Penelope: Saved Daphne from a forced marriage by exposing the guy. Saved Colin from Marina’s entrapment (it wasn’t entirely selfish, do you even remember? she tried to get him to let go and also Marina to give up before she exposed her, she didnt want to hurt any of them, but of course, she prioritized Colin while knowing he still wouldn’t return her feelings) Saved Theo from death or imprisonment if he were ever caught with Eloise Saved Eloise, Francesca and Hyacinth from ruin marriage prospects if Eloise was caught with Theo Exposed the mistreatment of young ladies and the egos and hypocrisy of the ton People: She attacked those poor people She attacks the elite lmao (yes im aware she is part of the elite, but they ostracized her so she showed them their true face) honestly, these are nobles, so fuck them
She did, she had many great intentions, and she did some good. But she also publicly ruined Marina (honestly fuck Marina, but that was still a thing) and humiliated Colin (he probably felt stupid everyone knew he was played for a fool), when she could've tried to tell him (or Violet) the truth to his face, instead of saying Marina loved another. She wanted to out Marina but she didn't want the blame for it (selfish and relatable, honestly). She sure saved Eloise from a mess of her friend's own making, but it also put her reputation in danger, which made her upset. So, to Colin, LW has done many bad things. Understandably, he wouldn't like whoever that was. He didn't know the intentions behind it, only knew it was a gossip mag. And to know Pen has been lying to him, when he didn't know her to be a liar, must've hurt him a lot. The only other time he's show romantic interest in a woman, he was deceived, and now he's being deceived AGAIN. Of course he grows to recognize there was good in Pen's actions and even appreciate the value of LW. By my estimation, he found her out in the same week they got married, as Pen mentioned to Eloise, and then after he's married he sleeps on the sofa for 2 nights, the third night (the ball) they already make up, so he was probably mad for a little over a week. So I'd say her speeches in ep 7 really got to him. Eloise not being able to forgive for months, or even be inclined to let Pen explain herself is what really pissed me off.
@@fmellarkeven if she did tell he was still honor bound to marry marina in that time it was considered not honorable to take back a proposal for a man a woman could take it back( if it was not about being in a compromising position) and even if he choice not to marry Marina if she told him and people later found out that marina was pregnant people would assume that the baby was his and he and his family would be even more ruined so in order to protect him so that Colin did not have to marry marina without looking not honorable she has to publish that marina was pregnant before she came to Mayfair
Even the actor himself said Colin knew it was him who entrapped her. He was actually making sure she was reminded they were intimate so they should marry because he wanted to make sure they would marry but did not want to admit it bcs he was hurt by her lie about LW.
I must of missed him saying that, but glad to hear he did. Honestly, I’ve been so disappointed with how his character especially was written. I feel bad for Luke, but glad to hear that most people are not blaming him and recognize that at the end of the day he did his job and did it well. And I agree with him and the majority of people who felt that the entrapment line was over the line. I don’t mind that he said it out of anger or even as a trauma response to what happened with Marina, but the fact that the show chose never to address it again is what personally ruined part 2 for me. And maybe people will say get over it because it’s just one line, or you have to understand what he was feeling at the time, blah blah blah. That doesn’t justify him abusing the woman he swore to protect from the abuse of others. He should’ve apologized immediately for crossing the line or she should’ve have stood up to him and snapped back, the way Eloise does in her exchange with him, post reveal. Or they should’ve eliminated the line completely.
Wait, Whistledown has been fair in defending people from S1 too, not only S3. She saved Daphne by revealing the truth about Lord Berbrooke’s abandoned illegitimate child (from his affair with the maid). How he has not given any money and kick them out.That’s saving not only Daphne, but also the maid and her son.
Well, since LW contributed to that situation by putting Daphne down to talk up Marina, I don't think she should be given too much credit there. Anthony rightly takes most of the blame for that, but at best, Pen's unknowingly righting her own wrong. Mama Bridgerton and her maids did all the work, and deserve the credit, LW was just a pawn.
@laxxla Do you think anyone would believe if it’s just gossip going around maids?. Violet and the maids clearly got credits, but their goal is for LW to publish that. Being published at LW would make the gossip verified as the truth, even male in tons read LW and trust her words . Pen could decided to not publish berbrooke, but she did because it’s the truth and save bridgerton.Hence, LW is not just a pawn.
@HuntingViolets -Daphne still being complimented in the beginning as Diamond, because that’s the way it is. After that lots of suitors came to Bridgerton house.Then Anthony messed up. Her status going down . Just facts, the ton could see it without LW. Those male suitors talk behind her back after thrown off by Anthony. -Hence, Marina got lots of suitor lining up in Featherington hiuse) . It was quite obvious even when LW didn’t say anythin, clearly the ton saw it themselves LW purpose was to report and repeated exactly what the ton has been talking. Only the truth is being published, regardless hit might be biting, it’s the truth
@@scarletfilorvy If Lady Whistledown's purpose was to report and repeat exactly what the ton has been talking about, I'll tell you right now, only truth is not being published. Far from it. You don't just record what random people say and call it a day if the truth is anything you care about. You fact check. You investigate. These are things Penelope, a young girl who probably started out doing this as a lark, was unprepared and unable to do. Her first issue was heavy on the Bridgertons with "four perfectly handsome sons and four perfectly beautiful daughters" because they are whom she idealized, not because of some grand quest for truth or even newsworthiness.
I'm not sure when you watched the last two seasons, but it seems like you've turned LW in your head into this vicious attacker, so I'm wondering if it might have been a bit? LW spends a lot of time talking up the debutantes like Daphne, Marina, and Edwina, calling out gentlemen who are taking advantage of women, and talking about events. I think the first time we see the Queen upset about LW is because LW didn't talk about the party she threw (because the Featheringtons had been kicked out). Also, (38:20) Jane Asten published anonymously at this time, as did most female authors because it wasn't considered acceptable. Her books were literally published as "By a Lady".
I would argue that Penelope knowing about Marina for so long and only reporting on it the morning Colin and her were going to Gretna Green to marry was incredibly generous. She spends most of those episodes in season 1 either trying to get Colin to see that Marina doesn’t love him, to get Marina to confess to Colin or to get her mother to get between them. She didn’t want to ruin Marina, but did so as a last resort to save Colin. And while it may have been selfish in that it also benefited her, she saved Colin from a loveless marriage and from raising children who weren’t his. Children who would’ve been born a few months after their marriage so most people in the ton would’ve assumed that Colin ruined Marina and was forced to marry her, potentially ruining matches for his younger sisters.
You forget that LW had saved Daphné in the first season by spreading the truth about the horrible man who was trying to force her into mariage. She always tell the truth and sometimes it's hard but she is also very often really nice in a sassy way. Do you remember how happy the new ladies were to be mentionned in the first episode of the season? She was really nice here too and she was a lots of time. She wasn't about her family 😂 but it was all true. Portia redeem herself a little but she was really bad with Pen forcing her to debute too young and with horrible outfits..... For the Marina and Eloise cases it was both trying to save Colin and Eloise and also a little selfish. But she was kind of a child even if she is clever 😅
I know he is just trying to hit back and wants to marry her but doesnt want to admit after the betrayal, but even so if anyone entraped anyone it was Colin, not the virgin girl who didn't even know what he was doing to her truly meant. He compromised her by running after her carriage and doing all he did. Right there he was already compromising her and had to marry her. Again, he seduced her in their home. He was the experienced partner. Not her.
I mean to be fair I don't think Colin really thinks Pen entrapped him, he was more hittting her with words to hurt her. Cause he kind of softens and shows regret for his comment. Also though it was a really hurtful comment that was kind of a low blow, but I also kind of get it given his history with the whole Marina entrapment comment he kind of has a bit a trauma there. I also think Colin is one of the charaters that value honesty alot so Pen keeping this secret would have always been bad.
1. Firstly, she is 17-19 years old. 2. She did not dream that Colin would ever choose her. 3. She said what she thought when she was Whistledown. 4. Colin spun her into a relationship so quickly that she, who was in love with him, never had to solve the problem: how to present it all to him. In the end: She doesn't need to apologize. It was her way of avenging her humiliation. If a modern man or a modern woman does not understand this.. or if Colin and Eloise don't understand this, who have no reason to be so angry, that's their problem. There are such happy idealists around that she has no one to share this pain with. She just needs to be understood. For her resentment and envy.
No!! SA? They didn't have a 'relationship'. I think people forget that everything happened within like 24 hrs. Penelope was ready to marry Debling and Colin pursued her.
Colin's real fear is that Pen's feelings and respect for him weren't sincere--that she acquiesced to his proposal because he compromised her in the carriage. He doubles down by deflowering her the next day. This is why he kept expressing doubt about Pen's feelings before he found out about her secret--now he's wondering if all her feelings for him were a lie a la Marina. That's why Pen keeps leading with "I love you".
