why he joined _chaos_ (by force).
he is a victum of nurgle. He never really loved what he was. magnus had to help him remember. So he will turn good again.
I personally believe that the Warp lore that the Emperor learned to create the Primarchs was an inside look at how Warp entities and Gods function, with greater Daemons being literal aspects of their God, even the Gods creating them. In that regard, I think that the Primarchs are the Emperor's sons in the way that truly matters, they are aspects of his own self and soul.
So, yes. I think the possibility of Mortarion being redeemed or reincarnated into a form that reflects what he was meant to be, is certainly possible. The same could be said of any Primarch, Traitor or otherwise. I genuinely think that the form and power that Guilliman takes when the Emperor works through him, is indeed the true form that Guilliman was meant to have.
I’d love to see Mortarion as he “should” have been had the scattering never happened. Would be great to find out what the emperor intended his sons to be like had they grown and matured in Terra.
He's welcome back on the condition he gets a bath
How much old spice would it take?
@@TheRabbit68 all of it that has and will ever exist
Wonder how Terry Crews will make him keep washing with power to take the stink go away? 🤔
I imagine he can be saved as in: killed so that his soul would be free of his bond to the dark gods.
You can’t be killed if you’re an immortal daemon except by a handful of psyker weapons.
@@kelman727 if the emperor can hurt nurgle, then he can also kill mortarion
@@kelman727 Other daemons can kill you.
@@kelman727 incorrect. The Emperor can bestow perm death upon warp entities and he isn't the only one.
Isn't the process of becoming a daemon prince that the chaos god eats your soul and replaces it with pure warp energy?
Mortarion was extremely well suited to identifying and opposing tyrany. He would have been an excellent tool for the Emperor to destroy the Administratum after it had served its purpose. An exit strategy so that the Emperor wouldn't have to keep ruling humanity for the rest of eternity after his plans were complete. Let Mortarion cast him down from his throne and let humanity take the reins of its own destiny back.
And that's why Mortarion falling to Chaos and serving Nurgle is a solid sign that everything is going according to the Emperor's plan. Mortarion was always supposed to destroy so something new could rise up and take its place. And Mortarion rising in Nurlge's favor and having more of Nurgle's power channeled through him, he will come to start embodying the better aspects of the Grandfather, showing the galaxy what that means, why the inevitability of death can be a good thing as he slays the neigh-immortal corrupt nobility across the Imperium. And in so doing, people's thoughts about death and renewal will change, changing Nurgle's fundamental nature to better emphaisze that positive nature.
I think the level of worship finally reached a tipping point causing the big E to finally become a true chaos god, and this "psychic awakening" is in reference to not only humanity, but the big E himself.
also, the only being able to cleanse something of the taint of chaos, is a chaos god themselves, and now that the big E is a chaos god, he might actually have the ability to cleanse the tainted legions, the traitor legions, but it might require the subject to actually deep down truly want to return. So it may not work on all of them.
While Mortarion was not a loyal son, he was more loyal to the people than anything, and I am almost positive that if Mortarion knew what truly happening to Horus, being a slave of chaos, then I don't think that Mortarion would have sided with Horus, he would have begrudgingly sided with the Emperor, because the Emperor might be a tyrant but he's far kinder than the Chaos Gods to a degree.
If Morty actually got redeemed then hey my favorite traitor primarch becomes my second favorite loyalist primarch
Won't the Death Gard players be upset?
@@medramonmasquedecendres2966 oh definitely especially TT players. Morty is a really good as a unit, and typhus wouldn’t be enough to keep playing the faction. The best compromise is the traitor primarchs have a loyalist shard become present and active kind of like what happened to Magnus
@@medramonmasquedecendres2966 Well, should Mortarion be redeemed, I could see Typhus being elevated to a daemon prince and taking command. Yes, Death Guard players lose their daemon primarch, but the gain a new Typhus model.
@@medramonmasquedecendres2966 what if mortarions lich king father took mortarion daemon form they keep the model for mortarion but as the lich king and mortarion must beat hit father like he wanted so many years ago
Every time I hear the question of "Could X be redeemed?" I ask myself, what do you mean by 'redeemed'? I think Wolf Lord Rho makes a similar point here. The Emperor, with his burgeoning Apotheosis, is almost defined by his omnipotence in certain areas.
