If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won’t), a lot of the generation before us thought the same thing about our comics. I will hit the 45 year collecting mark in a few months and I had a shop in the 80s/90s. I’m not thrilled with the current status of comics but I also have to admit that it’s not unique to see changes push away a generation of readers (as I saw it happen in the 90s).
@@Eyrrll I actually managed a store in the 80s that was Diamond/Capital's largest account in Florida. I understand what you are saying but what is currently happening is a completely different thing than what happened back then. In the 80s/90s while there was a lot of change there was also a lot of talented people artists and writers. Now there is more talent on the fanfic sites than at the actual companies.
@@O_G_HELLBOY There were some good books then, sure… but not nearly as much as people tend to remember. For every good book selling on my shelves, there were a dozen or more completely forgettable books (many of which were actually downright bad). The bad stuff sold better than today but it was still bad. In the end, most people remember a pool of about 50-75 truly great titles during the 90s era… but there were thousands that they do not remember! There was, by default, an immense amount of trash in there. The biggest difference that I see between then and now is the loss of a new generation of readers. The people who grew up reading comics produced in the 60s largely considered the books of the 90s as abominations of “grim and gritty” violence that ruined what was fun about comics. But for every one of them that I had coming in to the shop, there were dozens of young readers that absolutely loved the grim and gritty era. So ultimately, my old customers were “outvoted” at the cash register (but I still sold them back issues). We don’t have that young audience now, so what we have left is a bunch of grumpy old timers waxing nostalgic (and I include myself among them).
I just watched an interview of the late legend John Romita Sr. today that was saying the exact same thing. He was touching on his eight year stint at DC. He said the editors there would pin-up Marvel comics and huddle around to discuss how Marvel could be outselling them. Apparently their excuse was that the more rudimentary artwork and print of Marvel made it more relatable to kids. But then he (Romita Sr.) laughs and said it was no secret why Marvel started to surpass DC. It was Stan Lee’s engagement with the fanbase.
This isn't a case of an industry dying because its time has passed. At least with superhero comics, this is a case of an industry that decided to radically change its product, to insult and drive off its customer base, and to refuse to change course when that approach failed. It's self-inflicted.
I honestly can't feel bad about people not making money from comics. I used to spend hundreds on comics, but they stopped producing stuff I wanted to read. Then they TOLD me not to buy their stuff. It's like a drug addict that refuses to accept they have a problem, nothing will get better until they acknowledge reality.
I agree, even Batman is being deconstructed and constantly has to be humiliated for being an evil heterosexual and privileged white man, I am convinced that the Batman writers hate him and want to replace him with some LGBT+ character associated with the bat family, the one who Making Tim Drake bisexual certainly doesn't help, his own collection is a set of homoerotic pamphlets, when I buy a Batman comic I expect adventure, conflict, the classic fight of good versus evil, plot twists and cunning and badass antagonists... and instead it's all propaganda written by non-binary young people or transsexuals with purple hair.
Now this is just me. I started a comic book club in town with good friend back in the 90s. We wrote to Valiant, We wrote to Ultracomics and Marvel. They would write us back and send us comics to hand out at our meetings. Ultracomics sent us hologram covers to send out. I got a letter published in Deathlok. Today there’s no customer contact. The companies don’t listen to people who buy their books. There’s no letter pages. When I was growing up, that’s what I enjoyed more than reading the title was reading the fan mail and how they reached out to customers. Even though I’m in my 60s, I feel such a disconnect between companies and their customers. I feel less and less interest in picking up titles…I still like the art form, just feeling like the companies are pushing me away.
There is black and white magazine called Vampiress Carmilla that is like the old warren magazines that have letters pages the whole book is like a time capusale from the 60's. It's sold at Barnes and noble and it called A WARRANT MAGAZINE. plus Shudder. They pay attention to their readers (or gouls, yes they have puns) I hope this will help.
They didn’t understand that “easier to tell stories” is essentially the same as increasing the volume of background noise & wondering why nobody can hear the music anymore. And then they get shocked when people just turn off the radio because they can’t hear the music over the static. That’s exactly what the comic Business did to itself. They made it easier to produce crap so it’s more difficult to find gems and get confused when people stop making the effort to even find a gem
Wes, I love it when you give such a passionate take on the comics industry. I can feel how much you care about this storytelling medium. It is a pity, a number of current comic creators do not seem to care at all. We need more people like you and Zack who actually love this medium and want it to succeed.
So they are shock now the industry is a massive mess. Not when Demon Slayer almost out sold their whole industry? Not after all the stuff they did to drive away their paying readership, making the industry much smaller than it used to be? Not when there were massive issues with payment to artists? Anyone who been following this even slightly, would of seen this coming. Who was not trying to perform mental hoops to avoid the reality right in front of them. Maybe they could of avoided this if they stopped acting like high school teenagers and acted like the professional they are meant to be.
Absolutely zero sympathy for these idiots. Every time we try to help them we got nothing but abuse in return. This is the end results of years and years of them being horrible people.
Gee, the industry is learning that pissing on your fan base is a BAD idea! Comics, books, and movies are supported by fans. Sure, they get money from ads and product placement but it's the fans that drive the machine. Wolverine and Spider-Man carried 4 or more books each at their peak. It was good writing, good art, and an engaged fan base. Now, the creators are refusing to accept responsibility for their failings.
Mags is listed as a writer in Action Comics. What has that person ever done critically or fiscally to earn a spot on that classic book? This is just another symptom of this dying industry.
I hope The Rippaverse Gets Big enough to launch successful imitators to truly change Comics. It's adapt or Die. And we all know How Social Justice Feels about certain choice Technological Advancements lately.
I've taken about a year and half off from comics, Mags is still there or a thing? Jesus. These people will hit the iceberg instead of steering away from it.