35:28 I think you are confusing wrongful withholding of information with entrapment its like saying reckless endangerment is the same as a murder attempt he has been the subject of an actual entrapment before(Marina), its natural for him to project his fear of being entrapped again onto Penelope also they've been intimate. so now, he has to marry her And yet he does not know what part of her response to his affections was real hence feeling 'trapped' the good part about their conversations regarding this is , that she does not deal with this in an arrogant or argumentative way. She loves him and keeps reassuring him. he needs that. I'd recommend Sammy Bates's BRILLIANT Character Analysis of Colin Bridgerton on her channel. its a must watch, after you r done with ep 8 ofc ep 8 spoiler alert (kinda) there's a part of his feelings regarding the whole situation that he confesses at the end so, he too, is kinda not being completely honest about his feelings at this moment, albeit understandably so. will take time to build back the trust. this show and the lead actors have presented that healthy trust building beautifully
Under the law in the US if you provide false inaccurate information about who you are and what you do that fraud is sufficient to have an annulment,. Because you are misrepresenting yourself in a legally binding contract. And not be honest about your life does in fact qualify.
You want to apply modern legal view of morality on a different continent in a different century in a fictional society? 🙃 If u value marital contracts & lawfare rather than societal acceptance, maybe soppy romance isn't for you😁 He is older, 'experienced' and she's barely exiting teens He already risked her ruin when he publicly interrupted her dance with Debling, esp considering that Debling's intention to propose were already public knowledge then (thanks to Mama Featherington) In pvt, her honor was already compromised when he turned up at her doorstep and bribed the maid to leave them alone, then kissed her on request They were BOTH unmindful of the consequences of their actions But he had the greater moral responsibility to abide by the societal norms Yet he effectively seduced her (& regretted later) They hooked up & consummated without a day of contemplation There was no attempt at all from his side to know her well enough And what info did she wihold? A pen name? And that she made money? It was WRONG ofc yes absolutely But More wrongful than seduction? Really? Should the annulment still apply in that society, when he has been reckless with the honour of an innocent girl(she didn't even know the procedure of intimate intercourse) without even the slightest attempt to formally court her? I don't think so SPOILER!!!! ------ Due credit to the writers for mentioning the possibility of annulment Would it still apply today? Maybe But then legal morality being placed over&above soceital morality is what gives you the fantastic divorce rates Enjoy extinction!! ☺️👍
20:30 Historically, brides did not wear white for their weddings. In fact, they wore very colorful dresses during the regency, the era in which the series is set. The custom of wearing white was later, and became a fashion thanks to Queen Victoria, who dressed completely in white during her own wedding, something very strange for her time
Completely disagree that Pen trapped Colin. It was very much the other way around - but the fact that there is in love with him and he's recognized that he's in love with her and she is trying to not hurt him while still having the person that they love. He might feel that way, and lash out that way because her mother suggested it to cut her down and he's doing the same thing. But there was no "entrapment" and you will understand that after the next chapter.
Also, it's covered by many other people already is that doesn't need to be repeated by me but Lady Whistledown was seldom maliciously angry and terrible to anyone undeserving. She has spread gossip, but even the "hard comments about Colin" early in the season had to do with Colin honestly behaving like some kind of pirate sweeping into town and saying stuff that was pretty rude about her at the end of the last season. He apologized, but not til after she had written it.
What do you mean. She also saved Daphne from marrying Burbrooke. Honestly, it’s OK not to like Penelope. It seems like you don’t because everything she does you are reading as though she’s doing it with malice. Her telling Colin that she wrote about him because he was not the person she knew him to be is not her saying that she wants him to be what she imagined. It is saying that she recognized that when he came back from his trip, he was putting up a front, that it wasn’t the real him. Agree with her or not, she actually does know him, and he admitted himself that he was putting up a front. So no, she is not trying to make him into something that he is not she is saying I knew that was not the real you.
Lol Colin trapped her. He was just lashing out. And LW has done more good than harm, specially for the Bridgertons with Daphne, Colin and saving Eloise too.
4 місяці тому+6
Please do not forget what Lady Whistledown wrote about Lord Berbrooke not being a man of honor in S1, and how she was writing complimenting the debutants this season. Penelope did not only engage in gossip for selfish reasons all the time (although she did sometimes), she has also reported things that were unfair, as well as good things. She named Daphne the Diamond, etc. People often forget the good things she has done as LW.
Wholeheartedly disagree with the entrapment comment. With the explanation given in the video, then one can argue that Colin had entrapped Penelope also. He ruined her engagement with debling for his own personal gain, lied about why he ruined the engagement (he said debling “wasn’t right” for Penelope when it was really because he had his own agenda), and additionally he made sexual advances to Penelope who is not well educated about sex! How is she to know she’s been compromised when her only explanation for sex was marina’s cake metaphor? Penelope had always viewed Colin as an impossibility, a fantasy for her own daydreams, and she decided after S3E2 that she was closing the book on Colin, that those fantasies were never going to come to fruition. Im not saying Penelope didn’t do anything wrong, but Penelope never had the intention to be with Colin so I don’t believe she can entrap him. I think a lot of people are missing the fact that every single Bridgerton character is incredibly and realistically flawed. With these flaws, one can argue that every character in Bridgerton is an awful person. I think we are supposed to look at these characters with compassion and understanding, taking into account the cards their life dealt them and what they decided to do with them. Especially considering Cressida’s storyline, a foil to Penelope’s, it was necessary to show Cressida’s softer side in part 1 to show she has been hardened by the need to survive. I don’t support her actions but I understand her needs. I say the same with Penelope, she had to do what she needed to do to have her needs met. They are not intrinsically bad people, they are people looking for an escape from their current reality.
This isn’t the first time pen used lady whistledown to help ppl. When lord berbrook was after Daphne she putted the fact he had a child with his maid that he wasn’t caring for. That is how she got out of her engagement to him. As for Colin, while her feelings were involved she also never thought he would have feelings for her. So what she did was more about saving him from being married to Marina while she was pregnant with another mans children. For so she has actually never lied on anything she said. She only repeated in her column what was already being spoken by members of the ton. I get Colin being angry at pen. I even get the entrapment comment but if we are going to be honest he entrapped her. She intended to marry lord Debling. Colin is the one who ruin her prospective proposal and then followed her & climbed into the carriage with her unchaperoned. If anyone had seen them they would’ve been forced to marry anyway just based on that bc he was so forward with her. And when it came to them sleeping together. He had the option of calling off the engagement bc no one knew they had slept together. So she wouldn’t have been ruined in the face of society for being “intimate with a man”
That three-person chair is called a Chaperone chair, they make sofa versions of it as well. Basically, a way to have courting couples sit close together (but not touching!) and having a place for their chaperone to sit as well, to monitor the conversation.
At the time Pen wrote what she wrote about Colin at the start of the season, which was completely true, he had not yet apologized to her for mocking her loudly in front of a whole group of men from the ton and everyone within hearing distance at a party in her own family's garden at the end of S2. If it was after Colin's apology when they were friends again and on speaking terms, then it would've definitely been better for her to talk to him in person about it. But at the time she wrote it? I get why she was furious and wanted to strike back, honestly.
I agree with the statement that it feels like the show "needs to convince us the main couple is a good couple" and yet I also think that is consistent with how they have handled the other main couples so far. 🤷 In Season One, Daphne and Simon started off as a mere ruse, and then when things got "better" between them, he was still misleading her about his fertility and she outright r*ped him. In Season Two, Anthony chose Kate's sister and then while preparing to marry Edwina, was actively having an emotional (bordering on physical) affair with Kate. Then Anthony swipes Kate's V-Card, the morning after which she almost dies, and he doesn't even visit her during her convalescence. This show has a nasty (and yet highly entertaining) way of waiting until the finale to "Smooth things over". But it also treats these love stories as rocky (and yes, sometimes toxic) beginnings to lasting, lifelong, loving relationships. The overarching message seems to be... If you marry for love, that love can overcome anything. And while that may not be true in EVERY case...I will say that as someone coming up on 20 years with my own spouse this August, it's certainly true in some cases. I think it's refreshing that rather than a lot of romance stories which have "happy endings" this show challenges the concept of a happy ending by showing us that finding love isn't about everything falling into place and just being easy. Rather, it's about choosing someone and then honouring that choice day in and day out until (hopefully) death do you part, like in Violet's case. The ending isn't the happy part, the joy comes from a life well lived. ❤️🙏❤️
I can see your point, however, I feel that Colin doesn't truly believed she trapped him and in fact feels like he trapped her. Later in episode 5 at the engagement ball when she starts panicking he makes a comment that if she is starting to feel differently and only said yes to be engaged due to being wrapped up in everything after the carriage he would understand. There was another instance I believe where again he makes a comment about releasing her from the engagement if her feelings changed and both instances of this happened after they were intimate. I think this shows that his remark later in episode 7 about only marrying because of being intimate and a man of honor isn't completely accurate. I think he still really wanted to marry her because he loves her but was still hurt and grappling with his feelings of insecurity, past trauma with actual entrapment and lack of purpose and self-worth.