Could the Emperor do some intensive soul repairing surgery on individuals? No doubt, yes. But does that repair mean 'reform into his original vision of the Primarchs'? I'm less sure of that. But removing the taint of Chaos? Probably, yes.
Can we get a video about Imperial Knights please? I don't remember you ever mentioning them?
Imperial Knights are badass, I wish there was more about them too
These words were just a ploy to sow dissent between Mortarion and Nurgle. These words will be nagging in him for a long time, reducing his effectiveness and that with little effort from the emperor himself.
It doesn't matter if the task is impossible, as long as Mortarion doesn't know that.
@Wolf Lord Rho : I’ve been thinking a lot on the book « Fury of Magnus » lately. And that « revelation » guy that Magnus kills before getting to the Throne room…
And i think we are in for a ballsy revelation at the end of the Siege of Terra.
Basically, when Magnus arrives in the Throne room (after he « killed » Malcador temporarily) he is confronted (very briefly) by « revelation » and kills him bare-handed.
Now, that’s pretty weird this « revelation guy » is there in flesh and blood at all. And not being the Emperor himself in flesh and blood like we assume he is in « the last church ».
I found also super weird that the big E doesn’t move a finger while he is on the Throne and that Vulkan and Magnus dish it out basically right at his feet.
I’m starting to really think there’s something fishy there. Like, is Malcador REALLY the Emperor ? Or is the Emperor able to « split » his essence between bodies ? Or also weird, is the Emperor a sort of flesh puppet, or conduit for Malcador, or even something else entirely ?
The fact that the Emperor always appears « the way he must for his intended purpose » etc really makes me suspect there’s something massive about his true nature, and if anything, i believe the authors left us some crumbs to follow in « The Wrath of Magnus ».
Believes only Magnus was truly wronged that he not only deserved but absolutely has to be redeemed. For all his arrogance and mistakes he truly believed in the Imperium and even with a fragmented soul acted in honor to save random people by instinct. Whatever twisted being he may be now, path to damnation was not truly chosen by him from burning of Prospero to fighting Vulkan it was one tragedy after another that sealed his fate. Still amazed how close Vulkan was to being destroyed just like Russ before others intervened and Magnus lost, again. He deserves some break lol
Last time I was this early the old ones were building their empire.
Same
Last time I was this early , the necrons had flesh.
the story potential of a redeamed Death Guard is just amazing. like a whole Legion of Garro.
I wonder what Kaldor Draigo thinks about the possible redemption of Mortarion. Given they have a titanic grudge with each other that is unresolved.
I think we know what sort of redemption. Kaldor wants for Mortarion. It involves his sword.
Mortartion's redemption seems to be as probable as Fulgrim becoming an ascetic monk on Cathedral World.
So hear me out: Wouldn't the daemon primarchs still be satisfying their God's while crusading for the Imperium? Nurgle would have the death and destruction as breeding grounds for rebirth while also having the survivors having a newfound sense of perseverance and survival. Khorne would be satisfied because blood for the blood god and glorious combat aplenty. Slaanesh would get excess due to the greed of the Imperium and how it strives for perfection and the general art/building structure of the imperium. Tzeentch is already the God of ambition and change. I took most of these from the 40k wiki so it's just a fan theory. Maybe the great crusades strengthened the chaos gods the whole time or they'd still get stronger regardless of what side the primarchs are working for. Maybe Chaos Gods will always win just by their nature.
Duh, yea. Exactly! That’s really the whole point with Chaos. It’s a reflection of humanity. As humanity grows and gets stronger so does Chaos. The more you fight it, the stronger it gets.
I’d love to see a penance crusade for gas face. He’d be free to choose and be judged by it.
Many of the original greyknights were his sons...I would love to see it done
If Mortarion ever could be healed his scars would make those of Barbarus seems like a joke. I don't know if he'd ever come back: most probably not, but I guess he would start his own private war with Nurgle for making him into all that he despise.
It'd almost be like Barbaros all over again if he'd try to wage war in Nurgle's garden to overthrow a tyrant.
@@TheRabbit68 imagine he gets redeemed and goes on a crusade against Nurgle just to see his father taking the form of the daemon mortarion
No Mercy for the Traitor.
Traitors Die in Shame.