I actually saw that Max Bemis Conan-related story ("Belit and Valeria") on a bookstore shelf. Despite Bemis' name on the cover, I flipped through it. And I saw cannons. Gun-powder based fire-arms....in a Conan the Barbarian story. The willful ignorance it must take to publish something like that is mind-blowing. If that book is any indication of comic-quality in general, then the only surprising thing is that the industry hasn't already collapsed.
It’s really hard to feel sympathetic to these ideological idiots for feeling this way. Was rooting out folks you disagreed with that much more important than producing work that the general audience would like? Seriously how many times do we all need to say it: the industry is suffering from bad writers and agenda pushing in a big way. And these folks are now howling over his bad things were? Not realizing they’ve lost countless customers because they didn’t want them and younger folks are going to manga and other things. And finally while I know some folks dislike comicsgate; they have succeeded because they value their customers. You may not like some personalities individually but their message of respecting the customer should be ingrained. But I doubt these folks want this truth. They just want a scapegoat to blame their own problems at. To that, all I say is karma. You earned this predicament. Live with it.
Comicsgate is pretty impressive. They can sell 4 dollar comics for 30 dollars each, just because the customers know they care and they are unable to offer 4 dollar options due to harassment from the comic pros. Meanwhile the horrible comic pros can't even sell 4 dollar comics, because the content is horrible and they are toxic people.
I don't even look at the mainstream comics companies anymore. Do what I did, look to Indies & Manga. DC = Dying Company; Marvel = One Marvels at how they're still in business.
CG doesn't sell thrown together 20-page pamphlets on toilet paper. They usually publish 64+ page graphic novels that have time and care put into them and actually tell stories with pure expertise with each outing. DC and Marvel put out monthly bowel movements in hopes their variant covers will save them.@@linusgustafsson2629
Problem has been their zealotry. As in they believe so hard in their religion of inclusion and diversity, that they think everyone else also believe in it, or are horrible people. Which means there is zero chance of failing when you do diversity comics, unless everyone else is a horrible person. Which is unlikely, so they get really confused when they realize that in fact the proof is that everyone is a horrible person. (Or rather their religion is based on wrong facts).
“You can’t reach new people.” The problem is the people they’re trying to reach aren’t the people who read comic books. Eric July gave them a set of promises that genuine comic book fans would appreciate before he even made the comic. He’s not Ibram X Kendi, who only writes comics because he wants to subvert the expectations and change the culture.
Dear Wes I’ve been watching your videos for a good while now they have been very inspiring to me, this is my first comment on the channel not gonna lie, I’m commenting now cause I think your absolutely right, so I wanna tell you that I myself have been making my own comic with completely new characters and a story I came up with and recently posted it on webtoon and tapas about a week ago, it’s just a prologue and chapter 1 right now but plan to make more upcoming chapters and eventually make a physical copy and have it in stores
The comic book industry itself is a mess and is probably a lot more complicated mess in order to fix its mistakes which unfortnately this industry in itself just wants to blow itself up which is the last thing I want to happen at least in my opinion.
It's a sad case because something allot of people tend to ignore is that even without the politics allot of these books are just so bad and the business models are also bad. To the people reading do not forget to spread awareness for good indie creators and upcoming talent. It seems comicbooks are really a thing of the past time to move forward
I just cannot understand why american comic book creators just don't can learn with the mangakas of the Japan.They understand the needs of your audience and are supportive with them.Mangas are able to succeed in the areas where modern comic book fails. Mangas storylines are more compelling that any modern DC and Marvel books in nowadays and the artwork has a cinematic style in many titles. Mangas rules today.
I continue to support more of the well known classic comic book creators. It doesn't bother me if these are only limited series. There is just a handful of new comic book creators that I will actually support. I have enthusiastically supported both Eric July and Ethan Van Sciver's independently published comic book series.
I feel your frustration, Wes. It seems that everything we grew up lobing, and spending copious amounts of time, energy, and money on, has been sabotaged by these wokoso strokewads. Comics, Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR, games, etc. It is, quite feankly, exceedingly tiresome.
It isn't the "woke" that are fucking this up. It's CORPORATIONS. This is hyper capitalism at work. Rather than make a product that caters to the audience that made your company, you make content for the lowest common denominator, in an attempt to appeal to everyone. THAT'S when the "woke" shit comes in. It's all about being able to sell as many units as possible. The people in charge don't care about the legacy; they only care about padding their bank account. The "woke" issue wouldn't be an issue at all if these companies figured out how to not butcher decades of history. I've got no problem with a character being gay or trans for example; but I DO CARE when they just up and make a character that has existed since I was a kid. They do this with EVERYTHING now, and that's the biggest issue, becuase it's all about trying to appeal to everyone and then it appeals to no one.
I have some good news on the comics front: recently picked up some Essential Marvel books and now have a complete run of Tomb of Dracula. It has dawned on me there's a whole bunch of comics I didn't get or read from the last six decades and I'm focusing on those. As for the future of comics, there's always Kid Venom. No seriously. Kid Venom. Let me get back to the blood sucking monster I want to read. Cheers!
Wes, you’re absolutely right and I agree with you 100%. There’s an old saying that says you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. These individuals who make the comic books have let the wolf in the door and now they can’t get rid of him. It’s like what I call the bud light syndrome. We can’t be failing because we’re number one and because we’re number one it doesn’t matter what we say or do they’ll still come to us. Well they’re finding out the hard way. They’re on the road to failure.