Surely my favorite episodes of the season ❤💒 I might understand why the way their resolution is coming about is not your preferred story. I also feel like you are pretty distracted by your estimations of the timeline. So Penelope talks to Eloise in the park, saying that she's due to marry Colin "this week", and that he followed her "last night". So my best guess is between him finding out, confronting eloise, and then meeting to finalize plans for the wedding breakfast with the mamas, is approximately 5 days. So we assume that they lived in that happyish bubble of episode 6 for 2 weeks after the first banns were read. If that would change your opinion of their fight timeline 😊
And then of course the night before the wedding so another couple of days after that planning session, they have a fight in the street he gets wedding advice from Kate and decides to make the most of his wedding, even if they have big issues to resolve
It is silly to say Pen entrapped Colin. He is the one who broke in and stopped her from being engaged, got into her carriage unchaperoned, and initiated intimacy. He did this all within moments, Penelope had no idea what his intentions were when she let him in, she didn’t know he was in love with her. If anything Colin entrapped Penelope, after the display he made at the ball and then getting into the carriage with her unchaperoned would have been enough to ruin her. I’m not saying she shouldn’t have been honest after the fact, I agree she should have of course, but I also understand her character. She has been pining for this person for as long as she can remember, she is technically a spinster in society’s eyes - she never thought marriage or love was going to happen to her and al of a sudden she is magically getting attention from a man she thought was far beyond her reach. It’s human to get swept up in the moment and to fear losing it. No justification, just applying some understanding to why someone may struggle.
Im starting to get the impression that you really don’t like Penelope, which is fine, but I think it’s tainting your interpretation of some of her actions. I don’t think Colin means it at all when he says the entrapment comment, I think he says it because he knows it will hurt her and he’s hurting, but in your assessment I think you’re also forgetting that less than 24 hours before they slept together, she was prepared to accept Lord Debling’s proposal and Colin ruined that for her. In every sense of the word, he pursued her, and I understand that he didn’t know the truth, but she didn’t know he had feelings for her until they were in the carriage. It was also a whirlwind 24 hours for her, with Colin directing all of it. She barely had time to catch her breath let alone find the right way to tell him she was Whistledown. Also, Colin isn’t blameless in this, if he’d been a gentleman and not gotten into her carriage unchaperoned, not taken her unchaperoned to their new home and slept with her, they could’ve called off the engagement if that’s what he wanted. Not that I think it is, he’s still very much in love with her despite the Whistledown of it all. Also, she didn’t write about Colin because she wanted her version of him back. She wrote about him because he was pretending to be someone he wasn’t and she was calling him out for it. Should she have said it to his face? Yes, but that the time she still wasn’t talking to him. And let’s be real, Colin isn’t actually mad about her words, he’s mad because she so accurately called him out for pretending to be a someone he wasn’t and seeing that even he was unsure who he was. Colin is insecure, he’s a third son, only really pursued to the way he is because he’s wealthy, from an inheritance from his father, and he doesn’t know his purpose. He’s lost when he comes back in season 3 and he’s pretending to be suave and charming to mask this and he’s insecure that Penelope saw right through it, but of course she did, she knows him better than anyone. He’s also hurt because part of the reason he changed when he came back is because Penelope ignored him during his travels and so to find out that she’s also the one who called him out for his change is a blow to his ego.
Genevieve and Penelope are sitting in a courting chair. You can find them online or possibly if you go antiquing. I would say Genevieve is more a part of the merchant class than the lower class, as someone who owns her own business. Most brides at this time (1815, probably) did not get married in white, although some did wear white muslin. Colors were popular at this time. From the late 1790s till circa 1801, white was popular and later, after Queen Victoria wore a white wedding gown. I'm not sure when people started associating white with "purity" (so-called). "With my body, I thee worship" is from the Book of Common Prayer. I think it's quite beautful. I'm seeing a lot of reactors who have never heard it and I'm wondering whether they just haven't seen the same movies and TV programs I have. It's ridiculous for Kate and Anthony to take an arduous four-to-six-month sea voyage to India while she is pregnant, particularly after his experience with his mother and sister almost dying.
Thank you for especially the last part It was already ridiculous enough that Kate & Edwina left colonial india for England in the first place Mighty stupid of them They had many more culturally-makes-no-sense-to-an-Indian attributes in S2 (Am an Indian in India; it took me some serious suspension of all my sense of reality to digest the S2 plotline 😂)
I like that you understood why Colin is angry and why he would doubt her. She did lie to him, so why would he trust anything she's said? Also, her not wanting to let go of LW puts him in an incredible bad position. He has to carry this huge secret and lie to his whole family. You even understood the ENTRAPMENT line. I obviously don't think she tried to entrap him, but she did hide a major secret from him, a secret she knew could be a deal breaker for him, and had no intention to tell him (if not for Eloise), before allowing him to take all kinds of liberties. Sure, she didn't know much about sex, but she consented to something she knew was not proper, while hiding things from him. Kudos on getting that because most people didn't. Also, it's not that they didn't see each other for 3 weeks. In the scene with Eloise, Pen says: he discovered me LAST NIGHT. and WE ARE TO BE MARRIED THIS WEEK if he'll still have me. So he probably didn't see her for a few days before the wedding, which means he was probably mad for like... a week or so. From what I picked up, the timeline was: he discovers her the same week they are to be married. Then he sleeps on the sofa for two nights, and they work things out on the third night as a married couple. I'd say he was mad for a week, maybe 9 days. If you ask me, he got over it SO FAST. Eloise was mad for months. The man is WHIPPED. At the wedding you can see he's trying, he even looks happy a few times, and he would've probably have melted a little bit more if the Queen had showed up.
With my body I thee worship was once a standard part of the vows along with obey. There was also a part about "with all my worldly goods I thee endow."
Why does the woman always get vilified for having sex? Colin initiated the sex, she didn’t know what sex was. Colin entrapped her knowingly if anything. He compromised her in the carriage knowing he would have to marry her. Colin did all of that. Penelope didn’t seduce or entrap him. Everything sexual came from Colin. Whatever he did or didn’t know was not down to Pen at that point. She never in a million years thought he’d find her even remotely attractive.
Best discussion of the entrapment issue. Colin has such a trauma response to the betrayal, originating from from his experience with Marina. He loves her but had to work through it first.
In this era it was actually almost unheard of to wear white for a weddings. When Queen Victoria did it in 1840 it was shocking, but also created a lot of liking for the idea. Associating it with purity was on no one's mind.
What I like about what Colin says here, is that he isn't asking Penelope at any point to stop writing. Not once. It's about stop writing as Lady Bridgerton. And the reason is extremely valid. The queen has basically put a price on Lady Whistledown;s head. Even if no one in the ton figured it out, eventually the news would pass to the commoners. Eventually someone who has witnessed Penelope be the front person. Would sale that information to a Lord or Lady in a means to get coin. It would happen. Knowing that a lord or lady would get nearly half a million in current US funds. Would make you able to get a far more then what the common laborer would earn, easily. Since the Queen is pissed, and threatening her wrath. Let's look at what she could do. Now in this fictional world we see her acting as the senior royal, technically not accurate in history but this is fiction. As the royal running things, she can stripe titles from both individuals and families. She can seize assets. If she honestly thinks the Bridgerton's are the ones. She could technically ruin, several families. From Daphne and Simon, to Anthony and Kate, to Colin and Penelope, to all the unattached members of the family. She has that power. And let's be very clear, pissed off Royals have done some really terrible things....So it's certainly possible. Even if you think its not her style its still legitimate risk. Then could Penelope actually write? Yes. Women could publish for several years. She has both her own resources, let alone those of what Colin's share of his family estate would allow. She has connections in both printing and distribution. So yes should could write. She could have her voice be out in the public. Now she starting anew wouldn't have the reach of Bridgerton. And I certainly would recommend if tying to keep things under wraps not suddenly start a new gossip release. But Prose, short stories and full novels were published by women of this time. She could publish (don't know if she is skilled in non gossip based writing), but she would have no issue or barriers outside of her own ability in doing so. The real cost to her is losing her creation. And that is a loss. I do not diminish it. But if you could still work in your field, but likely have less success, but those actions shielded not only you but your new extended family. Would you not even consider it?
White wedding dresses have been a thing for many hundreds of years. Of course, it was not always possible as pure white fibers were hard to come by, and bleaching techniques were not there yet. White did symbolize purity for some cultures, in others it was a protective color to ward away evil spirits and curses from the bride...and in others, it was simply a status symbol because of how difficult it was to produce. Not until 1840...when Queen Victoria got married in her white dress did it become "Conventional". Because, as throughout all of history....the public followed along with the royals and everything that they did. And they had a much easier time getting pure white fibers.
Thank you for acknowledging Colin's feelings, all i've heard online is he doesn't deserve her and he spent too much time being mad at her. He had every right!
I honestly do not like how Eloise treated Cresida. Definitely Cresida is a bad character, but Eloise did not help or show empathy to her situation at all. Eloise knew exactly why Cresida declared herself LW and she also knew that she lied and why. Eloise could ask her mother and lady Danbury to help her find another husband (or something like this), but she did nothing, and was concerned only about Pen and Colin. Not a good friend.
