Why the dislikes? Seemed like an honest assessment/presentation to me. Thank you for putting in a ton of effort brother. I can't make my mind up on if I want to buy a 2023 or not. I doubt I will lap it more than 40 a year at VIR or Carolina. I'm guess with baby track use and country roads I could be fine. I'm just rambling now, but thanks again for the real world data for us fence sitters.
Alex, if you toss an in-line 30 tho orifice on that pressure sensor, it’ll clean up data greatly. I ran that exact sensor and gauge on my STi, and ended up remote mounting the sensor and adding the aforementioned orifice and it worked like a charm.
@@stratifiedauto yeah, absolutely. It’s like adding mechanical smoothing to use a dyno reference. And the same rule/practices would apply. On the STi I used the stock sensor location and I found the pulsations from the pump made the gauge a bit tiring to read. I’m not sure if the BRZ is as bad, there were a couple of shots in the video where it looked like the engine was steady state and it was bouncing a bit. I’ll double check the size I used. If I remember correctly, I tried a few differently ones. I also used a braided line to get the sensor to a different location, that also helped.
It does bounce around a bit. I will bring the signal on the canbus as well to datalog via obd and will see how the software filtering works on that end as well.
Hi Alex, I have ordered a 2024 brz and am enjoying your content about the platform. I live in your area and those wheels and that cup suspension interests me. Also, I don’t know if you know this but you’ve been using quietly jazzed up Christmas music for your videos. I chuckle about it with every video I watch. Keep up the good work
Awesome and happy to see another local! We can definitely help you out with both the wheel setup, tires and and suspension. Get in touch with any questions and make sure you enjoy your 2024 when it comes in!
Sold mine. The fact people are having to do this for what should be a bullet proof NA engine is a joke. A bunch of people just guessing and throwing crap at a platform. Nobody knows how to truly fix it. GL with your progress though.
@stratifiedauto bulletproof is not a great word for it. Reliable without major fault would be more suitable. How can they market a car so heavily to be used in track/spirited driving that has a flat like this? Again having to make guesses on a solution is comical. The engineers at the factory had to see this issue and either chose not to fix it or couldn't. Both are bad.
the fact that so many people are going down the analysis route is kind of fascinating at a macro level. With other cars on track like many Miatas, Porsches, and BMWs makes you wonder if its meaningfully more common of an issue in this particular vehicle.
There is still a lot to discover on this motor as it is relatively new. As more data is gathered the community gets the sense of failure modes and also how to mitigate them.
WHOA. I was just drinking/stoned and thought the same thing. The same question came to mind. I wonder as well if the same scrutiny/data recording was put to other cars marketed as "sports cars" had similar pressure drops in certain G situations.
Such a good vid; esp the conclusion. We do _not_ have any causal relationship established between the failures and it explicitly being caused by oiling. Also especially appreciate pointing out that this is a feature of wet sumps. On the subject of oils, do y'all have opinions on "spiritedly driven" daily drivers that aren't tracked? I thrash mine on the twisties every so often and am worried that the temps I get up to when just going to the grocery store are gonna make the oil pressures too high haha. Also, people tend to parrot to each other to "overfill" these when doing an oil change which also seems unwise. Any thoughts on that? Thanks for the series!
The idea with overfill is to prevent the pickup from being exposed. The idea is good but whether or not it helps is hard to say. I wouldn’t want to run low on oil. You can of course overdo it and end up with sump oil into the rotating assembly. Because oil loses viscosity and pressure as it get warm if you are seeing temperature creep often, cooling and a heavier oil than stock are a wise choice
I've watched the video and read the comment section and I've comment to others some of the things that need to be investigated. Such as, is too much oil going to the heads, oil return from the heads to the sump, oil viscosity and building a higher capacity truncated sump; which is deeper with a 4 sided trap door baffle for oil control. I didn't buy the 1st gen Porsche Cayman due to the design problems I could see, and oil control was one of them on high speed turns. I waited and got the 2nd gen Cayman and the oil control issue along with the all other issues had been addressed. Hope this is one of the avenues you have in mind for the cure.
It’s a good parallel. The early 996 engines were definitely the most problematic. The solution here will likely be multi pronged and some failures will not be directly attributed to this issue.
Has the manufacturer not yet issued a recall so that improvements can be made? And what about vehicles that have only rolled off the production line since 2024? Are they also affected by the problem?
