Harley Timken Bearing Upgrade Conversion PART 2 | Performance Harley | Kevin Baxter | Pro Twin
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- Опубліковано 6 січ 2021
- PART 2 - What is a Harley Timken Bearing Upgrade. Timken Bearing Conversion for your Performance Harley. Here, I explain Harley Flywheel problems, Harley Davidson crank bearings, what a Timken Bearing Upgrade is and why you should consider a Timken Conversion for your Harley Davidson. Also, you will learn how to do a Timken Upgrade in your Twin Cam or M8 Harley using tools from Jims Machine and the Jims Timken Bearing Sleeve. I found this video, as well as the cylinder head videos, tough. Sometimes it's hard to explain laws of physics, complex engine dynamics, forces, and load in it's simplest terms. So...bear with me..LOL
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These overhead formats are great. Whoever disliked this video rides a moped
TO THIER CREDIT, A MOPED WITH THE TIMKEN CONVERSION.
But at least that Moped rider: a) does Not have an eye-watering amount to pay for his or her vehicle & improvements (as I did attempting to duplicate my GoldWing features on a 2019 FLHRXS/Road King Special) @$536/month; and, 2) the Moped’s oil pump engineering actually worked properly. How many Milwaukee Eight 114 oil transfer setups did the MoCo devise? Let’s ask Doc Harley at Low Country H-D outside Charleston, SC. (Or Kevin’s actual technicians.)
Short and sweet: EXCELLENT!
Really enjoying the vids. Keep up the good work. 😊👍
Great information, love your work.
Thanks Kevin for another great video, I look forward the next one.
Kind regards from the UK.
excellent video Kevin
Outstanding series
Awesome!!!
I just can not wait to meet you and shake you hand! You have taught me so many things that I need to know.
Love you man
great job Kevin- thank you for making these. I'm STILL perplexed as to why these things don't come stock with this setup. Anyway- nice job; ride safe everybody.
cost, production rate, etc. Shame... Thank you sir! I dig the screenname.
Thx so much Kevin!!!!
If no one has suggested it. I hone a set of beaerings to slip fit for checking end play. Learned it for shiming pinion shafts on GM rear ends.
Kevin another great video thanks.
Thanks 👍
Brilliant!
Awesome man
Thanks!
You are the best most conciencious mechanic
So Good!
Another great video. I missed the live feed again, but did enjoy it on the replay. Thanks Kevin.
Glad you enjoyed it
I'm going to take your suggestion once the series over I'm going to watch him back to back it is so interesting to watch keep it up I really like the headset really getting into it
Please do!
"Another" mod that's going on my rebuild list.
Thanks for all you do for us. The camera angle is perfect, It makes me feel like lm right there.
Glad you enjoy it! Thank you Ken!!!
I thought at one point that one of the studs was going to take his eye 😂
How would one press the outer race off the shaft (in the case end play adjustment was needed) without destroying the bearing? I don't see a way that it could be done without passing the press load through the rollers, which would essentially kill that bearing.
i would 1st like to say, you have the best harley vids on youtube....my question is if endplay needed adjusted, and you press flywheels out, doesn't that damage the outer bearing ? thanks and keep up the great work
I want to do cams on tc88 06 cannot wait for the videos on that
Biggest thing for me is push rod adjustment and timing of them where cams need to be set for adjustment
the shop doing my Big bore T.C. I'm now having it bored and stroked. the shop is doing this process on my motor. then installing a balanced S&S crank. I heard it run yesterday, it sounded like a swiss watch😘
any possible way you could do and example video of having to change the shim and what tools need to remove the bearing and assembly ? ps love your vids so informative and explanation of "cause and effect" to help understand more how and why things fail and can be improved cheers
Wow!!! Oustanding...
Would love to do this to my M8 RG.
Hey. Great videos and explanations. Any chance of a tool and pt# breakdown? I'm planning on tackling this exact upgrade this fall and want to gather all the necessary components (tools and parts)
Hi Kevin, just watched both episodes of timkin install. Nice install. Still looking for a shot of the right side. Trying to figure out where the sump location in relation to the oil pump. It looks like the pump is higher than the bottom of the sump?