I agree with you that Eloise is a bad friend to Cressida, and wasn’t always a great friend to Penelope, because she’s very self involved, but because of that, I’m not sure she actually knows why Cressida confessed to being lady Whistledown. She likely wasn’t paying attention when everyone was talking about how LW could come forward and claim the reward and wouldn’t need to marry, so she didn’t follow Cressida’s logic and probably thinks Cressida did it for attention. Eloise also has to play along that she thinks Cressida is LW, even to Cressida, because she can’t admit that she knows who the real LW is. Outwardly it therefore makes sense that she’d rebuff Cressida. If Cressida had told her outside the church that she lied and wasn’t LW and was trying to get out of the marriage, Eloise maybe would’ve helped her, but she has to pretend to think that Cressida is LW to protect Penelope, and Eloise is mad about what LW wrote about her. Also, Eloise wouldn’t have been able to help Cressida avoid the marriage to Lord Greer. She’s like 19-20 years old, and a woman, there’s nothing she can do, unless they found out gossip about Greer similar to Berbrooke that they could publish in Whistledown to take Greer out. Before LW took out Berbrooke, Daphne and Violet had both accepted that Daphne would’ve needed to marry him. Violet was powerless to help her own daughter, she definitely couldn’t have helped Cressida.
I do think Penelope should have told Colin before they had sex, and when he took her to the house was a good opportunity. And she should have told him before announcing the engagement through Whistledown. Eloise was still pressing for it at that point, and it's all the delaying that gave her the opportunity to have cold feet too. I agree that the season is geared more towards Penelope than Colin, and it should be about both of them.
Im sorry but Colin wasnt entitled to know about lady whistledown. It was penelopes secret to keep, a dangerous secret that she cant afford to get out. Colin has always been a bit flighty and unreliable.
Plus why would she tell anyone before? It’d have put him at risk. Had her and Colin courted and she didn’t tell him then yes, but suggesting she should be told him as her friend is crazy and they went from friends to engaged within hours because of Colin!
I think Pen should have cancelled (or at least postponed) the wedding herself after Colin told about entrapment. The rest of the season in this case could be the same though, just the wedding at the end. This way it would have been much more logical for the characters. I also do not understand why they did not have any decent conversation after Colin found she is LW? Definitely Pen wanted to explain herself. She could at least write a letter to him.
Sorry, he’s totally wrong here on entrapment. Saying she entrapped Colin is ridiculous. She didn’t lie to him before he initiated everything. He ruined her proposal, he ruined her in the carriage, he proposed and took her straight to his family with no pause, then sleeps with her the next day. She didn’t tell anyone before that about LW and why would she tell him? She’d endanger her friend and she had zero thought he cared for her or would ever care for her. If you say she should’ve told him between the proposal and him finding out, then sure. I agree. But no way in any way of looking at it pen entrapped Colin. Also 3 weeks hasn’t passed. We hear at the start of ep7 that they are getting married that week, so they’ve clearly seen each other and he found out within the same week of the marriage. As for Colin changing, she was reminding him that he was putting on a facade. He hasn’t changed, he was pretending to please society and he didn’t like it and she knew it and so did he and Eloise who didn’t think she’d said anything bad that season. Her saying she loved him was vital to Colin. He spent 5 doubtful she loved him and then after finding the truth he doubted it was real. Her reinforcing that she loves him is her declaring it clearly and he can see she means it, that it’s real.
:Let's be very clear here, first we don't see every line of gossip published, but Penelope's column has been both truthful at times and hurtful at time. When she outs Marina, she did place scandal on both her house and the Bridgerton's. She had every means to end the engagement at any time. Simply grab an escort and walk across the square and speak to whatever head of the house is currently there (be it at the time Violent or Anthony). Doing that would force them to restrict Colins movements, and end the engagement. But doing so in a way that didn't same both the Featherington household or the Bridgerton household, or paint Colin publicly as a fool, and cause the utter ruin of Marina (that would have happened eventually). But it was Daphne that stopped the shaming of the families (it based on gender bias would always be more on the Featherington's). And it was Daphne that provided the means to get marina a stable and respectful marriage (even if it wasn't what she would have wanted). But Colin's foolishness would remain a known thing. And yes Violet spreading the rumor truth about Burbrook helped Daphne. But understand this. Penelope had no knowledge on if this was accurate information. Meaning she took unverified gossip and spread it. Do you honestly think every bit of gossip spread was accurate? Seriously. And of course the fact that Pence;lpe spread the gossip that no one was going to court Daphne is what lead Burbrook to even consider courting her. So when we hear from characters that her writing this season has been fairer take them at their word that material we don't see (which would be the bulk of every issue) isn't quite so kind and fair.
I completely agree that Pen's excuses for writing about Colin were a bit gross. She was lashing out at him because she was angry, hurt and jealous, but as you said, that is the sort of conversation that should be kept between the two of them. The conversation they did have about it was great, but also soured by her initial response. She wants him the way she wants him, and didn't like that he changed, yet she's never once bothered to ask him why. Him believing that she lacks respect for him is completely understandable. I know she's a gossip, and a fundamental lack of consideration for other people's feelings and privacy is a given, but he was her friend for a long time. He always protected her, and saw her when nobody else did. What happened in 2x08 sucks, but one incident shouldn't negate all those years. Besides, Pen's intentional, pre-meditated, public attack on him was much worse than Colin's one-off, spur-of-the-moment comment to a limited number of people. All their conversations in S3 have been primarily focussed on her, largely because she let him believe he needed to earn back her friendship, when she'd already gotten her petty revenge. Her crush on him may have been one-sided in the first two seasons, but their friendship never was, until this season. Whether it's because the writers listened to all that toxic, entitled nonsense people kept saying about wanting to see Colin grovel, which is really gross, or for some other reason, that does not make for a healthy dynamic. I mean, she wanted him so badly for so long, but now that she has his love, she cares more about her ego? She'd really choose trashy gossip over the life she could have with him? Really?! Also, you were spot on about Eloise and Colin loyally keeping Pen's secrets, no matter how hurt and angry they were about them. Which is kind of ironic, since Penelope herself has little respect for anyone else's secrets.
What happened in 2x08 sucks, only sucks? Colin know that by saying that in front of public, in front of those friends so called gentleman, even worse at her own family’s Featherington ball, would absolutely ruined her prospects in marriage even further. Colin is the only friend she has, beside Eloise. Yet he said those words for what? To get along with his fake friend. Remember this, Pen did not write a single bad thing about Colin in LW before he also publicly humiliated her in front of his friend. Both Colin and Pen did mistakes on being careless about commenting each other publicly. Pen has given up on pursuing Colin too, so she distanced herself from him. Colin himself did acknowledged his facade changed personality, it's not only him Eloise also recognise he's not himself. Pen was not the only one who recognize that or try to get the personality that she loves back. It is a good thing in the end Colin being himself again and become a great writer, all by Pen's encouragement. Gross? It’s Colin’s choice to approach Pen, offering her to help find husband. Did Pen ask that from him or forced him to help her? No. Because Colin himself know after saying Pen is special to him, then afterwards saying those hurtful words to his friends laughing was damaging publicly because ‘he wasn’t the man he supposed to be last year’ quoted in ep 1. If he think Pen shouldn’t be offended, he would not apologize and search for her. She cares more about her ego? In the episode 2x07 or 2x08 , Pen also was ready to give up being whistledown for Eloise, she burned her quills and all. Choose trashy gossip over life with Colin?. Did you watch ep 3x06?. She decided to quit and told Gen, even though LW is part of her, her voice. She’s given up being LW to be with her love match Colin, until Eloise was panicking again cause Cressida impersonating LW would harm Bridgerton. So Pen decided to publish one last time to reveal Cressida lies. Colin found out. She didn’t write any Whistledown afterwards. She respected Colin. She even offer annulments in their marriage, so she couldn’t harm him or his family. In the end, Colin also respected and accepted Pen as LW, cause they are one voice. He admitted he was envious of her life work. They both accepted each other, flaws and all, and already forgiven the mistakes in the past and be happy. Pen would not hide behind LW anymore, will write in her own name, just like Colin write published journal in his own name.
I feel like I'm in the minority here but I still have a lot of empathy for Cressida. She has literally nobody. Pen still has Eloise indirectly looking out for her (covertly asking Colin how she's doing, encouraging him to still be friends with her, etc.) while Cressida has one "true" friend who literally does not give a shit about her problems and abandons her. The lashing out at the Bridgertons comes from hurt, I think. It's not okay but she's in a terrible situation. Either she was being married off to this controlling old man or sent off to live in the country with an aunt and literally nobody in her home or life gives a shit about her so she just wants the same thing Pen always wanted as well: financial independence and literally one person who truly gives a shit about her. Ironic that they both latched on to Eloise for that.
Penelope:
Saved Daphne from a forced marriage by exposing the guy.
Saved Colin from Marina’s entrapment (it wasn’t entirely selfish, do you even remember? she tried to get him to let go and also Marina to give up before she exposed her, she didnt want to hurt any of them, but of course, she prioritized Colin while knowing he still wouldn’t return her feelings)
Saved Theo from death or imprisonment if he were ever caught with Eloise
Saved Eloise, Francesca and Hyacinth from ruin marriage prospects if Eloise was caught with Theo
Exposed the mistreatment of young ladies and the egos and hypocrisy of the ton
People: She attacked those poor people
She attacks the elite lmao (yes im aware she is part of the elite, but they ostracized her so she showed them their true face) honestly, these are nobles, so fuck them
She did, she had many great intentions, and she did some good. But she also publicly ruined Marina (honestly fuck Marina, but that was still a thing) and humiliated Colin (he probably felt stupid everyone knew he was played for a fool), when she could've tried to tell him (or Violet) the truth to his face, instead of saying Marina loved another. She wanted to out Marina but she didn't want the blame for it (selfish and relatable, honestly).