Before Godblight definitely not, but now I'm not so certain. He would need to go his own way and forge his own path. Same goes for Perturabo and Magnus they can't live in their father's shadow but they would be not an ideal fit for the Imperium, especially now and if the goal is to have the Milky Way under humanity's rule it doesn't necessarily need to be JUST the Imperium.
Imagine it. Mortarion, Puertorabo, Magnus and Alpharius or Omegon ( i am not sure, which is currently alive and which one is dead) joining together and forging their own empire with Atheisem in its core.
@@gfgffdd Not sure it would be atheistic, especially since the Chaos gods are pretty common knowledge now. But it be irreligious for sure. Perty's would be more agnostic but very brutal and practical, Morty and Magnus would probably be waay anti Chaos, Mortarion in particular, and Magnus's would be very pro sorcery.
I can imagine several ways maybe idk how but emperor shows mortarion the fight between him and Necare and every time mortarion tries to hit necare, necare starts to look more like mortarion until mortarion realises he became the thing he hated and either a: kills himself because of guilt or b: tries to redeem himself
you could say after the choice b: a small part of death guard stays loyal to mortarion meanwhile the majority flocks to typhus
but at last its GW so a man can only wish
Leman Russ is gonna find Mortarion in the garden of Nurgle after Guilliman damaged the garden with the emperor's sword. They will fight their way out nd become best buds. Girly man will be joined by 3 of his brother's to fight the Tyranids ( Morty, Wolfy, and Ravey)
Honestly I feel like it would be similar to Horus. If chaos could be purged from him for even a moment. Then perhaps he would regret his fall and be disgusted by what he became.
Alternatively, the emperor could say fudge it, pull a Fabius and clone all the traitors or the dead primarchs and start sort of freshish. It only half works seeing as clone Fulgrim had the memories of the original and his falling.
Personally, I think he always DID regret his fall and what he became. Typhus led the DG to Nurgle, Mortarion was practically just a bystander. You can definitely tell he didn’t fully understand what he was signing up for and once it became apparent to him, it disgusted him
As long as they don't fly Mortarion into Nurgle like a jet fighter in independence day.
Maybe the Emperor will plan ahead and have clone bodies of his sons that may fall in their redemption, so their soul can take the new vessel and rob chaos of their eternal primarch essence. Go Palpatine on them.
The Emperor protects the algorithm
I think, if Mortarion were to be redeemed I think it would mean that he would have to ask for help, and as you pointed out in one of your earlier videos he refused the aid the Emperor offered and in taking back his home planet, either out of stubbornness or pride or both. I feel like he will have to get past that in order to make progress into becoming redeemed, though I wouldn't put it past Mortarion after that brief encounter with his father that if he would try to break away from Nurgle by his own free will. Though that' may be a while.
I like the idea that even the most tainted primarch could be redeemed, but that just because it’s possible does not mean it will happen in every case
His zeal against chaos and nurgle in particular would be quite a sight to see, but i don't think he'd ever really be 100% imperial dudebro.
If he and Robute could somehow team up for a while, that might bring him into the fold enough via cameraderie, but otherwise i think he'd go rogue and set up as a petty warlord somewhere, just wanting to be left alone.
All he need to do is to find and free the eldar god and she can help him
She can help him but the question that needs to be asked is will she
He and Russ can do a joint heist to get Isha out. Considering Nurgle is the biggest simp in 40k, she’ll be glad to get away from him even if it means helping the Imperium.
@@joechurchill6945 if he offers her freedom from an eternity as Nurgle's plaything, why wouldn't she? Contrary to the fanfiction of many of the more...colorful 40k fans, Isha has not gotten Stockholm syndrome and fallen for Nurgle.
@@Crimson_Loki there is that I agree but the other side of the argument is that he chose (yes not 100% willingly) to be a daemon prince he's committed countless crimes against her people aswell so why would you help an enemy unless she decides the enemy of my enemy is my friend
@@joechurchill6945 While I understand your point, there is too many benefits for her to side with the "enemy of my enemy" for her to turn down an offer. What would be the deal? Turn me (Morty) back into a human speperate from Nurgle, maybe heal up the Emperor's decrepit body, and then what? You go free, you're no longer Nurgles's plaything, you're able to go back to your people, heal them, guide them and possibly save them from genocide. For something like that, siding with humanity is nothing. Further, if I'm not mistaken, Isha isn't spiteful, as when she whispers the secrets to curing Nurgle's plagues, she does so to everyone, not just the Eldar. At the end of the day, Isha is one of the extremely rare, truly benevolent beings in 40k, I don't think this is a deal she'd turn down if offered.