What they did to the industry is just, for lack of a better term, disgusting. I grew up on comics, and now, after nearly 4 decades, I couldn't be less excited, when something is announced. Left and right, heroes "deconstructed", given unlikeable, thinly veiled self inserts as sidekicks or replacements, this idea that gay is a compelling personality trait, or a qualification to being a hero, the complete focus of the writers' lives, struggles and insecurities, instead of telling good stories about characters we love, and showcasing why others should, in fact telling us why we should hate them, these are things they repeatedly did, and they wonder why we refuse to read any of it. It isn't out of any istaphobism. The books simply aren't fun to read, anymore, and these idiots made them that way, despite everyone showing them why it's wrong. I exclusively read back issues, now. The most recent book I read was a Batman monthly, published in 1988. These books are WAY more fun, even having read them before. There was nothing "outdated" or offensive in this particular story. A man with a corrosive touch roaming Gotham, on a revenge mission, and a radio dj crashes his car, while high on coke. Batman is doing his best to sort it out. 1,000,000 times better than watching aged up Jon Kent protesting, or Fire and Ice bopping around Smallville and meeting the new, sassy sidekick.
I've gone back and started reading X-Men from the beginning and im having a blast, sure theres the cheesy old school dialogue but they're entertaining.
09:30 the real issue is that NOBODY really likes their standard. Whatever audience they could have, it would be indie among indies. That's ehy they depend on big publishers losing money for them.
The problem we have is a problem of talent, unfortunately every one of the mainstream comics pros just have no talent. They were handed the jobs and have no business sense and are just untalented. So when they fail it’s not their fault, it’s the fans.
I considered trying to submit a pitch to dc about a non-canon reboot of the charleton heroes. When a major problem hit me. Wes how do you submit a pitch to the comics industry?
@@changvasejarik62 zelensky came over to beg for money in canada. He brought a 98 year old world war 2 veteran with him. He fought with the SS against the russians and they used that as an attempt to try and fundraise. Really shows how braindead politicians are and if you say you are anti russia, you'll get everything.
@@changvasejarik62Quick summary: President of Ukraine visited Canada. Speaker of Parliament invited a "World War II veteran" assuming he was a war hero. He turned out to be a German collaborator. Speaker resigned.
I love and read all kinds of comics in all different genres from all different countries. I have done so since 1974. I think the big American comics problem is Cost. Everything is moving towards at least $4.99 for a 15 minute read of a chapter of a story. For that price, editors need to pull together teams that make EVERY issue a Fantastic read, not just okay. Companies need to look at every issue they put out and if they are not personally thrilled with it, or their test audience isn't, then the book shouldn't come out. World's Finest delivers every month and I can't wait for the next issue. Love That Texas Blood and it's current Enfield Massacre mini series. Captain America now seems to have a great setup so it is back on my pull list. And WOW! Just started in on The Magic Order trades. Great stuff! Comics are no longer new stand periodicals that must come out on a rigid schedule, forcing you to sometimes fill issues with reprints, inventory stories or just a weak next chapter. Editors, hold off and just put out the Great comics that are worth the $5. That's how you save and grow the industry.
Yup, those PPP loans they used to pay non-profitable producers dried up. The government provided free money is gone for them. Once again, sales matter.
I'll say this, these heads and the lions share of people working under them who fallow this new way of life all but poison every industry they touch. And comics are no exception. The only solution at this point is to fire them all and hire back people who have a passion for telling good quality stories again. Until such a time take care and happy ready those back issues.
It has to collapse in order for it to be rebuilt. The cancerous parts have to be removed. And I’m not without some sympathy. It’s unfortunate for people to be evicted from their homes. But, this is one of those instances where it could have been avoided if the people were aware enough that they were drilling holes into their own ships. I recently had to do some wood repairs to my deck. Last year I discovered a small amount or rot in a piece of 16’ decking. I thought I could save the piece by removing the rotted section, treating and then patching the area with all weather filler. I thought I could save it. Fast forward less than a year later the filler didn’t work. The rot was too deep. So I had to amputate and replace the board. The comic book industry is a the point where the rot is too deep, and it’s time to amputate the dead wood.
Its too late The industry has bee destroyed by pride Litterally They have too much pride to admit they are wrong and the end result is that characters like eric july and ya boi zack among others entered the space they left wide open
But… They keep telling us that comic sales are hitting record highs and everything is sunshine and roses. 🤣 I absolutely hate what these untalented wastes of human flesh have done to the industry, but I’m definitely enjoying the schadenfreude. 😇
Look up various video reviews of the comic. I think it was another super g@y trash comic that Maggs or another member of the alphabet crowd got published.
Yeah I get hit up all the time because I consult other comic book creators on marketing and selling their work. It tell them it's work but you get the fruits of haveing your work supported when you reach out and engage with what will be your audience. However when working with ComicBook Publishers there is always some issue and they are all dumb issue. They want people coming to them but don't do anything to build trust with an audience they keep disappointing.
They are struggling because they keep trying to force their garbage stories on the fandom when we don't want their vanity pieces. We want great action, character development, drama, and in my case at least, respect of the previously established canon.
2:53 that boom was the result of people fiending for stories after Geppi decided he didn’t feel like distributing comics anymore. Once everything opened back up we had many an indie title that were just trying to be good stories get the shine they deserved. The uppity cape readers finally broke out of their safety bubble and tried a comic without the X-Men or Supes. There is representation in SiKtC but it was not the only thing the comic talked about. It focused on being a solid horror story and the readers paid the title back by telling all their friends, forcing that thing into over 8 printings.
I know Perch is not convinced, but I still believe publishers are too distracted by the TPB buys by libraries in North America. It's a 'customer base' that is separate from the customer base, but it is a solid number versus the comic shop estimates. 😮
That's a sector that's not going to last either, nobody I know has been to a library in years. Once financial cuts start to happen, libraries will stop buying and there goes that market too.
I'm with many others here and don't feel bad at all that these jerks may be without a home but what did they expect? Wasn't anyone at Marvel or DC not looking at the numbers or anything, and think that different direction is needed? Didn't anyone thought about sending out memo telling all their writers/artists to not insult their customers? Or instead of finding that elusive new audience, keep the old one happy? Make good stories and good art will appeal to everyone, not just elusive "new" audience. But instead of running company, they let their writers and artists live in fantasy land and write/draw whatever they want.