She sure saved Eloise from a mess of her friend's own making, but it also put her reputation in danger, which made her upset. So, to Colin, LW has done many bad things. Understandably, he wouldn't like whoever that was. He didn't know the intentions behind it, only knew it was a gossip mag.
And to know Pen has been lying to him, when he didn't know her to be a liar, must've hurt him a lot. The only other time he's show romantic interest in a woman, he was deceived, and now he's being deceived AGAIN.
Of course he grows to recognize there was good in Pen's actions and even appreciate the value of LW. By my estimation, he found her out in the same week they got married, as Pen mentioned to Eloise, and then after he's married he sleeps on the sofa for 2 nights, the third night (the ball) they already make up, so he was probably mad for a little over a week. So I'd say her speeches in ep 7 really got to him. Eloise not being able to forgive for months, or even be inclined to let Pen explain herself is what really pissed me off.
but Theo 🥲🥲
@@fmellarkeven if she did tell he was still honor bound to marry marina in that time it was considered not honorable to take back a proposal for a man a woman could take it back( if it was not about being in a compromising position) and even if he choice not to marry Marina if she told him and people later found out that marina was pregnant people would assume that the baby was his and he and his family would be even more ruined so in order to protect him so that Colin did not have to marry marina without looking not honorable she has to publish that marina was pregnant before she came to Mayfair
Even the actor himself said Colin knew it was him who entrapped her. He was actually making sure she was reminded they were intimate so they should marry because he wanted to make sure they would marry but did not want to admit it bcs he was hurt by her lie about LW.
I must of missed him saying that, but glad to hear he did. Honestly, I’ve been so disappointed with how his character especially was written. I feel bad for Luke, but glad to hear that most people are not blaming him and recognize that at the end of the day he did his job and did it well. And I agree with him and the majority of people who felt that the entrapment line was over the line. I don’t mind that he said it out of anger or even as a trauma response to what happened with Marina, but the fact that the show chose never to address it again is what personally ruined part 2 for me. And maybe people will say get over it because it’s just one line, or you have to understand what he was feeling at the time, blah blah blah. That doesn’t justify him abusing the woman he swore to protect from the abuse of others. He should’ve apologized immediately for crossing the line or she should’ve have stood up to him and snapped back, the way Eloise does in her exchange with him, post reveal. Or they should’ve eliminated the line completely.
Wait, Whistledown has been fair in defending people from S1 too, not only S3. She saved Daphne by revealing the truth about Lord Berbrooke’s abandoned illegitimate child (from his affair with the maid). How he has not given any money and kick them out.That’s saving not only Daphne, but also the maid and her son.
She also declared her "all but unmarriageable,."
Well, since LW contributed to that situation by putting Daphne down to talk up Marina, I don't think she should be given too much credit there. Anthony rightly takes most of the blame for that, but at best, Pen's unknowingly righting her own wrong. Mama Bridgerton and her maids did all the work, and deserve the credit, LW was just a pawn.
@laxxla Do you think anyone would believe if it’s just gossip going around maids?.
Violet and the maids clearly got credits, but their goal is for LW to publish that.
Being published at LW would make the gossip verified as the truth, even male in tons read LW and trust her words .
Pen could decided to not publish berbrooke, but she did because it’s the truth and save bridgerton.Hence, LW is not just a pawn.
@HuntingViolets
-Daphne still being complimented in the beginning as Diamond, because that’s the way it is. After that lots of suitors came to Bridgerton house.Then Anthony messed up. Her status going down . Just facts, the ton could see it without LW. Those male suitors talk behind her back after thrown off by Anthony.
-Hence, Marina got lots of suitor lining up in Featherington hiuse) . It was quite obvious even when LW didn’t say anythin, clearly the ton saw it themselves
LW purpose was to report and repeated exactly what the ton has been talking. Only the truth is being published, regardless hit might be biting, it’s the truth
@@scarletfilorvy If Lady Whistledown's purpose was to report and repeat exactly what the ton has been talking about, I'll tell you right now, only truth is not being published. Far from it. You don't just record what random people say and call it a day if the truth is anything you care about. You fact check. You investigate. These are things Penelope, a young girl who probably started out doing this as a lark, was unprepared and unable to do. Her first issue was heavy on the Bridgertons with "four perfectly handsome sons and four perfectly beautiful daughters" because they are whom she idealized, not because of some grand quest for truth or even newsworthiness.
I'm not sure when you watched the last two seasons, but it seems like you've turned LW in your head into this vicious attacker, so I'm wondering if it might have been a bit? LW spends a lot of time talking up the debutantes like Daphne, Marina, and Edwina, calling out gentlemen who are taking advantage of women, and talking about events. I think the first time we see the Queen upset about LW is because LW didn't talk about the party she threw (because the Featheringtons had been kicked out).
Also, (38:20) Jane Asten published anonymously at this time, as did most female authors because it wasn't considered acceptable. Her books were literally published as "By a Lady".
I would argue that Penelope knowing about Marina for so long and only reporting on it the morning Colin and her were going to Gretna Green to marry was incredibly generous. She spends most of those episodes in season 1 either trying to get Colin to see that Marina doesn’t love him, to get Marina to confess to Colin or to get her mother to get between them. She didn’t want to ruin Marina, but did so as a last resort to save Colin. And while it may have been selfish in that it also benefited her, she saved Colin from a loveless marriage and from raising children who weren’t his. Children who would’ve been born a few months after their marriage so most people in the ton would’ve assumed that Colin ruined Marina and was forced to marry her, potentially ruining matches for his younger sisters.
You forget that LW had saved Daphné in the first season by spreading the truth about the horrible man who was trying to force her into mariage.
She always tell the truth and sometimes it's hard but she is also very often really nice in a sassy way.
Do you remember how happy the new ladies were to be mentionned in the first episode of the season? She was really nice here too and she was a lots of time.
She wasn't about her family 😂 but it was all true. Portia redeem herself a little but she was really bad with Pen forcing her to debute too young and with horrible outfits.....
For the Marina and Eloise cases it was both trying to save Colin and Eloise and also a little selfish. But she was kind of a child even if she is clever 😅
For Marina, Penelope was out of time as well. They were leaving first thing in the morning to sneak away and get married.
I know he is just trying to hit back and wants to marry her but doesnt want to admit after the betrayal, but even so if anyone entraped anyone it was Colin, not the virgin girl who didn't even know what he was doing to her truly meant. He compromised her by running after her carriage and doing all he did. Right there he was already compromising her and had to marry her. Again, he seduced her in their home. He was the experienced partner. Not her.
I mean to be fair I don't think Colin really thinks Pen entrapped him, he was more hittting her with words to hurt her. Cause he kind of softens and shows regret for his comment. Also though it was a really hurtful comment that was kind of a low blow, but I also kind of get it given his history with the whole Marina entrapment comment he kind of has a bit a trauma there. I also think Colin is one of the charaters that value honesty alot so Pen keeping this secret would have always been bad.
1. Firstly, she is 17-19 years old.
2. She did not dream that Colin would ever choose her.
3. She said what she thought when she was Whistledown.
4. Colin spun her into a relationship so quickly that she, who was in love with him, never had to solve the problem: how to present it all to him.
In the end: She doesn't need to apologize. It was her way of avenging her humiliation.
If a modern man or a modern woman does not understand this.. or if Colin and Eloise don't understand this, who have no reason to be so angry, that's their problem.
There are such happy idealists around that she has no one to share this pain with.
She just needs to be understood.
For her resentment and envy.
No!! SA? They didn't have a 'relationship'. I think people forget that everything happened within like 24 hrs. Penelope was ready to marry Debling and Colin pursued her.
Colin's real fear is that Pen's feelings and respect for him weren't sincere--that she acquiesced to his proposal because he compromised her in the carriage. He doubles down by deflowering her the next day. This is why he kept expressing doubt about Pen's feelings before he found out about her secret--now he's wondering if all her feelings for him were a lie a la Marina. That's why Pen keeps leading with "I love you".
35:28 I think you are confusing wrongful withholding of information with entrapment
its like saying reckless endangerment is the same as a murder attempt
he has been the subject of an actual entrapment before(Marina), its natural for him to project his fear of being entrapped again onto Penelope
also they've been intimate. so now, he has to marry her
And yet he does not know what part of her response to his affections was real
hence feeling 'trapped'
the good part about their conversations regarding this is , that she does not deal with this in an arrogant or argumentative way. She loves him and keeps reassuring him. he needs that.
I'd recommend Sammy Bates's BRILLIANT Character Analysis of Colin Bridgerton on her channel. its a must watch, after you r done with ep 8 ofc
ep 8 spoiler alert (kinda)
there's a part of his feelings regarding the whole situation that he confesses at the end
so, he too, is kinda not being completely honest about his feelings at this moment, albeit understandably so. will take time to build back the trust. this show and the lead actors have presented that healthy trust building beautifully
Under the law in the US if you provide false inaccurate information about who you are and what you do that fraud is sufficient to have an annulment,. Because you are misrepresenting yourself in a legally binding contract. And not be honest about your life does in fact qualify.