Hi Kevin, Great job showing this conversion. Question: Even though the crank end-play is perfect, how do you know the connecting rods will end up in the exact middle of the cylinder bore? Or is that even a concern?
Great videos Kevin.My only question is (this special tool fits in M8 to?)
I asked this before but here goes. Did Harley Davidson make any changes to how the flywheel was put together for the 110 CU.IN engine? Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
Enjoyed Ep#1 & 2 Kevin! Thanks! Buddy asked why an owner would ask to have all this work done and the associated costs, rather than dropping in a factory crate engine. Is there a warranty difference or do people simply feel the after market does better work than The Motor Company? Wish you all well for 2021 & beyond! From 🇨🇦
Hi Kevin, I really enjoyed your videos on this topic. I appreciate you did the video a long while ago now but how did you take an educated guess on the spacer thickness and get the end play bang on the money? Do you remember the thickness?
Keep up the good work, keep the content coming!
Best regards.
Like the way you think when building a motor.
I tried Timken flywheel 1way bearing on 2015 street 750.
Came up empty but did find china 1 on ebay cheap.
She runs better than new ... starts n stops like should without making banging noises
Highly respect your work. My only question is, is there a dollar advantage between this work & installing a 124 S&S engine?
Your channel is excellent. I really wish you would build yourself a nice thick plexiglass shield in front of your press. I set mine up so it slides up and down on tracks, and i do you have marks in it showing where I got protected from getting hit by pieces of metal and other particles.
Thank you sir...and i sincerely appreciate your concern. i will look into that. safe is better than sorry.
Is there a video that shows assembly of these cases ,this model,without timken upgrade , couldn’t find one. Looks like you just drop the crank in and bolt the the 2 halves together . Thanks
1) Is not the Timken bearing set pre-fitted with the correct spacer to begin with? But the end play does, in fact, need to be confirmed and corrected if it is not within specs.
2) How was the crank supported to press the outer bearing into place? Jim's makes an installer that uses the sprocket shaft as support to screw press in the bearing. Can be done on the bench....
....RooDog....
Nice work. One question, Lang Tools make a tool to set end play without taking a chance to install flywheel and having to remove if off. I'm sure you are aware...Bravo, love your vids
If you make that crank bearing nested in steel, was there some "give" that will now be transferred to other parts absent any give the crank bearings provided?
What was the cutoff for the tapered bearings? I've heard it said that some early 03 model bikes / motors still had the tapered bearing. I have an 03 Road Glide and I've been in that side twice to replace compensator spring packs. Forgot to look both times (insert head slap here). FWIW: Crank runout was .002 on the cam side
Kevin, what size spacer was that?
Hello!! is this lateration indicated for twin cam 96 B?
What is the pn of the tool?
thankfu
Did you press the first bearing flat against the flywheel
Missed the live feed but caught the videos today. Always need a little luck with precision like that. Looks like you had the lucky charms mascot on your shoulder today. I’ve seen engines come apart and go back together a dozen times before it ended up where they needed to be. Like anything else luck sometimes comes with experienced educated guesswork. Great stuff. Keep the videos coming. I want to see the end result.
yep...nailed it this time. the next time...who knows. Lol.
Awesome video and great information. Have you ever used liquid nitrogen to shrink press fit bushings?
Do it all the time...if going into aluminum, i certainly would have. but...into tool steel...not really an issue in this application.
I need to get me a press like that..
Hi Kevin, love your videos! I have a 2003 Fat Boy absolutely stock. Do I need to worry about the primary side bearing?
Stock...most likely nothing at all to worry about. The cranks in 03 were pretty good...that saves the bearing. Thank you!
Interesting procedure..I would've thought one would need to machine the case to accept the new Timken race..
If no case damage, the JIMS sleeve makes it possible without case machining other than screw holes.
Hey kevin i have a ?? im starting my 96ci to 107 build. the case is ready to go with my S&S Crank after talking to the S&S tech they told me that the timken bearing is not needed should i do it any way? Plus i want to do gear driven cams but every one is telling me that there noisey vs chain.