I've been reading for near 20 years. My pull list has been cancelled for 5 years. It came back for HoXPoX - then died. I don't wanto read stories about the letters crowd, I want superhero books! My list is re opened. For 1 book. Transformers by DJW.
Man i can't believe the spin off comic about the character that most people don't like from a show thats already showing its age wasnt enough to make this the year of Mags Hope they didnt run out and buy another guitar with the oni cash advance 🤣
I used to be a Thor mark or Whale. I can not tolerate or stand AL Ewing. That being said, I have yet to spend any money on Thor thus far because of Ewing. After Ole AL turned Starlord Bisexual, I signed a blood oath to never ever spend a penny on anything with AL Ewing on the book. I will not buy Thor until he is off the title. Idc if ALEX ROSS is on Cover As or not.
Why should anyone support these people and these companies, given the price of monthly comics? I see folks like Mark T. Sneed publishing stories on Amazon about how things might be with more superpowered Black characters. (Remember those days when the diversity was tailored to the story?) Saw him at a recent con, and he's decent guy who likes comic books and readers.
Got sick of turning the page and finding out I'm actually the villain of this comic book. The major problems and the same problems in the shows and movies by basically every company. Each industry also has their specific issues but it's wokeness and what comes with that
I buy the classics mostly in OMNIBUS form or hardcover printings from DC, Marvel and others. The new tittles from mainstream giants are mostly bad or boring and by adding so much propaganda where the story dies or was never there makes it pointless to even read the first page. People want good art, stories and a run away from reality. I recommend European tittles old and new from such countries like Belgium, France, Italy or Spain. Those that cover science-fiction, fantasy and/or humour would suprise you.
Instead of spending their time trying to tear down each other down they should have been trying to keep their industry going. But they buried their heads in the sand and doubled down on their bad behaviors. You reap what you sow.
I think this same fallout is going to happen to Disney soon due to their own decisions. Flooding their staffs with inexperienced agenda driven writers who have no care or interest in writing good stories has damaged both films and comics. The trust toward publishers and film companies to at least be entertaining is gone. The most important thing about storytelling is to entertain to be engaging, then educate. It's not to lecture and drone, nor tear down the past. As much as people go on about the 50's being a better time, for people of my minority, well we were segregated. So not that good or fair, or as open to us and many others. Telling a badly created story with some representation damages the cause. If anything it brings out more resentment and dislike of those stories, and who those stories are trying to represent. If anything it's just plain lazy. The industry needs to realize they need quality work to attract readers and viewers. Many thanks Wes.
I don't know what minortiy you are but in all likely hood what happned in the 50s could of been for the best. No hate but things was better back than. just saying. if we could have acoided what happened to comics by doing what wer were doing in the 50s, which was a golden time for comics as compared to today maybe we should have kept things the way they where. dont get mad at me
I've been reading and collecting for 45 years. Watching what these people have done to my hobby is breaking my heart.
If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won’t), a lot of the generation before us thought the same thing about our comics.
I will hit the 45 year collecting mark in a few months and I had a shop in the 80s/90s. I’m not thrilled with the current status of comics but I also have to admit that it’s not unique to see changes push away a generation of readers (as I saw it happen in the 90s).
@@Eyrrll I actually managed a store in the 80s that was Diamond/Capital's largest account in Florida. I understand what you are saying but what is currently happening is a completely different thing than what happened back then. In the 80s/90s while there was a lot of change there was also a lot of talented people artists and writers. Now there is more talent on the fanfic sites than at the actual companies.
hear you buddy 🍺
You’re not the audience the industry doesn’t want anymore. They spent years saying that to the ones who kept them afloat and now here we are.
@@O_G_HELLBOY There were some good books then, sure… but not nearly as much as people tend to remember. For every good book selling on my shelves, there were a dozen or more completely forgettable books (many of which were actually downright bad). The bad stuff sold better than today but it was still bad. In the end, most people remember a pool of about 50-75 truly great titles during the 90s era… but there were thousands that they do not remember! There was, by default, an immense amount of trash in there.
The biggest difference that I see between then and now is the loss of a new generation of readers. The people who grew up reading comics produced in the 60s largely considered the books of the 90s as abominations of “grim and gritty” violence that ruined what was fun about comics. But for every one of them that I had coming in to the shop, there were dozens of young readers that absolutely loved the grim and gritty era. So ultimately, my old customers were “outvoted” at the cash register (but I still sold them back issues).
We don’t have that young audience now, so what we have left is a bunch of grumpy old timers waxing nostalgic (and I include myself among them).
Remember when they said they didn't sell to the customer?
Remember when they said, "Don't like my politics. Don't buy my book!"?
I do.
Remember when they made Tim Drake bi and his book got canceled after only 13 issues? 😂😂😂😂
@@Mr_E_Nigma Ah yes, a "Bisexual" who dumbs his GF for some boy he just met, and became more feminine as it went.
I just watched an interview of the late legend John Romita Sr. today that was saying the exact same thing. He was touching on his eight year stint at DC. He said the editors there would pin-up Marvel comics and huddle around to discuss how Marvel could be outselling them. Apparently their excuse was that the more rudimentary artwork and print of Marvel made it more relatable to kids. But then he (Romita Sr.) laughs and said it was no secret why Marvel started to surpass DC. It was Stan Lee’s engagement with the fanbase.
This isn't a case of an industry dying because its time has passed. At least with superhero comics, this is a case of an industry that decided to radically change its product, to insult and drive off its customer base, and to refuse to change course when that approach failed. It's self-inflicted.
"You get what you fucking deserve."