You want to apply modern legal view of morality on a different continent in a different century in a fictional society?
🙃
If u value marital contracts & lawfare rather than societal acceptance, maybe soppy romance isn't for you😁
He is older, 'experienced' and she's barely exiting teens
He already risked her ruin when he publicly interrupted her dance with Debling, esp considering that Debling's intention to propose were already public knowledge then (thanks to Mama Featherington)
In pvt, her honor was already compromised when he turned up at her doorstep and bribed the maid to leave them alone, then kissed her on request
They were BOTH unmindful of the consequences of their actions
But he had the greater moral responsibility to abide by the societal norms
Yet he effectively seduced her (& regretted later)
They hooked up & consummated without a day of contemplation
There was no attempt at all from his side to know her well enough
And what info did she wihold?
A pen name? And that she made money?
It was WRONG ofc yes absolutely
But
More wrongful than seduction? Really?
Should the annulment still apply in that society, when he has been reckless with the honour of an innocent girl(she didn't even know the procedure of intimate intercourse) without even the slightest attempt to formally court her?
I don't think so
SPOILER!!!! ------ Due credit to the writers for mentioning the possibility of annulment
Would it still apply today? Maybe
But then legal morality being placed over&above soceital morality is what gives you the fantastic divorce rates
Enjoy extinction!!
☺️👍
20:30 Historically, brides did not wear white for their weddings. In fact, they wore very colorful dresses during the regency, the era in which the series is set. The custom of wearing white was later, and became a fashion thanks to Queen Victoria, who dressed completely in white during her own wedding, something very strange for her time
Completely disagree that Pen trapped Colin. It was very much the other way around - but the fact that there is in love with him and he's recognized that he's in love with her and she is trying to not hurt him while still having the person that they love. He might feel that way, and lash out that way because her mother suggested it to cut her down and he's doing the same thing. But there was no "entrapment" and you will understand that after the next chapter.
Also, it's covered by many other people already is that doesn't need to be repeated by me but Lady Whistledown was seldom maliciously angry and terrible to anyone undeserving. She has spread gossip, but even the "hard comments about Colin" early in the season had to do with Colin honestly behaving like some kind of pirate sweeping into town and saying stuff that was pretty rude about her at the end of the last season. He apologized, but not til after she had written it.
What do you mean. She also saved Daphne from marrying Burbrooke.
Honestly, it’s OK not to like Penelope. It seems like you don’t because everything she does you are reading as though she’s doing it with malice. Her telling Colin that she wrote about him because he was not the person she knew him to be is not her saying that she wants him to be what she imagined. It is saying that she recognized that when he came back from his trip, he was putting up a front, that it wasn’t the real him. Agree with her or not, she actually does know him, and he admitted himself that he was putting up a front. So no, she is not trying to make him into something that he is not she is saying I knew that was not the real you.
Lol Colin trapped her. He was just lashing out. And LW has done more good than harm, specially for the Bridgertons with Daphne, Colin and saving Eloise too.
Please do not forget what Lady Whistledown wrote about Lord Berbrooke not being a man of honor in S1, and how she was writing complimenting the debutants this season. Penelope did not only engage in gossip for selfish reasons all the time (although she did sometimes), she has also reported things that were unfair, as well as good things. She named Daphne the Diamond, etc. People often forget the good things she has done as LW.
Wholeheartedly disagree with the entrapment comment. With the explanation given in the video, then one can argue that Colin had entrapped Penelope also. He ruined her engagement with debling for his own personal gain, lied about why he ruined the engagement (he said debling “wasn’t right” for Penelope when it was really because he had his own agenda), and additionally he made sexual advances to Penelope who is not well educated about sex! How is she to know she’s been compromised when her only explanation for sex was marina’s cake metaphor?
Penelope had always viewed Colin as an impossibility, a fantasy for her own daydreams, and she decided after S3E2 that she was closing the book on Colin, that those fantasies were never going to come to fruition. Im not saying Penelope didn’t do anything wrong, but Penelope never had the intention to be with Colin so I don’t believe she can entrap him.
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that every single Bridgerton character is incredibly and realistically flawed. With these flaws, one can argue that every character in Bridgerton is an awful person. I think we are supposed to look at these characters with compassion and understanding, taking into account the cards their life dealt them and what they decided to do with them. Especially considering Cressida’s storyline, a foil to Penelope’s, it was necessary to show Cressida’s softer side in part 1 to show she has been hardened by the need to survive. I don’t support her actions but I understand her needs. I say the same with Penelope, she had to do what she needed to do to have her needs met. They are not intrinsically bad people, they are people looking for an escape from their current reality.
This isn’t the first time pen used lady whistledown to help ppl. When lord berbrook was after Daphne she putted the fact he had a child with his maid that he wasn’t caring for. That is how she got out of her engagement to him.
As for Colin, while her feelings were involved she also never thought he would have feelings for her. So what she did was more about saving him from being married to Marina while she was pregnant with another mans children.
For so she has actually never lied on anything she said. She only repeated in her column what was already being spoken by members of the ton.
I get Colin being angry at pen. I even get the entrapment comment but if we are going to be honest he entrapped her. She intended to marry lord Debling. Colin is the one who ruin her prospective proposal and then followed her & climbed into the carriage with her unchaperoned. If anyone had seen them they would’ve been forced to marry anyway just based on that bc he was so forward with her.
And when it came to them sleeping together. He had the option of calling off the engagement bc no one knew they had slept together. So she wouldn’t have been ruined in the face of society for being “intimate with a man”
Penelope is like the Sansa Stark of Bridgerton. She can never catch a break.
Oh my God, I totally agree hahaha
That three-person chair is called a Chaperone chair, they make sofa versions of it as well. Basically, a way to have courting couples sit close together (but not touching!) and having a place for their chaperone to sit as well, to monitor the conversation.
At the time Pen wrote what she wrote about Colin at the start of the season, which was completely true, he had not yet apologized to her for mocking her loudly in front of a whole group of men from the ton and everyone within hearing distance at a party in her own family's garden at the end of S2. If it was after Colin's apology when they were friends again and on speaking terms, then it would've definitely been better for her to talk to him in person about it. But at the time she wrote it? I get why she was furious and wanted to strike back, honestly.
And Lady Whistledown was never this vicious persona you guys seems to believe she was. Rewatch s1 and s2 bcs that aint it.
I agree with the statement that it feels like the show "needs to convince us the main couple is a good couple" and yet I also think that is consistent with how they have handled the other main couples so far. 🤷
In Season One, Daphne and Simon started off as a mere ruse, and then when things got "better" between them, he was still misleading her about his fertility and she outright r*ped him.
In Season Two, Anthony chose Kate's sister and then while preparing to marry Edwina, was actively having an emotional (bordering on physical) affair with Kate. Then Anthony swipes Kate's V-Card, the morning after which she almost dies, and he doesn't even visit her during her convalescence.
This show has a nasty (and yet highly entertaining) way of waiting until the finale to "Smooth things over".
But it also treats these love stories as rocky (and yes, sometimes toxic) beginnings to lasting, lifelong, loving relationships.
The overarching message seems to be...
If you marry for love, that love can overcome anything.
And while that may not be true in EVERY case...I will say that as someone coming up on 20 years with my own spouse this August, it's certainly true in some cases.
I think it's refreshing that rather than a lot of romance stories which have "happy endings" this show challenges the concept of a happy ending by showing us that finding love isn't about everything falling into place and just being easy. Rather, it's about choosing someone and then honouring that choice day in and day out until (hopefully) death do you part, like in Violet's case.
The ending isn't the happy part, the joy comes from a life well lived. ❤️🙏❤️
I can see your point, however, I feel that Colin doesn't truly believed she trapped him and in fact feels like he trapped her. Later in episode 5 at the engagement ball when she starts panicking he makes a comment that if she is starting to feel differently and only said yes to be engaged due to being wrapped up in everything after the carriage he would understand. There was another instance I believe where again he makes a comment about releasing her from the engagement if her feelings changed and both instances of this happened after they were intimate. I think this shows that his remark later in episode 7 about only marrying because of being intimate and a man of honor isn't completely accurate. I think he still really wanted to marry her because he loves her but was still hurt and grappling with his feelings of insecurity, past trauma with actual entrapment and lack of purpose and self-worth.
The Church of England wedding vows are really something.
Penelope could not call on Colin. That was why the day after a ball they would have "at home" hours to welcome any gentlemen callers.
Plus he’s clearly been avoiding her, which is understandable, but if he wouldn’t see her then she couldn’t see him.
Surely my favorite episodes of the season ❤💒 I might understand why the way their resolution is coming about is not your preferred story. I also feel like you are pretty distracted by your estimations of the timeline.