No worries the heavy assembly lube has taken up some of the end play travel?
no sir. if we were going gear drive cam backlash, certainly would do dry. With this...has no effect ive ever measured...have tried both ways.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks, love the series... Im like yourself for accuracy...started doing my own work after a builder here calls me like 10pm one night saying " I just fired up your bike and I think I bent a valve ".. Will follow the rest of your series...Im currently searching for a Shovel project for my young son to start riding.
@@KevinBaxter Did the Timken conversion and case deck machining while Darkhorse was doing the crank...I believe they line bore indicated of the pinion side .
Is there a reason you couldn’t assembly the two bearings and spacer on a threaded dummy shaft in the case and check free play before you pressed it on the crank? That way you could take it apart easily and adjust shims until you got it where you wanted. Just curious
no reason really. Just a personal preference thing. As you know, those can be bought, or made even with old sprocket shafts. I made one that is welded to a large tblock that can be squeezed in a vise. these sleeves are so precise, most of the time, it's on the money. just have to find the perfect spacer out of a bag of spacers. LOL
Fun little fact, the bearing retaining compound supplied with the kit is made my loctite. Once it has fully set up it won’t release until 350°F. So keep that in mind when using it.
i have one loctite formulation, only available to machine shops...wont release until 1000 deg estimated. Crazy stuff. Permanent really.
@@KevinBaxter lol yeah I’d say that’s permanent.
If I wanted Pro Twin to build and blueprint my 88ci, adding gear driven cams, Tipcon bearings and that well built crank with the properly built connecting rods... But keep the engine as close to stock as possible, (Just a street bike, not a monster track bike), what would be the ballpark of the cost?
I wonder what I'd be looking at, instead of looking for another bike?
too many variables to quote off a post. reach out to me by email or call and i'll be glad to walk thru it with you.
Hey Kevin it goes without saying accuracy is your thing. Having said that I have seen another professional on the tube who did the same install procedure but made note that using assembly lube when setting endplay would make finding true endplay impossible. He did his dry. Your thoughts?
Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason. I wont argue his method, its not wrong, but I will say....i have tested this myself. In my own experience, I have installed dry and checked end play, then repeated with assembly lube...found no measurable difference as read on .0005 indicator. keep in mind...even the viscosity of the assembly lube...be it paste, grease, or oil....that can make a difference too. There are other ways to do this anyway...with a dummy sprocket shaft, etc.
Obviously there are many variables that could be involved but I am curious how much a job like this costs? I hav an '07 that I bought used in very good condition for a ridiculously low price. It has 61k miles on it. I would much rather put the money into this bike and know I have a reliable motor good to go for a very long time, vs. a newer bike that Would cost a lot more.
Kevin are you located in Georgia
Kev
How did you choose your spacer prior to fitment? What did you measure and how did you decide on that size spacer?
Great video BTW
great question. these sleeves are precision ground. I have done MANY MANY of these. I know most likely, i will need to choose two or three spacers within a .0015 range. I measure the thickness. With this one, it was good with the first choice.
Kinda makes me nervous knowing the screws are inside the crankcase even with locktite.
So is a converted case actually "better" or "stronger" than a pre 03 stock tapered bearing case? Seems like it would be with the steel insert.
I'd say 'yeah.' The steel insert, instead of the cast aluminum... And the insert takes the bearing load off the case. The case would just hold the insert in place, as seen here.
great question...and one i cant give an answer to with certainty. I have repaired cases that spun timken races in alum cases...so....yes. Id have to say it is.
👍😎
Is it OK to use assembly lube instead Goodson's PFL-200? They don't ship it overseas :(
BTW thank's for great video.
What type of assembly lube do you use that can be pumped out of an oil can... looks to thin to be torco?
Actually, that is Torco! Good call. Great stuff...great oil can!
@@KevinBaxter ok. Thank you. Another good video. I appreciate your attention to detail and seriousness to your work. Keep it up!
thank you sir!
Recommend doing a Timken bearing install on a stock 96 ? ( 2009 Softail) Mostly for longevity. I can be kinda anal about my engines. Considered having it tore down reassembled to stock specs aka Blue Printed. Has Screaming A/C, 3" Cycle shacks and Xieds. Thanks
We have 3 M8s in the shop right now for that very thing. Blueprint it but not doing major performance upgrades.