I honestly can't feel bad about people not making money from comics. I used to spend hundreds on comics, but they stopped producing stuff I wanted to read. Then they TOLD me not to buy their stuff. It's like a drug addict that refuses to accept they have a problem, nothing will get better until they acknowledge reality.
I was an avid comic reader in 2021...in 2023 i barely read any comics..even Batman comics are unreadable.. I love MANGA.
same and i am/was a dc kid for 50+yrs.
I try to get into the comics in the early 00s but I couldn’t get into them and I didn’t know where to start
I agree, even Batman is being deconstructed and constantly has to be humiliated for being an evil heterosexual and privileged white man, I am convinced that the Batman writers hate him and want to replace him with some LGBT+ character associated with the bat family, the one who Making Tim Drake bisexual certainly doesn't help, his own collection is a set of homoerotic pamphlets, when I buy a Batman comic I expect adventure, conflict, the classic fight of good versus evil, plot twists and cunning and badass antagonists... and instead it's all propaganda written by non-binary young people or transsexuals with purple hair.
It's not long before shoujo manga (aimed at young girls)sells more than western comics
Shouldn't be hard. Half the shoujo manga is good enough that even boys appreciate it (Sailor Moon for example).
@@linusgustafsson2629nope. No boys read that.
I pretty much only read old comics now. At least they were printed on stuff that actually feels like paper.
Me, too. Millarworld has been good, though.
Now this is just me. I started a comic book club in town with good friend back in the 90s. We wrote to Valiant, We wrote to Ultracomics and Marvel. They would write us back and send us comics to hand out at our meetings. Ultracomics sent us hologram covers to send out. I got a letter published in Deathlok. Today there’s no customer contact. The companies don’t listen to people who buy their books. There’s no letter pages. When I was growing up, that’s what I enjoyed more than reading the title was reading the fan mail and how they reached out to customers. Even though I’m in my 60s, I feel such a disconnect between companies and their customers. I feel less and less interest in picking up titles…I still like the art form, just feeling like the companies are pushing me away.
The 4 Spawn titles still have the Spawning Ground, they alternate with fan art from around the internet and letters from customers!
There is black and white magazine called Vampiress Carmilla that is like the old warren magazines that have letters pages the whole book is like a time capusale from the 60's.
It's sold at Barnes and noble and it called A WARRANT MAGAZINE.
plus Shudder.
They pay attention to their readers (or gouls, yes they have puns)
I hope this will help.
They didn’t understand that “easier to tell stories” is essentially the same as increasing the volume of background noise & wondering why nobody can hear the music anymore. And then they get shocked when people just turn off the radio because they can’t hear the music over the static. That’s exactly what the comic Business did to itself. They made it easier to produce crap so it’s more difficult to find gems and get confused when people stop making the effort to even find a gem
Wes, I love it when you give such a passionate take on the comics industry. I can feel how much you care about this storytelling medium. It is a pity, a number of current comic creators do not seem to care at all. We need more people like you and Zack who actually love this medium and want it to succeed.
So they are shock now the industry is a massive mess. Not when Demon Slayer almost out sold their whole industry? Not after all the stuff they did to drive away their paying readership, making the industry much smaller than it used to be? Not when there were massive issues with payment to artists? Anyone who been following this even slightly, would of seen this coming. Who was not trying to perform mental hoops to avoid the reality right in front of them. Maybe they could of avoided this if they stopped acting like high school teenagers and acted like the professional they are meant to be.
Absolutely zero sympathy for these idiots. Every time we try to help them we got nothing but abuse in return. This is the end results of years and years of them being horrible people.
Gee, the industry is learning that pissing on your fan base is a BAD idea! Comics, books, and movies are supported by fans. Sure, they get money from ads and product placement but it's the fans that drive the machine. Wolverine and Spider-Man carried 4 or more books each at their peak. It was good writing, good art, and an engaged fan base. Now, the creators are refusing to accept responsibility for their failings.
No responsibility, no power
"If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it."
Mags is listed as a writer in Action Comics. What has that person ever done critically or fiscally to earn a spot on that classic book? This is just another symptom of this dying industry.
I hope The Rippaverse Gets Big enough to launch successful imitators to truly change Comics.
It's adapt or Die. And we all know How Social Justice Feels about certain choice Technological Advancements lately.
I've taken about a year and half off from comics, Mags is still there or a thing? Jesus. These people will hit the iceberg instead of steering away from it.
I actually saw that Max Bemis Conan-related story ("Belit and Valeria") on a bookstore shelf. Despite Bemis' name on the cover, I flipped through it. And I saw cannons. Gun-powder based fire-arms....in a Conan the Barbarian story. The willful ignorance it must take to publish something like that is mind-blowing. If that book is any indication of comic-quality in general, then the only surprising thing is that the industry hasn't already collapsed.
It’s really hard to feel sympathetic to these ideological idiots for feeling this way. Was rooting out folks you disagreed with that much more important than producing work that the general audience would like? Seriously how many times do we all need to say it: the industry is suffering from bad writers and agenda pushing in a big way. And these folks are now howling over his bad things were? Not realizing they’ve lost countless customers because they didn’t want them and younger folks are going to manga and other things. And finally while I know some folks dislike comicsgate; they have succeeded because they value their customers. You may not like some personalities individually but their message of respecting the customer should be ingrained. But I doubt these folks want this truth. They just want a scapegoat to blame their own problems at. To that, all I say is karma. You earned this predicament. Live with it.
Comicsgate is pretty impressive. They can sell 4 dollar comics for 30 dollars each, just because the customers know they care and they are unable to offer 4 dollar options due to harassment from the comic pros. Meanwhile the horrible comic pros can't even sell 4 dollar comics, because the content is horrible and they are toxic people.
I don't even look at the mainstream comics companies anymore. Do what I did, look to Indies & Manga. DC = Dying Company; Marvel = One Marvels at how they're still in business.