So Penelope talks to Eloise in the park, saying that she's due to marry Colin "this week", and that he followed her "last night". So my best guess is between him finding out, confronting eloise, and then meeting to finalize plans for the wedding breakfast with the mamas, is approximately 5 days. So we assume that they lived in that happyish bubble of episode 6 for 2 weeks after the first banns were read. If that would change your opinion of their fight timeline 😊
And then of course the night before the wedding so another couple of days after that planning session, they have a fight in the street he gets wedding advice from Kate and decides to make the most of his wedding, even if they have big issues to resolve
It is silly to say Pen entrapped Colin. He is the one who broke in and stopped her from being engaged, got into her carriage unchaperoned, and initiated intimacy. He did this all within moments, Penelope had no idea what his intentions were when she let him in, she didn’t know he was in love with her. If anything Colin entrapped Penelope, after the display he made at the ball and then getting into the carriage with her unchaperoned would have been enough to ruin her.
I’m not saying she shouldn’t have been honest after the fact, I agree she should have of course, but I also understand her character. She has been pining for this person for as long as she can remember, she is technically a spinster in society’s eyes - she never thought marriage or love was going to happen to her and al of a sudden she is magically getting attention from a man she thought was far beyond her reach. It’s human to get swept up in the moment and to fear losing it. No justification, just applying some understanding to why someone may struggle.
Im starting to get the impression that you really don’t like Penelope, which is fine, but I think it’s tainting your interpretation of some of her actions.
I don’t think Colin means it at all when he says the entrapment comment, I think he says it because he knows it will hurt her and he’s hurting, but in your assessment I think you’re also forgetting that less than 24 hours before they slept together, she was prepared to accept Lord Debling’s proposal and Colin ruined that for her. In every sense of the word, he pursued her, and I understand that he didn’t know the truth, but she didn’t know he had feelings for her until they were in the carriage. It was also a whirlwind 24 hours for her, with Colin directing all of it. She barely had time to catch her breath let alone find the right way to tell him she was Whistledown. Also, Colin isn’t blameless in this, if he’d been a gentleman and not gotten into her carriage unchaperoned, not taken her unchaperoned to their new home and slept with her, they could’ve called off the engagement if that’s what he wanted. Not that I think it is, he’s still very much in love with her despite the Whistledown of it all.
Also, she didn’t write about Colin because she wanted her version of him back. She wrote about him because he was pretending to be someone he wasn’t and she was calling him out for it. Should she have said it to his face? Yes, but that the time she still wasn’t talking to him. And let’s be real, Colin isn’t actually mad about her words, he’s mad because she so accurately called him out for pretending to be a someone he wasn’t and seeing that even he was unsure who he was. Colin is insecure, he’s a third son, only really pursued to the way he is because he’s wealthy, from an inheritance from his father, and he doesn’t know his purpose. He’s lost when he comes back in season 3 and he’s pretending to be suave and charming to mask this and he’s insecure that Penelope saw right through it, but of course she did, she knows him better than anyone. He’s also hurt because part of the reason he changed when he came back is because Penelope ignored him during his travels and so to find out that she’s also the one who called him out for his change is a blow to his ego.
The vows are from that time period.. word for word.. 🙂
You would have known her name was Agatha if you watched Queen Charlotte! Please Nerdy react to Queen Charlotte because it’s so well done.
Genevieve and Penelope are sitting in a courting chair. You can find them online or possibly if you go antiquing. I would say Genevieve is more a part of the merchant class than the lower class, as someone who owns her own business.
Most brides at this time (1815, probably) did not get married in white, although some did wear white muslin. Colors were popular at this time. From the late 1790s till circa 1801, white was popular and later, after Queen Victoria wore a white wedding gown. I'm not sure when people started associating white with "purity" (so-called).
"With my body, I thee worship" is from the Book of Common Prayer. I think it's quite beautful. I'm seeing a lot of reactors who have never heard it and I'm wondering whether they just haven't seen the same movies and TV programs I have.
It's ridiculous for Kate and Anthony to take an arduous four-to-six-month sea voyage to India while she is pregnant, particularly after his experience with his mother and sister almost dying.
Thank you for especially the last part
It was already ridiculous enough that Kate & Edwina left colonial india for England in the first place
Mighty stupid of them
They had many more culturally-makes-no-sense-to-an-Indian attributes in S2
(Am an Indian in India; it took me some serious suspension of all my sense of reality to digest the S2 plotline 😂)
@@vegavnc I can't even imagine.
@@vegavnc And thank you.
I like that you understood why Colin is angry and why he would doubt her. She did lie to him, so why would he trust anything she's said? Also, her not wanting to let go of LW puts him in an incredible bad position. He has to carry this huge secret and lie to his whole family. You even understood the ENTRAPMENT line. I obviously don't think she tried to entrap him, but she did hide a major secret from him, a secret she knew could be a deal breaker for him, and had no intention to tell him (if not for Eloise), before allowing him to take all kinds of liberties. Sure, she didn't know much about sex, but she consented to something she knew was not proper, while hiding things from him.
Kudos on getting that because most people didn't.
Also, it's not that they didn't see each other for 3 weeks. In the scene with Eloise, Pen says: he discovered me LAST NIGHT. and WE ARE TO BE MARRIED THIS WEEK if he'll still have me.
So he probably didn't see her for a few days before the wedding, which means he was probably mad for like... a week or so.
From what I picked up, the timeline was: he discovers her the same week they are to be married. Then he sleeps on the sofa for two nights, and they work things out on the third night as a married couple. I'd say he was mad for a week, maybe 9 days.
If you ask me, he got over it SO FAST. Eloise was mad for months. The man is WHIPPED.
At the wedding you can see he's trying, he even looks happy a few times, and he would've probably have melted a little bit more if the Queen had showed up.
With my body I thee worship was once a standard part of the vows along with obey. There was also a part about "with all my worldly goods I thee endow."
Why does the woman always get vilified for having sex?
Colin initiated the sex, she didn’t know what sex was.
Colin entrapped her knowingly if anything.
He compromised her in the carriage knowing he would have to marry her.
Colin did all of that.
Penelope didn’t seduce or entrap him.
Everything sexual came from Colin.
Whatever he did or didn’t know was not down to Pen at that point. She never in a million years thought he’d find her even remotely attractive.
Agreed. The woman being some form of calculating seductress in regency times when women didn’t know what sex was is even more ridiculous.
Best discussion of the entrapment issue. Colin has such a trauma response to the betrayal, originating from from his experience with Marina. He loves her but had to work through it first.
13:29 this is so cute.. gamers wanting to be near each other but also pay attention to their games 😂❤
In this era it was actually almost unheard of to wear white for a weddings. When Queen Victoria did it in 1840 it was shocking, but also created a lot of liking for the idea. Associating it with purity was on no one's mind.
What I like about what Colin says here, is that he isn't asking Penelope at any point to stop writing. Not once. It's about stop writing as Lady Bridgerton.
And the reason is extremely valid. The queen has basically put a price on Lady Whistledown;s head. Even if no one in the ton figured it out, eventually the news would pass to the commoners. Eventually someone who has witnessed Penelope be the front person. Would sale that information to a Lord or Lady in a means to get coin. It would happen. Knowing that a lord or lady would get nearly half a million in current US funds. Would make you able to get a far more then what the common laborer would earn, easily.
Since the Queen is pissed, and threatening her wrath. Let's look at what she could do. Now in this fictional world we see her acting as the senior royal, technically not accurate in history but this is fiction. As the royal running things, she can stripe titles from both individuals and families. She can seize assets. If she honestly thinks the Bridgerton's are the ones. She could technically ruin, several families. From Daphne and Simon, to Anthony and Kate, to Colin and Penelope, to all the unattached members of the family. She has that power. And let's be very clear, pissed off Royals have done some really terrible things....So it's certainly possible. Even if you think its not her style its still legitimate risk.
Then could Penelope actually write? Yes. Women could publish for several years. She has both her own resources, let alone those of what Colin's share of his family estate would allow. She has connections in both printing and distribution. So yes should could write. She could have her voice be out in the public. Now she starting anew wouldn't have the reach of Bridgerton. And I certainly would recommend if tying to keep things under wraps not suddenly start a new gossip release. But Prose, short stories and full novels were published by women of this time. She could publish (don't know if she is skilled in non gossip based writing), but she would have no issue or barriers outside of her own ability in doing so. The real cost to her is losing her creation. And that is a loss. I do not diminish it.
But if you could still work in your field, but likely have less success, but those actions shielded not only you but your new extended family. Would you not even consider it?
When Patrick Stewart used that word in an interview, I had to go look it up in a dictionary.
White wedding dresses have been a thing for many hundreds of years. Of course, it was not always possible as pure white fibers were hard to come by, and bleaching techniques were not there yet. White did symbolize purity for some cultures, in others it was a protective color to ward away evil spirits and curses from the bride...and in others, it was simply a status symbol because of how difficult it was to produce.
Not until 1840...when Queen Victoria got married in her white dress did it become "Conventional". Because, as throughout all of history....the public followed along with the royals and everything that they did. And they had a much easier time getting pure white fibers.
Thank you for acknowledging Colin's feelings, all i've heard online is he doesn't deserve her and he spent too much time being mad at her. He had every right!
I honestly do not like how Eloise treated Cresida. Definitely Cresida is a bad character, but Eloise did not help or show empathy to her situation at all. Eloise knew exactly why Cresida declared herself LW and she also knew that she lied and why. Eloise could ask her mother and lady Danbury to help her find another husband (or something like this), but she did nothing, and was concerned only about Pen and Colin. Not a good friend.