@@KevinBaxter . Expect any noticeable power improvements other than a peace of mind?
Forgive me. But I have to ask: WHY wouldn't HD build their engines with this tech?? The reason I'm watching Kevin's channel is that I'm a life long motorcyclist, I'm 55 and I've been riding pretty much every day since I was 18. 20k miles on a "83 Honda 750 Shadow, 10k miles on a '84 Honda Goldwing. My current bike is a 1999 Triumph Trophy 1200. I REALLY want to try a HD, but dang... if they cant make them THIS quality from the factory, what's the point?
Not to mention, their bikes are seriously expensive.
i know when you press # 2 bearing your pressing on the inner race of it , if spacing is wrong now you press on the crank witch in turn put's load on # 2 rollers not the race , still use that bearing or new bearing when going back togeather ? , i know , i know , i'm fussy .
nothing wrong with fussy. I do not recall the exact data, but a few years ago i had this conversation with a technical person from Timken. It was dependent on the pressures of course...i do not recall the range of pressure he gave me that it would be acceptable to do as long as the bearing hadnt been in use, but it was not even close to the pressure required to remove/install in this application.
@@KevinBaxter thank you sr....great videos , we are never to old to learn
I have a question. I do precision work for a living, and looking at that press, I am really curious how it level within a single thou, let alone 1 ten. ?? Even lathes aren’t within that tolerance and they have precision adjustments to set them. Right up til there I was ok, but a press, setting on a concrete floor, with zero shims, and the table just sits on steel rods...pretty implausible to say the least. That really raises more questions than it answers.
@Mod Zozer I understand that, I’m not the one that said within a ten and the press was right there, I’m the one saying BS.
i believe i said square to .010. not a tenth. The sleeve is precision ground to a tenth. a tenth is not possible on any press that I've seen...nor would it be necessary with this type of press work. to answer your question though....im using guided press tools that ensure race and sleeve is square to the case. in addition to that, i make my own anvils for the ram. after every few uses, i will compare the press tools used for this operation, as well as others, against the anvil then file if necessary. it's checked at 0 pressure, then i run it up to final pressure and check for square from the anvil to the press tool just to verify it's holding. Getting a 2" anvil square to .010 is not that difficult.
@@KevinBaxter no you said “ to a tenth of a thou”. That is one ten thousandth. Then you said your press was “ right there” too.
We all misspeak.
No sir. I did not in the context you heard it. I just reviewed the video...even the YT auto closed captioning picked it up exactly how i said it which was: "you got to remember this you know this piece is precision ground and machined to within a tenth of a thou so you want to make sure your press is within ten thous of level and i know this press is spot on the money". Sometimes, we all mis-hear.
@@KevinBaxter you’re correct, I reviewed and I did mis hear the second part, I do apologize.
Is there a spacer between the two bearing races?
Also, my question. The original assembly comes with a cup spacer, is it replaced by an integrated spacer in the sleeve housing?
You never hear about Japanese bikes needing new bearings, maybe because everyone except Harley uses bolted cranks not press fit
I have a Japanese motorcycle. It has a 1 piece forged crankshaft. Engine bearings are similar to an automobile.
You don't think 2 1/2 thousand is a little tight?
No sir...actually...it can go a little tighter.
Why didn't you leave metal shavings? :-D
Ya, HD does.
Most Timken bearings are made in china.
Incorrect. Although there is a facility in China, among various other international locations, the majority of Timken bearings are produced SC, NC, and Ohio.
Hey Kevin, another great video. Can i ask why you don't use something like the LANG tool for setting the end play on the Timken lefty set up, to save having to keep assembling & disassembling, if you don't hit it bang on first time? Can i also ask what make your groovy little assembly lube can is? Cheers dude, excellent as always.
If it's a stock case, I do because several test fits aren't uncommon. With this, The sleeve is precision ground. Its spot on most of the time. Its just the way I do these...
@@KevinBaxter Absolutely awesome video you're very good at explaining what needs to be done and now I see what's wrong with mine I have a 2015 road King thank you much have a good day