Mortarion said earlier in plague war that he had not entirely become a daemonic thing yet.
He becomes one in The Buried Dagger. Hence ‘daemon prince.’
@@kelman727, no, he is not yet completely a daemon according to plague wars, 10k years later.
Morty still has reservations apparently.
It would be interesting if Mortarion became redeemed - and if so - before Magnus or Perturabo.
I personally think either or both should be redeemed before Morty.
@@Crimson_Loki I'd like to see a loyalist Pert. If it had been both him and Dorn at the siege of Terra on the loyalist side, horus would have been in a right pickle
I’m on the fence about Magnus. I think Magnus before the burning of prospero was certainly worth of redemption. But after prospero and after a little soul searching, he became quite comfortable with his fate
@@briancates3576 Magnus has yet to encounter his father since becoming a demon primarch, the last time he saw him was when he rejected his offer and fought Vulkan. Incidentally, I'd argue that by choosing his sons over his own personal redemption, he passed some sort of hidden test the Emperor had for him, cause to be honest I view the decision he made as the morally superior choice. Also, as far as his view on being a demon primarch, he along with Morty are the two primarchs who have shown large discontent with their respective chaos gods. If the Emperor comes back to him, comes back to him with an offer of not only his redemption, but also this time his legion by removing the Rubric, I say Magnus agrees. But that's the key, it has to include the legion this time.
@@Crimson_Loki I’m still working my way through the books so there may be more development that I’m unaware of, but to me it always seemed like Magnus was beside himself with grief over what he had done, until the wolfs showed up. But the last I read about Magnus was in Crimson King.
With the Great Psyker Awakening across the galaxy? I think such a redemption can possible albeit on a knife's edge.... Remember that in the latter stages of the Horus Heresy, Mortarion finally came to terms that not all psykers are inherently evil, i forgot what the title of that book is, but in it his hostile encounter with a daemonhost aboard his flagship Endurance proved to his that psykers although inherently a disaster waiting to happen is nevertheless a necessity... and of course his "tense parley" with Jaghatai Khan during the Second Battle of Prospero prior to that.... both events are unpleasant eye-openers for him, but eye-openers non the less, facts he came to terms since then.... and underneath that grim exterior Mortarion is at his core, a pragmatist
Hey wolf lord rho, a great fan here. I just saw that Corax remembers “the face” of the Emperor before the scattering. You know something about the glamour of the emperor? Great videos mate. Love them. I’ll see you again real soon.
There's plenty of legitimate arguments based on all of the collected stories and lore thus far, to make a strong case against siding with the Emperor, the Imperium, and the current state of humankind. I wonder if Mortarion would be one of the types to desire redemption and an escape from Nurgle's servitude, but still refuse the vision and alliance presented by of his father. Is this or some other scenario like this on the table for GW, narratively? Absolutely not, but it would be fascinating to speculate over.
Perhaps the emperor can remove Nurgle's taint from Mortarian's soul, but I can't see how Mortarion would be able to physically return. Unless some character not only knows how to create a physical body for a primarch but also knows how to transfer Mortarion's soul to this new body.
~Isha has entered the chat~ that aside, Cawl could probably make him another body, or maybe he'd have a spiritual one. Celestine constantly gets killed, her body either heavily damaged or outright destroyed, yet when she comes back, her body is whole and undamaged.
Undoubtedly the emperor can purge chaos from someone (he did with horus) but most of these primarchs made the choice of their own free will and definatly irredeemable as characters.
Greetings Honorable Brothers!
What's going on in this thread?
Hail!
I feel like Morty was never going to be Loyal.
Sort of like Bobby G in the Dornian Heresy Timeline; he's a *Traitor,* but not a *Heretic.*
Like I imagine Mortarion would just get fed up with Robutt of all jokes Girlyman, and Rogal Dorn constantly shitting on him during the Crusades and take his Legio and go do his own thing.
"I am doing as I was bade, Destroy Enemies of Man wherever they may be. If you take issue with my methods, Brothers, lodge a complaint with Father. But, I know you will not. Very well then. If you do not appreciate my efforts to safeguard Mankind, then perhaps my time would be better spent elsewhere."