I agree with you that Eloise is a bad friend to Cressida, and wasn’t always a great friend to Penelope, because she’s very self involved, but because of that, I’m not sure she actually knows why Cressida confessed to being lady Whistledown. She likely wasn’t paying attention when everyone was talking about how LW could come forward and claim the reward and wouldn’t need to marry, so she didn’t follow Cressida’s logic and probably thinks Cressida did it for attention. Eloise also has to play along that she thinks Cressida is LW, even to Cressida, because she can’t admit that she knows who the real LW is. Outwardly it therefore makes sense that she’d rebuff Cressida. If Cressida had told her outside the church that she lied and wasn’t LW and was trying to get out of the marriage, Eloise maybe would’ve helped her, but she has to pretend to think that Cressida is LW to protect Penelope, and Eloise is mad about what LW wrote about her.
Also, Eloise wouldn’t have been able to help Cressida avoid the marriage to Lord Greer. She’s like 19-20 years old, and a woman, there’s nothing she can do, unless they found out gossip about Greer similar to Berbrooke that they could publish in Whistledown to take Greer out. Before LW took out Berbrooke, Daphne and Violet had both accepted that Daphne would’ve needed to marry him. Violet was powerless to help her own daughter, she definitely couldn’t have helped Cressida.
I do think Penelope should have told Colin before they had sex, and when he took her to the house was a good opportunity. And she should have told him before announcing the engagement through Whistledown. Eloise was still pressing for it at that point, and it's all the delaying that gave her the opportunity to have cold feet too. I agree that the season is geared more towards Penelope than Colin, and it should be about both of them.
Im sorry but Colin wasnt entitled to know about lady whistledown. It was penelopes secret to keep, a dangerous secret that she cant afford to get out. Colin has always been a bit flighty and unreliable.
Plus why would she tell anyone before? It’d have put him at risk. Had her and Colin courted and she didn’t tell him then yes, but suggesting she should be told him as her friend is crazy and they went from friends to engaged within hours because of Colin!
I think Pen should have cancelled (or at least postponed) the wedding herself after Colin told about entrapment. The rest of the season in this case could be the same though, just the wedding at the end. This way it would have been much more logical for the characters.
I also do not understand why they did not have any decent conversation after Colin found she is LW? Definitely Pen wanted to explain herself. She could at least write a letter to him.
Sorry, he’s totally wrong here on entrapment. Saying she entrapped Colin is ridiculous. She didn’t lie to him before he initiated everything. He ruined her proposal, he ruined her in the carriage, he proposed and took her straight to his family with no pause, then sleeps with her the next day. She didn’t tell anyone before that about LW and why would she tell him? She’d endanger her friend and she had zero thought he cared for her or would ever care for her. If you say she should’ve told him between the proposal and him finding out, then sure. I agree. But no way in any way of looking at it pen entrapped Colin. Also 3 weeks hasn’t passed. We hear at the start of ep7 that they are getting married that week, so they’ve clearly seen each other and he found out within the same week of the marriage. As for Colin changing, she was reminding him that he was putting on a facade. He hasn’t changed, he was pretending to please society and he didn’t like it and she knew it and so did he and Eloise who didn’t think she’d said anything bad that season. Her saying she loved him was vital to Colin. He spent 5 doubtful she loved him and then after finding the truth he doubted it was real. Her reinforcing that she loves him is her declaring it clearly and he can see she means it, that it’s real.
Wow, i thought you were wearing a wedding dress for second Claroos 😅
:Let's be very clear here, first we don't see every line of gossip published, but Penelope's column has been both truthful at times and hurtful at time. When she outs Marina, she did place scandal on both her house and the Bridgerton's.
She had every means to end the engagement at any time. Simply grab an escort and walk across the square and speak to whatever head of the house is currently there (be it at the time Violent or Anthony). Doing that would force them to restrict Colins movements, and end the engagement. But doing so in a way that didn't same both the Featherington household or the Bridgerton household, or paint Colin publicly as a fool, and cause the utter ruin of Marina (that would have happened eventually). But it was Daphne that stopped the shaming of the families (it based on gender bias would always be more on the Featherington's). And it was Daphne that provided the means to get marina a stable and respectful marriage (even if it wasn't what she would have wanted). But Colin's foolishness would remain a known thing.
And yes Violet spreading the rumor truth about Burbrook helped Daphne. But understand this. Penelope had no knowledge on if this was accurate information. Meaning she took unverified gossip and spread it. Do you honestly think every bit of gossip spread was accurate? Seriously. And of course the fact that Pence;lpe spread the gossip that no one was going to court Daphne is what lead Burbrook to even consider courting her.
So when we hear from characters that her writing this season has been fairer take them at their word that material we don't see (which would be the bulk of every issue) isn't quite so kind and fair.
I completely agree that Pen's excuses for writing about Colin were a bit gross. She was lashing out at him because she was angry, hurt and jealous, but as you said, that is the sort of conversation that should be kept between the two of them. The conversation they did have about it was great, but also soured by her initial response. She wants him the way she wants him, and didn't like that he changed, yet she's never once bothered to ask him why. Him believing that she lacks respect for him is completely understandable. I know she's a gossip, and a fundamental lack of consideration for other people's feelings and privacy is a given, but he was her friend for a long time. He always protected her, and saw her when nobody else did. What happened in 2x08 sucks, but one incident shouldn't negate all those years. Besides, Pen's intentional, pre-meditated, public attack on him was much worse than Colin's one-off, spur-of-the-moment comment to a limited number of people. All their conversations in S3 have been primarily focussed on her, largely because she let him believe he needed to earn back her friendship, when she'd already gotten her petty revenge. Her crush on him may have been one-sided in the first two seasons, but their friendship never was, until this season. Whether it's because the writers listened to all that toxic, entitled nonsense people kept saying about wanting to see Colin grovel, which is really gross, or for some other reason, that does not make for a healthy dynamic. I mean, she wanted him so badly for so long, but now that she has his love, she cares more about her ego? She'd really choose trashy gossip over the life she could have with him? Really?! Also, you were spot on about Eloise and Colin loyally keeping Pen's secrets, no matter how hurt and angry they were about them. Which is kind of ironic, since Penelope herself has little respect for anyone else's secrets.
Thank you, God people act like Colin shouldn't feel some type of way
What happened in 2x08 sucks, only sucks? Colin know that by saying that in front of public, in front of those friends so called gentleman, even worse at her own family’s Featherington ball, would absolutely ruined her prospects in marriage even further. Colin is the only friend she has, beside Eloise. Yet he said those words for what? To get along with his fake friend.
Remember this, Pen did not write a single bad thing about Colin in LW before he also publicly humiliated her in front of his friend. Both Colin and Pen did mistakes on being careless about commenting each other publicly. Pen has given up on pursuing Colin too, so she distanced herself from him. Colin himself did acknowledged his facade changed personality, it's not only him Eloise also recognise he's not himself. Pen was not the only one who recognize that or try to get the personality that she loves back. It is a good thing in the end Colin being himself again and become a great writer, all by Pen's encouragement.
Gross? It’s Colin’s choice to approach Pen, offering her to help find husband. Did Pen ask that from him or forced him to help her? No. Because Colin himself know after saying Pen is special to him, then afterwards saying those hurtful words to his friends laughing was damaging publicly because ‘he wasn’t the man he supposed to be last year’ quoted in ep 1. If he think Pen shouldn’t be offended, he would not apologize and search for her.
She cares more about her ego? In the episode 2x07 or 2x08 , Pen also was ready to give up being whistledown for Eloise, she burned her quills and all. Choose trashy gossip over life with Colin?. Did you watch ep 3x06?. She decided to quit and told Gen, even though LW is part of her, her voice. She’s given up being LW to be with her love match Colin, until Eloise was panicking again cause Cressida impersonating LW would harm Bridgerton. So Pen decided to publish one last time to reveal Cressida lies. Colin found out. She didn’t write any Whistledown afterwards. She respected Colin. She even offer annulments in their marriage, so she couldn’t harm him or his family. In the end, Colin also respected and accepted Pen as LW, cause they are one voice. He admitted he was envious of her life work. They both accepted each other, flaws and all, and already forgiven the mistakes in the past and be happy. Pen would not hide behind LW anymore, will write in her own name, just like Colin write published journal in his own name.
Lady Whistledown is a self-published author (not that there's anything wrong with that), which Colin has the money to be as well.
I don't get it. What's funny about the name Agatha?
*WandaVision Spoiler* Agatha is the witch pulling the strings in that show and Lady Danbury is piulling the strings here
@@NerdyNightly Ah.
I feel like I'm in the minority here but I still have a lot of empathy for Cressida. She has literally nobody. Pen still has Eloise indirectly looking out for her (covertly asking Colin how she's doing, encouraging him to still be friends with her, etc.) while Cressida has one "true" friend who literally does not give a shit about her problems and abandons her. The lashing out at the Bridgertons comes from hurt, I think. It's not okay but she's in a terrible situation. Either she was being married off to this controlling old man or sent off to live in the country with an aunt and literally nobody in her home or life gives a shit about her so she just wants the same thing Pen always wanted as well: financial independence and literally one person who truly gives a shit about her. Ironic that they both latched on to Eloise for that.