The statement about the oil pressure not falling as low as during idle scares me: it's a completely inappropriate comparison. The pressure being exerted on the bearing surfaces at idle is an insignificant fraction of what it is at 6K RPM full throttle. I'd trust this "data" a lot more if I got to see the a log of the actual data from the sensor rather than a video of a display that's probably filtering the change rate through a single pole filter algorithm. What's the sensor sample rate? So many questions.... I'm still auto crossing my BRZ for now with an extra 1/2ltr or so of oil, but I sure feel better on CCW courses! Definitely going to add an oil cooler and Acusump setup once it's not a daily driver any more.
Keep in mind that the accusump system reacts to a drop in oil pressure. It does not prevent it in the first place. So then you have to ask - what is the duration of the drop and will the accusump reduce the duration. From what we have seen data wise the drops are quite fast to recover. Perhaps on a track with a very long sweeper but in sweepers without abrupt changes in elevation or braking the problem doesn’t seem to occur in the first place.
This is a good point. We cleared it out before we tracked the car as a good precaution. Certainly a restriction in the pickup would not help with flow and thus pressure.
hi man, such a great explanation and rich content. Just liked your vid and subscribed. I wonder does this Oil pressure drop occurs when drifting? Thanks!
What oil are you running (viscosity wise) and are you overfilling? Can you also let us know what oil you are specifically using within LM? Are you using MoS2 and Ceratec?
Question, would a new WRX's FA24 block directly bolt on to these heads? If so, that would solve the pressure loss issue. I know it's not a fix for your everyday person, but if I ever get a GR86, that would be my plan (if it works) so I could also turbo it at the same time.
For Liquimoly oil, I know there's 2 formulas. One for BMW, and another for VAG and Mercedes(I think that's how they were separated). Which do you use, and why that formula instead of the other?
I chose a full synthetic that meets the ILSAC GF-6A required specifications and have been using in numerous vehicles. I stuck with LM oils as I use their Ceratec additive and it’s good to use the same brand of additive packages for effectiveness.
Interesting. I use Ceratec every 30k miles and in between I use MoS2. But I don’t bother with the cleaner. I do run Motul 5W-40 Excess Gen2 during autocross season. And switch back to 0w20 for winter.
Car has oil problems so all yall take it to the track and beat the shit out of it, then complain when something goes wrong that you dsmn well knew was going to happen! Stop taking it to the track, problems solved
I thought the reason for the oil issues was that the factory overdid the oil pan gasket sealant by A LOT and it is coming off in chunks and getting sucked into the oil pickup. Throtl just did a video on it for their BRZ build. ua-cam.com/video/KzCWPCaKvFQ/v-deo.html about 2 minutes in..
I completely disagree with you. engine are not that hard to understand. your thinking too much like a mathematician and not enough like an engineer. 1. they usually occur due to oil starvation 2. this engine failure usually occur are a track day. 3. we know issues occur in the right hand turns which causes oil pressure drop. 4. we know the there are excess rtv which blocks the oil flow. so lack of pressure on certain turns combined with blocked oil flow = engine oil starvation.
I love the consistent common sense and honesty. Thanks.
And that is exactly the gauge set-up I want in my car. As soon as you have it I will order it.
We will have the package up soon!
Why the dislikes? Seemed like an honest assessment/presentation to me. Thank you for putting in a ton of effort brother. I can't make my mind up on if I want to buy a 2023 or not. I doubt I will lap it more than 40 a year at VIR or Carolina. I'm guess with baby track use and country roads I could be fine. I'm just rambling now, but thanks again for the real world data for us fence sitters.
We will discover more with time. I don’t think this is a good reason to shun one of the true affordable and fun sports cars.
Hey Alex. Did you log your pressure data at all? It would be interesting to compare data since we were both testing at VIMC.
I need one of your devices to inject the data into the canbus and overlay with more data.
@@stratifiedauto We'll reach out when we have one ready to go!
Looking forward to it!
Alex, if you toss an in-line 30 tho orifice on that pressure sensor, it’ll clean up data greatly. I ran that exact sensor and gauge on my STi, and ended up remote mounting the sensor and adding the aforementioned orifice and it worked like a charm.
Thanks for the tip. It must dampen the signal, we just have to make sure we don’t dampen it so much that we lose peaks and troughs.
@@stratifiedauto yeah, absolutely. It’s like adding mechanical smoothing to use a dyno reference. And the same rule/practices would apply. On the STi I used the stock sensor location and I found the pulsations from the pump made the gauge a bit tiring to read. I’m not sure if the BRZ is as bad, there were a couple of shots in the video where it looked like the engine was steady state and it was bouncing a bit. I’ll double check the size I used. If I remember correctly, I tried a few differently ones. I also used a braided line to get the sensor to a different location, that also helped.