And then he just fucks off to the Ghoul Stars or some shit.
If he gets redeemed, he gets killed by gulliman or another loyalist primarch and the emperor saves his soul in the warp to be with him or something. At the very most becomes like a boss version of the legion of the damndd
1:02 Ah yes, jest!
Rescuing Isha is an interesting theory and possible plotline ... but why does Mortarion, or any other traitor primarchs and their legions deserve redemption? There are more storylines that can be cleared up without messing up the major plotlines like one of the primarchs becoming 'redeemed' - and I think this is why in the comments, a lot of people are saying that the only redemption is if Mortarion 'dies' and thus has no direct influence on the major storyline.
Considering how GW likes to work (i.e. influenced by sales) there has to be more primarchs (traitors and loyalists) released first to keep that space marines sales going. I'd like to see Lorgar and his Word Bearers get their revamp WITH mortal followers - the Lost and the Damned. There is also a need for the 'loose ends' to be tied up with 'self-destructive' legions like the World Eaters and the Emperor's Children. Angron and Fulgrim are both alive and kicking and both legions could heavily rely on non-Legion auxiliaries like daemons and LnD.
I guess my point is that the traitor legions don't need to be 'redeemed' since they're so damn Chaotic and evil - which is their purpose in the storyline. To be the badguys.
What if, it isn't the emperor who heals him but one or more of the loyal forces who gives him hope in the cause?
While I think that Perterabo was the backup plan for the chaos gods in case Horus was slain or never fell, I am sure that Mortarion would have been the easiest to turn even without his loyalty to his brother.
Just as the other traitor primarchs the fall is simply tragic.
It would be great to see a redemption.
It would be great to have a redeemed legion, something to move the story forward.
Well,If Nurgle is same Nurgle as AoS ,He is surely still salty about Celestine Prime snatch his champion from him,that may be why he decide to drag Mortation back immedeaitly
Traitors only get redemption.
If they DIE.
Or our glorious Emperor of Mankind decrees it.
Eh, that's your interpretation, but last I checked, the Emperor himself never said that. At the end of the day, redemption is whatever the Emperor decides it is.
@@Crimson_Loki This
@@Crimson_Loki it's the interpretation of every single Adeptus Astartes
@@Crimson_Loki "While vile mutants still draw breath, there can be no peace. While obscene heretics' hearts still beat, there can be no respite. While faithless traitors still live, there can be no forgiveness."
- Catechism of Hate Verse I of XXV
@@markrtoffeeman Astartes who are not as strong, not as smart, not as wise as that the Emperor. Or are you saying that the opinion of an Astartes, even the best amongst them is worth more than the Emperor? Ask them (if you could) if they think that.
I like to think he can be redeemed, Mortarion doesn't seem as corrupted to the extent that Fulgrim, Magnus or Angron is with Mortarion retaining a lot of his physical shape. I like the idea of the Emperor reclaiming his sons from the Chaos Gods, however would Mortarions redemption be keeping with the grim-dark theme of Warhammer 40k? Or should Mortarion be redeemed and then die in keeping with this theme?
Emperor can beat Mortarion's "You are a godly psyker" with a simple "No, you"
Longer videos would be great if possible, luv your work.
i hope he keeps his wings if he does get redeemed
Or get a set of black Angel wings for that grim reaper aesthetic he has!
@@CherryOpera he would look glorious with a revived sanguineous besides him
@@Starslothh YES I’d love that!!
@@CherryOpera would magnus count, i think hes the only other primarch with wings. if the emperor does return he'll want his arch angels lol
Never. Now that DG have their own codex.
Creo que sí podría redimirse tanto el como Magnus. ¿Porque? Porque tienen una cosa en común, se vieron obligados a seguir el camino de los dioses caos. En ambos casos son fruto del fracaso paternal del emperador. Magnus fue castigado injustamente por avisar de lo que se venía en el caso de mortarion, se vio obligado a seguir a nurgle por culpa de kalas tiphon que es el verdadero culpable de todo
Honestly I really really really really hope that none of the traitor primarchs turn loyalist again or are "redeemed"
No chance he could be redeemed to rejoin the imperium. Maybe returned to his pre-daemon primary state, forgiven by the emperor and then slain along with the legion.