As far as I can see, these ideology warriors got what they wanted. They wanted to ruin pop culture, and did 🤷🏾♂️
CG doesn't sell thrown together 20-page pamphlets on toilet paper. They usually publish 64+ page graphic novels that have time and care put into them and actually tell stories with pure expertise with each outing. DC and Marvel put out monthly bowel movements in hopes their variant covers will save them.@@linusgustafsson2629
I used to read 8-12 comics a week, now it's only about 4 a month. Modern comics and creators have run the industry into the ground.
Getting new customers is difficult for any business, which is why it’s crucial you hang on to your existing customer base.
Problem has been their zealotry. As in they believe so hard in their religion of inclusion and diversity, that they think everyone else also believe in it, or are horrible people. Which means there is zero chance of failing when you do diversity comics, unless everyone else is a horrible person. Which is unlikely, so they get really confused when they realize that in fact the proof is that everyone is a horrible person. (Or rather their religion is based on wrong facts).
You would think that would be common sense…but it’s a foreign language to The Woke
That's an unsustainable model unfortunately.
Good, good let the gate flow through you Wes.
😂
“You can’t reach new people.”
The problem is the people they’re trying to reach aren’t the people who read comic books.
Eric July gave them a set of promises that genuine comic book fans would appreciate before he even made the comic. He’s not Ibram X Kendi, who only writes comics because he wants to subvert the expectations and change the culture.
Dear Wes I’ve been watching your videos for a good while now they have been very inspiring to me, this is my first comment on the channel not gonna lie, I’m commenting now cause I think your absolutely right, so I wanna tell you that I myself have been making my own comic with completely new characters and a story I came up with and recently posted it on webtoon and tapas about a week ago, it’s just a prologue and chapter 1 right now but plan to make more upcoming chapters and eventually make a physical copy and have it in stores
The comic book industry itself is a mess and is probably a lot more complicated mess in order to fix its mistakes which unfortnately this industry in itself just wants to blow itself up which is the last thing I want to happen at least in my opinion.
It's a sad case because something allot of people tend to ignore is that even without the politics allot of these books are just so bad and the business models are also bad. To the people reading do not forget to spread awareness for good indie creators and upcoming talent. It seems comicbooks are really a thing of the past time to move forward
I just cannot understand why american comic book creators just don't can learn with the mangakas of the Japan.They understand the needs of your audience and are supportive with them.Mangas are able to succeed in the areas where modern comic book fails. Mangas storylines are more compelling that any modern DC and Marvel books in nowadays and the artwork has a cinematic style in many titles. Mangas rules today.
I have never ever ever ever never ever bought a book with Mags Vasaggio on the cover. I will never. Idc what the title happens to be.
YOUNG RIPPA is single handedly saving comics
This comics industry collapse will be taught in business schools as a case study for the next decade.
I continue to support more of the well known classic comic book creators. It doesn't bother me if these are only limited series. There is just a handful of new comic book creators that I will actually support. I have enthusiastically supported both Eric July and Ethan Van Sciver's independently published comic book series.
I have no pity for the creators that kept their mouths shut and went along with the woke cult's march into irrelevancy.
It's likely that they were too scared to do anything ( I feel bad for them, tho).
That being said, you're right.
The realisation has been long coming for these woke creators.
I feel your frustration, Wes. It seems that everything we grew up lobing, and spending copious amounts of time, energy, and money on, has been sabotaged by these wokoso strokewads. Comics, Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR, games, etc. It is, quite feankly, exceedingly tiresome.
It isn't the "woke" that are fucking this up. It's CORPORATIONS. This is hyper capitalism at work. Rather than make a product that caters to the audience that made your company, you make content for the lowest common denominator, in an attempt to appeal to everyone. THAT'S when the "woke" shit comes in. It's all about being able to sell as many units as possible. The people in charge don't care about the legacy; they only care about padding their bank account.
The "woke" issue wouldn't be an issue at all if these companies figured out how to not butcher decades of history. I've got no problem with a character being gay or trans for example; but I DO CARE when they just up and make a character that has existed since I was a kid. They do this with EVERYTHING now, and that's the biggest issue, becuase it's all about trying to appeal to everyone and then it appeals to no one.
I have some good news on the comics front: recently picked up some Essential Marvel books and now have a complete run of Tomb of Dracula. It has dawned on me there's a whole bunch of comics I didn't get or read from the last six decades and I'm focusing on those. As for the future of comics, there's always Kid Venom. No seriously. Kid Venom. Let me get back to the blood sucking monster I want to read. Cheers!
Have you read the 3rd Dracula omnibus ?
Wes, you’re absolutely right and I agree with you 100%. There’s an old saying that says you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. These individuals who make the comic books have let the wolf in the door and now they can’t get rid of him. It’s like what I call the bud light syndrome. We can’t be failing because we’re number one and because we’re number one it doesn’t matter what we say or do they’ll still come to us. Well they’re finding out the hard way. They’re on the road to failure.
I blame BlackRock and Vangard. And all the mandates they have in place over Disney and WB. That's where it all comes from.
What they did to the industry is just, for lack of a better term, disgusting. I grew up on comics, and now, after nearly 4 decades, I couldn't be less excited, when something is announced. Left and right, heroes "deconstructed", given unlikeable, thinly veiled self inserts as sidekicks or replacements, this idea that gay is a compelling personality trait, or a qualification to being a hero, the complete focus of the writers' lives, struggles and insecurities, instead of telling good stories about characters we love, and showcasing why others should, in fact telling us why we should hate them, these are things they repeatedly did, and they wonder why we refuse to read any of it. It isn't out of any istaphobism. The books simply aren't fun to read, anymore, and these idiots made them that way, despite everyone showing them why it's wrong.