It does bounce around a bit. I will bring the signal on the canbus as well to datalog via obd and will see how the software filtering works on that end as well.
Awesome video Alex….
Thank you!
I highly recommend an air to oil cooler for track oriented twins. Keeping that max pressure up is key as well.
I agree cooling is always a good thing.
Hi Alex, I have ordered a 2024 brz and am enjoying your content about the platform.
I live in your area and those wheels and
that cup suspension interests me.
Also, I don’t know if you know this but you’ve been using quietly jazzed up Christmas music for your videos.
I chuckle about it with every video I watch.
Keep up the good work
Awesome and happy to see another local! We can definitely help you out with both the wheel setup, tires and and suspension. Get in touch with any questions and make sure you enjoy your 2024 when it comes in!
14:10 There's a 'free' 3D printable fuse panel part available for that. It's essentially extended to allow more room for those add on fuses.
Nice good to know!
Sold mine. The fact people are having to do this for what should be a bullet proof NA engine is a joke. A bunch of people just guessing and throwing crap at a platform. Nobody knows how to truly fix it. GL with your progress though.
I’m not sure if Subaru ever made a bulletproof engine. But the car as a whole is a great sports car in a price category that is disappearing.
@stratifiedauto bulletproof is not a great word for it. Reliable without major fault would be more suitable. How can they market a car so heavily to be used in track/spirited driving that has a flat like this? Again having to make guesses on a solution is comical. The engineers at the factory had to see this issue and either chose not to fix it or couldn't. Both are bad.
No question it’s disappointing for a car like this. Wish they would have worked with Honda on the motor instead of Subaru.
That’s a pretty big dip for a baffled pan I wonder what those dips were like stock. Thanks for testing and I’m loving the whole brz build series
One way to find out. We are about to release our pressure and temp gauge kit.
the fact that so many people are going down the analysis route is kind of fascinating at a macro level. With other cars on track like many Miatas, Porsches, and BMWs makes you wonder if its meaningfully more common of an issue in this particular vehicle.
There is still a lot to discover on this motor as it is relatively new. As more data is gathered the community gets the sense of failure modes and also how to mitigate them.
WHOA. I was just drinking/stoned and thought the same thing. The same question came to mind. I wonder as well if the same scrutiny/data recording was put to other cars marketed as "sports cars" had similar pressure drops in certain G situations.
Such a good vid; esp the conclusion. We do _not_ have any causal relationship established between the failures and it explicitly being caused by oiling. Also especially appreciate pointing out that this is a feature of wet sumps.
On the subject of oils, do y'all have opinions on "spiritedly driven" daily drivers that aren't tracked? I thrash mine on the twisties every so often and am worried that the temps I get up to when just going to the grocery store are gonna make the oil pressures too high haha.
Also, people tend to parrot to each other to "overfill" these when doing an oil change which also seems unwise. Any thoughts on that? Thanks for the series!
The idea with overfill is to prevent the pickup from being exposed. The idea is good but whether or not it helps is hard to say. I wouldn’t want to run low on oil. You can of course overdo it and end up with sump oil into the rotating assembly.
Because oil loses viscosity and pressure as it get warm if you are seeing temperature creep often, cooling and a heavier oil than stock are a wise choice
@@stratifiedauto appreciate the reply; makes sense!
I've watched the video and read the comment section and I've comment to others some of the things that need to be investigated. Such as, is too much oil going to the heads, oil return from the heads to the sump, oil viscosity and building a higher capacity truncated sump; which is deeper with a 4 sided trap door baffle for oil control. I didn't buy the 1st gen Porsche Cayman due to the design problems I could see, and oil control was one of them on high speed turns. I waited and got the 2nd gen Cayman and the oil control issue along with the all other issues had been addressed. Hope this is one of the avenues you have in mind for the cure.
It’s a good parallel. The early 996 engines were definitely the most problematic. The solution here will likely be multi pronged and some failures will not be directly attributed to this issue.
Has the manufacturer not yet issued a recall so that improvements can be made? And what about vehicles that have only rolled off the production line since 2024? Are they also affected by the problem?
There haven’t been any recalls no. But if you track the car you can do a few mods to help with the issue.