If two other primarchs and their legions were expunged, you’d have to wonder just how bad did they go, and there’s no way it could be as bad as the traitor primarchs.
It's much worse.
they might be connected to the Randang xenocide. Something that killed over 350000 Space Marines and so many Imperial Guard that they didn't even have the luxury to count.
Doesn't Mort now have his own potent phyker powers? I had thought so, as well as his views of phykers changed due to his now awakened powers.
Mortarion probably was never part of the fold, but certain elements of the Death Guard, such as Nathaniel Garro were.
I don't think he could go rogue after being saved from the ruinous powers. He might be to alienated by the heavy presence of psykers and the worship of the Emperor, but I don't think he'd stay with Nurgle if given a choice. Even if that choice comes from the Emperor. Mortarion does hate what has become of himself, so him going at least rogue against Nurgle and Chaos is very much likely.
There's another thing that needs to be looked at. As far as I can tell I've never found a place where Mortarion has lost his soul or a part of his soul like the other corrupted primarchs have. Even Magnus the red has lost half his soul.
It is implied (I believe) that the process to become a demon primarch binds your soul to the Chaos God in question and thus you essentially become an aspect of them. Thus for the Emperor to seperate them, he'd have to basically cut out their soul from the Chaos God. Kinda like a forced Horcrux (to use a HP reference).
You only get to be a daemon Prince by voluntarily selling your soul to Chaos.
@@kelman727 Eh, in several cases I'm not exactly sure how "voluntary" it was.
@@kelman727 When & where?
A Greater Daemon of the Emperor based off of the Emperor's original concept of Mortarion is as realistic as we can get. But would we want Daemon representations of traitor primarchs when we can get loyalist ones?
I think the Emperor has gone past "Loving" Father and into full blown "Do as I say or I will end you" Father on Mortarion.
Hey Wolf lord what are your predictions for Wolftime do you think we'll see leman or just a tease of his return, I'll be happy to know if he's alive
Wasn't he tricked? I think he'd jump at the chance to restore himself to his former glory,his former body.
Being a gross servant of Nurgle kinda sucks. All types of disease and immortal rot sounds pretty awful. I think he'd take a deal from the Emperor if he thought he could actually heal him
I mean if chaos can add chaos taint I’d assume their anathema can remove it
redemption must be sought,
also the idea was mortarions true role was in a post current era?
My cousin's out fighting super mutants and what do I get? Guard duty.
Just here to promote my theory most chaos special characters are actually perpetual, including the primarchs. This biggest trick chaos ever pulled was making them think it had made them immortal
Its explained, in the second book on the Black Legion, that time in the warp has no meaning and being functionally Immortal means they could live nearly forever in the Eye. I think only a few characters are actually perpetual. Vulkan, Kharn the betrayer a swordsman who takes over your body after youve proudly killed him.(cant remember his name though but I think hes a wordbearer)
And a few others whose names elude me.
Edit: Lucius the Eternal. Celestine and her sisters. Etc...
@@jimnpen8451 course what I'm saying is kharn is a great example. He dies on istvaan killed by a land raider, way before he was khornate. However no one notices so then when he gets res'ed "by khorne" later on says it's due to the blood god. Angron is another GREAT example, he dies several times before becoming a khornate Daemon prince. Khorne takes the cred and like all the chaos god's demands the final sacrafice must be his corporeal form. Essentially he's stole the credit for his perpetuality then destroyed his body so that his taint makes him a warp beast binding him to khorne forever. Then claims he's given him immortality, same with all of them really, all the highest tier chaos marines and primarchs seem to be the same. They die several times before their taint but don't notice they had done so thinking they had "passed out" (angron getting crushed and flayed, mortarion trying to kill nakair etc kharn and the landraider, curze through starvation lorgar through desert worm etc.) chaos points out their immortality then claims credit for it through illusion. Thus the greatest deception it ever did was claiming credit for the emperor's works to use his own tools against him
@@jimnpen8451 I reckon that's why most champions become chaos spawn regardless of their achievements, they just ain't perpetuals.
@@jimnpen8451 oh my bad when I say perpetual I mean like John grammaticus or vulkan. As in capable of unwitting reincarnation into a new body. In fact I think being made into a space marine or being tainted by chaos flaws the process and gets you stick in the same ever regenerating body unlike say ollanius persson