I exclusively read back issues, now. The most recent book I read was a Batman monthly, published in 1988. These books are WAY more fun, even having read them before. There was nothing "outdated" or offensive in this particular story. A man with a corrosive touch roaming Gotham, on a revenge mission, and a radio dj crashes his car, while high on coke. Batman is doing his best to sort it out. 1,000,000 times better than watching aged up Jon Kent protesting, or Fire and Ice bopping around Smallville and meeting the new, sassy sidekick.
Preach Wes!! 🎉
These folks stare directly at the problem yet seem to refuse to see it.
I've gone back and started reading X-Men from the beginning and im having a blast, sure theres the cheesy old school dialogue but they're entertaining.
09:30 the real issue is that NOBODY really likes their standard. Whatever audience they could have, it would be indie among indies.
That's ehy they depend on big publishers losing money for them.
I'd feel bad for the comic book industry, but I have no fucks to give since I was told the hobby I loved for over 20 years was "not for me" anymore.
Yep. We were called racist.
@@VicRattleHead28 That's just the tip of the iceberg.
The problem we have is a problem of talent, unfortunately every one of the mainstream comics pros just have no talent. They were handed the jobs and have no business sense and are just untalented. So when they fail it’s not their fault, it’s the fans.
They ruined Catwomen, Harly Quin, Ice Men, She-hulk, and many more...
Yup "know thou audience"
Any creative person that plans to make money needs to understand their audience.
Good rant, Wes! Keep it up!
Great video Wes. I agree with everything you brought up. It's a damn shame.
I considered trying to submit a pitch to dc about a non-canon reboot of the charleton heroes. When a major problem hit me.
Wes how do you submit a pitch to the comics industry?
Got to get a meeting with an editor.
@@Wes_From_TC thank you kindly.
Don’t bother- Self publish and file the serial numbers off the characters.
@@HammerheadStarcraftIt worked for Watchmen. Just remember to keep it from being just another version of Watchmen.
Why would you do that? lol Have you learned NOTHING?
If you archive a web page, it should get through the paywall.
Mags has sold plenty of books. Mags has just never sold a second book to anybody. Because nobody that has read one Mags book will buy another.
Meanwhile In Canada they give a Nazi a standing ovation on September 24 2023!
Details, as in more. Please.
@@changvasejarik62 zelensky came over to beg for money in canada. He brought a 98 year old world war 2 veteran with him. He fought with the SS against the russians and they used that as an attempt to try and fundraise. Really shows how braindead politicians are and if you say you are anti russia, you'll get everything.
@@changvasejarik62 Google "canadian parliament nazi"
@@changvasejarik62Quick summary: President of Ukraine visited Canada. Speaker of Parliament invited a "World War II veteran" assuming he was a war hero.
He turned out to be a German collaborator.
Speaker resigned.
@@Jayce_Alexander
Big Oops.
The decline of quality is the decline of humanity.
Has anyone run that above mentioned website through an archiving website?
I love and read all kinds of comics in all different genres from all different countries. I have done so since 1974. I think the big American comics problem is Cost. Everything is moving towards at least $4.99 for a 15 minute read of a chapter of a story. For that price, editors need to pull together teams that make EVERY issue a Fantastic read, not just okay. Companies need to look at every issue they put out and if they are not personally thrilled with it, or their test audience isn't, then the book shouldn't come out. World's Finest delivers every month and I can't wait for the next issue. Love That Texas Blood and it's current Enfield Massacre mini series. Captain America now seems to have a great setup so it is back on my pull list. And WOW! Just started in on The Magic Order trades. Great stuff! Comics are no longer new stand periodicals that must come out on a rigid schedule, forcing you to sometimes fill issues with reprints, inventory stories or just a weak next chapter. Editors, hold off and just put out the Great comics that are worth the $5. That's how you save and grow the industry.
Comics will break your heart, kid! -👑 Kirby
Yup, those PPP loans they used to pay non-profitable producers dried up. The government provided free money is gone for them.
Once again, sales matter.
I'll say this, these heads and the lions share of people working under them who fallow this new way of life all but poison every industry they touch.
And comics are no exception. The only solution at this point is to fire them all and hire back people who have a passion for telling good quality stories again.
Until such a time take care and happy ready those back issues.
Comics industry is making itself near irrelevant despite customers being hungry for more good stories than ever before, as evident in manga sales.
Isnt weird that neither Wolverine (LOGAN) or Gambit haven't been full-time members of a FLAGSHIP X-Men team book in years?
X-Men is almost a dead brand at this point.
2 straight white males that not take joy on be cucks like Cyclops, i wonder why.
I’ve stopped buying mainstream comics.
I have switched to manga and collecting the odd comic if it’s signed and at the right price.
Eric July was mentioned, so obligatory bunnies in the chat
🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰🐰
Get this man a panel at all the conventions and repeat!!!!
Wes, I love it when you rant! If only people would listen to those who are passionate.
It has to collapse in order for it to be rebuilt. The cancerous parts have to be removed. And I’m not without some sympathy. It’s unfortunate for people to be evicted from their homes. But, this is one of those instances where it could have been avoided if the people were aware enough that they were drilling holes into their own ships.
I recently had to do some wood repairs to my deck. Last year I discovered a small amount or rot in a piece of 16’ decking. I thought I could save the piece by removing the rotted section, treating and then patching the area with all weather filler. I thought I could save it. Fast forward less than a year later the filler didn’t work. The rot was too deep. So I had to amputate and replace the board.
The comic book industry is a the point where the rot is too deep, and it’s time to amputate the dead wood.
This should have been filmed in black & white Wes, this was a Razorfist level rant!
Its too late
The industry has bee destroyed by pride
Litterally
They have too much pride to admit they are wrong and the end result is that characters like eric july and ya boi zack among others entered the space they left wide open
But… They keep telling us that comic sales are hitting record highs and everything is sunshine and roses. 🤣
I absolutely hate what these untalented wastes of human flesh have done to the industry, but I’m definitely enjoying the schadenfreude. 😇
Okay, I need someone to explain to me what Rockstar and Sockboy is.