The statement about the oil pressure not falling as low as during idle scares me: it's a completely inappropriate comparison. The pressure being exerted on the bearing surfaces at idle is an insignificant fraction of what it is at 6K RPM full throttle. I'd trust this "data" a lot more if I got to see the a log of the actual data from the sensor rather than a video of a display that's probably filtering the change rate through a single pole filter algorithm. What's the sensor sample rate? So many questions....
I'm still auto crossing my BRZ for now with an extra 1/2ltr or so of oil, but I sure feel better on CCW courses! Definitely going to add an oil cooler and Acusump setup once it's not a daily driver any more.
Keep in mind that the accusump system reacts to a drop in oil pressure. It does not prevent it in the first place. So then you have to ask - what is the duration of the drop and will the accusump reduce the duration. From what we have seen data wise the drops are quite fast to recover. Perhaps on a track with a very long sweeper but in sweepers without abrupt changes in elevation or braking the problem doesn’t seem to occur in the first place.
I wonder how the results would have differed without you having cleared out the silicone first
This is a good point. We cleared it out before we tracked the car as a good precaution. Certainly a restriction in the pickup would not help with flow and thus pressure.
hi man, such a great explanation and rich content. Just liked your vid and subscribed.
I wonder does this Oil pressure drop occurs when drifting? Thanks!
Usually drifting has lower g forces so less likely to occur.
What oil are you running (viscosity wise) and are you overfilling? Can you also let us know what oil you are specifically using within LM? Are you using MoS2 and Ceratec?
During this run I was on 5w30 oil. I only used the Ceratec additive and no MoS2. I used the special tec AA.
Question, would a new WRX's FA24 block directly bolt on to these heads? If so, that would solve the pressure loss issue. I know it's not a fix for your everyday person, but if I ever get a GR86, that would be my plan (if it works) so I could also turbo it at the same time.
There are key differences such as compression. The short answer is no.
Mind sharing what type of oil (in addition to additive Ceratec you are using)? Also why a KN filter instead of OEM?
During this track event we were using 5w30 from liqui moly. The filters were actually sent to us by K&N to test out.
It's so sad that Subaru did NOT take care of it (oil pressure)...
...this says a lot about Subaru 😞
17:25 are you suggesting idle oil pressure has anything to do with high rpm, high load oil pressure? I'm curious your comparison here.
I am suggesting perspective. A drop in oil pressure is never ideal but how much and for how long and at what rpm make a difference.
Do you have a link for the TRD sandwich plate?
We will have a plate on our website very soon. Testing out a few alternatives.
For Liquimoly oil, I know there's 2 formulas. One for BMW, and another for VAG and Mercedes(I think that's how they were separated). Which do you use, and why that formula instead of the other?
I chose a full synthetic that meets the ILSAC GF-6A required specifications and have been using in numerous vehicles. I stuck with LM oils as I use their Ceratec additive and it’s good to use the same brand of additive packages for effectiveness.
Interesting. I use Ceratec every 30k miles and in between I use MoS2. But I don’t bother with the cleaner.
I do run Motul 5W-40 Excess Gen2 during autocross season. And switch back to 0w20 for winter.
Allow a link to the store that sells the sandwich plate ? i did not find
We have our own that will be available within a month. Better priced and we have been testing it.
Have you contacted Subaru
Have not. Have not had an issue so far.
If you dont track the vehicle and only street drive; then the oil pressure drops are nothing to worry about (for you non-track people)
You should be fine on the street
P r o m o S M 💋
Car has oil problems so all yall take it to the track and beat the shit out of it, then complain when something goes wrong that you dsmn well knew was going to happen! Stop taking it to the track, problems solved
Or address the oiling issues and continue enjoying it on the track :)
I thought the reason for the oil issues was that the factory overdid the oil pan gasket sealant by A LOT and it is coming off in chunks and getting sucked into the oil pickup. Throtl just did a video on it for their BRZ build. ua-cam.com/video/KzCWPCaKvFQ/v-deo.html about 2 minutes in..
That’s already been addressed on our car.
I completely disagree with you.
engine are not that hard to understand.
your thinking too much like a mathematician and not enough like an engineer.
1. they usually occur due to oil starvation
2. this engine failure usually occur are a track day.
3. we know issues occur in the right hand turns which causes oil pressure drop.
4. we know the there are excess rtv which blocks the oil flow.
so lack of pressure on certain turns combined with blocked oil flow = engine oil starvation.
I’d like to see what exactly fails inside the motor before drawing conclusions. Not enough information there but it will be coming.