Look up various video reviews of the comic. I think it was another super g@y trash comic that Maggs or another member of the alphabet crowd got published.
Yeah I get hit up all the time because I consult other comic book creators on marketing and selling their work. It tell them it's work but you get the fruits of haveing your work supported when you reach out and engage with what will be your audience. However when working with ComicBook Publishers there is always some issue and they are all dumb issue. They want people coming to them but don't do anything to build trust with an audience they keep disappointing.
They are struggling because they keep trying to force their garbage stories on the fandom when we don't want their vanity pieces. We want great action, character development, drama, and in my case at least, respect of the previously established canon.
2:53 that boom was the result of people fiending for stories after Geppi decided he didn’t feel like distributing comics anymore. Once everything opened back up we had many an indie title that were just trying to be good stories get the shine they deserved. The uppity cape readers finally broke out of their safety bubble and tried a comic without the X-Men or Supes. There is representation in SiKtC but it was not the only thing the comic talked about. It focused on being a solid horror story and the readers paid the title back by telling all their friends, forcing that thing into over 8 printings.
Mic drop video. From well said to Nuff said. Thinking Critical dropping facts.
Prior to 5 years ago, I spent no less than $1,000 a year on comics...often more. Now I won't spend one dime on a comic book.
The problem is trying to reach new readers while actively alienating their existing base. Both can be done simultaneously, but agendas and shit.
I know Perch is not convinced, but I still believe publishers are too distracted by the TPB buys by libraries in North America. It's a 'customer base' that is separate from the customer base, but it is a solid number versus the comic shop estimates. 😮
That's a sector that's not going to last either, nobody I know has been to a library in years. Once financial cuts start to happen, libraries will stop buying and there goes that market too.
I'm with many others here and don't feel bad at all that these jerks may be without a home but what did they expect? Wasn't anyone at Marvel or DC not looking at the numbers or anything, and think that different direction is needed? Didn't anyone thought about sending out memo telling all their writers/artists to not insult their customers? Or instead of finding that elusive new audience, keep the old one happy? Make good stories and good art will appeal to everyone, not just elusive "new" audience. But instead of running company, they let their writers and artists live in fantasy land and write/draw whatever they want.
video comics on UA-cam is the future.
Wes is Angry, His fans like him when he's angry
(pros not so much)
I've been reading for near 20 years. My pull list has been cancelled for 5 years. It came back for HoXPoX - then died. I don't wanto read stories about the letters crowd, I want superhero books!
My list is re opened. For 1 book. Transformers by DJW.
Tess Fowler, homeless? couldn't have happened to a better person
Awesome work mate
Before they go to search for new audience, the need to keep their already existent audience.
A Wes rant is the best rant.
I guess the pharmaceuticals got more expensive
I can say I don't trust anyone. Tell me what I want to hear and then pivot to woke garbage. 😮
Mags? I know a brain but no mags.
Man i can't believe the spin off comic about the character that most people don't like from a show thats already showing its age wasnt enough to make this the year of Mags
Hope they didnt run out and buy another guitar with the oni cash advance 🤣
Spider Man: Reign goes viral off a random Tic Tok.
Nuff said
We love you Wes!
I used to be a Thor mark or Whale.
I can not tolerate or stand AL Ewing. That being said, I have yet to spend any money on Thor thus far because of Ewing.
After Ole AL turned Starlord Bisexual, I signed a blood oath to never ever spend a penny on anything with AL Ewing on the book. I will not buy Thor until he is off the title. Idc if ALEX ROSS is on Cover As or not.
Your room is really clean.
Thanks 👊
Why should anyone support these people and these companies, given the price of monthly comics? I see folks like Mark T. Sneed publishing stories on Amazon about how things might be with more superpowered Black characters. (Remember those days when the diversity was tailored to the story?) Saw him at a recent con, and he's decent guy who likes comic books and readers.
If your comic book doesn't sell, you may want to stop biting the hand that feeds you.... or get another career.
Got sick of turning the page and finding out I'm actually the villain of this comic book. The major problems and the same problems in the shows and movies by basically every company. Each industry also has their specific issues but it's wokeness and what comes with that
I buy the classics mostly in OMNIBUS form or hardcover printings from DC, Marvel and others.
The new tittles from mainstream giants are mostly bad or boring and by adding so much propaganda where the story dies or was never there makes it pointless to even read the first page. People want good art, stories and a run away from reality.
I recommend European tittles old and new from such countries like Belgium, France, Italy or Spain. Those that cover science-fiction, fantasy and/or humour would suprise you.
Instead of spending their time trying to tear down each other down they should have been trying to keep their industry going. But they buried their heads in the sand and doubled down on their bad behaviors. You reap what you sow.
I think this same fallout is going to happen to Disney soon due to their own decisions. Flooding their staffs with inexperienced agenda driven writers who have no care or interest in writing good stories has damaged both films and comics. The trust toward publishers and film companies to at least be entertaining is gone. The most important thing about storytelling is to entertain to be engaging, then educate. It's not to lecture and drone, nor tear down the past. As much as people go on about the 50's being a better time, for people of my minority, well we were segregated. So not that good or fair, or as open to us and many others. Telling a badly created story with some representation damages the cause. If anything it brings out more resentment and dislike of those stories, and who those stories are trying to represent. If anything it's just plain lazy. The industry needs to realize they need quality work to attract readers and viewers. Many thanks Wes.
I don't know what minortiy you are but in all likely hood what happned in the 50s could of been for the best. No hate but things was better back than. just saying. if we could have acoided what happened to comics by doing what wer were doing in the 50s, which was a golden time for comics as compared to today maybe we should have kept things the way they where. dont get mad at me
Manga seems to be doing just fine.